McShay rates Bills draft #1....

[Mahdi]

In the AFCE....But thats great considering they all picked ahead of us....

Have a look see...


http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3372335&categoryId=2459789&n8pe6c=2

[Saratoga Slim]

I think pretty much anyone that just grades the first 2 rounds thinks we did a spectacular job. Those who give us lower grades generally didn't like our 4th round picks.

[Mahdi]

I think pretty much anyone that just grades the first 2 rounds thinks we did a spectacular job. Those who give us lower grades generally didn't like our 4th round picks.
Well if Corner becomes a solid nickel CB for us then he will be a wise investment. With more and more teams using spread offenses you have to be able to cover and first and foremost rush the passer. Hence taking Ellis in the 3rd and Corner in the 4th.

[FlyingDutchman]

Im still steaming that Rucker was taken 3 picks before us. We would have had a perfect first 4 rounds had he fell. **** Cleveland

[justasportsfan]

In the AFCE....But thats great considering they all picked ahead of us....

Have a look see...



In other words we were lucky. Leodis and HArdy fell to us.

[Mahdi]

In other words we were lucky. Leodis and HArdy fell to us.
Id rather see it as patient drafting and sticking to your board. If they didnt get Hardy they could have had Kelly.

[Jan Reimers]

I think pretty much anyone that just grades the first 2 rounds thinks we did a spectacular job. Those who give us lower grades generally didn't like our 4th round picks.
I'm starting to like our 4th round better. Apparently, Corner is a playmaker with great ball skills who may very well make our opening day roster. And Fine, who is not the field-stretcher that most of us wanted, is the ideal sure-handed, short yardage pass catcher who should thrive in our 3-step drop system.

[Dozerdog]

I think it's pretty silly to peg a draft because "People didn't like" a 4th round pick. The coaches got personnell that fit what system they want to install.


If the Bills draft looked like this, would people complain?



1- McKelvin
2- Hardy
3- Ellis
4- Bowen
4- Oman
5- Bell
6-Corner
6- Felton (The guard we signed as an UDFA)
7-Fine
7-Johnson

then went out and signed Cox as an UDFA?

[Dozerdog]

Im still steaming that Rucker was taken 3 picks before us. We would have had a perfect first 4 rounds had he fell. **** Cleveland

How do you know Rucker is the guy the Bills were going to pick??

[Saratoga Slim]

Well if Corner becomes a solid nickel CB for us then he will be a wise investment. With more and more teams using spread offenses you have to be able to cover and first and foremost rush the passer. Hence taking Ellis in the 3rd and Corner in the 4th.

I was 100% OK with Ellis.

I also agree that Corner could turn out to be a very good nickel back, said so in another thread as well. Pat Kirwin (I think it was Pat) said on Sirius a few days ago that NFL defenses worked out of the nickel formation on 55% of plays in 2007. We really need 4 decent CBs, so as to account for injuries. With McGee, Greer, McKelvin, Will James we've got 4, and Corner gives us good depth--with the potential for growth. Not a sexy pick, but could prove to be a good one in the long run. I think this pick, together with McKelvin shows that the FO was much more concerned about our secondary's coverage ability than we here in the peanut gallery.

As for Derek Fine.....who knows. He is the only pick that I'm still questioning.

In any event, I liked our rounds 5-7. Could be a very solid draft.

[DraftBoy]

I think it's pretty silly to peg a draft because "People didn't like" a 4th round pick. The coaches got personnell that fit what system they want to install.


If the Bills draft looked like this, would people complain?



1- McKelvin
2- Hardy
3- Ellis
4- Bowen
4- Oman
5- Bell
6-Corner
6- Felton (The guard we signed as an UDFA)
7-Fine
7-Johnson

then went out and signed Cox as an UDFA?

Yes

[Dozerdog]

YesBecause the Bills didn't get "Their guy"

OK

[DraftBoy]

Because the Bills didn't get "Their guy"

OK

No because those picks aren't much better then the ones we did make. Im glad many on here have taken the view that because Buffalo takes a guy he is a good pick, but the fact is that if Miami took Corner or Fine in Round 4 we'd be laughing our asses off at them but because we did its all the sudden ok? Im sorry for having an objective point of view I suppose. I never have said the picks suck or wont be good NFL players I just think better options were available and would of preferred we went in that direction.

