Kelsays Contract Is Insane - I Give The Bills 3-4 More Years, Tops..

[Night Train]

When an OK DE gets this kind of $$, the hand writing is on the wall. Think these massive salary increases aren't going to be passed on to the ticket buying fan ? Soon, every decent starter will be making 8 mil a year. What will Evans and Losman get within the next year, if we try to extend them ?

I see tickets going up significantly the next 2-3 years. I bet the NFL ticket on DirecTV will also take a huge jump. The Owners wish to maintain a certain profit margin and the players and agents want tons more $$. They still believe they are getting shorted ! Incredible. The fan doesn't even figure into the formula.

You honestly think the Bills can compete in this economic insanity ? Sideline seats will soon be $100 + a game. Endzone seats will be $60. Club seats, already slightly over $100, will be $175 a game. Maybe more. That includes pre-season, don't forget. In 2004 the cap was a high 80.5 Mil. Now it's 109 Mil and going up another 8 Mil next year. This is Friggin nuts !

I'll enjoy this team while I have it but I hope a new economically sane league forms when the Bills and several other teams leave the NFL within 5 years. A hard cap of 50-60 Mil. Take it or go flip burgers.

These player contracts are not realistic at all with the local economic conditions and the price ceiling on tickets has already been reached.

I can't believe they got this greedy and cooked the golden goose. The Bills and several other teams are now on short timer status with the NFL.

[LtFinFan66]

see Op's over-reacting thread please:snicker:

[Night Train]

Understand, I'm in my late 40's and attended dozens of games at the old Rockpile as a child in the 1960's. I've seen the NFL evolve for years and understand the economics.

My post is of a pragmatic, level headed observer who cannot see an average ticket price being icreased at such an unrealistic rate. The local market has reached it's price ceiling. If empty seats increase, the show soon leaves town.

Imagine the contracts we're going to see when FA starts Friday ? I think the reality check will soon kick in for many more.

[Don't Panic]

Unfortunately, I think there's quite a bit of truth to this thread. Wilson has been yelling fire for what appears to be all the right reasons. A 30 million $ cap jump in 3 years is reason for extreme concern. The only thing that can save us (since we can say with confidence that a hard cap isn't coming) would be a comprehensive revenue sharing system, and I'd say the odds of that are pretty slim.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I was priced out of season tickets a few years ago.

[LtFinFan66]

Understand, I'm in my late 40's and attended dozens of games at the old Rockpile as a child in the 1960's. I've seen the NFL evolve for years and understand the economics.

My post is of a pragmatic, level headed observer who cannot see an average ticket price being icreased at such an unrealistic rate. The local market has reached it's price ceiling. If empty seats increase, the show soon leaves town.

Imagine the contracts we're going to see when FA starts Friday ? I think the reality check will soon kick in for many more.Go Buckeyes!!

[Jan Reimers]

NT, I usually agree with you and find you to be one of the most reasonable posters here. But I think you have overreacted on this one.

While I don't totally disagree with your premise, I think the Bills' staying or leaving has little to do with players' salaries, and a lot more to do with a fair revenue sharing agreement and a willing local buyer when Ralph passes.

[BillsNick]

:goodpost:

[TacklingDummy]

When an OK DE gets this kind of $$, the hand writing is on the wall. Think these massive salary increases aren't going to be passed on to the ticket buying fan ? Soon, every decent starter will be making 8 mil a year. What will Evans and Losman get within the next year, if we try to extend them ?



Evans is history. There's no way Buffalo will cough up the cash it will take to keep him. Expect a holdout next year from Evans or trade.

For the Bills to survive in Buffalo the economy in the Buffalo area needs to get stronger.

[Italian Stallion]

Evans is history. There's no way Buffalo will cough up the cash it will take to keep him. Expect a holdout next year from Evans or trade.

For the Bills to survive in Buffalo the economy in the Buffalo area needs to get stronger.


How the hell do you know that? He's exactly the kind of player that defines what Marv is looking for...hardworking, selfless, and dedicated to the team.

How do you know they aren't spending less this year in order to resign him, along with your man lover JP Losman.

Some of you people are just so asinine with some of your comments....if you dont like what the team is doing then just leave. Dont come on this board anymore. Seriously, why waste your life on something that upsets you so much? If it pisses you off, why contine to subject yourself to it??

