Hunting for Vick

[Mahdi]

Although I don't agree with the actions of Michael Vick, I also do NOT agree with the way he has been villanized, and I honestly think its pure BS. There are criminals all over the world treated with more respect than Vick has been treated with. I wonder if Peyton Manning committed these crimes what the reaction would be. In fact isn't it a common "caucasian" sport to go out shooting helpless animals in the name of fun? But I guess its ok because Deer, wolves, bears, etc don't roll over and fetch. The fact is people are always so quick to rip someone apart ESPECIALLY when their colored... YES I SAID IT! and its a fact that is greatly affecting this case whether ppl want to admit it or not. Also, Vick is being used as an example to the rest of the league and although I do agree that there should be an example made of some ppl who are constantly breaking laws in the NFL I don't think that Vick should be it and not so harshly. In fact I think that Willis McGahee is a MUCH WORSE human being than Vick is. Having kids and abandoning them routinely IMO is mush worse than Vick's crimes. I really wonder what everyone expects, society is so violent these days, is it really crazy that some ppl might enjoy dog fighting. How about cleaning up the streets and getting rid of the real criminals that are gunning down HUMANS on a daily basis! Also how about ridding the communities of gangs and guns and drugs.... so that people like Vick and others in the league don't have to grow up in situations that make them immune to such things. It seems the priority is nailing the guys who are actually making something of themselves and getting out of those dangerous communities instead of those who are creating it.


Im sorry, but people's perspective on this issue is way out of wack compared to the BIG PICTURE... and making Vick into this notorious criminal is ridiculous.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think you are way off here. To turn this into a black/white thing is plain stupid. Also, comparing this to the legal hunting of wild animals, where there is law to it, is insane. You can't be serious to think that if Peyton Manning was found to have dog fighting and he also committed the same crimes that people would say it was no big deal is just stupid. You will probably be getting replies here on how stupid your ideas are. I agree that there are people who do pretty bad things and don't get much pub for it, but no way is the torture and the ways these animals were treaded would get my sympathy.

[Mahdi]

So its ok to kill some animals but not others? Which can we and which cant?

[Mahdi]

I realize the black/white thing is sensitive but it cant be denied that that problem still exists in society and in the eyes of the law.

[hydro]

One big problem i have with this situation is why does he have to resort to this when he is one of the highest paid players in the league. Was it really worth the trouble for him? I think not, and as for him being an example, i think its a good thing because if he slapped on the wrist the NFL will just be seen as a joke. Too many celebrities are getting away with things that would put regular joe's in jail for much longer.

You should know better than bring up the hunting issue. There is just no basis for this arguement. For one thing it is all based on keeping the population down, secondly people hunt sometimes to keep food on the table (do you eat dog? i sure dont thing Vick does).

And as for making him out to be a notorious criminal, i haven't seen such accusation...

[Meathead]

I realize the black/white thing is sensitive but it cant be denied that that problem still exists in society and in the eyes of the law.
very true and very worthy of consideration

but in the final analysis it doesnt appear to me to be a factor in this case

if peyton manning was caught bankrolling illegal gambing and assisted when dogs were smashed into concrete until they died i would think the same exact punishment would result

[hydro]

I realize the black/white thing is sensitive but it cant be denied that that problem still exists in society and in the eyes of the law.

Do you think PETA cares?

[Mahdi]

One big problem i have with this situation is why does he have to resort to this when he is one of the highest paid players in the league. Was it really worth the trouble for him? I think not, and as for him being an example, i think its a good thing because if he slapped on the wrist the NFL will just be seen as a joke. Too many celebrities are getting away with things that would put regular joe's in jail for much longer.

You should know better than bring up the hunting issue. There is just no basis for this arguement. For one thing it is all based on keeping the population down, secondly people hunt sometimes to keep food on the table (do you eat dog? i sure dont thing Vick does).

And as for making him out to be a notorious criminal, i haven't seen such accusation...
Exactly he's not being accused of being a notorious criminal just treated like one by the general public. And as for Vick being too rich to get into dog fighting. Its not abou the money to him im sure. Its about the thrill, just like those who shoot helpless animals from 200 yards away for the thrill.

[Meathead]

the most important thing is that he thought he was above the law. everybody involved in dog fighting knows its illegal. everybody in the nfl knows that gambling on such events is TOTALLY unacceptable. how many instances does somebody need to know that? so he obviously thought he was immune

if someone thinks dogfighting should be allowed thats fine, then bring it up publicly and try to change things. but you absolutely dont just pretend like its not an issue and do whatever the hell you want. its against the law right now, you know it, and you will face the consequences should you choose to continue. he did and hes getting what he deserves

in this country only a wingnut president is above the law and can do whatever the hell he wants without reprisal. for now anyway football players are a different story

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

So its ok to kill some animals but not others? Which can we and which cant?

You can't be serious, there are laws that allow you to kill certain animals. You can actually search for what animals are legal to kill. Also, these hunters don't torture the animals or have rape machines. I just can't believe you are serious with this argument, you have to be here to stir up trouble.

[Mahdi]

the most important thing is that he thought he was above the law. everybody involved in dog fighting knows its illegal. everybody in the nfl knows that gambling on such events is TOTALLY unacceptable. how many instances does somebody need to know that? so he obviously thought he was immune

if someone thinks dogfighting should be allowed thats fine, then bring it up publicly and try to change things. but you absolutely dont just pretend like its not an issue and do whatever the hell you want. its against the law right now, you know it, and you will face the consequences should you choose to continue. he did and hes getting what he deserves

in this country only a wingnut president is above the law and can do whatever the hell he wants without reprisal. for now anyway football players are a different story
At least we agree on the pres issue.

[hydro]

Alert me when people train deer, bears, squirrels, etc to kill each other so people can bet on them. Until then your hunting analogy will not be even close to valid.

