We were better off....

[IAG]

....with Tom Donahoe. While his years were not perfect, the years brought hope and a legit plan to be competitive in the league. The players he brought in, for the most part, are in the league still. Many are still exceptional players.

At the very least, the hot stove was entertaining.

Mike Mularkey has been a great mentor to Matt Ryan. Gregg Williams is a win from going to the Super Bowl as a D.C. A D.C. that revitalized a poor defense.

Everyone will point to Mike Williams, J.P. Losman and I am sure you can come up with others. However, he hit on way more than he missed. He drafted well, traded well, let go of players that were on the downslide, sign FA's that produced and unearthed talent that nobody wanted...Jason Peters and Jabari Greer.

The problem with Donahoe had nothing to do with him, it was the OWNER. I have said it for years and now with what is happening today, it proves the criticism of the owner is justified.

I will take heat for the post, but I think history will remember Donahoe better as time goes on.

If he would have allowed the money to re-sign the likes of Pat Williams and Peerless Price, perhaps the Bills would not be the Lions of the AFC.

[Don't Panic]

Williams, Losman and McGahee have to be three of the worst 1st round flops of the decade. I get what you're saying about how at least there was some talent here at that time, and that get's amplified by how bare the cupboards have been the last four years, but I still don't see us being much better if Donahoe had stuck around. Definitely not as competitive as we'd all like to see...

[Dozerdog]

Williams, Losman and McGahee have to be three of the worst 1st round flops of the decade. I get what you're saying about how at least there was some talent here at that time, and that get's amplified by how bare the cupboards have been the last four years, but I still don't see us being much better if Donahoe had stuck around. Definitely not as competitive as we'd all like to see...


Add in the #1 for Bledsoe



I wonder what would have happened if we grabbed Fox instead of Williams. TD might stil be here and we might have had made the playoffs once or twice

[ddaryl]

he also was responsible for releasing Pat Williams and Antoine Winfield.

Losman cost us a 1st rd pick, and McGahee and Miek Williams were a complete waste of a 1st rd pick.

the guy was making big mistakes that helped reduce this team to what it became the last few years

[Jan Reimers]

Donahoe was an arrogant ***** whose "Look at what a genius I am" style set this franchise back several years. We are still trying to recover.

[IAG]

For the record, Winfield and Williams left via free agency and the Bills did not "have the money" to re-sign them. I blame the owner not the GM. Wilson would not even let him franchise them and trade them like what happened with Price.

I cannot throw McGahee in the bust mix. He was tremendous in the 2004 run plus it was a bonus pick from fleecing Atlanta for Price...another great move.

Bledsoe, was worth the move since the Bills were QB hungry. I would criticize him more for the jettison of Flutie in favor of RJ. Maybe he would have gone 7-9 his first year, he'd been better off. Who knows....

[IAG]

Still trying to recover....look at the guys he brought in that a staring in the league...some this weekend.

Pat Williams
Aaron Schobel
Chris Kelsey
London Fletcher
Takeo Spikes
Lawyer Milloy
Terrence McGee
Lee Evans
Jason Peters
Willis McGahee
Jabari Greer
Brian Moorman

Those guys that are still with the Bills are the team's best players.

I do not want to even get into what he did with the Steelers.

[MikeInRoch]

For the record, Winfield and Williams left via free agency and the Bills did not "have the money" to re-sign them. I blame the owner not the GM. Wilson would not even let him franchise them and trade them like what happened with Price.

"For the record", BS. The Bills had plenty of money to sign Williams, and he was willing to stay. They never ASKED him what he wanted - they just cut off communications. It was ridiculous.

[Dozerdog]

Pat Williams was a Butler acquisition

You would think with what- 50 or so draft picks, more than a handful wold still be on this roster.

The rest were Free Agents - filling in holes left from poor drafting

[IAG]

No way, Ralph Wilson is a terrible owner and CHEAP. Hence, the Chan Gailey hire. How else do you explain NOBODY wanting this stinking job?

Once Wilson leaves the keys to another owner, the Bills will start to win.

[IAG]

Pat Williams was Butler pick up, but became a star under Jerry Gray. Cannot argue that.

[Throne Logic]

....with Tom Donahoe. While his years were not perfect, the years brought hope and a legit plan to be competitive in the league. The players he brought in, for the most part, are in the league still. Many are still exceptional players.

Donahoe's team building priorities were dead wrong. Regardless of the caliber of the players he brought to Buffalo, he failed to place an emphasis on the "trench" players.

