Please expect very little from Maybin. [Archive] - BillsZone.com

View Full Version : Please expect very little from Maybin.

HHURRICANE

06-28-2009, 08:02 AM

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com that Maybin is not a 4 down player this year directly because of his size. There is a good chance he'll be lined up at the OLB position on passing downs.

This sounds like Hargrove without the experience and size.

So why is everyone thinking that this is some major upgrade?

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field.

kid mickey

06-28-2009, 09:14 AM

I don't agree with the entire post. Maybin will not lose all the weight this year. He is still pretty young. Only 21. You usually don't grow into your frame until you are about 24. You'd be surprised. For instance all through high school and up until I was 22 I weighed 145-155 range now I'm almost 24 and I weigh 170. I am not sure what Maybin will done year one on the field. I hoping that he at least gets two sacks. I'm not expecting anything more even though I made a bet.

Dr. Lecter

06-28-2009, 09:14 AM

A frame that can only handle 225???? That is a fabrication. Complete, total 100% fabrication.

You expect less from Maybin than they got from Ellis?

You make thing sup like the 225 part and you wonder why people get pissed at you. You start a thread like this that is clearly designed to provoke an angry response and not actual discussion and you will ***** when somebody takes the bait you put out there.

Philagape

06-28-2009, 09:16 AM

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

What, will he have negative sacks? What's a negative sack?

HH, you used to be a decent poster :shakeno:

Dr. Lecter

06-28-2009, 09:22 AM

HHURRICANE

06-28-2009, 09:24 AM

HHURRICANE

06-28-2009, 09:25 AM

What, will he have negative sacks? What's a negative sack?

HH, you used to be a decent poster :shakeno:

I expect him to have less of an impact than Ellis. Less playing time and less pressure.

Dr. Lecter

06-28-2009, 09:27 AM

He put 25 pounds on in less than 4 months. What am I fabricating about?

Look at his body. He was a 20-21 year old guy when he did that. His frame is big enough to handle more than 225 (not to mention he was over 230 while at Penn St - details, details). The weight he was at was small for his frame.

I never said you fabricated the weight gain. What you did was lower his starting weight and somehow decide that people are done adding weight at age 21 and that he has a small frame only worthy of 225 pounds.

Dr. Lecter

06-28-2009, 09:29 AM

I expect him to have less of an impact than Ellis. Less playing time and less pressure.

Ellis played about 5 or 6 games last year and did nothing. I am not sure he had more than one or two pressures.

Barring injury, Maybin will do more than that.

I did not like the pick either, but this is hyperbole.

HHURRICANE

06-28-2009, 09:29 AM

He's an instigator now, Phil

He went from being a fair, but critical poster to a person trying to instigate.

I did not like the Myabin pick, but saying he contribute less than Ellis (who played in only about 5 games) is ridiculous Saying Maybin's frame only can support 225 is a false too.

The guy weighed 227 and put on 25 pounds for the combine? What is the fabrication?

Anyone who has played sports knows that loading on weight that fast and keeping it in on during an entire season is almost impossible.

I'm not trying to instigate at all. I've read here, and in the media, that we need Maybin to produce and it's just not going to happen in 2009.

I believe someone like Wood or Steve Johnson could actually live up to, or even exceed expectations and help the team.

I just don't put Maybin on the list.

xXSpIkes5IXx

06-28-2009, 09:34 AM

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com that Maybin is not a 4 down player this year directly because of his size. There is a good chance he'll be lined up at the OLB position on passing downs.

This sounds like Hargrove without the experience and size.

So why is everyone thinking that this is some major upgrade?

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field.

Chris Ellis didnt have the same production in college that Aaron did. Plus, you have to love his attitude about the game and his work ethic. That being said this year I dont expect a ton from him, but he will get more reps than Ellis did last year, especially in passing situations.

I can see him getting 4 to 5 sacks this year, giving him something to build on.

HHURRICANE

06-28-2009, 09:37 AM

HHURRICANE

06-28-2009, 09:40 AM

Chris Ellis didnt have the same production in college that Aaron did. Plus, you have to love his attitude about the game and his work ethic. That being said this year I dont expect a ton from him, but he will get more reps than Ellis did last year, especially in passing situations.

I can see him getting 4 to 5 sacks this year, giving him something to build on.

So he's as good as Mario Williams because he had 4.5 his first year and I beleive he played alot more downs than Maybin is going to see.

scartown

06-28-2009, 09:57 AM

I don't know many people that thought Maybin will come in and be a big contributor this year. He will come in play on passing downs and be mixed in more on early downs as the season goes. Also to say his frame can only support 225 lbs is pure speculation and wrong imo . He just turned 21 and will be getting into a NFL weight program for the first time. Do I think he will keep the weight he gained this year through out the whole season, no. I am also not looking for him to come in and be a world beater right now.

Goobylal

06-28-2009, 10:12 AM

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com that Maybin is not a 4 down player this year directly because of his size. There is a good chance he'll be lined up at the OLB position on passing downs.
I don't want Maybin to be a 4 down player. Because that 4th down is ST's.

This sounds like Hargrove without the experience and size.
Or the character issues, or the 3rd round talent/draft status. But otherwise EXACTLY the same.

So why is everyone thinking that this is some major upgrade?
Can I borrow that crystal ball?

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.
Yes Ellis, a 3rd rounder who barely saw the field, got no sacks. Maybin as a 1st rounder will see the field a LOT more, and surely won't get negative sacks, as has already been (laughingly) mentioned.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field.
Gotta love those workout warriors who get 12 sacks as a 20-year old redshirt sophomore and at 225#! And the claim that he can only support 225# is probably one of the most ill-informed, if not outright dumb, statements I've ever heard.

I agree that you used to be a good poster, HH. That is, unless you're getting paid for every post and/or reply, which would make these posts make more sense.

Night Train

06-28-2009, 11:04 AM

TigerJ

06-28-2009, 11:14 AM

I think if Maybin does reasonably well in the role of designated pass rusher, he could end up with something in the range of 4-6 sacks. The Bills have said they think he could probably carry 260 lbs and still maintain his quickness. Quickness is what potentially makes him special. I don't expect him to wear down much this season as I think he'll have somewhere in the neighbohood of 15-20 plays a game. If he were playing full time as a rookie, wearing down could be a problem. As his body matures, I think he'll be OK as a 3 down player. Still, you never know. Even big guys can wear down, and big guys might be more prone to things like stress fractures because of the weight they carry.

SABURZFAN

06-28-2009, 11:20 AM

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com

that's where i stop reading.

xXSpIkes5IXx

06-28-2009, 11:30 AM

So he's as good as Mario Williams because he had 4.5 his first year and I beleive he played alot more downs than Maybin is going to see.

Aaron Schobel had 6.5 sacks his rookie season and wasn't a starter for a chunk of the year, whereas Mario started the whole season.

Its all about how quickly the individual player adjusts. You have no idea how well Maybin will handle the NFL game as a rookie.

However, I think its safe to say that he will more than likely have more of an impact than Chris Ellis last season.

Mr. Pink

06-28-2009, 12:12 PM

I expect first round draft pick potential production.

I expect him to show why he was drafted ahead of other guys.

That's what everyone should expect.

Just because our first round picks in prior years have crapped the bed for the most part doesn't mean we should lower our standards.

mayotm

06-28-2009, 01:12 PM

that's where i stop reading.Probably could have stopped reading when you saw who started the thread.

BertSquirtgum

06-28-2009, 01:28 PM

i don't care if he is a 4 down player this year.

acehole

06-28-2009, 01:29 PM

The very reason I wanted to draft Ayers over him in my mock.
He will roam prolly until the HGH then phase Shobell out next year.

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com that Maybin is not a 4 down player this year directly because of his size. There is a good chance he'll be lined up at the OLB position on passing downs.

This sounds like Hargrove without the experience and size.

So why is everyone thinking that this is some major upgrade?

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field.

THATHURMANATOR

06-28-2009, 01:37 PM

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com that Maybin is not a 4 down player this year directly because of his size. There is a good chance he'll be lined up at the OLB position on passing downs.

This sounds like Hargrove without the experience and size.

So why is everyone thinking that this is some major upgrade?

