What successful team in the NFL built it's success thru the draft?

[imbondz]

even tho the Patriots make my skin crawl, shouldn't our front office be learning from them how to build a team? Even Randy Moss said recently, New England is a team, he emphasized what a team the entire organization is.

I hate the idea of putting all our stock in the draft. We should be concentrating on FA and trades, and use the draft to compliment who we pick up thru trades. Not the other way around. No?

[Buffalo Thriller]

Few, Patriots have and will continue with that stockpile of draft picks.

[Typ0]

it's a cliche that isn't really true. When you draft well you have a competitive advantage is all. Then if you can fit in the other pieces you have a winner. You also need a grooming environment that does the right thing with the draft picks. Our organization is such a joke right from the top I don't doubt we could have had some good players that were ruined.

[X-Era]

Few, Patriots have and will continue with that stockpile of draft picks.Look at their past 5 drafts and you may not be saying that.

They made maybe the leagues best pick ever with Brady and drafted Wilfork and Seymour... outside of that, all those picks didnt really improve their success. In fact if you look at the number of busts for that team in the past 5 or more years, its probably worse than a lot of the league.

If you look at the Pats, just having more picks doesn't mean you will end up with more great players apparently.

[Buffalo Thriller]

Who knows with Brady. It was a get lucky thing when Bledsoe was injured.

[X-Era]

Pats 2004 Draft:

<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_round/1.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">21(21)</td> <td class="TData1" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Vince Wilfork (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/44610.html)*</td> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">DT (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_position/dt.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Miami (FL) (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_school/miamifla.html)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_round/1.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">32(32)</td> <td class="TData2" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Benjamin Watson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/31397.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">TE (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_position/te.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Georgia (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_school/georgia.html)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">2 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_round/2.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">31(63)</td> <td class="TData1" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Marquise Hill (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/32041.html)*</td> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">DE (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_position/de.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">LSU (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_school/lsu.html)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_round/3.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">32(95)</td> <td class="TData2" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Guss Scott (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/31232.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">S (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_position/s.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Florida (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_school/florida.html)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">4 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_round/4.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">17(113)</td> <td class="TData1" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Dexter Reid (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/45427.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">S (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_position/s.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">North Carolina (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_school/unc.html)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">4 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_round/4.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">32(128)</td> <td class="TData2" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Cedric Cobbs (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/41173.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">RB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_position/rb.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Arkansas (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_school/arkansas.html)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">5 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_round/5.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">32(164)</td> <td class="TData1" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">P.K. Sam (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/43055.html)*</td> <td class="TData1" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">WR (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_position/wr.html)</td> <td class="TData1" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Florida St. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_school/floridast.html)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">7 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_round/7.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">32(233)</td> <td class="TData2" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Christian Morton (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/43356.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="center" nowrap="nowrap">CB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_position/cb.html)</td> <td class="TData2" align="left" nowrap="nowrap">Illinois (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/breakdowns/by_school/illinois.html)</td></tr></tbody></table>
1 very good player- Wilfork, 1 decent player- Watson.

2005:

<table class="cnnContent cnnMedium" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"><td>1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_round/1.html)</td> <td>32(32)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Logan Mankins (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/67218.html)</td> <td>OG (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_position/og.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Fresno St. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_school/fresnost.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData2 cnnSmall"> <td>3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_round/3.html)</td> <td>20(84)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Ellis Hobbs (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/58355.html)</td> <td>CB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_position/cb.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Iowa St. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_school/iowast.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"> <td>3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_round/3.html)</td> <td>37(100)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Nick Kaczur (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/62967.html)</td> <td>OT (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_position/ot.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Toledo (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_school/toledo.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData2 cnnSmall"> <td>4 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_round/4.html)</td> <td>32(133)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">James Sanders (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/67165.html)</td> <td>S (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_position/s.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Fresno St. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_school/fresnost.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"> <td>5 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_round/5.html)</td> <td>34(170)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Ryan Claridge (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/63437.html)</td> <td>OLB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_position/olb.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">UNLV (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_school/unlv.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData2 cnnSmall"> <td>7 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_round/7.html)</td> <td>16(230)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Matt Cassel (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/55725.html)</td> <td>QB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_position/qb.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Southern Cal (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_school/usc.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"> <td>7 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_round/7.html)</td> <td>41(255)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Andy Stokes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/80713.html)</td> <td>TE (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_position/te.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">William Penn (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/breakdowns/by_school/williampenn.html)</td></tr></tbody></table>
1 very good player- Mankins,1 decent player- Cassel

2006:

<table class="cnnContent cnnMedium" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"><td>1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/1.html)</td> <td>21(21)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Laurence Maroney (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/5337.html)</td> <td>RB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/rb.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Minnesota (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/minnes.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData2 cnnSmall"> <td>2 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/2.html)</td> <td>4(36)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Chad Jackson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/5609.html)</td> <td>WR (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/wr.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Florida (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/florid.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"> <td>3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/3.html)</td> <td>22(86)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">David Thomas (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/2528.html)</td> <td>TE (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/te.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Texas (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/texas.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData2 cnnSmall"> <td>4 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/4.html)</td> <td>9(106)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Garret Mills (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/47893.html)</td> <td>TE (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/te.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Tulsa (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/tulsa.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"> <td>4 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/4.html)</td> <td>21(118)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Stephen Gostkowski (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/48052.html)</td> <td>K (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/k.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Memphis (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/memphi.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData2 cnnSmall"> <td>5 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/5.html)</td> <td>3(136)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Ryan O'Callaghan (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/47848.html)</td> <td>T (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/t.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">California (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/calif.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"> <td>6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)</td> <td>22(191)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Jeremy Mincey (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/3573.html)</td> <td>DE (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/de.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Florida (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/florid.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData2 cnnSmall"> <td>6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)</td> <td>36(205)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Dan Stevenson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/47861.html)</td> <td>OG (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/og.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Notre Dame (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/notred.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData1 cnnSmall"> <td>6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)</td> <td>37(206)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Le Kevin Smith (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/18475.html)</td> <td>DT (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/dt.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Nebraska (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/nebras.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnData2 cnnSmall"> <td>7 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_round/7.html)</td> <td>21(229)</td> <td class="cnnLeft">Willie Andrews (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/2397.html)</td> <td>S (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_position/s.html)</td> <td class="cnnEndCell cnnLeft">Baylor (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/breakdowns/by_school/baylor.html)</td></tr></tbody></table>
Really nothing out of this draft, maybe you could call Maroney a decent player

2007:

<table class="breakdown" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="row_1"><td class="cell1">1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/1.html)</td> <td class="cell2">24 (24)</td> <td class="cell3"> Brandon Meriweather (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/1667.html)</td> <td class="cell4">S (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/s.html)</td> <td class="cell5">Miami (FL) (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/10.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="row_2"> <td class="cell1">4 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/4.html)</td> <td class="cell2">28 (127)</td> <td class="cell3"> Kareem Brown (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/1656.html)</td> <td class="cell4">DT (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/dt.html)</td> <td class="cell5">Miami (FL) (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/10.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="row_1"> <td class="cell1">5 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/5.html)*</td> <td class="cell2">34 (171)</td> <td class="cell3"> Clint Oldenburg (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/18926.html)</td> <td class="cell4">OL (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/ol.html)</td> <td class="cell5">Colorado State University (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/375.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="row_2"> <td class="cell1">6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)</td> <td class="cell2">6 (180)</td> <td class="cell3"> Justin Rogers (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/3228.html)</td> <td class="cell4">DE (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/de.html)</td> <td class="cell5">Southern Methodist University (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/89.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="row_1"> <td class="cell1">6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)</td> <td class="cell2">28 (202)</td> <td class="cell3"> Mike Richardson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/2393.html)</td> <td class="cell4">CB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/cb.html)</td> <td class="cell5">Notre Dame (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/103.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="row_2"> <td class="cell1">6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)*</td> <td class="cell2">34 (208)</td> <td class="cell3"> Justise Hairston (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/19941.html)</td> <td class="cell4">RB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/rb.html)</td> <td class="cell5">Central Connecticut State (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/161.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="row_1"> <td class="cell1">6 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/6.html)*</td> <td class="cell2">35 (209)</td> <td class="cell3"> Corey Hilliard (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/4960.html)</td> <td class="cell4">T (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/t.html)</td> <td class="cell5">Oklahoma State (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/46.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="row_2"> <td class="cell1">7 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/7.html)</td> <td class="cell2">1 (211)</td> <td class="cell3"> Oscar Lua (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/19216.html)</td> <td class="cell4">ILB (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/ilb.html)</td> <td class="cell5">USC (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/370.html)</td> </tr> <tr class="row_1"> <td class="cell1">7 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_round/7.html)*</td> <td class="cell2">37 (247)</td> <td class="cell3"> Mike Elgin (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/players/1888.html)</td> <td class="cell4">OL (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_position/ol.html)</td> <td class="cell5">University of Iowa (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2007/draft/breakdowns/by_school/48.html)</td></tr></tbody></table>
1 decent player- Merriweather (he was benched he's so good).

