Spend a few minutes on the official depth chart and you certainly wish for depth.

[HHURRICANE]

I think the roster still has significant holes. I hope the Bills will be actively signing players through camp and the pre-season as they come available.

[Bruce is Loose]

There are some great details in this thread!!! </sarcasm>

Seriously, what areas of depth of of concern to you?

I think we have good depth in the DBs, some good LB depth (Ellison, Digi), Pretty good D line depth.

On O, Losman is a good backup QB. We are pretty set at RB assuming the Rookie makes it. WR is all set depth wise.

I have some concern about the OL depth. We have a couple of #2 TEs... depth isnt as much of a concern there as the starter!

[TacklingDummy]

Spend a few minutes on the official depth chart and you certainly wish for depth.

Actually what I wish for is some talent. I could careless about depth.

[Jan Reimers]

I actually think our depth is the best it's been in several years, except on the O line, where we're thin, and perhaps Safety.

What we appear to lack the most are a top flight TE and a proven #2 WR.

[Romes]

I think this post belongs as a reply to EdwardsEra thread So, whats next? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=155250) cause it just seems like a reply to that...

[dasaybz]

There are some great details in this thread!!!

Seriously, what areas of depth of of concern to you?

I think we have good depth in the DBs, some good LB depth (Ellison, Digi), Pretty good D line depth.

On O, Losman is a good backup QB. We are pretty set at RB assuming the Rookie makes it. WR is all set depth wise.

I have some concern about the OL depth. We have a couple of #2 TEs... depth isnt as much of a concern there as the starter!

He is?

[HHURRICANE]

Actually what I wish for is some talent. I could careless about depth.

Yeah, I should have changed it to that.

Spend a few minutes there and it's kind of scary.

[Jan Reimers]

Again, what's so bad about our talent level except at TE and 2nd WR, where we have a number of candidates, but no one really proven.

[OpIv37]

There are some great details in this thread!!! </sarcasm>

Seriously, what areas of depth of of concern to you?

I think we have good depth in the DBs, some good LB depth (Ellison, Digi), Pretty good D line depth.

On O, Losman is a good backup QB. We are pretty set at RB assuming the Rookie makes it. WR is all set depth wise.

I have some concern about the OL depth. We have a couple of #2 TEs... depth isnt as much of a concern there as the starter!

Our WR depth is terrible. Hell, our WR starters are terrible. If we lose Evans for any significant amount of time, this team is done.

At TE we have depth in the sense that the starters are just as awful as the back-ups.

The OL also has no depth, especially at tackle.

RB and QB should be OK, provided it's not for an extended period of time.

The depth on D is decent, but the O is in rough shape.

[Jan Reimers]

Our WR depth is terrible. Hell, our WR starters are terrible. If we lose Evans for any significant amount of time, this team is done.

Besides Evans, we have veterans Reed and Parrish, a big time rookie in Hardy, a promising prospect in Johnson, and three developing guys in Jenkins, Huggins, and Mayle.

There is no doubt we need Hardy to develop into our #2 guy, but I wouldn't say we're "terrible" by any means at WR.

Sometimes, Op, you need to consider the fact that young guys develop.

[DraftBoy]

Besides Evans, we have veterans Reed and Parrish, a big time rookie in Hardy, a promising prospect in Johnson, and three developing guys in Jenkins, Huggins, and Mayle.

There is no doubt we need Hardy to develop into our #2 guy, but I wouldn't say we're "terrible" by any means at WR.

Sometimes, Op, you need to consider the fact that young guys develop.


Young guys take years to develop usually at WR, you seem to be very complacent with a good blocking WR, an undersized WR, and one good WR as a solid core. We may very well get nothing out of Hardy this year, which is typically the case for rookie WR's and I expect nothing out of Johnson, Jenkins, Huggings, and Mayle. We have little depth at WR, and even less talent.

[OpIv37]

Besides Evans, we have veterans Reed and Parrish, a big time rookie in Hardy, a promising prospect in Johnson, and three developing guys in Jenkins, Huggins, and Mayle.

There is no doubt we need Hardy to develop into our #2 guy, but I wouldn't say we're "terrible" by any means at WR.

Sometimes, Op, you need to consider the fact that young guys develop.

Yeah, everyone told me that the young guys were going to develop last year and it got us to improve from 7-9 to.... 7-9. Reed's going into what- his 6th or 7th season now? He's not going to develop- he is what he is. Same with Parrish, who's going into his 4th season.

