London Fletcher and Derrick Dockery

[Redskins4life234]

Hey guys, I'm hear to ask you, your opinions of London Fletcher, as you guys, know first hand what he is about. In return, Im about to tell you what I, and many other Redskin fans see Derrick Dockery as.


First off, I'm sad to see Dockery go, but for, to that, I am hell of glad the skins didnt sign him for 49 Million. He is NOT worth 49 million dollars. To me, he is mroe worth 20-30 million. He is not going to make your line any better then it already is. Dockery is a good Guard, not a great Guard. But to that, hes not going to make it any worst. I am going to tell you, in 2 years, you will be upset about the money you gave him, but not that you have him. Also, Dockery whenw with the skins, was still a work in progress. He was still learning and was getting better every year. If he stayed with us 2 years more, disregarding any injury, he would be 10x better then, then he is now. I'm not saying he is going to get any worst under the bills, as I don't know your system nor how good your oline coach is. So he does have the chance to get better.

Some cons about Dockery are penalties. He gets a lot of false starts and holds. But all that can be taken away with work to stop it. He also isn't that great at pulling.

Some pros: He doesn't let up many sacks, nor let any defenders blow him by in the run or pass. Secondly, that has stick to my mine, his hussle! One play that sticks to mine was back in 2005. It was about a 30 yard pass from Brunell to Cooley, Cooley had possasion, and then fumbled [which he rarely does] Noone was near the ball, other then Cooley and the Defender who tackled him, but they weren't in position to grab it. Dockery, as soon as the pass was let off, was hussling down fair, and went up an extra gear as he saw the ball came out. He recovered the fumble.


So now, with all that, How good is fletcher? How much gas does he have left? How did he do in G.W.'s system compared to the one he was just in? Will he be a bust? Will he fill in our weak spot? Thanks.. and good luck next season.

[Philagape]

He is not going to make your line any better then it already is. Dockery is a good Guard, not a great Guard.

That's an upgrade right there.

[patmoran2006]

Fletcher is a warrior..

The knock is he makes too many tackles downfield.. part of the problem with that is Buffalo's DT's are so weak, they often get blown off the play and the OL gets to the second level every running play.

he had 4 int's and 2 Td's this year, so he's capable of making big plays.

He's a real good player.. You will be happy you got him.

[Devin]

Hey guys, I'm hear to ask you, your opinions of London Fletcher, as you guys, know first hand what he is about. In return, Im about to tell you what I, and many other Redskin fans see Derrick Dockery as.


First off, I'm sad to see Dockery go, but for, to that, I am hell of glad the skins didnt sign him for 49 Million. He is NOT worth 49 million dollars. To me, he is mroe worth 20-30 million. He is not going to make your line any better then it already is. Dockery is a good Guard, not a great Guard. But to that, hes not going to make it any worst. I am going to tell you, in 2 years, you will be upset about the money you gave him, but not that you have him. Also, Dockery whenw with the skins, was still a work in progress. He was still learning and was getting better every year. If he stayed with us 2 years more, disregarding any injury, he would be 10x better then, then he is now. I'm not saying he is going to get any worst under the bills, as I don't know your system nor how good your oline coach is. So he does have the chance to get better.

Some cons about Dockery are penalties. He gets a lot of false starts and holds. But all that can be taken away with work to stop it. He also isn't that great at pulling.

Some pros: He doesn't let up many sacks, nor let any defenders blow him by in the run or pass. Secondly, that has stick to my mine, his hussle! One play that sticks to mine was back in 2005. It was about a 30 yard pass from Brunell to Cooley, Cooley had possasion, and then fumbled [which he rarely does] Noone was near the ball, other then Cooley and the Defender who tackled him, but they weren't in position to grab it. Dockery, as soon as the pass was let off, was hussling down fair, and went up an extra gear as he saw the ball came out. He recovered the fumble.


So now, with all that, How good is fletcher? How much gas does he have left? How did he do in G.W.'s system compared to the one he was just in? Will he be a bust? Will he fill in our weak spot? Thanks.. and good luck next season.

Fletcher is a great guy on and off the field and a solid team leader. Hes solid in pass coverage and an average tackler. He had a habit of making tackles 4-5-6 yards out which obviously is a little counter productive. But he will make plays for you. I think he will give you a solid 2 years at least. As i said in another thread he wont make the pro-bowl but hes right there on that cusp, at least for the next season or two. Unfortunatley time is catching up to him.

As far as Dockery goes its the market. As a Redskin fan im sure you know that the redskins saying anyone overpaid for a FA is a bit comical.

