In Spite of...

[Yasgur's Farm]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

[BidsJr]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

I'm not a JP hater but how long till the RJ comparisons come.....'

3....2.....1.....

[Mr. Miyagi]

3....2.....1.....

Flutie!

[PECKERWOOD]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

I wasnt completely satisfied with JP's performance yesterday afternoon, but he did manage the game effectively. I remember making a huge post about resiliency. JP showed that.. After he was getting booed by his own fans ( me included.. ) he threw a bomb to Lee Evans. I respect that. He still deserves the whole season in my book, and if he continues to not lose the football game, next season also.

[Drive 4 Five]

Excellent point DRAZ. It is so difficult not to get frustrated with some of the posts you see here, even after a win where your QB didn't turn the ball over, and despite struggling for most of the game, being hit hard and often, manages to put his team back into the lead in the 4th Qtr. on an impressive throw to Evans with pressure in his face (as usual). But for the multitudes here, I guess it just isn't good enough.

[OpIv37]

I wasnt completely satisfied with JP's performance yesterday afternoon, but he did manage the game effectively. I remember making a huge post about resiliency. JP showed that.. After he was getting booed by his own fans ( me included.. ) he threw a bomb to Lee Evans. I respect that. He still deserves the whole season in my book, and if he continues to not lose the football game, next season also.

Excellent point DRAZ. It is so difficult not to get frustrated with some of the posts you see here, even after a win where your QB didn't turn the ball over, and despite struggling for most of the game, being hit hard and often, manages to put his team back into the lead in the 4th Qtr. on an impressive throw to Evans with pressure in his face (as usual). But for the multitudes here, I guess it just isn't good enough.

I don't know what game you 2 were watching but JP UNDERTHREW that TD pass to Evans. The only reason it worked is because the coverage was so blown that Evans was able to slow down for the ball and still make the TD. Everyone is giving JP so much credit for what was a huge defensive mistake.

Also, draz is missing the point. Who cares how JP's stats measure up to the rest of the league? The reason I'm concerned about him is because he doesn't help us win games and he still makes a lot of the same mistakes he made last year. This team isn't good enough for the "manage the game" QB.

The question we're trying to answer is "Is JP the QB of the future for the Buffalo Bills?" Statistical comparisons alone aren't going to answer that question.

[PECKERWOOD]

I don't know what game you 2 were watching but JP UNDERTHREW that TD pass to Evans. The only reason it worked is because the coverage was so blown that Evans was able to slow down for the ball and still make the TD. Everyone is giving JP so much credit for what was a huge defensive mistake.

Also, draz is missing the point. Who cares how JP's stats measure up to the rest of the league? The reason I'm concerned about him is because he doesn't help us win games and he still makes a lot of the same mistakes he made last year. This team isn't good enough for the "manage the game" QB.

The question we're trying to answer is "Is JP the QB of the future for the Buffalo Bills?" Statistical comparisons alone aren't going to answer that question.

There is no question it was underthrown, but he was hit while throwing the football!! That is a good sign, he threw the football and made the play, knowing damn well he was going to get hit very hard!

[ICE74129]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

Oh and one more thing...He has a better record than at least 9 other starting QB's in this league this year....including Ben Rothlesburger.

[Wraith]

I don't know what game you 2 were watching but JP UNDERTHREW that TD pass to Evans. The only reason it worked is because the coverage was so blown that Evans was able to slow down for the ball and still make the TD. Everyone is giving JP so much credit for what was a huge defensive mistake.

Also, draz is missing the point. Who cares how JP's stats measure up to the rest of the league? The reason I'm concerned about him is because he doesn't help us win games and he still makes a lot of the same mistakes he made last year. This team isn't good enough for the "manage the game" QB.

The question we're trying to answer is "Is JP the QB of the future for the Buffalo Bills?" Statistical comparisons alone aren't going to answer that question.

Evans caught the ball on the four yard line. In order to hit Evans in stride Losman would have needed to throw the ball out the back of the endzone. Evans was wide open, Losman did the smart thing: Not trying to get too cute when the receiver is 15 yards from the nearest DB and you've got a defensive lineman bearing down on you. Lay the ball out there, give your receiver the chance to make the play, do not over throw him or throw it out of bounds, and get the ball out of your hands before you get hit.

The "under thrown" argument on this play is so bogus it's not even funny. Gee, Favre's TD pass to Drive was kind of weak because if the linebacker had stepped into the throwing lane and disrupted the quick slant. Oh wait, there was no linebacker. Gee, Losman's TD pass to Evans was pretty bad because if there was a defensive back in range he might have been able to break up the play. Oh wait, there was no defensive back.

Yeah, the ball was slightly under thrown. And yeah, he was hit in the chest during his throwing motion. And oh yeah, Losman threw the ball 40 yards in the air off his back foot while getting leveled. The fact that people here can find fault with the one brilliant positive from the QB all day is incredible, and simply assinine.

[Bling]

A horrible O-line, JP rates the following among NFL starters...