As far as Jenkins and Mayle, we had them last year and they couldn't even break into the roster despite our WR's being terrible.

As far as Hardy and Johnson, look at the recent history of 1st year receivers- it's not good at all. Every now and then there's an anomaly like Colston, but those are few and far between and the odds of that happening are slim to none.

Hardy, Johnson, Huggins, Mayle and Jenkins- if those guys played for the Dolphins and a Fin fan came on here talking about how great the Dolphins receivers were going to be, we'd rip him to shreds. Outside of Evans, our WR's are pretty damn bad. And as we found out last year, one guy can't do it all.

[HHURRICANE]

Hardy, Johnson, Huggins, Mayle and Jenkins- if those guys played for the Dolphins and a Fin fan came on here talking about how great the Dolphins receivers were going to be, we'd rip him to shreds. Outside of Evans, our WR's are pretty damn bad. And as we found out last year, one guy can't do it all.

So true. I love the Bills but I'm objective enough to realize that this team isn't as talented as everyone HOPES.

We replaced Price with Hardy and now our O is top 15th vs. 30th??

The O-line is one injury away from being terrible. We saw what happened when Peters went down.

Just look at the backup lineman.

Alot of this is TD's fault and his horrible drafting so I'm not looking to blame the current regime. It's just fact.

[Philagape]

We replaced Price with Hardy and now our O is top 15th vs. 30th??

With improvement from Edwards and Lynch, better play calling, better run blocking, yeah it could get there. I'd be disappointed if it didn't.

[OpIv37]

With improvement from Edwards and Lynch, better play calling, better run blocking, yeah it could get there. I'd be disappointed if it didn't.

Well, we were told player improvement was going to make the D better last year and it didn't. And we're still waiting on Losman's improvement that was supposed to happen in 2004. So, while it's likely that Edwards and Losman will improve, it's not a given. Same thing for the OL's run blocking- it's the exact same OL.

As far as the play-calling, it probably will improve but Schonert's completely untested so even that's not a definite.

Even if Edwards, Lynch, the run-blocking and the play-calling improve, this offense will NOT be 15th. The talent just isn't there. They'll be lucky to be 24th.

I think a lot of the people here are assuming improvement means this O will be good enough. People forget that this offense was so bad last year that it's possible to improve significantly but still completely suck.

[mysticsoto]

So true. I love the Bills but I'm objective enough to realize that this team isn't as talented as everyone HOPES.

We replaced Price with Hardy and now our O is top 15th vs. 30th??

The O-line is one injury away from being terrible. We saw what happened when Peters went down.

Just look at the backup lineman.

Alot of this is TD's fault and his horrible drafting so I'm not looking to blame the current regime. It's just fact.

A couple of things:

1) No, Hardy is unlikely to catapult us into the teens that easily...and yet, isn't having Hardy over Price/Reed at #2 an upgrade regardless?

2) Our Oline is one injury away from being terrible? Name me an Oline that won't be in trouble if they lose their top LT? LT isn't exactly a position that can be filled by just anyone. Virtually every team would be in the same boat if they lost their top blocker of their Oline.

[Mitchy moo]

This thread is a place for the paranoid to create conjecture. If you look at most teams and take away a few if their best players, you're going to have some kind of trouble. This team needs to grow as a cohesive unit that works as one and is coached well with gameplans that 8 year old can't figure out. Hopefully we have put enough in the hopper to get us there, I expect us to make the playoffs if and only if our health and gameplans are solid.

[TacklingDummy]

Again, what's so bad about our talent level except at TE and 2nd WR, where we have a number of candidates, but no one really proven.

Our talent level has made us miss the playoffs for the past how many years? That's what bad about it. Maybe this year will be different. I want to see it before I believe it though.

[TacklingDummy]

I am not going to get my hope up after the past 10 consecutive years of suckage.

[Philagape]

Well, we were told player improvement was going to make the D better last year and it didn't. And we're still waiting on Losman's improvement that was supposed to happen in 2004. So, while it's likely that Edwards and Losman will improve, it's not a given. Same thing for the OL's run blocking- it's the exact same OL.

As far as the play-calling, it probably will improve but Schonert's completely untested so even that's not a definite.

