There was deffenlly something more to the Pats tape that the commissioner destroyed.

[lordofgun]

Think about it. Why would they destroy that one, but release the next one to the public?

Because there was something a lot worse on the first tape.

[OpIv37]

It's pretty clear to everyone except Patriots fans that this is much bigger than what the NFL is admitting publicly. I almost don't blame them- if it were a Bills dynasty being threatened by allegations of cheating, I wouldn't want to believe it either.

Goodell somehow thinks he's protecting the integrity of the league by pretending it wasn't serious, but he's actually doing quite the opposite. He should throw the book at the Patriots the way he's throwing the book at misbehaving players. I don't understand why he's more concerned with off-the-field incidents than ensuring a fair competition.

[Goobylal]

They destroyed tape of the walkthrough. Is it any wonder that the Patriots' lawyer sat-in on Walsh's meeting with Goodell? That suddenly all it took for Walsh to come forward was having his expenses paid?

The NFL is rapidly approaching WWE.

[lordofgun]

In an HBO interview Andrea Kremer asked Matt Walsh about Bill Belichick's claim that he misinterpreted NFL rules.
"When I was doing it, I understood what we were doing to be wrong," Walsh said. "We went to great lengths to keep from being caught. Just saying that the rules were misinterpreted isn't enough of an apology or a reasoning for what was done. … Coach Belichick's explanation for having misinterpreted the rules, to me, that really didn't sound like taking responsibility for what we had done, especially considering the great lengths that we had gone through to hide what we were doing."

[lordofgun]

Joe Bryant from football guys said it well:



Roger Goodell had this all put to bed and swept under the rug but Senator Specter had other ideas. I do think it's pretty much over. But the league has to accept the fact that there are repercussions for handling the original tapes so secretively and destroying evidence before anyone could look at it. They couldn't have raised a red flag any higher and this still is amazing to me they'd blow that one so badly. The only reason they'd destroy evidence is if what was on there was so bad it would outweigh the outcry they had to know would come when they destroyed evidence. I hope it was worth it for them.<SCRIPT><!--D(["mb","\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"#119ec296d4618202_top\"\u003e\u003cb\u003eBack to Top\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\n\u003chr\u003e\n\n\n\u003ca name\u003d\"119ec296d4618202_3\"\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug\u003dap-spygate-walsh-hbo\u0026amp;prov\u003dap\u0026amp;type\u003dlgns\" style\u003d\"color:maroon\" target\u003d\"_blank\" onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\"\u003e\u003cb\u003eNE - Walsh On Belichick\u0026#39;s \u0026#39;Misinterpreting Rules\u0026#39;\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSource: AP\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eIn an HBO interview Andrea Kremer asked Matt Walsh about Bill Belichick\u0026#39;s claim that he misinterpreted NFL rules.\n\u003cp\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u0026quot;When I was doing it, I understood what we were doing to be wrong,\u0026quot; Walsh said. \u0026quot;We went to great lengths to keep from being caught. Just saying that the rules were misinterpreted isn\u0026#39;t enough of an apology or a reasoning for what was done. … Coach Belichick\u0026#39;s explanation for having misinterpreted the rules, to me, that really didn\u0026#39;t sound like taking responsibility for what we had done, especially considering the great lengths that we had gone through to hide what we were doing.\u0026quot;\n\u003cp\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ OUR VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\nMost sports fans are grown ups. They can handle the truth. What they don\u0026#39;t like is someone looking them in the eye and lying to them. That\u0026#39;s what it feels like like when Belichick tried to say he misinterpreted the rules. Sounds like Walsh had a pretty good handle on the interpretation. \n\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"#119ec296d4618202_top\"\u003e\u003cb\u003eBack to Top\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\n\u003chr\u003e\n\n\n\u003ca name\u003d\"119ec296d4618202_4\"\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug\u003dap-browns-winslow\u0026amp;prov\u003dap\u0026amp;type\u003dlgns\" style\u003d\"color:maroon\" target\u003d\"_blank\" onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\"\u003e\u003cb\u003eCLE - Browns TE Winslow Wants New Contract\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eSource: Tom Withers, AP\u003c/p\u003e\n\n\u003cp\u003eBrowns TE Kellen Winslow, who underwent offseason knee surgery and his recovering in San Diego, has made it clear he wants the Browns to redo his contract.\n\u003cp\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\nWinslow missed most of his first two seasons in the league with injuries. He has three more years left on a contract the Browns restructured after he missed an entire year following a motorcycle accident.\n",1]);//--></SCRIPT>

[YardRat]

Goodell's a chicken-****.

[Michael82]

They destroyed tape of the walkthrough. Is it any wonder that the Patriots' lawyer sat-in on Walsh's meeting with Goodell? That suddenly all it took for Walsh to come forward was having his expenses paid?

