How about our CBs/Safties!?!?

[raphael120]

We made TO drop balls left and right, and now Chad Johnson!?

Damn, say what you want about the Bills, but our secondary is DAMN good! I can honestly say we should be afraid of NO ONE! (besides Brady/Moss) Haha.

Perry Fewell is doing damn good with this jalopy of a defense he's driving. Now as far as the offense goes, we still need to work on that red zone crap, the constant FG's is disgusting! We're going to need those TD's come tougher opponents.

GO BILLS! (BTW, I changed my negative sig, enjoy)

[RedEyE]

They definilty need to be commended though there are 8 games left to be played this season. If the secondary can stifle Moss (push off king extrodinaire) then McGee and Buffalo will have more then enough respect.

[mybills]

I :heart: McGee! I think he played better than Greer this time.

[OpIv37]

Whitner had a bad game. The first Cincy touchdown was right over him, and if Chad Johnson didn't drop that ball, it would have been a huge gain and most likely a TD cuz Whitner was out of position. Even the announcers said he took a bad angle.

The rest of them played well.

[bigbub2352]

I hate to say it but i am absolutley impressed with George Wilson, and Jabari Greer, Jabari could be a real find and Wilson i cant say enough about, he is not afraid to come up in run support, and he has been good in coverage as well for someone who hasnt played the postion, just think about the depth we will have next year with a healthy Youboty, and Thomas behind Greer and McGee, as well as Wilson and Wendling behind Simpson and Whitner, and all are signed for the next3-5yrs, we could have the makings of an excellent Secondary for years to come

[RedEyE]

Whitner had a bad game. The first Cincy touchdown was right over him, and if Chad Johnson didn't drop that ball, it would have been a huge gain and most likely a TD cuz Whitner was out of position. Even the announcers said he took a bad angle.

The rest of them played well.

Op, love ya man, but once again I think that you are being way overly critical on Whitner. This guy is the next coming of Ronnie Lott. Without him, there is more then 1 bad play on that field.

That's the dealings of playing in the secondary. One bad play and everyone negates all of the positives that he's produced throughout the game.

[OpIv37]

Op, love ya man, but once again I think that you are being way overly critical on Whitner. This guy is the next coming of Ronnie Lott. Without him, there is more then 1 bad play on that field.

That's the dealings of playing in the secondary. One bad play and everyone negates all of the positives that he's produced throughout the game.

one bad play? He had at least two or three in this game alone, and he has yet to make a play on the ball ALL YEAR, and you're calling him Ronnie Lott? I will say he's finally making some big hits over the last few games, but he's also making mistakes and is never anywhere near the ball.

I think it's the opposite- the guy clocks Chad Johnson late in the game and everyone forgets he did nothing and gave up a touchdown earlier in the game.

[mybills]

TJ got past Greer for a TD, too. :ill:

[RedEyE]

one bad play? He had at least two or three in this game alone, and he has yet to make a play on the ball ALL YEAR, and you're calling him Ronnie Lott? I will say he's finally making some big hits over the last few games, but he's also making mistakes and is never anywhere near the ball.

I think it's the opposite- the guy clocks Chad Johnson late in the game and everyone forgets he did nothing and gave up a touchdown earlier in the game.

Defensive players can't be judged on one or two plays per game. A couple of things here, keep in mind that shut outs in this league are rare and offenses are going to move the ball down the field against the best defenses regardless of how good they are. The cover 2 is designed to keep the big play from occuring and the Bills are doing an excellent job of doing that. A large part of that is becuase of the masterful play of Whitner. His abilities at STRONG safety are a force to be reckoned with. He has quick catching speed for coverage and a mindblowing delivery on the running game. Did Whitner give up some yardage yesterday? Sure, but was it it game breaking? No. he's a perfect fit for this defense and a large part of their success.

Keep in mind the Bills were playing one of the best receiving tandems in the game. They held TJ and Chad to just 93 yards combined. The Cincy runing game was non-existent and if it wasn't for the quick dumps to RB Watson, the passing game would have been equally ineffective.