[Stewie]

Although I don't agree with the actions of Michael Vick, I also do NOT agree with the way he has been villanized, and I honestly think its pure BS. There are criminals all over the world treated with more respect than Vick has been treated with. I wonder if Peyton Manning committed these crimes what the reaction would be. In fact isn't it a common "caucasian" sport to go out shooting helpless animals in the name of fun? But I guess its ok because Deer, wolves, bears, etc don't roll over and fetch.

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have seen posted on this board, and that's saying a lot.

Peyton Manning would be cruicified ten times more than Mike Vick because he's ten times the quarterback and celebrity than Vick is. If you dont' believe that, you need to look in the mirror to find the racist tendencies you're accusing others of.

Also, you have obviously never hunted in your life. Hunters aim to kill quickly and painlessly. Hunting is an activity that evolved from humans getting food for survival. To compare that to electocuting a dog, or slamming a dog onto pavement repeatedly, is the height of stupidity and ignorance.

[Meathead]

its just too bad ron mexico cant invoke executive privilege then he could walk scott free

[Mahdi]

You can't be serious, there are laws that allow you to kill certain animals. You can actually search for what animals are legal to kill. Also, these hunters don't torture the animals or have rape machines. I just can't believe you are serious with this argument, you have to be here to stir up trouble.
K Im not one to stir up trouble. Secondly, just because the law says I can shoot a bear doesnt mean its any less cruel than what Vick did. Unless these magic bullets dont hurt, its also a form of torture.

[LtBillsFan66]

Although I don't agree with the actions of Michael Vick, I also do NOT agree with the way he has been villanized, and I honestly think its pure BS. There are criminals all over the world treated with more respect than Vick has been treated with. I wonder if Peyton Manning committed these crimes what the reaction would be. In fact isn't it a common "caucasian" sport to go out shooting helpless animals in the name of fun? But I guess its ok because Deer, wolves, bears, etc don't roll over and fetch. The fact is people are always so quick to rip someone apart ESPECIALLY when their colored... YES I SAID IT! and its a fact that is greatly affecting this case whether ppl want to admit it or not. Also, Vick is being used as an example to the rest of the league and although I do agree that there should be an example made of some ppl who are constantly breaking laws in the NFL I don't think that Vick should be it and not so harshly. In fact I think that Willis McGahee is a MUCH WORSE human being than Vick is. Having kids and abandoning them routinely IMO is mush worse than Vick's crimes. I really wonder what everyone expects, society is so violent these days, is it really crazy that some ppl might enjoy dog fighting. How about cleaning up the streets and getting rid of the real criminals that are gunning down HUMANS on a daily basis! Also how about ridding the communities of gangs and guns and drugs.... so that people like Vick and others in the league don't have to grow up in situations that make them immune to such things. It seems the priority is nailing the guys who are actually making something of themselves and getting out of those dangerous communities instead of those who are creating it.


Im sorry, but people's perspective on this issue is way out of wack compared to the BIG PICTURE... and making Vick into this notorious criminal is ridiculous.

:bf1:

[Mahdi]

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have seen posted on this board, and that's saying a lot.

Peyton Manning would be cruicified ten times more than Mike Vick because he's ten times the quarterback and celebrity than Vick is. If you dont' believe that, you need to look in the mirror to find the racist tendencies you're accusing others of.

Also, you have obviously never hunted in your life. Hunters aim to kill quickly and painlessly. Hunting is an activity that evolved from humans getting food for survival. To compare that to electocuting a dog, or slamming a dog onto pavement repeatedly, is the height of stupidity and ignorance.
Im not racist at all, i have no problem with any race. Every race has good and bad people. And like I said in the beginning I DO NOT AGREE with what he did, it is cruel and completely unacceptable. But to put the man in jail with murderers and rapists is insane.

[Dr. Lecter]

Im not racist at all, i have no problem with any race. Every race has good and bad people. And like I said in the beginning I DO NOT AGREE with what he did, it is cruel and completely unacceptable. But to put the man in jail with murderers and rapists is insane.

Why is it insane? He will have a shorter sentence. Not all crimes are the same, but to defend him by saying there are worse people out there is a pretty weak argument.

[Mahdi]

Alert me when people train deer, bears, squirrels, etc to kill each other so people can bet on them. Until then your hunting analogy will not be even close to valid.
Who cares how they are being killed, they are still dying at the end. I dont eat Bear meat so in my eyes a bear has the same right to live as a dog. I also don't care what the government allows and doesnt allow im talking about the morality of it. And killing animals for sport in any form is cruel whether or not you can pick up a license to do it or not.

[hydro]

Who cares how they are being killed, they are still dying at the end. I dont eat Bear meat so in my eyes a bear has the same right to live as a dog. I also don't care what the government allows and doesnt allow im talking about the morality of it. And killing animals for sport in any form is cruel whether or not you can pick up a license to do it or not.

And yet you would one of the people complaining about your safety when the bear population is out of control and they end up in peoples back yards more often. Not to mention when your vehicle is totalled by hitting a deer because there is such a high deer population.

[Captain gameboy]

What this idiot did has no racial relevance. Nor does the response to it.

Comparing dogfighting and subsequent gruesome killing of losers with hunting is akin to comparing sadism with grocery shopping.

It is sick and it is pathetic.

Further, your complaint that he is being treated as a "notorious criminal," is a stretch beyond belief.
The creep is out of jail and living his life. He has just been banned by a league that has every right to enforce its behavior rules, as every company does.

[Mahdi]

And yet you would one of the people complaining about your safety when the bear population is out of control and they end up in peoples back yards more often. Not to mention when your vehicle is totalled by hitting a deer because there is such a high deer population.
Actually I wouldnt complain..... thats part of life. I would deal with that situation if it arose. Building a fence is also a good idea. Then again it seems that attacking the helpless before they "supposedly" attack you is a popular notion these days.

