Forked Thread: Does anyone still think Fitz is the answer?

[OpIv37]

Forked from: Does anyone still think Fitz is the answer? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3385495)


Wake up and smell the turnovers.

What the hell is it with this board?

Every time Fitz has a good game, people are ready to crown him the next Jim Kelly. Then he has a bad game and everyone is ready to run him out of town.

Look, he doesn't have a lot of starts under his belt and he'll have his ups and downs. Despite his horrible performance yesterday, it's hard to blame him for this season when the D is last against the run, the highly vaunted Spiller has done nothing, our "big" FA off-season acquisition is no longer on the the team, none of our 1st round picks actually PLAY like first round picks (and at least two hardly play at all), etc.

Is Fitz the next Jim Kelly? I seriously doubt it. But is he the next Todd Collins/JP/Holcomb/Trent? I doubt that as well. I see him in the Mark Rypien/Trent Dilfer/Rich Gannon type role: He's not going to win you games on his own like Brady and Manning, but it is possible to win with him in the right circumstance.

So, what does this mean for the Bills? Well, they shouldn't pass on a QB should the right one come along, But let's consider the state of the team.

-The front 7 on D is an absolute disaster outside of Kyle Williams. Moats and Carrington are showing flashes and get a pass as rookies, but the rest of this unit is completely worthless.

-McKelvin and Florence have both struggled at times this year, and McGee can't stay healthy.

-Whitner is mediocre and Byrd has been exposed.

-While no one on our OL is horrendous, they're all pretty average and could be easily upgraded.

-While all of our WR's are decent, we still lack that one dominant player who is a true #1.

-Our TE's might be the worst in the league.

-Age is catching up with Brian Moorman

So, with the team in that state, how much of our limited resources should be devoted to gambling on a QB? We have a serviceable player. I can't say that about numerous other positions on this team.

Unfortunately, this off-season seems to be shaping up like last off season: our desperate need for a franchise QB doesn't necessarily make one available to us. The Andrew Luck pipe dream is over. So, pick your poison: gamble on a QB or stick with Fitz and pick another position of need. Neither is a very good option.

Stop overreacting to the moment and take a look at the big picture. And yes, I'm well aware of the irony of me making this statement, but that just shows you how absurd it is.

[RockStar36]

Fitz is good enough to start next year while a rookie QB learns the ropes from him. It's been that way since Fitz started playing well. Others saying more or less are being a tad bit ridiculous.

[ZEUS]

Fitz had a bad game, it happens, but he's turning into a very good QB. He needs more talent around him and the defense is terrible. I agree with the OP. Gamble on a QB or stick with Fitz and build the team. A new QB just puts us starting over again. At least we have something to build around. I get a headache reading the Fitz bashing threads.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

just draft the top qb, please for christs sake!

[Joe Fo Sho]

I don't think anyone ever thought he was the answer. My question below still hasn't gotten answered from another thread.


The Bills need a QB
The Bills need a RT.
The Bills need a TE
The Bills need a DT.
The Bills need an ILB.
The Bills need an OLB.
The Bills need a Corner.
The Bills need a Safety.

Once we have those I'll be happy. I don't necessarily think the Bills will get a QB before the other needs. I honestly don't care which one they get first, as long as they are worthy of the pick. If we take a QB for the sake of taking a QB and he turns into a Losman, we've set the franchise back another 5 effing years.

This is a general question towards the Billszone, not towards you necessarily Hurkey:

Where are the people that think Fitzpatrick is the answer?

I haven't heard a single person say that Fitz is all we need and that we don't need to look any further for a QB. The only thing I've heard people say, myself included, is that Fitz is capable of holding down the fort while we fill other positions of need. I'd be surprised if 2 people answer this question and say they feel Fitzpatrick needs no further evaluation to be our Franchise Quarterback.

[Mr. Pink]

I disagree that building your team around a Jon Kitna-esque type player is a wise decision.

Of course this team has many holes, it has for the past 6 years.

Eventually we'll get a GM and scouting department that's worth a damn to actually bring in the right players.

[OpIv37]

I disagree that building your team around a Jon Kitna-esque type player is a wise decision.

Of course this team has many holes, it has for the past 6 years.

Eventually we'll get a GM and scouting department that's worth a damn to actually bring in the right players.

who says you build the team around him? You don't always have to build the team around a QB. Many teams have built around a strong D or running game.

