Ngata = F'n BEASTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[patmoran2006]

Anyone watch that game last night? Or Watch a lot of Raven's games this year (I have because I love rooting for McGahee to get hurt)

Anyway; Haloti Ngata is a god damn freak. Holy ****. It's year two in this league and other than MAYBE Haynesworth I'm not sure if there is a better DT in this league. BTW, he also plays DE sometimes when they go 3-4.

No disrespect to Donte Whitner, he's a pretty nice safety. But holy crap, can you imagine how sick our defensive line could be had we taken him 8th last year instead of Donte? And it's not like he's an "out of the blue" freak like Colston was for N.O. last year. Many mock drafts had us taking Ngata.

Again, flame away if you want, I'm not dissing Whitner at all. I"m speaking the truth. Schobel wouldn't see a double team all year with that monster next to him.

[DraftBoy]

3-4 DT who for the last ***** time does not fit our scheme and would not have the same effect here, plus since we lack a Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Ed Reed, Samari Rolle, and overall amazing D I doubt we'd see the same results.

[patmoran2006]

A DT who blows up the line of scrimage and can get to the QB fits in ANY SCHEME... Ngata is big, but he aint slow.

[OpIv37]

We should have drafted him instead of Whitner- Whitner is average at best.

[Devin]

NGATA!!!!

I love that kid, all I got was grief during that draft. :(

[OpIv37]

NGATA!!!!

I love that kid, all I got was grief during that draft. :(

Marv is infallible, remember?

[PECKERWOOD]

Ngata would probably still have more production than Schobel and Kelsay combined regardless of whether or not he fits the scheme and also, for a big guy let me tell ya, he can run.

[DraftBoy]

A DT who blows up the line of scrimage and can get to the QB fits in ANY SCHEME... Ngata is big, but he aint slow.
Im not saying he wouldnt do well, just saying the results would be different and he never has been a penetrater now he is more or less just bowling mf'ers over. But alot of that is he being surrounded by talent.

[DraftBoy]

NGATA!!!!

I love that kid, all I got was grief during that draft. :(

:sorry:
my bad :sadwalk:

[Devin]

Im not saying he wouldnt do well, just saying the results would be different and he never has been a penetrater now he is more or less just bowling mf'ers over. But alot of that is he being surrounded by talent.

This is true while I feel hed be effective here he doesnt have near the talent here he does in Baltimore.

[OpIv37]

Im not saying he wouldnt do well, just saying the results would be different and he never has been a penetrater now he is more or less just bowling mf'ers over. But alot of that is he being surrounded by talent.

I've never understood the logic about penetrating DT's. Here's the problem: our system requires DT's who can penetrate and rush the passer, but our DT's don't do it. So since we're not getting to the passer anyway, it seems to me that we'd be better off with big DT's who can at least eat up blockers and be disruptive.

[Slim]

My brother played agianst him in rugby for a few years. And i played agianst little brother.

[TigerJ]

I thought Ngata would be a great DT in the league. There was a time when I hoped Buffalo would draft him. Even though he's bigger than a typical Tampa 2 DT, he's quick enough and athletic enough, not to mention strong enough to succeed in any defensive scheme. That said, I'm not worrying about ancient history. Drafting had never been an exact science, and overall, I think Levy has done pretty well. He hit the trifecta this year with Lynch, Edwards and Poz, or would have at least had Poz not gotten hurt. I think in a couple years we may look back and grade the 2007 draft as one of the best ever for the Bills.

[HHURRICANE]

Anyone watch that game last night? Or Watch a lot of Raven's games this year (I have because I love rooting for McGahee to get hurt)

Anyway; Haloti Ngata is a god damn freak. Holy ****. It's year two in this league and other than MAYBE Haynesworth I'm not sure if there is a better DT in this league. BTW, he also plays DE sometimes when they go 3-4.