[hydro]

Actually I wouldnt complain..... thats part of life. I would deal with that situation if it arose. Building a fence is also a good idea. Then again it seems that attacking the helpless before they "supposedly" attack you is a popular notion these days.

I would say dieing slowly from getting hit from a car would be a lot worse than getting shot and killed in an instant.

[don137]

I get sooo sick of the race card when things happen to minorities...There was a guy that is white that ran a dog fighting ring in South Carolina. He got sentenced a year or two ago to forty years in prison.
The argument against huntings animals is weak. Deer, bears etc. aren't being bred to fight one another and then if they lose and do not die to be killed by electrocuted or drowned.
How can you say it would of gone easier if it happened to Manning? What basis can you say that because he is white? Their is no merit to that statement. Go ask Tim Regis, John Rigas, Bernie Ebbers, John Skilling as they sit in rot in jail, justifiabily, if they got off easily because they were white.
I hate racist people but it gets old that if bad people do bad things and they are a minority then the race card gets played. Maybe they actually deserved what they got.

[ublinkwescore]

Although I don't agree with the actions of Michael Vick, I also do NOT agree with the way he has been villanized, and I honestly think its pure BS. There are criminals all over the world treated with more respect than Vick has been treated with. I wonder if Peyton Manning committed these crimes what the reaction would be. In fact isn't it a common "caucasian" sport to go out shooting helpless animals in the name of fun? But I guess its ok because Deer, wolves, bears, etc don't roll over and fetch. The fact is people are always so quick to rip someone apart ESPECIALLY when their colored... YES I SAID IT! and its a fact that is greatly affecting this case whether ppl want to admit it or not. Also, Vick is being used as an example to the rest of the league and although I do agree that there should be an example made of some ppl who are constantly breaking laws in the NFL I don't think that Vick should be it and not so harshly. In fact I think that Willis McGahee is a MUCH WORSE human being than Vick is. Having kids and abandoning them routinely IMO is mush worse than Vick's crimes. I really wonder what everyone expects, society is so violent these days, is it really crazy that some ppl might enjoy dog fighting. How about cleaning up the streets and getting rid of the real criminals that are gunning down HUMANS on a daily basis! Also how about ridding the communities of gangs and guns and drugs.... so that people like Vick and others in the league don't have to grow up in situations that make them immune to such things. It seems the priority is nailing the guys who are actually making something of themselves and getting out of those dangerous communities instead of those who are creating it.


Im sorry, but people's perspective on this issue is way out of wack compared to the BIG PICTURE... and making Vick into this notorious criminal is ridiculous.

Screw that, throw the freakin' book at his @$$ as hard as possible - the guy's a multimillionaire, and he's gonna go and get involved with this crap - he's gotta have some mental problems. I don't feel the least bit sorry for him.

The difference between Vick and most of your every day $2 thugs is that Vick is a multi-millionaire, and these other guys get involved in shady business because they're broke and they want to try to make a quick buck.

I think your perception is backwards.

[Tatonka]

i think someone who electrocutes dogs repeatedly.. or slams dogs on the ground to kill them deserves to have the same done to him..

i really dont give a **** what color vicks ass is.. and normally only people with serious issues with race pull that garbage ass card anyway.. i would use the pot/kettle saying here.. but i dont want anyone to cry about the pot calling the kettle "black" and start another thread about it.

i guess that if it was a white guy, the plea deal would have been much less than the cake walk that vick got?? rofl.. like someone pointed out in a prior thread, a white guy recently got 40 years in carolina for running the exact same kind of operation.. but i guess he didnt have the great lawyers that mr. minority rich superstar vick had to get a sweet plea deal.

vick will get much less than he deserves in the end.. and he still will have millions when he gets out of jail.. i am just glad that his nfl career is ruined.. so he can spend more of his time perpetuating stereotypes..

have fun in jail, mr. mexico. i hope someone shows you what it feels like to be a dog that just lost a fight at your mansion.

[Tatonka]

the best part is all his boys and family members rolled on him so quickly..

How proud mamma vick must be with how well marcus and michael turned out.. all the talent in the world.. but you cant turn chicken **** into chicken salad.

[Mahdi]

i think someone who electrocutes dogs repeatedly.. or slams dogs on the ground to kill them deserves to have the same done to him..

i really dont give a **** what color vicks ass is.. and normally only people with serious issues with race pull that garbage ass card anyway.. i would use the pot/kettle saying here.. but i dont want anyone to cry about the pot calling the kettle "black" and start another thread about it.

i guess that if it was a white guy, the plea deal would have been much less than the cake walk that vick got?? rofl.. like someone pointed out in a prior thread, a white guy recently got 40 years in carolina for running the exact same kind of operation.. but i guess he didnt have the great lawyers that mr. minority rich superstar vick had to get a sweet plea deal.

vick will get much less than he deserves in the end.. and he still will have millions when he gets out of jail.. i am just glad that his nfl career is ruined.. so he can spend more of his time perpetuating stereotypes..

have fun in jail, mr. mexico. i hope someone shows you what it feels like to be a dog that just lost a fight at your mansion.
Look I get what yer saying.... and to be honest I completely agree with a lot of it. I just dont feel as though the punishment fits the crime. And I also feel that theres a fine line between killing for sport and what Vick did. Yes the method was more cruel but in the end its the same result. A dead animal at the hands of a human for no necessary cause.

[Captain gameboy]

..... so that people like Vick and others in the league don't have to grow up in situations that make them immune to such things.

Vick is not immune.
But....as a plaintiff in an ongoing lawsuit against the very municipality that Vick grew up in, I will agree that he was surrounded by morons.

Still, no excuse for his idiocy/sadism.