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field.
How do you expect less than 0 sacks? Is he getting negative sacks somehow? Maybe by sacking Edwards on the sideline?

Mitchell55

06-28-2009, 02:54 PM

225. I thought he weighs 250

kscdogbillsfan1221

06-28-2009, 05:01 PM

i give up. i can't watch anymore. the season's over. bills suck. front office sucks, quarterback sucks, rb sucks, wr sucks, d-line, o-line, lb's, secondary, special teams suck. i say we forfeit the season. (sarcasm)

Dr. Lecter

06-28-2009, 05:41 PM

To be exact it was neither 225 or 230. It was 227 pounds. He weighed that in Decemeber and than weighed 252 at the combine.

Fact is he gained 25 pound in 90 days.

And you specifically said his frame can only hold 225 pounds, which is not true. Look at him. He was under muscled in college. He is filling out, as many 21 year olds do. Saying his frame is only capable of holding 225 is simply not true. He has room to add muscle mass to his frame.

kid mickey

06-28-2009, 05:42 PM

My honest feeling about Aaron Maybin is he is going to be pro on John Abraham's level and that's not too shabby. Same size, same mentality. Same strengths, same weaknesses.

acehole

06-29-2009, 08:38 AM

I agree to a point but HH has a point here. Jason Taylor was not able to play 4 downs off the bat either and had to be spelled alot. When looking at mabin early on I was hoping this was not the case with him. The only saving grace here is that shobel is heathy. A heathy shobel spelled by a part time mabin should wear out any LT. Although I agree with HH that mabin might not be an every down player this year. ....I disagree it will be a bad thing......

He's an instigator now, Phil

He went from being a fair, but critical poster to a person trying to instigate.

I did not like the Myabin pick, but saying he contribute less than Ellis (who played in only about 5 games) is ridiculous Saying Maybin's frame only can support 225 is a false too.

billogic99

06-29-2009, 08:58 AM

Look at his body. He was a 20-21 year old guy when he did that. His frame is big enough to handle more than 225 (not to mention he was over 230 while at Penn St - details, details). The weight he was at was small for his frame.

I never said you fabricated the weight gain. What you did was lower his starting weight and somehow decide that people are done adding weight at age 21 and that he has a small frame only worthy of 225 pounds.

Well to be fair, we really don't know that Maybin was over 230 in college, just because you read it somewhere doesn't make it true. Those weight , height lists are exaggerated all the time. There's no way you can say definitively Maybin was more than 230 lbs at Penn St. unless you were actually the person weighing him in from week to week and you saw the scale with your own two eyes.

The coaches are trying to get these kids drafted too, it looks good for the program, especially future prospects because you're producing NFL caliber players, so naturally coaches will fudge the numbers they can fudge to help the process along.

I agree about Maybin, he needs to be much bigger IMO. He's too small and even if his weight were 230, he has very littel starting experience at the college level. To expect him to step into a role in Buffalo on a team lacking any real pass rushing threats opposite him is expecting a lot. I think the Bills would have been better served drafting an Olineman specifically a LT, rather than an undersized project at #11. Again JMO.

Nighthawk

06-29-2009, 08:58 AM

I expect Maybin to play on passing downs and get 5-6 sacks...which would be a decent rookie season. My expectations are reasonable.

Yasgur's Farm

06-29-2009, 09:01 AM

I expect Maybin to play on passing downs and get 5-6 sacks...which would be a decent rookie season. My expectations are reasonable.
Sounds "realistic" to me... Thank you. 6-7 sacks as a part time player will be a huge statement... And from what I've seen, very doable.

Historian

06-29-2009, 09:06 AM

I think he's going to make an immediate impact, ala Cornelius Bennett.

You watch.

06-29-2009, 10:02 AM

Cornelius Bennett.

:heart:

bigbub2352

06-29-2009, 10:27 AM

Jason Taylor and Kearse played at like 230lb Freeney is tiny hell even Schobel is small yet they all seem to be able to get to the QB, gotta wait for the pads HH, only way to tell
If he has pure instincts to get the the QB then all he needs is strength and speed and i think he has that
plus he is 21 alot of weight room time and alot of football to grow into
gotta wait till game time only way to weed them out

justasportsfan

06-29-2009, 10:40 AM

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com that Maybin is not a 4 down player this year directly because of his size. There is a good chance he'll be lined up at the OLB position on passing downs.

This sounds like Hargrove without the experience and size.

So why is everyone thinking that this is some major upgrade?

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field.

Why do you care? You quit being a bills fan. Leave us alone then.

madness

06-29-2009, 11:24 AM

HH, you used to be a decent poster :shakeno:
:liar:

billogic99

06-29-2009, 01:35 PM

Ingtar33

06-29-2009, 01:50 PM

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com that Maybin is not a 4 down player this year directly because of his size. There is a good chance he'll be lined up at the OLB position on passing downs.

This sounds like Hargrove without the experience and size.

So why is everyone thinking that this is some major upgrade?

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field.

you do know that Maybin is the exact same size as Javon Kearse right?

Hasn't Kearse been a 3 down players?

since when has Chris Brown been a source of anything?

bigbub2352

06-29-2009, 01:59 PM

I thought JT was like 245?

ok he is also 6ft 6 so if Maybin is 250 and 6ft 4
i would say pretty close in body mass, and like i said before, if they can naturally get to QB then all is well

Yasgur's Farm

06-29-2009, 05:11 PM

ok he is also 6ft 6 so if Maybin is 250 and 6ft 4
i would say pretty close in body mass, and like i said before, if they can naturally get to QB then all is wellAll is well indeed... Unlike what the "Sky is falling brigade" (SIFB) think.

billogic99

06-29-2009, 06:15 PM

ok he is also 6ft 6 so if Maybin is 250 and 6ft 4
i would say pretty close in body mass, and like i said before, if they can naturally get to QB then all is well

Well that's also assumng Maybin has JT, Javone Kearse and Dwight Freeny talent. Are ready to go there?

Historian

06-29-2009, 09:53 PM

I think they drafted him because he reminds them of Freeny, who they passed on, despite him playing college ball in their own back yard.

I bet he sacks Brady in the first game!

billogic99

06-29-2009, 10:19 PM

I think they drafted him because he reminds them of Freeny, who they passed on, despite him playing college ball in their own back yard.

I bet he sacks Brady in the first game!

Ya never know, he might just do that.

HHURRICANE

06-30-2009, 08:20 AM

justasportsfan

06-30-2009, 08:42 AM

I started two threads over the weekend here that got ripped. .

DUUUUH!

billogic99

06-30-2009, 09:21 AM

I started two threads over the weekend here that got ripped. Ironically I'm listening to Sirrius Sunday afternoon and the Bills were highlighted over the weekend.

3 Topics that came up:

1) Is it Jauron's fault if the o-line sucks and prevents Edwards and TO from playing well?

2) Maybin is too small and not NFL ready for the 2009 season. Unfortunately there wasn't even a debate on this one?

3) Will Russ Brandon be held responsible, or Jauron, if the team suffers because of the Peter's debacle.

And of course the excat scenario got brought up if Edwards got hurt becuase of the o-line being completely re-done.

People, Brady got hurt in week 1. They missed the playoffs.

This a 7-9 team that reshuffled the o-line with 2 rookies and a smallish center.

I have to agree with everything said. Now of course no one can see into the future so no one can say for sure what the season ahead will be, but looking at the history of this team I find it hard to be optimistic, about Trent, DJ and especially the Oline.

Maybins a different story, every year there are rookies who play out of their mind, whos to say Maybin won't? I know I haven't been a huge fan of the Maybin selection, but that doesn't mean I'm not hopeful about his future. I understand the argumnents for and against. But until he actuall proves or disproves peoples opinions, we can't really say for sure what will happen with him. I would like to think Maybin will at the very least show his potential, I don't need probowl numbers week in and week out. Just a solid 3 sack 50 tackl season, considering he'll most likely be an OLB with some DE thrown in from time to time, I think those are reasonable expectations form him this season. If he does that than imo he will have a chance to live up the the #11 selection.

dasaybz

06-30-2009, 11:28 AM

Chris Brown already prepped us on bb.com that Maybin is not a 4 down player this year directly because of his size. There is a good chance he'll be lined up at the OLB position on passing downs.

