McCargo left practice

[M]

Jeez - I hope this turns out to be nothing!

MCCARGO EXITS PRACTICE EARLY: John McCargo was pulled out of practice early after what appeared to be a left foot injury. He was examined extensively on the sideline by trainers as its his surgically repaired foot. It can't be too serious however since he left the field under his own power.

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

[JoeMama]

The thought of Tiny Tim or Larry Tripplett getting more playing time than John McCargo worries me.

Let's hope he's a quick healer.

[Philagape]

Here we go again .... and again ..........

[Wally The Barber]

Not good news...
I hope the Bills are making plans to bring in another DT pretty soon as the position is already fairly weak by not signing Darwin Walker.
Lets hope for the best.....got me worried though!

[PECKERWOOD]

The thought of Tiny Tim or Larry Tripplett getting more playing time than John McCargo worries me.

Let's hope he's a quick healer.

Doesn't matter if he heals quickly, he'll just get injured again, and again and AGAIN...

[ZacGriffi~82]

for Opiv:

Yes, yes he is knicked up frequently.

[Mr. Miyagi]

That injury prone label is never coming off.

[PECKERWOOD]

How long until it's safe to call McCargo a bust?

[justasportsfan]

Find someone else.

[eyedog]

I blame this on the front office. This guy had injury problems in college so what do the Bills do, they actually trade up to draft the guy. Why is it this organization insists on using premium draft picks on injured and unmotivated players ?

[OpIv37]

I blame this on the front office. This guy had injury problems in college so what do the Bills do, they actually trade up to draft the guy. Why is it this organization insists on using premium draft picks on injured and unmotivated players ?

blaming the FO isn't allowed- they've only had one year so mistakes don't count.

[PECKERWOOD]

I blame this on the front office. This guy had injury problems in college so what do the Bills do, they actually trade up to draft the guy. Why is it this organization insists on using premium draft picks on injured and unmotivated players ?

I thought the move was ******ed at the time as well, and it looks like I was right. John McCargo? Who? The guy from Diehard? Ugh...

[Dr. Lecter]

Hope it is minor like it says........

[OpIv37]

That injury prone label is never coming off.

well, certainly not if he keeps getting injured... the guy's been injured TWICE in camp and it hasn't even been 3 weeks yet.

[Dr. Lecter]

blaming the FO isn't allowed- they've only had one year so mistakes don't count.

Not true, but blaming them for the past 7 years is kinda dumb.

[justasportsfan]

Not true, but blaming them for the past 7 years is kinda dumb.


:10:

[Bill Brasky]

jesus christ man, this guy reminds me of the guy that punted for us in high school. hurt every damn day.

[eyedog]

Not true, but blaming them for the past 7 years is kinda dumb.

Why is it dumb ? They have the same owner don't they ?

All it would take is for Ralph to walk into the freaking room and say the next time we use on first rd. pick on an injured player your fired.
No more Mcgahee's and McCargo's.
If you a team like the Pats coming off multiple s-bowls then you can take a flyer on those type of players.

[OpIv37]

Not true, but blaming them for the past 7 years is kinda dumb.

oh, no,

I've been told I can't blame them for the Darwin Walker trade debacle, trading Spikes, Andre Davis, Tutan Reyes, Robert Royal, Peerless price, trading up for McCargo, not addressing the DL this year, or pretty much anything else.

[OpIv37]

Not true, but blaming them for the past 7 years is kinda dumb.

the last 7 years happened the Bills, regardless of who the GM was. And as a fan, I'm pissed and frustrated about it. I'm not willing to go "new GM- doesn't matter" because it DOES matter.

[Meathead]

panic much

[DMBcrew36]

Wow, McCargo is fragile.

[eyedog]

panic much

Well when your down to Triplett, Anderson, and Williams there is some concern.
Two of them stink and one is average.

[PECKERWOOD]

I remember Op posting a comment saying something along the lines of: You could post a thread saying that Tim Anderson is a bust and blah blah and you would get rep out the ass for it but if you were to post a thread bashing anyone else on the team, you would most likely have a handful of people giving you hard time. It seems as if McCargo is entering the same ranks as Anderson, which isn't good. The label is fair, but not good.

[Dr. Lecter]

oh, no,

I've been told I can't blame them for the Darwin Walker trade debacle, trading Spikes, Andre Davis, Tutan Reyes, Robert Royal, Peerless price, trading up for McCargo, not addressing the DL this year, or pretty much anything else.

Walker was a mess up, although if they get a 4th it turned out OK.
Spikes? Bad fit here and did not want to be here.
Davis? Why was he a mistake? A 5th/6th WR who played for the veteran minimum. He is a depth guy. When you say things like this is when we ask you about a roster of All-pros. He was neither a mistake or a good signing.
Reyes? Yep.
Royal? He is average. Nothing more nothing less. It might help him if he can leave the backfield.
Price? Average, leaning on bad.
D-Line? We agree to disagree on how bad they were this year. To you, only the bad stats count for anything. Pass D ranking? Who cares? Scoring defense? Who cares. The only one that matters is run defense.


Problem is, you fail to ever acknowledge event the smallest positive and dwell on the negatives.

The teams was not 4-12 this year.

[PECKERWOOD]

Walker was a mess up, although if they get a 4th it turned out OK.
Spikes? Bad fit here and did not want to be here.
Davis? Why was he a mistake? A 5th/6th WR who played for the veteran minimum. He is a depth guy. When you say things like this is when we ask you about a roster of All-pros. He was neither a mistake or a good signing.
Reyes? Yep.
Royal? He is average. Nothing more nothing less. It might help him if he can leave the backfield.
Price? Average, leaning on bad.
D-Line? We agree to disagree on how bad they were this year. To you, only the bad stats count for anything. Pass D ranking? Who cares? Scoring defense? Who cares. The only one that matters is run defense.


Problem is, you fail to ever acknowledge event the smallest positive and dwell on the negatives.

The teams was not 4-12 this year.


Last I checked, we haven't won a playoff game since 1995. What is so positive about that Lecter? The only positive thing I can draw from that is the fact that we are still somehow in Buffalo.

[Dr. Lecter]

the last 7 years happened the Bills, regardless of who the GM was. And as a fan, I'm pissed and frustrated about it. I'm not willing to go "new GM- doesn't matter" because it DOES matter.

So it is Marv's fault?

He is trying to fix the mess you *****ed about and now you ***** about him fixing it.

They are trying to build a team and have started from scratch.

[mysticsoto]

Why is it dumb ? They have the same owner don't they ?

All it would take is for Ralph to walk into the freaking room and say the next time we use on first rd. pick on an injured player your fired.
No more Mcgahee's and McCargo's.
If you a team like the Pats coming off multiple s-bowls then you can take a flyer on those type of players.
Yeah...maybe Ralph Wilson should have gotten involved in something he knows nothing about long ago...then we would have been stuck with mediocrity at best throughout the 90s and never would have drafted Thurman Thomas to begin with. :rolleyes:

[Dr. Lecter]

Last I checked, we haven't won a playoff game since 1995. What is so positive about that Lecter? The only positive thing I can draw from that is the fact that we are still somehow in Buffalo.

What I see positive is a GM and staff bulding a team with direction.

The years 1995-2005 do not fall on Marv and crew. They fall on TD and JB.

I don't how else to say it.

[OpIv37]

panic much

the guy had the same foot injury two years in a row, two off-season surgeries, and this is his second injury in the 3 weeks of camp.

We already lost Hargrove- if McCargo can't stay healthy (as evidence so far suggests he can't), our DT's are Anderson, Tripplett, Williams and Jefferson. Our DE's are Schobel, Kelsay, Denney and... I don't know, I guess we'd have to keep Eric Powell or something.

If you're not panicking, I don't know what to tell you. That has disaster written all over it.

[Dr. Lecter]

BTW, before we freak out about this I hope everybody remembers the panic mode people went into when JP missed ONE day of practice.

[Dr. Lecter]

the guy had the same foot injury two years in a row, two off-season surgeries, and this is his second injury in the 3 weeks of camp.

We already lost Hargrove- if McCargo can't stay healthy (as evidence so far suggests he can't), our DT's are Anderson, Tripplett, Williams and Jefferson. Our DE's are Schobel, Kelsay, Denney and... I don't know, I guess we'd have to keep Eric Powell or something.

If you're not panicking, I don't know what to tell you. That has disaster written all over it.

Can we wait and see if he is injured?

Remember day 1 and how you were convinced JP was "injured"?

[OpIv37]

So it is Marv's fault?

He is trying to fix the mess you *****ed about and now you ***** about him fixing it.

They are trying to build a team and have started from scratch.

"Trying to fix" and "actually fixing" are not the same thing.

At what point did "different" and "better" become the same thing?

I don't like the way he's fixing it and I don't like how long it's taking. Like I said, you can start your "losing clock" over at the start of Marv's tenure. As for me and the rest of the sports world, the clock starts when we started losing, which was that ****ing travesty of a playoff game in 1999.

[DraftBoy]

So it is Marv's fault?

He is trying to fix the mess you *****ed about and now you ***** about him fixing it.

They are trying to build a team and have started from scratch.

I agree there is too much dwelling on the smallest of negatives while ignoring the posistives however Marv did not start from scratch, Evans, Losman, Peters, Schoebel, Moorman were all here already before him,

[OpIv37]

Can we wait and see if he is injured?