[Tatonka]

vicks punishment doesnt fit the crime??

jesus christ.. your right!!.. he should have gotten much worse..

like said.. average joe white guy just got 40 years in jail.. vick will sit in a country club jail for 6 months.

how can you possibly say the punishment doesnt fit the crime when he got basically nothing??

he broke a lot of serious laws ASIDE from cruelty to animals... he knew he was absolutely ****ed which is why his pussy ass took a plea in the first place..

he should be thanking his lucky stars that he isnt getting ass ****ed by nate newton for the next 20 years.

[Mahdi]

Vick is not immune.
But....as a plaintiff in an ongoing lawsuit against the very municipality that Vick grew up in, I will agree that he was surrounded by morons.

Still, no excuse for his idiocy/sadism.
Its definitely no excuse I agree. But just as this issue is being addressed with such a firm hand, why cant the root causes be dealt with in the same way? Does anyone really believe that guns, drugs, thuggery, gangs and such can't be controlled? Because its these things that produce individuals with moral compasses that are out of wack. And that certainly wont change when that person suddenly has millions of dollars. My point is that all the important stuff is left alone while the bi-products are being highlighted.

[Mahdi]

vicks punishment doesnt fit the crime??

jesus christ.. your right!!.. he should have gotten much worse..

like said.. average joe white guy just got 40 years in jail.. vick will sit in a country club jail for 6 months.

how can you possibly say the punishment doesnt fit the crime when he got basically nothing??

he broke a lot of serious laws ASIDE from cruelty to animals... he knew he was absolutely ****ed which is why his pussy ass took a plea in the first place..

he should be thanking his lucky stars that he isnt getting ass ****ed by nate newton for the next 20 years.
To be honest I really dont know what he got... last I heard was 18-36 months in jail.

[Tatonka]

and i dont agree with hunting at all.. i am an animal owner.. i have a rotty and a great dane, and i consider them children.. but i dont find it enjoyable or entertaining to see a deer killed or a bear or whatever..

and for those people that say hunting is for the meat.. horse****.. hunters hunt for the thrill of the kill...

that being said.. hunting is supposed to be done in the least painful way possible to the animal, and i know several hunters.. they dont get enjoyment out of seeing the animal suffer.

so i can say that i dont like hunting.. it is currently legal to do it.. so as long as someone is doing it the right way and not out to watch a deer suffer, then so be it.. i dont make the laws..

but vick broke laws.. a ton of them. not just one.. or two.. a lot of them.. and he should pay alot worse than he is.

[Mahdi]

and i dont agree with hunting at all.. i am an animal owner.. i have a rotty and a great dane, and i consider them children.. but i dont find it enjoyable or entertaining to see a deer killed or a bear or whatever..

and for those people that say hunting is for the meat.. horse****.. hunters hunt for the thrill of the kill...

that being said.. hunting is supposed to be done in the least painful way possible to the animal, and i know several hunters.. they dont get enjoyment out of seeing the animal suffer.

so i can say that i dont like hunting.. it is currently legal to do it.. so as long as someone is doing it the right way and not out to watch a deer suffer, then so be it.. i dont make the laws..

but vick broke laws.. a ton of them. not just one.. or two.. a lot of them.. and he should pay alot worse than he is.
Agreed, but just because they dont like to see the animal suffer or try not to, they still do and thats my point.

[hydro]

Its definitely no excuse I agree. But just as this issue is being addressed with such a firm hand, why cant the root causes be dealt with in the same way? Does anyone really believe that guns, drugs, thuggery, gangs and such can't be controlled? Because its these things that produce individuals with moral compasses that are out of wack. And that certainly wont change when that person suddenly has millions of dollars. My point is that all the important stuff is left alone while the bi-products are being highlighted.

Now you are just beating around the bush. This is such a big issue because its not mainstream. EVERYONE knows that gangs, guns, violence and drugs are problems that we have had hardly any control over but you dont here about dog fighting everyday.

He broke a law, and whether you believe its just or not, the government believed it was worthy of a law requiring jail time. The reason i see the punishment fits the crime is that if he has the mindset to be able to do this to animals who is to say he wouldn't do it to people? You have to be pretty sick to force animals to fight then torture and kill them because they didnt win you some money. Money should be the last thing Vick should think about.

[Philagape]

Vick is getting so much attention because as a celebrity, he becomes a composite of a crime that wasn't on many people's radar until now. It's how the media works ... we routinely see the victim of the month dominate the media, even though the same crime is committed many times every day on victims that no one will hear of nationally. JonBenet. Jessica. Natalie. Etc. Etc. Etc. These cases garner so much attention because people can't grasp the sheer quantity of murder/rape/kidnapping victims, so they focus on one. That's how most people are built emotionally. It's not fair, but it's how we cope. Vick is the personification of how we feel about dogs.
We're dealing with emotions, so there's little rationality to it.

also, people hunting animals is a lot more humane than what animals do to each other in nature.

[hydro]

and for those people that say hunting is for the meat.. horse****.. hunters hunt for the thrill of the kill...

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are beyond wrong. I live in the "hicks" and maybe the city slickers come here for the fun of it but i personally know friends who had family members that put food on his table because of hunting. They weren't well of and lived on what he hunted sometimes. So comment on what you dont know...

[Tatonka]

so is your arguement about vicks persecution and racial issues or is it about the fact that you dislike hunting?

i mean clearly is sounds like your conflicted on what your arguing about..

vick got 18 months and will probably get half of that reduced for good behavior or something else ridiculous end result is that he got off easy, EVEN IF he has to serve his whole sentence.

[Captain gameboy]

Its definitely no excuse I agree. But just as this issue is being addressed with such a firm hand, why cant the root causes be dealt with in the same way? Does anyone really believe that guns, drugs, thuggery, gangs and such can't be controlled? Because its these things that produce individuals with moral compasses that are out of wack. And that certainly wont change when that person suddenly has millions of dollars. My point is that all the important stuff is left alone while the bi-products are being highlighted.

You want his family arrested?