This sounds like Hargrove without the experience and size.

So why is everyone thinking that this is some major upgrade?

Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field.

This is seriously one of the worst posts I have ever read on a message board.

Goobylal

06-30-2009, 02:55 PM

I started two threads over the weekend here that got ripped. Ironically I'm listening to Sirrius Sunday afternoon and the Bills were highlighted over the weekend.

3 Topics that came up:

1) Is it Jauron's fault if the o-line sucks and prevents Edwards and TO from playing well?

2) Maybin is too small and not NFL ready for the 2009 season. Unfortunately there wasn't even a debate on this one?

3) Will Russ Brandon be held responsible, or Jauron, if the team suffers because of the Peter's debacle.

And of course the excat scenario got brought up if Edwards got hurt becuase of the o-line being completely re-done.

People, Brady got hurt in week 1. They missed the playoffs.

This a 7-9 team that reshuffled the o-line with 2 rookies and a smallish center.
Why would it be Jauron's fault if the O-line sucks? Russ Brandon is the one who handled the Peters affair, not Jauron.

Speaking of Peters, the Bills will hardly miss him. And QB's can get hurt even behind the best O-lines. Look at Brady, who you mentioned. The Pats had one of the best O-lines, and he still got hurt. Not that Trent doesn't have a problem staying healthy as it is, and his concussion last year had NOTHING to do with the O-line.

As for Maybin, 6'4" 250# is plenty big enough. But I'd love to borrow that crystal ball that people seem to have stashed away.

HHURRICANE

06-30-2009, 03:26 PM

Why would it be Jauron's fault if the O-line sucks? Russ Brandon is the one who handled the Peters affair, not Jauron.

Speaking of Peters, the Bills will hardly miss him. And QB's can get hurt even behind the best O-lines. Look at Brady, who you mentioned. The Pats had one of the best O-lines, and he still got hurt. Not that Trent doesn't have a problem staying healthy as it is, and his concussion last year had NOTHING to do with the O-line.

As for Maybin, 6'4" 250# is plenty big enough. But I'd love to borrow that crystal ball that people seem to have stashed away.

The media is looking at the same crystal ball. Maybin is a year away from being ready in most people's book. Yeah, he could shock us but even the Texans had to eat a year on their 1st pick with Williams and he was a much bigger slam dunk.

People love to get worked up when you point out that counting on Maybin to do anything this year is pretty far fetched. We have a much better shot at Wood outperforming and contributing than Maybin. Why is that? Because his game and size are more ready for the NFL than Maybin? Why is that so ridiculous?

HHURRICANE

06-30-2009, 03:29 PM

I have to agree with everything said. Now of course no one can see into the future so no one can say for sure what the season ahead will be, but looking at the history of this team I find it hard to be optimistic, about Trent, DJ and especially the Oline.

Maybins a different story, every year there are rookies who play out of their mind, whos to say Maybin won't? I know I haven't been a huge fan of the Maybin selection, but that doesn't mean I'm not hopeful about his future. I understand the argumnents for and against. But until he actuall proves or disproves peoples opinions, we can't really say for sure what will happen with him. I would like to think Maybin will at the very least show his potential, I don't need probowl numbers week in and week out. Just a solid 3 sack 50 tackl season, considering he'll most likely be an OLB with some DE thrown in from time to time, I think those are reasonable expectations form him this season. If he does that than imo he will have a chance to live up the the #11 selection.

Good post. My argument is that the Bills drafted him on his potential. Orakpo was the guy that could contribute now potentially.

So if you draft a guy for his future potential than expecting him to contribute now is somewhat unrealistic.

John Doe

06-30-2009, 06:36 PM

Good post. My argument is that the Bills drafted him on his potential. Orakpo was the guy that could contribute now potentially.

So if you draft a guy for his future potential than expecting him to contribute now is somewhat unrealistic.

Any college player is drafted for his potential. You never know who is going to bust.

Just because someone somewhere said that Orakpo is more NFL ready does not mean that he is a better solution to what ails the team.

The Bills weakness in defense last season was its pass rush. We drafted the guy who appears to offer the best chance to improve that facet of performance. I don't know of any expert that stated that Orakpo is a better pass rusher than Maybin.

Maybin may or may not do what he was drafted for. We will have to wait and see.

Historian

06-30-2009, 07:05 PM

I think the D will be solid. Its the O I worry about.

billogic99

06-30-2009, 07:38 PM

Good post. My argument is that the Bills drafted him on his potential. Orakpo was the guy that could contribute now potentially.

So if you draft a guy for his future potential than expecting him to contribute now is somewhat unrealistic.

I agree. With that said, there's no need to lose any sleep if Maybin does struggle this year.

billogic99

06-30-2009, 07:51 PM

Any college player is drafted for his potential. You never know who is going to bust.

Just because someone somewhere said that Orakpo is more NFL ready does not mean that he is a better solution to what ails the team.

Well to be fair, it wasn't just "somone" saying Orakpo was more NFL ready. There are several reasons to believe Orakpo is more NFL ready right now.

Here are the two players college careers, as you'll see Orakpo was far more productive and he's played one more season than Maybin and was far more effective as a college player.

Aaron Maybin:

Maybin redshirted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(college_sports)) the 2006 season. He had 12 tackles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tackle_(football_move)), with 4.5 tackles for losses, one forced fumble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumble) and one pass breakup in 2007. He was fourth on the team with four sacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_sack) and was named to the Sporting News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News) Freshman All-Big Ten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference) team.
Maybin had a breakout season in 2008. He was selected as the Big Ten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference) Defensive Player of the Week following a six-tackle, two-sack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_sack) performance in Penn State's 48-7 defeat of Wisconsin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Badgers_football), in which he also forced two key fumbles.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-wiskypow-0) He was named a Mid-season All-American by Sports Illustrated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated), College Football News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Football_News) and CBS Sports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS_Sports).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-midseasonaa-1) At season's end, he was named an All-American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-America)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-waltercampaa-2)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-fwaaaa-3) and a consensus first team All-Big Ten selection.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-allbigten-4)
Maybin was on the 2008 Walter Camp Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Camp_Award) watchlist[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-wc_watchlist-5) and was one of three finalists for the 2008 Ted Hendricks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hendricks_Award)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-Hendricks-6) and Chuck Bednarik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Bednarik_Award) awards, awarded annually to collegiate football's top defensive end and defensive players, respectively.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-maxwellfinalist-7) He was named the Pigskin Club of Washington, D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pigskin_Club_of_Washington,_D.C.) National Defensive Player of the Year[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-dcpigskin-8)
On January 9, 2009, Aaron Maybin indicated he would be going pro and make himself available for the 2009 NFL draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_draft). He was projected as a Top-10 pick.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-9) Maybin trained for the NFL Scouting Combine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Scouting_Combine) at Power Train Sports Performance in Millersville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millersville,_Pennsylvania), Pennsylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania).

Brian Orakpo:

Orakpo played college football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football) at the University of Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_at_Austin). He was redshirted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(college_sports)) as a freshman in 2004, but in 2005 he played in all 13 games starting one. He made an immediate impact for the Longhorns helping them finish 10th in the nation at defense, recording 27 Tackles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tackle_(football_move)), a half sack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_sack), a forced fumble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumble) and recovered fumble. His play earned him Defensive Freshman of the Year and first-team Freshman All-America by The Sporting News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sporting_News).
As a sophomore in 2006 he played all 13 games recording 26 tackles and 4.5 sacks and was named one of the Lowe's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowe%27s) Most Improved Defensive Players. As a junior in 2007 he played in nine games and missed four due to right knee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee) injury suffered against Arkansas State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_State). He was the Defensive MVP of the 2007 Holiday Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Holiday_Bowl) after recording six tackles and two sacks during the game. He finished the season with 37 tackles and 5.5 sacks.
As a senior in 2008 he was the Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press) Big 12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12) Defensive Player of the Year.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-0) He also was the winner of the Bronko Nagurski Trophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronko_Nagurski_Trophy), given to the best defensive player,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-1) the Ted Hendricks Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hendricks_Award), given to the top defensive end,[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-2) and the Lombardi Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombardi_Award), given to the best lineman or linebacker.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-3) He eventually garnered enough first-team All-American selections to be considered a "Unanimous Consensus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_College_Football_All-America_Team)" First-team All-American after being named to teams by the Associated Press,[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-4) American Football Coaches Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Football_Coaches_Association),[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-5) Football Writers Association of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Writers_Association_of_America),[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-FWAA_AA-6) the Sporting News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News),[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-7) and the Walter Camp Football Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Camp_Football_Foundation). [9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-WC_AA-8)
In his college career he recorded 132 tackles (93 solo), 22 sacks, 38 tackles for loss, 62 pressures, six passes broken up, six forced fumbles and a fumble recovery.

