PFT latest on the bills move bandwagon

[Buffalogic]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/19/bills-fans-should-be-nervous-about-losing-their-team-to-l-a/


Let the fear-mongering..continue!

[Goobylal]

The Bills won't be moving.

[BertSquirtgum]

i'm so sick of reading this bull****. there is enough interest by people that have enough money to keep the bills here. the bills aren't going anywhere. boom, mark it down.

[PromoTheRobot]

PFT is not "reporting" anything other than Jerry Sunshine's latest column.

PTR

[BertSquirtgum]

I wish Jerry Sullivan would climb a 100' cliff and jump off.

[HAMMER]

i'm so sick of reading this bull****. there is enough interest by people that have enough money to keep the bills here. the bills aren't going anywhere. boom, mark it down.

The article is spot on, when Ralph dies all bets are off for sure. If you are going to spend a billion on a team you have to make the most money you possibly can. An old stadium in Buffalo is not that place. It's simple math. I know it's not a popular notion but it's the truth. I will be just as upset as anyone else if they leave Buffalo.

[Night Train]

Speculating on the Bills move has been almost a yearly panic since 1971, when Seattle was mentioned as our next destination unless a football only stadium was built.

It's like being told "you're going to die !" and 85 years later, the 3rd generation brags " told ya ". :rolleyes:

and yet...we're still here...

Enjoy the day and quit dying to be right.

[Jan Reimers]

I continue to believe that there are enough people with enough money - Golisano, Pegula, a Kelly Consortium, at least - to keep the Bills in Buffalo. I believe they will be here when Ralph no longer is.

I also realize, however, that I have no control over the situation, and I am plenty old enough not to worry about things that I can't control.

[DraftBoy]

I continue to believe that there are enough people with enough money - Golisano, Pegula, a Kelly Consortium, at least - to keep the Bills in Buffalo. I believe they will be here when Ralph no longer is.
I also realize, however, that I have no control over the situation, and I am plenty old enough not to worry about things that I can't control.


That along with the NFL Comissioner's stated desire to have the team remain in WNY are enough for me to be content. I do not believe the team is leaving since any sale has to be approved and while Jones/Snyder may like the idea of getting rid of a revenue sharing the team, they are not the majority of the NFL owners.

[PromoTheRobot]

That along with the NFL Comissioner's stated desire to have the team remain in WNY are enough for me to be content. I do not believe the team is leaving since any sale has to be approved and while Jones/Snyder may like the idea of getting rid of a revenue sharing the team, they are not the majority of the NFL owners.
The question is does Roger Goodell have enough spine to stand up to Jones, Kraft and Snyder?

PTR

[DraftBoy]

The question is does Roger Goodell have enough spine to stand up to Jones, Kraft and Snyder?

PTR

If he can present a better case for a team moving (lack of tradition, poor ticket sales, etc.) then I dont think the owners will pick the Bills over a team like that.

We need Ralph to hold on as long as possible and we need the NFL to move faster on a team to LA.

[Dr. Lecter]

Buffalo does not have the corporate infrastructure for an NFL team. In all honesty, in today's market this area is not a legitimate NFL market.

It pains me to say so, but a team could be much more successful from a financial stanpoint elsewhere.

[better days]

Buffalo does not have the corporate infrastructure for an NFL team. In all honesty, in today's market this area is not a legitimate NFL market.

It pains me to say so, but a team could be much more successful from a financial stanpoint elsewhere.

From a financial standpoint, you are most likely right. As Bills fans we have to hope someone like Pegula or Kelly & his group buy the Bills not to make money, but because they want the Bills to remain in Buffalo.

[Ebenezer]

From a financial standpoint, you are most likely right. As Bills fans we have to hope someone like Pegula or Kelly & his group buy the Bills not to make money, but because they want the Bills to remain in Buffalo.
There is a huge difference between coming in, buying an NHL team as a hobby for under $200M and throw around another $50M to improve the product and buying an NFL team for $1B (one third of Pegula's worth) and constantly infusing the amount of money it takes to run an NFL team when you don't have the corporate structure in that city.

[PromoTheRobot]

Buffalo does not have the corporate infrastructure for an NFL team. In all honesty, in today's market this area is not a legitimate NFL market.

It pains me to say so, but a team could be much more successful from a financial stanpoint elsewhere.