Too many skill positions and no foundation for them to work from. Leads to failure every time. TD never seemed to figure that out.

[Dozerdog]

Pat Williams was Butler pick up, but became a star under Jerry Gray. Cannot argue that.



Ummm...No. Cottrell. He then followed Ted Cottrell to the Vikes

[Historian]

Donahoe's team building priorities were dead wrong. Regardless of the caliber of the players he brought to Buffalo, he failed to place an emphasis on the "trench" players.

Too many skill positions and no foundation for them to work from. Leads to failure every time. TD never seemed to figure that out.

Exactly.

[Night Train]

Why did we even bother having a scouting dept. here during the TD era ? It was all him and his niche picks on draft day. That's why some scouts left.

He went down personally and worked out Mike Williams. Roscoe Parrish anyone ? And on..and on..and on..

This last decade has been pretty bad.

[IAG]

The peak of Williams' career was in 2003 and 004 under Jerry Gray. The defense was legit.
DE- Kelsay and Schobel
DT- Adams and Williams
LB- Posey, Fletcher, Spikes
CB- Clements and McGee
S- Milloy and Vincent

What would give for that type of defense today?

[Dozerdog]

The peak of Williams' career was in 2003 and 004 under Jerry Gray. The defense was legit.
DE- Kelsay and Schobel
DT- Adams and Williams
LB- Posey, Fletcher, Spikes
CB- Clements and McGee
S- Milloy and Vincent

What would give for that type of defense today?If anything- give the credit to Gregg Williams. He has duplicated his defensive success a few times since.


If TD was any good, why is he not in the NFL now?

[IAG]

If TD was any good, why is he not in the NFL now?

You ever think he might want to be with his family? He has done consulting working according to the net.

BTW, should we start listing the players he brought in Pittsburgh.

[Lone Stranger]

Mr. IAG you are in the distinct minority here. I had high hopes for him when he came on board but became very disillusioned with his chicanery.

BTW where has he worked in the NFL since he was let go. I know Chris Mortenson likes him and all the ******s on ESPN but who else.

[Jan Reimers]

If TD was any good, why is he not in the NFL now?

You ever think he might want to be with his family? He has done consulting working according to the net.

BTW, should we start listing the players he brought in Pittsburgh.
Who cares what he did in Pittsburgh? Cowher was most probably the power there, anyway, since he forced Donahoe out.

[Typ0]

I can't believe there is even a thread like this. Donahoe was our downfall. Wilson actually put resources on the table then and made and effort to win. Not only did TD make bad decisions the way he did business was absolutely horrible and ruined the culture in the locker room and threatened the teams relationship with Bills nation. Since then RW has gone ultra conservative and the team ultra sucks.

[IAG]

Wilson is your downfall....see Jauron, Marv the GM, Nix and Chan Gailey.

BTW, who are the good players that the post-Jauron admin brought in?

Jackson, Jarius Bryd, Poz...maybe?

Face it, he was better than the garbage that organization has produced since 2006.

[Typ0]

Wilson is your downfall....see Jauron, Marv the GM, Nix and Chan Gailey.

BTW, who are the good players that the post-Jauron admin brought in?

Jackson, Jarius Bryd, Poz...maybe?

Face it, he was better than the garbage that organization has produced since 2006.


That's true...a job by a bad GM certainly is better than the non-GM job Levy did.

[IAG]

I had hope with Donahoe....I honestly do not even want to get interested in the team anymore.

The rest of the AFC has a plan and commitment to winning. I cannot say that about the Bills.

The Lions, Raiders and Bills...the bottom feeders in the league.

BTW, Nix should not crap on the Raiders. Who is he to dump on them?

[Jan Reimers]

Wilson is your downfall....see Jauron, Marv the GM, Nix and Chan Gailey.

BTW, who are the good players that the post-Jauron admin brought in?

Jackson, Jarius Bryd, Poz...maybe?

Face it, he was better than the garbage that organization has produced since 2006.
Nix and Gailey are really too new to evaluate, except that Nix most likely contributed to last year's draft. That draft has the potential to be very good, although Maybin is still a question mark.

And the "post-Jauron admin" just started. I don't believe it has brought in any players yet.

[IAG]

Nix and Gailey are really too new to evaluate, except that Nix most likely contributed to last year's draft. That draft has the potential to be very good, although Maybin is still a question mark.

And the "post-Jauron admin" just started. I don't believe it has brought in any players yet.

You are correct...I did not mean that way....how many good players did the post-Donahoe guys bring in...good correction- thanks.