And Dockery is not only an upgrade but paired with Peters will hopefully make both better.

[Slim]

Our line is terrible. And to line him up with Jason Peters makes the left side of your line very good.

[YardRat]

Fletcher will be a better fit in GW's system than he was in the T2 last year, and he should have a couple of years left. Not the fastest MLB, but he'll get to the ball. Not the tallest either, but he can still drop back in zone pass coverage. Fletch performs best against the run when he's filling gaps with a big line in front of him so offensive linemen can't get a hat on him. Against the pass he's fine in the middle zone, but don't expect him to go sideline to sideline unless he's the second/third man in. A little too short to get real deep, also.

He's an upgrade for you guys, and you'll like his durability and the leadership he brings to the field and the locker room.

Good guy, I hope he does well unless you're playing us :D

[G. Host]

London Fletcher will be a happy addition to Snyder's parties.
I would have been glad if London Fletcher could have stayed but he did not fit the new defense.

You will not see London Fletcher ever not give 100%.

[feelthepain]

Originally Posted by Redskins4life234
He is not going to make your line any better then it already is. Dockery is a good Guard, not a great Guard.


Ahhh, what do you know, you're just a Redskin fan! The Bills just locked up one of the best FA's on the market and JP will turn into Tom Brady thanks to this monster signing. Gosh, don't you know anything?!?!?

[Redskins4life234]

F

As far as Dockery goes its the market. As a Redskin fan im sure you know that the redskins saying anyone overpaid for a FA is a bit comical.



Sadly enough, that might be a true, but, the Skins did try to resign him, and they couldn't come to an agreement, and that is because, we knew, he was not worth 49 Million. 49 is what hutchinson is making, and he is no hutchinson is making. I'm not trying to be all, now hes not a redskin, he sucks thing. He is a good player, and I hope him the best, and 5 years down the road, he has 4 probowls on his belt, I will be very happy for him. I hope for him to do very well. But as of right now, March 3rd, 2007, he is not worth 49 Million. in 2 years though, March, 3rd, 2009 he might. He is getting better every year, and learning under one of the greater Oline coaches in the NFL isn't to bad ethier and be surronded by talent. As I see from the other post, your line isn't that good, which I didn't know, as I don't know that much about the Bills as I do other teams. But if you have a good teacher as your oline coach, he WILL get better.

[gr8slayer]

Fletcher is a great leader and will be missed here.

[madness]

You keep blockers off of Fletcher and he will be making plays all over the field. He's also one of the most intelligent LB's in the game and knows how to run a defense better then most MLBs in the league.


Also, Dockery whenw with the skins, was still a work in progress. He was still learning and was getting better every year. If he stayed with us 2 years more, disregarding any injury, he would be 10x better then, then he is now. I'm not saying he is going to get any worst under the bills, as I don't know your system nor how good your oline coach is. So he does have the chance to get better.


Then Dockery is in the right place and he will flourish. McNally is our OL coach and he is highly regarded around the league as one of the best. If I recall correctly, in Dockery's interview he mentioned McNally was a factor in his decision to sign with us.

[Bulldog]

Ahhh, what do you know, you're just a Redskin fan! The Bills just locked up one of the best FA's on the market and JP will turn into Tom Brady thanks to this monster signing. Gosh, don't you know anything?!?!?

Cry me a river! Somebody feels a bit left out as the only thing Miami has done is ......well nothing to speak of. I see they unloaded Wilkinson to Denver for a 6th round pick. Next you're going to tell us that Miami is having the best FA period in the AFC. Like I said before, go cry on Finheaven will all the other losers!

[Devin]

....and that is because, we knew, he was not worth 49 Million. 49 is what hutchinson is making, and he is no hutchinson

What did Rams fans think of what you paid Archuleta? Or maybe Pitt fans with Randle El?

I understand what your saying. And I agree, Dockery is no Hutch ill be the first to admit it. And yes we overpaid.

But the same can be said about Clements, Thomas, Dielman, Steinbach.....etc. Just the nature of the beast.

[SABURZFAN]

Ahhh, what do you know, you're just a Redskin fan! The Bills just locked up one of the best FA's on the market and JP will turn into Tom Brady thanks to this monster signing. Gosh, don't you know anything?!?!?



who said that?

[Devin]

Ahhh, what do you know, you're just a Redskin fan! The Bills just locked up one of the best FA's on the market and JP will turn into Tom Brady thanks to this monster signing. Gosh, don't you know anything?!?!?

lol Dolphins.