[OpIv37]

just draft the top qb, please for christs sake!

the top QB will be long gone by the time we pick. That's part of the problem. The only way we'd get him is by giving up the few good players we have AND half our draft, which is very unwise on a team with so many holes.

[Mr. Pink]

who says you build the team around him? You don't always have to build the team around a QB. Many teams have built around a strong D or running game.


Look at the offensive style we employ. The offense is centered around the QB and passing the ball. With Gaileys style of offense we need someone better than just average to lead it.

[justasportsfan]

Forked from: Does anyone still think Fitz is the answer? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3385495)



What the hell is it with this board?

Every time Fitz has a good game, people are ready to crown him the next Jim Kelly. Then he has a bad game and everyone is ready to run him out of town.

Look, he doesn't have a lot of starts under his belt and he'll have his ups and downs. Despite his horrible performance yesterday, it's hard to blame him for this season when the D is last against the run, the highly vaunted Spiller has done nothing, our "big" FA off-season acquisition is no longer on the the team, none of our 1st round picks actually PLAY like first round picks (and at least two hardly play at all), etc.

Is Fitz the next Jim Kelly? I seriously doubt it. But is he the next Todd Collins/JP/Holcomb/Trent? I doubt that as well. I see him in the Mark Rypien/Trent Dilfer/Rich Gannon type role: He's not going to win you games on his own like Brady and Manning, but it is possible to win with him in the right circumstance.

So, what does this mean for the Bills? Well, they shouldn't pass on a QB should the right one come along, But let's consider the state of the team.

-The front 7 on D is an absolute disaster outside of Kyle Williams. Moats and Carrington are showing flashes and get a pass as rookies, but the rest of this unit is completely worthless.

-McKelvin and Florence have both struggled at times this year, and McGee can't stay healthy.

-Whitner is mediocre and Byrd has been exposed.

-While no one on our OL is horrendous, they're all pretty average and could be easily upgraded.

-While all of our WR's are decent, we still lack that one dominant player who is a true #1.

-Our TE's might be the worst in the league.

-Age is catching up with Brian Moorman

So, with the team in that state, how much of our limited resources should be devoted to gambling on a QB? We have a serviceable player. I can't say that about numerous other positions on this team.

Unfortunately, this off-season seems to be shaping up like last off season: our desperate need for a franchise QB doesn't necessarily make one available to us. The Andrew Luck pipe dream is over. So, pick your poison: gamble on a QB or stick with Fitz and pick another position of need. Neither is a very good option.

Stop overreacting to the moment and take a look at the big picture. And yes, I'm well aware of the irony of me making this statement, but that just shows you how absurd it is.



:jawdrop:


this is not funny guys. Who hacked OP's account?

[Mr. Pink]

:jawdrop:


this is not funny guys. Who hacked OP's account?


:rofl:

[justasportsfan]

judging Fitz either ways is not complete. Lets see what he's made of and see how he bounces back from a bad game

[OpIv37]

Look at the offensive style we employ. The offense is centered around the QB and passing the ball. With Gaileys style of offense we need someone better than just average to lead it.

sometimes you have to play the hand you're dealt.

It's amazing how the Pats play musical RB's/TE's/WR's, and even managed to go 11-5 with Brady injured, but one injury or lack of talent at one position dooms us to failure.

[X-Era]

Fitz had a bad game, it happens, but he's turning into a very good QB. He needs more talent around him and the defense is terrible. I agree with the OP. Gamble on a QB or stick with Fitz and build the team. A new QB just puts us starting over again. At least we have something to build around. I get a headache reading the Fitz bashing threads.We can't gamble on a QB, stick with Fitz and build the team? Where is a choice necessary? Adding a QB simply adds a potential future while still keeping our present in Fitz. Fitz is signed beyond this year.

[Mr. Pink]

We can't gamble on a QB, stick with Fitz and build the team? Where is a choice necessary? Adding a QB simply adds a potential future while still keeping our present in Fitz. Fitz is signed beyond this year.


However once you draft that QB, Fitz won't be extended again. His contract is up after next season. So if you draft someone in the top 2-3 rounds at QB, you're all but guaranteeing that Fitz won't be here in 2012. Unless he's gonna take around the same money to be a clipboard holder. I highly doubt that will occur and he'll want to test the market to see what his value is around the league and if he can get another starting job.

[Night Train]

Even if the Bills spent their 1st pick on a QB, he would sit and watch Fitz anyhow to begin the year..,so it's a moot point.

