Sam I Am ... Not

[Halbert]

Sam won't sign

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/sports/bills/0319story1_bills.shtml

[shelby]

The Ralph sounds :angry:ing pissed!

[mush69]

Oh well get out the dinner plates and pack some pounds on the young talent we have. We can do it without him.

[Buffarama]

C'mon Ralphie, Sammy has a point. 2 million up front isn't enough. I agree with the incentives over the base salary, but maybe 3.5 up front would do it. It could be the difference.

[RedEyE]

Adams wasting everybody's time again. Too bad so sad.

[RedEyE]

I want him here, but things look aweful bleak.

[The Spaz]

Screw Sam if he can't produce or prove that he is still a run plugging machine go gets your big fat arse on the next train to baltimore so you won't sniff the playoffs. I am also sick of aof agents don't the players have there own brains. You know what Sam you are nothing but a big fat ham. anyone who talks about feeding there family when there making millions of dollars is a fraud. Go take your BS to someone with no house or no dinner table to go to everyday. Have fun on your next team until it's time to move onto another because of greed. Go Bills!

[RedEyE]

I think that Adams agent is a moron. He used the same stupid tactics with Cincy last year.

[The Spaz]

Hw was just here wasting TD's time he was here for 2 freaking weeks. Well I'm sure he feasted well on wings. I bet he didn't even hit the gym once. I hope you like moving every year because that's what's going to happen with the mentality you have. I am so ticked. Later you GLAZED HAM! Go Bills!

[venis2k1]

2 million up front is pretty weak.

[don137]

I am kind of disappointed in TD in this scenerio even though I still think he is one of the top GM's in the league. Wright and Adams is not the type of agent and player that goes for an incentive based contract. He should of known he wouldn't of signed a contract like that. In hindsight if I'd known they were going to give Adams a incentive based deal then I would of gone after Thorton first.

Who knows if Adams does not get the deal he wants elsewhere then he may come back to Buffalo later at a cheaper price, but I am not counting on it.

[venis2k1]

I would doubt it, i think adams is as good as gone.

[Ebenezer]

He's fat, out of shape and looked as mobile as a frig in the SB. Pass.

[don137]

I'm wondering if the incentives were performance based or conditioning based or both. I am not opposed to a conditioning incentives being in there because I agree with Eb that he looked out of shape last year.

[Tatonka]

i have not been so disappointed this offseason yet.. this is a huge blow... looks like we will pin our hopes on the crap that we had on our roster last year or we will be hoping the a rookie can come in and perform at pro bowl level, which is unlikely..

i will make the statement now.. bills will not be in the superbowl.. we had our best option walk away because TD is being a tight ass with a signing bonus.. for christ sakes... kickers get signing bonuses like TD offered Adams.. and adams is a premier DT..

ps.. there is no one close to his talent on the market right now..

ricky williams and the rest of the afc east rbs are cheering right now.. guess they should be, seeing as they will still be able to roll up 200 yards a game on us by running up the gut...

this is ridiculous.. less than 2mill signing bonus? if i was sam i would tell buffalo to go f themselves too.. it is not like we are the superbowl champs here.. like it should be a priviledge for sam to play here for less money.. we are a team who has never won crap.. you have to pay to get good players..

geee.. maybe we can pick up another old guy from tennesse like ford..

:puke:

[Earthquake Enyart]

More cap casulties June 1. There will be better DT's out there then.

[Tatonka]

great, lets pin our entire season on a rookie draft pick, and the HOPE that a quality guy gets cut.. there is no gaurentee that anyone worth a damn will be cut then.. i know that no team is going to cut an pro bowl DT in their prime..

we may get some old ass injured trash like ted washington

oh wait.. better yet.. maybe we will sign a chump like holiday for a ton of money that he doesnt deserve, while sam gets paid with a team that has some smarts.

[Ingtar33]

the only way to explain this weak contract offer is the reports on Adam's knees must be true... if he has a degenerative problem with them, that could explain the small, incentive laden, contract we offered…

[Halbert]

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

[Ingtar33]

BTW: the pack's web page was saying the Bill are no-longer in the running for Holliday... so he's probably out too

[venis2k1]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
BTW: the pack's web page was saying the Bill are no-longer in the running for Holliday... so he's probably out too

Best news ive heard all day.

[Tatonka]

well if td would say.. we didnt offer him crap because of his knee, then i could deal with it.. but he didnt.. so at this point, he just made an idiotic move and will save a couple dollars to spend rookies and training camp trash

[don137]

TD is protecting the Bills investment. He wanted to make sure that he didn't overspend for a player. My guess is TD was thinking if Sam plays like he did in 2001 then he will be rewarded for it. If his knee is an issue or he plays like he did in 2002 then the Bills won't get caught blowing a lot of money on a player that didn't produce.
TD won't belittle other players publicly and call players out on there injuries. That is one reason why he is respected in this league so much.