As you can see, it's not unfair to suggest Orakpo is more NFL ready at this point, obvioulsy once a player reaches the pros anything can happen and I'n not suggesting Orakpo will have a better season than Maybin. I'm just saying Orakpo has the better numbers and college career, so it's not a stretch or "someone somewhere" just saying Orakpo was more NFL ready.

Goobylal

06-30-2009, 08:59 PM

The media is looking at the same crystal ball. Maybin is a year away from being ready in most people's book. Yeah, he could shock us but even the Texans had to eat a year on their 1st pick with Williams and he was a much bigger slam dunk.

People love to get worked up when you point out that counting on Maybin to do anything this year is pretty far fetched. We have a much better shot at Wood outperforming and contributing than Maybin. Why is that? Because his game and size are more ready for the NFL than Maybin? Why is that so ridiculous?
I was going off of what YOU said, i.e. that you expected less from Maybin than the Bills got from Ellis, or IOW, nothing. I'd take what the Texans got from Mario Williams and I never said he'd set the NFL sack record, or even break half a dozen sacks, this year.

Goobylal

06-30-2009, 09:04 PM

Well to be fair, it wasn't just "somone" saying Orakpo was more NFL ready. There are several reasons to believe Orakpo is more NFL ready right now.

Here are the two players college careers, as you'll see Orakpo was far more productive and he's played one more season than Maybin and was far more effective as a college player.

Aaron Maybin:

Maybin redshirted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(college_sports)) the 2006 season. He had 12 tackles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tackle_(football_move)), with 4.5 tackles for losses, one forced fumble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumble) and one pass breakup in 2007. He was fourth on the team with four sacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_sack) and was named to the Sporting News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News) Freshman All-Big Ten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference) team.
Maybin had a breakout season in 2008. He was selected as the Big Ten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Conference) Defensive Player of the Week following a six-tackle, two-sack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_sack) performance in Penn State's 48-7 defeat of Wisconsin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Badgers_football), in which he also forced two key fumbles.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-wiskypow-0) He was named a Mid-season All-American by Sports Illustrated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Illustrated), College Football News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Football_News) and CBS Sports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS_Sports).[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-midseasonaa-1) At season's end, he was named an All-American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-America)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-waltercampaa-2)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-fwaaaa-3) and a consensus first team All-Big Ten selection.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-allbigten-4)
Maybin was on the 2008 Walter Camp Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Camp_Award) watchlist[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-wc_watchlist-5) and was one of three finalists for the 2008 Ted Hendricks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hendricks_Award)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-Hendricks-6) and Chuck Bednarik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Bednarik_Award) awards, awarded annually to collegiate football's top defensive end and defensive players, respectively.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-maxwellfinalist-7) He was named the Pigskin Club of Washington, D.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pigskin_Club_of_Washington,_D.C.) National Defensive Player of the Year[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-dcpigskin-8)
On January 9, 2009, Aaron Maybin indicated he would be going pro and make himself available for the 2009 NFL draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_draft). He was projected as a Top-10 pick.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Maybin#cite_note-9) Maybin trained for the NFL Scouting Combine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Scouting_Combine) at Power Train Sports Performance in Millersville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millersville,_Pennsylvania), Pennsylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania).

Brian Orakpo:

Orakpo played college football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_football) at the University of Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_at_Austin). He was redshirted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_(college_sports)) as a freshman in 2004, but in 2005 he played in all 13 games starting one. He made an immediate impact for the Longhorns helping them finish 10th in the nation at defense, recording 27 Tackles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tackle_(football_move)), a half sack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_sack), a forced fumble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumble) and recovered fumble. His play earned him Defensive Freshman of the Year and first-team Freshman All-America by The Sporting News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sporting_News).
As a sophomore in 2006 he played all 13 games recording 26 tackles and 4.5 sacks and was named one of the Lowe's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowe%27s) Most Improved Defensive Players. As a junior in 2007 he played in nine games and missed four due to right knee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee) injury suffered against Arkansas State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_State). He was the Defensive MVP of the 2007 Holiday Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Holiday_Bowl) after recording six tackles and two sacks during the game. He finished the season with 37 tackles and 5.5 sacks.
As a senior in 2008 he was the Associated Press (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press) Big 12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12) Defensive Player of the Year.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-0) He also was the winner of the Bronko Nagurski Trophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronko_Nagurski_Trophy), given to the best defensive player,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-1) the Ted Hendricks Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hendricks_Award), given to the top defensive end,[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-2) and the Lombardi Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombardi_Award), given to the best lineman or linebacker.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-3) He eventually garnered enough first-team All-American selections to be considered a "Unanimous Consensus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_College_Football_All-America_Team)" First-team All-American after being named to teams by the Associated Press,[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-4) American Football Coaches Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Football_Coaches_Association),[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-5) Football Writers Association of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Writers_Association_of_America),[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-FWAA_AA-6) the Sporting News (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News),[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-7) and the Walter Camp Football Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Camp_Football_Foundation). [9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Orakpo#cite_note-WC_AA-8)
In his college career he recorded 132 tackles (93 solo), 22 sacks, 38 tackles for loss, 62 pressures, six passes broken up, six forced fumbles and a fumble recovery.

As you can see, it's not unfair to suggest Orakpo is more NFL ready at this point, obvioulsy once a player reaches the pros anything can happen and I'n not suggesting Orakpo will have a better season than Maybin. I'm just saying Orakpo has the better numbers and college career, so it's not a stretch or "someone somewhere" just saying Orakpo was more NFL ready.
Orakpo just finished his redshirt senior season and Maybin just finished his redshirt sophomore season. So Orakpo has played 2 more years in college than Maybin, and is 2 years older (and more physically, if not mentally WRT the game of football). But if you compare Orakpo's redshirt sophomore season to Maybin's, it's not even close.

However you could be correct that Orakpo is more NFL-ready. However Maybin's ceiling is much higher, and he has a great work ethic, while players from Texas are notorious for being lazy and soft.

SABURZFAN

06-30-2009, 10:45 PM

since when has Chris Brown been a source of anything?

that's why i stopped reading it.

billogic99

06-30-2009, 10:52 PM

Orakpo is 2 years older than Maybin and has played 2 more years, since he was a redshirt senior and Maybin was a redshirt sophomore. If you compare Orakpo's redshirt sophomore to Maybin's, it's not even close.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. Are you saying Orakpos sophmore season was better than Maybins or Maybis sophmore season was better than Orakpos? All you said was they're not even close, so I'm not sure who you're talking about.

If you look at the two players numbers, Orakpos sophmore numbers are far better than Maybins, but you seem to think Maybin has a much higher celing. I realize Maybin is younger, but he never even came close tot eh numbers in college Orakpo did, regarldess of how many seasons they played. Orakpo just dominated his position and was winning award after award.

I hope that Maybin lights up the league, but he has very little in terms of actual stats that support the theory he could be a dominat NFL player. Obviously college numbers aren't an absolute to any NFL career, but since neither player has played a down in the NFL we can only use their college stats right now and Orakpos numbers make Maybins numbers look awful, head to head.

yordad

06-30-2009, 11:09 PM

I'n not suggesting Orakpo will have a better season than Maybin. I believe Orakpo is more ready, and will have a better season their rookie year. But, Maybin isn't signing a one year contract, and the sky is his limit.

Yasgur's Farm

07-01-2009, 06:04 AM

I believe Orakpo is more ready, and will have a better season their rookie year. But, Maybin isn't signing a one year contract, and the sky is his limit. EXACTLY!! That is, if the sky doesn't fall!