1415 passing yards - 21st - 11 starters ahave thrown for less.
61.3% completion average - 22nd - 10 starters have a lower average.
80.2 passer rating - 18th - 14 starters have a lower rating.
7 touchdowns - 22nd - 10 starters have thrown fewer.
6 interceptions - 11th - 21 starters have thrown more.

He's accomplished all this in spite of...
Only 16 career starts.
3 QB's being sacked more times.
31 QB's having more attempts or more attempts per game.

Can you continue to say he's not an NFL starting QB when there are consistantly 10, 11, 21 other NFL starters behind him in every category?

How about that for a taste of reallity?

Just out of curiousity. Do you consider that Miami has had 2 starters this year? Dallas has had 2? Jacksonville has had 2? Oakland has had 2? Tennessee has had 2? If you combine Harrington and Culpepper's yards together into one player, you have 10 starters with less than JP. I can't tell you Dallas, Jax, Oakland, Tenn, etc., but that is a big variable.


That's why I always analyze players on how well they throw, do they answer when other team's score on them, how much of a leader they are, and which one always puts his team in the best chance to win.


Now if you want to analyze his progress, you can compare him to Eli Manning, Ben Roeth and Phil Rivers. They've all had the same amount of years in the league, and Phil has had less starts.

[Pinkerton Security]

Just out of curiousity. Do you consider that Miami has had 2 starters this year? Dallas has had 2? Jacksonville has had 2? Oakland has had 2? Tennessee has had 2? If you combine Harrington and Culpepper's yards together into one player, you have 10 starters with less than JP. I can't tell you Dallas, Jax, Oakland, Tenn, etc., but that is a big variable.


That's why I always analyze players on how well they throw, do they answer when other team's score on them, how much of a leader they are, and which one always puts his team in the best chance to win.


Now if you want to analyze his progress, you can compare him to Eli Manning, Ben Roeth and Phil Rivers. They've all had the same amount of years in the league, and Phil has had less starts.

I partly agree, but in order to compare his progress to that of those other QB's, you need to compare the situations. Eli Manning has arguably the best RB in the NFL, as does Rivers, and Parker is no sloutch in Pburgh. Also, compare the tight ends on each team....How does Royal stack up against studs Shockey, Gates, and a very capable Heath Miller? And lets now talk coaching....how does Dicky-poo compare to Cowher, Coughlin and Schottenheimer.....




does it now seem fair to compare JP to those QB's? not to mention the defenses of these other teams can actually stop the run once in a while...


JP has few weapons, and we all know it. and when coaches are coming in and out in what is in essense the middle-end of his "first season"....its like apples and oranges



as far as leadership and other intangibles, i do agree he doesnt have them...yet. will he improve them? i hope so. im optimistic enough about JP's abilities and pessimistic enough about the overall talent of our team to sit back and wait, at least for this year.

[OpIv37]

Evans caught the ball on the four yard line. In order to hit Evans in stride Losman would have needed to throw the ball out the back of the endzone. Evans was wide open, Losman did the smart thing: Not trying to get too cute when the receiver is 15 yards from the nearest DB and you've got a defensive lineman bearing down on you. Lay the ball out there, give your receiver the chance to make the play, do not over throw him or throw it out of bounds, and get the ball out of your hands before you get hit.

The "under thrown" argument on this play is so bogus it's not even funny. Gee, Favre's TD pass to Drive was kind of weak because if the linebacker had stepped into the throwing lane and disrupted the quick slant. Oh wait, there was no linebacker. Gee, Losman's TD pass to Evans was pretty bad because if there was a defensive back in range he might have been able to break up the play. Oh wait, there was no defensive back.

Yeah, the ball was slightly under thrown. And yeah, he was hit in the chest during his throwing motion. And oh yeah, Losman threw the ball 40 yards in the air off his back foot while getting leveled. The fact that people here can find fault with the one brilliant positive from the QB all day is incredible, and simply assinine.

This post is ridiculous.

First, I didn't realize Evans is 12 feet tall and faster than a cheetah, because that's what it would take for two strides to get him from the 4 through the back of the endzone in split-second difference between an underthrown ball and a ball that hit him in stride.

Second, there was another play where Evans had his man beat (although not as bad as on this play), Losman underthrew the ball and the defender was able to make a play on it. If there was a defender anywhere within 5 yards of Evans on that play, it would have been broken up. The ONLY reason JP got away with that pass was because GB was confused and completely blew the coverage.

So, if you want to find ridiculous reasons to give JP credit for GB's mistake, go right ahead. You're only fooling yourself. If this is Losman's "brilliant positive", we're in deep ****.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Mike Vick is 21st in passer rating. JP better than him?

[Wraith]

This post is ridiculous.

First, I didn't realize Evans is 12 feet tall and faster than a cheetah, because that's what it would take for two strides to get him from the 4 through the back of the endzone in split-second difference between an underthrown ball and a ball that hit him in stride.