Remember day 1 and how you were convinced JP was "injured"?

yeah, he's not injured- he must have left the field because it had been 36 whole hours since he'd seen the medical staff and he was starting to miss those guys.

Do you have any confidence that this guy can stay on the field? If so, why? History shows he can't. This isn't a player who's normally healthy missing a portion of a practice. This is a guy with a long history of injuries leaving the field yet again. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.

[JoeMama]

Last I checked, we haven't won a playoff game since 1995. What is so positive about that Lecter? The only positive thing I can draw from that is the fact that we are still somehow in Buffalo.

To Marv's credit, he was responsible for our most recent playoff victory in 1995.

Which seems like a lifetime ago now.

[Dr. Lecter]

"Trying to fix" and "actually fixing" are not the same thing.

At what point did "different" and "better" become the same thing?

I don't like the way he's fixing it and I don't like how long it's taking. Like I said, you can start your "losing clock" over at the start of Marv's tenure. As for me and the rest of the sports world, the clock starts when we started losing, which was that ****ing travesty of a playoff game in 1999.

How long is too long?

One season? A season the team improved (at least in W-L record)?

So is your solution to fold the team? Hire and fire a GM/coach every year?

In the end Marv has had ONE SEASON under his belt. And the team GOT BETTER THAT ONE SEASON. Their record was better.

Shoudl have he been fired after last season for not making the playoffs?

[raphael120]

BIG FAT STINKIN BUST!





He hasn't looked good all camp, AND he's injured all the time! At this point he is WORSE than Tim Anderson because at least Anderson can suck while keeping injury free!

[PECKERWOOD]

What I see positive is a GM and staff bulding a team with direction.

The years 1995-2005 do not fall on Marv and crew. They fall on TD and JB.

I don't how else to say it.

It doesn't matter who gets the blame, it's about the product that our owner has been putting out on the field for us. I pay good money for tickets and other memorobilia and I've devoted alot of time to this team, this site, going to games and spending money on jerseys and video games and I have a right to ***** about a product that hasn't been satisfactory lately.

[duhbilz]

Some people just aren't cut out for the Pros!

[justasportsfan]

So it is Marv's fault?

.
that's what he's saying. Keep up will ya :couch:

[Dr. Lecter]

It doesn't matter who gets the blame, it's about the product that our owner has been putting out on the field for us. I pay good money for tickets and other memorobilia and I've devoted alot of time to this team, this site, going to games and spending money on jerseys and video games and I have a right to ***** about a product that hasn't been satisfactory lately.

Nobody said you don't have the right.

Assuming there is no chance this team is improving is silly though.

Me? They might be worse this year. But they also might be better.

[eyedog]

Yeah...maybe Ralph Wilson should have gotten involved in something he knows nothing about long ago...then we would have been stuck with mediocrity at best throughout the 90s and never would have drafted Thurman Thomas to begin with. :rolleyes:


It's really not that difficult. "No first round draft picks on college players coming off injuries." Simple really.
Unless we won the Super Bowl the previous season.

[Philagape]

My *****ing clock started over when we changed front offices.

[DraftBoy]

My *****ing clock started over when we changed front offices.

Agreed

[justasportsfan]

"Trying to fix" and "actually fixing" are not the same thing.

.
how can he have fixed the last 7 years when he wasn't here? Oh I get it, he's suppose to fix it in 1 season. That's realistic :coocoo:

[ParanoidAndroid]

Do we know anything about this injury yet? Could it be that he got stepped on or something of that nature and they're being cautious?

[raphael120]

At this point we should trade McCargo for some ****ing slim fast for Tim Anderson.

[duhbilz]

I know there two different positions, but this may prevent the release of Hargrove.

[PECKERWOOD]

Nobody said you don't have the right.

Assuming there is no chance this team is improving is silly though.

Me? They might be worse this year. But they also might be better.

I just don't like McCargo. I'm hoping there is an outside chance that we can bring somebody else in here to replace him. I would not be disappointed at all if we were to cut our losses.

[Bill Brasky]

Well when your down to Triplett, Anderson, and Williams there is some concern.
Two of them stink and one is average.

Yeah, added to the fact that the guy can't seem to get out of bed for breakfast without injuring himself.

[Dr. Lecter]

I just don't like McCargo. I'm hoping there is an outside chance that we can bring somebody else in here to replace him. I would not be disappointed at all if we were to cut our losses.

After one season? At one of the most difficult to learn positions?

Way too early.

[justasportsfan]

My *****ing clock started over when we changed front offices.


***** now and apologize later?


Op said in another thread we are not far with expectations. We just approach it in a different manner.

I just don't want to be in the same wagon as him in this journey " are we there yet?" 100000000 X .

[raphael120]

After one season? At one of the most difficult to learn positions?

Way too early.

Dude, WTF ? Kyle Williams is doing pretty damn well and he was a late round pick.

Keep coming up with excuses man, is he your secret lover or something, i dont understand the droves of people making excuse after excuse for this guy.

[eyedog]

I know there two different positions, but this may prevent the release of Hargrove.


How the heck can they release him, they have nobody left to speak of to begin with.

[PECKERWOOD]

After one season? At one of the most difficult to learn positions?

Way too early.

I just have a feeling that he is a bust. He has done nothing since coming to Buffalo and I hated this pick when we drafted him. So far my gut has been right the whole way. It's obvious this guy has NO toughness or motivation. Hell, Kyle Williams a 5th round pick has completely outplayed him so far. What a complete disappointment McCargo has been. What's next? McCargo got his dork caught in his zipper while using the bathroom today, looks like he will miss a couple more days of training camp. He needs to spend less time getting manicures and more time practicing on the field, it's the only way he'll get better. He needs to suck it up and play through minor injuries, period.

[mysticsoto]

It's really not that difficult. "No first round draft picks on college players coming off injuries." Simple really.
Unless we won the Super Bowl the previous season.

If they hadn't moved up to draft him at the end of the 1st rd, somebody else was about to take him. Then people would be complaining here that we didn't even try to get a good DT. More *****ing would ensue...it's a lose-lose for the FO. They pick players that they think will fit the system - thankfully, they do not cater to the faint-hearted overanxious alarmists around here...

[Dr. Lecter]

Dude, WTF ? Kyle Williams is doing pretty damn well and he was a late round pick.

Keep coming up with excuses man, is he your secret lover or something, i dont understand the droves of people making excuse after excuse for this guy.

Yep. We are a couple. You caught us.

DT's usually take time to develop. Especially those that come out early.

He might be a bust. He might not be.

Do you remember Eric Moulds first two seasons?

[RedEyE]

So (according to some on this board) it's Ok for Marv to be credited for drafting a player like Poz in the 2nd round, but it's taboo to assume he doesn't some how deserve to share the blame in trading up to draft McCargo when his inflictions had already been advertised?

[eyedog]

If they hadn't moved up to draft him at the end of the 1st rd, somebody else was about to take him. Then people would be complaining here that we didn't even try to get a good DT. More *****ing would ensue...it's a lose-lose for the FO. They pick players that they think will fit the system - thankfully, they do not cater to the faint-hearted overanxious alarmists around here...

You've hit on a whole other topic.

IMO they f-ed up that draft when they took Whitner over Ngata. they then could have done their trade up for Mangold. but lets not go there.

[DraftBoy]

If they hadn't moved up to draft him at the end of the 1st rd, somebody else was about to take him. Then people would be complaining here that we didn't even try to get a good DT. More *****ing would ensue...it's a lose-lose for the FO. They pick players that they think will fit the system - thankfully, they do not cater to the faint-hearted overanxious alarmists around here...


Lets not go that far, many good DT's were taken after McCargo and there were some this year too. Suffice it to say people are frustrated bc McCargo hasnt proved he's worth either a 1st round pick, or trading up to do so.

[raphael120]

Yep. We are a couple. You caught us.

DT's usually take time to develop. Especially those that come out early.

He might be a bust. He might not be.

Do you remember Eric Moulds first two seasons?

Oh, here's defense number 2, comparing the current player to a past player. Eric Moulds wasn't injured perrenailly and Eric Moulds didnt have to push huge 300 pound men out of the way, and Eric Moulds wasn't part of a 28th ranked rushing D.

I could go on and on.

Here;s another thing. The sad part is that he's been injured twice already in camp, and how many times have we had padded practice? Like 3? He's more fragile than fine china.

[DraftBoy]

You've hit on a whole other topic.

IMO they f-ed up that draft when they took Whitner over Ngata. they then could have done their trade up for Mangold. but lets not go there.


So instead of *****ing about DT play we could ***** about bad S play, which imo is much more important in a Cover 2 scheme. Hence the reason our pass D is so good.

[raphael120]

So instead of *****ing about DT play we could ***** about bad S play, which imo is much more important in a Cover 2 scheme. Hence the reason our pass D is so good.

Doesn't matter if you have awesome S's when the opponent is gashing you on the ground.

[justasportsfan]

:movie:

[eyedog]

So instead of *****ing about DT play we could ***** about bad S play, which imo is much more important in a Cover 2 scheme. Hence the reason our pass D is so good.

Well if teams run the ball down your throat the whole game you won't have to worry about that pass defense too much now will you.

you build inside out. something the bills have yet to understand.