No disrespect to Donte Whitner, he's a pretty nice safety. But holy crap, can you imagine how sick our defensive line could be had we taken him 8th last year instead of Donte? And it's not like he's an "out of the blue" freak like Colston was for N.O. last year. Many mock drafts had us taking Ngata.

Again, flame away if you want, I'm not dissing Whitner at all. I"m speaking the truth. Schobel wouldn't see a double team all year with that monster next to him.


Hindsight is 20/20 and some people had Ngata as a stretch.

However, I was a litttle bummed last night that he wasn't a Bill.

[Oaf]

Whitner is a bum compared to this guy, but

Who would we have put at SS then? Milloy? Wire? Scott? Peters?

[VooDoo80]

Wasn't Whitner good last year? What happened to him?

[The Jokeman]

Wasn't Whitner good last year? What happened to him?
He doesn't have Nate Clements nor Ko Simpson playing with him back there. Not to mention our pass rush isn't nearly as good as it was last year.

[circlethewagons]

He doesn't have Nate Clements nor Ko Simpson playing with him back there. Not to mention our pass rush isn't nearly as good as it was last year.

Not to mention were being forced to use him as a corner in our nickel package now...

[TacklingDummy]

Ngata was the right pick at the time for the Bills.

Improved D-line = Improved secondary.

[camelcowboy]

On the brightside we could have drafted bunkley :ill:

[Philagape]

I've never understood the logic about penetrating DT's. Here's the problem: our system requires DT's who can penetrate and rush the passer, but our DT's don't do it. So since we're not getting to the passer anyway, it seems to me that we'd be better off with big DT's who can at least eat up blockers and be disruptive.

Sorry, anyone who doesn't fit the system doesn't exist.

The system is everything. The system is the water of life. The system is life itself.

[camelcowboy]

Sorry, anyone who doesn't fit the system doesn't exist.

The system is everything. The system is the water of life. The system is life itself. The system also makes the same sound as one hand clapping, and a tree falling in the forest with no one around. :rolleyes:

[The Jokeman]

On the brightside we could have drafted bunkley :ill:
Bunkley's stats compare to McCargo's. Though had we taken Bunkley we would have still had our 2nd and 3rd Round picks as we wouldn't have had to trade up to acquire John Mcargo. Assuming that draft that followed remained the same we could of then taken Roman Harper with our 2nd pick, who's now starting at SS for the Saints and stats again compare to Whitner's. We then could of used our 3rd Round pick to draft Jason Spitz whose currently the starting RG for the Green Bay Packers.

[Spiderweb]

NGATA!!!!

I love that kid, all I got was grief during that draft. :(

Ditto here.....Ngata all the way and when Whitner was selected I called my bud in Rochester, another lifelong Bills fan who I used to go to the games with back in the early 80's, just WTF was going on! I couldn't believe it.

I'm still not sold on Whitner. Being that I'm a firm believer that it all begins in the trenches, I doubt I'll ever stop ruing the day we selected Whitner over Ngata.

[colin]

i agree that ngata is a stud, but he does dissapear in games (we handled him pretty well with a C everyone wants to run out of town).

i'm a whitner fan, but we got whitner and mccargo, which i think is better than ngata and whoever else would have been there.

S is not a cheap position anymore, 3 or 4 other S's went first round in 06, miami took a guy 15th that you all would freak if was on our rosert -- whitner is better than him or Huff taken before him.

this last draft the pats took marryweather in the teens and he woul barely make OUR roster if he wasn't a 1st rounder.

so i agree ngata is a p1mp, but if you put mccargo or whitner on that fired up bmore team with all those studs around them they'd impress just as much.

whitner as SS with rolle, mccallister and reed would be a secondary that prolly would have won that game against the pats.

what we need is one corner who can play the game physically, at least one more lb (poz coming back helps) and one more guy on the Dline.

our weakness is in the back 7, if you notice after the first 3 weeks we've pretty much been very good against the run.

