How bad do you want Andrew Luck?

[DraftBoy]

There has been a lot of talk in the last 24 hours about Luck and how badly some zoners want him. This was fueled in the last 30 mins by X-Era posting a quote from Michael Lombardi stating he hears that Carolina at #1 is not looking at a QB.

So let's say they are looking to trade down. How much would you pay for Andrew Luck?

[X-Era]

There has been a lot of talk in the last 24 hours about Luck and how badly some zoners want him. This was fueled in the last 30 mins by X-Era posting a quote from Michael Lombardi stating he hears that Carolina at #1 is not looking at a QB.

So let's say they are looking to trade down. How much would you pay for Andrew Luck?I had to go trade chart only because there was no option for slightly less than trade chart value, or for a pick and player. I think either may be possible.

This should be an interesting poll.

[DraftBoy]

I had to go trade chart only because there was no option for slightly less than trade chart value, or for a pick and player. I think either may be possible.

This should be an interesting poll.

I didnt allow for those because the player option carries too many variables and nobody in their right mind would accept less than trade chart value.

[Dr. Lecter]

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

Here is a link to the chart for the Google impaired.

[RockStar36]

I wouldn't 'Ricky Williams' the draft for him, but almost anything else is fair game.

Thanks to Lecter for posting that chart. I have to say trade chart value because that is more than fair to Carolina, especially if they aren't looking at him anyways. Whoever they'd want besides him will most likely be there at 3.

[X-Era]

I didnt allow for those because the player option carries too many variables and nobody in their right mind would accept less than trade chart value.Ok.

BTW, wasn't the chart revised a few years back to lessen the value of the top picks? For some reason it seems unchanged everywhere I looked.

[DraftBoy]

I wouldn't 'Ricky Williams' the draft for him, but almost anything else is fair game.

Thanks to Lecter for posting that chart. I have to say trade chart value because that is more than fair to Carolina, especially if they aren't looking at him anyways. Whoever they'd want besides him will most likely be there at 3.

Who cares if they want him or not? Based on some reports this kid is the best prospect since Manning.

If you're Carolina you're only going to take value for him?

[Bangarang]

Maybin for their 1st straight up. We're getting robbed on this one but it'd be worth it in the long run.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'd be willing to give up a lot for this kid.

[Dr. Lecter]

I would go over the chart - one or two picks - because Luck is special (and not justa "special")

[ZAZusmc03]

I'd give them slightly more than chart value. The kid is freaking good and I would love to see him as a bill. But I also don't want to put too much of a dent in the rebuilding process.

[X-Era]

I would go over the chart - one or two picks - because Luck is special (and not justa "special")I'd prefer to push one of the picks required for the trade off until 2012... we all know the world will end then anyways.

[SquishDaFish]

Id go over by 1 pick. Do almost whatever it would take without a Rickey Williams situation or next years #1

[X-Era]

I'd give them slightly more than chart value. The kid is freaking good and I would love to see him as a bill. But I also don't want to put too much of a dent in the rebuilding process.Nor do I. I simply see other avenues like a few more free agents than usual.

[YardRat]

Let the bidding war begin, and IMO the price will be driven too high.

Pass.

[Nighthawk]

I would go over the chart - one or two picks - because Luck is special (and not justa "special")

The Bills NEED this kid and they need a new, up and coming face for this organization.

[Nighthawk]

Let the bidding war begin, and IMO the price will be driven too high.

Pass.

I'm sorry, but you're not thinking clearly. Let's put it this way...if you had a chance to trade for the 1st pick in the 1998 draft to get Manning, would you? Well, I'm sure I can guess your answer and this kid is being compared to him and his talent level.

[DraftBoy]

I'm sorry, but you're not thinking clearly. Let's put it this way...if you had a chance to trade for the 1st pick in the 1998 draft to get Manning, would you? Well, I'm sure I can guess your answer and this kid is being compared to him and his talent level.

You havent voted yet, what are you willing to do?

[X-Era]

So far the vast majority is in favor of trading up and paying at least what the value chart dictates.

[ZAZusmc03]

Nor do I. I simply see other avenues like a few more free agents than usual.

I agree completely. If we give up several picks from this years draft, then we hit fa hard for d help.

[Nighthawk]

You havent voted yet, what are you willing to do?

I'd pay above the value, but not next years 1st.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would pay 1000 dollars

[NOT THE DUDE...]

http://www.drafthistory.com/articles/article23.html

cost analysis of ricky williams/ditka trade...

[Saratoga Slim]

I voted "one pick above chart value." Which I assume means that we give them #3, #35, and something else.

as far as the "something else," if he truly grades out in the Peyton range, then I'd be open to giving up another high pick (3rd or 4th this year, OR a 2nd or 3rd next).

Three picks...I don't think there's another three non-QB rookies in rounds 2-4 that bring the same value as one true franchise QB. This is a totally QB-driven league now. You can be comptetive without one, but the teams that consistently win playoff games have a stud QB.

I don't really know enough to know whether or not Luck is as good as some people seem to think he is, I'm just basing the above on DraftBoy's comment that some pundits are comparing him to Manning as a prospect. Give the Colts Fitzy instead of Peyton, and they're 6-10 this year.