That's where most civilized humans handle this kind of "important stuff."

Vick is a gd moron. He has been from day one. Anyone who has been around him knows it.

If you hand a moron a bunch of money he is still a moron.
It just gives him more options to exercise his moronocity.

[dolphan117]

IMO this has little to nothing to do with race. If Peyton had just pled guilty to the charges that Vick did I would have the same reaction that I did with Vick. Kick him out and don't let him come back.

And as to the hunting vs what Vick did thing... IMO its an awful comparison. Hunters don't track down deer, make them fight each other for fun, and then cruelly kill the ones that lose by electrocuting them and then drowning them in a tub.

There is no comparison between what Vick did and people who go out and hunt animals that are then used for meat.......... Plus I can tell you where I live if hunters didn't hunt deer it would scree the ecology all up. Deer reproduce faster then the food supply they live off of and if we stopped hunting them there would be more deer then the land could support. This actually started to become a problem a while back and in certain areas the local government was actually paying people to kill deer because overpopulation was starting to become a real problem.

Unfortunately many of the people who bash hunting know little to nothing about it and the effects it has on the local animal population/food supply.

[MikeInRoch]

The fact is people are always so quick to rip someone apart ESPECIALLY when their colored... YES I SAID IT! and its a fact that is greatly affecting this case whether ppl want to admit it or not.

No, it's not a fact. It's your opinion. And with absolutely no evidence to support it. Which makes very likely to be completely wrong.

[Mr. Pink]

Here's why what Vick did was so "wrong and unacceptable." Fido is cute. Society in this country thinks of dogs as pets, meanwhile countries like China eat them.

Much like we eat cows. And cows are kept SO very humanely. Kept in basically pens where all they can do is eat and eat and get fatter. Til they reach a size deemed large enough and get a sledgehammer to the head. Yes, I know there are now more humane ways of killing the cattle than that, but that was the main way of killing them as little as 30 years ago. But that example is ok, right?

Remember the argument about tuna? Yeah, we can only eat the tuna caught in dolphin safe nets. Why? Killing the tuna is ok, but dolphins is wrong?

Then there's **** fighting, which no one really makes any mention over ever. So that must be ok too.

There's all kinds of double standards involved in society based on public perception. If Vick did this in some other country, no one would have cared. Problem is, he did it here where it's legally wrong. He got caught, therefore he has to deal with it's punishment. It's not like he nor his buddies did not know that if they got caught they wouldn't get in trouble over it. He eph'd up, pure and simple. And is using his celebrity to get a relatively light sentence.

Breaking the law is breaking the law. When you're a member of society you know what is morally and legally acceptable and just because you're the poster child of some major sport doesn't mean you're immune or above the law.

What a waste of talent. Million dollar body 10 cent mind. Shame.

[Mahdi]

No, it's not a fact. It's your opinion. And with absolutely no evidence to support it. Which makes very likely to be completely wrong.
Do I really need evidence to prove that theres bias against colored people in the US? And that it tends to trickle into how ppl view a colored criminal vs a white criminal? Heres a simple example... when a black athlete commits a crime he's tagged as a thug... what do u call a white athlete who commits a crime?

[Captain gameboy]

.... when a black athlete commits a crime he's tagged as a thug... what do u call a white athlete who commits a crime?

A Dolphin.

[LtBillsFan66]

what do u call a white athlete who commits a crime?

Rare.

[MikeInRoch]

Do I really need evidence to prove that theres bias against colored people in the US? And that it tends to trickle into how ppl view a colored criminal vs a white criminal? Heres a simple example... when a black athlete commits a crime he's tagged as a thug... what do u call a white athlete who commits a crime?

You need evidence that there is bias in this case, yes. Because some people are biased does NOT imply that everyone is, or that it is always present.

[MikeInRoch]

A Dolphin.

Or Raider. Or Cowboy.

[Mr. Pink]

Or Raider. Or Cowboy.

Don't forget Raven.

[dolphan117]

Or Raider. Or Cowboy.The correct answer is "a Bengal"

[Tatonka]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are beyond wrong. I live in the "hicks" and maybe the city slickers come here for the fun of it but i personally know friends who had family members that put food on his table because of hunting. They weren't well of and lived on what he hunted sometimes. So comment on what you dont know...

the people your talking about are few and far between and are not the majority of hunters anymore..

imho..

and i live plenty close to the "hicks" as well. but its besides the point and is not what this is about.

[El Guapo]

Do I really need evidence to prove that theres bias against colored people in the US?

If you are going to make the accusation, then yes, back it up with evidence. Just because you type it, does that make it a fact?

And, no, I'm not saying there aren't racist people, but what I am saying is, there is not a presumption of bias. To throw such a statement out there, I would say you do need to prove it.

A basic tenet in proving anything is to provide proof/evidence. Hence, prove: to establish the existence, truth, or validity of (as by evidence or logic) <prove a theorem> <the charges were never proved in court>

[feldspar]

So its ok to kill some animals but not others? Which can we and which cant?

If you killed my pet, I would at least send you to the hospital...at least. What you don't seem to understand is the context under which Vick was operating. He was TORTURING animals, not just killing them. Dog fighting is a form of torture. That is something that is taboo in this country, and deservedly so IMO.

Another bogus argument is the one that tries to excuse dogfighting on the premise that "there are a lot worse things." It's irrelevent. Dog fighting is wrong even though serial killers are worse. It's like saying to the judge "Hey, I only forced her to give oral sex, I didn't sodomize her." The fact that there are worse things is the weakest argument there is, and it doesn't excuse anything.

Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with race. This is a Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton argument, people who defend anyone for anything based solely on the color of their skin. Vick IS guilty of what he is accused of, and to be honest, he is lucky as hell that they allowed him to cop a plea. There were three guys ready to testify against him...Now, Vick is ready to roll over on anybody and everybody to lessen his own punishment.