[Dozerdog]

We laugh at Miami because they pick stupid players in Rd 1 , 2, maybe 3


Laughing at any legit pick outside of the top 100 for any team is a bit ignorant

[FlyingDutchman]

How do you know Rucker is the guy the Bills were going to pick??

Obviously I dont know for a fact, but they had brought him in for a visit and really liked him. He is one of the best receiving TEs in the draft, is very big, and you can move him around. He was one of the last of the top TEs left. Im almost positive they would have taken him.

[FlyingDutchman]

No because those picks aren't much better then the ones we did make. Im glad many on here have taken the view that because Buffalo takes a guy he is a good pick, but the fact is that if Miami took Corner or Fine in Round 4 we'd be laughing our asses off at them but because we did its all the sudden ok? Im sorry for having an objective point of view I suppose. I never have said the picks suck or wont be good NFL players I just think better options were available and would of preferred we went in that direction.

I really think missing out on Rucker caused us to go that different direction

[Tatonka]

it would be so awesome if Fine was a total bad ass. he is really the only pick that just made go "oh what the ****!".

i hope he proves me and 99% of the other people who said the same thing wrong.

[DraftBoy]

We laugh at Miami because they pick stupid players in Rd 1 , 2, maybe 3


Laughing at any legit pick outside of the top 100 for any team is a bit ignorant

No its not. GMs make their names by making Day 2 picks work to not be scrutinized on that is ridiculous, especially if you miss on better options.

[Bill Cody]

No its not. GMs make their names by making Day 2 picks work to not be scrutinized on that is ridiculous, especially if you miss on better options.

They may make their names on day 2 but they keep their jobs by hitting on day 1 and on paper our day 1 looks solid. Fact is all 32 teams will whiff on some picks in EVERY draft. At this point we can't know which picks are whiffs and which aren't.

[Dujek]

In general I liked the Bills' draft. I'd rather they were able to draft one of the higher-ranked TEs but with the adddition of Hardy they have their big Red-Zone target, and so an absolute stud TE did not need to be a priority after that.

The Bills' off-season so far has been good, between FA and the Draft the defense has got immeasurably better, the offense has been improved (and with better field position given to them by an improved D their improvement could be more than anticipated) and the ST unit has been improved with the addition of another explosive returner.

Just because they didn't draft exactly who you wanted doesn't mean they didn't do a good job.

[DraftBoy]

They may make their names on day 2 but they keep their jobs by hitting on day 1 and on paper our day 1 looks solid. Fact is all 32 teams will whiff on some picks in EVERY draft. At this point we can't know which picks are whiffs and which aren't.

No we cant but that doesnt mean we can't look at them objectively either. Fact is if you are only hitting on two pick per draft and not missing on Superstar players (not saying we are, just saying we have in the past) then you wont keep your job as a GM. You keep your job by getting the best possible player at the position you picking no matter if its Round 1 or 7.

[ddaryl]

No its not. GMs make their names by making Day 2 picks work to not be scrutinized on that is ridiculous, especially if you miss on better options.


Ha Ha!... We don't have a GM :box: so that argument is bunk

[madness]

Corner - may have best cover skills out of the whole draft.

[justasportsfan]

Corner - may have best cover skills out of the whole draft.
MCgee better be ready because teams will be picking on him.

The problem is, both our cbs can't catch when the balls are thrown their way unless it's kicked to them :ill:

[PECKERWOOD]

McShay is playing both sides of the fence, I saw him on ESPN just the other day and he was saying that Miami had the best draft.

[Night Train]

Because the Bills didn't get "Their guy"
..who they never heard of before until this winter/spring.

[baalworship]

I remember hating the Terrance McGee pick a few years ago because he wasn't supposed to get drafted until rounds 6 and 7. His bio said he couldn't backpedal (pretty scary for a CB) and he was asleep when the Bills called because he didn't expect to go that high.

Training camp will tell us more on the less known players. I love McKelvin and Hardy and the rest we'll have to see.

[Luisito23]

LOL....I doubt he was asleep though....:D:

[yordad]

Im still steaming that Rucker was taken 3 picks before us. We would have had a perfect first 4 rounds had he fell. **** ClevelandJudging from the rest of the day two picks, we probably would have passes on him. He may have been too good of a fit.