[Tatonka]

well he can just call me and tell me then.. so i feel better about the whole thing

[jchild178]

Originally posted by The Spaz yo dude that is the best comment i have ever seen about sam adams! you are 110% correct about that fat ass and i will backup all the way on your comments!!!!
Screw Sam if he can't produce or prove that he is still a run plugging machine go gets your big fat arse on the next train to baltimore so you won't sniff the playoffs. I am also sick of aof agents don't the players have there own brains. You know what Sam you are nothing but a big fat ham. anyone who talks about feeding there family when there making millions of dollars is a fraud. Go take your BS to someone with no house or no dinner table to go to everyday. Have fun on your next team until it's time to move onto another because of greed. Go Bills!

[ct bills fan]

I'm a big TD fan, and I trust him, but that was a ridiculous offer (at least the signing bonus part - we don't know the value of the incentives).

[TedMock]

I wanted Adams in Buffalo but I trust TD. Everybody was praising him a week ago, now people are saying how stupid he's being. We fans sure do turn our backs pretty fast. Even if we do have to pin hopes on a rookie, TD's drafts so far have been good. Many are predicting 7 DT's to go in the first round. I know a couple will end up busts but keep the faith.

[BillsNYC]

Originally posted by TedMock
I wanted Adams in Buffalo but I trust TD. Everybody was praising him a week ago, now people are saying how stupid he's being. We fans sure do turn our backs pretty fast.

i concur...i'm a HUGE td fan....i'd love to get a TD jersey! he did the right thing by standing firm...it shows that sam wanted to play here for $...not to win...TD will make all OK!

[Tatonka]

yeah.. lets look at the DTs that TD has drafted..

robertson
bannan
edwards

stellar record..

go ahead and throw denny in there and schobel..

that is 5 DL prospects with one turning out to be far from spectacular, but at least decent in schobel.

yeah.. i am feeling real optimistic right about now.

we needed sam adams and TD let us down with a piss poor contract offer that he deamed as "fair"

lets see how big of a td fan you are if RW is ripping us for 250 yards a game next year again.

[ArcticWildMan]

Geesh. Relax guys. Adams looked like crap in the SB and there are a lot of rumors about his knee.

TD is too smart a guy to just let a guy like Adams walk unless there was legit concern about his play and health.

This is hardly the end of the world.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Tatonka
great, lets pin our entire season on a rookie draft pick, .

I think I see why you are upset with all of this. Based on that statement, are you implying that our entire season is on the line because of 1 player? That player who was a no show at last years SB?

Adams is a good DT. Don't get me wrong but our entire season does not rest on his shoulders. His knees are strong enough to carry the entire team anyways.

[Tatonka]

yeah.. our entire defense will be based on the success of the DLine.. and the biggest weak point of the Dline is the DT..

so yeah.. the entire defense will hinge on one player..

or we could just throw bannan in there with edwards and watch spikes and fletcher get 200 tackles each, the majority of them 6 yards down field.

[The Natrix]

What the hell is up with this ripping of TD? He and the rest of his staff know a hell of a lot more about Adams condition than any of you do.

It is crazy to say that we are done for because fat ass Adams isn't coming. Absolute nonsense.

[Tatonka]

it is just me who is ripping td.. not anyone else. and i am NOT saying he is horrible..or he should be replaced.. i think he just made a VERY bad decision..

if adams is so bad.. he wouldnt have offered him anything.. he wants him here.. but he is being cheap about it.. and he cost us the best available player because of it.

[Billz_fan]

I wanted Sam here to, I thought with a good supporting cast he would be a good addition. I don't think he was worth what he was asking for though.

Now, the real question is why are the 2 sides so far apart ? TD was obviously worried about Sams production and possibly yes his knees.

Sam has and will continue to be a "gun for hire" player. Even if he was a Bill I did not see him as long term. He was good for a couple years max.

With that being said, The addition or non-addition of Sam to me really means little. Realistically I don't see this team as being ready (with or without) Sam Adams to this year run the reason , the playoffs and into the Super Bowl. It takes a year or 2 in most cases to build the chemistry have a playoff loss or two that drives the hunger and finally get there and get it done.

I just don't think Sam would have lasted here that long anyway :/

[justasportsfan]

I think TD has more authority on deciding how much Sam Adams is worth. He's dealt with Adams personally and may have seen what health problems AZdams may or may not have.