Vick is guilty. What he did is reprehensible. He is in no way a victim.

He is in no way a victim.

He is going to jail for what he did according to the law, a law I happen to agree with. If you don't agree with this law, I guess you agree that the torturing of animals is OK.

[Mahdi]

If you killed my pet, I would at least send you to the hospital...at least. What you don't seem to understand is the context under which Vick was operating. He was TORTURING animals, not just killing them. Dog fighting is a form of torture. That is something that is taboo in this country, and deservedly so IMO.

Another bogus argument is the one that tries to excuse dogfighting on the premise that "there are a lot worse things." It's irrelevent. Dog fighting is wrong even though serial killers are worse. It's like saying to the judge "Hey, I only forced her to give oral sex, I didn't sodomize her." The fact that there are worse things is the weakest argument there is, and it doesn't excuse anything.

Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with race. This is a Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton argument, people who defend anyone for anything based solely on the color of their skin. Vick IS guilty of what he is accused of, and to be honest, he is lucky as hell that they allowed him to cop a plea. There were three guys ready to testify against him...Now, Vick is ready to roll over on anybody and everybody to lessen his own punishment.

Vick is guilty. What he did is reprehensible. He is in no way a victim.

He is in no way a victim.

He is going to jail for what he did according to the law, a law I happen to agree with. If you don't agree with this law, I guess you agree that the torturing of animals is OK.
Its not that I dont agree with the law or am ok with the torturing of animals. I'm saying that I dont see a difference between hunters killing for sport and dog fighting for sport.

[Confused]

another post by a race-baiting liberal d-bag. Its posts like these that made me leave Buffalobills.com's boards.
Here's a news flash....Vick is a knappy-headed ho!!!!!!

[hydro]

Its not that I dont agree with the law or am ok with the torturing of animals. I'm saying that I dont see a difference between hunters killing for sport and dog fighting for sport.

The government does...

[Dr. Lecter]

Its not that I dont agree with the law or am ok with the torturing of animals. I'm saying that I dont see a difference between hunters killing for sport and dog fighting for sport.

1. Hunters rarely torture the animals.
2. The anmals hunted are then used for food.
3. Often the hunting is to establish poulation control.
4. The animals are not raised to kill one another, using other animals (small dogs, cats, rabbits, etc.) as training bait.

[Mad Bomber]

So its ok to kill some animals but not others? Which can we and which cant?
Dogfighting is a federal FELONY. Not a misdemeanor, but FELONY. That makes it NOT ok.

[Tatonka]

feldspar.. great ****ing post.

and again, mahdi.. you threw race into a debate but i dont even think you know what your trying to argue..

i think your issue is that you dont agree with hunting.. that has nothing to do with mike vick being a douchebag that is going to jail.

[PECKERWOOD]

Although I don't agree with the actions of Michael Vick, I also do NOT agree with the way he has been villanized, and I honestly think its pure BS. There are criminals all over the world treated with more respect than Vick has been treated with. I wonder if Peyton Manning committed these crimes what the reaction would be. In fact isn't it a common "caucasian" sport to go out shooting helpless animals in the name of fun? But I guess its ok because Deer, wolves, bears, etc don't roll over and fetch. The fact is people are always so quick to rip someone apart ESPECIALLY when their colored... YES I SAID IT! and its a fact that is greatly affecting this case whether ppl want to admit it or not. Also, Vick is being used as an example to the rest of the league and although I do agree that there should be an example made of some ppl who are constantly breaking laws in the NFL I don't think that Vick should be it and not so harshly. In fact I think that Willis McGahee is a MUCH WORSE human being than Vick is. Having kids and abandoning them routinely IMO is mush worse than Vick's crimes. I really wonder what everyone expects, society is so violent these days, is it really crazy that some ppl might enjoy dog fighting. How about cleaning up the streets and getting rid of the real criminals that are gunning down HUMANS on a daily basis! Also how about ridding the communities of gangs and guns and drugs.... so that people like Vick and others in the league don't have to grow up in situations that make them immune to such things. It seems the priority is nailing the guys who are actually making something of themselves and getting out of those dangerous communities instead of those who are creating it.


Im sorry, but people's perspective on this issue is way out of wack compared to the BIG PICTURE... and making Vick into this notorious criminal is ridiculous.


Been fighting any dogs lately Mahdi?

[PECKERWOOD]

Its not that I dont agree with the law or am ok with the torturing of animals. I'm saying that I dont see a difference between hunters killing for sport and dog fighting for sport.


Big difference.

Bears and deers are wild and untamable.

Dogs are tamable and usually very friendly with people if trained properly.

Hunters don't torture their food. i.e. Choke, strangle, eloctrocute or drown their food in 5 gallon buckets full of water.

Deer and Bears can be used as food and their hides are of general value as well.

Vick was also into gambling which is a huge no no for any major professional sport.

- This is NOT about race.

[Mahdi]

feldspar.. great ****ing post.

and again, mahdi.. you threw race into a debate but i dont even think you know what your trying to argue..

i think your issue is that you dont agree with hunting.. that has nothing to do with mike vick being a douchebag that is going to jail.
Tatonka I suppose you are right.... I have mixed feelings on the issue which is evident in my arguments. I did say that I believe race is a factor in this case, which may or may not be true. I was always open to other peoples views on this topic and after reading several responses I can agree with many of them. I still maintain however that I personally have trouble seeing the difference between hunting for SPORT (not food) and the dog fighting ring. Again, in the end its a dead animal that was killed for a purpose other than necessity.