Second, there was another play where Evans had his man beat (although not as bad as on this play), Losman underthrew the ball and the defender was able to make a play on it. If there was a defender anywhere within 5 yards of Evans on that play, it would have been broken up. The ONLY reason JP got away with that pass was because GB was confused and completely blew the coverage.

So, if you want to find ridiculous reasons to give JP credit for GB's mistake, go right ahead. You're only fooling yourself. If this is Losman's "brilliant positive", we're in deep ****.

This play happened DIRECTLY in front of me yesterday. The defender made up about 15 to 20 yards while the ball was in the air, so why do you find it so difficult that Evans could've also? Remember, he was at an almost complete stop. Why risk hitting the receiver in stride in the rear half of the end zone (at best) on a pretty pass when lobbing it up at the goal line would work just fine?

The other play you refer to is a totally different set of circumstances. It was a bad throw, Losman double clutched, Evans was less open and there was a safety coming over the top. It was a bad throw and not the greatest effort from the receiver. What does that have to do with the touch down?

[OpIv37]

This play happened DIRECTLY in front of me yesterday. The defender made up about 15 to 20 yards while the ball was in the air, so why do you find it so difficult that Evans could've also? Remember, he was at an almost complete stop. Why risk hitting the receiver in stride in the rear half of the end zone (at best) on a pretty pass when lobbing it up at the goal line would work just fine?

The other play you refer to is a totally different set of circumstances. It was a bad throw, Losman double clutched, Evans was less open and there was a safety coming over the top. It was a bad throw and not the greatest effort from the receiver. What does that have to do with the touch down?

You answered your own question

The defender made up about 15 to 20 yards while the ball was in the air,

if the defender was within 15 to 20 yards of Evans like he was SUPPOSED to be, he would have had a lot less space to make up and would have knocked that ball away when Evans slowed down (just like on the other play I described). Solution: don't make your receivers slow down.

We got away with it this time because the defender was so far out of position. But 99 times out of 100 an NFL CB will be close enough to make a play on the ball in that situation.

The only reason Losman gets props on that play is for recognizing the blown coverage and knowing that he could safely throw it to that spot even if he couldn't step into his throw (assuming that he DID know- if he didn't that was an incredibly stupid play, but we'll never know for sure).

[justasportsfan]

This post is ridiculous.

First, I didn't realize Evans is 12 feet tall and faster than a cheetah, because that's what it would take for two strides to get him from the 4 through the back of the endzone in split-second difference between an underthrown ball and a ball that hit him in stride.

Second, there was another play where Evans had his man beat (although not as bad as on this play), Losman underthrew the ball and the defender was able to make a play on it. If there was a defender anywhere within 5 yards of Evans on that play, it would have been broken up. The ONLY reason JP got away with that pass was because GB was confused and completely blew the coverage.

So, if you want to find ridiculous reasons to give JP credit for GB's mistake, go right ahead. You're only fooling yourself. If this is Losman's "brilliant positive", we're in deep ****.

Great, we score a TD and people have a problem about how we scored. I don't give a rats ass about anything but the result.

[Wraith]

You answered your own question



if the defender was within 15 to 20 yards of Evans like he was SUPPOSED to be, he would have had a lot less space to make up and would have knocked that ball away when Evans slowed down (just like on the other play I described). Solution: don't make your receivers slow down.

We got away with it this time because the defender was so far out of position. But 99 times out of 100 an NFL CB will be close enough to make a play on the ball in that situation.

Yeah that argument would work fine if there was a defender. But as I said in my first post that you called ridiculous:

There was NO defender in that zone.

Your proposed solution is to a problem that did not exist. The nearest defender, despite making up ground, did not get within 5 yards of the receiver and Evans coasted easily the last two steps.

[OpIv37]

Yeah that argument would work fine if there was a defender. But as I said in my first post that you called ridiculous:

There was NO defender in that zone.

Your proposed solution is to a problem that did not exist. The nearest defender, despite making up ground, did not get within 5 yards of the receiver and Evans coasted easily the last two steps.

to a problem that didn't exist on that particular play, but does most of the time. JP threw a bad pass and he got lucky.

[OpIv37]

Great, we score a TD and people have a problem about how we scored. I don't give a rats ass about anything but the result.

Everyone's giving JP credit that he doesn't deserve for that play. The result of the play was good, yes- but to say that it shows JP is improving or that it vindicates his performance for the rest of the day is just ignorant. He got away with one- it worked out well for us. That still doesn't mean JP got it right.

[Wraith]

The only reason Losman gets props on that play is for recognizing the blown coverage and knowing that he could safely throw it to that spot even if he couldn't step into his throw (assuming that he DID know- if he didn't that was an incredibly stupid play, but we'll never know for sure).

This is exactly why there should be nobody complaining. I would add in the fact that he didn't bail on the throw even though he had defender about to drill him in plain sight. I do not think anyone here is claiming it was a beautiful pass.

It was a good decision, a gutsy move, and perfectly adequate throw....and people are complaining.