If Luck is that good, then we should bargain aggressively. A franchise QB changes the whole feel of this football organization.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

id be willing to give up our 1st obviously, 2nd, 3rd and 4th and next years 1st...

or same as above except instead of next years 1st, kyle williams...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

we would still have the 2nd half of the draft, and a franchise qb. our d would take a slight step back but it really doesnt matter if you have a tom brady qb...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

we could bring in some nice d players in fa, our rt would be a fa too.... im guessing we would be bringing in a few more rfa.

[better days]

I seriously doubt that Luck will ever be as good as Payton Manning. Eli? Maybe.

[Prov401]

id be willing to give up our 1st obviously, 2nd, 3rd and 4th and next years 1st...

or same as above except instead of next years 1st, kyle williams...

I'm happy your not our GM.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I'm happy your not our GM.

so whos your franchise qb?

95% chance without one you dont win...............

[NOT THE DUDE...]

keep in mind buffalo actually has some leverage too because obviously if carolina is willing to trade the pick then they dont want luck, so he could still be there regardless at 3...

[elltrain22]

Very, very bad. Having said that zero chance Carolina passes up any opportunity to draft that kid. No matter what I read or see, I just can't see them passing up on Luck.

[Bill Cody]

I wouldn't go any higher than any 5 players on the roster, this years entire draft and next years entire draft. I'm firm on this.

[better days]

keep in mind buffalo actually has some leverage too because obviously if carolina is willing to trade the pick then they dont want luck, so he could still be there regardless at 3...

If Carolina is willing to trade the pick rather than draft Luck, then they obviously do not think as much of him as many on this board. Some team will likely want to trade up for him though because there are MANY teams that need a QB & some much more than the Bills do.

[Bill Cody]

One benefit of giving away 2 entire drafts is it'll be 2 years before we have to say "WHY THE **** DID YOU TAKE HIM" 7 times.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

I would pay 1000 dollars

I'll pay $2000

[NOT THE DUDE...]

If Carolina is willing to trade the pick rather than draft Luck, then they obviously do not think as much of him as many on this board. Some team will likely want to trade up for him though because there are MANY teams that need a QB & some much more than the Bills do.

but its possible carolina doesnt even trade the pick because they love someone else....

[X-Era]

If Carolina is willing to trade the pick rather than draft Luck, then they obviously do not think as much of him as many on this board. Some team will likely want to trade up for him though because there are MANY teams that need a QB & some much more than the Bills do.How do you come to this conclusion? Maybe they do think he is a stud but that they would rather look at another position. Could be very similar to us skipping Peterson at 3 if he's there. If say Bowers and Peterson were both there, and we took Bowers, it isn't necessarily because we didn't think Peterson is a stud. To me in fact Peterson is a higher ranked player.

It's not just about the value of the player. Its also about how the player fits into what they plan to do and what their needs are. Its everything.

[Mahdi]

I'm not willing to trade up for Luck unless it involves giving up some roster players and less draft picks.

This team needs it's picks. We have Whitner, McCargo, Maybin, Losman all first rounders who have not provided any return.

That means we need our picks to build the team.

Stay put and draft Newton or Peterson.

[X-Era]

but its possible carolina doesnt even trade the pick because they love someone else....The Mario Williams move.

[Bill Cody]

This team needs it's picks. We have Whitner, McCargo, Maybin, Losman all first rounders who have not provided any return.

That means we need our picks to build the team.

Stay put and draft Newton or Peterson.

That list shows you why we DON'T need our picks. Luck is money in the bank imo. Some random 2nd or 3rd rounder in our brain trusts hands? Not so much.

[X-Era]

That list shows you why we DON'T need our picks. Luck is money in the bank imo. Some random 2nd or 3rd rounder in our brain trusts hands? Not so much.Any 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder could be a star, I conceed that. But this team could easily replace what they would seem to lose in that first year with a second tier free agent. It's the years following that when you assume the draftee exceeds the ability of a second tier free agent that would be the loss.

[Prov401]

I'm not willing to trade up for Luck unless it involves giving up some roster players and less draft picks.

This team needs it's picks. We have Whitner, McCargo, Maybin, Losman all first rounders who have not provided any return.

That means we need our picks to build the team.

Stay put and draft Newton or Peterson.

Couldn't agree more.

Peterson can single handedly change the way an offense operates, and Newton is going to give DC's plenty of headaches.

Buffalo isn't a franchise QB away from being in the Superbowl. We are about 10 really good players away from being a contender. And you don't get there by trading a ton of picks for 1 guy.

[Bill Cody]

Any 2nd rounder or 3rd rounder could be a star, I conceed that. But this team could easily replace what they would seem to lose in that first year with a second tier free agent. It's the years following that when you assume the draftee exceeds the ability of a second tier free agent that would be the loss.

True. And with all due respect to Buddy Nix who has not been the one burning draft picks like they were tiki torches for the past decade at 1 Bills Dr, exactly when did draft picks become so valuable TO US? Exactly what have the Bills done in recent memory to get anyone to think handing over a few extra picks is handing over the ****ing keys to the city?