[OpIv37]

TJ got past Greer for a TD, too. :ill:

actually that was on Whitner as much as Greer- Greer actually had pretty good coverage but TJ got body position on him. Whitner wasn't deep enough and the pass went right past him.

[RedEyE]

That's becasue TJ is a phenominal 2nd receiver and when you have another guy on the other side of the field by the name of Chad Johnson, you tend to suddenly get thin in the secondary. Say what you want about this secondary, but their inner game adjustment was stellar. I applaud their performance.

TJ has averaged 1005 yards over the last 3 season as a second receiver and he is on pace for 1200 yards this year. He mounted only 45 against Buffalo's D.

[OpIv37]

Defensive players can't be judged on one or two plays per game. A couple of things here, keep in mind that shut outs in this league are rare and offenses are going to move the ball down the field against the best defenses regardless of how good they are. The cover 2 is designed to keep the big play from occuring and the Bills are doing an excellent job of doing that. A large part of that is becuase of the masterful play of Whitner. His abilities at STRONG safety are a force to be reckoned with. He has quick catching speed for coverage and a mindblowing delivery on the running game. Did Whitner give up some yardage yesterday? Sure, but was it it game breaking? No. he's a perfect fit for this defense and a large part of their success.

Keep in mind the Bills were playing one of the best receiving tandems in the game. They held TJ and Chad to just 93 yards combined. The Cincy runing game was non-existent and if it wasn't for the quick dumps to RB Watson, the passing game would have been equally ineffective.

It's not one or two plays per game- it's many plays over several games. It's not getting anywhere near the ball over an 8 game stretch. You say Whitner helps prevent the big play, well Cincy's TD went right by him and he missed McGahee on the hole on his huge touchdown run- that's two big plays Whitner couldn't prevent.

The "bend but don't break" D also relies on the big play and Whitner has been non-existent in this regard.

[RedEyE]

It's not one or two plays per game- it's many plays over several games. It's not getting anywhere near the ball over an 8 game stretch. You say Whitner helps prevent the big play, well Cincy's TD went right by him and he missed McGahee on the hole on his huge touchdown run- that's two big plays Whitner couldn't prevent.

The "bend but don't break" D also relies on the big play and Whitner has been non-existent in this regard.

Op, you need to seriously lower your expectations. YOU CAN"T STOP EVERY PLAY. It's impossible. Is there room for improvement? Sure. But you can even argue that every best player in the league can improve oneself.

You're debate comes against a 2nd year guy that has simply helped stifle some of the best receivers in the game. I understand your point that there has been a play here or there per game, but those are going to happen disabling your point moot. There is no such thing as perfect defense week in and week out. You can only ask your defense to be the better team on the field at the end of the game. Whitner certifies that has happened the last 5 games.

[raphael120]

I agree with Op.

For an 8th overall pick, Whitner is really not doing anything more than hitting people hard, after the fact.

We have a guy in Greer who was a what, 3rd round pick? Even later? And he's making more plays?

For the draft position he was picked, Whitner is not living up to that...yet.

[RedEyE]

I agree with Op.

For an 8th overall pick, Whitner is really not doing anything more than hitting people hard, after the fact.

We have a guy in Greer who was a what, 3rd round pick? Even later? And he's making more plays?

For the draft position he was picked, Whitner is not living up to that...yet.

Well that's very conflicting of you to first commend the secondary with a thread but then call out the starting SS in a follow up post. You can't have it both ways. These corners aren't getting it done by themselves as this is mostly a zone coverage D.

So, good luck with that confusion thing.

[djjimkelly]

I agree with Op.

For an 8th overall pick, Whitner is really not doing anything more than hitting people hard, after the fact.

We have a guy in Greer who was a what, 3rd round pick? Even later? And he's making more plays?

For the draft position he was picked, Whitner is not living up to that...yet.


greer was actually a street FA we signed after draft so he was undrafted

[OpIv37]

Op, you need to seriously lower your expectations. YOU CAN"T STOP EVERY PLAY. It's impossible. Is there room for improvement? Sure. But you can even argue that every best player in the league can improve oneself.