[Buddo]

For all that Donahoe did bring in some decent FAs, he destroyed the franchise with his piss-poor drafting.
Even in the last few years with Levy/Jauron, at least we have had the majority of picks at the top of the draft being decent players. Maybe not as good as we would have hoped, but still good enough to start. (An exception being McCargo).
You can probably count the number of good picks Donahoe had, on the fingers of one hand - and that is through all his drafts.
You cannot become/remain competitive, if you draft badly.
Part of his remit also, was to actually hire a good HC, something else he singularly failed at.

[Neubs24]

he also was responsible for releasing Pat Williams and Antoine Winfield.

Losman cost us a 1st rd pick, and McGahee and Miek Williams were a complete waste of a 1st rd pick.

the guy was making big mistakes that helped reduce this team to what it became the last few years

The only 1st round pick that Losman cost us was the one used to get him.

[Neubs24]

Wilson is your downfall....see Jauron, Marv the GM, Nix and Chan Gailey.

BTW, who are the good players that the post-Jauron admin brought in?

Jackson, Jarius Bryd, Poz...maybe?

Face it, he was better than the garbage that organization has produced since 2006.

Wilson was an absentee owner after TD came in...

[Luisito23]

I never thought I lived to see the day when someone made a thread defending, and glorifying Tom Donahoe!!!!

[kernowboy]

Why is everyone down on Nix.

Surely the great work he did at the Chargers provide reason for hope.

He did some nice work in the 2009 draft and there is no reason to believe he cannot do well in the 2010 draft.

We've had a decent defence but an appalling offense - the defence automatically gets better if the offense can give them more time to recover.

Yet fans are *****ing about hiring an offensively minded head coach with a winning record, rather than a bigger (press) name head coach with a defense background. How many head coaches have gotten to the playoffs every season?

Schottenheimer has a poor post season record, Cowher had the benefit of brilliant GMs and coordinators at Pittsburgh, Shanahan ran the Broncos into salary cap hell etc ......

Nix/Galley were a surprise decision but there is no reason to think that these two experience professionals who have both got proven track records cannot take the Bills quickly back to respectability at the very least.

[better days]

....with Tom Donahoe. While his years were not perfect, the years brought hope and a legit plan to be competitive in the league. The players he brought in, for the most part, are in the league still. Many are still exceptional players.

At the very least, the hot stove was entertaining.

Mike Mularkey has been a great mentor to Matt Ryan. Gregg Williams is a win from going to the Super Bowl as a D.C. A D.C. that revitalized a poor defense.

Everyone will point to Mike Williams, J.P. Losman and I am sure you can come up with others. However, he hit on way more than he missed. He drafted well, traded well, let go of players that were on the downslide, sign FA's that produced and unearthed talent that nobody wanted...Jason Peters and Jabari Greer.

The problem with Donahoe had nothing to do with him, it was the OWNER. I have said it for years and now with what is happening today, it proves the criticism of the owner is justified.

I will take heat for the post, but I think history will remember Donahoe better as time goes on.

If he would have allowed the money to re-sign the likes of Pat Williams and Peerless Price, perhaps the Bills would not be the Lions of the AFC.

The biggest problem Donahoe had was failure to pick a good HEAD COACH. Mularkey & Williams both failed. Williams was responsable for getting rid of Pat Williams because he didn't fit his defense. Price was way overpaid by Atlanta, he thought he was a #1 when he was only a #2 receiver.

[better days]

Wilson is your downfall....see Jauron, Marv the GM, Nix and Chan Gailey.

BTW, who are the good players that the post-Jauron admin brought in?

Jackson, Jarius Bryd, Poz...maybe?

Face it, he was better than the garbage that organization has produced since 2006.

Let's wait until after the next draft to answer that question.

[SABURZFAN]

....with Tom Donahoe.


i don't see it that way.

[IAG]

How can you say you are better off with Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey? Ridiculous....

[Historian]

Let's wait until after the next draft to answer that question.

"Sam Cowart will play where I tell him to play!"

[NOT THE DUDE...]

the 2 draft picks that killed donahoe was mike williams and jp losman. if we would have replaced them with say dwight freeney and ben roethlisberger.. things would have been different....

[IAG]

the 2 draft picks that killed donahoe was mike williams and jp losman. if we would have replaced them with say dwight freeney and ben roethlisberger.. things would have been different....


I agree with that. Donahoe would still be here and we would have been to the playoffs multiple times.

[Dozerdog]

How could he replace Losman with Rothlesberger???