[OpIv37]

If they hadn't moved up to draft him at the end of the 1st rd, somebody else was about to take him. Then people would be complaining here that we didn't even try to get a good DT. More *****ing would ensue...it's a lose-lose for the FO. They pick players that they think will fit the system - thankfully, they do not cater to the faint-hearted overanxious alarmists around here...

Well, not necessarily lose-lose- if they found a DT who could stay on the field and actually play, we wouldn't be *****ing. That's their job- put the right players on the field. And until they do that, we have every right to *****.

BTW, how does being concerned about a position that has sucked for 3 years and a player who hasn't been able to stay on the field for two years (dating back to his college career) make one an "alarmist"? The reasons for concern with both McCargo and the DL are well established.

[DraftBoy]

Doesn't matter if you have awesome S's when the opponent is gashing you on the ground.

I can say the same thing about having awesome DT's if your getting burned deep, and then you'll counter with good DT's should provide pass rush and less time for QB to throw deep, and Ill come back with using the safeties properly by putting 8 or 9 in the box should help on the Run D, but lets save us both the time.

[DraftBoy]

Well if teams run the ball down your throat the whole game you won't have to worry about that pass defense too much now will you.

you build inside out. something the bills have yet to understand.

See post above

[OpIv37]

So instead of *****ing about DT play we could ***** about bad S play, which imo is much more important in a Cover 2 scheme. Hence the reason our pass D is so good.

yeah, pass D looked great on Friday :rolleyes:

What good is pass D when you don't have the offense or the run D to force teams to pass?

[PECKERWOOD]

Jeez - I hope this turns out to be nothing!

MCCARGO EXITS PRACTICE EARLY: John McCargo was pulled out of practice early after what appeared to be a left foot injury. He was examined extensively on the sideline by trainers as its his surgically repaired foot. It can't be too serious however since he left the field under his own power.

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

LOOK AT THE **** STORM YOU STARTED! 4 PAGES LATER... j/p

[njsue]

He seems like a bust!

[DraftBoy]

yeah, pass D looked great on Friday :rolleyes:

What good is pass D when you don't have the offense or the run D to force teams to pass?


Look up

[eyedog]

See post above


good safties are easier to find then good d-lineman.

[justasportsfan]

LOOK AT THE **** STORM YOU STARTED! 4 PAGES LATER... j/p
:movie:

[OpIv37]

Yep. We are a couple. You caught us.

DT's usually take time to develop. Especially those that come out early.

He might be a bust. He might not be.

Do you remember Eric Moulds first two seasons?

so DT's take time to develop.

What are we supposed to do in that time? Let other teams shove the ball down our throats? Pray that Schobel can consistently beat double teams in the pass rush.

Here's a thought- since it's a ROTATIONAL player, have proven players to rotate in while the rookies develop. Don't just resign to sucking until they develop (especially since they may not develop).

Also, he's not going to develop if he can't stay on the field. So far, he can't stay on the field. I'll let you make the logical inference from those two statements.

[DraftBoy]

good safties are easier to find then good d-lineman.


Oh come on, now your reaching for things, you have nothing to even begin to backup that statement, in fact if you look at draft history you will see way more DT's taken higher than S, in fact the highest a S has ever gone I think was Roy Williams to Dallas, so based on that I think S are harder to find.

[BlackMetalNinja]

jesus christ man, this guy reminds me of the guy that punted for us in high school. hurt every damn day.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:rofl: :lmao:

Tha Biggie! He got hurt about 2384 times every basketball season too. Maybe if he didn't look like a bowling ball...

[eyedog]

Oh come on, now your reaching for things, you have nothing to even begin to backup that statement, in fact if you look at draft history you will see way more DT's taken higher than S, in fact the highest a S has ever gone I think was Roy Williams to Dallas, so based on that I think S are harder to find.

Damn Draftboy you are brilliant. Thanks for proving my point.

[mysticsoto]

Lets not go that far, many good DT's were taken after McCargo and there were some this year too. Suffice it to say people are frustrated bc McCargo hasnt proved he's worth either a 1st round pick, or trading up to do so.

I don't think many DTs after McCargo have proven themselves as "great" yet...much less any taken this year. We don't know that McCargo isn't going to be able to recover and play - nor do we know at what level he will end up playing. Let's wait and see before we jump the gun...

[mysticsoto]

Doesn't matter if you have awesome S's when the opponent is gashing you on the ground.

It doesn't matter that you have awesome run stoppers up front if you can't stop them from gashing you in the air. Otherwise the era of PW and SA would have taken us to the superbowl...

[DraftBoy]

Damn Draftboy you are brilliant. Thanks for proving my point.

Point being?

[OpIv37]

I don't think many DTs after McCargo have proven themselves as "great" yet...much less any taken this year. We don't know that McCargo isn't going to be able to recover and play - nor do we know at what level he will end up playing. Let's wait and see before we jump the gun...

we should wait and see like we did with Mike Williams and Rob Johnson? Good idea.

[Wally The Barber]

I would have to say there is no sense in blaming anyone at this point!
I will be happy to blame someone should the Bills do nothing to correct the problem and bring in atleast 2 players as we lost Darwin Walker too!
The players are available and Tank Johnson is not a good option but there are other options and you guys already who they are!

[justasportsfan]

Injury prone? seems like it. Bust? not enough data.

[mysticsoto]

Well, not necessarily lose-lose- if they found a DT who could stay on the field and actually play, we wouldn't be *****ing. That's their job- put the right players on the field. And until they do that, we have every right to *****.

BTW, how does being concerned about a position that has sucked for 3 years and a player who hasn't been able to stay on the field for two years (dating back to his college career) make one an "alarmist"? The reasons for concern with both McCargo and the DL are well established.

As you know, drafting is a lottery. The FO aren't fortune-telling glass bowl waxers like our resident Ms. Cleo...

And by the way, worrying about DT doesn't make you an alarmist. Panicing over any little thing does - like when you were whining and panicing about JP missing his 1st day @TC...

[eyedog]

Point being?

Take your time and fiqure it out.

[OpIv37]

It doesn't matter that you have awesome run stoppers up front if you can't stop them from gashing you in the air. Otherwise the era of PW and SA would have taken us to the superbowl...

actually it works the opposite- most teams use the run to set up the pass.

[justasportsfan]

like when you were whining and panicing about JP missing his 1st day @TC...


can of worms..... :movie:

[OpIv37]

As you know, drafting is a lottery. The FO aren't fortune-telling glass bowl waxers like our resident Ms. Cleo...

And by the way, worrying about DT doesn't make you an alarmist. Panicing over any little thing does - like when you were whining and panicing about JP missing his 1st day @TC...

And now it all becomes clear. One of the big reasons we sucked during the TD years was the inability to draft. Well.....

Drafting is not a crystal ball but it doesn't take Ms Cleo to figure out that a team with so many needs shouldn't spend two first day picks on a guy with a history of injury.

And regardless of my personal status as an alarmist, there is legitimate reason for concern here, so me whining about JP is irrelevant.

[mysticsoto]

we should wait and see like we did with Mike Williams and Rob Johnson? Good idea.

Or maybe like Pat Williams who developed. Or maybe like Jason Peters who developed...

[eyedog]

Take your time and fiqure it out.

Ok times up.

The exact reason all the d-lineman get drafted first is because they are harder to find.

[Dr. Lecter]

Or maybe like Pat Williams who developed. Or maybe like Jason Peters who developed...

Or Crowell. Or Moulds. Or JP.

[OpIv37]

Or maybe like Pat Williams who developed. Or maybe like Jason Peters who developed...

I don't remember Pat Williams' development but Jason Peters NEVER had close to as many question marks about him as McCargo. In fact, the guy pretty much impressed from Day 1, other than one or two mental mistakes. . So find a better example.

[justasportsfan]

And now it all becomes clear. One of the big reasons we sucked during the TD years was the inability to draft. Well.....

.


I thought TD drafted well enough. It's his coaches who couldn't piece everything together.

It actually takes a few year to judge a draft. But McCargo is already a bust. :up:

[justasportsfan]

Or Crowell. Or Moulds. Or JP.


JP hasn't developed yet.

[DraftBoy]

I don't think many DTs after McCargo have proven themselves as "great" yet...much less any taken this year. We don't know that McCargo isn't going to be able to recover and play - nor do we know at what level he will end up playing. Let's wait and see before we jump the gun...


Lets play a game called how many DT's you would rather have from the 06 draft instead of McCargo.

Dusty Dvoracek
Gabe Watson
Domata Petko
Barry Cofield
Kyle Williams
Orien Harris
Anthony Montgomery
Jesse Maholena
Jonathan Lewis
Babatunde Oshinowo
Montavius Stanley
Johnny Jolly
Kedric Golston
LaJuan Ramsey
Le Kevin Smith
Fred Evans
Titus Adams
Chase Page
Rodrique Wright

Simply based on their skill sets there are 5 or 6 of these guys I would of taken over McCargo coming out and probably 4 or 5 of them who have so far out performed McCargo. In a year where 22 DT's were taken and only 20 after John to have 1/4 of those out perform you is not what I would call being worth your pick.

[mysticsoto]

And now it all becomes clear. One of the big reasons we sucked during the TD years was the inability to draft. Well.....