You're debate comes against a 2nd year guy that has simply helped stifle some of the best receivers in the game. I understand your point that there has been a play here or there per game, but those are going to happen disabling your point moot. There is no such thing as perfect defense week in and week out. You can only ask your defense to be the better team on the field at the end of the game. Whitner certifies that has happened the last 5 games.

I know you can't stop every play- I'm talking about plays he COULD have made- he was in position on the McGahee play and got beat. He was out of position on Cincy's touchdown. He took a bad angle on Johnson's drop. Those ARE stoppable plays.

[RedEyE]

I know you can't stop every play- I'm talking about plays he COULD have made- he was in position on the McGahee play and got beat. He was out of position on Cincy's touchdown. He took a bad angle on Johnson's drop. Those ARE stoppable plays.

AND?!! I defer back to my earlier posts. Bad plays happen, it's what happens at the ende of the day that needs to be evaluated..I have nothing else to say on the topic.

[OpIv37]

AND?!! I defer back to my earlier posts. Bad plays happen, it's what happens at the ende of the day that needs to be evaluated..I have nothing else to say on the topic.

are you suggesting that players aren't accountable when they make bad plays? That's just ridiculous. Bad plays happen when the offensive player makes a better play- that's excusable. Mistakes by our players are never excusable.

[justasportsfan]

this was McGees best game as cb of the bills ever.

[OpIv37]

this was McGees best game as cb of the bills ever.

didn't he return an INT for a TD the last time we played Cincy? I don't know if it was his best game as a bill but he certainly played well.

[alohabillsfan]

Acutually, I believe that it was Wilson that took the wrong angle but I would have to look at it again...

[RedEyE]

are you suggesting that players aren't accountable when they make bad plays? That's just ridiculous. Bad plays happen when the offensive player makes a better play- that's excusable. Mistakes by our players are never excusable.

Nice of you to make suggestions for me, but actually that's not at all what I'm stating.

Players are evaluated on an overall performance as incidents are looked at as isolated displays.

Let's take a look at Lynch for instance. One might rate Lynch as having had a great game (I know I would), but did he have a perfect game? No. There are individual runs and blocks that he could have done better.

The difference between Lynch and Whitner in this case is Whitner's position spotlights his every play. He can have 45 plays in a row near perfect, but if he misplays the 46 and 47, it's much easier to highlight the negative because of the impact it has on the game.

If Lynch fails to hit the hole twice in 25 plays resulting in a loss, this is chalked up as a lesson need learned. I believe the same can be said for defensive positions.

You need to understand the implications of each position and take that to heart before analyzing.

That is what I'm suggesting, Op.

[mybills]

McGee Earning #1 Corner Stripes
http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5493

[OpIv37]

Nice of you to make suggestions for me, but actually that's not at all what I'm stating.

Players are evaluated on an overall performance as incidents are looked at as isolated displays.

Let's take a look at Lynch for instance. One might rate Lynch as having had a great game (I know I would), but did he have a perfect game? No. There are individual runs and blocks that he could have done better.

The difference between Lynch and Whitner in this case is Whitner's position spotlights his every play. He can have 45 plays in a row near perfect, but if he misplays the 46 and 47, it's much easier to highlight the negative because of the impact it has on the game.

If Lynch fails to hit the hole twice in 25 plays resulting in a loss, this is chalked up as a lesson need learned. I believe the same can be said for defensive positions.

You need to understand the implications of each position and take that to heart before analyzing.

That is what I'm suggesting, Op.

Whitner on Sunday: 0 INT's, 0 forced fumbles, 0 sacks, 0 tackles for losses, 0 stuffs in the run game, 0 knockdowns, 1 TD thrown over his head, one bad angle where he got bailed out by a drop. Mental breakdowns are inexcusable, no matter how few times they happened, plus, unlike Lynch, Whitner doesn't have any big plays to offset those breakdowns.

You're calling the guy Ronnie Lott and he hasn't made one big play in EIGHT GAMES. Not ONE.

[RedEyE]

Whitner on Sunday: 0 INT's, 0 forced fumbles, 0 sacks, 0 tackles for losses, 0 stuffs in the run game, 0 knockdowns, 1 TD thrown over his head, one bad angle where he got bailed out by a drop. Mental breakdowns are inexcusable, no matter how few times they happened, plus, unlike Lynch, Whitner doesn't have any big plays to offset those breakdowns.