No, but Rochester, Syracuse and Toronto do. Add them up and you have enough corporate support for an NFL franchise.

I know we all hate the Toronto series but we need to have that city in our market. And I'm pretty sure if the Bills were a playoff team they would have less trouble selling out.

In fact the best thing the team can do to keep the team viable in WNY is be a winner. The Bills have a long history of fans travelling hours to games. Toronto, Erie, Olean, Rochester and Syracuse are all within 2 hours drive. Start winning and businesses will want to jump on the bandwagon.

PTR

[trapezeus]

the opposite is true as well. you can spend a billion dollars, but then have an additional $100MM in moving expenses and another $600MM-$1BN for a new stadium.

How do you make more money? Conservatives want to chip in here? Cut expenses. You most likely stick around with the old stadium where you don't pay a dime for renovations and you take all the profit out of it in western new york, and he has a pretty good idea of what the revenues and expenses look like.

So is it easier for a pegula to buy the bills and live happily with the old stadium? or is it easier for a Billionaire from LA to buy the bills, build a stadium, pay the nfl relocation costs, and then hope to god that the fans show up in a market where they notoriously haven't?

and the thing about the stadiums that the LA developers want to build is that their estimates are rumored to be completely off and short between $200MM-$1BN. So my numbers above could be off by as much as that.

I don't want golisano buying the bills. it'll be ralph: part 2. I have hopes of pegula. he seems to relish the love that western new york has given him and his family. He still is left with $2BN in the event his buffalo sports teams don't pan out. and the kelly consortium i have little to no hope in.

He is like the kid who dreams of buying a brand new car before he turns 16 to impress the girls and is expecting his 20 hour work week at mighty taco to get him a beamer.

You love the gumption, but you aren't buying the reality of it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That article is full of **** though. Basically taking info from Jerry Sullivan who is a douchebag, and taking his opinions.

Nothing of real substance.

I mean the guy seriously wrote that because the Bill's weren't mentioned that they are really the #1 candidate? How does he make that ASSumption??? I could write the same article and state that there actually is 0% chance the Bills will move and be just as credible.

I really wish they would just get it over with already though. It just sickens me that they would need to move a team that is the heart of the cities residents and IS profitable to a market where it would just be a place to be seen and have not actual love for it. The older I get the more the kid in me, in regards to sports, dies each passing year.

[PromoTheRobot]

the opposite is true as well. you can spend a billion dollars, but then have an additional $100MM in moving expenses and another $600MM-$1BN for a new stadium.

How do you make more money? Conservatives want to chip in here? Cut expenses. You most likely stick around with the old stadium where you don't pay a dime for renovations and you take all the profit out of it in western new york, and he has a pretty good idea of what the revenues and expenses look like.

So is it easier for a pegula to buy the bills and live happily with the old stadium? or is it easier for a Billionaire from LA to buy the bills, build a stadium, pay the nfl relocation costs, and then hope to god that the fans show up in a market where they notoriously haven't?

and the thing about the stadiums that the LA developers want to build is that their estimates are rumored to be completely off and short between $200MM-$1BN. So my numbers above could be off by as much as that.

I don't want golisano buying the bills. it'll be ralph: part 2. I have hopes of pegula. he seems to relish the love that western new york has given him and his family. He still is left with $2BN in the event his buffalo sports teams don't pan out. and the kelly consortium i have little to no hope in.

He is like the kid who dreams of buying a brand new car before he turns 16 to impress the girls and is expecting his 20 hour work week at mighty taco to get him a beamer.

You love the gumption, but you aren't buying the reality of it.

Don't forget about Jeremy Gundlach (http://www.buffalorising.com/2011/05/jeffrey-gundlach-expresses-interest-in-purchasing-buffalo-bills.html).

PTR

[better days]

There is a huge difference between coming in, buying an NHL team as a hobby for under $200M and throw around another $50M to improve the product and buying an NFL team for $1B (one third of Pegula's worth) and constantly infusing the amount of money it takes to run an NFL team when you don't have the corporate structure in that city.

The Bills may not make as much money in Buffalo as they would in LA, but they would not lose money in Buffalo.


Aside from Buffalo, the Bills territory includes Toronto, & Rochester.
There is enough corporate structure in the Bills territory to support the Bills.
Play a game or two in Toronto, keep the training camp in Rochester, the Bills will make money.