It's like banging your head against a brick wall, bi*ching that it hurts, and then continuing to do it while still *****ing.

Free Agency hasen't even started yet, please relax.

[TacklingDummy]

Who says it pisses me off?

Im realistic. Im not stupid. It will take a ton of cash to keep Evans in Buffalo. And as long as Ralph Wilson is the owner of the Bills that's not going to happen. Deal with it.

[eyedog]

So your saying that Bills ticket prices will be catching up to Sabre ticket prices ?

[Bill Brasky]

Christ.

I paid $300 for my Bills tickets this last year, and I have pretty good seats (lower bowl, near corner end zones). I'm far younger, probably make less than most of you older folk, and have debts just like all of you. $300... what is that... 3 days out of my work year? STOP WHINING, PEOPLE!

I don't buy into this price ceiling garbage one minute -- at least night right now -- and DEF not in WNY. Do you people realize exactly HOW CHEAP Bills tickets are? I tell people from other cities how much I pay and they think it is for 1 or 2 games, not the entire season!

People aren't having any problem forking over $100's to go to Sabres games... or come up for cash for Lindy's fine even! Sabres jersey's aren't cheap, but I seem to see people wearing those everywhere. Plain and simple - Bills fans are cheap. They want a golden palace but only want to pay for peanuts.

People stopped buying tickets not because they went up a whopping $2 last season... it's because the team has sucked for almost 10 years and Ralph and the old FO alienated the fan base.

I would pay far more for my tickets and I bet a lot of others here would too, esp if the product was better. Travel to any other stadium in the league if you don't think we have it good. $75-$100 to sit in nosebleeds at most other places... we don't even pay that to sit at the 50 yard line!

You want to pay bottom-of-the-barrel prices, then be prepared to listen to Ralph ***** some more while we sign a bunch of nobodys and the stadium falls apart.

The main problem is - the team ISN'T winning. When they do, people will pay more.

[Mr. Pink]

You know how much I paid back in 1999 for crappy seats for Browns season tickets? Up in the nosebleed section 25 yard line. 540 dollars. Not too mention the grand for the PSL.

You sit here and complain that you can get the best seats in the house on par with 540, meanwhile I ponied up the dollars to watch an expansion team as well as 73,000 other Browns fans.

300 bucks per seat for seats anywhere is underpriced, even with our team not making the playoffs in the better part of a decade. And financially, it's not like Cleveland is all that much better off than Buffalo.

I'm sick and tired of seeing people cry about the front office raising ticket prices 2% OH NO! They should raise ticket prices more like 20% to get more on par with the rest of the league. And still have one of the, if not the, cheapest tickets on average in the NFL. If Ralph can put a winner on the field for a couple seasons, this 20% increase is more than feasible.

[TacklingDummy]

I agree. Jack up the ticket prices. $300 for season tickets is cheap.

It's time for Ralph to stop crying about money and to start charging at least what the rest of the NFL average ticket price is. Maybe then the Bills can afford to keep players like Clements.

Maybe we had it all wrong. Ralph is not cheap, it's Bills fans that are cheap.

[mysticsoto]

I agree. Jack up the ticket prices. $300 for season tickets is cheap.

It's time for Ralph to stop crying about money and to start charging at least what the rest of the NFL average ticket price is. Maybe then the Bills can afford to keep players like Clements.

Maybe we had it all wrong. Ralph is not cheap, it's Bills fans that are cheap.


Ummm...how many games were blacked out last year???

[HHURRICANE]

I love Bills fans but stop acting like pussies. Your ticket prices are way too cheap. PERIOD. You people need to educate yourselves. Your local and state government are half the problem. Put the stadium downtown and raise ticket prices. Market the team better to places like Canada. Most of my firends that do business in Toronto fly to Buffalo because it's so much cheaper. Take advantage of it. Instead of having Bob Rich on a Billboard self promoting himself (cheap bastard) have signs that tell people why they should be staying in downtown Buffalo. Your small time because you act that way.

[gr8slayer]

If you all think Buffalo's ticket prices are bad come to Dallas. It will cost you $300 a ticket easily for top deck, nose bleed seats. I don't feel bad for anybody here ***** about prices.