Drafting is not a crystal ball but it doesn't take Ms Cleo to figure out that a team with so many needs shouldn't spend two first day picks on a guy with a history of injury.

And regardless of my personal status as an alarmist, there is legitimate reason for concern here, so me whining about JP is irrelevant.

History? He'd been hurt once...you can easily talk in hindsight all you want, but next year, I want you to pick a player at the point right before the Bills have to pick and then let's keep track and see how well your players chosen end up doing the following years. If your players don't pan out...I'm going to ***** me a storm!!!

[OpIv37]

I thought TD drafted well enough. It's his coaches who couldn't piece everything together.

It actually takes a few year to judge a draft. But McCargo is already a bust. :up:

It certainly looks like he's a bust now. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

But that's not really the point. The point is that we desperately need help on the DL and McCargo isn't providing it. So do we sit around and hope the guy can overcome the injury problems and that he's not the bust he appears to be at the moment, or do we do something about it?

Well, since you're the guy who thinks pre-season is too early to evaluate players, I've got a pretty good guess what your answer will be....

[DraftBoy]

Ok times up.

The exact reason all the d-lineman get drafted first is because they are harder to find.


Look at the numbers, your way off

[justasportsfan]

If McCArgo misses another regular season game, he's injury prone.


Otherwise, we're still in preseason.

[BlackMetalNinja]

:monkeyp:

Mine went further!!!!

[raphael120]

Holy crap guys, it must be something in the buffalo water that stunts brain growth.

When was Crowell injury prone? Moulds? JP? Kelly? Pat Williams? Jason Peters?

All of these players showed they could play. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM were injury prone. McCargo hasn't shown jack squat even when he was healthy! If your going to compare this guy to a past Bill, try Villareal

[mysticsoto]

I don't remember Pat Williams' development but Jason Peters NEVER had close to as many question marks about him as McCargo. In fact, the guy pretty much impressed from Day 1, other than one or two mental mistakes. . So find a better example.

Hah! Jason Peters had all kinds of question marks - which is why he ended up going undrafted! What a ridiculous thing to say...nobody knew where to put him...and so nobody ended up drafting him! Had we drafted him this year, you would have been *****ing about drafting an oversized TE...

[eyedog]

At this point I'll take any of them who doesn't have a history of injury and surgery and can stay on the field. That's the point.

[OpIv37]

History? He'd been hurt once...you can easily talk in hindsight all you want, but next year, I want you to pick a player at the point right before the Bills have to pick and then let's keep track and see how well your players chosen end up doing the following years. If your players don't pan out...I'm going to ***** me a storm!!!

Once? wtf are you talking about? this is the 2nd time he's been hurt in THIS YEAR'S TRAINING CAMP. He had TWO offseason surgeries and had the SAME injury in college the year before.

wow, are you really this dense? You're seeing what you want to see. This guy has a history of injury and you're just pretending that it didn't happen.

[justasportsfan]

It certainly looks like he's a bust now. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.



Well, since you're the guy who thinks pre-season is too early to evaluate players, I've got a pretty good guess what your answer will be....

Based on offseason he's injury prone. Based on regular season (he's been injured once in the NFL) I'll wait when it comes.

You can't call someone a BUST after 1 year. That's stupid.

[DraftBoy]

If McCArgo misses another regular season game, he's injury prone.


Otherwise, we're still in preseason.


So he can miss all the rest of the preseason games getting knicked up, but he's not injury prone till he missed a regular season game? So what is he before, unlucky?

[OpIv37]

Hah! Jason Peters had all kinds of question marks - which is why he ended up going undrafted! What a ridiculous thing to say...nobody knew where to put him...and so nobody ended up drafting him! Had we drafted him this year, you would have been *****ing about drafting an oversized TE...

he was signed as a UDFA and ever since he came to the team, he looked good- the debate was over which position would be most useful to the team. With McCargo, the debate is over whether or not he can help at all. Different scenario entirely.

Oh, btw, UDFA's are just a little cheaper and have slightly lower expectations than first round draft picks, but that's another distinction you won't understand.

[mysticsoto]

And now it all becomes clear. One of the big reasons we sucked during the TD years was the inability to draft. Well.....

Drafting is not a crystal ball but it doesn't take Ms Cleo to figure out that a team with so many needs shouldn't spend two first day picks on a guy with a history of injury.

And regardless of my personal status as an alarmist, there is legitimate reason for concern here, so me whining about JP is irrelevant.

At last! An admission that he is an alarmist...

[justasportsfan]

So he can miss all the rest of the preseason games getting knicked up, but he's not injury prone till he missed a regular season game? So what is he before, unlucky?


vexed ..... cursed. I think he might be related to Bruce and Brandon...Lee

[eyedog]

Look at the numbers, your way off


Really. Go back the last ten years and tell me how many safties and d-lineman were drafted in the top ten.

[mysticsoto]

he was signed as a UDFA and ever since he came to the team, he looked good- the debate was over which position would be most useful to the team. With McCargo, the debate is over whether or not he can help at all. Different scenario entirely.

Oh, btw, UDFA's are just a little cheaper and have slightly lower expectations than first round draft picks, but that's another distinction you won't understand.

The point I answered was on whether a player (even a lowly UDFA) is able to develop (just like PW did). Thanks for proving my point...

[OpIv37]

At last! An admission that he is an alarmist...

and what does that make you? You're not exactly the happy medium- nothing ever seems to bother you about this team- you act like everything will work out ok, but it NEVER does.

Just keep saying "let's wait and see" and keep refusing to make a prediction until it's too late.

[raphael120]

At last! An admission that he is an alarmist...

Wow you discovered one fact but overlook all the rest.

I'd rather be an alarmist than a oblivious-ist. Yeah, that's a word. haha.

[justasportsfan]

Hah! Jason Peters had all kinds of question marks - which is why he ended up going undrafted! ..


to think that Op depended on scouts and college reports. Since he wasn't drafted, he did have numerous question marks.

[DraftBoy]

Really. Go back the last ten years and tell me how many safties and d-lineman were drafted in the top ten.


Your point you do the numbers, but dont limit it to top ten to fit your point, do the whole draft all 7 rounds.

[OpIv37]

The point I answered was on whether a player (even a lowly UDFA) is able to develop (just like PW did). Thanks for proving my point...

your point is not the relevant issue here.

Jason Peters came to the team and started playing well almost immediately, as a cheap UDFA.

McCargo came to the team at the cost of 2 first day draft picks, and has had question marks ever since he got here.

UDFA's are expected to develop, first round draft picks are expected to perform. Yeah, they're not going to perform 100% right away, but a year into their careers, the word "bust" shouldn't even be a consideration. For McCargo, it is.

[justasportsfan]

Your point you do the numbers, but dont limit it to top ten to fit your point, do the whole draft all 7 rounds.
:coocoo:

[mysticsoto]

Once? wtf are you talking about? this is the 2nd time he's been hurt in THIS YEAR'S TRAINING CAMP. He had TWO offseason surgeries and had the SAME injury in college the year before.

wow, are you really this dense? You're seeing what you want to see. This guy has a history of injury and you're just pretending that it didn't happen.

I'm talking about before the draft...read the context my post is in. You said we drafted someone with a history of injuries. I replied and said What history of injuries? At the time he'd been hurt once!

Jesus Christ...it's like talking to a little child. Do you need me to use sock puppets to explain further???

[justasportsfan]

wow , this thread gained more yards than our starting RB's.

[OpIv37]

I'm talking about before the draft...read the context my post is in. You said we drafted someone with a history of injuries. I replied and said What history of injuries? At the time he'd been hurt once!

Jesus Christ...it's like talking to a little child. Do you need me to use sock puppets to explain further???

and the injury he had is one that's likely to recur, hence, he's not worth two first day draft picks to a team coming off a 6-10 season. Apparently you and the FO both need the sock puppets to understand that one.

[DraftBoy]

:coocoo:


You think Im wrong, I encourage you to do the work also and see what it shows.

[DraftBoy]

wow , this thread gained more yards than our starting RB's.

We should get signed!

[justasportsfan]

You think Im wrong, I encourage you to do the work also and see what it shows.

Didn't mean to make it sound like you're wrong. It would be :coocoo: for anyone togo back in time and go through 7 rds. of the draft 1 year after .

But hey, if eyedog's up to it. ... I should just :movie:

[justasportsfan]

We should get signed!


Not you. OP and Myself.

[DraftBoy]

Not you. OP and Myself.


:sadwalk:

[DraftBoy]

Didn't mean to make it sound like you're wrong. It would be :coocoo: for anyone togo back in time and go through 7 rds. of the draft 1 year after .

But hey, if eyedog's up to it. ... I should just :movie:


I agree but if he wants to do the work and he ends up right, ill admit Im wrong

[mysticsoto]

and what does that make you? You're not exactly the happy medium- nothing ever seems to bother you about this team- you act like everything will work out ok, but it NEVER does.

Just keep saying "let's wait and see" and keep refusing to make a prediction until it's too late.

Why does a prediction need to be made?

I go to the games, or I watch them on TV and I enjoy them. I don't sit at home crying over what they might play like...if they play bad, I'll acknowledge it and express what they may need to do to get better. But I will let them play first!