The NFL is rapidly approaching WWE.
That's exactly what I was thinking. It makes perfect sense too..... :ill:

[Meathead]

will superarlen race to the rescue just in time?

stay tuned

[LifetimeBillsFan]

will superarlen race to the rescue just in time?

stay tuned

No.

The NFL will sweep this under the rug because there is no way to prevent them from handling this the way that they want to.

But, the media and particularly the fans of a lot of the other teams in the league won't forget it and it will hurt the image of the NFL and the legacy of these Patriots teams down the road. Not enough, but it will have its impact.

And, because of that, I do believe that the NFL will be keeping a closer eye on Belichick, the Pats and those coaches who are part of the Parcells-Belichick coaching tree (do you think that Belichick got the idea to do this himself?--maybe he did and maybe he didn't--is it possible that he learned to do it from his mentor?). They aren't going to want to have another similar scandal surface anytime soon even if they are able to sweep this one under the rug.

[Night Train]

Think about it. Why would they destroy that one, but release the next one to the public?

The next one didn't display Brady & a goat.

[Dujek]

The Pats cheated. The NFL are going to let them away with it.

It sucks, but I don't think there's much any of us can do about it other than boycott any game involving the Patriots, and that hurts our own team more than the Patsies. We all know what we'd like to see happen (my version of justice involves Bob Kraft, a blindfold and a firing squad), but we also know the NFL don't care what we think.

It's time to move on and concentrate on the Bills, because the Patriots aren't worth all this time and effort.

[YardRat]

A good friend of mine has his own theory...

BB and the Pats have dirt on others in the league who have done the same type of thing, and the NFL knows it. That is NE's trump card. If the NFL really hammers down on the Pats, then the Pats will assure that the **** really hits the fan by exposing others, and exposing the issue as more of a league-wide problem than strictly an isolated incident involving only BB and NE.

Again...his theory.

[Historian]

It would be nice if the Congress pulled their anti-trust exemption over it, wouldn't it?

[Johnny Bugmenot]

It would be nice if the Congress pulled their anti-trust exemption over it, wouldn't it?
It would... but that would probably lead to the breakup of the NFL, and that brings with it a whole lot of complications.

[don137]

I think the NFL/Goodell reacted too quickly. He should of done a more thorough investigation into the matter. The penalty was not severe enough for attacking the integrity of the game. This basically is as severe as the Black So scandal in 1919 and worse than Pete Rose betting on baseball. Bellichick should of been banned and Kraft if known about it should of been forced to sell the team.
The Patriots proved cheating wins and is a very poor representation of sportsmanship.

[feelthepain]

A good friend of mine has his own theory...

BB and the Pats have dirt on others in the league who have done the same type of thing, and the NFL knows it. That is NE's trump card. If the NFL really hammers down on the Pats, then the Pats will assure that the **** really hits the fan by exposing others, and exposing the issue as more of a league-wide problem than strictly an isolated incident involving only BB and NE.

Again...his theory.

I think if that were the case then the Pats wouldn't have been fined at all.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Joe Bryant from football guys said it well:

Roger Goodell had this all put to bed and swept under the rug but Senator Specter had other ideas. I do think it's pretty much over. But the league has to accept the fact that there are repercussions for handling the original tapes so secretively and destroying evidence before anyone could look at it. They couldn't have raised a red flag any higher and this still is amazing to me they'd blow that one so badly. The only reason they'd destroy evidence is if what was on there was so bad it would outweigh the outcry they had to know would come when they destroyed evidence. I hope it was worth it for them.


:scratch: This sounds familiar...



The real reason they destroyed it is because the Patriots gave them evidence of not only themselves cheating, but a lot of other teams cheating, through all of their 3 SuperBowls as well as other teams' SBs. Goodell saw this and went holy crap, if this comes out we're all doomed. It's easier to apologize for destroying the evidence than to apologize for destroying the league. So now when people ask him questions about the tapes, they can say whatever was on the tapes they want.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=146153

[Jan Reimers]

You're deffenlly and complelly correct.

[DraftBoy]

Yea! The planes didnt hit the WTC either! Down with the man!

[Jan Reimers]

Goodell has done an excellent job of disciplining players, but he has really botched the Spygate mess. I hope this doesn't cost him his job.

[Jan Reimers]

It would be nice if the Congress pulled their anti-trust exemption over it, wouldn't it?
I think Congress should save this hammer until the proposed Bills' move to a foreign country.

[Lone Stranger]

The most damning thing is the destruction of the tapes. It's just wasn't logical. One has to remember who hired Goodell, the newer and richer owners. He will protect those who feed him. I don't believe it goes much beyond that point.