2008:

1 10 (10) Jerod Mayo ILB Tennessee
2 31 (62) Terrence Wheatley CB Colorado
3 15 (78) Shawn Crable OLB Michigan
3 31 (94) Kevin O'Connell QB San Diego State
4 30 (129) Jonathan Wilhite CB Auburn
5 18 (153) Matthew Slater S UCLA
6 31 (197) Bo Ruud OLB Nebraska

1 very good player- Jerod Mayo

2009:

2[65] 34 Pat Chung Safety Oregon
2[66] 40 Ron Brace Defensive tackle Boston College
2[67] 41 Darius Butler Cornerback Connecticut
2 58 Sebastian Vollmer Offensive tackle Houston
3[67] 83 Brandon Tate Wide receiver North Carolina
3 97 Tyrone McKenzie Linebacker South Florida
4[68] 123 Rich Ohrnberger Offensive guard Penn State
5 170 George Bussey Offensive guard Louisville
6[68] 198 Jake Ingram Long snapper Hawaii
6 207 Myron Pryor Defensive tackle Kentucky
7[69] 232 Julian Edelman Wide receiver Kent State
7 234 Darryl Richard Defensive tackle Georgia Tech

Can we call any of them decent? Maybe Chung and Tate

So out of 53 picks between the 2004 and 2009 drafts, they got 3 very good players, and a questionable 6 decent players?

Thats good drafting????

3 for 53 is 5.6% very good players

6 for 50 (I took the very good players out) is 12% decent players

I havent done the work, but Id imagine were about on par with that.

[YardRat]

There isn't a team in the league, successful or not, that has been built through the draft.

[Joe Fo Sho]

There isn't a team in the league, successful or not, that has been built through the draft.

INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

[X-Era]

There isn't a team in the league, successful or not, that has been built through the draft.

I'm trying to figure out whether you should have said "built solely through the draft".

I guess it works either way.

[X-Era]

INDIANAPOLIS COLTSIf anything that team shows what a HOF franchise QB can do for you.

[YardRat]

I'm trying to figure out whether you should have said "built solely through the draft".

I guess it works either way.

I considered 'exclusively', but that would've been too obvious.

[DesertFox24]

Buddy never said he was only going to use the draft, what he said is he wants to draft his stars, pay people the bills drafted, and sign value FA.

In other words we will never sign the Karlos Dansby's of the world.

[BillsWin]

We still need Luck.

[Ed]

I think the Chargers, Packers, Colts and Steelers have done a good job of building through the draft.

Free agency seems to be getting thinner and thinner each year. The combination of a lack of available talent and competing with so many teams makes it impossible to build through free agency. How often do franchise type players hit free agency? Plus, the Bills are at a huge disadvantage right now by being one of the least attractive franchises to any potential free agent.

You build the foundation of your team through the draft and fill in key pieces with free agency. And it's hard to significantly improve your team with trades because that requires you giving up something of equal value.

[Commissioner]

The draft is all Bill Polian really does..... He's so good that when one of his players doesn't make it... it's big news... like that Tony Ugo guy.

[psubills62]

Packers.

[Mad Max]

even tho the Patriots make my skin crawl, shouldn't our front office be learning from them how to build a team? Even Randy Moss said recently, New England is a team, he emphasized what a team the entire organization is.

I hate the idea of putting all our stock in the draft. We should be concentrating on FA and trades, and use the draft to compliment who we pick up thru trades. Not the other way around. No?
No. How can you assemble a 53 man roster "mostly" through FA or trades?

The Draft is the foundation, that is what is used to build the framework of teams. Then use FA and trades to fill in the blanks. Not necessarily saying that the weighting is always going to be equal, ie one or two key FA may have more importance overall than many of the drafted foundation, but that by no means negates the value/necessity of that foundation.

[Ingtar33]

even tho the Patriots make my skin crawl, shouldn't our front office be learning from them how to build a team? Even Randy Moss said recently, New England is a team, he emphasized what a team the entire organization is.

I hate the idea of putting all our stock in the draft. We should be concentrating on FA and trades, and use the draft to compliment who we pick up thru trades. Not the other way around. No?


the Colts are almost completely undrafted free agents, and colts draft picks... the year they won the superbowl they had just 3 people on their roster from FA...

[Dr. Lecter]

Build through the draft and supplement through FA and trades.

[RoscoeMagic]

Ravens

[Joe Fo Sho]

So.... a whole bunch of good teams build through the draft then?

[imbondz]

So.... a whole bunch of good teams build through the draft then?

I don't think anyone really knows

[better days]

No. How can you assemble a 53 man roster "mostly" through FA or trades?

The Draft is the foundation, that is what is used to build the framework of teams. Then use FA and trades to fill in the blanks. Not necessarily saying that the weighting is always going to be equal, ie one or two key FA may have more importance overall than many of the drafted foundation, but that by no means negates the value/necessity of that foundation.

Well, I can think of one team that has tried to assemble a team mostly through FA & trades. The Redskins.

[billz83]

If anything that team shows what a HOF franchise QB can do for you.

and what a hall of fame GM in polian can do for u..but u NEED to get good FA and not solely rely on the draft because thas a losing formula..

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Well, looking at the 2010 Buffalo Bills and their last five or so drafts, a team needs to draft successfully to be somewhere.

[Raptor]

Colts, Packers, Steelers, Chargers, Ravens, and the Titans were all built through the drft using FA'cy to augment the process

its pretty simple you draft well and you do well. The draft should be your main pipeline of talent

[X-Era]

I don't think anyone really knows

Thats probably true.