[feelthepain]

Miami got 2 of the top 15 players in this draft with their first 2 picks. That's No guarantee for success of course, but at this point all we can go on when judging these picks is where they were ranked according to their ability out of college. The McKelvin pick was a very smart and solid pick for the Bills. I also think Hardy was a good pick for the Bills, but I think your Oline and Dline are more important to your success then your WR position. I think the Bills should have addressed either Oline or Dline before WR, jmo. Your team also plays a Tampa 2 so CB isn't nearly as important to the Tampa 2 as it would be for a 3-4 or 4-3.

[FlyingDutchman]

Merling is a top 15 player? says who?

[Mahdi]

Miami got 2 of the top 15 players in this draft with their first 2 picks. That's No guarantee for success of course, but at this point all we can go on when judging these picks is where they were ranked according to their ability out of college. The McKelvin pick was a very smart and solid pick for the Bills. I also think Hardy was a good pick for the Bills, but I think your Oline and Dline are more important to your success then your WR position. I think the Bills should have addressed either Oline or Dline before WR, jmo. Your team also plays a Tampa 2 so CB isn't nearly as important to the Tampa 2 as it would be for a 3-4 or 4-3.
Our DL is set as is our OL... the only position that has questions out of both lines is the OC position,,, and theres no way we wsere going to draft a C in the first 3 rounds....

[feelthepain]

Our DL is set as is our OL... the only position that has questions out of both lines is the OC position,,, and theres no way we wsere going to draft a C in the first 3 rounds....

Really? where were both of those lines ranked last year?

[feelthepain]

Merling is a top 15 player? says who?

Most of the darft mags and experts I've read had him that high. The Only reason he slipped was a sports hernia they discoverd during the combine.

[FlyingDutchman]

Most of the darft mags and experts I've read had him that high. The Only reason he slipped was a sports hernia they discoverd during the combine.

Probably the same ones who had Devin Thomas in the top 15

:crazy:

[FlyingDutchman]

I didnt see even one mock or article with Merling in the top 15. Not saying hes not a good player, but top 15?.....cmon....

[feelthepain]

I didnt see even one mock or article with Merling in the top 15. Not saying hes not a good player, but top 15?.....cmon....

Well like I said, when Miami drafted Merling at the bottom of round one, everyone I was listening to had him going quite a bit sooner. Believe it or not, I don't care.

[feelthepain]

Probably the same ones who had Devin Thomas in the top 15

:crazy:

Let me guess, you think Hardy is better then Thomas and you also think Hardy was the best WR in this draft??

[FlyingDutchman]

Let me guess, you think Hardy is better then Thomas and you also think Hardy was the best WR in this draft??

No. I like Hardy a lot but to be honest I wanted Malcolm Kelly. I NEVER understood why everyone was all over Thomas's junk. So yes I do think Hardy is better than Thomas, but im not singing his praises yet.

[FlyingDutchman]

Well like I said, when Miami drafted Merling at the bottom of round one, everyone I was listening to had him going quite a bit sooner. Believe it or not, I don't care.

he definately slid a bit, most mocks or rankings i saw had him at mid twenties. Once again, im not knockin him, but top 15 is a big stretch.

[feelthepain]

he definately slid a bit, most mocks or rankings i saw had him at mid twenties. Once again, im not knockin him, but top 15 is a big stretch.

Opinions are just opinions...and you have one.

[Marvelous]

A Bills' Fan Since 1960. That's a Lot of Disappointment.
.

OUCH! That 10 year Dolphin ownership musta sucked!! My best friend who is a die hard Phin fan & best man at my wedding commented how the last TWENTY years the Bilsl have done nothing but disappoint me. That was the one thing consistent about the Bills.....A-hole! But so true...Winning is as always- A PERK..

[PECKERWOOD]

I really think missing out on Rucker caused us to go that different direction

I agree, the Bills would probably have taken Rucker with the 1st 4th round pick and then would have taken Corner with the 2nd 4th round pick.

[yordad]

:poop:

Really? where were both of those lines ranked last year?You can rank a line? Enlighten me.

I don't know if you know, but we signed two DTs, and most believe McCargo and Butler will continue to emerge.


Opinions are just opinions...and you have one.And, I'm sure your opinion of your new DE went up as soon as your team drafted him.

Let me guess, you think Hardy is better then Thomas and you also think Hardy was the best WR in this draft??Actually, many had Hardy as the most talented WR in the class. The knock was experience and off field. NTM, he fills the Bills needs better then any other WR.


So yeah. :poop:

[feelthepain]

Actually, many had Hardy as the most talented WR in the class. The knock was experience and off field. NTM, he fills the Bills needs better then any other WR.