[ddaryl]

Ahhh, what do you know, you're just a Redskin fan! The Bills just locked up one of the best FA's on the market and JP will turn into Tom Brady thanks to this monster signing. Gosh, don't you know anything?!?!?


Ya know what really makes me laugh my ass off !!!

is the fact that you underestimate JP's developement. last year was his 1st full season, and 1st year with new coaches and a new playbook. He had a rought start, but then mid season we make an OL change and he definitely improved along with the OL.

JP is going to be a really good QB. how good/great is yet to be determined, but he is definitely a much better QB then you wil let yourself believe. The Dolphins could only be so lucky

[Redskins4life234]

What did Rams fans think of what you paid Archuleta? Or maybe Pitt fans with Randle El?

I understand what your saying. And I agree, Dockery is no Hutch ill be the first to admit it. And yes we overpaid.

But the same can be said about Clements, Thomas, Dielman, Steinbach.....etc. Just the nature of the beast.

And for AA, we are paying the price for a stupid move. ARE, I'm not calling a bust, but he may of got a little too much, but the thing is, if the bills would of payed Doc, anywhere between,20-35 mil, I would say he was not over payed, but anything over 35, he is being overpayed. Now from what one poster said, you have a great oline coach, so maybe in 2 years he will be worth 49 million, but right now hes not. But for you guys, you have a lot of cap room, so its not going to hurt you now, or in the near future.

[theanswer74]

Geez, forget the money, the guy is a good football player. This is DOnte Whitner all over again.

He is good, but not worth that high a pick or that much money. If he is good he is good, the Bills wanted him.

Im getting tired of Redskin fans talking about what he makes. You read the Redskin board and they praise Dockery, then we sign him and he is just OK.

Please! I saw people people saying WE CANT LET DOCKERY GO and then yesterday say he wasnt that good.

Forget the money, its about the player. Derrick Dockery is a good football player. If anyone wants to tell me that Derrick Dockery wont improve our LG play over Gandy, Reyes, and Bennie Anderson, they just need to go away.


As for London FLetcher, he is a good football player. But he is at his peak, so he could start to decline any day. Not a physical LB. Can get smothered out there, but will always be around the football.

[Redskins4life234]

Geez, forget the money, the guy is a good football player. This is DOnte Whitner all over again.

He is good, but not worth that high a pick or that much money. If he is good he is good, the Bills wanted him.

Im getting tired of Redskin fans talking about what he makes. You read the Redskin board and they praise Dockery, then we sign him and he is just OK.

Please! I saw people people saying WE CANT LET DOCKERY GO and then yesterday say he wasnt that good.

Forget the money, its about the player. Derrick Dockery is a good football player. If anyone wants to tell me that Derrick Dockery wont improve our LG play over Gandy, Reyes, and Bennie Anderson, they just need to go away.


As for London FLetcher, he is a good football player. But he is at his peak, so he could start to decline any day. Not a physical LB. Can get smothered out there, but will always be around the football.

Yeah, and if also read what people say at the boards "I'm sad to see him go. I wish he didnt elt him go but.. too abd we let him go.."

Noone wanted him gone, but noone wanted him so much we would pay him 49 Mil. He is a good player.. find one spot in this thread were I said he was anything less then a good player, but on our line, he was the least best of the 5. He is good, and only getting better, find me a spot where I said he would get worst on here. I'm not bashing Doc, I like Doc, and I hope him the best, and I'm sad to see him go, but as of right now. 5:00 Est, March 3rd, 2007, I feel with his skill, he is not worth 49 Mil.

And to everyone, thanks for all the Fletcher info, and keep it coming.

[theanswer74]

Yeah, and if also read what people say at the boards "I'm sad to see him go. I wish he didnt elt him go but.. too abd we let him go.."

Noone wanted him gone, but noone wanted him so much we would pay him 49 Mil. He is a good player.. find one spot in this thread were I said he was anything less then a good player, but on our line, he was the least best of the 5. He is good, and only getting better, find me a spot where I said he would get worst on here. I'm not bashing Doc, I like Doc, and I hope him the best, and I'm sad to see him go, but as of right now. 5:00 Est, March 3rd, 2007, I feel with his skill, he is not worth 49 Mil.

And to everyone, thanks for all the Fletcher info, and keep it coming.

Every Bills fan knows the guy isnt worth 49 million. We just needed a good OG. Plus, like you said, he still has more potential. Im glad we went out and got a good OG, It really doesnt matter to me how much he was.

I wasnt really pointing a finger at you, its the Extremeskins board. You did say he wouldnt make our line better though, which is laughable. Our interior OL was pathetic.

[Mahdi]

Yeah, and if also read what people say at the boards "I'm sad to see him go. I wish he didnt elt him go but.. too abd we let him go.."

Noone wanted him gone, but noone wanted him so much we would pay him 49 Mil. He is a good player.. find one spot in this thread were I said he was anything less then a good player, but on our line, he was the least best of the 5. He is good, and only getting better, find me a spot where I said he would get worst on here. I'm not bashing Doc, I like Doc, and I hope him the best, and I'm sad to see him go, but as of right now. 5:00 Est, March 3rd, 2007, I feel with his skill, he is not worth 49 Mil.

And to everyone, thanks for all the Fletcher info, and keep it coming.
The thing is.... the Redskins have 5 potential pro-bowlers on the line. Samuels is a PBer, so is Jansen, then you have Randy Thomas who is one of the best guards in the league, and then Kasey Rabach who came from the Ravens as one of the best Centers in the league....so when you say worst on the line where everyone is about a 9 out of 10.... then Dockery is 8 but with a higher ceiling cuz hes young. So really the Bills are getting a HUGE upgrade on the OL, which makes him worth 49 mil.... but for the reasons mentionned above hes not worth as much to the Skins... you lose Dockery and you still have 4 outstanding players on the OL....

[Redskins4life234]

Every Bills fan knows the guy isnt worth 49 million. We just needed a good OG. Plus, like you said, he still has more potential. Im glad we went out and got a good OG, It really doesnt matter to me how much he was.

I wasnt really pointing a finger at you, its the Extremeskins board. You did say he wouldnt make our line better though, which is laughable. Our interior OL was pathetic.

Reason i said he wouldn't make your line better is because 1) My lack of knowledge of your offensive line. 2) he, in my eyes, as I've said a million times, is a good player, but Isn't a leader on the line, and was more of a filler player. If a guy who is betetr then Doc, came to us and knocked on the door and said I would come here to play for little money, we would take him in a heartbeat. Last offseason, we were looking at possible players to take Doc's place. After this year, he took 3 steps foward, and will take many more steps with you guys.

But money aside, you guys got your self a young good guard, with good teaching, will turn into a great guard and hoply a future pro bowler. Dockery came out of the draft almost a nobody, but got tought and worked hard, he is now making 49 Mil, so if I were his father, I'd be very very very very with a lot mroe verys proud of him.


Also to ES comment, its not everyone at ES. Most people have the same view I have, and then there are the idiots, who are one second I love him, the other hes horrible. I go on ES everyday, as my SN here, is the same there, so the whole board the self isn't like that. Its a miniority of the board, who sometimes seems to stand out. But right now, many people are freaking out what are we going to do now to replace Dockery, so don't think aren't just shrugging him off either.

[Devin]

Well said man.

Dockery for us no question is an upgrade. Peters is turning into a pro-bowl calibur LT so teaming those two should provide a very physical very tough left side. Gandy was basically servicable at LG nothing more.

Peters is locked up through 2011 I believe and Dockery through 2014. So those two have nothing but time to grow together. Walker being here through 2012 will give the Bills a OL that has potential to stay and grow as a unit for a long time. And the oldest player on our line is 28.

Fowler is average. Not good but not bad either. Average. Our RG position was basically a joke and RT you could argue average or worse.

The Walker signing im on the fence about but hopefully he ends up at OG and plays up to his size/potential.

While over-paid Dockery is no question a significant upgrade.

[feelthepain]

Ya know what really makes me laugh my ass off !!!

is the fact that you underestimate JP's developement. last year was his 1st full season, and 1st year with new coaches and a new playbook. He had a rought start, but then mid season we make an OL change and he definitely improved along with the OL.

JP is going to be a really good QB. how good/great is yet to be determined, but he is definitely a much better QB then you wil let yourself believe. The Dolphins could only be so lucky


You're not laughing nearly as hard at us underestimating him, as we are at you for overesitamting him....trust me!

[feelthepain]

who said that?

I'm just helping spread the word...since we've been "put on notice"!!

[Devin]

You're not laughing nearly as hard at us underestimating him, as we are at you for overesitamting him....trust me!

While im sure when it does actually happen you will have a myriad of excuses to throw our way, The bills will not only whoop up on the fins again this year but JP will outperform whoever is at QB behind your paper ol.

[SABURZFAN]

I'm just helping spread the word...since we've been "put on notice"!!


put on notice???for what????

[jamze132]

FTP is ****ing troll.

[raphael120]

while he may be overpaid, i would rather overpay for growing, proven talent on the Oline than a mediocre questionable upside DE...but enough about Kelsay, I'm really glad we locked Doc up, he will only get better and I think in the long run, the Bills are going to have an awesome oline, the time of regression and unstability in Buffalo is coming to an end. if the sabres can do it, then so can the bills.

[feelthepain]

put on notice???for what????


http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=121347

[feelthepain]

While im sure when it does actually happen you will have a myriad of excuses to throw our way, The bills will not only whoop up on the fins again this year but JP will outperform whoever is at QB behind your paper ol.


Who says it's gonna happen? You? Well I guess I'll lose sleep now. I love how JP has an avg. season no probowls, playoffs or even a winning season unlike the record seasons, playoff wins and probowls Daunte has had, but Daunte sucks and JP will light it up. Nothing like hope turnning into fact, while fact turns into hope for Bill fans, classic. I will say this, Bill fans sure know how to post for effect.

[Bulldog]

Who says it's gonna happen? You? Well I guess I'll lose sleep now. I love how JP has an avg. season no probowls, playoffs or even a winning season unlike the record seasons, playoff wins and probowls Daunte has had, but Daunte sucks and JP will light it up. Nothing like hope turnning into fact, while fact turns into hope. I will say this, Bill fans sure nknow how to post for effect.

Boy that Daunte shure looked like a pro-bowler last season. He was so good in fact, that he was replaced by Joey freaking Harrington and some dude named Cleo. Talk about grasping for straws. When was the last time that Culpepper put up even decent numbers? I know you will come back with your typical lame excuses... he was injured, Mularky screwed him up.. blah blah blah. Face the facts, Buffalo has made improvements since the season ended while Miami has done nothing. Unless you call trading a d-lineman for a 6th round pick progress. But it's all good, because Miami is the better team as evidence by the fact they were swept by Buffalo last year. Go back to finheaven and cry!

[feelthepain]

Boy that Daunte shure looked like a pro-bowler last season. He was so good in fact, that he was replaced by Joey freaking Harrington and some dude named Cleo. Talk about grasping for straws. When was the last time that Culpepper put up even decent numbers? I know you will come back with your typical lame excuses... he was injured, Mularky screwed him up.. blah blah blah. Face the facts, Buffalo has made improvements since the season ended while Miami has done nothing. Unless you call trading a d-lineman for a 6th round pick progress. But it's all good, because Miami is the better team as evidence by the fact they were swept by Buffalo last year. Go back to finheaven and cry!


Dreamer, you're nothing but a dreamer, living with your head in your hands, oh no!!!

[Redskins4life234]

Dreamer, you're nothing but a dreamer, living with your head in your hands, oh no!!!
Go troll somewhere else, quite annoying.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm just helping spread the word...since we've been "put on notice"!!

Dude, don't forget about our bet!!! Your phins are going to suck even worse this year without Harrington. I told you last year you were going to suck before your first game, and you were indignant about it. Believe me it's going to be alot worse this year.

[feelthepain]

Dude, don't forget about our bet!!! Your phins are going to suck even worse this year without Harrington. I told you last year you were going to suck before your first game, and you were indignant about it. Believe me it's going to be alot worse this year.


Really, why are you psychic?? I guess you had the Saints in the NFC championship game too right? I can't wait to hear your prediction for the Bills, did I hear you say something about a division title?? BTW, it's tough not to be indignant with Bll fans.

[John Doe]

He is NOT worth 49 million dollars. To me, he is mroe worth 20-30 million. He is not going to make your line any better then it already is. Dockery is a good Guard, not a great Guard. But to that, hes not going to make it any worst. I am going to tell you, in 2 years, you will be upset about the money you gave him, but not that you have him. Also, Dockery whenw with the skins, was still a work in progress. He was still learning and was getting better every year. If he stayed with us 2 years more, disregarding any injury, he would be 10x better then, then he is now. I'm not saying he is going to get any worst under the bills, as I don't know your system nor how good your oline coach is. So he does have the chance to get better.


If Dockery is "good" now and is a "work in progress" that can be "10x better then, then he is now" I would venture to say that he is probably worth $49 million.

[TigerJ]

Fletcher is a leader on and off the field. He's very smart, and I disagree with those who say he isn't fast. He's slowed down some with time, but was one of the faster linebackers in the game when he started out. He did not seem to fit the Tampa 2 scheme the Bills are running very well. He was great in pass defense and had several knockdowns and even a couple interceptions. In the running game he made lots of tackles, but a lot of them were downfield, after the running back had already gained 5 or 10 yards. He needed bigger DTs to protect him from blockers.