If a new stadium is built, I think it should be built where it is easily accessed & a short drive from Toronto & Rochester.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The article is spot on, when Ralph dies all bets are off for sure. If you are going to spend a billion on a team you have to make the most money you possibly can. An old stadium in Buffalo is not that place. It's simple math. I know it's not a popular notion but it's the truth. I will be just as upset as anyone else if they leave Buffalo.
Did Pegula purchase the Sabres with the thought of making money?.........NO

Why is it not possible that the new owner might not be a money grubbing SCUMBAG and actually care for the Bills and the city of Buffalo?

I understand there is a real possibility that they move but no one ever addresses that point. Hello NONE of us ever heard of Terry Pegula until a couple months before he bought the team. Who is to say there aren't others like him out there? I know they brought up that guy in LA who is from Buffalo. Could be others as well. WHO IS TO SAY???

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I find it interesting that I read a rumor that Kelly's backers are the people who run the Seneca Casino. Why I find this so interesting is Kelly supported the idea of moving the stadium near the Falls. This would make sense casue the casino would see the stadium as a major tourist attraction. While it would suck to move the Stadium to the falls, I think a ferry ride or train ride to games from Buffalo would ease the concern for me. While not tailgating, that Ferry ride would be nuts riding to Bills games.

[PromoTheRobot]

Did Pegula purchase the Sabres with the thought of making money?.........NO

Why is it not possible that the new owner might not be a money grubbing SCUMBAG and actually care for the Bills and the city of Buffalo?

I understand there is a real possibility that they move but no one ever addresses that point. Hello NONE of us ever heard of Terry Pegula until a couple months before he bought the team. Who is to say there aren't others like him out there? I know they brought up that guy in LA who is from Buffalo. Could be others as well. WHO IS TO SAY???

Because there are only a few hundred billionaires in the world, and they didn't become billionaires by not caring about making money. Step back a moment and listen to what you are saying: You want someone to spend $2 BILLION (for team and new stadium) for laughs. How many people in the world are in that position, seriously?

PTR

[better days]

Because there are only a few hundred billionaires in the world, and they didn't become billionaires by not caring about making money. Step back a moment and listen to what you are saying: You want someone to spend $2 BILLION (for team and new stadium) for laughs. How many people in the world are in that position, seriously?

PTR

It only takes one, & there are more than one out there.

[PromoTheRobot]

I find it interesting that I read a rumor that Kelly's backers are the people who run the Seneca Casino. Why I find this so interesting is Kelly supported the idea of moving the stadium near the Falls. This would make sense casue the casino would see the stadium as a major tourist attraction. While it would suck to move the Stadium to the falls, I think a ferry ride or train ride to games from Buffalo would ease the concern for me. While not tailgating, that Ferry ride would be nuts riding to Bills games.

I'm curious...what kind of ferry ride are we talking about? Buffalo to Niagara Falls? That last 1/4 mile is a lulu.

I don't see why the Falls would be any worse than Orchard Park. Plus at the Falls you have a natural tourist attraction to build on. Imagine a huge hotel/convention/entertainment complex right next to the Rainbow Bridge? 10 times year there's NFL football. There might be a college bowl game, or an NCAA Final Four, or even a Super Bowl! And when there isn't a game, there is a Bills museum complete with NFL experience for tourists. Plus this complex is 30 minutes closer to Toronto than RWS.

THAT is how the Bills find new money.

PTR

[HAMMER]

No, but Rochester, Syracuse and Toronto do. Add them up and you have enough corporate support for an NFL franchise.

I know we all hate the Toronto series but we need to have that city in our market. And I'm pretty sure if the Bills were a playoff team they would have less trouble selling out.

In fact the best thing the team can do to keep the team viable in WNY is be a winner. The Bills have a long history of fans travelling hours to games. Toronto, Erie, Olean, Rochester and Syracuse are all within 2 hours drive. Start winning and businesses will want to jump on the bandwagon.

PTR

If this is the case then why aren't the corporations leasing all the existing luxury boxes now?

[PromoTheRobot]

It only takes one, & there are more than one out there.
I wouldn't want to bet on it. There might be one...but he's probably a Steelers fan.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

If this is the case then why aren't the corporations leasing all the existing luxury boxes now?

Actually almost all of the luxury boxes are sold at RWS, but at a rate much lower than other NFL teams. The Bills still lag in selling premium seats like the M&T Club.