Goobylal

07-01-2009, 07:26 AM

I believe Orakpo is more ready, and will have a better season their rookie year. But, Maybin isn't signing a one year contract, and the sky is his limit.
Orakpo entered Texas in 2004 and redshirted that season. That was 5 years ago. So he just finished his redshirt senior season and his redshirt sophomore season (which Maybin finished this past season) was in 2006. Maybin's season last year was much better than Orakpo's season in 2006.

And another point I keep mentioning is that Orakpo played at 230# during that redshirt sophomore season (in 2006), like Maybin did last year. So Maybin can add more weight and strength.

Yasgur's Farm

07-01-2009, 09:10 AM

Orakpo entered Texas in 2004 and redshirted that season. That was 5 years ago. So he just finished his redshirt senior season and his redshirt sophomore season (which Maybin finished this past season) was in 2006. Maybin's season last year was much better than Orakpo's season in 2006.

And another point I keep mentioning is that Orakpo played at 230# during that redshirt sophomore season (in 2006), like Maybin did last year. So Maybin can add more weight and strength.100% correct... Excellent point too about the comparable weights at the same age.

Let's have a closer look at the stats...

Aaron Mabnin
2007 - 12 Tackles, 8 Solo, 4 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumble
*2008 - 49 Tackles, 30 Solo, 12 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble (Sacks in 9 of 12 games 75%)

Brian Orakpo
2005 - 17 Tackles, 9 Solo, 1 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumble
*2006 - 17 Tackles, 12 Solo, 4 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumble
2007 - 27 Tackles, 19 Solo, 5 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble
*2008 - 40 Tackles, 31 Solo, 11 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble (Sacks in 6 of 10 games 60%)

Obviously Maybin had a FAR better Sophomore season than Orakpo.
In fact... It could be argued that Maybin had a better 2008 period... He obviously was more consistent in producing sacks.

WeAreArthurMoates

07-01-2009, 09:48 AM

100% correct... Excellent point too about the comparable weights at the same age.

Let's have a closer look at the stats...

Aaron Mabnin
2007 - 12 Tackles, 8 Solo, 4 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumble
*2008 - 49 Tackles, 30 Solo, 12 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble (Sacks in 9 of 12 games 75%)

Brian Orakpo
2005 - 17 Tackles, 9 Solo, 1 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumble
*2006 - 17 Tackles, 12 Solo, 4 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumble
2007 - 27 Tackles, 19 Solo, 5 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble
*2008 - 40 Tackles, 31 Solo, 11 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble (Sacks in 6 of 10 games 60%)

Obviously Maybin had a FAR better Sophomore season than Orakpo.
In fact... It could be argued that Maybin had a better 2008 period... He obviously was more consistent in producing sacks.

Ya but Orakpo is so much bigger than Maybin weighing 7 pounds heavier and does not have an explosive burst. The guy bull rush though unfortunatly doesn't have any other moves. Luckily for rak all this is the trait for all the great d ends in this league, oh wait, must great d ends our explosive and run the arch, never mind.

Yasgur's Farm

07-01-2009, 10:36 AM

Considering the information available at the time of the draft...

1) Maybin had a comparable (if not better) 2008 season relative to Orakpo.
2) Maybin, being 2 years younger, has more apparent upside than Orakpo.

Slam dunk selection IMO!

PS... I would have selected Tyson Jackson, Aaron Curry, BJ Raji or Michael Crabtree before Maybin or Orakpo if they had been available... Possibly even Jason Smith, Andre Smith or Eugene Monroe as well.

yordad

07-01-2009, 11:48 AM

HHURRICANE

07-01-2009, 01:25 PM

Yasgur's Farm

07-01-2009, 02:06 PM

Maybin could eventually be great. However, everytime someone argues that the Bills are improved they mention Maybin on defense.

Chris Brown might not be an expert but he's sitting on the sideline watching these guys. He made it clear in his blog that the guy is going to see limited action.

There is a strong consensus in the media as well that Maybin is a year away from being able to play at the NFL level.

The guy might eventually be the best DE in the draft but my point remains that he ain't doing much this year. So why are people saying he improves the club now?I disagree... I believe, as a part time specialist in '09, that he will supply exactly what the Bills drafted him for... an improved pass rush in obvious pass situations.

The glass is half full.

billogic99

07-01-2009, 03:10 PM

I disagree... I believe, as a part time specialist in '09, that he will supply exactly what the Bills drafted him for... an improved pass rush in obvious pass situations.

The glass is half full.

Yeah but is it a good idea to use the 11th overall pick on a part time situation player? I mean there were only 10 plyers off the board at that point, wouldn't it have been wiser to get an every down player rather than a guy who you only plan on using in specific situations?

Yasgur's Farm

07-01-2009, 03:40 PM

Yeah but is it a good idea to use the 11th overall pick on a part time situation player? I mean there were only 10 plyers off the board at that point, wouldn't it have been wiser to get an every down player rather than a guy who you only plan on using in specific situations?Do you have a suggestion? Do you believe anyone that remained (in the Bills realm of need) would make a significant enough '09 contribution to offset Maybin's potential? Doubtful IMO.

yordad

07-01-2009, 03:47 PM

Do you have a suggestion? Do you believe anyone that remained (in the Bills realm of need) would make a significant enough '09 contribution to offset Maybin's potential? Doubtful IMO.Hey, I had Orakpo higher. I cannot lie. The Bills need immediate help. I hope Maybin can change my mind sooner rather then later.

Chris Brown might not be an expert but he's sitting on the sideline watching these guys. He made it clear in his blog that the guy is going to see limited action.
OK, Please, where is the quote that says we are to "expect very little, even less then Ellis"? I got a couple for you...

"Maybin’s pedigree is well documented. Lightning quick first step, relentless pursuit, still on the ascent. And though he may not be a starter right away he presents one-on-one matchup problems for pass protectors" ~ Chris Brown

"If Maybin can manage just a half dozen or more sacks and 15-20 quarterback pressures this season opposite established playmaker Aaron Schobel, the top pick could provide a one-two pass rush combination not seen since Bruce Smith and Bryce Paup were coming off opposite sides." ~ Chris Brown

"Aaron Maybin can, and will eat many opposing QBs very soon. He is an unstoppable beast. A true freak of nature. You may need to overt your children's eyes." ~ yordad

"And Maybin was picked because simply put he’s capable on any play of causing problems for a QB. He won’t be a full time player as a rookie, but he’ll be on the field in enough situations to succeed. If he succeeds 40 to 50 percent of the time he’ll be a playmaker right away."~ Chris Brown

Yasgur's Farm

07-01-2009, 05:21 PM

Hey, I had Orakpo higher. I cannot lie. The Bills need immediate help. I hope Maybin can change my mind sooner rather then later.
OK, Please, where is the quote that says we are to "expect very little, even less then Ellis"? I got a couple for you...

"Maybin’s pedigree is well documented. Lightning quick first step, relentless pursuit, still on the ascent. And though he may not be a starter right away he presents one-on-one matchup problems for pass protectors" ~ Chris Brown

"If Maybin can manage just a half dozen or more sacks and 15-20 quarterback pressures this season opposite established playmaker Aaron Schobel, the top pick could provide a one-two pass rush combination not seen since Bruce Smith and Bryce Paup were coming off opposite sides." ~ Chris Brown

"Aaron Maybin can, and will eat many opposing QBs very soon. He is an unstoppable beast. A true freak of nature. You may need to overt your children's eyes." ~ yordad

"And Maybin was picked because simply put he’s capable on any play of causing problems for a QB. He won’t be a full time player as a rookie, but he’ll be on the field in enough situations to succeed. If he succeeds 40 to 50 percent of the time he’ll be a playmaker right away."~ Chris BrownExcellent research on Chris Brown quotes.

As for the potential of Orakpo's '09 capabilities... He's got 2 things to his advantage...

1) 10 pounds more than Maybin.
2) Holding his extra weight for a longer period of time.

I believe Maybin has...

1) More raw talent.
2) More speed.
3) More moves.
4) More potential.