Even if Edwards, Lynch, the run-blocking and the play-calling improve, this offense will NOT be 15th. The talent just isn't there. They'll be lucky to be 24th.

I think a lot of the people here are assuming improvement means this O will be good enough. People forget that this offense was so bad last year that it's possible to improve significantly but still completely suck.

We don't know how talented our players are until they perform in their prime. Edwards, Lynch, Hardy and Butler aren't at that point yet; Peters and Evans are just starting theirs.

And one big difference in the line is the blocking scheme. I think I read somewhere that Schonert is ditching McNally's zone scheme, which wasn't a good fit for the players. Plus, having the same five guys return means growing as a unit.

Nothing's a lock, either way. I said "could." It's just as probable that they can finish 15th as anywhere else. It's not a straight equation.

[Jan Reimers]

Yeah, everyone told me that the young guys were going to develop last year and it got us to improve from 7-9 to.... 7-9. Reed's going into what- his 6th or 7th season now? He's not going to develop- he is what he is. Same with Parrish, who's going into his 4th season.

As far as Jenkins and Mayle, we had them last year and they couldn't even break into the roster despite our WR's being terrible.

As far as Hardy and Johnson, look at the recent history of 1st year receivers- it's not good at all. Every now and then there's an anomaly like Colston, but those are few and far between and the odds of that happening are slim to none.

Hardy, Johnson, Huggins, Mayle and Jenkins- if those guys played for the Dolphins and a Fin fan came on here talking about how great the Dolphins receivers were going to be, we'd rip him to shreds. Outside of Evans, our WR's are pretty damn bad. And as we found out last year, one guy can't do it all.
I think Evans caught something like 48 balls his rookie year. I see no reason why Hardy couldn't put up similar numbers.

[OpIv37]

I think Evans caught something like 48 balls his rookie year. I see no reason why Hardy couldn't put up similar numbers.

Reed caught 51 balls last year so Hardy's going to have to do better than that if he wants to improve our offensive production. That's a tall order for a rookie.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm ripping on Hardy because I'm not- I think he'll be a solid receiver for us in time. I just don't think he's good enough to step in as a rookie and fix a very broken offense. It's an unfair expectation.

[Jan Reimers]

Our talent level has made us miss the playoffs for the past how many years? That's what bad about it. Maybe this year will be different. I want to see it before I believe it though.
You don't think our last 3 drafts and our last 2 FA period acquisitions have significantly raised our talent level? This is not the aging, disjointed bunch of guys that Donahoe brought in here.

This team has been almost entirely rebuilt with younger players over the past 3 seasons, and should be ready to gel this year.

[Ebenezer]

Reed caught 51 balls last year so Hardy's going to have to do better than that if he wants to improve our offensive production. That's a tall order for a rookie.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm ripping on Hardy because I'm not- I think he'll be a solid receiver for us in time. I just don't think he's good enough to step in as a rookie and fix a very broken offense. It's an unfair expectation.
what if, because for no other reason than his height, he is able to pull a Butch Rolle and catch 8 TDs on 10 receptions? Wouldn't that increase the offensive production, help the team to victory and take pressure off everybody else? There is more to production than numbers.

[Dr. Lecter]

Reed caught 51 balls last year so Hardy's going to have to do better than that if he wants to improve our offensive production. That's a tall order for a rookie.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm ripping on Hardy because I'm not- I think he'll be a solid receiver for us in time. I just don't think he's good enough to step in as a rookie and fix a very broken offense. It's an unfair expectation.

Not necessarily.

If Hardy catches say 45 balls and Reed still catches 45 that is in a improvement. If Hardy catchs 6 TD passes that is an improvement. If Hardy's presence helps Evans that is an improvement.

Just comparing Reed's and Hardy's numbers is taking one narrow look at the evaluation.

[Ebenezer]

Just comparing Reed's and Hardy's numbers is taking one narrow look at the evaluation.

Narrow?? Nobody here ever does that. :sarcasm:

[Philagape]

what if, because for no other reason than his height, he is able to pull a Butch Rolle and catch 8 TDs on 10 receptions? Wouldn't that increase the offensive production, help the team to victory and take pressure off everybody else? There is more to production than numbers.

Plus, Reed averaged just 11.3 yards a catch. I think Hardy can significantly top that.