[eyedog]

As noted by most now the Bills f-ed up again when they pasted on Ngata. Whenever you can get a good big man you take him. There are not many walking around on this planet and you usually have to be drafting in the top-10 to get them.
And not fitting the system is bs. He can fit any system. He could come in tomorrow in our current system and be the best d-tackle on the team.

[Bills Juggernaut]

Again, flame away if you want, I'm not dissing Whitner at all.


Fine, I'll diss Whitner. I said it then and will say it again. Donte Whitner was not worth the 8th pick. He is an avaerage saftey. Nothing more and maybe a little less. He has not had a good year at all. I can't name one game that he has made a big difference in (I expect a top ten pick to have outstanding games now and then). No interceptions. No pass defended. One forced fumble. No sacks (they have blitzed him). No big bone crushing hit that changed the game. Nothing.

Ngata would have been a perfect pick (half of the perfect part was that we wouldn't have had to waste our second and third rounder on McBusto).

[EDS]

As noted by most now the Bills f-ed up again when they pasted on Ngata. Whenever you can get a good big man you take him. There are not many walking around on this planet and you usually have to be drafting in the top-10 to get them.
And not fitting the system is bs. He can fit any system. He could come in tomorrow in our current system and be the best d-tackle on the team.

Agreed. And if you have a system that doesn't fit a talent like him you change the system.

[theanswer74]

Consider the team he is on, I dont think Baltimore has ever missed on a defensive player since Ray Lewis has been on that team.

Defense is almost 100% emotion and intensity, and Ray Lewis always demands that every player play up to his emotion and intensity.

I honestly believe that any talented defensive player would be a beast playing with Ray Lewis.

Do you guys honestly think if we took Dawan Landry and Haloti Ngata instead of Whitner and Mccargo that we would be a better defense?

Im not so sure, but it is a possibility. I just give Ray Lewis and that defensive talent more credit.

[eyedog]

Are you serious ? Landry/Ngata or McCargo/Whitner ?

[theanswer74]

Are you serious ? Landry/Ngata or McCargo/Whitner ?

Why wouldnt it be serious?

I think McCargo would be amazing in Baltimore, I also think Whitner would be.

Lets all consider this, Baltimore told Whitner, atleast according to Whitner, that they would select him.

I think Whitner would be even better in Baltimore, probably pushing a probowl spot.

[blackonyx89]

Double Ori Gato Mr. Ngato!!! He's scary good!!!

[colin]

Agreed. And if you have a system that doesn't fit a talent like him you change the system.

this makes no sense.

none of the talent was on our team, so instead of chaning our system we just picked the talent that fits us.

[eyedog]

Are the current d-tackles so good that Ngata wouldn't be an upgrade, no matter what system we play ?

I don't see much difference between Whitner and Landry, and i see a lot of difference between Mccargo and Ngata. No comparison really.

[theanswer74]

Are the current d-tackles so good that Ngata wouldn't be an upgrade, no matter what system we play ?

I don't see much difference between Whitner and Landry, and i see a lot of difference between Mccargo and Ngata. No comparison really.

If you compare the amount of snaps McCargo gets to the amount Gnata gets, they are very comparable. McCargo has made some plays this year. He only plays about 30 % of the snaps because we rotate lik 5 guys at DT throughout the game.

Whitner and Landry, how can we even try to compare them? We have one guy who is fitting in an All star defense and another guy leading a young Defense.

I cant sit here and say Landry would be as good as Whitner on this team. I can say with more confidence that Whitner could go to Baltimore and be a better player becuase he wouldnt be asked to be the leader of that defense.

Its hard to compare players on opposite teams because they are in different situations. Gnata has been a force, man handling OL's, but I think mcCargo has the quickness and hands to dominate just as well as Gnata if he was in that defense or atleast got more snaps, which he wont get here, but who knows.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

As good as McCargo has been this year, I still would've taken Ngata. I still don't see why they passed him up for a safety, and not even the best one in the draft, either. Ngata was hands down the best DT in the draft and possibly one of the best college prospects in a while.