I suppose in a way I was playing devils advocate on this issue, not to stir up trouble, but to get a variety of opinions and arguments from other people. To clarify I DO NOT condone what he did, i guess it just bothers me that things like this can be avoided before they happen if the powers that be actually cared to take care of the root problems instead of just dealing with the bi-products. Again Im not trying to excuse his actions, he should be punished for committing an act he knew was illegal and more than that the level of cruelty involved. I am a pet owner, i have cats and I have had several dogs so I dont like what he did anymore than anyone else. Although I sounded like I was convinced with my arguments when I started the thread but that was only to get a variety of opinions on the subject since like I said have mixed feelings. To sum up, I still think that hunting should be banned because its just as cruel as dog fighting, Vick should certainly be punished, race is most likely not an issue.

Should Vick be banned from the NFL for life for this though?

[Cntrygal]

A human killing an animal in its natural habitat in no way compares to humans that chain, beat, maim, kill animals or train them to kill other animals (or people if they got in the way) for money or pleasure.


And as a sidenote: Hunters have to have "tags" (which they register & pay for) to be able to legally hunt, or they could end up in jail.

And Yes - Vick should never be allowed on the football field again.

[tat2dmike77]

I'm sick of this crap already. If manning or brady had done the same thing then there would be same reaction from the public. This is not a race issue but it has been turned into one, which is not surprising.

Hunters are not allowed to hunt all year. I personally am not a hunter nor do i have the urge to. But i know people that hunt and thier only allowed to kill so many deer per season. Thier also only allowed to hunt at certain times of the year. To compare this to hunting is just reaching. Your reaching for an excuse to save vicks ass.

So if you don't think this is a big deal then go to this web site and show these photos to your parents, wife/husband, boyfriend/girlfriend, children, friends, co-worker, grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles, brother and sisters. And explain to them why you don't think this a big deal. Just to warn you there are very graphic pictures on this site that show the aftermath of dogfighting. http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

[Ingtar33]

by your logic the romans feeding the Christians to lions in gladiator arenas was just a bit of fun

they both are death for entertainment, and gambling

i mean lets be serious, why not open a child death-fight ring in your back yard. you can get a few orphans, file their teeth to points, starve them and beat them. breed them, and then if they don't put up a good fight for you, you get to torture them to death.

give me a break dude.

i don't care if your skin is black - white - green - or purple. this is barbaric and disgusting behavior.

[hydro]

Tatonka I suppose you are right.... I have mixed feelings on the issue which is evident in my arguments. I did say that I believe race is a factor in this case, which may or may not be true. I was always open to other peoples views on this topic and after reading several responses I can agree with many of them. I still maintain however that I personally have trouble seeing the difference between hunting for SPORT (not food) and the dog fighting ring. Again, in the end its a dead animal that was killed for a purpose other than necessity.

I suppose in a way I was playing devils advocate on this issue, not to stir up trouble, but to get a variety of opinions and arguments from other people. To clarify I DO NOT condone what he did, i guess it just bothers me that things like this can be avoided before they happen if the powers that be actually cared to take care of the root problems instead of just dealing with the bi-products. Again Im not trying to excuse his actions, he should be punished for committing an act he knew was illegal and more than that the level of cruelty involved. I am a pet owner, i have cats and I have had several dogs so I dont like what he did anymore than anyone else. Although I sounded like I was convinced with my arguments when I started the thread but that was only to get a variety of opinions on the subject since like I said have mixed feelings. To sum up, I still think that hunting should be banned because its just as cruel as dog fighting, Vick should certainly be punished, race is most likely not an issue.

Should Vick be banned from the NFL for life for this though?

No matter how strongly you feel that hunting should be banned, there will always be hunting because it has a purpose. WE NEED it to keep the population down, otherwise the earth would become a terrible horror flick. ATTACK OF THE DEER!

http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2006/oct/deer/four300.jpg

[mybills]

Hey Mahdi, are you an African American?

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

I could not give any less of a crap about what color Mike Vick's skin is.

And shame on you for making this a racial issue when it isn't. YOU are the racist.

So you think we should give him another free pass because of his skin color?

I don't think anyone deserves a free pass, ever. He knew what he was doing

was highly illegal, and sunk a lot of money into doing it.


Personally I agree that there are double standards with regard to dog fighting vs. hunting (and even eating beef, pork, chicken....thousands of animals are slaughtered every day for our benefit).....I really don't know why dogs are regarded as "sacred" in this country. But the bottom line is they are....and it's illegal to participate in/sponsor dog fighting. So why would anyone (especially someone with so much to lose as a professional athlete) do it? I am sure those who do participate are as diverse in color/ethnic background as any other group.
Why does it matter that Vick is a black man? It doesn't.

[justasportsfan]

Vick was hired by a white man who gave him millions of dollars . THe white man also gave him millions in endorsements and hopefully become a role model. So how is this a racial thing again.

After all is said and done, after Vick does his time, he'll still be a millionaire. Boohoo.

[Gunzlingr]

I read two pages of this assinine thread, and that is enough to know it has to be about the stupidest thing ever posted here.

[LtFinFan66]

:mehmeh:

You have got to be kidding me with this thread

[MikeInRoch]

I did say that I believe race is a factor in this case, which may or may not be true.

Well, before you said it was a 'fact'. So at least you've backed down from that.


I suppose in a way I was playing devils advocate on this issue, not to stir up trouble, but to get a variety of opinions and arguments from other people.

Why else does anyone play devil's advocate?


To sum up, I still think that hunting should be banned because its just as cruel as dog fighting, Vick should certainly be punished, race is most likely not an issue.

Wait now - is it or isn't it?

[Dr. Lecter]

Mahdi, are you a vegetarian or a vegan?

[ZEUS]

I can't believe I read this whole thread. Mahdi, your argument is pathetic in every way, but I'm glad you have the minority opinion. As far as hunting and dog fighting, no one else has made this point. The dogs have no choice. They have no opprotunity to escape and if they choose not to fight or just defend themselves, they're tortured and killed. Disgusting to treat an animal that way. An animal that is hunted by true "sportsman" makes a choice in it's fate. It can choose to walk a different trail that day. I do like deer meat, but I don't hunt because I don't want to kill an animal. So I'm not defending hunters. As far as a racial issue and fixing the environment these thugs come from. Get real. They make their own choices and have to be responsible for those choices. Do me a favor and stay in Canada, we have enough liberal/socialist here already.