Remember a few years ago that ass whooping we gave NE. How many people jumped on the bandwagon that we were going to be super fantastic that season...and then look what happened? It goes both ways...and you are certainly at the opposite end of that spectrum.

[justasportsfan]

I agree but if he wants to do the work and he ends up right, ill admit Im wrong


:movie:

[eyedog]

Your point you do the numbers, but dont limit it to top ten to fit your point, do the whole draft all 7 rounds.


Really, what don't you understand about drafting good d-lineman before a good safety. your supposed to know college football and the draft and you don't even understand that basic concept.

[DraftBoy]

Really, what don't you understand about drafting good d-lineman before a good safety. your supposed to know college football and the draft and you don't even understand that basic concept.


This isnt about drafting, its about football philosophy and the system by which you run, its not about just drafting players, it about so much more above that.

[justasportsfan]

and what does that make you? You're not exactly the happy medium- nothing ever seems to bother you about this team- you act like everything will work out ok, but it NEVER does.

Just keep saying "let's wait and see" and keep refusing to make a prediction until it's too late.

I agree with OP.


:lolpoint: Mystic.

[DraftBoy]

I agree with OP.




Thats going in the sig

[justasportsfan]

Really, what don't you understand about drafting good d-lineman before a good safety. .


I agree.

:movie:

[justasportsfan]

Remember a few years ago that ass whooping we gave NE. How many people jumped on the bandwagon that we were going to be super fantastic that season...and then look what happened? It goes both ways...and you are certainly at the opposite end of that spectrum.


I agree with mystic

:lolpoint: OP

[OpIv37]

Why does a prediction need to be made?

I go to the games, or I watch them on TV and I enjoy them. I don't sit at home crying over what they might play like...if they play bad, I'll acknowledge it and express what they may need to do to get better. But I will let them play first!

Remember a few years ago that ass whooping we gave NE. How many people jumped on the bandwagon that we were going to be super fantastic that season...and then look what happened? It goes both ways...and you are certainly at the opposite end of that spectrum.

if you're gonna judge everyone else's prediction, seems only fitting that you should make one of your own.

All you ever do is criticize what I say and defend the team or certain players when there is no defense.

The FO spent two first-day draft picks and a lot of money on a guy who can't stay on the field and looks pretty mediocre when he is on the field, and has failed to properly address the DL for two seasons.

And you're defending it. I just don't ****ing get it. I thought you were a fan and I thought all fans wanted the team to win.

[justasportsfan]

:lolpoint:
Thats going in the sig

[mysticsoto]

and the injury he had is one that's likely to recur, hence, he's not worth two first day draft picks to a team coming off a 6-10 season. Apparently you and the FO both need the sock puppets to understand that one.

"Wow Op...you have such brilliant hindsight. How do you develop such brilliant hindsight? Your hindsight is off the charts... Thanks for admitting you are an alarmist. That explains more than anything else I can say..."


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/355316094_5b3bfb725b.jpg?v=0

[eyedog]

This isnt about drafting, its about football philosophy and the system by which you run, its not about just drafting players, it about so much more above that.

That's another issue, their system. This tampa-2 system works great if you can play with the lead, ala colts, and come after the passer, but get behind and we are in trouble.

As for looking up d-lineman compaered to safties, please. I shouldn't even have to be discussing it.

[mysticsoto]

if you're gonna judge everyone else's prediction, seems only fitting that you should make one of your own.

All you ever do is criticize what I say and defend the team or certain players when there is no defense.

The FO spent two first-day draft picks and a lot of money on a guy who can't stay on the field and looks pretty mediocre when he is on the field, and has failed to properly address the DL for two seasons.

And you're defending it. I just don't ****ing get it. I thought you were a fan and I thought all fans wanted the team to win.

On the contrary, I am not making any judgements at all until the full product is on the field. You are the one who is trying to make a full judgement on a partial product...

[OpIv37]

"Wow Op...you have such brilliant hindsight. How do you develop such brilliant hindsight? Your hindsight is off the charts... Thanks for admitting you are an alarmist. That explains more than anything else I can say..."


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/355316094_5b3bfb725b.jpg?v=0

how is it hindsight when he ALREADY HAD THE INJURY?

[Buckets]

Nothing from V-Tech yet, they usually are on top of anything serious.

[OpIv37]

On the contrary, I am not making any judgements at all until the full product is on the field. You are the one who is trying to make a full judgement on a partial product...

and what's the point of the message board if we're not supposed to state our opinions?

This place would be awful boring if everyone like you and Justa just sat around going "let's wait and see" all day.

[justasportsfan]

why does every thread have to turn into an OP vs. Mystic thread

:shakeno:

[Mr. Pink]

What a shock!

McCargo spiked himself again!

Who woulda thunk it? Oh wait, EVERYONE.

I'm getting close to being all for cutting ties with this guy next offseason and getting a viable replacement in the middle. You know someone that might actually produce. And <gasp> stay healthy.

[justasportsfan]

This place would be awful boring if everyone like you and Justa just sat around going "let's wait and see" all day.


not really.

It's better than being in a room filled with Ms. Cleo wannabe's who in their head think they know better than the coaches and everyone else.

BTW, don't get me involved . :couch:

[Dr. Lecter]

why does every thread have to turn into an OP vs. Mystic thread

:shakeno:

:rofl:

[Goobylal]

What made McCargo's injury scary was he was holding his surgically repaired left foot.

"My foot got rolled up on that play and it turned my whole ankle over," said McCargo. "It's sore, but I'll be alright."

Can we shut up now?

[justasportsfan]

"My foot got rolled up on that play and it turned my whole ankle over," said McCargo


OMG we drafted a putz........


Enter OP.....

[Mr. Pink]

Can we shut up now?

What's he supposed to say?

That's a blanket statement that every athlete/coach/etc make these days.

"i should be alright" of course he isn't gonna say anything different.

[Goobylal]

What's he supposed to say?

That's a blanket statement that every athlete/coach/etc make these days.

"i should be alright" of course he isn't gonna say anything different.
If it were his foot that got injured, he wouldn't say it was his ankle. Or he'd say "no comment."

[OpIv37]

Can we shut up now?

nope, not at all.

Like I said, the guy has a history of injury. The burden of proof is on him to prove he's healthy. So far, he hasn't done that.

[HHURRICANE]

Can we just say that McCargo getting hurt sucks. As stated previously he needs all of the camp and playing time he can get.

I'm not ready to call him a bust but I wouldn't mind if he had come into camp in better shape, and not getting hurt for the third time now.

[Goobylal]

There's only so much you can do when a guy rolls-up on your ankle. Sure it sucks to hear him get injured, but it's probably a good lesson for NEXT time to not jump on things. Then again, no one learned anything after he strained his abs and was out a total of 1 whole day of practice.

[The last buffalo fan]

Gimme a frigging brake!!!! :baby:

[Michael82]

He was limping pretty badly. :ill:

[The last buffalo fan]

He was limping pretty badly. :ill:

It was the ankle for God's sake!!!!!

[HHURRICANE]

He was limping pretty badly. :ill:

Really? The only good thing is that in our D things only bend but they don't break.:str8face:

[Goobylal]

Really? The only good thing is that in our D things only bend but they don't break.:str8face:
:bf1:

[jamze132]

I blame this on the front office. This guy had injury problems in college so what do the Bills do, they actually trade up to draft the guy. Why is it this organization insists on using premium draft picks on injured and unmotivated players ?


blaming the FO isn't allowed- they've only had one year so mistakes don't count.
Lee Evans had a bum knee too but I don't hear anyone *****ing about that.

[Michael82]

Really? The only good thing is that in our D things only bend but they don't break.:str8face:
:rofl:

[justasportsfan]

It was the ankle for God's sake!!!!!
I don't think Mikey's ever turned his ankle before

[Mad Bomber]

Jeez - I hope this turns out to be nothing!

MCCARGO EXITS PRACTICE EARLY: John McCargo was pulled out of practice early after what appeared to be a left foot injury. He was examined extensively on the sideline by trainers as its his surgically repaired foot. It can't be too serious however since he left the field under his own power. I hope it turns out to be nothing, too. However, I'm really concerned about this guy's ability to stay healthy. This sounds like a chronic thing that will further hinder his ability to get into game shape and make a difference. It's just a gut feeling, but to use an oft-used line in the Star Wars series....I have a bad feeling about this.

[ParanoidAndroid]

A little bit of rest, cortizone and a good tape job will have him back on the field in no time.
Look, if we get a few weeks into the season and this guy isn't contributing and is still getting hurt, then we might have a legitimate beef. Until then, it's just knee-jerk reaction time.

[Goobylal]

Lee Evans had a bum knee too but I don't hear anyone *****ing about that.
Great post.

And it's not like McCargo could have prevented getting his ankle rolled-up on.

[raphael120]

Lee Evans had a bum knee too but I don't hear anyone *****ing about that.

Lee Evans may have a bum knee, but he's our top performer day in and day out, which is something you can't say about McCargo. He's just a bum.

[Voltron]

Sources: Broncos attempting to trade veteran tackle Warren (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2973395)



New coordinator Jim Bates prefers two-gap tackles, interior players who are anchors more than penetrators, and Warren has always been a one-gap defender, a guy who likes to get upfield.