Big Ben was gone when our pick came up.

[IAG]

Nice OC that this new admin just picked. Unreal.

[kernowboy]

Nice OC that this new admin just picked. Unreal.

Considering its a passing team, he's got the Arizona RBs at over 4.0ypc including Hightower from 2.8yds to 4.2yds since last year. He's also developed Jamaal Charles when at KC.

They ran for more yards this year than they achieved in the year they made the SuperBowl, and despite fewer yards than Buffalo they had significantly fewer carries.

But don't let the facts distract you.

[EDS]

Williams, Losman and McGahee have to be three of the worst 1st round flops of the decade. I get what you're saying about how at least there was some talent here at that time, and that get's amplified by how bare the cupboards have been the last four years, but I still don't see us being much better if Donahoe had stuck around. Definitely not as competitive as we'd all like to see...

I think Mike Williams fits in the description of worst first round flops of the decade, but Losman and McGahee clearly do not. McGahee and Losman were both drafted lower in the first round, so expectations and costs are not the same.

McGahee does have close to 6000 career rushing yards and 50 touchdowns, which is not shabby. L

osman, well, he stunk. But based on where he was drafted, hard to call him more of a bust then very high draft picks like JaMarcus Russell, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, etc. (and those are just QBs).

[IAG]

Considering its a passing team, he's got the Arizona RBs at over 4.0ypc including Hightower from 2.8yds to 4.2yds since last year. He's also developed Jamaal Charles when at KC.

They ran for more yards this year than they achieved in the year they made the SuperBowl, and despite fewer yards than Buffalo they had significantly fewer carries.

But don't let the facts distract you.


How has he done calling plays in his career? Oh yeah, he hasn't...but don't let the facts distract you.

[kernowboy]

How has he done calling plays in his career? Oh yeah, he hasn't...but don't let the facts distract you.

Most coaches who get promoted to OC haven't called plays previously. Thats what being promoted means. And everybody started somewhere.

As Galley is an experienced OC as well as being a HC, you're whinging has more holes than a sieve

[BillsMan80]

How has he done calling plays in his career? Oh yeah, he hasn't...but don't let the facts distract you.

Except he's not going to be calling plays. You must be living under a rock otherwise you surely would have heard by now that Gailey is going to call his own plays.

[IAG]

Let you be the first and only supporter of Chan Gailey. I cannot wait to see him match smarts with Bellicheat, Rex Ryan and Mike Nolan.

[kernowboy]

Let you be the first and only supporter of Chan Gailey. I cannot wait to see him match smarts with Bellicheat, Rex Ryan and Mike Nolan.

You'll find most reasonable fans on here are prepared to give Gailey their support, and not ***** about him in the most pathetic fashion before he's even called a play.

That is just ridiculous beyond measure.

He is a head coach with a winning record who made the playoffs every season he was head coach and who Jerry Jones admits sacking him was a mistake despite having a fading and over the hill roster in Dallas.

Until he proves otherwise he should have the support of real Bills fans

[YardRat]

Back to the thread topic....

Only time will tell whether or not TD or Nix had the better influence on the team, and Nix needs to be given that chance.

My guess is Buddy can't do much worse.

[djjimkelly]

Donahoe's team building priorities were dead wrong. Regardless of the caliber of the players he brought to Buffalo, he failed to place an emphasis on the "trench" players.

Too many skill positions and no foundation for them to work from. Leads to failure every time. TD never seemed to figure that out.


look at a team like sandiego besides rivers,gates and tomlinson what offensive weapons could people name from the chargers but all those big men they have on the o line are stars

[djjimkelly]

Back to the thread topic....

Only time will tell whether or not TD or Nix had the better influence on the team, and Nix needs to be given that chance.

My guess is Buddy can't do much worse.

my guess is buddy is the first true evaluator we have had since butler or aj smith in a real position of GM and he is gonna bring in some players for the first time in a long time

[Mad Bomber]

I think Mike Williams fits in the description of worst first round flops of the decade, but Losman and McGahee clearly do not. McGahee and Losman were both drafted lower in the first round, so expectations and costs are not the same.
.

My problem with those two picks are that 1) we picked McGahee when we KNEW he couldn't play in the following year. We needed a TE (still do), and the very next pick was Dallas Clark to the Colts and 2) we actually traded UP to get Losman in the first round.

[BertSquirtgum]

lay off the crack pipe buddy. your brain will be better off

[The Natrix]

Willis was a good pick. He was the best player on the offense for parts of his time in Buffalo.