[Mahdi]

I don't think anyone really knows
Of course we know....

Colts:

All 22 starters are drafted or undrafted FAs of the Colts.


Ravens:

16 of 22 starters are original Ravens


Packers:

20 of 22 starters are original Packers

Bengals: 15 of 22

Patriots: 16 of 22

Chargers: 21 of 22

Cowboys: 17 of 22

Eagles: 17 of 22

Giants: 20 of 22

Teams that have many FAs playing for them and are successful is rare. Like the Saints and Vikings.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Well, I can think of one team that has tried to assemble a team mostly through FA & trades. The Redskins.

A few others are the Patriots, Ravens, Saints, Vikings, Bears, Jets. Get back to us when you get a clue. TaTa :teary:

[Ickybaluky]

X-Era, have you looked at drafts compared to the rest of the NFL? Your criteria is curious. I also noticed that you leave off the Pats drafts prior to 2004, in which they drafted many foundation players for their Super Bowl teams. Also, draft position needs to be accounted for, as the Pats have been drafting in the lower part of rounds in most of the drafts.

Let's look at it, though.


Pats 2004 Draft:
...
1 very good player- Wilfork, 1 decent player- Watson.

2 starters in a draft isn't terrible, and they also got Randall Gay as a FA, who started for them (including in the 2004 Super Bowl) and has gone on to win another Super Bowl after leaving NE as a FA for New Orleans. You get 3 starters in a draft that isn't bad.


2005:
...
1 very good player- Mankins,1 decent player- Cassel

Seriously? This might be one of the best drafts Belichick had and one of the best in the NFL that year. Mankins is one of the best at his position in the NFL. Ellis Hobbs has been a starter and a very good kick returner for both the Pats and Eagles. Kaczur has started for them at RT since his rookie year and been a solid player. Sanders has rotated between starting and being a 3rd S, he is a smart player who contributes on ST. Cassel won 11 games when Brady got hurt, and they were able to flip him for a 2nd round pick (how many 7th round QB can say that?). Their undrafed class was stellar that year as well, providing Mike Wright (starting at DE for them now, and a solid, versatile DL) and Robbie Gould (who couldn't make the Pats because of Vinatieri, but went on to be a good NFL K for the Bears).


2006:
...
Really nothing out of this draft, maybe you could call Maroney a decent player

This was the start of the barren period. The best player in this draft was Gostkowski, who is one of the NFL's best K. They didn't really get any other starters, so this is not a good draft.


2007:
...
1 decent player- Merriweather (he was benched he's so good).

Meriweather was benched for 2 games. He returned to the starting lineup and is a good player. He is a starter. They also managed to trade picks for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, which isn't too bad. That is 3 starters out of the draft.


2008:
...
1 very good player- Jerod Mayo

Mayo is a good player. Wheatley and Crable haven't been able to stay healthy, but they are still on the team and may yet contribute. Jonathan Wilhite has been a reserve CB, but not a starting-caliber player. He does a decent job covering slot guys. Matt Slater is a core ST guy, and one of the best punt gunners in the NFL. This draft was helped a lot by getting Gary Guyton and BenJarvus Green-Ellis in the undrafted class. Guyton is a very fast nickel LB, and Green-Ellis is their leading rusher this year. Green-Ellis is a player on the rise, a tough inside runner who is a good player.


2009:
...
Can we call any of them decent? Maybe Chung and Tate

This was a great draft. Patrick Chung is a big hitter and one of the best young S in the NFL. Brace has come on in his 2nd year, a big body who rotates in at DE. Darius Butler has struggled some this year, but he is a talented CB who has a bright future. Sebastian Vollmer is one of the best young OT in the NFL, and the Pats LT of the future when Light moves on. Brandon Tate is a great returner, and now their deep threat, he was a real steal in this draft. Myron Pryor rotates in on the DL, mostly playing on passing downs. Edelman is a solid 3rd WR already, a guy who fits their offense great with his run-after-catch skills. Ingram is their long-term solution at LS. Ohrnberger, a reserve OL, is one of those guys who they develop and steps in on the OL (they have a history of developing OL, like current LG Dan Connolly). McKenzie lost his rookie year to an ACL, but is still on their PS and may yet contribute. Add in Brian Hoyer, their backup QB who has performed well in preseasons and shows command for the position.

The Pats already have 3 starters (Chung, Vollmer, Tate) from this draft, as well as several guys playing roles on gameday (Brace, Ingram, Pryor, Edelman).

Also, the 2010 draft is their best since 2004. McCourty is the real deal and is already starting. Gronkowski and Hernandez are both great young TE. Cunningham plays about half the snaps and is improving each week. Spikes is a run-down ILB. Mesko is their Punter. Price and Deadrick are reserves. They traded a draft pick for Tracy White, who is leading the team in ST tackles.

[Ickybaluky]

BTW, Green Bay leads the NFL is most players on their roster who were drafted by the team. So they were built more through the draft than any other team in the NFL.

[better days]

A few others are the Patriots, Ravens, Saints, Vikings, Bears, Jets. Get back to us when you get a clue. TaTa :teary:

Listen HYPOCRITE. I am sick & tired of you telling others not to insult you in one post & then having you insult me in another. CEASE & DESIST your insults of me at once.

Get a clue yourself & learn to read. I said the Skins are one team I could think of, I DID NOT proclaim them to be the only team to sign free agents.

Having said that I am pretty sure Synder has spent more money on FA than any other owner.

[Beebe's Kid]

In regards to the discussion at hand, in my opinion, I look at trades a whole lot differently than I look at FA. Relying on FA signings is a mistake.

This year was particularly bad, although there are many that claim we could have had them all...

[Beebe's Kid]

Listen HYPOCRITE. I am sick & tired of you telling others not to insult you in one post & then having you insult me in another. CEASE & DESIST your insults of me at once.

Get a clue yourself & learn to read. I said the Skins are one team I could think of, I DID NOT proclaim them to be the only team to sign free agents.

Having said that I am pretty sure Synder has spent more money on FA than any other owner.

You'll have to put him and his 16 aliases on "ignore" there is an infestation, and it should go away soon....they always go away if they aren't fed.

[Tatonka]

Look at their past 5 drafts and you may not be saying that.

They made maybe the leagues best pick ever with Brady and drafted Wilfork and Seymour... outside of that, all those picks didnt really improve their success. In fact if you look at the number of busts for that team in the past 5 or more years, its probably worse than a lot of the league.

If you look at the Pats, just having more picks doesn't mean you will end up with more great players apparently.

yeah.. the bottom line with the pats is that they have brady and he is one of the best qbs ever.. if you have a great qb, it masks a ton of issues.. look at manning.. have you ever seen peyton have a bad offensive line? he makes everyone look good.. doesnt matter who it is.. wrs play better.. the line looks like allstars, and the running backs can run.. it is all based on having a great qb.

[psubills62]

It's pretty obvious to nearly everyone that great teams build their core through the draft. Yes, nearly every team signs free agents. But the bottom line is that for pretty much all teams except the Saints, the CORE of a team is built through the draft.

Look at teams like the Patriots - yeah, they traded for Moss, signed Adalius Thomas, etc. But what's the core of that team? During their SB run, it was their DL, OL, and Brady. All guys they drafted. Look at the Giants - DL, OL, QB, all draftees. Look at the Colts and Packers - pretty much everyone on those teams was drafted by those teams. Look at the Ravens - they've signed a few FA's and traded a couple times, but the OL, QB, and defense is pretty much all draft picks. Even look at the Jets - they're one of the poster teams for free agency, but would they really be that good without guys like Revis, Ferguson, Mangold, Cotchery, Keller, Pouha, etc.?

There's no question that pretty much all NFL teams use free agency and trades to improve their roster - some more than others. But there's always a certain way that they use free agency: to supplement the roster and complement their core of draft picks.

We have to build our core through the draft, especially now with the uncertainty regarding the CBA. Do you guys remember how slim the pickings were this offseason in FA?

[justasportsfan]

Build through the draft and supplement through FA and trades.


Word!!

[Mad Max]

Here's a very compelling article I found on the subject. Look past the fact that the data was compiled by a cowgirl fan, and you'll see some illuminating information.

Although it only uses one year of data, 2009, I think by the way the percentages fall it would easily extrapolate all the way out.

In that year there were only eight teams that had less than 60% of homegrown talent on their teams, the entire league averaged a full 69% homegrown talent.

That means almost 7/10 of every teams roster was homegrown.

Your honor we (those of us who espouse the "build through the draft" theory) rest our case.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/4/14/1419402/the-nfl-draft-by-numbers-building

[DynaPaul]

The Cowboys in the 1990's. Now all we need is a Herschel Walker to trade to some sucker team...

[Mad Max]

The Cowboys in the 1990's. Now all we need is a Herschel Walker to trade to some sucker team...
This dude wishes Herschel was still playing football (I bet he still could).

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[Ickybaluky]

yeah.. the bottom line with the pats is that they have brady and he is one of the best qbs ever.. if you have a great qb, it masks a ton of issues.. look at manning.. have you ever seen peyton have a bad offensive line? he makes everyone look good.. doesnt matter who it is.. wrs play better.. the line looks like allstars, and the running backs can run.. it is all based on having a great qb.

I don't disagree that having an elite QB is a great benefit, but the Pats went 11-5 with Matt Cassel in 2008. That shows that it isn't the only factor.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Listen HYPOCRITE. I am sick & tired of you telling others not to insult you in one post & then having you insult me in another. CEASE & DESIST your insults of me at once.

Get a clue yourself & learn to read. I said the Skins are one team I could think of, I DID NOT proclaim them to be the only team to sign free agents.

Having said that I am pretty sure Synder has spent more money on FA than any other owner.