Warren, 29, was acquired by Denver from Cleveland in a 2005 trade. In two seasons with the Broncos, the former University of Florida standout started in 31 of a possible 32 games and registered 93 tackles and 5½ sacks. That included 51 tackles and 2½ sacks in 2006, when Warren appeared in 15 games, all as a starter.


Would be worth a look at least!

[madness]

:rofl: 9 pages because somebody rolled up on his ankle. You'd almost think this was baseball. ahhhh, funny stuff.

[patmoran2006]

Unless he hurts his foot putting it up Willis McGahee's ass, he needs to stop being hurt.. I told you, he's becoming Samuel L. Jackson's character from Unbreakable.

It may be the taboo word around him when it comes to him, but bust cant help but to enter one's mind.

[eyedog]

Lee Evans had a bum knee too but I don't hear anyone *****ing about that.

His Junior season, not the second half of his Senior season like Mccargo and McGahee ?
He came back and played his Senior year.

[M]

Unless he hurts his foot putting it up Willis McGahee's ass, he needs to stop being hurt..

:rofl:

[CSFAN]

There's not much but speculation on this thread. It's pretty ridiculous to write the guy off because of this; it's not even clear if he's going to miss the Atlanta game, much less not be ready for the regular season.

A lot of this stuff will be easier to address mid-season. Calling the guy a bum for twisting his ankle? Gimme a break. Maybe it's in the genes of Bills fans to immediately jump to "worst case scenario" at this point...

[DraftBoy]

That's another issue, their system. This tampa-2 system works great if you can play with the lead, ala colts, and come after the passer, but get behind and we are in trouble.

As for looking up d-lineman compaered to safties, please. I shouldn't even have to be discussing it.


You do know why its called the Cover 2 right? The safeties are the most integral part of the system. If you dont have safeties the entire system fails. Whether you like ir or not is a different situation, however since neither of us have control over that, then that doesnt matter. If we are running a usual 4-3 base defensive set then yes DT is more important but in the Cover 2, I believe that you need to build from the back to the front. Again just a philosophy on talent.

[justasportsfan]

I would've :posrep: Moran for that comment.

[SABURZFAN]

we should have drafted mangold instead. :shakeno:

[Wys Guy]

Jeez - I hope this turns out to be nothing!

MCCARGO EXITS PRACTICE EARLY: John McCargo was pulled out of practice early after what appeared to be a left foot injury. He was examined extensively on the sideline by trainers as its his surgically repaired foot. It can't be too serious however since he left the field under his own power.

http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?blogger_id=1

So much for one of Lechter's wagers for me it would appear at this time.

; )

CHA CHING!

[OpIv37]

Lee Evans had a bum knee too but I don't hear anyone *****ing about that.

So did McGahee but you don't hear anyone *****ing about him.... oh, wait.

Also, Evans didn't cost two first day picks.

[eyedog]

D-Boy, your cover-2 works great when playing with the lead. It's based on getting to the qb and playing zone behind it. Great but if we get down, be prepared to watch teams steamroll this d-line.
I personally don't like this defense for this team, but there's nothing we can do about that. I'll give it two more years and Fewell will be packing his bags. I really hope I'm wrong because I'm sick of losing.

[DraftBoy]

D-Boy, your cover-2 works great when playing with the lead. It's based on getting to the qb and playing zone behind it. Great but if we get down, be prepared to watch teams steamroll this d-line.
I personally don't like this defense for this team, but there's nothing we can do about that. I'll give it two more years and Fewell will be packing his bags. I really hope I'm wrong because I'm sick of losing.


its not my Cover 2 its our cover 2, Im not sure how much I like it either, I agree we need to get better DT's up front, but I think they started building the defense correctly, but somewhere along the way completely forgot about it (CB, DE, and DT are not to the standard I think they could of been).

[patmoran2006]

we should have drafted mangold instead. :shakeno:
Ughh.. can you imagine how much sweeter our OL would be right now with Mangold manning the middle.. Damn.

And when we traded up, that instant that's who I thought we were taking.

Even Marv knows he wishes he had a do-over on that one.

[DraftBoy]

Ughh.. can you imagine how much sweeter our OL would be right now with Mangold manning the middle.. Damn.

And when we traded up, that instant that's who I thought we were taking.

Even Marv knows he wishes he had a do-over on that one.


Didnt we just sign Fowler in the FA period before the draft that year? so why would you think we were taking Mangold at that point?

[Goobylal]

Didnt we just sign Fowler in the FA period before the draft that year?
Yep.

so why would you think we were taking Mangold at that point?
Because hindsight is 20/20.

[eyedog]

The real problem is their vast majority of free agent signings and day one draft picks haven't been very good.

[OpIv37]

Yep.

Because hindsight is 20/20.

well it wasn't hindsight for the Jets to see that Mangold is better than Fowler. They needed a center and chose to address it in the draft instead of signing him. So what's Buffalo's excuse?

[DraftBoy]

well it wasn't hindsight for the Jets to see that Mangold is better than Fowler. They needed a center and chose to address it in the draft instead of signing him. So what's Buffalo's excuse?


This doesnt make any sense Op, you dont know what the Jets thought of him, you dont even know if they offered him a deal or not. You are simply guessing and doing what everybody hates, just being negative because. Give it a rest, you make great points sometimes but then bog them down with crap like this.

[Meathead]

:lolpoint: panicky posters

[Goobylal]

The Jets signed Trey Teague on April 12th, but he was 32 at the time, versus Fowler who had just turned 27 when the Bills signed him. IOW they signed Teague to fill a need at center instead of Fowler, but realized he wasn't a long-term solution.

And if you want to play that game, why didn't the Jets draft Marcus McNeil instead of D'Brick?

[OpIv37]

This doesnt make any sense Op, you dont know what the Jets thought of him, you dont even know if they offered him a deal or not. You are simply guessing and doing what everybody hates, just being negative because. Give it a rest, you make great points sometimes but then bog them down with crap like this.

You're right, I don't know what the Jets were thinking.

I do know that they got Mangold, who's better than Fowler, instead of McCargo.

I don't know why you think fans don't have the right to be pissed when another team in our division got it right and we got it wrong and we need to fight the results of that on the field twice a year.

[OpIv37]

:lolpoint: panicky posters

well, we've already been over this. We have the same DL that was 28th against the run last year. When it comes to McCargo, he's had the same injury two years in a row, 2 off season surgeries, and this is his second injury in 3 weeks of camp. It's not "panicky" when the concern is perfectly legitimate based on the facts.

But go ahead- don't "panic". Just don't complain when the real games start and our DL is useless again.

[DraftBoy]

You're right, I don't know what the Jets were thinking.

I do know that they got Mangold, who's better than Fowler, instead of McCargo.

I don't know why you think fans don't have the right to be pissed when another team in our division got it right and we got it wrong and we need to fight the results of that on the field twice a year.

Jesus Op give the rhettoric a rest, I agree with you on most of what you say but on this you are off base. At the time we signed the best young center on the market and we ended up being wrong, do I like that? No, but to sit here and insinuate that the Jets had some magical scouting report that we didnt that made us sign Fowler and not Mangold is wrong. We signed a young vet center who we all thought would be good for us. Nobody knew Mangold was going to be manchild, though Pat did parade his name around enough. Do i wish we had Mangold here? Yes, but I dont blame Marv or the Bills for getting a scouting report wrong and taking the wrong guy, Ill find blame with that if they fail to acknowledge that and dont make a change to improve the situation.

[Goobylal]

Jesus Op give the rhettoric a rest, I agree with you on most of what you say but on this you are off base. At the time we signed the best young center on the market and we ended up being wrong, do I like that? No, but to sit here and insinuate that the Jets had some magical scouting report that we didnt that made us sign Fowler and not Mangold is wrong. We signed a young vet center who we all thought would be good for us. Nobody knew Mangold was going to be manchild, though Pat did parade his name around enough. Do i wish we had Mangold here? Yes, but I dont blame Marv or the Bills for getting a scouting report wrong and taking the wrong guy, Ill find blame with that if they fail to acknowledge that and dont make a change to improve the situation.
Considering the Jets TOTALLY whiffed on D'Brick, whose looking like D'Bust, it's hard to convince a logical person that the Jets got anything more than lucky with Mangold. Especially looking at the track record of high draft pick centers the past decade or so.

And what I really want to know is, why couldn't the Bills have had the Jets' schedule last year? It would have been the Bills in the playoffs instead of them.

[DraftBoy]

Considering the Jets TOTALLY whiffed on D'Brick, whose looking like D'Bust, it's hard to convince a logical person that the Jets got anything more than lucky with Mangold. Especially looking at the track record of high draft pick centers the past decade or so.

And what I really want to know is, why couldn't the Bills have had the Jets' schedule last year? It would have been the Bills in the playoffs instead of them.


Great Points

[DMBcrew36]

McCargo seems like he was built in the mold of Mike Williams. I almost guarantee he will never play anything close to a full season. He's made of glass.