Looking at Dockery's stats, he improved significantly from his third season to his fourth both in sacks allowed and penalties. That seems to affirm your thought that he's been a work in progress. Buffalo's O-line coach, Jim McNally is widely regarded as one of the top two or three in the NFL. The Bills also employ a second offensive line coach. Sean Kugler will work more with the tackles so McNally will really concentrate on the guards and centers. That should help Dockery continue his progress.

Did the Bills over pay? Hard to say. With the big increas in the cap this offseason everyone is paying big bucks for players. If Dockery playes up to his potential, by the second half of his contract period he will seem like a bargain. If he doesn't he will literally be a heavy burden for the Bills to bear.

[Redskins4life234]

Fletcher is a leader on and off the field. He's very smart, and I disagree with those who say he isn't fast. He's slowed down some with time, but was one of the faster linebackers in the game when he started out. He did not seem to fit the Tampa 2 scheme the Bills are running very well. He was great in pass defense and had several knockdowns and even a couple interceptions. In the running game he made lots of tackles, but a lot of them were downfield, after the running back had already gained 5 or 10 yards. He needed bigger DTs to protect him from blockers.

Looking at Dockery's stats, he improved significantly from his third season to his fourth both in sacks allowed and penalties. That seems to affirm your thought that he's been a work in progress. Buffalo's O-line coach, Jim McNally is widely regarded as one of the top two or three in the NFL. The Bills also employ a second offensive line coach. Sean Kugler will work more with the tackles so McNally will really concentrate on the guards and centers. That should help Dockery continue his progress.

Did the Bills over pay? Hard to say. With the big increas in the cap this offseason everyone is paying big bucks for players. If Dockery playes up to his potential, by the second half of his contract period he will seem like a bargain. If he doesn't he will literally be a heavy burden for the Bills to bear.
Thanks on the words for Fletcher.

Now what I have said on a view times in this thread about Doc, is at this moment he may be overpayed, but in a few years he may be worth it, or may not. It'll be one of those things were you'll ask, espically with the critism of the money. Was the deal worth it. Right now, One year over, the Skins are already saying, AA was not worth it. Brandon Lloyd, so so, give him another chance, and ARE, not a total bust, could do better give him more time. So, in a year or two, you will all ask your self, was the deal worth it, and who knows the answer. Now another thing though, because you have a good coach for Doc, thats great for him. Hes going frome one good coach to another, but then, what type of Scheme is he going to? I don't know much about the bills, and to the oline and the offense they run, is my littlest of knowledge of the bills. If the bill run a similar system to the skins in blocking, it'll be great as the page will only turn for a little bit for what hes learning. But if Doc for say, was heading to denver, he would be running a whole different scheme, and I wouldnt know how he would fit in. Many things also will determind his success or failure. Injuries will be a thing too, and lets hope it doesn't. But, overall Doc isn't going to hurt your team, its just how much will he help you.

Also, the skins were offering Doc around 8 guranteed and about 5 per year.

[kgun12]

I'm just helping spread the word...since we've been "put on notice"!!


If it's so bad here why do you continue to post. Everything I read from you is always trying to get Bills fans to praise your fins. I understand you like them and that is your choice. But remember this is a Bills board, We don't like the fins and are not going to have a whole lot of nice things to say about them. That what finheaven is for! If your trying to piss us off I don't like that is working either, your posts aren't that good!

There are Dolphin fans here I respect because they bring positive things to this board. Hell One of my favorite poelpe on this site is a Dolphin fan, (Hi Dan) so it's not the fact that I or we dislke all fin fans, just the one's that are here to cause trouble ALL THE TIME!!!

As far as being put on notice, well deserved and well overdue!

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Thanks for your input R4L234! Let me first comment on Fletcher for you:

First, let me say that most of the comments on Fletcher's play in this thread have been fair and accurate.

Fletcher will make a lot of tackles for your team--he's a veritable tackling-machine, but he does need to be protected by DTs who can soak up blockers to be most effective because he really isn't an attacking LB who can shed blockers while moving to the point of attack. He still has decent speed and is good in pass coverage in the short middle, but no longer can cover speedy RBs in the deep middle zone downfield.