And to confirm my suspicion you only have to look at his comments about the Bills and their financial plight . No reference to The NFL's historical position on revenue-sharing. The Bills just weren't carrying their weight, etc., etc..

[BlackMetalNinja]

It's pretty clear to everyone except Patriots fans that this is much bigger than what the NFL is admitting publicly. I almost don't blame them- if it were a Bills dynasty being threatened by allegations of cheating, I wouldn't want to believe it either.

Goodell somehow thinks he's protecting the integrity of the league by pretending it wasn't serious, but he's actually doing quite the opposite. He should throw the book at the Patriots the way he's throwing the book at misbehaving players. I don't understand why he's more concerned with off-the-field incidents than ensuring a fair competition.

That's my biggest thing in all this. He's so willing to throw the book at people having off field issues because it somehow taints the league, yet clear and obvious breaking of the rules ON THE FIELD goes away so easily? Priority #1 should be fair competition, not athlete's personal lives.

[hydro]

Yea! The planes didnt hit the WTC either! Down with the man!
So you think what Goodell has done is justified and all that needs to be done?

[DraftBoy]

So you think what Goodell has done is justified and all that needs to be done?

No I just said that I believe in conspiracy theories too that center around people who have 0 knowledge of what actually happened or what was on that first tape, and also act like the Pats got away with murder.

[Mr. Miyagi]

No I just said that I believe in conspiracy theories too that center around people who have 0 knowledge of what actually happened or what was on that first tape, and also act like the Pats got away with murder.
Well the only people that have any knowledge of what was on the first tapes are Goodell and the Pats, and both of them have vested interested in having this whole thing go away. That's why we don't trust them.

Now that it has become a he-said she-said type of situation, there's no point to argument what was in fact on the tape. But regardless of that, the decision to destroy evidence still doesn't make any sense.

[DraftBoy]

Well the only people that have any knowledge of what was on the first tapes are Goodell and the Pats, and both of them have vested interested in having this whole thing go away. That's why we don't trust them.

Now that it has become a he-said she-said type of situation, there's no point to argument what was in fact on the tape. But regardless of that, the decision to destroy evidence still doesn't make any sense.

Like I said before and no planes hit the world trade center, the easter bunny does exist, and all the worlds leaders are part of a secret fraternal order.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Like I said before and no planes hit the world trade center, the easter bunny does exist, and all the worlds leaders are part of a secret fraternal order.
You're dodging the question.

Does it make perfect sense to you the way they destroyed evidence so quickly?

In this case, the Pats are the defendants, the other 31 teams and the fans are the plaintiffs, and Goodell is the judge. If the judge reviews the evidence in private then orders the destruction of such evidence, then gives his ruling based on those secret evidence, it would be illegal.

How are you kosher with that?

[DraftBoy]

You're dodging the question.

Does it make perfect sense to you the way they destroyed evidence so quickly?

In this case, the Pats are the defendants, the other 31 teams and the fans are the plaintiffs, and Goodell is the judge. If the judge reviews the evidence in private then orders the destruction of such evidence, then gives his ruling based on those secret evidence, it would be illegal.

How are you kosher with that?

I didnt dodge anything based on the fact that you have no evidence to back up your question but rather just twisted and obviously bias conjecture. Which makes you no better than any other conspiracy theorist out there.

Since you will complain until I give you an answer here it is. This league is not a courtroom there is no judge, there is no jury, there is only an appeal process. The commissioner makes the final call on all actions. His word is essentially the word of god, so your analogy is horribly off. As for am I kosher with the actions? Yes and No, I have faith in the Commish based on his record of dealing with problem players to hope/think that he dealt with this in the correct way and Im also not willing to forget the fact that he gave the Pats an extremely stiff punishment already. I have no reason, nor any evidence to believe that the Commissioner is covering up any incidents or in cahoots with the Patriots nor do you. The only thing that Im not kosher with is that I would of liked to see the tape myself but thats more because Im nosey and like drama more than any actual legit reason.

Satisfied?

[justasportsfan]

I didnt dodge anything based on the fact that you have no evidence to back up your question but rather just twisted and obviously bias conjecture. Which makes you no better than any other conspiracy theorist out there.

Since you will complain until I give you an answer here it is. This league is not a courtroom there is no judge, there is no jury, there is only an appeal process. The commissioner makes the final call on all actions. His word is essentially the word of god, so your analogy is horribly off. As for am I kosher with the actions? Yes and No, I have faith in the Commish based on his record of dealing with problem players to hope/think that he dealt with this in the correct way and Im also not willing to forget the fact that he gave the Pats an extremely stiff punishment already. I have no reason, nor any evidence to believe that the Commissioner is covering up any incidents or in cahoots with the Patriots nor do you. The only thing that Im not kosher with is that I would of liked to see the tape myself but thats more because Im nosey and like drama more than any actual legit reason.