C'mon guys look at the assortment of flotsam and jetsam we've paraded into Buffalo every April for the past decade and yet you guys seem to think we'd be handing over 3 guys ticketed for Canton. Not ****ing likely.

[Bill Cody]

Couldn't agree more.

Peterson can single handedly change the way an offense operates, and Newton is going to give DC's plenty of headaches.

Buffalo isn't a franchise QB away from being in the Superbowl. We are about 10 really good players away from being a contender. And you don't get there by trading a ton of picks for 1 guy.

You do if it's the right guy. Like say.....a Peyton Manning.

You don't if it's a Mike Williams. You don't if it's a Donte Whitner. You don't if it's a Aaron Maybin. You don't if it's a John McCargo. You don't if it's JP Lossman. Need I go on?

[Thief]

You do if it's the right guy. Like say.....a Peyton Manning.

You don't if it's a Mike Williams. You don't if it's a Donte Whitner. You don't if it's a Aaron Maybin. You don't if it's a John McCargo. You don't if it's JP Lossman. Need I go on?Yes, please go on. You haven't told us how to guarantee someone will be Payton Manning prior to us drafting him.

[better days]

How do you come to this conclusion? Maybe they do think he is a stud but that they would rather look at another position. Could be very similar to us skipping Peterson at 3 if he's there. If say Bowers and Peterson were both there, and we took Bowers, it isn't necessarily because we didn't think Peterson is a stud. To me in fact Peterson is a higher ranked player.

It's not just about the value of the player. Its also about how the player fits into what they plan to do and what their needs are. Its everything.

QB is the MOST IMPORTANT position in football period. You do not pass on the next Payton Manning for ANYTHING. If they think he is the next Manning as some on this board, then the have to draft him as soon as their name is called that they are on the clock.

Aside from the fact QB is the most important position, it is also the most glaring weakness on that team & I don't want to hear anymore about Clausen. He is TERRIBLE, thank God the Bills did not draft him.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

would anyone on this board be willing to give up what chicago gave up for cutler?

[Night Train]

Luck is the new shiny toy that is way better looking than it really is.

[ServoBillieves]

I'd give up my Klondike Bar for him.

[hydro]

Luck is the new shiny toy that is way better looking than it really is.
Not sure where you are drawing this conclusion but from watching this kid play it just doesn't make sense that he would be a bust in the NFL. Too many positives compared to very few negatives.

[don137]

I have never seen a player hyped up so much. I would give up anything to get him. May add a year to the rebuilding process but in 2-3 years it would be worth it. Plus Luck would increase the chances of signing free agents. However trading for Luck is a dream IMO. No way Carolina trades a player with that much potential especially after everything that is being stated about him by Panther fans.

[Bill Cody]

Yes, please go on. You haven't told us how to guarantee someone will be Payton Manning prior to us drafting him.

We haven't been to the playoffs for over a decade and you need guarantees to approve of the Bills not sticking their thumbs up their asses like we do every year? Really?

[Bill Cody]

Luck is the new shiny toy that is way better looking than it really is.

ok. And exactly how shiny is Fitz?

[Night Train]

Not sure where you are drawing this conclusion but from watching this kid play it just doesn't make sense that he would be a bust in the NFL. Too many positives compared to very few negatives.

Bills need every pick and maybe more to fill out the multiple holes on this roster.

Trading some away to target 1 player, as many are suggesting, is beyond stupid and would continue our commitment to mediocrity.

[hydro]

Bills need every pick and maybe more to fill out the multiple holes on this roster.

Trading some away to target 1 player, as many are suggesting, is beyond stupid and would continue our commitment to mediocrity.

We say this every season:

"Bills need every pick and maybe more to fill out the multiple holes on this roster."

Yet we never do. So how about we get a player that is about as legit as anyone has ever seen come from the college ranks?

[Bill Cody]

Bills need every pick and maybe more to fill out the multiple holes on this roster.

Trading some away to target 1 player, as many are suggesting, is beyond stupid and would continue our commitment to mediocrity.

This is beyond ridiculous sorry. The Patriots gave up a 1st, a 3rd and a 2nd to get Bill Bellichick to the Jets. How'd that work out for the two teams? If the Pats had Ryan Fitzpatrick instead of Brady for the last decade how many Lombardi's do you think they'd have? I'd say roughly in the neighborhood of...zero. No. WE NEED A FRANCHISE QB. If it costs us an extra year so be it.

[Mad Max]

When it comes to Superstar trades it's been proven time and time again that the the acquirer of the Superstar gets the better end of the deal no matter how much they pay. It's usually so one sided it's not even close.

So, ya I'd give up 7 shots in the dark for one bright light in Luck.

Besides we furk up drafts routinely only to find pro bowl Left Tackles and starting caliber Running backs as UDFA. So what exactly would we be losing by giving up those picks?

[TacklingDummy]

G: Don't want him at all. He'll be a bust, you heard it here first.

[Mad Max]

Luck is the new shiny toy that is way better looking than it really is.