:wtf: Oh please, you've been mighty quick with the insults insults yourself my friend, so quit your whining.

However, given your sensitive nature I will take the high road going forward and will only fire when fired upon. LOL.

As Rodney King so eloquently said, "Can we all just get along?" LOL.

Make it a great weekend!

GO BILLS !

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

:wtf: Oh please, you've been mighty quick with the insults insults yourself my friend, so quit your whining.

However, given your sensitive nature I will take the high road going forward and will only fire when fired upon. LOL.

As Rodney King so eloquently said, "Can we all just get along?" LOL.

Make it a great weekend!

GO BILLS !
Way to take the high road, bro. Nice.:awm:

[better days]

:wtf: Oh please, you've been mighty quick with the insults insults yourself my friend, so quit your whining.

However, given your sensitive nature I will take the high road going forward and will only fire when fired upon. LOL.

As Rodney King so eloquently said, "Can we all just get along?" LOL.

Make it a great weekend!

GO BILLS !

I only insulted you in defending myself from your PRIOR insults.

[better days]

I only insulted you in defending myself from your PRIOR insults.

Yeah better days, I saw that he insulted you first. Everyone on this board knows it is not your nature to insult others.

[better days]

Yeah better days, I saw that he insulted you first. Everyone on this board knows it is not your nature to insult others.

Thanks for having my back.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

I only insulted you in defending myself from your PRIOR insults.

:bs: Lets just agree to disagree here. Have a great weekend my friend.

[better days]

:bs: Lets just agree to disagree here. Have a great weekend my friend.

Fine, just stop with the BS & insults Dr. err I mean Taylor.

[Dr. Taylor Zaius]

Fine, just stop with the BS & insults Dr. err I mean Taylor.

Your not trying very hard to be cordial and honest now are you? Can't have it both ways kid. :fishy:

[X-Era]

Lets start from the beginning. First, yeah I expect you to defend the Pats. Lets start there.
Pats 2004 Draft:


2 starters in a draft isn't terrible, and they also got Randall Gay as a FA, who started for them (including in the 2004 Super Bowl) and has gone on to win another Super Bowl after leaving NE as a FA for New Orleans. You get 3 starters in a draft that isn't bad.
We are talking about the draft, Gay doesn't count and isn't that great anyways.


Seriously? This might be one of the best drafts Belichick had and one of the best in the NFL that year. Mankins is one of the best at his position in the NFL. Ellis Hobbs has been a starter and a very good kick returner for both the Pats and Eagles. Kaczur has started for them at RT since his rookie year and been a solid player. Sanders has rotated between starting and being a 3rd S, he is a smart player who contributes on ST. Cassel won 11 games when Brady got hurt, and they were able to flip him for a 2nd round pick (how many 7th round QB can say that?). Their undrafted class was stellar that year as well, providing Mike Wright (starting at DE for them now, and a solid, versatile DL) and Robbie Gould (who couldn't make the Pats because of Vinatieri, but went on to be a good NFL K for the Bears).
1) Mankins is so good that the Pats can afford to have him holdout? Regardless, I said he was a very good player. I gave the credit where its due.

2) Hobbs? Hobbs is so good that the Pats have been dying to get an upgrade on a secondary that everyone knows is there biggest weakness. No, Hobbs is a marginal starter, not even solid. Being a starter doesn't mean your solid... ask several Bills players.

3) Kaczur may be a solid player, but Id offer that no matter who ends up on that line, Brady makes them look pretty good. Mankins goes out and you see no real change... proves my point.

4) Being the 3rd S doesn't make Sanders a solid starter... sorry.


This was the start of the barren period. The best player in this draft was Gostkowski, who is one of the NFL's best K. They didn't really get any other starters, so this is not a good draft.
Gostkowski is not one of the leagues best kickers and if your best pick is a kicker, you didn't have a great draft.


1 decent player- Merriweather (he was benched he's so good).

Merriweather was benched for 2 games. He returned to the starting lineup and is a good player. He is a starter.
As I said, no disagreement.


They also managed to trade picks for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, which isn't too bad. That is 3 starters out of the draft.

Trading for players is not drafting players. This thread is about how well a team drafts. That makes this part irrelevant.


Mayo is a good player. Wheatley and Crable haven't been able to stay healthy, but they are still on the team and may yet contribute. Jonathan Wilhite has been a reserve CB, but not a starting-caliber player. He does a decent job covering slot guys. Matt Slater is a core ST guy, and one of the best punt gunners in the NFL. This draft was helped a lot by getting Gary Guyton and BenJarvus Green-Ellis in the undrafted class. Guyton is a very fast nickel LB, and Green-Ellis is their leading rusher this year. Green-Ellis is a player on the rise, a tough inside runner who is a good player.
So you basically agreed. I mean punt gunners? Green-Ellis is undrafted and again out of the equation. This is about who the Pats drafted.