Goobylal

07-01-2009, 06:30 PM

Excellent research on Chris Brown quotes.

As for the potential of Orakpo's '09 capabilities... He's got 2 things to his advantage...

1) 10 pounds more than Maybin.
2) Holding his extra weight for a longer period of time.
A recent article on Orakpo said that he's lost 5#. And as Maybin matures, he'll be able to keep the weight on.

yordad

07-01-2009, 08:44 PM

Excellent research on Chris Brown quotes.

As for the potential of Orakpo's '09 capabilities... He's got 2 things to his advantage...

1) 10 pounds more than Maybin.
2) Holding his extra weight for a longer period of time.

I believe Maybin has...

1) More raw talent.
2) More speed.
3) More moves.
4) More potential.I cannot disagree, especially with your thoughts on Maybin.

The things you mentioned led me to believe predraft Orakpo had more first year potential. I would also add strength. Since, I am even more convinced Orakpo will have a bigger first year..... Maybin was drafted by the Bills and Orakpo was drafted by the Redskins. The same Redskins that just signed Albert Haynesworth to suck in blockers like a black hole.

But, time will tell.

FlyingDutchman

07-01-2009, 09:10 PM

Maybin could eventually be great. However, everytime someone argues that the Bills are improved they mention Maybin on defense.

Chris Brown might not be an expert but he's sitting on the sideline watching these guys. He made it clear in his blog that the guy is going to see limited action.

There is a strong consensus in the media as well that Maybin is a year away from being able to play at the NFL level.

The guy might eventually be the best DE in the draft but my point remains that he ain't doing much this year. So why are people saying he improves the club now?

He DOES improve this team. He might not blow you away this year, rookie DEs rarely do, but having him on this team this year at DE is an improvement from last year. If he has any impact and has a couple of sacks this year, its more production then we were getting last year from most of the DEs on this team. Not many people WERE expecting "a lot" out of him

FlyingDutchman

07-01-2009, 09:15 PM

So if you draft a guy for his future potential than expecting him to contribute now is somewhat unrealistic.

youve got to be kidding me that you believe this 100%

FlyingDutchman

07-01-2009, 09:18 PM

why was this thread even made?

justasportsfan

07-01-2009, 09:48 PM

why was this thread even made?
it's HH. What do you expect?

Jan Reimers

07-02-2009, 07:41 AM

The snap judgments on here, which - for young players - are made the day they are drafted or otherwise acquired, never cease to amaze me. Who says Maybin can't at least be a successful situational pass rusher this season, which is something we lacked last year.

Yasgur's Farm

07-02-2009, 07:50 AM

Maybin was drafted by the Bills and Orakpo was drafted by the Redskins. The same Redskins that just signed Albert Haynesworth to suck in blockers like a black hole.

But, time will tell.Good point about Haynesworth... But people should remember that Haynesworth would not have been a Bill had we drafted Orakpo.

My predictions... Given the facts that Orakpo will be playing LB (generally get twice as many tackles as DE's)... And Haynesworth will be his team mate.

Orakpo:
50 tackles
3 sacks

Maybin:
20 tackles
6 sacks

That's exactly what the Bills need from him... And probably wouldn't have gotten from Orakpo.

HHURRICANE

07-02-2009, 08:37 AM

youve got to be kidding me that you believe this 100%

Willis McGahee

HHURRICANE

07-02-2009, 08:40 AM

Excellent research on Chris Brown quotes.

As for the potential of Orakpo's '09 capabilities... He's got 2 things to his advantage...

1) 10 pounds more than Maybin.
2) Holding his extra weight for a longer period of time.

I believe Maybin has...

1) More raw talent.
2) More speed.
3) More moves.
4) More potential.

Chris Brown 6/26: "As for being a four-down end, I don’t think he can be that right now. He just turned 21 and is still growing into his frame, but I believe by as early as next season he could push for a full time end role."

Kelsay blows and in Chris Borwn's opinion Maybin could potentially challenge in 2010.

Yasgur's Farm

07-02-2009, 08:44 AM

What don't you understand about him being a specialist in his 1st year? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE BILLS NEEDED FOR '09. Chris Brown seems to understand it. He also seems to understand that he will grow into his frame... Which is the exact opposite of you stating his frame can't sustain the weight.

I don't want to argue with you... But sometimes you make it difficult.
Ellis didn't get a sack last year and I expect less from Maybin.

Maybin, until proven otherwise, is a workout warrior who figured out how to pack 25 pounds onto a frame that only can support 225. When he weighs the same 225by the end of the season I doubt we see him much on the field

yordad

07-02-2009, 09:37 AM

Chris Brown 6/26: "As for being a four-down end, I don’t think he can be that right now. He just turned 21 and is still growing into his frame, but I believe by as early as next season he could push for a full time end role."

Kelsay blows and in Chris Borwn's opinion Maybin could potentially challenge in 2010.You must suffer from selective reading.

HHURRICANE

07-02-2009, 11:41 AM

You must suffer from selective reading.

It's the last thing he wrote. That's my fault?

yordad

07-02-2009, 01:37 PM

It's the last thing he wrote. That's my fault?Your the one who interpreted it to mean that eveyone should expect maybin to contribute negative sacks.

FlyingDutchman

07-02-2009, 05:29 PM

Willis McGahee

what does he have to do with anything? Look at the Lions...should they have not drafted Stafford bc he is not going to contribute this year after an 0-16 year? Your arguement is dumb....

Yasgur's Farm

07-03-2009, 07:25 AM

This is now the last thing Chris Brown wrote...
At the very least he’ll be a situational pass rusher.http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/21-which-rookies-will-start/d82dc978-a7e8-48c1-ab44-3da5c8a3182b
The glass is half full!

billogic99

07-03-2009, 01:03 PM

.Do you have a suggestion? Do you believe anyone that remained (in the Bills realm of need) would make a significant enough '09 contribution to offset Maybin's potential? Doubtful IMO.

Do I have any suggestions? Hell yeah, there are several, in no particular order.

1) OT: Michael Oher- 6' 4.5" 309 lbs

2) DT: Brian Orakpo- 6' 3" 263 lbs

3) DE: Larry English- 6' 2" 255 lbs

4) DE: Robert Ayers- 6' 3" 272 lbs

I would have taken any of the above over Maybin in a heart beat. Maybin in my opinion is by far the biggest reach in the first round.

Yasgur's Farm

07-03-2009, 01:50 PM

Goobylal

07-03-2009, 03:04 PM

Do I have any suggestions? Hell yeah, there are several, in no particular order.

1) OT: Michael Oher- 6' 4.5" 309 lbs

2) DT: Brian Orakpo- 6' 3" 263 lbs

3) DE: Larry English- 6' 2" 255 lbs

4) DE: Robert Ayers- 6' 3" 272 lbs

I would have taken any of the above over Maybin in a heart beat. Maybin in my opinion is by far the biggest reach in the first round.
The guys you mentioned are all questionable. Maybin has great character, desire, and a great work ethic, which are excellent things to have. He's also quick off the snap. And he has the frame to add weight.

Hemlepp53

07-03-2009, 09:09 PM

Lets give the guy a chance. I expect big things from him. He doesnt need to have the size if he has the technique, speed, and strenght. Size doesnt always equal power.... I think he will be starting by week 5 replacing Kelsay....

billogic99

07-03-2009, 09:20 PM

Aaron Maybin- Scouts Inc grade 96

Michael Oher- Scouts Inc grade 92 - Obviously the Bills feel Maybin offers more in '09 as well as future seasons... I agree

Brian Orakpo (Converted to LB)- Scouts Inc grade 95 - The Bills needed QB pressure... Maybin does that better than Orakpo.

Larry English (Converted to LB)- Scouts Inc grade 89 - Again... Considering QB pressure ability... Maybin's better than English.

Robert Ayers (I think he's been converted to LB as well)- Scouts Inc grade 93 - Recurring theme...Maybin's better than Ayers at QB pressures.

Scout Inc grades. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft)

Don't take this personally, but I don't give a damn how Scout's Inc. graded those players. That has nothing to do with what the Bills actually got. You can pretended because a magazine graded a player here or there that suddelny becomes proof positive of what they will be. Maybin is too small, has very little starting experience and is basically a one dimensional player. Not to mention form the get go there is talk he will be used only as a situaional player.

That is the last thing a team in Buffalos position needs. Let me explain it another way. DJ....and I'm 99.9% sure of this will be gone after this season. My guess is that the majority of his staff will be gone aswell. Bring in a new coach, new GM and coaching staff and than you have a new staff who have no obligation to see the players on this team succeed or fail. If Maybin is not a dominant force right from the word go, he is far less likely to be a a force under a new staff.

What if the new staff decides to run the 3-4? Suddenly Maybin is too samll to play either OLB or DE in that scheme....wayyy too small!!! A new coaching staff will likely want the players they want to play in their system and since the Bills have been pretty unsuccessful the better half of the last decade, it will be tough to make a case to keep many of the payers on this team. I mean this isn't me making up some new concept, it's just how things work in this league.

I'mn sorry, but the Bills needed a player to play now, succeed now, dominate now. Not 2 years from now. I see no reason to think Maybin will develp into something he's never been and that's a massive presence a physical specimen. It one thing to add weight when your not lining upo and playing 35 to 50 plays a week, it's another to keep the weight on during game action. Maybin gained all that weight during his time leading up to the combine, but there were no two a days, no camp, no scrimmages. It was easy to keep the weight on. Everyone here talks about his fram and how it can be built on, well were the evidence of that? If Maybe ever hopes to be able to move an NFL lineman at this level he needs to do more than run around players, he will have to go through them too.

To be honest and again all of this is just my opinion, but Maybin IMO is far better suited to play TE in the NFL than any position on the defense. He has the perfect size and excellent speed to be a damn good TE. I just don't see him ever dutting it as a DE or OLB....ever!

Like I said I hope I'm wrong, I have no interest in seeing the 11th overall pick in this draft fail, I just don't see him being any more than a 2 sack a season 40 tackl DE.

billogic99

07-03-2009, 09:29 PM

The guys you mentioned are all questionable. Maybin has great character, desire, and a great work ethic, which are excellent things to have. He's also quick off the snap. And he has the frame to add weight.

Every player drafted is questionable till they prove themselves. Maybin has no more to offer out the gate than any player drafted. Maybin basically had one good season in college. He has very little experience playing at a level that can be considered competitive. Lets not over estimate what he actually did leading up the his 11th overall selection.

Goobylal

07-03-2009, 10:36 PM

Every player drafted is questionable till they prove themselves. Maybin has no more to offer out the gate than any player drafted. Maybin basically had one good season in college. He has very little experience playing at a level that can be considered competitive. Lets not over estimate what he actually did leading up the his 11th overall selection.
Orakpo had 1, 4, and 5 sacks in his first 3 redshirt season, until exploding for 11 sacks in his redshirt senior season. Maybin had 4 sacks as a redshirt freshman and 12 as a redshirt senior. I'd hardly say he did nothing before last season, and produced as much or more as Orakpo did in any of his first 3 seasons. And more than a few scouting services and NFL teams considered him to be a top prospect.

billogic99

07-03-2009, 11:52 PM

Orakpo had 1, 4, and 5 sacks in his first 3 redshirt season, until exploding for 11 sacks in his redshirt senior season. Maybin had 4 sacks as a redshirt freshman and 12 as a redshirt senior. I'd hardly say he did nothing before last season, and produced as much or more as Orakpo did in any of his first 3 seasons. And more than a few scouting services and NFL teams considered him to be a top prospect.

I would definately say Maybin did little before last season. He didn't start until 08. We can continue to play this game where we find excuses to believe Maybin is this super football player that only has upside. But that's neither relaistic or true. There is no way to ignore his size, there's no way to ignore his lack of experience and there are quite a few "experts" who think Maybin will be a bust at the NFL level for the very same concernes I have. I know you're aren't going to try to pretend they don't exist are you?

Like I've said form day one, I want to see Maybin succeed in the worst way, but I can't simply ignore the reality of his situation just because I want him to succeed. If he makes it at this level and dominates his position you'll have a hard time finiding anyone as happy as me about it. I just don't see that happening, I think Maybin ends up disappointing everyone, simply because there is so little history, he's too small and he will be on a team that basically has no one who can mentor and take some of the heat of him while he's growing into the psotion both physically and mentally.

Yasgur's Farm

07-04-2009, 08:22 AM

Don't take this personally, but I don't give a damn how Scout's Inc. graded those players.Of course you're gonna dismiss it... It doesn't fit your argument set. Just toss it aside..

DJ....and I'm 99.9% sure of this will be gone after this season. My guess is that the majority of his staff will be gone aswell... you have a new staff who have no obligation to see the players on this team succeed or fail... What if the new staff decides to run the 3-4?Could you fit in a few more hypotheticals?

Suddenly Maybin is too samll to play either OLB or DE in that scheme....wayyy too small!!!Really? Way too small? Let's start with his current weight of 250... admittedly a wee bit small as far as DE's go... But no where near "way too small". Now let's look at his playing weight last season... 227... How on earth can that be considered "way too small" for a OLB? You are simply stretching things to support your argument instead of weighing the facts of the truth.

I'mn sorry, but the Bills needed a player to play now, succeed now, dominate now.Hmmm... I thought your concern was with the next coaching staff. Here's where you go beyond stretching and completely break your argument in two. BTW... Where in the hell do you think the Bills could have found a player that was a sure thing to dominate now? Maybe the U of Mars or something I guess.

There's so much more that needs to be addressed concerning your comment... But my wife and I are literally heading out the door for the weekend. Somebody else will have to pick it up from here.

Have a good 4th.

Goobylal

07-04-2009, 08:51 AM

I would definately say Maybin did little before last season. He didn't start until 08. We can continue to play this game where we find excuses to believe Maybin is this super football player that only has upside. But that's neither relaistic or true. There is no way to ignore his size, there's no way to ignore his lack of experience and there are quite a few "experts" who think Maybin will be a bust at the NFL level for the very same concernes I have. I know you're aren't going to try to pretend they don't exist are you?
There were as many "experts" who had concerns about Orakpo, specifically his work ethic, his penchant for taking plays off, lack of explosion off the snap, and his Texas pedigree. And "experts" are far from infallible. What Maybin has going for him is character, work ethic, desire, and a quick first step. His youth is both good and bad, but with a year in the NFL, he'll be farther ahead age-wise than Orakpo.

And again, color me unimpressed that Orakpo had 2 more seasons in college, which were non-descript. Maybin matched Orakpo's redshirt sophomore season of 4 sacks as a redshirt freshman. And his redshirt sophomore season beat Orakpo's reshirt sophomore and junior seasons combined, and even beat Orakpo's redshirt senior season.

Like I've said form day one, I want to see Maybin succeed in the worst way, but I can't simply ignore the reality of his situation just because I want him to succeed. If he makes it at this level and dominates his position you'll have a hard time finiding anyone as happy as me about it. I just don't see that happening, I think Maybin ends up disappointing everyone, simply because there is so little history, he's too small and he will be on a team that basically has no one who can mentor and take some of the heat of him while he's growing into the psotion both physically and mentally.
He's 6'4" and 250#. At 21 years old. That's far from "small." And he has a Pro Bowler DE in Aaron Schobel to mentor him. Who does Orakpo have?

HHURRICANE

07-04-2009, 09:04 AM

Don't take this personally, but I don't give a damn how Scout's Inc. graded those players. That has nothing to do with what the Bills actually got. You can pretended because a magazine graded a player here or there that suddelny becomes proof positive of what they will be. Maybin is too small, has very little starting experience and is basically a one dimensional player. Not to mention form the get go there is talk he will be used only as a situaional player.

That is the last thing a team in Buffalos position needs. Let me explain it another way. DJ....and I'm 99.9% sure of this will be gone after this season. My guess is that the majority of his staff will be gone aswell. Bring in a new coach, new GM and coaching staff and than you have a new staff who have no obligation to see the players on this team succeed or fail. If Maybin is not a dominant force right from the word go, he is far less likely to be a a force under a new staff.

What if the new staff decides to run the 3-4? Suddenly Maybin is too samll to play either OLB or DE in that scheme....wayyy too small!!! A new coaching staff will likely want the players they want to play in their system and since the Bills have been pretty unsuccessful the better half of the last decade, it will be tough to make a case to keep many of the payers on this team. I mean this isn't me making up some new concept, it's just how things work in this league.

I'mn sorry, but the Bills needed a player to play now, succeed now, dominate now. Not 2 years from now. I see no reason to think Maybin will develp into something he's never been and that's a massive presence a physical specimen. It one thing to add weight when your not lining upo and playing 35 to 50 plays a week, it's another to keep the weight on during game action. Maybin gained all that weight during his time leading up to the combine, but there were no two a days, no camp, no scrimmages. It was easy to keep the weight on. Everyone here talks about his fram and how it can be built on, well were the evidence of that? If Maybe ever hopes to be able to move an NFL lineman at this level he needs to do more than run around players, he will have to go through them too.

To be honest and again all of this is just my opinion, but Maybin IMO is far better suited to play TE in the NFL than any position on the defense. He has the perfect size and excellent speed to be a damn good TE. I just don't see him ever dutting it as a DE or OLB....ever!

Like I said I hope I'm wrong, I have no interest in seeing the 11th overall pick in this draft fail, I just don't see him being any more than a 2 sack a season 40 tackl DE.

Awesome post.

I get in trouble for being blunt and not using much grease to get my point acroos but this post couldn't be more right on!

So why do people expect Maybin to be replacing Kelsay in week 5?? Again the whole point of my thread.

billogic99

07-04-2009, 10:37 AM

Of course you're gonna dismiss it... It doesn't fit your argument set. Just toss it aside..

I don't look at it that way at all. It has nothing to do with my argument. It's simply an opinion and a lofty one at that. I could say of course you would agree, because it fits your argument. But the bottom lne is it's just an opinion and they claim he's a 96 based on less history than the other players listed and no more impressive numbers for the time he did play.

Doesn't that seem strange to you? I mean I could understand giving him a higher grade if he posted 2 times the numbers as the other players around him with less time played, but he didn't. It seems to me like some people just liked him more, so he got the higher grade. If you're gonna make a grading system at least be logical with the way you use it and don't fudge the grades simply because you personally like one player more than another. Based on what the players actually did, you can't grade Myabin higher than the otehrs because he did less and played less.

Could you fit in a few more hypotheticals?

So you disagree DJ will be gone next year? Based on the last three seasons and the fact that he should have been gone after the awful perfomance down the stretch on 08? I agree it's speculation, but I think we all agree if DJ has another 7-9 season he will lose his job and everything I said COULD actually happen, would you not agree with that hypothetical?

Really? Way too small? Let's start with his current weight of 250... admittedly a wee bit small as far as DE's go... But no where near "way too small". Now let's look at his playing weight last season... 227... How on earth can that be considered "way too small" for a OLB? You are simply stretching things to support your argument instead of weighing the facts of the truth.

Has Maybin ever played a game at 250 lbs? Has he ever gone through a camp and maintained 250 lbs? And just for the record, 250 lbs for a LB in a 3-4 system is on the smallish side.

OLB- 3-4 system

Terrel Suggs- 6' 3"- 260

DeMarcus Ware- 6' 4" - 262

Adalius Thomas- 6' 2" 270

DE- 3-4 system

Richard Seymore- 6" 6" 310

Ty Warren- 6' 5" 300

Trevor Pryce- 6' 5" 290

Marcus Dixion- 6' 4" 285

Marcus Spears- 6' 4" 315

Those are some of the numbers of the best OLB's and DE's playing in the 3-4 system in the NFL. They are massive, as a DE Maybin would have to play at nearly 70 lbs more than he did in college and as an OLB nearly 40 lbs more. Not only does he need to get that much bigger, but he's never pproven he can play at 250 let alone 260 or 290. I don't think it unreasonable to be concerned about Maybin weight especially if he ever has to play in a 3-4 system. That system is designed for size and speed, whos to say Maybin keeps his speed if he adds the size? There are many legit questions about Maybin, I don't think it's fair of you act as if I'm just looking to be right about my opinion.

Hmmm... I thought your concern was with the next coaching staff. Here's where you go beyond stretching and completely break your argument in two. BTW... Where in the hell do you think the Bills could have found a player that was a sure thing to dominate now? Maybe the U of Mars or something I guess.

There's so much more that needs to be addressed concerning your comment... But my wife and I are literally heading out the door for the weekend. Somebody else will have to pick it up from here.

Have a good 4th
.

I'm not sure I follow this question, the reason the Bills need to win now, is because they haven't won anything in years. I hope DJ is gone, but it doesn't mean I don't want the team to succeed. I could care less who the coach is as long as they win. DJ has proven time after time after time, he can't win. If he suddenly figures out how to win and makes the Bills competitive and battles for a playoff spot, I have no problem if he stays, however I don't see that happening. I think the Bills screwed this draft up. They needed to fix the pass rush, I think they dropped the ball. They needed to fix the Oline, I think they did well, but not well enough. I think they needed to fix the backup QB position they dropped the ball. There are many things still wrong with this team. I see us with a new staff next year and unless Maybin sets the league on fire, I think he could be a major disappointment. JMO!

billogic99

07-04-2009, 10:51 AM

Awesome post.

I get in trouble for being blunt and not using much grease to get my point acroos but this post couldn't be more right on!

So why do people expect Maybin to be replacing Kelsay in week 5?? Again the whole point of my thread.

I really don't understand why someone would get upset with an opinion. I could usnderstand people getting upset with your POV if the Bills were a 12-4 team in the AFC championship game 2 out of the last three seasons and you were just nitpicking the team to death, but that's hardly the case. The Bills have been awful and not to be allowed to express an opinion as to why....is simply mind boggling imo. I don't like to write or read negative things about the Bills, but I'm just a fan. I have no control over what the does or who they sign and draft. If they aren't getting the job done you have just as much right to complain wehn they're screwing up as you do to cheer if they're getting it right.

Clearly some people just don't don't like to be reminded how bad the team is and that's fine, but don't jump on the fans who have just as much right to complain as those who have every right not to complain. It bothers me to see Bill fans who feel the need to control everyone elses opinions. Everyone has a right to express an opionon and just because some people don't agree with an opinion is no reason to attack that poster. JMO.

Goobylal

07-05-2009, 11:38 PM

I really don't understand why someone would get upset with an opinion.
When you start shooting down everyone's rebuttal, it's less an opinion than a belief. You only want to hear things that you believe. So fine. We'll have to agree to disagree and just "wait and see."

billogic99

07-06-2009, 06:21 AM

When you start shooting down everyone's rebuttal, it's less an opinion than a belief. You only want to hear things that you believe. So fine. We'll have to agree to disagree and just "wait and see."

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but you are doing the same things. I'm just trying to express an opinion based on basic facts and common knowledge. I don't think it's possible everyone here will agree on everything so there's no need to be offended if someone doesn't share your view. I'm fine that you don't agree with my opinion, it's what makes for good football discussion.

DMBcrew36

07-06-2009, 03:23 PM

There were as many "experts" who had concerns about Orakpo, specifically his work ethic, his penchant for taking plays off, lack of explosion off the snap, and his Texas pedigree. And "experts" are far from infallible. What Maybin has going for him is character, work ethic, desire, and a quick first step. His youth is both good and bad, but with a year in the NFL, he'll be farther ahead age-wise than Orakpo.

And again, color me unimpressed that Orakpo had 2 more seasons in college, which were non-descript. Maybin matched Orakpo's redshirt sophomore season of 4 sacks as a redshirt freshman. And his redshirt sophomore season beat Orakpo's reshirt sophomore and junior seasons combined, and even beat Orakpo's redshirt senior season.

He's 6'4" and 250#. At 21 years old. That's far from "small." And he has a Pro Bowler DE in Aaron Schobel to mentor him. Who does Orakpo have?

Aaron Schobel is a crap Pro Bowler. While he is a veteran and undoubtedly could teach the kid a few things, part of me wants him to stay the hell away from Maybin. The only thing Schobel is exhibiting these days is how to get 'garbage-time' sacks. I sure hope the kid doesn't catch his 'suck' - like a disease.