Funny, I don't remember reading that anywhere. But I'm sure Bill fans do. I have both PFW draft guide and Sporting News draft guide and both have Hardy the 8th and 11th best WR in their guides. Hardly even close to the "BEST".

[feelthepain]

You can rank a line? Enlighten me.



Oh I see, last year at this time Bill fans were telling everyone how they suddenly had the best Oline in the division with such superstar additions as Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery. At the end of 07 the Bills offense was the worst in the division for the second year in a row. You think that has nothing to do with your Oline? What sport do you watch rugby??? BTW, you also had the worst ranked Defense in the division and nearly the league, I guess your supertar Dline has nothing to do with that ranking either right??

[acehole]

I'm starting to like our 4th round better. Apparently, Corner is a playmaker with great ball skills who may very well make our opening day roster. And Fine, who is not the field-stretcher that most of us wanted, is the ideal sure-handed, short yardage pass catcher who should thrive in our 3-step drop system.

Hate to say this but his tape reminds me a lot of A Winfield.

[PECKERWOOD]

Oh I see, last year at this time Bill fans were telling everyone how they suddenly had the best Oline in the division with such superstar additions as Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery. At the end of 07 the Bills offense was the worst in the division for the second year in a row. You think that has nothing to do with your Oline? What sport do you watch rugby??? BTW, you also had the worst ranked Defense in the division and nearly the league, I guess your supertar Dline has nothing to do with that ranking either right??

FTP actually our OL for the most part was a solid unit, Lynch was able to get 1,350 rushing yards at 4 yards a pop. It wasn't because of Dockery though.. It turned out that Butler and Walker were the two that were largely responsible for OLs success, Lynch averaged over 5ypc on the right side of our OL, on the left side he only averaged 3.1ypc. This could mean that either Butler and Walker are on the verge of becoming pro-bowl calibre players or it means that teams were stacking against us on the left side of the line to combat Peters and Dockery.

[ParanoidAndroid]

it would be so awesome if Fine was a total bad ass. he is really the only pick that just made go "oh what the ****!".

i hope he proves me and 99% of the other people who said the same thing wrong.

Why wouldn't he other 1% of the people who said the same thing also be wrong?

[YardRat]

The guide I used during the actual draft to keep track of picks (and which I think is very credible considering their day one performance that I out-lined in a different thread) had Merling at 18.

[yordad]

Funny, I don't remember reading that anywhere. But I'm sure Bill fans do. I have both PFW draft guide and Sporting News draft guide and both have Hardy the 8th and 11th best WR in their guides. Hardly even close to the "BEST".THE FIRST LINK I CHECKED WHEN I GOOGLED FOR HIM
http://www.walterfootball.com/college/Indiana_logo.gif James Hardy, Indiana http://www.walterfootball.com/images/up.jpg
Height: 6-5. Weight: 217.
Projected 40 Time: 4.53.
Combine 40 Time: 4.47.
Vertical: 37. Broad 10-5.
Projected Round: Top 25 Pick.
James Hardy all but cemented his status as a first-round pick with a solid combine. He didn't run the 40, but he notched a 37-inch vertical and dropped only two passes in the drills. The only thing keeping him from being the No. 1 wide out on this list are his character concerns


http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2008WR.php

[Mahdi]

Really? where were both of those lines ranked last year?
I didnt realize there was OL and DL rankings... you have a link to that?

What I do realize is that on the OL we have a PRO-BOWL LT, a dominant LG, an emerging RG and a top 5-7 in the NFL RT. As I said C is just average.

On the DL we have a PRO-BOWL RE, A PRO BOWL DT, a yound DT in McCargo who had a good year last year and is only getting better, and a solid but not spectacular DE in Kelsay on the other side as well as Ellis the rookie and 2 other young DTs who should have large contributions this year as well in Spencer Johnson and Kyle Williams.

Other than that I guess we got nothin though on our OL and DL...

[kernowboy]

Problem with the line apart from Fowler is that Dockery is overpaid at $7m per season for what he brings. Walker also has had a career of one good season followed by one bad one - you've got to blow hot and cold to be moved to guard/benched by the Raiders.

Fowler is not too small but too weak. There are plenty of better Centers who simply handle bigger DTs better through better technique. I think next year we will be looking at a small Center who fronts up better.