PTR

[trapezeus]

but an owner not looking to relocate the team would have a reliable stream of money coming in. therefore, like amortgage, his loan would be covered by annual profits.

a guy moving the team and MODELING out3-10x profit based on EXPECTATIONS of companies and rich LA types is much different than the reality.

2-3 years of being the ticket to get does not offset $1BN purchase.

knowing that the buffalo bills will make you $50MM a year ever year without TV costs and revenue sharing means that in 20 years, you'd recoup $1bn. and the fact that owners keep the first billion and split it 32 ways is an additional $31.3MM. Then they get 41% of the remaining $4bn split 32 ways which is another $51.3MM per owner.

So in about 10 years by running a crappy team with little payroll, you can recoup your cost in buffalo without a stadium. Fans aren't clamouring for it.

but in la, you'd need 30-40 years to recover the $2bn-$3bn you may spend all in. and god knows you payroll better be high or the fickle fans of LA will go elsewhere.

To me, it's a no brainer to stay here.

the Buffalo born la guy who recently entered the race seems unlikely because he needs to get a group together. that's tricky because the people who aren't the face of it will want returns.

[HAMMER]

That article is full of **** though. Basically taking info from Jerry Sullivan who is a douchebag, and taking his opinions.

Nothing of real substance.

I mean the guy seriously wrote that because the Bill's weren't mentioned that they are really the #1 candidate? How does he make that ASSumption??? I could write the same article and state that there actually is 0% chance the Bills will move and be just as credible.

I really wish they would just get it over with already though. It just sickens me that they would need to move a team that is the heart of the cities residents and IS profitable to a market where it would just be a place to be seen and have not actual love for it. The older I get the more the kid in me, in regards to sports, dies each passing year.

The team is profitable only because they have no debt to service. The 25K Ralph spent was recouped a LOOOONG time ago. If someone has to spend a Billion and they know they are only going to make a 5 or 10 million a year in an old stadium, do you think they are going to keep the team in that market?

[better days]

I wouldn't want to bet on it. There might be one...but he's probably a Steelers fan.

PTR

Well, you would lose your bet. You have no idea about Pegula. As the Sabres owner, he has been embraced by the City of Buffalo & if he doesn't already, he soon will love the City of Buffalo as much as the Sabres.

Aside from him, Kelly has said he has people lined up to buy the Bills & there have been others with money that have gone on record as saying they would like to buy the Bills & keep them in Buffalo.

[trapezeus]

The team is profitable only because they have no debt to service. The 25K Ralph spent was recouped a LOOOONG time ago. If someone has to spend a Billion and they know they are only going to make a 5 or 10 million a year in an old stadium, do you think they are going to keep the team in that market?

arbitrary number generation?

[HAMMER]

Well, you would lose your bet. You have no idea about Pegula. As the Sabres owner, he has been embraced by the City of Buffalo & if he doesn't already, he soon will love the City of Buffalo as much as the Sabres.

Aside from him, Kelly has said he has people lined up to buy the Bills & there have been others with money that have gone on record as saying they would like to buy the Bills & keep them in Buffalo.

This is all well and good, but keep in mind the group/person willing to pay the most will get the team, not just the group that wants it and has the money.

We can only hope that Ralph's estate would have a provision that requires the buyer to keep the team in Buffalo.

[trapezeus]

the bills are actually valued at ~$700MM. I doubt any buyer is going to go almost 30% in premiums to pull the bills out.

but you never know. barclays thought buying lehman in bankruptcy was a good deal.

[PromoTheRobot]

Well, you would lose your bet. You have no idea about Pegula. As the Sabres owner, he has been embraced by the City of Buffalo & if he doesn't already, he soon will love the City of Buffalo as much as the Sabres.

Aside from him, Kelly has said he has people lined up to buy the Bills & there have been others with money that have gone on record as saying they would like to buy the Bills & keep them in Buffalo.

Well we know Jeremy Gundlach is on record as wanting to buy the Bills to keep them in WNY. Terry Pegula has said publicly that he's not looking to buy the Bills. Now he could be saying that as to not upset Ralph Wilson, but you're asking a guy to plunk down 2/3 of his personal wealth on another "plaything." What would Mrs. Pegula say?

And please don't bring up Jim Kelly's name as a possible buyer. Jim likes to talk. I have my doubts that he has anyone seriously lined up to buy the Bills. And really, if you already have a couple of billion dollars to buy the team, why do you need Jim Kelly in the first place?