[Jan Reimers]

Reed caught 51 balls last year so Hardy's going to have to do better than that if he wants to improve our offensive production. That's a tall order for a rookie.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm ripping on Hardy because I'm not- I think he'll be a solid receiver for us in time. I just don't think he's good enough to step in as a rookie and fix a very broken offense. It's an unfair expectation.
Why is it always a simplistic and negative one-on-one comparison. What if Hardy catches 40, Reed grabs 50, and Evans gets 75? And Parrish gets 35?

Why does Reed have to die if Hardy emerges, or Hardy have to surpass 51, or whatever? If Hardy can make a valuable contribution, we'll have 4 good receivers instead of 3. Isn't that an improvement?

[OpIv37]

Why is it always a simplistic and negative one-on-one comparison. What if Hardy catches 40, Reed grabs 50, and Evans gets 75? And Parrish gets 35?

Why does Reed have to die if Hardy emerges, or Hardy have to surpass 51, or whatever? If Hardy can make a valuable contribution, we'll have 4 good receivers instead of 3. Isn't that an improvement?

because there's no way in hell all of those guys will put up those kinds of numbers. This offense simply isn't good enough. Reed and Hardy will be sharing time- they're not both going to be on the field full-time. So as Hardy's production goes up, Reed's will go down.

[OpIv37]

Not necessarily.

If Hardy catches say 45 balls and Reed still catches 45 that is in a improvement. If Hardy catchs 6 TD passes that is an improvement. If Hardy's presence helps Evans that is an improvement.

Just comparing Reed's and Hardy's numbers is taking one narrow look at the evaluation.

true but first we have to get to the red zone before Hardy catches TD's, and at times last year even that was a problem.

[OpIv37]

Plus, Reed averaged just 11.3 yards a catch. I think Hardy can significantly top that.

why? Separation and downfield speed are not his fortes.

[Philagape]

why? Separation and downfield speed are not his fortes.

His height is an advantage at any distance. A 15-yard pass to a 6-7 guy has a better chance of being completed than to a 5-10 guy.

[Jan Reimers]

because there's no way in hell all of those guys will put up those kinds of numbers. This offense simply isn't good enough. Reed and Hardy will be sharing time- they're not both going to be on the field full-time. So as Hardy's production goes up, Reed's will go down.
Embrace the possibilities, grasshopper. Don't be shaclkled by past failures, but let your heart and mind soar like an eagle.:dance:

With that, I think I'll have another lil' drinky-poo.

[raphael120]

Well I tell ya this much, fellas...if Hardy catches just 1 TD it'll be better than Reed's 0 TD's last season.

Sometime we fail to realize how abysmally bad this offense was last year. Op is right...I see dramatic improvement by just us being the 20-25th ranked offense.

We have too many vital pieces to the offense relying on inexperienced young players. #2 WR, RB, QB. Outside of the oline, that's pretty much your whole damn offense!

Same with defense...if McKelvin starts, thats a rookie CB, semi-rookie Poz and Simpson. We're relying on Stroud to stay healthy and return to Pro Bowl form, but then again I'll take a 70% Stroud over a 110% Triplett.

There's a loooootttt of things that need to fall into place this year and quite frankly, they better because if they don't that means this rebuilding "plan" was a failure and the people in charge of it need to hit the road.

[TacklingDummy]

You don't think our last 3 drafts and our last 2 FA period acquisitions have significantly raised our talent level? This is not the aging, disjointed bunch of guys that Donahoe brought in here.



Let's see it on the field.

As far as drafts go Donahoe's have been better to this point.

[The Answer]

Do we have 'depth'? Sure if you count all of the young unproven players that will be in their 1st and 2nd nfl seasons. But the problem is that even some of the 2nd year guys (i.e. The Poz, Schouman, etc) missed significant time as a rookie that will likely hinder their development.

Here's how I see it position by position assuming we stay relatively healthy or at least don't have half the amount of injuries we did last year:

QB: Edwards (still unproven, but loads of upside and potential), Losman (we all know his story), Hamden (unproven at the NFL level). Conclusion - unable to determine true depth since Losman is the only player with more than one season of nfl experience.

RB: Lynch (top 15 NFL RB), Jackson (bonafide backup capable of starting some games if last year wasn't a fluke), Omen (rookie), Wright (fodder at this point). Depth - solid

WR: Evans (should be top 20 receiver if gets help), Hardy/Johnson (rookies), Reed (mr. inconsistent), parrish (great return man but mediorce receiver). Conclusion - Depth - solid if Hardy and or Johnson can contribute this year.