[justasportsfan]

Jesus Op give the rhettoric a rest, I agree with you on most of what you say but on this you are off base. At the time we signed the best young center on the market and we ended up being wrong, do I like that? No, but to sit here and insinuate that the Jets had some magical scouting report that we didnt that made us sign Fowler and not Mangold is wrong. We signed a young vet center who we all thought would be good for us. Nobody knew Mangold was going to be manchild, though Pat did parade his name around enough. Do i wish we had Mangold here? Yes, but I dont blame Marv or the Bills for getting a scouting report wrong and taking the wrong guy, Ill find blame with that if they fail to acknowledge that and dont make a change to improve the situation.


we also needed a DT tp replace Adams. You can't always get everything 100% in the draft. Besides, McCargo isn't done yet. The knock on him is that he's injury prone. Bust? after 5-6 games?

Mangold turned out well for the Jets. Not all is great in jets land. We beat teh crap out of them didn't we? Like Gooby pointed out, they had a better schedule. We came so close to making the playoffs by a couple of games .

[Goobylal]

McCargo seems like he was built in the mold of Mike Williams.
Hardly. MW would be sidelined with minor injuries. The ab strain that McCargo had would have sidelined MW for weeks, not just 1 day.


I almost guarantee he will never play anything close to a full season. He's made of glass.
If this comes true, it won't be because he's a wimp like MW. There's a difference between that and being injury-prone. You break something, especially something as important as your foot, you can't play. It's when you can't play through pain that you're someone like MW.

[DraftBoy]

we also needed a DT tp replace Adams. You can't always get everything 100% in the draft. Besides, McCargo isn't done yet. The knock on him is that he's injury prone. Bust? after 5-6 games?

Mangold turned out well for the Jets. Not all is great in jets land. We beat teh crap out of them didn't we? Like Gooby pointed out, they had a better schedule. We came so close to making the playoffs by a couple of games .


Agreed, I didnt like the McCargo pick when we made it but he's not a bust yet

[Goobylal]

we also needed a DT tp replace Adams. You can't always get everything 100% in the draft. Besides, McCargo isn't done yet. The knock on him is that he's injury prone. Bust? after 5-6 games?

Mangold turned out well for the Jets. Not all is great in jets land. We beat teh crap out of them didn't we? Like Gooby pointed out, they had a better schedule. We came so close to making the playoffs by a couple of games .
Replace Cleveland and Oakland with San Diego and Baltimore...

[OpIv37]

Jesus Op give the rhettoric a rest, I agree with you on most of what you say but on this you are off base. At the time we signed the best young center on the market and we ended up being wrong, do I like that? No, but to sit here and insinuate that the Jets had some magical scouting report that we didnt that made us sign Fowler and not Mangold is wrong. We signed a young vet center who we all thought would be good for us. Nobody knew Mangold was going to be manchild, though Pat did parade his name around enough. Do i wish we had Mangold here? Yes, but I dont blame Marv or the Bills for getting a scouting report wrong and taking the wrong guy, Ill find blame with that if they fail to acknowledge that and dont make a change to improve the situation.

I just want to know why they got it right and we got it wrong. It's entirely possible that their scouting department is better than ours.

[Mad Bomber]

Ughh.. can you imagine how much sweeter our OL would be right now with Mangold manning the middle.. Damn.

And when we traded up, that instant that's who I thought we were taking.

Even Marv knows he wishes he had a do-over on that one.
I thought the same thing. But then again, I thought we should have picked Dallas Clark instead of McGahee (Clark went with the VERY next pick to the Colts).

[DraftBoy]

I just want to know why they got it right and we got it wrong. It's entirely possible that their scouting department is better than ours.

Agreed, but you cant lay blame for missing on a pick, just gotta chalk that one up to the law of percentages

[OpIv37]

Considering the Jets TOTALLY whiffed on D'Brick, whose looking like D'Bust, it's hard to convince a logical person that the Jets got anything more than lucky with Mangold. Especially looking at the track record of high draft pick centers the past decade or so.

And what I really want to know is, why couldn't the Bills have had the Jets' schedule last year? It would have been the Bills in the playoffs instead of them.

that, or they got unlucky on D'Brick. The logic is equally valid both ways.

[John Doe]

I sure am glad that the injury to McCargo is minor.

Go Bills!

[justasportsfan]

I just want to know why they got it right and we got it wrong. It's entirely possible that their scouting department is better than ours.
they got it right and we got it wrong in some areas and the vise versa. If you are simply using that based on McCargo and Mangold then yes they won that comparison ( so far) but doesn't mean they have a better team than we do. They just had a weaker sched.

Let's not forget, they also had a better qb who knew the system and how to run it. Ours was learning. That could aso make Mangold look better.

[patmoran2006]

Ok....
I"ve heard many things before.

But please tell me that I didnt just read someone hommerific enough to defend John McCargo and then blast off on D'Brick?

D'Bust?

Revist your exact post this offseason.

he was a ****ing rookie STARTING LEFT TACKLE for christ sakes. D'Brick is a monster. Unbelievable.

[patmoran2006]

Because hindsight is 20/20.

Wow.. We havent come to that conclusion with a FO decision about 50 times in the past seven years have we?

[jamze132]

Lee Evans may have a bum knee, but he's our top performer day in and day out, which is something you can't say about McCargo. He's just a bum.
This is just a bad post. I am not trying to defend McCargo but he hasn't exactly had a chance to play and learn at the NFL level.

[jamze132]

His Junior season, not the second half of his Senior season like Mccargo and McGahee ?
He came back and played his Senior year.
McCargo played most of his senior season too, and just ask Mario Williams how effective McCargo was on that D-line.

[jamze132]

So did McGahee but you don't hear anyone *****ing about him.... oh, wait.

Also, Evans didn't cost two first day picks.
And how many day 1 picks did we get from Baltimore for McGahee?

[OpIv37]

And how many day 1 picks did we get from Baltimore for McGahee?

what good are those picks going to do us THIS year?

[eyedog]

McCargo played most of his senior season too, and just ask Mario Williams how effective McCargo was on that D-line.

No he didn't because he came out after his Junior season, the same season where he missed about 5 or 6 games.

[eyedog]

I'm not saying the guy can't play at this level because nobody really knows yet. What we do know is he has a history of injury problems and he may never be able to stay on the field long enough to find out if he can play.

[raphael120]

Wow I'm suprised this thread is still going on strong.

Regular season needs to start, and FAST.

[Goobylal]

Ok....
I"ve heard many things before.

But please tell me that I didnt just read someone hommerific enough to defend John McCargo and then blast off on D'Brick?

D'Bust?

Revist your exact post this offseason.

he was a ****ing rookie STARTING LEFT TACKLE for christ sakes. D'Brick is a monster. Unbelievable.
He was the 4th overall pick and gave up 10 sacks last year. And he looked as bad at the end of the season as he did in the beginning, and isn't looking much better this year. The only thing "monster" about his was his contract, a 5-year $31M deal with a $13M signing bonus.

And McCargo was also a rookie and the 26th overall pick.

[Goobylal]

what good are those picks going to do us THIS year?
One of them got the Bills Poz.

[SABURZFAN]

Because hindsight is 20/20.


because i've been saying that since the mishap. :rolleyes:

[mysticsoto]

I just want to know why they got it right and we got it wrong. It's entirely possible that their scouting department is better than ours.

Oh my god...talk about one of the lamest comments I have seen in awhile. This alone shows that you will look for anything to support your negativity. It's too bad you didn't pick a better team though. The Jets hit gold with Mangold and Brick, but they've had quite their share of crappy picks.

This year alone...they had only 4 draft picks b'cse they spent ahead too much a nd also spent a great deal on unproven CB Revis who hasn't even signed yet and is WAY behind now in terms of starting this year - he's currently listed as their 4th string CB. Yeah, nice job...Jets.

Last year, their top 2 picks were good...and that's it.

In 2005, they took Nugent as their 1st pick. A kicker - all the way in the 2nd round. How idiotic was that? Has he panned out for them? His 1st year was horrible. Last year he was a little better...but taking a kicker so high should mean he is awesome. So much for that high scouting dept. you are giving so much credit to.

Oh, we could also talk about Justin Miller who they also drafted in the 2nd rd of 2005 (they had 2). Where is he now? He's not even on the team!!!!

You're one of those people who thinks the grass is always greener on the other side...

[OpIv37]

Oh my god...talk about one of the lamest comments I have seen in awhile. This alone shows that you will look for anything to support your negativity. It's too bad you didn't pick a better team though. The Jets hit gold with Mangold and Brick, but they've had quite their share of crappy picks.

This year alone...they had only 4 draft picks b'cse they spent ahead too much a nd also spent a great deal on unproven CB Revis who hasn't even signed yet and is WAY behind now in terms of starting this year - he's currently listed as their 4th string CB. Yeah, nice job...Jets.

Last year, their top 2 picks were good...and that's it.

In 2005, they took Nugent as their 1st pick. A kicker - all the way in the 2nd round. How idiotic was that? Has he panned out for them? His 1st year was horrible. Last year he was a little better...but taking a kicker so high should mean he is awesome. So much for that high scouting dept. you are giving so much credit to.

Oh, we could also talk about Justin Miller who they also drafted in the 2nd rd of 2005 (they had 2). Where is he now? He's not even on the team!!!!

You're one of those people who thinks the grass is always greener on the other side...
in this case, I don't THINK- I KNOW. They got D'Brick and Mangold, we have Fowler and McCargo. And when was the last time the Jets were in the playoffs? And what was their record last year? Yeah, they're far from perfect, but they've been better than us recently.