I'm far more worried about our total lack of a run D. DT followed by 2 LB's should be our focus on Draft weekend.

[OpIv37]

We can't gamble on a QB, stick with Fitz and build the team? Where is a choice necessary? Adding a QB simply adds a potential future while still keeping our present in Fitz. Fitz is signed beyond this year.

because the amount of resources it would take to gamble on a QB would prevent us from building a team. This team constantly tries to fill major holes with mid- to late- round picks and it never works. Occasionally we get guys like Kyle Williams or Steve Johnson who exceed expectations, but we never get a complete team operating like that.

[X-Era]

because the amount of resources it would take to gamble on a QB would prevent us from building a team. This team constantly tries to fill major holes with mid- to late- round picks and it never works. Occasionally we get guys like Kyle Williams or Steve Johnson who exceed expectations, but we never get a complete team operating like that.The only way that may be true is if we traded up for Luck. And even then we lose a pick which represents a player like Troup. Sorry but Troup has done little to nothing to convince me he couldn't have been easily replaced by a second tier signee or even not brought in at all. Were talking about one pick which usually seem to equate to little production in year one anyways. Or you simply draft Newton or Mallet with our existing pick.

If your arguing we can't afford to take a risk with our first rounder, its a risk no matter what so than makes no sense at all.

[OpIv37]

The only way that may be true is if we traded up for Luck. And even then we lose a pick which represents a player like Troup. Sorry but Troup has done little to nothing to convince me he couldn't have been easily replaced by a second tier signee or even not brought in at all. Were talking about one pick which usually seem to equate to little production in year one anyways. Or you simply draft Newton or Mallet with our existing pick.

If your arguing we can't afford to take a risk with our first rounder, its a risk no matter what so than makes no sense at all.

QB is a far bigger risk than other positions, especially with Mallet or Newton.

[Mr. Pink]

QB is a far bigger risk than other positions, especially with Mallet or Newton.


Is it?

Every position is a risk. Maybin, McCargo, Lynch, Whitner, Spiller, Mike Williams.

[OpIv37]

Is it?

Every position is a risk. Maybin, McCargo, Lynch, Whitner, Spiller, Mike Williams.

don't confuse risk with incompetence. With at least half of those guys, everyone and their brother knew it was a bad pick as soon as the Bills made them.

[Nighthawk]

Forked from: Does anyone still think Fitz is the answer? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=3385495)



What the hell is it with this board?

Every time Fitz has a good game, people are ready to crown him the next Jim Kelly. Then he has a bad game and everyone is ready to run him out of town.

Look, he doesn't have a lot of starts under his belt and he'll have his ups and downs. Despite his horrible performance yesterday, it's hard to blame him for this season when the D is last against the run, the highly vaunted Spiller has done nothing, our "big" FA off-season acquisition is no longer on the the team, none of our 1st round picks actually PLAY like first round picks (and at least two hardly play at all), etc.

Is Fitz the next Jim Kelly? I seriously doubt it. But is he the next Todd Collins/JP/Holcomb/Trent? I doubt that as well. I see him in the Mark Rypien/Trent Dilfer/Rich Gannon type role: He's not going to win you games on his own like Brady and Manning, but it is possible to win with him in the right circumstance.

So, what does this mean for the Bills? Well, they shouldn't pass on a QB should the right one come along, But let's consider the state of the team.

-The front 7 on D is an absolute disaster outside of Kyle Williams. Moats and Carrington are showing flashes and get a pass as rookies, but the rest of this unit is completely worthless.

-McKelvin and Florence have both struggled at times this year, and McGee can't stay healthy.

-Whitner is mediocre and Byrd has been exposed.

-While no one on our OL is horrendous, they're all pretty average and could be easily upgraded.

-While all of our WR's are decent, we still lack that one dominant player who is a true #1.

-Our TE's might be the worst in the league.

-Age is catching up with Brian Moorman

So, with the team in that state, how much of our limited resources should be devoted to gambling on a QB? We have a serviceable player. I can't say that about numerous other positions on this team.

Unfortunately, this off-season seems to be shaping up like last off season: our desperate need for a franchise QB doesn't necessarily make one available to us. The Andrew Luck pipe dream is over. So, pick your poison: gamble on a QB or stick with Fitz and pick another position of need. Neither is a very good option.