Actually he looks like a paler version of Shrek.

http://www.wildsound-filmmaking-feedback-events.com/images/shrek_face.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2010/1210/dm_101210_ncf_andrew_luck.jpg

But he plays much better than he looks.

[Saratoga Slim]

We are about 10 really good players away from being a contender. And you don't get there by trading a ton of picks for 1 guy.

I'm not sure we're a full 10 players from being a contender. But assuming that's the case, the math changes if you add a top-10 QB. Guys like Manning, Brady, Brees etc. change the equation. They don't need as much time in the pocket, can create time if they need it by avoiding the rush, and make decent receivers look great with accuracy. They make good reads, and turn the ball over less.

Look at the gypsies Philip Rivers has been throwing to this year. Look at the gypsies Brady always has to throw to. You put a top-5 QB on our offense, and we're a totally different team.

I'm not in favor of giving away our whole draft. But if Luck has the tools to be an elite NFL QB, I would not fault the front office for using a few picks to get him.

[YardRat]

Trading away picks to get a QB or move up in the draft is one of the major factors that led us to where we are today.

Rinse, repeat, fail.
Rinse, repeat, fail.

If this team gives up too much to jump two spots to grab one guy the odds are heavily in favor of another five seasons of epic fail, until Luck bolts to another team.

Andrew Luck will never play a game in Ralph Wilson Stadium wearing a Bills uniform. Book it.

[X-Era]

Trading away picks to get a QB or move up in the draft is one of the major factors that led us to where we are today.

Rinse, repeat, fail.
Rinse, repeat, fail.

If this team gives up too much to jump two spots to grab one guy the odds are heavily in favor of another five seasons of epic fail, until Luck bolts to another team.

Andrew Luck will never play a game in Ralph Wilson Stadium wearing a Bills uniform. Book it.Trading up for a QB who was not a sure-fire franchise QB is one of the factors that led us to where we are today. We moved up just to get one.

Moving up for Luck would be a wise decision IMO, if the price is not too steep, and could provide this team with the answer at QB that they have not had since Kelly. That's not something we will likely have a shot at again for many, many years to come, and it isn't even right within our reach now.

It would require a good deal to do it, but a team that truly recognizes what Fitz is and isn't and what it will likely take from the QB position will see the value. Nix and Gailey were brought in to build a winner, as football minded guys, and they claim it's going to come through the draft. Well, this is a chance to show what you're worth. It's just too critical of a position to ignore anymore, and it's just too important to get one this year if this regime wants to build a future. It's got to be addressed this year, Luck is the best you can get, and the move makes sense in that regard.

But as Ive said, other prospects could also provide us with what we need.

[better days]

When it comes to Superstar trades it's been proven time and time again that the the acquirer of the Superstar gets the better end of the deal no matter how much they pay. It's usually so one sided it's not even close.

So, ya I'd give up 7 shots in the dark for one bright light in Luck.

Besides we furk up drafts routinely only to find pro bowl Left Tackles and starting caliber Running backs as UDFA. So what exactly would we be losing by giving up those picks?

Except Luck is no Superstar at least not yet. So far he is just another highly touted prospect.

[X-Era]

Except Luck is no Superstar at least not yet. So far he is just another highly touted prospect.Your making it black and white. The draft is about rankings and Luck ranks up with there with Peyton Manning rank when he was coming out rank wise.

[Mad Max]

Except Luck is no Superstar at least not yet. So far he is just another highly touted prospect.

By the time you wait to find out for certain, guess what? It's too late.

No guts no glory.

[Nighthawk]

The people who say they wouldn't trade draft picks because it will hurt the Bills are laughable. Ummm, these are the same people who ***** and complain that the Bills can't draft the right people with their picks, but they are totally against moving up for one of the most sure fire Franchise QBs to come out in years?!?!?

Funny sh^t!

[BillsFever21]

You guys need to get over it. Luck will not be coming back to Buffalo. If the general census was that he was the next Peyton Manning or one of the best can't miss prospects in the past ten years there is no way in hell Carolina would not draft him and trade away the pick. I don't care if they drafted a couple QB's last year or not. It's not like Clausen is going to be a gamechanger.

[Nighthawk]

You guys need to get over it. Luck will not be coming back to Buffalo. If the general census was that he was the next Peyton Manning or one of the best can't miss prospects in the past ten years there is no way in hell Carolina would not draft him and trade away the pick. I don't care if they drafted a couple QB's last year or not. It's not like Clausen is going to be a gamechanger.

Nobody said he's coming...but there was a question asked, so people are responding.