[Griff]

Still trying to recover....look at the guys he brought in that a staring in the league...some this weekend.

Pat Williams
Aaron Schobel
Chris Kelsey
London Fletcher
Takeo Spikes
Lawyer Milloy
Terrence McGee
Lee Evans
Jason Peters
Willis McGahee
Jabari Greer
Brian Moorman

Those guys that are still with the Bills are the team's best players.

I do not want to even get into what he did with the Steelers.

London, Takeo, McGee, and Peters are shells of thier former selves

Lee Evans is a one dimensional player
Aaron Schobel is a garbage time pass rusher
Kelsey? REALLY? You're going to defend him with Kelsey?
He released Pat Williams
McGahee was terrible with Buffalo
Moorman is a punter... A PUNTER

TD was a failure, pure and simple.

[Griff]

Willis wasn't a good pick. He was the laziest player on the team for his time in Buffalo.

FYP

[Griff]

Let you be the first and only supporter of Chan Gailey. I cannot wait to see him match smarts with Bellicheat, Rex Ryan and Mike Nolan.

Wow and I thought HH was bad.

[Syderick]

London, Takeo, McGee, and Peters are shells of thier former selves

Lee Evans is a one dimensional player
Aaron Schobel is a garbage time pass rusher
Kelsey? REALLY? You're going to defend him with Kelsey?
He released Pat Williams
McGahee was terrible with Buffalo
Moorman is a punter... A PUNTER

TD was a failure, pure and simple.

Lee Evans is underrated
Aaron Schobel is a decent pass rusher
Brian Moorman is a good punter

Other then that, I agree with you.

[jamze132]

Two words....

Chris Watson

[IAG]

Chris Watson was a Butler and Wade pick up....remember Wade called him a "punt catcher" not a "punt returner"

[Griff]

Lee Evans is underrated
Aaron Schobel is a decent pass rusher
Brian Moorman is a good punter

Other then that, I agree with you.

I used to feel that way, but Lee has never shown any sign of being more than a streak route receiver.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

How can you say you are better off with Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey? Ridiculous....

How can you say we're not? That's more ridiculous. Buddy and Chan haven't even done anything yet to be judged. I think you should wait till preseason before passing judgment. By then we will know what we have.

[IAG]

How can you say we're not? That's more ridiculous. Buddy and Chan haven't even done anything yet to be judged. I think you should wait till preseason before passing judgment. By then we will know what we have.

I do not get your logic. This is a uninspiring hirer that has busted out yawns throughout Bills Nation and the media.

The Bills need a QB, another, WR, 4 O-linemen, a DT, 2 OLB's, CB...

Good luck. Don't blame Donahoe for those shortcomings....there is one constant in all of this: Ralph Wilson.

[kernowboy]

I do not get your logic. This is a uninspiring hirer that has busted out yawns throughout Bills Nation and the media.

The Bills need a QB, another, WR, 4 O-linemen, a DT, 2 OLB's, CB...

Good luck. Don't blame Donahoe for those shortcomings....there is one constant in all of this: Ralph Wilson.

4 offensive lineman? We need a LT - that's all. After that we'll have 9 OL with good depth all of who can start in a pinch

Levitre
Hangartner
Wood
Butler

with depth from

Bell
Meredith
Incognito
Scott

That's an OL roster that most GMs would leap at. All we need is a LT

[IAG]

The Bills offensive line sucks. Keep drinking the Kool-aid, man. It is the worst in the league. You named a bunch of guys that should be back ups that have proven squat in this league.

By far that is the worst line in the division. Easily.

[kernowboy]

The Bills offensive line sucks. Keep drinking the Kool-aid, man. It is the worst in the league. You named a bunch of guys that should be back ups that have proven squat in this league.

By far that is the worst line in the division. Easily.

I'm fairly certain you are not a Bills fan.

No offensive line would have survived under the injuries the team had. Last season there was only one holdover Butler, playing in a new position, two new rookies, a new free agent and a rookie at LT. With injuries to the most senior player Butler almost immediately, no line and no coaching could have overcome that.

The OL has the potential to as good as any in the league.

But you want to bring in 4 new players and think you'll find immediate cohesion? Insanity

Butler is a solid RT, Hangartner started really well before the line fell down through injuries, both Levitre and Wood were impressive in their rookie seasons.

Only a Bills hater would say otherwise.

[IAG]

The Bills talent on the O-line stinks. Sorry. The names you listed do not strike much free in the opponent nor will adding a rookie LT.