Stop overreacting to the moment and take a look at the big picture. And yes, I'm well aware of the irony of me making this statement, but that just shows you how absurd it is.

We are WAY too far from putting a dominant team around Fitz to make him a winner. Basically what you and the others supporting him are saying is that he isn't good enough to carry a team and needs an all-pro team around him to win. Guess what? That's not going to happen, so you need to continue the search for a difference maker at that position. A servicable player at the QB position is not the way to go about building a championship team. Fitz will be the QB next year, but they must draft a QB in the first two rounds to begin grooming and hopefully, finally, to be the answers to our QB problems.

[Nighthawk]

Even if the Bills spent their 1st pick on a QB, he would sit and watch Fitz anyhow to begin the year..,so it's a moot point.

I'm far more worried about our total lack of a run D. DT followed by 2 LB's should be our focus on Draft weekend.

Defenses can be had via FA and that is exactly where the Bills should be looking to fill the holes on defense.

[Mr. Pink]

don't confuse risk with incompetence. With at least half of those guys, everyone and their brother knew it was a bad pick as soon as the Bills made them.

Lynch was supposed to be really good.

Mike Williams was thought of by many as the best LT in that draft.

Spiller was supposed to be the BPA and a dynamic playmaker.

Maybin, Whitner, McCargo were reaches.

So we've reached and missed and we've gone for "sure things" and missed.

[Nighthawk]

By the way, you know how you never will find a franchise QB? By assuming that you have that position filled and ignoring it and not continuing to try to find that player every year. The Bills have been very guilty of this...the good teams continue to draft QBs in the hope of hitting on them. That is exactly what this organization needs to do...keep drafting until we finally find our franchise QB. Quitting is not an option, but by some of the posts on this board, that's exactly what many would lead you to believe the Bills should do.

[Mr. Pink]

By the way, you know how you never will find a franchise QB? By assuming that you have that position filled and ignoring it and not continuing to try to find that player every year. The Bills have been very guilty of this...the good teams continue to draft QBs in the hope of hitting on them. That is exactly what this organization needs to do...keep drafting until we finally find our franchise QB. Quitting is not an option, but by some of the posts on this board, that's exactly what many would lead you to believe the Bills should do.


And then you have franchises like the Pats. They already have their guy and every year, seemingly, they go out and draft some QB.

[ServoBillieves]

And then you have franchises like the Pats. They already have their guy and every year, seemingly, they go out and draft some QB.

Must be nice to have literal luxury picks who can just be non chalantly cast off at their pleasure.

[Mr. Pink]

Must be nice to have literal luxury picks who can just be non chalantly cast off at their pleasure.


When you get to 5th, 6th, 7th round picks, you're not drafting for needs anymore. You're picking guys who you think can make an impact of any kind at the NFL level.

Or a guy who you can trade later for more value than what you got him for.

Look at Matt Cassel. 7th round pick in 2005. Got a 2nd round pick for him from the Chiefs.

[OpIv37]

We are WAY too far from putting a dominant team around Fitz to make him a winner. Basically what you and the others supporting him are saying is that he isn't good enough to carry a team and needs an all-pro team around him to win. Guess what? That's not going to happen, so you need to continue the search for a difference maker at that position. A servicable player at the QB position is not the way to go about building a championship team. Fitz will be the QB next year, but they must draft a QB in the first two rounds to begin grooming and hopefully, finally, to be the answers to our QB problems.

well now you have a proverbial chicken or the egg problem. Put Manning or Brady on our team- they'd probably do better than Fitz, but they certainly wouldn't look like the Manning or Brady that we know.

And guess what? A difference maker isn't going to happen either. The only difference maker available is Luck and we have no shot at him.

[ServoBillieves]

We are WAY too far from putting a dominant team around Fitz to make him a winner. Basically what you and the others supporting him are saying is that he isn't good enough to carry a team and needs an all-pro team around him to win. Guess what? That's not going to happen, so you need to continue the search for a difference maker at that position. A servicable player at the QB position is not the way to go about building a championship team. Fitz will be the QB next year, but they must draft a QB in the first two rounds to begin grooming and hopefully, finally, to be the answers to our QB problems.

I've disagreed and fought with few on this board, but your posts are almost the bane of my existence recently.

No one in their right mind is hoping this team builds around Fitz. He isn't Manning, he isn't Brady, he isn't ****ing Elway. He is literally a band-aid over a gash. We can't stop the run, we can't stop the short pass, we don't know how to put someone in the damn ****ing flat to cover those dink and dunk passes that we continually give up.