[Valerie]

It's not a black and white thing and I for one would hate Peyton Manning if he was caught doing this too. It's not about the color of the person, but his/her actions. And, just for the record, I don't like legal hunting either.

[Mahdi]

I can't believe I read this whole thread. Mahdi, your argument is pathetic in every way, but I'm glad you have the minority opinion. As far as hunting and dog fighting, no one else has made this point. The dogs have no choice. They have no opprotunity to escape and if they choose not to fight or just defend themselves, they're tortured and killed. Disgusting to treat an animal that way. An animal that is hunted by true "sportsman" makes a choice in it's fate. It can choose to walk a different trail that day. I do like deer meat, but I don't hunt because I don't want to kill an animal. So I'm not defending hunters. As far as a racial issue and fixing the environment these thugs come from. Get real. They make their own choices and have to be responsible for those choices. Do me a favor and stay in Canada, we have enough liberal/socialist here already.
They have a choice as to which trail to take that day? was that a joke? They have the opportunity to escape? a bullet? is this deer named Neo? And they are choosing their fate? WOW I didnt realize deer and bears were so clairvoyant.

[LtBillsFan66]

With modern weaponry and long distance scopes, I laugh at calling hunting a sport or for "sportsmen." I'm not against hunting, but that part it a joke.

If you chase down your prey and kill it with a rock, your bare hands, or a homemade weapon, then you can call yourself a sportsman.

[MikeInRoch]

I know it's just anecdotal evidence, but none of the hunters I know (and I know quite a few) let any of the meat from anything they hunt go to waste. Does it matter if they *need* to hunt to feed their family?

[LtBillsFan66]

I know it's just anecdotal evidence, but none of the hunters I know (and I know quite a few) let any of the meat from anything they hunt go to waste. Does it matter if they *need* to hunt to feed their family?
Even the anus?

[njsue]

Although I don't agree with the actions of Michael Vick, I also do NOT agree with the way he has been villanized, and I honestly think its pure BS. There are criminals all over the world treated with more respect than Vick has been treated with. I wonder if Peyton Manning committed these crimes what the reaction would be. In fact isn't it a common "caucasian" sport to go out shooting helpless animals in the name of fun? But I guess its ok because Deer, wolves, bears, etc don't roll over and fetch. The fact is people are always so quick to rip someone apart ESPECIALLY when their colored... YES I SAID IT! and its a fact that is greatly affecting this case whether ppl want to admit it or not. Also, Vick is being used as an example to the rest of the league and although I do agree that there should be an example made of some ppl who are constantly breaking laws in the NFL I don't think that Vick should be it and not so harshly. In fact I think that Willis McGahee is a MUCH WORSE human being than Vick is. Having kids and abandoning them routinely IMO is mush worse than Vick's crimes. I really wonder what everyone expects, society is so violent these days, is it really crazy that some ppl might enjoy dog fighting. How about cleaning up the streets and getting rid of the real criminals that are gunning down HUMANS on a daily basis! Also how about ridding the communities of gangs and guns and drugs.... so that people like Vick and others in the league don't have to grow up in situations that make them immune to such things. It seems the priority is nailing the guys who are actually making something of themselves and getting out of those dangerous communities instead of those who are creating it.


Im sorry, but people's perspective on this issue is way out of wack compared to the BIG PICTURE... and making Vick into this notorious criminal is ridiculous.


Vick is more like a Notorious Animal Killer for profit! :down:

[MikeInRoch]

Even the anus?

Sure, round roast.

[ZEUS]

They have a choice as to which trail to take that day? was that a joke? They have the opportunity to escape? a bullet? is this deer named Neo? And they are choosing their fate? WOW I didnt realize deer and bears were so clairvoyant.

No, it wasn't a joke. Obviously the animal doesn't stand much chance once the bullet is fired. But, it's only by chance that the animal will cross paths with the hunter. A fighting dog has no opprotunity, it either fights and lives, dies trying, or is killed because it is not aggressive enough. All of which is a situation it was forced into. You can't make a deer come into your sites. As far as the term "sportsman." I was trying to exclude people that hunt baiting animals or kill animals in a closed pen and call it hunting

[feldspar]

If we start from the premise that dog fighting is wrong, I don't see the purpose of this thread. Everyone agrees that it is wrong, it's against the law, and it SHOULD be against the law. What happens when you break the law? You go to jail, pay fines, become stigmatized in some way, etc. This is all Vick's doing, and he did it to himself. I can't see how you should even to try to defend the nasty things he admitted to doing. A more realistic topic would be to argue whether or not he should be given another chance to play in the NFL. A lot of people will not be able to forgive him, right or wrong.

Over 99% of the population (a figure I've made up but seems right to me) is against dog fighting. This is why Vick has lost all of his endorsement deals. People don't like what he did. Furthermore, "people" don't really know Vick. They see what he has done, and they judge him accordingly; therefore, the people attached to Vick in the business world are abandoning ship and are avoiding him like the plague not only because they don't agree with what he has done (to say the least), but it's good business to separate yourself from the image that Vick now has and will never be able to separate himself from.

[DynaPaul]

Hunting is legal and people generally EAT the animals they kill.

[Confused]

mahdi bad repped me for calling him a liberal. no arguement to the race-baiting douchebag comment though.

[Mahdi]

mahdi bad repped me for calling him a liberal. no arguement to the race-baiting douchebag comment though.
Actually I didnt bad rep you... If I did I would have signed my name.

[Dr. Lecter]

Mahdi, are you a vegetarian?

[Mahdi]

Mahdi, are you a vegetarian?
no