[OpIv37]

at the rate things are going, ticket prices alone aren't going to keep the team afloat. Plus, there is the whole issue of the demand curve- as prices go up, demand goes down, and eventually you reach a point where price increases do not lead to revenue increases because of decreased demand.

If the Bills are going to become competitive in the NFL and not be forced out, they need more revenue. For starters, that means higher ticket prices and stadium naming rights. After that it gets more complicated, but if something isn't done, the Bills will eventually be forced to leave for greener pastures by the Snyders and Krafts of the league.

[HHURRICANE]

The Buffalo News is trying to justify his contract with guys that either had or ended up getting double digit sack totals. Does anyone here believe that Kelsay has 10-12 sacks in him? This is a desperate signing!!!!!


"While exact terms of the deal were not yet available, league sources said the contract averages about $5.75 million a year, and includes roughly $14 million in guaranteed money. That's in line with what some promising defensive ends at the same stage in their careers got last offseason. Aaron Kampman, considered by Green Bay to be a budding star last March, got a $5.25 million average after a 6<SUP>1</SUP>/2-sack season. It was a smart move by the Packers. He jumped up to 15<SUP>1</SUP>/2 sacks in 2006. Tennessee gave Kyle Vanden Bosch a $5.5 million average in the wake of a 12<SUP>1</SUP>/2-sack season, which had followed four poor years. Last season Vanden Bosch dropped down to 6<SUP>1</SUP>/2 sacks."

[TacklingDummy]

. Does anyone here believe that Kelsay has 10-12 sacks in him?




Are you saying for a year or for his 4-year career so far?

[Jan Reimers]

at the rate things are going, ticket prices alone aren't going to keep the team afloat. Plus, there is the whole issue of the demand curve- as prices go up, demand goes down, and eventually you reach a point where price increases do not lead to revenue increases because of decreased demand
The Bills are a regional franchise, drawing from Western and Central NY, Northeast PA, and Southern ONT. Unless ticket prices become totally unreasonable, I would have to think that we could sell 72,000 tickets (actually fewer, figuring that a certain number of seats are sold to the visiting teams' fans) to eight games - IF the team starts winning again.

[Night Train]

Christ.

I paid $300 for my Bills tickets this last year, and I have pretty good seats (lower bowl, near corner end zones). I'm far younger, probably make less than most of you older folk, and have debts just like all of you.

You own a house, married and have kids ? Debts/expenses just like me ? If you're single with no dependents, your statement is silly beyond explanation.

I could justify most any expense, when single. It becomes tricky when married.

I hope the Bills don't price themselves out of orbit but it's getting dangerously close to that.

[HHURRICANE]

You own a house, married and have kids ? Debts/expenses just like me ? If you're single with no dependents, your statement is silly beyond explanation.

I could justify most any expense, when single. It becomes tricky when married.

I hope the Bills don't price themselves out of orbit but it's getting dangerously close to that.

It's not "life, liberty, and cheap Bills tickets".

[Stewie]

You own a house, married and have kids ? Debts/expenses just like me ? If you're single with no dependents, your statement is silly beyond explanation.

I could justify most any expense, when single. It becomes tricky when married.

I hope the Bills don't price themselves out of orbit but it's getting dangerously close to that.

I'm married, young, don't make enough money, kids, mortgage, etc. I don't think 300 is too much for season tickets. I'd pay twice that, per seat, if I lived in Buffalo and the Bills were winning.

When adding $300 a year stretches one's budget beyond repair, it's time to start scaling the lifestyle back, don't you think?

[TacklingDummy]

When adding $300 a year stretches one's budget beyond repair, it's time to start scaling the lifestyle back, don't you think?

Or its time to find a better job.

If $300 stretches one's budget beyond repair then they are wasting their money on something more then just Bills tickets.

Plus there's always option B. Don't buy season tickets, buy single game tickets.

[Bill Brasky]

You own a house, married and have kids ? Debts/expenses just like me ? If you're single with no dependents, your statement is silly beyond explanation.
Actually, it's not silly, considering there are tons of Bills fans willing to pay more for their tickets.