Fletcher's greatest assets are his intangibles: his hustle, leadership, work ethic and knowledge of the game--which are things that your defense really need. For example: when the Bills were struggling in 2005, Fletcher addressed the team twice at halftime of games in an effort to get his defensive mates to play better and on several occasions after bad losses, he was one of the few Bills players to take some responsibility for their poor play in talking to the media afterwards, talking about how every player on the team needed to look in the mirror and see what mistakes he made and what he needed to do to get better instead of making excuses or pointing fingers at others. Last season, Fletcher not only repeatedly called Bills' draftees D.Whitner and A.Youboty, but went out to Ohio to workout with them when NFL rules prevented them from attending the early season OTAs to help the two rookies get up to speed on what the team was doing in those OTA sessions. During the season, he took it upon himself to make sure that the players, five of whom were rookies and all of whom were learning an entirely new defensive scheme, were all lined up properly and knew their assignments on defense before every snap. In short, he was a leader both on and off the field. And, during his Bills career, he played as hard at the end of every game as he did at the beginning, regardless of the score.

Fletcher is a perfect fit in the Washington defense: he knows the system intimately from having played under G.Williams and J.Gray and will be able to step in and play without any adjustment period. Indeed, as has been mentioned, he is a better fit in the defense that your team runs than in the Tampa 2 that the Bills installed when D.Jauron took over last year.

If your team has the DTs to protect him, I expect that Redskins fans will LOVE Fletcher and that he will play well for them. The problem is that he is (or will soon be) 32 and it's only going to be a matter of a short amount of time before he starts slowing down. He's smart and he knows the game, so I would expect that he should be able to give your team two good years before you start to see a noticeable drop-off in his play (that's if G.Williams continues as your DC for that long and the team continues to run the same defensive system as it has now). After that...well, let's just say that there haven't been that many 35 year old MLBs in the NFL who have been able to play at a high level at that age or older, so you'll probably have to draft a MLB in the next year or two to groom to take over for him after that.

The reason that the Bills let him go is that, while they loved his leadership and hustle, they did not feel that he was a good fit in the new Tampa 2 defense that they are using and were unwilling to give him the kind of committment in terms of money and years that he was looking for and got from Washington. The Bills are building a very young core of defensive players that they hope will be the foundation of a sustained playoff run over the course of several years. At 32, Fletcher is simply too old to be around and would have to be replaced at the point when they would be starting to make that run. And, it would not be prudent for a team with limited resources to give a five year contract to a player that they would only be keeping for 2-3 years when, during that time, they would need cap room to re-sign some of their younger core players. Washington, on the otherhand, is in a different situation--especially with Gibbs and G.Williams needing to produce results soon and D.Snyder being able to absorb the cash outlays he would have to make to Fletcher now and his replacement later. So, for Washington, in the short term, this was a good signing.

Now on to Dockery:

I can appreciate what you are saying about the cost of this contract: it certainly is a lot of money to lay out for a player who has yet to be named to the Pro Bowl! But, as in the case of Fletcher, value is a relative term here. The LG position has been a "black hole" for the Bills for several years now as they have spent a considerable amount of time and money unsuccessfully trying to fill the position with a player who would even approach being considered "adequate". If Dockery is just a "good" player, that would arguably give the Bills the best LG play that they have had this century (R.Brown was an All-Pro before leaving, but his play had slipped a lot before his departure). And, that alone, would be worth a lot to the Bills.

Looking at Dockery's stats, I noted the tendency he has to take penalties that you pointed out and that certainly could be a problem. Rueben Brown, who was an All-Pro for the Bills before going to Chicago, had a maddening tendency to commit penalties, too--always at a critical time in the game when it would kill a key drive. So, we Bills fans are kind of used to that sort of thing from our LGs. Still, that is better than seeing our LG get knocked on his butt or consistently pushed back into the face of our QB while missing a half-dozen or so blocks and/or giving up a sack or two every game--which is pretty much the kind of play that the Bills have gotten out of their LGs since R.Brown left.

You say that Dockery is a hard-worker who has gotten better every year. If that is the case, he should do well with the Bills. Buffalo's O-line coach, J.McNally, coached the Cincy line with A.Munoz in the late 1980s and was with the Giants when they went to the SB in 2000. McNally loves hard-working, blue-collar type linemen who he can teach to become better. With the Giants, he took "street free agents" D.Diehl, R.Seubert and J.Whittle and turned them into quality players while rescuing D.Ziegler and a 37 year old L.Brown from the scrap heap and developing M.Rosenthal and L.Pettigout as well. With the Bills, he has developed J.Peters from an undrafted TE into an up-and-coming LT on the verge of stardom. If Dockery is willing to listen, learn and work hard, McNally will make him better. And, McNally must like Dockery because it is unlikely that the Bills would have signed him if McNally didn't like him.