This was a great draft. Patrick Chung is a big hitter and one of the best young S in the NFL. Brace has come on in his 2nd year, a big body who rotates in at DE. Darius Butler has struggled some this year, but he is a talented CB who has a bright future. Sebastian Vollmer is one of the best young OT in the NFL, and the Pats LT of the future when Light moves on. Brandon Tate is a great returner, and now their deep threat, he was a real steal in this draft. Myron Pryor rotates in on the DL, mostly playing on passing downs. Edelman is a solid 3rd WR already, a guy who fits their offense great with his run-after-catch skills. Ingram is their long-term solution at LS. Ohrnberger, a reserve OL, is one of those guys who they develop and steps in on the OL (they have a history of developing OL, like current LG Dan Connolly). McKenzie lost his rookie year to an ACL, but is still on their PS and may yet contribute. Add in Brian Hoyer, their backup QB who has performed well in preseasons and shows command for the position.
1) Patrick Chung has done a whole bunch of nothing outside of this year and really only has one good game this year to stick his name to. At best he deserves a "decent player" status and even that isn't proven over time.

2) Butler hasn't proved anything yet.

3) Your claim for Vollmer is at best homerism and at worst hilarious. Decent? I can give you that. But there is a huge difference between that and best in the NFL.

4) Tate I listed as a decent player, until he shows something more than an occasional return ability, thats all he's worth, sorry.

The 2010 draft is less than a 1/4 of the way through the 1st year. I agree that it looks to be a good one for the Pats. But to me, thats the first one thats good since 04 at least. Even for a team that gets a ton of picks.

Overall you didnt really refute my claims. Any team that drafts half again or twice as many players should get half again or twice as many studs, yet they ended up with the same number or even less that the best in the league... That's not impressive.

[X-Era]

I don't disagree that having an elite QB is a great benefit, but the Pats went 11-5 with Matt Cassel in 2008. That shows that it isn't the only factor.It doesn't show that their drafts were the rest of the reason either.

The Pats, unlike the Bills, do it at all phases. They get a few good or great players out of each draft usually, they sign vets who can play solid for them, and they trade their players for more picks and trade for players who are significant in most cases.

Again, this thread is about building a team through the draft. And my claim is that a) the Pats are no better than anyone else at drafting, they may even be worse, and b) they have stayed so competitive because they dont build solely on the the draft.

[better days]

Your not trying very hard to be cordial and honest now are you? Can't have it both ways kid. :fishy:

PLEASE. BOTH of your posts were more insulting to me. Here is an idea............do not respond to my posts & I will not respond to yours.

[YardRat]

Here's a very compelling article I found on the subject. Look past the fact that the data was compiled by a cowgirl fan, and you'll see some illuminating information.

Although it only uses one year of data, 2009, I think by the way the percentages fall it would easily extrapolate all the way out.

In that year there were only eight teams that had less than 60% of homegrown talent on their teams, the entire league averaged a full 69% homegrown talent.

That means almost 7/10 of every teams roster was homegrown.

Your honor we (those of us who espouse the "build through the draft" theory) rest our case.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/4/14/1419402/the-nfl-draft-by-numbers-building

Great link.

Sort the chart by 'Talent Total', which equals % of team drafted and UDFA's.

Of the top 16 teams, from a 'homegrown talent' standpoint, four (Ravens, Buccaneers, Colts, Patriots) have won a total of six SB in the last 11 years (the 2000's).

Saints = #26, Steelers (twice) = #21, Giants = #17, Rams = #24. The Bills were ranked 18th.

I realize these are skewed, considering the #'s don't reflect a corresponding snapshot of the exact year the teams won Super Bowls, but look at the top 16 and compare that to team success in 2009 alone...

Jax, Green Bay, Baltimore, SF, Indy, Carolina, Arizona, Dallas, Philly, Titans, Texans, Bears, Bucs, Raiders, Falcons, Patriots. Total w/l = 148-108. Only four teams had losing records, and two of those were really one switched outcome from a loss to a win away from .500. The Bucs (3-13) and the Raiders (5-11) are the anomalies.

Then again, 7 of the top ten 16 teams made the playoffs while the other 5 post-season teams came from the bottom half of the chart.

Interesting stuff.

[Ickybaluky]

Again, this thread is about building a team through the draft. And my claim is that a) the Pats are no better than anyone else at drafting, they may even be worse, and b) they have stayed so competitive because they dont build solely on the the draft.

I guess we disagree on what building through the draft is. Any team that can get 3 starters for a winning team has a good draft. If you look at the history of the draft, it is rare to get more than that. Also, role players are important to winning teams. If you get good role players, like top ST players (which Slater is), that is a good pick.

Limiting it to the draft is silly as well, really any young player a team develops should count. Why wouldn't undrafted players count. Why wouldn't picking up a young player off waivers count if he becomes a good player? Good teams develop young talent. That is why the Pats have been able to win, despite not picking high in most years. The same is true for the Steelers, Colts, etc.