[EDS]

this makes no sense.

none of the talent was on our team, so instead of chaning our system we just picked the talent that fits us.

What doesn't make sense? The current defense lacks talent overall so instead of drafting a talented player at a need position like Ngata Marv and co. decided that safety was a bigger need because of the alleged "system" the Bills run. What I am saying is that a defensive system that does not value big, athletic, run stuffing defensive tackles is a bad system.

[Owen DeBoard]

Fine, I'll diss Whitner. I said it then and will say it again. Donte Whitner was not worth the 8th pick. He is an avaerage saftey. Nothing more and maybe a little less. He has not had a good year at all. I can't name one game that he has made a big difference in (I expect a top ten pick to have outstanding games now and then). No interceptions. No pass defended. One forced fumble. No sacks (they have blitzed him). No big bone crushing hit that changed the game. Nothing.

Ngata would have been a perfect pick (half of the perfect part was that we wouldn't have had to waste our second and third rounder on McBusto).
If Im not mistaken didnt Whitner knock Chad Johnsons shi*t talkin a** out of the game when we played the Bengals. He will hit if he gets a wide receiver to come across the middle.

[Owen DeBoard]

Anyone watch that game last night? Or Watch a lot of Raven's games this year (I have because I love rooting for McGahee to get hurt)

Anyway; Haloti Ngata is a god damn freak. Holy ****. It's year two in this league and other than MAYBE Haynesworth I'm not sure if there is a better DT in this league. BTW, he also plays DE sometimes when they go 3-4.

No disrespect to Donte Whitner, he's a pretty nice safety. But holy crap, can you imagine how sick our defensive line could be had we taken him 8th last year instead of Donte? And it's not like he's an "out of the blue" freak like Colston was for N.O. last year. Many mock drafts had us taking Ngata.

Again, flame away if you want, I'm not dissing Whitner at all. I"m speaking the truth. Schobel wouldn't see a double team all year with that monster next to him.
Your forgetting the best DT in Tommie Harris.

[Oaf]

Least we didn't draft that bum Broderick Bunkley who most said was a better fit for our D.

[Devin]

i'm a whitner fan, but we got whitner and mccargo, which i think is better than ngata and whoever else would have been there.


Better then say Ngata and Mangold?

:drool:

[colin]

What doesn't make sense? The current defense lacks talent overall so instead of drafting a talented player at a need position like Ngata Marv and co. decided that safety was a bigger need because of the alleged "system" the Bills run. What I am saying is that a defensive system that does not value big, athletic, run stuffing defensive tackles is a bad system.

dude, that's just dumb sounding.

i know ngata is a great young player, i really liked him out of the draft too, but you can't say that a system of speed and youth over size is a bad system.

colts, bears, tampa, dallas when they were on their run, kc back when shotty ran them, they were all speedy small Ds and the first 4 above played a ton of cover 2 with the first 3 (all super bowl teams including 2 winners) used tampa 2 as the base.

pat williams and sam adams are/were better than ngata (pat was my fav player for ever, and is still a stud), but our D had holes even tho we had them and a bunch of studs behind them (antoine and nate at corner, lawyer at SS, tko and london, got that was a good D). the point is no scheme is perfect and certainly no popular successful scheme in the nfl is bad.

tampa has been utterly dominant on D for over 10 years and never once had a big fat body, the colts are able to relode their D with young cheap guys and still kick but.

you can't say a scheme is bad because we passed up on guy, especially when our run d has been so good lately. our weakness is in a lack of pass D on 3rd down, and if you look at the scrubs we have in the back 7 it is no wonder.

we aren't that far off in allowing points per game vs baltimore, and our talent is miles off back there, so you can't dismiss cover 2 out of hand.