[YardRat]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/events/1998/nfldraft/topplayers/3.html

Leaf appears to be the hot QB in this draft, and he led WSU to a storybook season...He is a physically imposing QB with great size and strength....he is very sturdy and durable in the pocket, and is a surprisingly good athlete for his size...He has a strong arm and shows good touch, and can change up the speed on his passes...He has good feet, but is not really a scrambler. However, he can stand in and take the big hits....He is a very naturally gifted player, but could improve on his throwing mechanics, although it is not a major problem....There are no physical or athletic limitations to hold Leaf back from becoming a great NFL QB. However, there appears to be some minor nagging questions in the area of maturity and his mental approach to the game. He is perceived as not always an easy guy to work with, and he tends to beat to his own drummer...As good as he is, he can have some streaks on the field where he looks like he has forgotten everything he has been taught...There seems to be a nagging question here that something might be missing, but it may be hard to verbalize it...However, Leaf made all the right moves at the end of his season when he declared for the NFL draft...Unless he turns some teams off in individual interviews between now and the draft, he should have no problems....Nobody will question his physical abilities, and it is not outlandish to think that he could be the first pick of the draft, instead of Peyton Manning....There is a huge upside with Leaf, and it is conceivable that he could be one of the best young QB’s in the game in 2-3 years...His ability to play as physical as he does and take the hits that will obviously come, when playing for a team that obviously doesn’t have a very good OL, will help him get over the tough times as a team builds around him.

[Dr. Lecter]

Luck and Leaf are nothing alike.

[YardRat]

Luck and Leaf are nothing alike.

I have to agree with you to a certain point, but only time will tell.

Can anybody guarantee that Luck in the pros will compare more favorably to Manning rather than Leaf?

[BillsWin]

Trade chart.

[Akhippo]

I would trade wins against Detroit, Cincy, Cleveland, and Miami. Wait, that is even more blasphamous.

Then I would Swap firsts, give up our 2nd and 4th plus a player. Either Fitz, Kyle, or Lee.

Carolina first off is not going to outright say they arent taking Luck. No matter what. They will not give up leverage. To get players and picks for a guy you dont want anyway is brilliant.

Carolina has way more holes than anyone. They have no second rounder. They have two first years at QB. Clausen and Pike. They could take anyone of the other promising QBs at #3. Add to that say Evans and a few picks, and that would be a very hard package to pass up if I was Carolina.

[Akhippo]

Leaf was a decent QB. He was just f'd in the head. All mental. There were signs of that. Luck seems to be grounded. All of this from MPOV. To me Luck reminds me of Kelly. Right now with a touch less swagger.

[better days]

I would trade wins against Detroit, Cincy, Cleveland, and Miami. Wait, that is even more blasphamous.

Then I would Swap firsts, give up our 2nd and 4th plus a player. Either Fitz, Kyle, or Lee.

Carolina first off is not going to outright say they arent taking Luck. No matter what. They will not give up leverage. To get players and picks for a guy you dont want anyway is brilliant.

Carolina has way more holes than anyone. They have no second rounder. They have two first years at QB. Clausen and Pike. They could take anyone of the other promising QBs at #3. Add to that say Evans and a few picks, and that would be a very hard package to pass up if I was Carolina.

It would be very easy to pass up if Carolina is in love with Luck as many on this board are. I am a Bucs fan & am very familiar with that team having watched at least 2 of their games a year for a long time now.

They do not have that many holes as you suggest. QB is by far the biggest & just because they wasted picks on Clausen & Pike is no reason not to draft a great QB if they consider Luck to be great.

[YardRat]

If I'm Carolina, I'm laying out all the hints I can regarding taking Luck, and then ass-raping the team that bends over the farthest.

[better days]

Leaf was a decent QB. He was just f'd in the head. All mental. There were signs of that. Luck seems to be grounded. All of this from MPOV. To me Luck reminds me of Kelly. Right now with a touch less swagger.

From what I have seen, Luck reminds me more of Chad Pennington than Jim Kelly. A smart guy with a so so arm.

[X-Era]

If I'm Carolina, I'm laying out all the hints I can regarding taking Luck, and then ass-raping the team that bends over the farthest.We've been taking it in the ass for years, what's one more.

[X-Era]

From what I have seen, Luck reminds me more of Chad Pennington than Jim Kelly. A smart guy with a so so arm.I don't know that I can disagree any stronger on this take.

[better days]

I don't know that I can disagree any stronger on this take.

So you are calling Luck stupid?

[Akhippo]

It would be very easy to pass up if Carolina is in love with Luck as many on this board are. I am a Bucs fan & am very familiar with that team having watched at least 2 of their games a year for a long time now.

They do not have that many holes as you suggest. QB is by far the biggest & just because they wasted picks on Clausen & Pike is no reason not to draft a great QB if they consider Luck to be great.

Everybody has a price. There is also more ways to skin a cat as the saying goes. They could easily go the Buffalo route and stick with a midlevel QB and build the rest of the team. I dont doubt that they could take Luck and move on. However, to say they wouldnt take any offer is also wrong.

I want Luck no matter what. But if i was the GM for Carolina, i would consider my offer.

I could sell my fanbase Cam Newton with our 3rd, two additional players, and Lee Evans to add to a depleted WR corps.

[Mr. Pink]

The people who say they wouldn't trade draft picks because it will hurt the Bills are laughable. Ummm, these are the same people who ***** and complain that the Bills can't draft the right people with their picks, but they are totally against moving up for one of the most sure fire Franchise QBs to come out in years?!?!?

Funny sh^t!


It's kind of laughable the people who take that stance.

Last year we drafted Troup and Carrington in those spots.

Would this team suck any less without guys like that?