If you can't afford the tickets then that is unfortunate and nobody is going to look differently upon you - you're still a fan just like us! But please don't ***** and make the situation seem more grave than it really is. The majority of people aren't filling the stadium because:

- the ownership and front office sucked for years and destroyed the franchise/product on the field.
- Bills fans are cheap

I love the excuses that fly when the team isn't winning (tickets are too expensive, it's too cold out, my seat is wet from the rain last night, i might have to wait in traffic for 5 minutes). When the team was good nobody *****ed about ANY of this garbage.

There are two types of people in this world - those who realize their plight but fight through adversity... and those that wallow in self-pity and makes excuses for all their problems. Ralph Wilson seems to be in the latter, and it sounds like it's rubbing off on a lot of fans.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Actually, it's not silly, considering there are tons of Bills fans willing to pay more for their tickets.

If you can't afford the tickets then that is unfortunate and nobody is going to look differently upon you - you're still a fan just like us! But please don't ***** and make the situation seem more grave than it really is. The majority of people aren't filling the stadium because:

- the ownership and front office sucked for years and destroyed the franchise/product on the field.
- Bills fans are cheap

I love the excuses that fly when the team isn't winning (tickets are too expensive, it's too cold out, my seat is wet from the rain last night, i might have to wait in traffic for 5 minutes). When the team was good nobody *****ed about ANY of this garbage.

There are two types of people in this world - those who realize their plight but fight through adversity... and those that wallow in self-pity and makes excuses for all their problems. Ralph Wilson seems to be in the latter, and it sounds like it's rubbing off on a lot of fans.

:bf1:
If you can afford 400 for tickets how could you not squeeze out 600??

[Bill Brasky]

at the rate things are going, ticket prices alone aren't going to keep the team afloat.
I agree that the salary cap is becoming a major issue, but salaries are basically covered by the revenue sharing... so of course as the revenue deals get bigger, the cap will go up.

What worries me is Ralph's cracker-jack tactics. He's not selling seats, he's pissing off fans, he's not willing to investigate new marketing or revenue streams, and he's not willing to spend any money that he does have to get decent, impact guys in here.

It's like he's folded his arms, thrown a hissy fit, took his ball, and went home.

[TedMock]

I agree that the salary cap is becoming a major issue, but salaries are basically covered by the revenue sharing... so of course as the revenue deals get bigger, the cap will go up.

What worries me is Ralph's cracker-jack tactics. He's not selling seats, he's pissing off fans, he's not willing to investigate new marketing or revenue streams, and he's not willing to spend any money that he does have to get decent, impact guys in here.

It's like he's folded his arms, thrown a hissy fit, took his ball, and went home.

This is more like it. I think Ralph hates the new breed (I don't blame him), but that's no reason to be stubborn and display some know-it-all attitude by not looking down other avenues. Obviously we can't say for sure that's the case, but he's pretty much spelled it out that "it's unfair, no I'm not doing that, no I'm not entertaining that, it's just unfair, etc." The guy is no dummy. He appears to be stubborn right now.

He can raise ticket prices, but he has to use the great marketing machine that he has access to. The blackouts aren't his fault, but he doesn't help the matter. People don't want to pay to go watch a team that isn't being run as well as others. Fine. On the other hand, if you're not willing to pay for the game, you have no right to complain that the free television perq is no longer an option. I'm married with two kids. I live in Prince William County Virginia and it takes me an hour to drive to BWI airport. It costs me about $120 to fly home (plus another $120 for my wife). Our season tickets were $765 dollars last year for two. We're not wealthy by any stretch, but it's something we're willing to do as we love going to games. There are obviously a handful that we can't make. I sell those seats. It's pretty easy to do even during blackouts.

Sunday ticket is under $300 for the season. That's always an option. The satellite dish in general is cheaper than my Comcast cable was too.

There are options out there which are not real expensive. If you don't care enough to buy a ticket, that's perfectly fine. Don't watch. No big deal. Just don't complain about paying under fair market value. $100 got me a 400 level ticket at a Redskins game 3 years ago. That's a ripoff even in a good economy. I hate the Skins, but the fans out here have reason to complain about prices. Us Bills fans do not have any reason to complain about prices. Yes, that's even taking into account the economic differences.

[Bill Brasky]

the nail on the head!!