With Buffalo, Dockery will be paired with J.Peters on the left side of their offensive line and, with both signed until at least 2011, they will have plenty of time to work and grow together. The Bills have tended to run their power plays to the left side--which will take advantage of Dockery's strength and in-line blocking ability, while minimizing his weakness at pulling. Additionally, with an undersized M.Fowler (and before him T.Teague) at center, the Bills have had a difficult time dealing with the larger sized DTs and NTs that they see a lot in the AFC East--I wasn't kidding about seeing the Bills OGs getting knocked on their butts, it has happened more than a few times over the last few seasons! If Dockery can keep his feet and help neutralize those big DTs and NTs, it will be a HUGE improvement for the Bills, whose offensive line gave up something like 47 sacks last season despite throwing the ball fewer than 20 times in about a quarter of their games.

I think we all understand that Dockery isn't an All-Pro--at least not yet--and that the Bills paid a premium--and perhaps overpaid--in an inflated market to get him. But, our enthusiasm about this signing comes from the fact that just getting a "good" player to fill a position that has been a glaring weakness for so long is really exciting, especially the prospect of pairing Dockery with an emerging star in Peters. Is that worth the $ 49 million that the Bills spent on Dockery? Probably not. But, if, as you have said, Dockery is a player who has continued to get better, the odds are that Dockery will continue to improve, at least somewhat. And, having a good, improving player next to him will help Peters to continue to better as well. If both players continue to improve from where they were last season, together they will make a formidable tandem. And, that would make the money spent on Dockery well worth it to the Bills.

Obviously we will have to wait and see how this works out, but I have a feeling that, in the short term at least, both teams could end up being quite happy with the free agent signings that they have just made. With Dockery being 26 and signing a 7 year deal and Fletcher being 32 and signing a 5 year deal, however, I think the odds are that the Bills may end up being happier with the deal that they made in the longer run. But, of course, that remains to be seen.

[justasportsfan]

Fletcher is solid but not dominant. One hell of a leader and awsome in pass coverage. Easily taken out of a play by blockers but awsome sideline to sideline tackler.

Miami Hurricanes > than dolphins. I think Miami should let THe hurricanes or gators represent Miami in the NFL. They have a team while cryami doesn't.

[lordofgun]

I'm just helping spread the word...since we've been "put on notice"!!
Warned for flaming, and banned from thread.

[RedEyE]

Fletch will work well in GW's system. He works better in a defense that has a front that can clog the run. His adaptations in the Cover 2 were a little good, a little average. like others have said, his pass covreage abilities acorss the middle were well above average. His leadership qualities on and off the field exceeded expecatations, and he's a class act to the very end. Love the guy and while I hate to see him go, he just doesn't fit in Buffalo anymore.

You see our DTs are a little weak on the run and that forced Fletcher to step up his game a bit since the Bills lost the run stopping game. He was easily getting blocked out of plays and pulling tackles (and stats) well in the middle and back of the defensive zone.

Thanks for your notes on Dockery. I'd have to say that "overpaying" to get him was a little necessary. The Bills needed interior line help very, very badly and this guy will bring it to us. McNally will make certain of that. I'd much rather have a guy with proven ability and room to grow then a guy that's just average at best. He WILL beef up our OL. And I'm still not so sure the Bills overpaid him. Looking at the guaranteed money and the way FA is today, he seems right on target for our needs.

[Redskins4life234]

Lifetimesbillfan, that was a great post. Everything you all have told me, makes me feel good about the Fletcher signing. When we signed him, we knew it would be a 2 year fix before he ran out fo gas, but we want to put our defense back to 2005 form, and well, having an Averge MLB didnt help.

Now, after seeing what has happened with the two other big OL guys, and what they are getting, I'd like to change my stance a little on your guys deal with Doc. Steinbach i believe his name is, is getting 49.5 over 7. Davis, just signing with dallas is going to get over 49.5, but we dont know the exact numbers yet, over 7 years. Doc is getting 49 over 7. Of the 3, he is getting the lowest. Of the 3, I believe he is also the youngest. Of the 3, as of today, he isn't the best. Of the 3, he has the greatest protential. Of the 3, in 3 years, he will be the best. of the 3, I believe the bills got the best deal and player. The other 2, are at the top of their game, and ar eonly a little betetr then Doc. Doc will be entering his prime in a year or two.. and at his prime will be 10x better then he is now, baring any setbacks. While the money for me, is a little much, you yous, the Bills, got the best deal for the 3 big Oline players in the market.

As you guys said, Doc will do great for you guys as hes the ebst thing you have had in a while. So best of luck in 15 of your next 16 games next year, Cause well, when you play us next year, Luck aint gonna help you ;).