[Akhippo]

From what I have seen, Luck reminds me more of Chad Pennington than Jim Kelly. A smart guy with a so so arm.

Really? I dont remember Jim having a Cutler or Rogers arm by any means. But he could make all the throws. Luck makes them all just as easily. We are reaching.

[Mr. Pink]

Everybody has a price. There is also more ways to skin a cat as the saying goes. They could easily go the Buffalo route and stick with a midlevel QB and build the rest of the team. I dont doubt that they could take Luck and move on. However, to say they wouldnt take any offer is also wrong.

I want Luck no matter what. But if i was the GM for Carolina, i would consider my offer.

I could sell my fanbase Cam Newton with our 3rd, two additional players, and Lee Evans to add to a depleted WR corps.


You trade up for Luck and make one kind of splashy FA signings during the year and I guarantee there are no blackouts in 2011.

If there is football to be played that is.

[better days]

Everybody has a price. There is also more ways to skin a cat as the saying goes. They could easily go the Buffalo route and stick with a midlevel QB and build the rest of the team. I dont doubt that they could take Luck and move on. However, to say they wouldnt take any offer is also wrong.

I want Luck no matter what. But if i was the GM for Carolina, i would consider my offer.

I could sell my fanbase Cam Newton with our 3rd, two additional players, and Lee Evans to add to a depleted WR corps.

I am saying if they love the guy as much as you do why would they give him up for anything? They don't. No matter how much is offered. I am not saying they are are that high on him & they may be willing to trade, time will tell.

[YardRat]

It's kind of laughable the people who take that stance.

Last year we drafted Troup and Carrington in those spots.

Would this team suck any less without guys like that?

Come back in two seasons, and we'll see.

[Mr. Pink]

I am saying if they love the guy as much as you do why would they give him up for anything? They don't. No matter how much is offered. I am not saying they are are that high on him & they may be willing to trade, time will tell.


I think anyone can be bought if the deal is right.

Now that deal may be 3 to 4 picks over the trade value chart but the Panthers are a team, like the Bills, who need a lot of pieces.

[Mr. Pink]

Come back in two seasons, and we'll see.


Carrington now is basically a situational player as a 3-4 DE, we've already announced we're playing a hybrid defense...wasted pick imo

Troup is also a situational player now as well...another wasted pick imo. On top of the fact he likely doesn't push Kyle Williams out of the spot for more than 10 snaps a game.

Situational players aren't something you should be doing in the top rounds of the draft when you're a team who doesn't have strong every down players throughout the roster.

I'm sure some will disagree with me on that analysis though.

[X-Era]

I think anyone can be bought if the deal is right.

Now that deal may be 3 to 4 picks over the trade value chart but the Panthers are a team, like the Bills, who need a lot of pieces.Luck could be the type of player that turns this franchise around. It may not be solely him, but his could end up being the pivot point. And nothing says we can't use whats left on defense and a RT... add in some free agents and you have just as good an off-season as if you kept all your picks, and IMO much much better.

[Akhippo]

I am saying if they love the guy as much as you do why would they give him up for anything? They don't. No matter how much is offered. I am not saying they are are that high on him & they may be willing to trade, time will tell.

As I said about wanting Luck, I really want him, but I would just as easily keep out first, pick Gabbert in the second (hopefully) and move on. Carolina could do the same.

I think the whole moral is; the Bills should put in an offer. If it flies good, if not they move on.

[better days]

Really? I dont remember Jim having a Cutler or Rogers arm by any means. But he could make all the throws. Luck makes them all just as easily. We are reaching.

Kelly had a very good arm. He was able to throw long with good accuracy. How can you dispute that? I think Rodgers is as good at that, but Kelly was much more accurate than Cutler.

Well watching the game the other night, I did not see Luck even attempt all the throws. Not even once.

A good Coach knows a players strengths & weaknesses. I think Harbaugh knows Luck can not make those throws & therefore had a Trent Edwards type game plan for him. Quick short & intermediate throws.

He will have to prove he can make those throws before the draft. If he does not have the arm to throw a long down & out it will hurt him in the NFL.

[Mike]

Carrington now is basically a situational player as a 3-4 DE, we've already announced we're playing a hybrid defense...wasted pick imo

Troup is also a situational player now as well...another wasted pick imo. On top of the fact he likely doesn't push Kyle Williams out of the spot for more than 10 snaps a game.

Situational players aren't something you should be doing in the top rounds of the draft when you're a team who doesn't have strong every down players throughout the roster.

I'm sure some will disagree with me on that analysis though.

Spiller looks like a situational player as well...
I would give up the entire 2010 Draft -last years-for Luck
WOULD YOU?
& Please refrain from the Potential Argument. Sure its possible that -for example- Spiller becomes a great back who runs all over the record books, but from what we have seen chances are he won't. Based solely on what I have seen this year from both Luck and our 2010 Draft, I would Trade all of 2010 for Luck. The next question is, seeing how we drafted last year, would your trade all of 2011 for Luck?

[better days]

I think anyone can be bought if the deal is right.

Now that deal may be 3 to 4 picks over the trade value chart but the Panthers are a team, like the Bills, who need a lot of pieces.