TE: Royal (not even starting calibur TE IMO), Fine (rookie), the rest of the scrap heap isn't worth discussing. Depth - nonexistent, we don't even have a decent starter.

FB/HB: Schoman (potential, but still unproven). Pretty much the same situation at TE but some potential here.

Oline: Solid starting unit minus Melvin big pimpin Fowler. But beyond Peters, Dockery and Walker it gets pretty scary. Depth - not good

Special Teams: Should be a very deep unit given the influx of young talent regardless of injuries. In terms of the return game we are now loaded with game changing burners.

DT: Stroud (top 10 DT if healthy), McCargo (should know exactly what we have in year 3), Johnson (under the radar signing from Minny that may end up being our 2nd best DT), Williams (former starter should provide excellent depth in rotation. Jefferson/McCray (two young players with promise). Depth - solid

DE: Schobel (overpaid fatcat that needs a strong 2008), Ellis (rookie), Denney (scrub IMO), Kelsay (average at best). Depth - nonexistent.

LB: Crowell (top 20 NFL OLB), Mitchell (ditto - but with playoff experience), The Digi (emerging young stud), Poz (has starter potential if healthy), Ellison (former starter), Bowen (rookie). Depth - very solid.

Safety: Whitner (top 20 NFL safety), Simpson (promising young player), Wilson (played solid with little experience at the position), Scott (wily veteran). Depth - very solid

Corner: McGee (starting calibur), Greer (rock solid), McKelvin (rookie), James (solid with playoff experience, Cox/Corner (rookies/fodder). Depth - very solid.

Bottom line - we are only as deep as we are healthy, and we really need to continue the trend with our young players stepping in and contributing as rookies/2nd/3rd year players.

~The Answer

[Mitchy moo]

Bottom line - we are only as deep as we are healthy, and we really need to continue the trend with our young players stepping in and contributing as rookies/2nd/3rd year players.


This is very accurate.

[Jan Reimers]

Let's see it on the field.

As far as drafts go Donahoe's have been better to this point.
I understand that we need to produce on the field.

But Donahoe's drafts were a disaster. He pissed away 5 years with poor selections, which led to very little on field success.

Question: Why the Hell do you suppose we've been rebuilding for 3 years?

Answer: Because of the s**t hole mess that Donahoe left us in.

[Mitchy moo]

I understand that we need to produce on the field.

But Donahoe's drafts were a disaster. He pissed away 5 years with poor selections, which led to very little on field success.

Question: Why the Hell do you suppose we've been rebuilding for 3 years?

Answer: Because of the s**t hole mess that Donahoe left us in.

I think that TDset us back around 8-9 years total between his tenure and the mess afterwards.

[EDS]

I think the only really scary "depth" issues the Bills have are on the offensive line and at defensive tackle if Stroud goes down.

[PECKERWOOD]

Young guys take years to develop usually at WR, you seem to be very complacent with a good blocking WR, an undersized WR, and one good WR as a solid core. We may very well get nothing out of Hardy this year, which is typically the case for rookie WR's and I expect nothing out of Johnson, Jenkins, Huggings, and Mayle. We have little depth at WR, and even less talent.

The top 3 from last year did alright...


Sidney Rice:
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=MINcolors>REC</TH></TR><TR><TD>31</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=MINcolors>YDS</TH></TR><TR><TD>396</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=MINcolors>AVG</TH></TR><TR><TD>12.8</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=MINcolors>TDS</TH></TR><TR><TD>4</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Calvin Johnson:
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=DETcolors>REC</TH></TR><TR><TD>48</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=DETcolors>YDS</TH></TR><TR><TD>756</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=DETcolors>AVG</TH></TR><TR><TD>15.8</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=DETcolors>TDS</TH></TR><TR><TD>4</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



Dwayne Bowe:
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD>70</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=KCcolors>YDS</TH></TR><TR><TD>995</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=KCcolors>AVG</TH></TR><TR><TD>14.2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=statspotlight cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=KCcolors>TDS</TH></TR><TR><TD>5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[PECKERWOOD]

We could use more depth at QB.. -- Can you say Tebow in the 1st round next year? :lmao:

OL is weak as well.. Duke Preston is the only name that can strike more fear in Bills fans than Fowler's horrible gameplay.

TE is very mediocre as well, no true starters.