I agree with the DT being the anchor of the DL. I still remember Ricky Williams burning us for 220 yards. I'm sure TD knows that there are other options. I've trusted his decisions in the 2 years he's been here. I am not qualified to say he's made a mistake with the Sam situation yet.

[TedMock]

Bannon and Denny were rookies last year and Robinson and Edwards were 2nd year guys. Robinson came out of a Junior college and they flat out told us that he was a long term project with raw talent. Now he's suspended so I'll give you that. Edwards at times looked great and at times got killed. I fully expect that from a 2nd year player. He may never be a stud but he's at least good enough to provide relief. We have NO idea as to how these guys will end up. To say Bannon and Denny as rookies were busts is really a reach. How about TD's other draft picks? Mike Williams, Henry, Clements, Wire, Reed. His pluses far outweigh his minuses. TD's not perfect but he's definately one of the top GM's in football

[Tatonka]

i am not saying anyone is a bust.. and i am not faulting TDs ability to pick talent.. i AM specifically pointing out that we have spent 5 picks on the DEFENSIVE LINE and only one has turned out to be decent in 2 years..

the nfl is win now or rebuild man.. there are no dynasties.. if a rookie takes 3 years to develope, then you get one good year out of him before he is gone via free agency.. example see peerless price.

we have needed d line help for 2 years... and we have gotten one end out of it..

that is all i am saying..

denny and bannan may be good.. edwards NEVER looked great.. ever.. sometimes he looked like he belonged in the NFL.. most of the time he looked like he didnt..

we dont have 2 years for guys to develope.. in two years pat will be gone... henry could be gone.. jennings and sullivan could be gone.. wini could be gone..

win now or get passed by..

[The Natrix]

T, those 5 picks were meant to be projects or depth (wasn't Robertson like a 7th rounder?)

A DT at #23 will be a solid one.

[colin]

I don't know what to say about it, but I Suppose that it is an injury. Would be nice to have Sam though.

[Tatonka]

edwards was a 3rd rounder..

denny was a 2nd.. traded up for him even

schobel was a 2nd...

bannan was a 5th.

[Throne Logic]

Sam Adams had 51 tackles 6 seasons ago. Since then, he's been far below that number. In the last 3 seasons, he's had no more than 27 tackles in a season.

In contrast, Pat Williams had 84 last year and has been on a steady increase over his last 5 seasons.

I realize that stats don't tell the whole story, but hey, someone has to do the tackling. Pat seems to get his and you know that opposing teams consider him to strong part of this run defense.

There will be other options than Sam Adams.

[Tatonka]

who?

[Throne Logic]

Do you remember the Jeff Blake mania that was going on last year? Now, consider how that situation panned out after we initially waited on giving Blake a huge contract.

Trust in TD.

[Tatonka]

most people did not want blake.. and only wys didnt want bledsoe..

this is totally different.. unless you can give me the other options that seem much better than adams.

[Billz_fan]

Tatonka.......

breathing excersise...........

with me, in through the nose and out through the mouth

repeat above steps until you feel relaxed and refreshed :laughter:




:couch:

[Tatonka]

i really cant explain why this irritated me this much.. honest to god, i thought adams was a done deal and i pictured our defense being dominant, as a dominant DT can improve a whole defense.. espcially one like ours, where the main focus is to push all the traffic to the DTs in the middle.. thus the high number of tackles that williams had last year..

i guess my picture of that defense we could have had is blown.. and it is really disappointing..

i just know that no rookie is gonna come in and be awesome.. it just doesnt happen.. not even with the best of them.. (see other post on this).. ingtar agrees.. who i think knows a thing or two about rookies..

and i really dont see anyone else out there right now that compair, and i dont see anyone else major getting cut june 1st.. teams dont just cut young up and coming stud DTs .. it just doesnt happen.

[Romes]

Tatonka,

You are not looking at the situation objectively. You are taking too many of you feelings about this team get involved with your assesment. You like to mention Ingtar is on your side but you forget to mention this part of his post:


Unless there are underlying injury/health concerns T is right with this one...
http://www.billsfanzone.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13070&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

That is the point. He is a health concern. He has had issues with his knees you cannot deny that. There is and underlying health concern. The guy can't play full time. Lets not spend $3.5-4 mill on a part time guy. That is why the offer was what it was.

His market value is not what he wants to be paid. Don't get me wrong, he is the best option out there right now, but the contract offered was for a reason. TD said himself, so did GW, they thought Adams was the last peice of the puzzle. If, they trully think that I don't see why they would "low ball" him.

Yes, Adams would be an improvement for this team but lets not go spending money just because we can. Adams is the one that needs to change his perspective. Be mad at him for not signing instead of TD for the offer presented.