[mysticsoto]

in this case, I don't THINK- I KNOW. They got D'Brick and Mangold, we have Fowler and McCargo. And when was the last time the Jets were in the playoffs? And what was their record last year? Yeah, they're far from perfect, but they've been better than us recently.

We are talking about their scouting dept...and all of a sudden you try and change it to something else when you are proven wrong. Like I said, Brick and Mangold have been their only hits in the last 3 drafts or so. That doesn't make their scouting dept great as you made it sound. If you don't have anything else to backup that claim other than Brick and Mangold then it is obvious what orifice you were speaking out of!!!

[justasportsfan]

We are talking about their scouting dept...and all of a sudden you try and change it to something else when you are proven wrong. Like I said, Brick and Mangold have been their only hits in the last 3 drafts or so. That doesn't make their scouting dept great as you made it sound. If you don't have anything else to backup that claim other than Brick and Mangold then it is obvious what orifice you were speaking out of!!!


Our draft picks this year sucks too compared to the jets. Their scouting deprrtment is way better.

/sarcasm

[DraftBoy]

Oh, we could also talk about Justin Miller who they also drafted in the 2nd rd of 2005 (they had 2). Where is he now? He's not even on the team!!!!


http://www.nfl.com/players/justinmiller/profile?id=MIL366437
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/roster?team=nyj
http://www.newyorkjets.com/team/roster/

Not to be argumentative but when did they release Justin Miller and why do none of these sites report it? If they had released him I would hope we would sign him, or atleast consider it.

[OpIv37]

We are talking about their scouting dept...and all of a sudden you try and change it to something else when you are proven wrong. Like I said, Brick and Mangold have been their only hits in the last 3 drafts or so. That doesn't make their scouting dept great as you made it sound. If you don't have anything else to backup that claim other than Brick and Mangold then it is obvious what orifice you were speaking out of!!!

we were talking about us drafting McCargo instead of Mangold- they made the right decision, we made the wrong one.

But there's always an excuse. There's always a reason why it's ok. There's always a reason why the Bills FO isn't responsible even though we continue to suck. Don't you ever get sick of defending decisions that don't bear results on the field?

[madness]

Last time I checked, Justin Miller is having a solid TC this year.

I was grooming him for a starting CB on my BZFL team. :sad:

[mysticsoto]

http://www.nfl.com/players/justinmiller/profile?id=MIL366437
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/roster?team=nyj
http://www.newyorkjets.com/team/roster/

Not to be argumentative but when did they release Justin Miller and why do none of these sites report it? If they had released him I would hope we would sign him, or atleast consider it.

My mistake...I knew he had been removed from starting, but I thought they had dumped him and instead they just moved him to backup.

PS I wouldn't want him...

[mysticsoto]

we were talking about us drafting McCargo instead of Mangold- they made the right decision, we made the wrong one.

But there's always an excuse. There's always a reason why it's ok. There's always a reason why the Bills FO isn't responsible even though we continue to suck. Don't you ever get sick of defending decisions that don't bear results on the field?

You made the following comment:



It's entirely possible that their scouting department is better than ours.

And now you're backpeddaling (as usual). If their scouting dept is better than ours, how come they only have 2 good picks in the last 3 seasons???

Don't bother trying to change the topic. If you can't answer that, then say so and let's move on!

[OpIv37]

You made the following comment:



And now you're backpeddaling (as usual). If their scouting dept is better than ours, how come they only have 2 good picks in the last 3 seasons???

Don't bother trying to change the topic. If you can't answer that, then say so and let's move on!

oh but wait- I thought it took time to evaluate draft picks and it's too early to call McCargo a bust, but now you're ready to say they only had two good draft picks in 3 years? Why is it too early to criticize McCargo but perfectly legitimate to say the Jets' drafts sucked?

IF the Jets draft were as bad as you say, then you're right, I can't answer that. But if you apply your McCargo logic to the Jets, then it's too early to say their drafts are bad.

[mysticsoto]

oh but wait- I thought it took time to evaluate draft picks and it's too early to call McCargo a bust, but now you're ready to say they only had two good draft picks in 3 years? Why is it too early to criticize McCargo but perfectly legitimate to say the Jets' drafts sucked?

IF the Jets draft were as bad as you say, then you're right, I can't answer that. But if you apply your McCargo logic to the Jets, then it's too early to say their drafts are bad.

Except that McCargo hasn't played b'cse he was injured. It's a little different than having a Nugent or a Justin Miller suck for the last few years. McCargo hasn't had a chance to play a full season yet.

Let's turn that around to you...how can you sit there and say McCargo sucks and then say the Jets have a great scouting dept b'cse they've hit on 2 players in the last 3 years???

Explain that to me!!!

[OpIv37]

Except that McCargo hasn't played b'cse he was injured. It's a little different than having a Nugent or a Justin Miller suck for the last few years. McCargo hasn't had a chance to play a full season yet.

Let's turn that around to you...how can you sit there and say McCargo sucks and then say the Jets have a great scouting dept b'cse they've hit on 2 players in the last 3 years???

Explain that to me!!!

they hit on players that we could have had- maybe not D'Brick but definitely Mangold. So our scouting dept got it wrong and theirs got it right. Maybe that on it's own doesn't prove that theirs is better, but it certainly proved that we got it wrong in that instance and we're paying for it on the field.

Hell, even our own junior journalist Pat Moran saw Mangold's value- if a guy on a message board can get it right, what's the FO's excuse? And this isn't the only instance. For example, I talked to a few Skins fans who gave surprisingly accurate descriptions of Bowen and Royal when we signed them last year.

I don't see the point in defending our FO when fans and our division rivals knew better. There's no excuse.

[mysticsoto]

Maybe that on it's own doesn't prove that theirs is better...

That's all I needed. Thanks.

[OpIv37]

That's all I needed. Thanks.

well then what was the point of all of this? even in my very first post on this that you quoted I said MAYBE their FO is better than ours.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Oh man, is this pissing contest still going on?

[DraftBoy]

Oh man, is this pissing contest still going on?


Is the pope catholic?

[BlackMetalNinja]

Is the pope catholic?


I don't know, I'm not big on church...

[justasportsfan]

You made the following comment:



And now you're backpeddaling (as usual). If their scouting dept is better than ours, how come they only have 2 good picks in the last 3 seasons???

Don't bother trying to change the topic. If you can't answer that, then say so and let's move on!
I agree. He's trying to switch subjects.

Nugent in the 2nd? Thats' one hell of a scouting dept. BTW, we got our kicker for less than a 2nd rd. Their scouting dept is awsome. I'm worried that we drafted Lynch and Poz now. We got it wrong. :nervous:

[mysticsoto]

well then what was the point of all of this? even in my very first post on this that you quoted I said MAYBE their FO is better than ours.

The point is your comments were groundless. The grass is NOT always greener on the other side - despite what you seem to think...

[Tatonka]

wow.. what a waste of 12 pages..

mcargo will be back in practice before the thread dies.

[justasportsfan]

wow.. what a waste of 12 pages..

mcargo will be back in practice before the thread dies.


Link?

[The last buffalo fan]

wow.. what a waste of 12 pages..

mcargo will be back in practice before the thread dies.

:bf1:

It is a shame to see two of our best posters, to ***** eachother in a worthless matter. Sad. :ill:

[jamze132]

what good are those picks going to do us THIS year?
Does it really matter? Are you expecting playoffs this season?

[OpIv37]

Does it really matter? Are you expecting playoffs this season?

no, but maybe if we had players instead of picks....

[jamze132]

I agree this thread is getting rediculous.

But I want to add that Marcus Colston was a 7th round pick and Ryan Leaf was a 1st round pick. In the NFL, it's hit or miss. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you look like an *******.

[Dr. Lecter]

no, but maybe if we had players instead of picks....

I think we have been over this.

The better NFL teams are built through the draft.

[The last buffalo fan]

IS MCCARGO PRACTICING OR NO?

[Goobylal]

Yep, there's a lot of luck involved. Again, look at D'Brick. He played poorly for a starter, much less the 4th overall pick in the draft, whereas Marcus McNeill looked like an all-pro. Why didn't the Jets' superior scouting pickup on THAT one? And again as I said, name the last 1st round pick center to make an impact in the past decade.

[Goobylal]

IS MCCARGO PRACTICING OR NO?
I don't know, but the prudent thing would be to hold him out at least for today.

[The last buffalo fan]

I don't know, but the prudent thing would be to hold him out at least for today.

:up: Thanks bro. The right question should be is he all right? But no new means good news I guess.

[OpIv37]

I think we have been over this.

The better NFL teams are built through the draft.

and that helps us this year HOW?

It's going to be a long season no matter how you look at it.

[justasportsfan]

I think we have been over this.

The better NFL teams are built through the draft.
PAts, Colts, etc.etc.

Redskins has won what by bringing in probowlers every year? They bring in players every year to help them that year and then what? Nothing.

[mysticsoto]

:up: Thanks bro. The right question should be is he all right? But no new means good news I guess.

We won't know until later. I think practice today in TC is at night...

[Goobylal]

Oh and also again, switch the Bills' and Jets' schedules last year and the Bills make the playoffs while the Jets miss them. That had nothing to do with FO's or the draft or anything else. It was pure luck.