Satisfied?
the commish destroying the tape created more consiracy theorist. Theories become fair game because of it.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Well I don't need any evidence to support a question. I'm not stating any facts so no proof is necessary.

What I don't understand is why the unconditional faith and trust in Goodell in making an unbiased and correct decision. You sound very eager to place your trust in him and make this go away, even though it doesn't make any sense for him to have destroyed the tapes. Destroying any evidence NEVER makes sense. All it does is support the later argument as you have made that now nobody can proof anything otherwise. So if their entire intention is to quickly close the door on the subject, that's what they'd do and that's what they did.

That is what I don't understand about those who want so badly to close the book on this issue. What is the motivation?

[DraftBoy]

Well I don't need any evidence to support a question. I'm not stating any facts so no proof is necessary.

What I don't understand is why the unconditional faith and trust in Goodell in making an unbiased and correct decision. You sound very eager to place your trust in him and make this go away, even though it doesn't make any sense for him to have destroyed the tapes. Destroying any evidence NEVER makes sense. All it does is support the later argument as you have made that now nobody can proof anything otherwise. So if their entire intention is to quickly close the door on the subject, that's what they'd do and that's what they did.

That is what I don't understand about those who want so badly to close the book on this issue. What is the motivation?

Which is why you are no better than those that say that the government made 9/11 happen or that it never really happened. A simple conspiracy theorist.

Destorying evidence of what exactly? If you can tell me what was on the tape(s) that were destroyed then maybe you have a point. Until then you're still left grasping at straws.

What is the motivation on closing the book? The issue is done, the punishment was the most severe possible, take your Buffalo Bills glasses off for a minute and think objectively about the situation. Suspension, life time bans, and taking rings away were never options or realistic. Why keep brining it up? Is it going to make you sleep better at night? The Patriots did the exact same thing that is done at every single level of sports from little league to the pros, the only difference is that they video taped it. The naivety of people on this board boggles the mind sometimes.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Destorying evidence of what exactly? If you can tell me what was on the tape(s) that were destroyed then maybe you have a point. Until then you're still left grasping at straws.
Exactly how is a person supposed to provide evidence on the very evidence that's destroyed? That's why they destroyed the tapes, because those WERE the evidence. Without them, now they can say whatever they want about what was on the tapes, and they cannot support their own statement either since the evidence is destroyed.

Why did Enron shred the documents that would incriminate them, but not the plain old irrelevant office memos about dress code? Because the dress code memos would hurt them, but the other documents would. If there's nothing to hide, there's no reason to hide it.

[TacklingDummy]

Think about it. Why would they destroy that one, but release the next one to the public?

Because there was something a lot worse on the first tape.

On one of the sports radio shows last night they said some of the tape showed a close up of one the Chargers cheerleaders ass.

[Jan Reimers]

On one of the sports radio shows last night they said some of the tape showed a close up of one the Chargers cheerleaders ass.
Now we're getting somewhere!

[Goobylal]

Well now I've heard what I wanted to hear. It was glossed-over in the recent reports, but the NFL admitted that Walsh was at the Rams' walkthrough in 2001, and while he didn't tape it, he watched it and relayed information from it to Belichick. The excuse given was that he was in full Patriots gear, thus Martz knew and didn't have a problem with him being there. But now Martz is saying that duh, if Walsh were in Patriots gear, he would have thrown him out.

And Matt Walsh is spilling to HBO. And the NYT. This is far from over, although the NFL will probably continue to do their best WWE imitation and look the other way.

[mybills]

The tape that was destroyed was so long ago they prolly don't even use the same signals anymore...so why destroy it?

"because I didn't want anyone else to see it." ~ R.G. :dizzy:

[Novacane]

Which is why you are no better than those that say that the government made 9/11 happen or that it never really happened. A simple conspiracy theorist.

.


Talk about exageration. What a stupid comparison :rofl:

[PromoTheRobot]

It's pretty clear to everyone except Patriots fans that this is much bigger than what the NFL is admitting publicly. I almost don't blame them- if it were a Bills dynasty being threatened by allegations of cheating, I wouldn't want to believe it either.

Goodell somehow thinks he's protecting the integrity of the league by pretending it wasn't serious, but he's actually doing quite the opposite. He should throw the book at the Patriots the way he's throwing the book at misbehaving players. I don't understand why he's more concerned with off-the-field incidents than ensuring a fair competition.
Goodell is looking like a rookie commissioner. He must be peeing his shorts over this growing out of control.

PTR