We suck in the opponents red zone, we suck in our own red zone. We know how to run all over an opponent until it comes to crunch time and we need to score. We were once considered a "bend don't break" defense, now we just break when we hit the red zone.

Are you going to put Cam Newton, Ryan Mallet, Jake Locker, whoever with this team and expect a playoff appearance? No. You're not. If you do, you have the next Joe Flacco/Josh Freeman, and you're damn right I'll be happy about that.

If you are comfortable with Ryan Mallett throwing to Donald Jones, Naaman Roosevelt, Paul Hubbard, and Stevie Johnson, then that's pretty optimistic. If he's throwing behind Bell, Levitre, Wood, Rinehart, and Wrotto, even better.

Teams are running against Spencer Johnson and Akin Ayodele right now. Carrington isn't getting snaps, and if any back or QB sneaks past KW the rest of the defense is helpless.

Now PLEASE. PLEASE explain why QUARTERBACK is the BIGGEST DIFFERENCE MAKER ON THIS TEAM.

[Spiderweb]

the top QB will be long gone by the time we pick. That's part of the problem. The only way we'd get him is by giving up the few good players we have AND half our draft, which is very unwise on a team with so many holes.


.....and unless our D improves dramatically, it will be yet another long year next year.

[better days]

who says you build the team around him? You don't always have to build the team around a QB. Many teams have built around a strong D or running game.

The Bucs & Ravens are two that come to mind. Neither Johnson or Dilfer did anything before or after winning the Super Bowl with those teams.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I've disagreed and fought with few on this board, but your posts are almost the bane of my existence recently.

No one in their right mind is hoping this team builds around Fitz. He isn't Manning, he isn't Brady, he isn't ****ing Elway. He is literally a band-aid over a gash. We can't stop the run, we can't stop the short pass, we don't know how to put someone in the damn ****ing flat to cover those dink and dunk passes that we continually give up.

We suck in the opponents red zone, we suck in our own red zone. We know how to run all over an opponent until it comes to crunch time and we need to score. We were once considered a "bend don't break" defense, now we just break when we hit the red zone.

Are you going to put Cam Newton, Ryan Mallet, Jake Locker, whoever with this team and expect a playoff appearance? No. You're not. If you do, you have the next Joe Flacco/Josh Freeman, and you're damn right I'll be happy about that.

If you are comfortable with Ryan Mallett throwing to Donald Jones, Naaman Roosevelt, Paul Hubbard, and Stevie Johnson, then that's pretty optimistic. If he's throwing behind Bell, Levitre, Wood, Rinehart, and Wrotto, even better.

Teams are running against Spencer Johnson and Akin Ayodele right now. Carrington isn't getting snaps, and if any back or QB sneaks past KW the rest of the defense is helpless.

Now PLEASE. PLEASE explain why QUARTERBACK is the BIGGEST DIFFERENCE MAKER ON THIS TEAM.

sam bradford... HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????!!!!!!!!!!!

[better days]

Defenses can be had via FA and that is exactly where the Bills should be looking to fill the holes on defense.

It seems to me a FA is rarely as good on his next team as he was on the team that drafted him. You can use a FA as a missing piece as the Bucs did with Simeon Rice, but you can't build an entire defense that way.

[RockStar36]

the top QB will be long gone by the time we pick. That's part of the problem. The only way we'd get him is by giving up the few good players we have AND half our draft, which is very unwise on a team with so many holes.

Where are you coming up with this? If Luck stays in school, I don't see a early run on QBs and the Bills should be drafting pretty high, pending what they do this Sunday.

[madness]

draft defense, defense, defense. Our record would be a heck of a whole lot better if we even had at least a competent defense.

[better days]

The only way that may be true is if we traded up for Luck. And even then we lose a pick which represents a player like Troup. Sorry but Troup has done little to nothing to convince me he couldn't have been easily replaced by a second tier signee or even not brought in at all. Were talking about one pick which usually seem to equate to little production in year one anyways. Or you simply draft Newton or Mallet with our existing pick.

If your arguing we can't afford to take a risk with our first rounder, its a risk no matter what so than makes no sense at all.

Well Troup was a 2nd rnd pick, not a 1st. I think you are agreeing with OP there. The Bills could draft a difference maker on defense in the 1st. If they use that pick instead on an iffy QB their next pick will be an iffy defensive player.