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

the bills are actually valued at ~$700MM. I doubt any buyer is going to go almost 30% in premiums to pull the bills out.

but you never know. barclays thought buying lehman in bankruptcy was a good deal.

Yes but demand for an available NFL franchise will create a bidding war. Those valuations are silly anyway. Something is worth what someone will pay for it.

PTR

[better days]

Well we know Jeremy Gundlach is on record as wanting to buy the Bills to keep them in WNY. Terry Pegula has said publicly that he's not looking to buy the Bills. Now he could be saying that as to not upset Ralph Wilson, but you're asking a guy to plunk down 2/3 of his personal wealth on another "plaything." What would Mrs. Pegula say?

And please don't bring up Jim Kelly's name as a possible buyer. Jim likes to talk. I have my doubts that he has anyone seriously lined up to buy the Bills. And really, if you already have a couple of billion dollars to buy the team, why do you need Jim Kelly for in the first place?

PTR

Whoever buys the Bills will not have to pay all that money upfront. A lender will pay the majority of the up front cost & the owner will pay the lender back from money from the fans in the form of seat licenses, ticket sales etc.

The point is that it is just as feasible that the Bills remain in Buffalo as it is that they leave.

[PromoTheRobot]

Whoever buys the Bills will not have to pay all that money upfront. A lender will pay the majority of the up front cost & the owner will pay the lender back from money from the fans in the form of seat licenses, ticket sales etc.

The point is that it is just as feasible that the Bills remain in Buffalo as it is that they leave.

I have to disagree. Any buyer of the Bills will have to pay cash out of pocket because the interest on a loan that size would sink the team. It's been discussed many times how the Bills are profitable ONLY because they have no debt.

PTR

[trapezeus]

Yes but demand for an available NFL franchise will create a bidding war. Those valuations are silly anyway. Something is worth what someone will pay for it.

PTR

which is the same point on valuations that LA will generate more money for an owner.

toronto taught the league you can make up all the numbers you want on ticket sales, people won't necessarily buy them.

The bills have a very real 50 year history of selling out regardless of what you spend on the product.

risk/reward. at $1bn-$3bn down to get the team and build everything, don't you think they want some guaranteed results and risk mitigation.

[HAMMER]

arbitrary number generation?

Here you go, link showing franchise value and operating income for all teams, this is before taxes, interest. Buffalo at 12.4 million.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/30/sportsmoney_nfl08_NFL-Team-Valuations_Revenue_2.html
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operatingincome.asp

[DraftBoy]

Buffalo does not have the corporate infrastructure for an NFL team. In all honesty, in today's market this area is not a legitimate NFL market.

It pains me to say so, but a team could be much more successful from a financial stanpoint elsewhere.

100% right but the NFL (despite these labor negotiations) is not all about the bottom line. They still choose to hold up the image of being fan/family friendly. Taking a team away from a hard working small town that busts its ass to support the team (i.e. Cleveland) is a PR nightmare for the league and doesn't look good.

If it comes down to a bottom line issue, Buffalo has absolutely no shot to keep the team. However I think more factors are in play, at least for the time being.

[better days]

I have to disagree. Any buyer of the Bills will have to pay cash out of pocket because the interest on a loan that size would sink the team. It's been discussed many times how the Bills are profitable ONLY because they have no debt.

PTR

Well, the Bills could be more profitable if run properly. The crooks that used to own the Sabres always said they were not profitable. Well, they were bad businessmen. While Pegula said he is did not buy the Sabres to make a profit, he will probably do so because of the way he will operate the team.

[Jan Reimers]

There is a huge difference between coming in, buying an NHL team as a hobby for under $200M and throw around another $50M to improve the product and buying an NFL team for $1B (one third of Pegula's worth) and constantly infusing the amount of money it takes to run an NFL team when you don't have the corporate structure in that city.
The Bills are nowhere near a $1B franchise (although I see your point, that a bidding war might get them there), and while I'm not sure exactly how these deals are done, I doubt that Pegula would write a check for the full sale price, be it $1B or the $600-700M actual franchise value.

A local owner would save the large NFL relocation fee, and could at least use the existing stadium for some period of time, while alternatives were considered.