If you look at what the Pats have done, they have rebuilt the team with young players. They went from the 2nd oldest team in the NFL when the season ended last year, to the 5th youngest after the Moss trade. That is building through the draft.

One final note, are you kidding about Goskowski? I mean, seriously? They guy was All-Pro in 2008 (leading the NFL in points). He, not Adam Vinatieri, is the most accurate kicker in the history of the Pats. In fact, he is currently the 8th most accurate kicker in NFL history. On top of that, he is a great kickoff guy (football, when you get to the basics, is a field position game), finishing among the league leaders in touchbacks every season (no easy feat considering he plays outside in the northeast). Finally, he has been solid in the post-season as well, going 9-for-11 on FG.

[X-Era]

I guess we disagree on what building through the draft is. Any team that can get 3 starters for a winning team has a good draft. If you look at the history of the draft, it is rare to get more than that. Also, role players are important to winning teams. If you get good role players, like top ST players (which Slater is), that is a good pick.

Limiting it to the draft is silly as well, really any young player a team develops should count. Why wouldn't undrafted players count. Why wouldn't picking up a young player off waivers count if he becomes a good player? Good teams develop young talent. That is why the Pats have been able to win, despite not picking high in most years. The same is true for the Steelers, Colts, etc.

If you look at what the Pats have done, they have rebuilt the team with young players. They went from the 2nd oldest team in the NFL when the season ended last year, to the 5th youngest after the Moss trade. That is building through the draft.

One final note, are you kidding about Goskowski? I mean, seriously? They guy was All-Pro in 2008 (leading the NFL in points). He, not Adam Vinatieri, is the most accurate kicker in the history of the Pats. In fact, he is currently the 8th most accurate kicker in NFL history. On top of that, he is a great kickoff guy (football, when you get to the basics, is a field position game), finishing among the league leaders in touchbacks every season (no easy feat considering he plays outside in the northeast). Finally, he has been solid in the post-season as well, going 9-for-11 on FG. 53 picks, and we went through the list and picked out a few players that are solid, and even less that are great... out of 53 since 04 excluding 2010.

The discussion starts and ends there. Please dont argue situational players on ST's or backups... my team has plenty of those.

And as I said, the Pats are not successful solely because of the draft, they are successful because they have a HOF QB and HC, and attack at all facets of the off-season which includes stockpiling picks, trades, and signings. My team wants to claim all you need to do is draft. Yet I cant find a team that has gone from worst to first by that method.

My post on this is not meant to attack a successful franchise, its meant to attack the notion that the Pats are somehow studs at drafting... they arent.

BTW, I'm not even addressing the plot of success by years for the Pats. They are trending downward by the plot. If we are claiming they have it "right", I would expect every year to be a SB win or appearance... they should be getting better after there multiple SB trips, not worse if the stockpiling picks and supposed great drafts. Yet the reverse is true, they are getting worse on average over the past 5 years.

[Ickybaluky]

BTW, I'm not even addressing the plot of success by years for the Pats. They are trending downward by the plot. If we are claiming they have it "right", I would expect every year to be a SB win or appearance... they should be getting better after there multiple SB trips, not worse if the stockpiling picks and supposed great drafts. Yet the reverse is true, they are getting worse on average over the past 5 years.

Superbowls are hard to win. If you are saying they are supposed to be there every year, that is an impossible standard for any team to meet in the league today.

All I know, is the team has been winning consistently for a decade. There is a reason for that, because they do a great job identifying players who fit what they need to do and developing them to fill roles. They won their division last year and are 3-1 this year. Things seem to be pretty consistent to me.

You seem to expect teams to hit on every player in a draft, but historically even the good teams only come away with a few players who help in each draft class. It is rare to get more than that. I mean, if you can do that an win you are doing something right. Look at the Steelers. Look at the Colts.

[X-Era]

Superbowls are hard to win. If you are saying they are supposed to be there every year, that is an impossible standard for any team to meet in the league today.

All I know, is the team has been winning consistently for a decade. There is a reason for that, because they do a great job identifying players who fit what they need to do and developing them to fill roles. They won their division last year and are 3-1 this year. Things seem to be pretty consistent to me.

You seem to expect teams to hit on every player in a draft, but historically even the good teams only come away with a few players who help in each draft class. It is rare to get more than that. I mean, if you can do that an win you are doing something right. Look at the Steelers. Look at the Colts.No, I expect a team that gets "serviced" for their supposed draft prowess to be getting better with all those extra picks not worse.

I think its simply a case of ignorance where the media and some fans arent aware that even though the Pats have worked to end up with a ton of picks, they haven't maintained their level of success and also haven't maintained the quality of their team solely through their drafting.

[YardRat]

The Steelers '74 draft is widely considered to be the best, ever.

Swann, Lambert, Stallworth, Webster and 17 guys never really heard from again.

[SABURZFAN]

Listen HYPOCRITE. I am sick & tired of you telling others not to insult you in one post & then having you insult me in another. CEASE & DESIST your insults of me at once.



quit whining like a *****.