You're calling the guy Ronnie Lott and he hasn't made one big play in EIGHT GAMES. Not ONE.

Ok, let's talk stats, Op. Here's some persepctive:

Whitner is the 4th SS in the league in tackles. Ironically enough, Whitner finished 4th in SS tackles in 15 game starts last year.

1) Sammy Knight (Jax): 59 tackles, 53 solo, 5 assists, 9 pdf, 1 ff, 2 ints
2) LaRon Landry (Wash): 57 tackles, 36 solo, 21 assists, 1.5 sacks
3) Atari Bigby (GB): 55 tackles, 43 solo, 12 assists, 4 pdf, 2 ff, 1 int
4) Donte Whitner(BUF): 55 tackels, 38 solo and 18 assists

While he doesn't posses all of the bonuses like int's and pdfs, those stats are just a game away. Keep in mind that this is a differnt style defense that hardly requires him to blitz (much like Gregg Williams 62 D) and usually requires him in the box against the run.

Regardless, we can sit here and go back and forth, but until you and I sit and review tape together, there is no way you are going to convince me otherwise, anymore then I'm likely to convince you.

[OpIv37]

Ok, let's talk stats, Op. Here's some persepctive:

Whitner is the 4th SS in the league in tackles. Ironically enough, Whitner finished 4th in SS tackles in 15 game starts last year.

1) Sammy Knight (Jax): 59 tackles, 53 solo, 5 assists, 9 pdf, 1 ff, 2 ints
2) LaRon Landry (Wash): 57 tackles, 36 solo, 21 assists, 1.5 sacks
3) Atari Bigby (GB): 55 tackles, 43 solo, 12 assists, 4 pdf, 2 ff, 1 int
4) Donte Whitner(BUF): 55 tackels, 38 solo and 18 assists

While he doesn't posses all of the bonuses like int's and pdfs, those stats are just a game away. Keep in mind that this is a differnt style defense that hardly requires him to blitz (much like Gregg Williams 62 D) and usually requires him in the box against the run.

Regardless, we can sit here and go back and forth, but until you and I sit and review tape together, there is no way you are going to convince me otherwise, anymore then I'm likely to convince you.

true. But tackles by a safety only indicate that the front 4 isn't stopping the D, or that they're giving up completions underneath. I don't expect the guy to return an INT for a touchdown and force a fumble every week, but it seems to me that for the #8 overall pick, he should have a few more big plays and a few less mental mistakes.

[Mitchy moo]

It's not one or two plays per game- it's many plays over several games. It's not getting anywhere near the ball over an 8 game stretch. You say Whitner helps prevent the big play, well Cincy's TD went right by him and he missed McGahee on the hole on his huge touchdown run- that's two big plays Whitner couldn't prevent.

The "bend but don't break" D also relies on the big play and Whitner has been non-existent in this regard.

I think your posts are driving people away. They come on here to talk Bills football and have fun but you dwell on all the negatives and then say oh the rest of the team was great. Spend a little more time on the great part and a little less time on the bad part. We all like constructive critics but you are way over the top. Indy and NE's guys blew lots of tackes and coverages yesterday as well so I guess they all suck too, right??

Personally I think we have a group of hard hitting guys that make the opposing receiver's hear footsteps. We are neutralizing all the big name receivers and punishing them as well. There isn't much more than they can do than that as well. Yes they blow a play here and there but in general no one wants to go out there and jump for a ball against us, it's suicide.

[Mitchy moo]

I think your posts are driving people away. They come on here to talk Bills football and have fun but you dwell on all the negatives and then say oh the rest of the team was great. Spend a little more time on the great part and a little less time on the bad part. We all like constructive critics but you are way over the top. Indy and NE's guys blew lots of tackes and coverages yesterday as well so I guess they all suck too, right??

Personally I think we have a group of hard hitting guys that make the opposing receiver's hear footsteps. We are neutralizing all the big name receivers and punishing them as well. There isn't much more than they can do than that as well. Yes they blow a play here and there but in general no one wants to go out there and jump for a ball against us, it's suicide.