And how many cities really have the corporate structure to play in the Kraft/Jones/ Mara world? As stated above, the Toronto/Southern Ontario/Rochester/Syracuse/Northeast Pennsylvania regionalization gives us a pretty good corporate base, at least as good as several NFL cities.

And while no one who lives in or near Buffalo seems to see it, the city really appears to be on the rebound.

[PromoTheRobot]

which is the same point on valuations that LA will generate more money for an owner.

toronto taught the league you can make up all the numbers you want on ticket sales, people won't necessarily buy them.

The bills have a very real 50 year history of selling out regardless of what you spend on the product.

risk/reward. at $1bn-$3bn down to get the team and build everything, don't you think they want some guaranteed results and risk mitigation.

I need to challenge you on both points. Toronto was a clusterf**k from the get go, charging rip-off prices, forcing people to buy all 8 games to watch a terrible team that wasn't even theirs. If the Bills were a competitive team and if Rogers didn't get crazy greedy on ticket prices, Toronto would show up.

As for the Bills always selling out, you know as well as I do December games rarely sell out, even when we were decent. Ironic considering how people from Buffalo talk about being so badass about the cold. The truth is most folks would rather watch at on TV at home when its cold. We aren't Jacksonville bad, but we aren't Green Bay.

PTR

[Lone Stranger]

The Bills won't be moving.

While I like your sentiments it would be a good idea if you expressed your reasoning. I'm 50/50 on this issue and would like all the info I can get.

[OpIv37]

This article is all speculation and nothing we haven't heard before.

That being said, it's all speculation to say the Bills AREN'T moving at this point. Ralph has done NOTHING to keep the team in Buffalo as far as we know. Those who said he may have done something behind the scenes are just speculating, and speculating poorly IMO, because revealing what he's done would make stories like this go away.

Jim Kelly and local politicians have said they won't let the Bills leave town, but neither have the pull necessary to keep the Bills here if the Wilson family decides to sell and someone from out of town makes the highest offer.

Until something concrete comes out, the speculation that the Bills will stay is no more or less credible than the speculation that they will leave.

[BertSquirtgum]

i just farted. this news was brought to you by hurkeynuts and matters as much as this foolish "report" by Mike "the dumbass" Florio.

[HAMMER]

The Bills are nowhere near a $1B franchise (although I see your point, that a bidding war might get them there), and while I'm not sure exactly how these deals are done, I doubt that Pegula would write a check for the full sale price, be it $1B or the $600-700M actual franchise value.

A local owner would save the large NFL relocation fee, and could at least use the existing stadium for some period of time, while alternatives were considered.

And how many cities really have the corporate structure to play in the Kraft/Jones/ Mara world? As stated above, the Toronto/Southern Ontario/Rochester/Syracuse/Northeast Pennsylvania regionalization gives us a pretty good corporate base, at least as good as several NFL cities.

And while no one who lives in or near Buffalo seems to see it, the city really appears to be on the rebound.

Franchise value is 885 million, that's a few high bids away from a billion. In the last year alone the franchise value increased 8%.

[Jan Reimers]

Franchise value is 885 million, that's a few high bids away from a billion. In the last year alone the franchise value increased 8%.
Thanks. That's far higher than the last number I saw. Is it from Forbes?

[HAMMER]

Thanks. That's far higher than the last number I saw. Is it from Forbes?

It is.

[BillsFever21]

The issue isn't with ticket sales as much as it is with selling luxury boxes. Of course the revenue you get from ticket sales plays into the equation but that money is split between all the owners. The money they make from the luxury boxes goes straight to the owner and not split between the other 31 teams.

The Bills could never have high ticket prices that were even around league average. We have enough trouble selling out with the lowest prices in the league. Especially when the team isn't playing well to start the year off. Other owners don't like that because they want a bigger cut from the shared ticket revenue expenses.

Add the luxury boxes into the equation which the owner gets to keep for themselves and they can get a lot more for them in a bigger market then they do in Buffalo.

As far as needing a stadium if they moved the team most of the time the new city pays for the stadium or a huge percentage of the cost. With that in mind that isn't a huge factor in their equation.

I hope to god the Bills stay here when Wilson dies too but it needs to be looked at with a realistic view and not just a fanatical point of view. At best the odds are 50/50 at that they do. Unless it's a diehard WNY native(or group of buyers) who loves the Bills then the chances or even lower.