If they are not in love with him I agree, the deal can be made even if it requires overpaying. If they do love him however no amount will pry him loose, just as nobody could pry Manning loose from Indy or Brady from the Pats* for all these years.

I also dispute Carolina needs as many players as the Bills. They need someone to replace Peppers, they could also use a good WR but their biggest need is a QB & it has been that way for a number of years now.

[X-Era]

If they are not in love with him I agree, the deal can be made even if it requires overpaying. If they do love him however no amount will pry him loose, just as nobody could pry Manning loose from Indy or Brady from the Pats* for all these years.

I also dispute Carolina needs as many players as the Bills. They need someone to replace Peppers, they could also use a good WR but their biggest need is a QB & it has been that way for a number of years now.AJ Green or Bowers can't potentially fit their needs? Fairley?

[better days]

AJ Green or Bowers can't potentially fit their needs? Fairley?

Yes if they had a QB which they don't as of now. Carolina would have won the NFC South at least once in the last 4 years if they had a QB but when Delhomme lost it, they went down the tubes.

[X-Era]

Yes if they had a QB which they don't as of now. Carolina would have won the NFC South at least once in the last 4 years if they had a QB but when Delhomme lost it, they went down the tubes.I don't think we can base Clausen on one year being thrust into the starting lineup mid season as a rookie. Nor do I think Carolina will.

[imbondz]

after watching him yesterday i'm a fan.

[Mr. Pink]

If they are not in love with him I agree, the deal can be made even if it requires overpaying. If they do love him however no amount will pry him loose, just as nobody could pry Manning loose from Indy or Brady from the Pats* for all these years.

I also dispute Carolina needs as many players as the Bills. They need someone to replace Peppers, they could also use a good WR but their biggest need is a QB & it has been that way for a number of years now.


There's a difference between getting a guy who has shown he can compete and compete at a high level in this league over a guy who has a lot of potential.

Moving down 2 slots and picking up 2-4 extra picks could be very enticing to a team who has a lot of holes when they know they can still get a stud player and pick up extra picks to get more good players.

[better days]

I don't think we can base Clausen on one year being thrust into the starting lineup mid season as a rookie. Nor do I think Carolina will.

Well long term, I think he will be lucky if he gets a back up job myself. Time will tell. I would not be surprised to see him out of the league in another 3 years.

[Mr. Pink]

Spiller looks like a situational player as well...
I would give up the entire 2010 Draft -last years-for Luck
WOULD YOU?
& Please refrain from the Potential Argument. Sure its possible that -for example- Spiller becomes a great back who runs all over the record books, but from what we have seen chances are he won't. Based solely on what I have seen this year from both Luck and our 2010 Draft, I would Trade all of 2010 for Luck. The next question is, seeing how we drafted last year, would your trade all of 2011 for Luck?


Honestly, with who we ended up taking, I would have no issue if we traded our entire 2010 draft to select Bradford.

I feel that draft is on par with many of our drafts the past 12 years.

Unfortunately.

[better days]

There's a difference between getting a guy who has shown he can compete and compete at a high level in this league over a guy who has a lot of potential.

Moving down 2 slots and picking up 2-4 extra picks could be very enticing to a team who has a lot of holes when they know they can still get a stud player and pick up extra picks to get more good players.

What I don't understand is people that WANT Luck think Carolina would be enticed to trade down when their argument for the trade is that Luck is better than having those extra picks. Why do they not think Carolina thinks that also?

Again I dispute that Carolina has a lot of holes. They have a few holes with QB being by far the biggest.

[X-Era]

What I don't understand is people that WANT Luck think Carolina would be enticed to trade down when their argument for the trade is that Luck is better than having those extra picks. Why do they not think Carolina thinks that also?

Again I dispute that Carolina has a lot of holes. They have a few holes with QB being by far the biggest.Because we have a semi-solid vet to start while we develop a young guy, they don't. Why would they go with 3 guys with less than 1 year in the league amongst all of them? I think it would be more likely for them to get a vet and give Clausen a bit more time to develop. Especially if they could get a guy like McNabb.

They have developmental prospects at QB, we don't.

OK, they add Luck, they now have 3 unproven QB's and did nothing for any other need with that pick when very good prospects were there.

I'd like to hear where you think they are solid.

[Bert102176]

our 1, 3,6 this year and 2nd next year

[Mr. Pink]

Because we have a semi-solid vet to start while we develop a young guy, they don't. Why would they go with 3 guys with less than 1 year in the league amongst all of them? I think it would be more likely for them to get a vet and give Clausen a bit more time to develop. Especially if they could get a guy like McNabb.

They have developmental prospects at QB, we don't.

OK, they add Luck, they now have 3 unproven QB's and did nothing for any other need with that pick when very good prospects were there.

I'd like to hear where you think they are solid.


Agreed.

In Carolina, Luck would be thrown to the wolves with nobody to learn from. Carolina would have to scramble to bring in some veteran to provide leadership and mental prowess, now that someone could be a guy like Ken Dorsey, Jeff Garcia, Mark Brunell, but still it's scrambling to find a guy who won't be playing many games.

Here he at least has someone to sit on the bench, and that could be all year if need be, to learn from before going out there to take some lumps.

Carolina has pretty solid WRs and RBs as well as a very solid MLB.

[better days]

Because we have a semi-solid vet to start while we develop a young guy, they don't. Why would they go with 3 guys with less than 1 year in the league amongst all of them? I think it would be more likely for them to get a vet and give Clausen a bit more time to develop. Especially if they could get a guy like McNabb.

They have developmental prospects at QB, we don't.

OK, they add Luck, they now have 3 unproven QB's and did nothing for any other need with that pick when very good prospects were there.

I'd like to hear where you think they are solid.

I would like to hear about all their holes from you. They are solid at LB & DB. Their O-line is not bad. The QB makes is look worse than it really is. They have good RB's. Again a good QB will make them look better because this year opposing teams played the run 1st, daring the QB to beat them with his arm which he couldn't.

As you said they could get a Vet QB to play while Luck learns but if they think Luck will be a GREAT QB, why not just trade Clausen for a bag of used footballs?

As I said the Bills need those picks much more than Carolina does. The Bills have far more holes to fill, yet you and others think Luck would be better than filling those holes with those picks. Why do you think Carolina does not agree with you?

[DraftBoy]

Just realized I forgot to vote. Voted for trade chart value only.

[Novacane]

I'd give up chart value + next years first. We've pissed away so many first round picks. Whats one more. Especially if Luck turns out to be as good as we think he will.

[BillsFever21]

Nobody said he's coming...but there was a question asked, so people are responding.
If there is no chance of him coming here then then people need to get over it and look towards realistic stuff. There are multiple threads everyday by people about getting Andrew Luck. It is a pipedream. If it's unattainable then why keep harping on it? We should be looking at players we actually can get instead of a fantasy dream player.

If he is supposed to be this good then there is no way that Carolina passes on him. They have a new coach coming in that will want his own player to build around. Drafting Clausen and a meaningless 6th round QB in last year's draft will not factor in their decision one bit if Luck is as sought after by NFL teams as he is on this board.

Clausen was only a 2nd round pick so they do not have a lot of money invested in him and the other QB was only a 6th round draft pick or something like that. Some think they may pass on Luck just because they drafted a couple QB's last year.

We might as well not factor in the 6th round QB one bit. It's a low draft pick and he doesn't make hardly anything at all by NFL standards. As far as Clausen goes there isn't a lot of guaranteed money wrapped up in him and a new regime isn't going to care that they spent a 2nd round pick on him. Also they would have an opportunity to trade him to recoup something back in return. They wouldn't get a 2nd round pick for him but they could get something back in return for him.

I could see if they drafted a QB high in the 1st round last year and had a bunch of guaranteed money invested in them then they may think twice about spending another high draft pick on another QB along with the 30 million more guaranteed money. There isn't much guaranteed money invested in middle second round draft pick though.

If the NFL feels that Luck is a once in a decade type talent like many around here feel then there is no way Carolina passes on him. If for some reason they did then they would want a kings ransom for him and there are many teams that would be willing to cough up tons of draft picks which would drive the price even higher. I'm sure Carolina may even want a good young player in the package too which we are not very stacked with to begin with.

[better days]

All I can say is the people that want to trade for Luck must love Madden. This is the real world. No team will trade a potential HOF QB which is what many are implying he will be for a few draft picks. Especially when they need a QB as badly as Carolina does.

[Akhippo]

Who is talking madden. Its people with that attitude that never, NEVER, get anything because they have a defeatist attitute before they even begin. Who is stopping anybody from making an offer... hence the thread.

I guarantee there is a price that would pry that pick away from Carolina. Our regard for Luck as fans might be way off from Carolinas FO. Who knows, but to dismiss it as impossible is what keeps Buffalo from winning. Who thought NE could get Moss for what they did. Madden at work I guess.

[better days]

Who is talking madden. Its people with that attitude that never, NEVER, get anything because they have a defeatist attitute before they even begin. Who is stopping anybody from making an offer... hence the thread.

I guarantee there is a price that would pry that pick away from Carolina. Our regard for Luck as fans might be way off from Carolinas FO. Who knows, but to dismiss it as impossible is what keeps Buffalo from winning. Who thought NE could get Moss for what they did. Madden at work I guess.

Everyone thought N.E. could get Moss for peanuts. He had a reputation as a Cancer that quit on his team far worse than T.O. when he was on Oakland.

I guarantee if Carolina thinks as much of Luck as some on this board there is no price that could pry him away but as you said they may not, so a trade is possible if that is the case. But unless the Bills FO then also think as much as some fans on this board they will never trade the farm for him. JMO.

[X-Era]

Over 80% of the people polled would trade at least the posted value to get Luck.

What does this say about whether most feel Fitz is all we need?

[better days]

Over 80% of the people polled would trade at least the posted value to get Luck.

What does this say about whether most feel Fitz is all we need?

I did not vote to trade for Luck but that does not mean I think Fitz is all we need.

[jamze132]

I have a hard time believing Carolina will trade down regardless. Maybe if they were Ricky'd but I doubt it.