BTW, the day you can say you had george Wilson / greer picked out as a top notch starter is the day I'll believe you. The coaches are getting everything out of this group and we have been getting some guys back now. I give credit when it's due and my hats off to OUR team.

[OpIv37]

I think your posts are driving people away. They come on here to talk Bills football and have fun but you dwell on all the negatives and then say oh the rest of the team was great. Spend a little more time on the great part and a little less time on the bad part. We all like constructive critics but you are way over the top. Indy and NE's guys blew lots of tackes and coverages yesterday as well so I guess they all suck too, right??

Personally I think we have a group of hard hitting guys that make the opposing receiver's hear footsteps. We are neutralizing all the big name receivers and punishing them as well. There isn't much more than they can do than that as well. Yes they blow a play here and there but in general no one wants to go out there and jump for a ball against us, it's suicide.

I've been over this before- the good parts are the good parts- they worked. There's nothing to discuss.

The bad parts need to be fixed. How to do that is a much more interesting discussion.

And if my posts are driving people away, people really need to grow a sack. I'm one guy that they don't even know on the damn Internet- no one should let posts on the Internet affect them that much.

[justasportsfan]

didn't he return an INT for a TD the last time we played Cincy? I don't know if it was his best game as a bill but he certainly played well.
and INT for a TD does't mean he shut someone down like he did yesterday.

[Mitchy moo]

I've been over this before- the good parts are the good parts- they worked. There's nothing to discuss.

The bad parts need to be fixed. How to do that is a much more interesting discussion.

And if my posts are driving people away, people really need to grow a sack. I'm one guy that they don't even know on the damn Internet- no one should let posts on the Internet affect them that much.

Your right but punching them in the face with good hard logic is a sure way to make problems. You could be a little softer and talk with people. You literally over run them and smother them, seriously. It doesn't bother me at all, I get and give beatings all day so no big deal. It's just some advice that I thought I'd pass along, take it as you will (because you will).

[RedEyE]

true. But tackles by a safety only indicate that the front 4 isn't stopping the D, or that they're giving up completions underneath. I don't expect the guy to return an INT for a touchdown and force a fumble every week, but it seems to me that for the #8 overall pick, he should have a few more big plays and a few less mental mistakes.

And I can understand your point, but again, to keep things in perspective, what has Michael Huff done in Oakland? He was taken as a true top 10 player the same draft as Whitner (#7 over-all). It's all relative.

[RedEyE]

I think your posts are driving people away. They come on here to talk Bills football and have fun but you dwell on all the negatives and then say oh the rest of the team was great. Spend a little more time on the great part and a little less time on the bad part. We all like constructive critics but you are way over the top. Indy and NE's guys blew lots of tackes and coverages yesterday as well so I guess they all suck too, right??

Personally I think we have a group of hard hitting guys that make the opposing receiver's hear footsteps. We are neutralizing all the big name receivers and punishing them as well. There isn't much more than they can do than that as well. Yes they blow a play here and there but in general no one wants to go out there and jump for a ball against us, it's suicide.

Op is hardly driving me away. In fact, I usually will open one of his posts well before many others. Op, while challenging at times, can instigate a good debate in a healthy way. I'm not aggravated by his opposition. We are merely having a friendly debate over something that we both invest a lot of our time in.

[Ickybaluky]

I think Whitner is a good, young player, but if he wants to be considered among the best he has to start making some plays when the ball is in the air. He only has 1 interception in his career.

[patmoran2006]

Whitner = solid against run, bad against the pass (so far)

Overall, you MUST be impressed with this secondary.

McGee is putting last year behind him, Greer is a total gem, and I'm liking the way that Wilson is learning the safety position.

[mybills]

actually that was on Whitner as much as Greer- Greer actually had pretty good coverage but TJ got body position on him. Whitner wasn't deep enough and the pass went right past him.
After watching it again last night, I disagree that it was Whitner's fault at all. Greer was right there and didn't make the stop. Whitner wasn't near him and didn't pick it off or anything, but when the ball got past him and on it's way into TJ's hands it was totally up to Greer to do something and he failed.