A neutral owner could get far more for the luxury boxes in a bigger city and a new stadium and as long as they can keep their attendance close to Buffalo's since they get to keep the revenue from the recessions then it's almost goodbye Buffalo.

[PromoTheRobot]

The issue isn't with ticket sales as much as it is with selling luxury boxes. Of course the revenue you get from ticket sales plays into the equation but that money is split between all the owners. The money they make from the luxury boxes goes straight to the owner and not split between the other 31 teams.

The Bills could never have high ticket prices that were even around league average. We have enough trouble selling out with the lowest prices in the league. Especially when the team isn't playing well to start the year off. Other owners don't like that because they want a bigger cut from the shared ticket revenue expenses.

Add the luxury boxes into the equation which the owner gets to keep for themselves and they can get a lot more for them in a bigger market then they do in Buffalo.

As far as needing a stadium if they moved the team most of the time the new city pays for the stadium or a huge percentage of the cost. With that in mind that isn't a huge factor in their equation.

I hope to god the Bills stay here when Wilson dies too but it needs to be looked at with a realistic view and not just a fanatical point of view. At best the odds are 50/50 at that they do. Unless it's a diehard WNY native(or group of buyers) who loves the Bills then the chances or even lower.

A neutral owner could get far more for the luxury boxes in a bigger city and a new stadium and as long as they can keep their attendance close to Buffalo's since they get to keep the revenue from the recessions then it's almost goodbye Buffalo.
Gotta start winning and hope Toronto fans catch the fever.

PTR

[Extremebillsfan247]

That along with the NFL Comissioner's stated desire to have the team remain in WNY are enough for me to be content. I do not believe the team is leaving since any sale has to be approved and while Jones/Snyder may like the idea of getting rid of a revenue sharing the team, they are not the majority of the NFL owners. With the way things are going in today's NFL, it's tough to be content with anything the Commissioner says in my opinion. He's all about increasing NFL revenue. If a new owner moving the Bills to a bigger market gets him that, he probably wont hesitate to throw Bills fans under the bus as it leaves town, and then hide behind some empty rhetoric about how he was such a big fan etc. I just don't trust him.

[BertSquirtgum]

With the way things are going in today's NFL, it's tough to be content with anything the Commissioner says in my opinion. He's all about increasing NFL revenue. If a new owner moving the Bills to a bigger market gets him that, he probably wont hesitate to throw Bills fans under the bus as it leaves town, and then hide behind some empty rhetoric about how he was such a big fan etc. I just don't trust him.

i would haunt his dreams if he did this.

[ddaryl]

here is a list of larger markets. Many already have teams, some are purely college football towns, and others have NFL teams near by....

http://www.infopleas...a/A0763098.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html)

Buffalo with Southern Ontario, and Rochester as well as Erie county has a large number of NFL football fans..

I don't think it is as gloom and doom as many fear... but we still need to address some issues for a new owner like a new stadium with better luxury boxes... Ticket price increase is inevitable.....

[THATHURMANATOR]

WHAT NOW HAMMER!!!

[better days]

here is a list of larger markets. Many already have teams, some are purely college football towns, and others have NFL teams near by....

http://www.infopleas...a/A0763098.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html)

Buffalo with Southern Ontario, and Rochester as well as Erie county has a large number of NFL football fans..

I don't think it is as gloom and doom as many fear... but we still need to address some issues for a new owner like a new stadium with better luxury boxes... Ticket price increase is inevitable.....

I'm with you. If you take the surrounding area into consideration including the Falls, Rochester, Toronto as well as the suburbs of Buffalo, it is a large population. A new Stadium should be built that would be as fast & easy to get to as possible from the outlying areas

[Bill Cody]

LA is a larger market. It has also failed twice to support a team.

The commissioner has no control over whether the team moves or not. That will be up to the new owners. There is only one guy on this planet that can guarantee the Bills never leave Buffalo. But he says he won't lift a finger to do so. Well I'm lifting one.

[Bill Cody]

jock itch

foot fungus

herpes

shingles

hemorrhoids

Jerry Sullivan

[better days]

It was nice to hear what Russ Brandon had to say on WGR the other day. He basicly said the same thing I said. Toronto & Rochester are part of Buffalos territory making Buffalo one of the largest markets in the entire NFL.

IMO all the Bills need to do is to build a new stadium where the Ralph should have been built, between Buffalo & Rochester, making it easier to get to for fans from Rochester & Toronto.