A player who I think we should bring in is Shane Olivea formerly of the Chargers, a NY boy from Ohio St. If Walker plays cold this year, we have a proven player to move into the lineup at RG, moving Brad Butler outwards and if Dockery doesn't start putting in stellar rather than good play, he could be a future candidate to be cut/traded with Olivea coming in at LG.

We need depth that will make sure that the starters are always looking over their shoulders.

[Mahdi]

Oh I see, last year at this time Bill fans were telling everyone how they suddenly had the best Oline in the division with such superstar additions as Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery. At the end of 07 the Bills offense was the worst in the division for the second year in a row. You think that has nothing to do with your Oline? What sport do you watch rugby??? BTW, you also had the worst ranked Defense in the division and nearly the league, I guess your supertar Dline has nothing to do with that ranking either right??
Seriously you may have some general knowledge of football but your knowledge on the NFL and other teams is weak at best. You simply have no clue when it comes to evaluating Miami's roster let alone any other team.

Buffalo's problem last year was not our OL. It was a young QB with a lack of SKILL POSITION PLAYERS. TE wasnt running for his life in any game he played in last year, same for JP.

In Fact the Bills OL was 11th best in the NFL in sacks allowed only 1 less than Dallas who many regard as the best OL in the NFL. We also had a rookie running back go over 1100 yards and thats with missing 3 games, that total could have been more like 1400-1500 yards.


Now our DL was an issue last year. Our inability to rush the passer consistently last year was our biggest problem mainly because we couldnt get any pressure up the middle which gave QBs a pocket to step into.

Our DT situation has changed considerably however. Our starter from last year is now our 4th DT and the other is gone. Stroud comes in as a DT who gets after QBs and McCargo comes in having played very well in limited time last year. Spencer Johnson is also a penetrating DT that pushes the pocket.


For these reasons MANY analysts have Buffalo pegged as a surprise team this year.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8080d4ae

[Captain gameboy]

FTP....

Enjoy....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b87VUFugL4

[Mahdi]

Problem with the line apart from Fowler is that Dockery is overpaid at $7m per season for what he brings. Walker also has had a career of one good season followed by one bad one - you've got to blow hot and cold to be moved to guard/benched by the Raiders.

Fowler is not too small but too weak. There are plenty of better Centers who simply handle bigger DTs better through better technique. I think next year we will be looking at a small Center who fronts up better.

A player who I think we should bring in is Shane Olivea formerly of the Chargers, a NY boy from Ohio St. If Walker plays cold this year, we have a proven player to move into the lineup at RG, moving Brad Butler outwards and if Dockery doesn't start putting in stellar rather than good play, he could be a future candidate to be cut/traded with Olivea coming in at LG.

We need depth that will make sure that the starters are always looking over their shoulders.
Its all relative now when it comes to salaries.... the entire league is overpaying for players because the market dictates it. If we didnt pay Dockery 49 mil then someone else would have. We needed an elite LG and he was it. I dont think you can judge him based on only one year either. We all want the road-grating and big yards out of our RBs but fact is it takes time for an OL to gel and for the results to come to fruition. Dockery had a very good year last year and was one of the main reasons our QBs stayed clean for the most part. Dock is earning his pacycheck.

[feelthepain]

Seriously you may have some general knowledge of football but your knowledge on the NFL and other teams is weak at best. You simply have no clue when it comes to evaluating Miami's roster let alone any other team.



One persons opinion the Bills "might surprise" and you're all over it. What a shocker.

[justasportsfan]

I smell fear in every one of FTP's posts. Very defensive.

[Mahdi]

One persons opinion the Bills "might surprise" and you're all over it. What a shocker.
Actually there was 2 ppl in that segment and they were in agreement... every review i have read about the Bills draft says the same thing...

[ddaryl]

Note to feelthepain

We're going to kick the ever living snot out of the Dolphins this year... again.

now back to your regular scheduled program.

[feelthepain]

Note to feelthepain

We're going to kick the ever living snot out of the Dolphins this year... again.

now back to your regular scheduled program.

And what position do you play? Oh yeah the loudmouth whinny little girl in row 18 section B!! Good luck little girly.

[yordad]

And what position do you play? Oh yeah the loudmouth whinny little girl in row 18 section B!! Good luck little girly.Psst. I think ddaryl is just a fan. I think when he said "we" he was using a figure of speech. I don't think he meant for you to think he was just drafted by the Bills. I'm pretty sure ddaryl is a guys name. And, judging this quote, he just has to be older. :nod: