Jonathan Martin gets made fun of by teammates, leaves team

[Pinkerton Security]

Offensive linemen made fun of Martin in the cafeteria, I'm assuming for sucking so badly, and he runs away from the team. What is this, middle school??

Love it.

It does say at the bottom he is receiving treatment...for what, a bruised ego? I know mental illness isnt a joke but come on man.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9904868/jonathan-martin-miami-dolphins-leaves-team

[JoeMama]

That's the kind of steely resolve I expect from a Miami Dolphin.

[Buffalo Thriller]

I feel bad for the guy. Just kidding he needs to quit being a pussy.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The most common sign that people fail to understand mental illness is that they say things like, "come on man," or "snap out of it."

[trapezeus]

he's a stanford kid. i'm sure he is a little higher brow than your average lineman.

[Pinkerton Security]

The most common sign that people fail to understand mental illness is that they say things like, "come on man," or "snap out of it."

hahaha whatever dude, get serious about it. I know its an illness, trust me. Just having a little fun at the Dolphins expense. Lighten up.

You probably go to see stand-up and are offended at everything the comedians say.

Also, its not like he simply left the team bc he was having mental issues. If he's too sensitive mentally to take ribbing from his own teammates, maybe he shouldnt be playing in the NFL at all.

[Ed]

Remember when some fans wanted the Bills to use the #10 overall pick on this guy a couple years ago?

[ParanoidAndroid]

hahaha whatever dude, get serious about it. I know its an illness, trust me. Just having a little fun at the Dolphins expense. Lighten up.

You probably go to see stand-up and are offended at everything the comedians say.

Nope. Because good comedians are actually funny. There's a difference between creating humor based on human flaws and pointing and laughing at another's misfortune. You're just as middle school as the Dolphins right now.

[Bill Cody]

The most common sign that people fail to understand mental illness is that they say things like, "come on man," or "snap out of it."


Aren't you jumping to a conclusion that he's mentally ill?

[Pinkerton Security]

Nope. Because good comedians are actually funny. There's a difference between creating humor based on human flaws and pointing and laughing at another's misfortune. You're just as middle school as the Dolphins right now.

Dont take yourself so seriously. I'm sure you laugh at some things that others would find offensive, get over it. I dont care what you say, the fact that he was made fun of, and left the team, is friggin funny, especially because hes a Dolphin.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Aren't you jumping to a conclusion that he's mentally ill?

The OP, did that.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Dont take yourself so seriously. I'm sure you laugh at some things that others would find offensive, get over it. I dont care what you say, the fact that he was made fun of, and left the team, is friggin funny, especially because hes a Dolphin.

You seriously don't see the difference? Sure, I made jokes like this..... when I was 12.

[stuckincincy]

The OP, did that.

And now we have DSM 5, where grieving and shyness are now classified as mental illness:

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/02/09/shyness-illness-in-dangerous-health-book-experts-say/?test=latestnews#ixzz1m0DAH900

[Bulldog]

I'm so sick of the PC police telling people what they can and cannot joke around about. The things that offend people these days is freakin appalling. And the pussification of America continues.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

he's a stanford kid. i'm sure he is a little higher brow than your average lineman.

Linemen typically have the second highest wonderlic scores behind the qbs. The idea that they are dumb meatheads is a myth.

Now cornerbacks. ..

[ParanoidAndroid]

I'm so sick of the PC police telling people what they can and cannot joke around about. The things that offend people these days is freakin appalling. And the pussification of America continues.

Never told anyone they can't joke about things. I can tell you that I know immaturity when I see it. There's nothing PC about what I'm saying here. Joke about mental illness if you want. I just might laugh. But if you stand there laughing and pointing AT someone's personal misfortune, I'll probably call you an a**hole.

[Bulldog]

Never told anyone they can't joke about things. I can tell you that I know immaturity when I see it. There's nothing PC about what I'm saying here. Joke about mental illness if you want. I just might laugh. But if you stand there laughing and pointing AT someone's personal misfortune, I'll probably call you an a**hole.

I hardly think this qualifies as pointing and laughing at someone's misfortune. And to my knowledge, he hasn't been diagnosed with any form of mental illness yet. Sounds to me like the guy had a bad day. It happens. But it doesn't make this any less funny. Time to put on the big boy pants and go back to his job that he gets paid very handsomely to do.

[Albany,n.y.]

I hardly think this qualifies as pointing and laughing at someone's misfortune. And to my knowledge, he hasn't been diagnosed with any form of mental illness yet. Sounds to me like the guy had a bad day. It happens. But it doesn't make this any less funny. Time to put on the big boy pants and go back to his job that he gets paid very handsomely to do.

The reports I read said he is "In treatment". Sounds like he flipped out & is in the loony bin (Sorry, with all the PC posts I couldn't resist getting on their nerves)

[Bill Cody]

The OP, did that.

Really? He sought counseling. He supposedly had an "emotional breakdown". So that makes him "mentally ill"? It could mean that. or it could mean that he had a bad day. was embarrassed and needed to talk to someone.
If it's the latter and the gag wasn't too cruel then yeah I can see where that could be funny. Maybe the rest of the linemen did an impression of a swinging gate.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Really? He sought counseling. He supposedly had an "emotional breakdown". So that makes him "mentally ill"? It could mean that. or it could mean that he had a bad day. was embarrassed and needed to talk to someone.
If it's the latter and the gag wasn't too cruel then yeah I can see where that could be funny.

Ugh. I was responding to the original post that first mentioned mental illness. I did not bring that up.


Maybe the rest of the linemen did an impression of a swinging gate.

Now that is funny.

[Skooby]

The thin skin comes from his mother's side.

[Meathead]

unless he has red hair its really classless to make fun of his emotional struggles

[Mouldsie]

Linemen typically have the second highest wonderlic scores behind the qbs. The idea that they are dumb meatheads is a myth.

Now cornerbacks. ..
Actually I think they rank higher than QB's

[Skooby]

Actually I think they rank higher than QB's

Unless it's a Harvard Bills QB.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I'm so sick of the PC police telling people what they can and cannot joke around about. The things that offend people these days is freakin appalling. And the pussification of America continues.

Uh nobody is saying you can't say it. That doesn't mean you aren't a dick for saying it. We aren't talking about Dave Chappelle here making a funny joke, we are talking about morons on an internet forum. This is not comedy this is 2 dudes sitting in a bar making fart jokes.

I'm also pretty sure when the founding fathers thought of freedom of speech, they weren't talking about the right to be a dick. Common human decency is unfortunately the collateral damage to ensure intellectual discourse and government criticism are protected. Morons get the same freedom of speech as people with normal healthy brains without an axe to grind about how you "can't say anything these days" (which is absolutely 100% completely false btw. Do you not have Facebook????).

Feel free to use it however you want however, that's the American way!

[Skooby]

Uh nobody is saying you can't say it. That doesn't mean you aren't a dick for saying it. We aren't talking about Dave Chappelle here making a funny joke, we are talking about morons on an internet forum. This is not comedy this is 2 dudes sitting in a bar making fart jokes.

I'm also pretty sure when the founding fathers thought of freedom of speech, they weren't talking about the right to be a dick. Common human decency is unfortunately the collateral damage to ensure intellectual discourse and government criticism are protected. Morons get the same freedom of speech as people with normal healthy brains without an axe to grind about how you "can't say anything these days" (which is absolutely 100% completely false btw. Do you not have Facebook????).

Feel free to use it however you want however, that's the American way!

Cost of doing business.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Cost of doing business.

That's why I live in Alaska.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Bullying is not acceptable in the NFL. There should be a Bullying Awareness Month and all the players should wear yellow.

[Crisis]

Bullying is not acceptable in the NFL. There should be a Bullying Awareness Month and all the players should wear yellow.

And the officials can have yellow flags for awareness!

[TacklingDummy]

I'm so sick of the PC police telling people what they can and cannot joke around about. The things that offend people these days is freakin appalling. And the pussification of America continues.

What do you expect when the fastest growing sport in this country is soccer.

[K-Gun]

What do you expect when the fastest growing sport in this country is soccer.

Man, I miss the good old days when it was accpetable to come home drunk after a hard days work and beat the wife b/c dinner wasn't ready. Damn pussy pc police are ruining this country.

And yeah, we could sit around and speculate that Martin is mentally ill for walking out on a job that pays him millions, but I'm not sure how well any of you would do in the prison gang environment of the NFL. I know I wouldn't put up with that ****, but what do you expect from a soccer lover pussy.

Btw, USA! USA! I cannot wait for Brazil.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CP6HdKqdSY

[TacklingDummy]

Man, I miss the good old days when it was accpetable to come home drunk after a hard days work and beat the wife b/c dinner wasn't ready.



Not sure when that was ever acceptable.

[Bill Cody]

Man, I miss the good old days when it was accpetable to come home drunk after a hard days work and beat the wife b/c dinner wasn't ready.

that's a joke, right?

[trapezeus]

anyone think that maybe he got bullied because maybe he isn't exactly like them. Whether it's his college background or that he might be gay, he seemingly got taken to task for over a year. i know we are all macho guys, but sometimes, when you've had enough....you've had enough. Who knows what hte full story is, but it seems like he is being treated pretty poorly if the last straw for him was sitting down and having everyone leave. even amongst friends, that's kind of a dick thing to do if you aren't sitting right back down again or there is some other context to it.

and most people don't resort to violence. they throw their hands up and say, "f that s" and they walk away. and worse, they do something to themselves.

[GingerP]

What do you expect when the fastest growing sport in this country is soccer.

No it isn't. I'm not sure what metric you are using, but the fastest growing sport in terms of participation is Lacrosse. In terms of fan base, it is UFC by a long shot, as the sport's popularity has taken off in recent years (albeit, mostly with men).

MLS has actually has declining attendance this year.

[Bill Cody]

Who knows what hte full story is, but it seems like he is being treated pretty poorly if the last straw for him was sitting down and having everyone leave. even amongst friends, that's kind of a dick thing to do if you aren't sitting right back down again or there is some other context to it.

Treating a fellow teammate like **** should come as a surprise but remember we are talking about Miami here

[K-Gun]

that's a joke, right?

no I meant it, and I also thinking cooking up orphans is a good rememdy for the reent food stamp reduction.

[Bill Cody]

no I meant it, and I also thinking cooking up orphans is a good rememdy for the reent food stamp reduction.

:1:

[DraftBoy]

No it isn't. I'm not sure what metric you are using, but the fastest growing sport in terms of participation is Lacrosse. In terms of fan base, it is UFC by a long shot, as the sport's popularity has taken off in recent years (albeit, mostly with men).

MLS has actually has declining attendance this year.

I haven't checked recently but I think the TV numbers are up across the board.

[ServoBillieves]

No one cares about soccer or a crying pussy in Miami. The only reason he gets attention is because of his "mental problem". I have a mental problem, and it's called being a Bills fan.

I can run a marathon and occasionally kick a ball too. I can play offensive tackle and get blown by just like Mr. Martin. This reminds me of Byrd getting paid $430K for having a little foot injury. Grow a pair, you play professional football. I have demons in my past, but I still go to both of my jobs. I get yelled at constantly at one of my jobs by drunk idiots who don't want to pay for parking, and I have brute mouthbreathers telling me what to do at my other job. I didn't go to therapy for it. God I hate the privileged. He is the epitome of a pussy. You PC morons can give a reach around to Barney. This is a weakling who refuses to follow through with his career choice. "OH GOD I WAS MADE FUN OF BY MY TEAMMATES! I SHOULD CALL ROGER!"

This guy is such a sissy it's hilarious. Piss on the Fish, and go Bills.

[better days]

I haven't checked recently but I think the TV numbers are up across the board.

My cousin has two sons that played soccer growing up.

At that time, in the late 80's early 90's people were saying soccer was going to GROW in this Country & when the kids playing it became adults, it would be their favorite sport & it would take over, dwarfing baseball & football in popularity.

Well, my cousins kids are now adults & they NEVER watch soccer. Soccer will NEVER be "THE" sport in this Country.

[BertSquirtgum]

Soccer is gay

[alohabillsfan]

This country is filling up with pussies and those that support pussies :)
Geez. Lighten up Francis !

[justasportsfan]

Bullying is not acceptable in the NFL. There should be a Bullying Awareness Month and all the players should wear yellow.

you mean teal & orange

[justasportsfan]

No one cares about soccer

the whole world does except the US

[better days]

the whole world does except the US

And let's not forget our Canadian brothers.

[justasportsfan]

And let's not forget our Canadian brothers.

well. they actually do what w tell them


:snicker:

[JoeMama]

What do you expect when the fastest growing sport in this country is soccer.

Soccer fans are way more violent and destructive than NFL fans.

I get why soccer is seen as a pussy sport in the US -- with all the flopping and euroboy haircuts -- but hardcore soccer fans will flat out riot, brawl, burn **** down and kill people at those games. A ref in Brazil got beheaded at a game earlier this year.

[BuffaloRedleg]

No one cares about soccer or a crying pussy in Miami. The only reason he gets attention is because of his "mental problem". I have a mental problem, and it's called being a Bills fan.

I can run a marathon and occasionally kick a ball too. I can play offensive tackle and get blown by just like Mr. Martin. This reminds me of Byrd getting paid $430K for having a little foot injury. Grow a pair, you play professional football. I have demons in my past, but I still go to both of my jobs. I get yelled at constantly at one of my jobs by drunk idiots who don't want to pay for parking, and I have brute mouthbreathers telling me what to do at my other job. I didn't go to therapy for it. God I hate the privileged. He is the epitome of a pussy. You PC morons can give a reach around to Barney. This is a weakling who refuses to follow through with his career choice. "OH GOD I WAS MADE FUN OF BY MY TEAMMATES! I SHOULD CALL ROGER!"

This guy is such a sissy it's hilarious. Piss on the Fish, and go Bills.

What if his mother has cancer and they made fun of him for that? What if it was because he was black? What if it is because he is gay? What if it wasn't just this one time, what if it was every single day for 5 months and he just couldn't take it anymore? It could be for a multitude of reasons. Whatever it is, it must have been so bad as to completely set him off. I love how we live in a culture where we blame the victim without question and let the *******s get off scott free.

It's all about context, and you have absolutely no clue what it is.

God I hate people like you so much. So so very much. He's not the pussy. You are the pussy for acting tough on an internet message board.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Soccer fans are way more violent and destructive than NFL fans.

I get why soccer is seen as a pussy sport in the US -- with all the flopping and euroboy haircuts -- but hardcore soccer fans will flat out riot, brawl, burn **** down and kill people at those games. A ref in Brazil got beheaded at a game earlier this year.

I watched the first giants/pats superbowl in Rome with a bunch of Irish hooligans. I got them to root for the Giants.

When the Giants won, they proceeded to start smashing shotglasses and beer bottles getting us kicked out of the bar. Whe outisde, they starting punch people's sideview mirrors off their cars.

Needless to say it was awesome, but I got outta there quick.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

I'm so sick of the PC police telling people what they can and cannot joke around about. The things that offend people these days is freakin appalling. And the pussification of America continues.

Wait. You're offended by what people say, and you want to be free to say what you think?

[JoeMama]

I watched the first giants/pats superbowl in Rome with a bunch of Irish hooligans. I got them to root for the Giants.

When the Giants won, they proceeded to start smashing shotglasses and beer bottles getting us kicked out of the bar. Whe outisde, they starting punch people's sideview mirrors off their cars.

Needless to say it was awesome, but I got outta there quick.

What total pieces of ****.

Vandals are as bad as thieves.

You work hard for something, pay for it, and somebody walks by and destroys it just because they can.

[JoeMama]

BTW, the NFL already has enough angry losers who show up to games pining for a fight. Life didn't work out the way they wanted, so they use gameday as an excuse to get blasted and throw down over something trifling in order to vent whatever failures plague their shame of life.

And soccer fans are even worse than those losers. Hard to imagine.

I love our national teams but I almost hope US soccer stays under the radar so it doesn't attract the crazies like it does internationally.

[Mace]

When I read the detail behind the Martin thing, or the reported detail, all I could think was that any head coach worth a crap ends the shenanigans day one of regular season when the team becomes a band of brothers. If he doesn't, the team isn't going to amount to anything whatever. If the vet leaders don't end it, the team isn't going anywhere. If the staff doesn't know about it, the team isn't going anywhere. They aren't a team.

I don't know if Martin is messed up, or just overly aggravated at facing "high school freshman in a new school" stuff considering the stakes and salaries and short shelf life of pro athletes, but I'd bet Philbin's Dolphins are on the way to out of control and their next rebuilding.

Just imagine the Bills, for all their injury replacements, making it worse on any starter like that when they're trying to accomplish something. And a starting tackle when the QB who you're banking on is prone to turnovers when beaten up ?

I was going to think out loud Incognito had something to do with this, just looked him up, and now see he's being associated with it. Astounding !

Turn out the lights on this version of Miami. Matter of time.

[Skooby]

Richie has something to do with this I heard, the dude just is Trouble (with a capital T).

[Meathead]

This country is filling up with pussies and those that support pussies!

viva le pussilanche!

[Bill Cody]

When the Giants won, they proceeded to start smashing shotglasses and beer bottles getting us kicked out of the bar. Whe outisde, they starting punch people's sideview mirrors off their cars.

Needless to say it was awesome, but I got outta there quick.
this post is a douchebag

[pmoon6]

Damn, the guy got made fun of in an NFL LOCKER ROOM. I thought it was the last bastion of manhood left in America.

I guess we have a kinder, gentler NFL. Heaven forbid he would have been mocked for wearing women's panties or being gay.

[DraftBoy]

Damn, the guy got made fun of in an NFL LOCKER ROOM. I thought it was the last bastion of manhood left in America.

I guess we have a kinder, gentler NFL. Heaven forbid he would have been mocked for wearing women's panties or being gay.

What exactly is manly about making fun of somebody to the point where you drive them into a mental/emotional breakdown?

[pmoon6]

What exactly is manly about making fun of somebody to the point where you drive them into a mental/emotional breakdown?Oh c'mon. Have you ever been it a football locker room?

I would have to say that Martin had to be way off anyway to let some hazing throw him over the brink.

[better days]

Oh c'mon. Have you ever been it a football locker room?

I would have to say that Martin had to be way off anyway to let some hazing throw him over the brink.

Martin should have beaten the crap out of Incognito, or at least attempted to do so.

[HAMMER]

Oh c'mon. Have you ever been it a football locker room?

I would have to say that Martin had to be way off anyway to let some hazing throw him over the brink.

So you are saying he likely "had to be way off anyway" and you think it's OK for others to exploit that? Not so nice are you?

[JohnnyGold]

I watched the first giants/pats superbowl in Rome with a bunch of Irish hooligans. I got them to root for the Giants.

When the Giants won, they proceeded to start smashing shotglasses and beer bottles getting us kicked out of the bar. Whe outisde, they starting punch people's sideview mirrors off their cars.

Needless to say it was awesome, but I got outta there quick.

HA!

I watched the opening game between the Bills and the Pats in Rome, where did you watch?

Scholars pub for me...

[pmoon6]

So you are saying he likely "had to be way off anyway" and you think it's OK for others to exploit that? Not so nice are you?How could they know he had mental problems? I'm sure you know people that seem OK and some trigger sets them off.

What do the neighbors say when somebody shoots up the office or kills their spouse and children?

"God, he/she seemed like a normal person".

Cry me a river, bunch of pussies.

P.S. I never said I was nice.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Martin should have beaten the crap out of Incognito, or at least attempted to do so.

Walking away from the team is one thing, but starting a melee in the cafeteria?

[Mr. Pink]

Walking away from the team is one thing, but starting a melee in the cafeteria?

Overreaction is okay as long as you overreact in a tough fashion!

Didn't you know? :rofl:

[Dr. Lecter]

How could they know he had mental problems? I'm sure you know people that seem OK and some trigger sets them off.

What do the neighbors say when somebody shoots up the office or kills their spouse and children?

"God, he/she seemed like a normal person".

Cry me a river, bunch of pussies.

P.S. I never said I was nice.
Why does it matter if he did or not?

Why is being a dick/******* OK in the first place?

There is quite a difference between teasing and driving somebody to this,

[Mace]

Oh c'mon. Have you ever been it a football locker room?

I would have to say that Martin had to be way off anyway to let some hazing throw him over the brink.

I've never hear of hazing starting veterans though, especially people you need to protect your turnover prone young QB. Martin is in his second year. Come to think, I've never heard of hazing during the regular season. Once the season starts, band of brothers.

I don't really think this is about locker room joshing. It's flat out counterproductive to any team trying to build something.

If you really think about it, how dumb would it be to allow hazing of Alonso, Goodwin, Woods, and Manuel during the regular season, much less veteran starters. I think you're off base on the boys will be boys in this case, no matter what's going on with Martin.

[jaybo_05]

What if his mother has cancer and they made fun of him for that? What if it was because he was black? What if it is because he is gay? What if it wasn't just this one time, what if it was every single day for 5 months and he just couldn't take it anymore? It could be for a multitude of reasons. Whatever it is, it must have been so bad as to completely set him off. I love how we live in a culture where we blame the victim without question and let the *******s get off scott free.

It's all about context, and you have absolutely no clue what it is.

God I hate people like you so much. So so very much. He's not the pussy. You are the pussy for acting tough on an internet message board.

You also have no clue what the context is and are equally guilty of jumping to the conclusion that his teammates are wholly responsible. We can't deny that whatever they did "set him off," but due to the fact that none of us have access to the details (a point which you yourself have emphasized) you have no grounds from which to level the judgment that whatever they did was "so bad". If you're uncomfortable blaming the victim without question you ought to be equally uncomfortable vindicating him.

[pmoon6]

Why does it matter if he did or not?

Why is being a dick/******* OK in the first place?

There is quite a difference between teasing and driving somebody to this,Because once again the PC pansies jump all over themselves to defend Martin because of his reaction. I'm presenting an alternative.

Sounds to me like the team is keeping a tight lid on the event and what actually happened. Maybe there will be forthcoming information, but I doubt it considering the current NFL.

BTW Doc, did you recruit the pansies or is this what has become of the Bills' Fanbase?

[Dr. Lecter]

Because once again the PC pansies jump all over themselves to defend Martin because of his reaction. I'm presenting an alternative.

Sounds to me like the team is keeping a tight lid on the event and what actually happened. Maybe there will be forthcoming information, but I doubt it considering the current NFL.

BTW Doc, did you recruit the pansies or is this what has become of the Bills' Fanbase?
Alternatives are not always viable. And not being able to handle what was going on does not make him a pansy.

And of course they are. There are lots of reasons for that - including legal ones and potentially civil ones.

And I recruited them. I was lonely.

[pmoon6]

Maybe we should blame the parents and the school system of the last 30 odd years. Raising coddled little tykes and making nurturing their precious self esteem paramount doesn't seem to have worked.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tgcA8WUK1qM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Mace]

Maybe we should blame the parents and the school system of the last 30 odd years. Raising coddled little tykes and making nurturing their precious self esteem paramount doesn't seem to have worked.


<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tgcA8WUK1qM" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

Well, if you want to get into the nuts and bolts of it....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKXpjor2dgk

But what does that do to your team when you have players fighting in the cafeteria. Stafford gives Suh the time proven locker room playfully mean towel snap out of the shower....Haha Ndamukong, made you jump.....

[DraftBoy]

Oh c'mon. Have you ever been it a football locker room?

I would have to say that Martin had to be way off anyway to let some hazing throw him over the brink.

Been in 100's in a number of different capacities. Player, graduate assistance, Coaching, Press...never dealt with anything like whats being reported here. Some innocent teasing and dick jokes but nothing that was consistent or in the nature that Martin reportedly suffered. That's a team wide failure, the coaches or team captains have to step in and put an end to that before it becomes what it has become. You have to recognize each individual persons needs and protect them.

[Mike13]

Its a very strange story.

[BuffaloRedleg]

HA!

I watched the opening game between the Bills and the Pats in Rome, where did you watch?

Scholars pub for me...

Is Scholars the American pub? I remember there 99% Americans there. Really strange.

[pmoon6]

Been in 100's in a number of different capacities. Player, graduate assistance, Coaching, Press...never dealt with anything like whats being reported here. Some innocent teasing and dick jokes but nothing that was consistent or in the nature that Martin reportedly suffered. That's a team wide failure, the coaches or team captains have to step in and put an end to that before it becomes what it has become. You have to recognize each individual persons needs and protect them.I find it interesting that 300 lb twentysomethings somehow need to be "protected".

[Famous Amos]

Its not fair to anyone to have to be the whipping boy in a locker room and to have put up with it because you have to be macho and show that it doesnt affect you. I suppose sports are only for alpha males huh.

[Famous Amos]

You got a guy like Richie Incognito who is a scum bag and as ass hole. He's picking on the guy not to be funny or whatever ass holes do that for but because he gets some sort of pleasure or satisfaction seeing the reaction Martin has when he's picked on. There are people out there that take it too far because that's the kind of people they are. Some people are innately mean spirited.

[better days]

Maybe we should blame the parents and the school system of the last 30 odd years. Raising coddled little tykes and making nurturing their precious self esteem paramount doesn't seem to have worked.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tgcA8WUK1qM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

It's the estrogen in the milk from the hormones given the cows that the kids are drinking.

[starrymessenger]

Martin should have beaten the crap out of Incognito, or at least attempted to do so.
You're absolutely right. Incognito, Pauncey, I can see those guys giving a nice Stanford boy from the ideal high character American family background a rough time.
Im not surprised that bullying exists in the NFL, even if it's probably not of common occurrence.
There is certainly nothing unusual about it on sports teams. Like you say, the most effective way to deal with it is to stand up and confront the perp. Bullies look for guys they think won't push back. There was a guy on my high school football team who had me figured for a good target. Not sure why except I was a quiet kid and maybe a bit of a nerd. I took it for awhile then in a practice once he was struggling to break free from a lineman who was holding him up. He didn't see me coming and was perfectly set up. I flew at his head. Completely over the top for a hit in practice. He wound up in hospital with a concussion. Dude never bothered me again. To my surprise my teammates went out of their way to congratulate me.

[pmoon6]

I suppose sports are only for alpha males huh.And it seems sports message boards are mostly for the guys who got cut the first day of practice or were afraid to go out for a team at all.

Thuch thenthitive thouls.

[stuckincincy]

And it seems sports message boards are mostly for the guys who got cut the first day of practice or were afraid to go out for a team at all.

Thuch thenthitive thouls.

I was on a rifle team. A skill for the ages... :drive:

[Mike13]

You got a guy like Richie Incognito who is a scum bag and as ass hole. He's picking on the guy not to be funny or whatever ass holes do that for but because he gets some sort of pleasure or satisfaction seeing the reaction Martin has when he's picked on. There are people out there that take it too far because that's the kind of people they are. Some people are innately mean spirited.

Its actually looking like the claims by Schfter against Incognito are once again false. That's the second time this year ESPN essentially put a hit piece out on Incognito. I'd be surprised if he didn't take legal action.

[pmoon6]

Its actually looking like the claims by Schfter against Incognito are once again false. That's the second time this year ESPN essentially put a hit piece out on Incognito. I'd be surprised if he didn't take legal action.Good luck to Incognito with that.

[Mike13]

I'm not saying a class action law suit against ESPN, just Schefter. You can see the twitter log here, (https://twitter.com/thephinsider/status/397026964403265536/photo/1/large?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=thephinsider&utm_content=397026964403265536)

[pmoon6]

I'm not saying a class action law suit against ESPN, just Schefter. You can see the twitter log here, (https://twitter.com/thephinsider/status/397026964403265536/photo/1/large?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=thephinsider&utm_content=397026964403265536)I would think ESPN will try to protect one of their reporters and enlist the help of their friends in the NFL. It would be all backdoor stuff, of course, but Incognito is a very dirty player and small infractions could draw fines. In other words, they would leverage poor Ritchie to keep his mouth shut.

Also, Shefter can argue that he got bad information from a undisclosed source. That's if he is even wrong. Why did Incognito subtly apologize to Martin. That would also hurt any civil case.

Like I said, it's hard to speculate. The veil of the NFL has dropped and we will probably never know.

[DraftBoy]

Dolphins have banned Incognito from their facilities.

[DraftBoy]

I find it interesting that 300 lb twentysomethings somehow need to be "protected".

What does their weight have to do with anything I wrote? You're deflecting.

[SpikedLemonade]

Sounds like much trouble in that locker room.

[Novacane]

Its actually looking like the claims by Schfter against Incognito are once again false. That's the second time this year ESPN essentially put a hit piece out on Incognito. I'd be surprised if he didn't take legal action.


So much for Incognitos lawsuit.

[Forward_Lateral]

Incognito is the biggest d-bag in the NFL. Dirty on and off the field. I'm surprised no D-lineman has taken his knee out yet.

[pmoon6]

What does their weight have to do with anything I wrote? You're deflecting.What? He could crush your head like grape. Look man, I'm not anywhere near as big, but one of the clichés from my youth was "Don't take any ****". Martin is perfectly capable of standing up for himself. Another cliché "You don't have to stand tall, but you do have to stand up".

I believe some of this is the product of our current culture. Call authorities if you are being picked on. "Please feel sorry for me because I'm a victim".

Boo ****ing Hoo.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Martin forced the issue. He should get credit for a sack.

[pmoon6]

Martin forced the issue. He should get credit for a sack.Too bad he only was giving them up on the field.

[MikeInRoch]

Its actually looking like the claims by Schfter against Incognito are once again false. That's the second time this year ESPN essentially put a hit piece out on Incognito. I'd be surprised if he didn't take legal action.

Not looking so much like that now...

[pmoon6]

"I can assure you that I had no intention of being either harsh or cruel in my treatment of the... player in question. My sole purpose was to try to restore in him some sense of appreciation of his obligations as a man and as a player. "If one could shame a coward," I felt, "one might help him to regain his self-respect." This was on my mind. Now, I freely admit that my method was wrong, but I hope you can understand my motive. And that you will accept this explanation... and this... apology."~ Ritchie Incognito in his upcoming press conference

...Oh Wait.

[Mike13]

Martin forced the issue. He should get credit for a sack.

If Martin causes a sack with no QB around to protect, Does Tannehill still tear his labrum?

[DraftBoy]

What? He could crush your head like grape. Look man, I'm not anywhere near as big, but one of the clichés from my youth was "Don't take any ****". Martin is perfectly capable of standing up for himself. Another cliché "You don't have to stand tall, but you do have to stand up".

I believe some of this is the product of our current culture. Call authorities if you are being picked on. "Please feel sorry for me because I'm a victim".

Boo ****ing Hoo.

All cliches that are false based on their very premise.

Being tough, which is essentially what you're getting at, is far more about being smart than just being a yahoo who wants to throw down every time somebody says a sideways word to them.

[DraftBoy]

Some of the details;
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9924206/miami-dolphins-suspend-richie-incognito-indefinitely-connection-jonathan-martin-incident


ources told ESPN that one of the significant allegations being reviewed is that Incognito got Martin to contribute $15,000 to help finance a trip to Las Vegas by some teammates last summer, even though Martin preferred not to travel with the group.

Rather than go, Martin simply gave Incognito the $15,000, sources told ESPN, fearing the consequences if he did not hand over the money.

One source said there are other instances of intimidation captured in text messages and at least one demeaning voice mail. In addition, some of the messages were racially charged in nature, according to ESPN and media reports. The alleged racial aspect of the communication was first reported by Fox Sports. Also, Martin's recent reported text communications with Incognito that indicated he did not hold the guard responsible for his absence were sent out of fear of retribution, sources told ESPN.

Incognito, who has been a part of the Dolphins' six-player leadership council, started all eight games for the Dolphins (4-4).

[The King]

Not looking so much like that now...
Here are quotes from his VM's to Martin.




Adam Schefter ‏<s style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); ">@</s>AdamSchefter (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter)<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px; ">13m (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/397413175571664896)</small>
4. Incognito to Martin, all on same VM in April 2013: "(Expletive) you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."



Reply (https://twitter.com/#)
Retweet (https://twitter.com/#)
Favorite (https://twitter.com/#)
<b style="color: inherit; "><button type="button" class="btn-link with-icn dropdown-toggle js-dropdown-toggle js-tooltip" aria-haspopup="true" style="border: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 8px; padding: 0px; background-color: transparent; cursor: pointer; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; -webkit-box-shadow: none; box-shadow: none; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); "> More</button></b>


Expand (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/397413175571664896)




https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000374341171/25971ef2abdc48c057105d32e5f1f58d_normal.jpegAdam Schefter ‏<s style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); ">@</s>AdamSchefter (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter)<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px; ">14m (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/397412981857738752)</small>
3. Incognito VM to Martin: "(I'm going to) slap your (expletive) mouth. (I'm going to) slap your real mother across the face (laughter).



Reply (https://twitter.com/#)
Retweet (https://twitter.com/#)
Favorite (https://twitter.com/#)
<b style="color: rgb(47, 194, 239); "><button type="button" class="btn-link with-icn dropdown-toggle js-dropdown-toggle js-tooltip" aria-haspopup="true" style="border: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 8px; padding: 0px; background-color: transparent; cursor: pointer; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; -webkit-box-shadow: none; box-shadow: none; color: rgb(221, 221, 221); "> More</button></b>


Expand (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/397412981857738752)




https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000374341171/25971ef2abdc48c057105d32e5f1f58d_normal.jpegAdam Schefter ‏<s style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); ">@</s>AdamSchefter (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter)<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px; ">15m (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/397412847207993345)</small>
2. More Incognito to Martin: "I saw you on Twitter, you been training ten weeks. (I want to) (expletive) in your (expl) mouth....



Reply (https://twitter.com/#)
Retweet (https://twitter.com/#)
Favorite (https://twitter.com/#)
<b style="color: rgb(47, 194, 239); "><button type="button" class="btn-link with-icn dropdown-toggle js-dropdown-toggle js-tooltip" aria-haspopup="true" style="border: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 8px; padding: 0px; background-color: transparent; cursor: pointer; border-top-left-radius: 0px; border-top-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-right-radius: 0px; border-bottom-left-radius: 0px; -webkit-box-shadow: none; box-shadow: none; color: rgb(221, 221, 221); "> More</button></b>


Expand (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/397412847207993345)




https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000374341171/25971ef2abdc48c057105d32e5f1f58d_normal.jpegAdam Schefter ‏<s style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); ">@</s>AdamSchefter (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter)<small class="time" style="font-size: 12px; color: rgb(187, 187, 187); position: relative; float: right; margin-top: 1px; ">16m (https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/397412643767455744)</small>
1: Richie Incognito left this VM for Jonathan Martin in April 2013: "Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of (expletive)...

[trapezeus]

extortion and racial jabs? all the guys are right. Martin should have toughened up. because everyone else would have taken to this real well.

good for martin to get this kind of crap out into the open.

people like incognito should be punished and people who want to earn a decent living shouldn't have to deal with it.

[BleedinGreenNC]

What a circus!!

[DraftBoy]

What a Grade A Dbag.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well that validates Nix for releasing him, for sure.

[Albany,n.y.]

Well that validates Nix for releasing him, for sure.

Never released him, just didn't re-sign him when he was a FA.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Never released him, just didn't re-sign him when he was a FA.

He was a restricted FA who Nix chose not to tender. The exact specifics are irrelevant, the point is we held his rights and let him walk, and it was the correct decision.

[Albany,n.y.]

He was a restricted FA who Nix chose not to tender. The exact specifics are irrelevant, the point is we held his rights and let him walk, and it was the correct decision.

He was an unrestricted FA who walked-we had no rights to him when his contract expired.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

He was an unrestricted FA who walked-we had no rights to him when his contract expired.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Bills-tender-four-RFAs/2ea85047-ac11-4710-bac0-3d806af1582a


Not tendered
Those restricted free agents that were not tendered qualifying contract offers by the Bills include QB Gibran Hamdan, G Richie Incognito, TE Joe Klopfenstein and OT Jonathan Scott.

[Albany,n.y.]

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Bills-tender-four-RFAs/2ea85047-ac11-4710-bac0-3d806af1582a

Obviously I was wrong, sorry. I still can't figure out why he was restricted since he was drafted in 2005 & while he was on non football injury list in 2005, he played for the entire 2006-9 seasons. That's at least 4 years active (he was on IR but I don't think that affects free agency) which makes a player a UFA. I know you're right because all the articles say what your article says ,but why was he restricted?

[trapezeus]

and if this all happened to the patriots, the pats would play with incognito and say its a closed case until the end of the year.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Obviously I was wrong, sorry. I still can't figure out why he was restricted since he was drafted in 2005 & while he was on non football injury list in 2005, he played for the entire 2006-9 seasons. That's at least 4 years active (he was on IR but I don't think that affects free agency) which makes a player a UFA. I know you're right because all the articles say what your article says ,but why was he restricted?

Ya got me. Somehow he didn't accrue an additional season or something. Maybe it had something to do with him being waived while on an RFA contract.

[Joe Fo Sho]

extortion and racial jabs? all the guys are right. Martin should have toughened up. because everyone else would have taken to this real well.

good for martin to get this kind of crap out into the open.

people like incognito should be punished and people who want to earn a decent living shouldn't have to deal with it.

Clearly his best course of action was to quit.

[DraftBoy]

Tim Keown takes the "tough" mentality crowd to task...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9926888/miami-dolphins-kept-richie-incognito-control


Even now, even after the extent of Incognito's viciousness has been revealed through voice mails and texts to Martin, there are NFL personnel people telling reporters, like Sports Illustrated's Jim Trotter, that it's a man's game and Martin failed to handle it like a man. According to these unnamed men, Martin should have manned up and handled the situation face-to-face, with his fists if necessary.

You know -- like a man.

Seriously, though, did these men's men read the things Incognito reportedly said to Martin? Don't we encourage people not to deal with the deranged, to let the professionals handle it? Does anyone believe Incognito would be cowed by a confrontation?

NY Jets LB Bart Scott (who is known for being an ******* on the field) said this;

Bart Scott told Stephen A. Smith and Ryan Ruocco on ESPN New York, "Thank God he walked away. They've got to be thankful he didn't bring a gun to work."

[Generalissimus Gibby]

What do you expect when the fastest growing sport in this country is soccer.

FYI, soccer has both started and interrupted wars. Its actually very badass.

[OpIv37]

and if this all happened to the patriots, the pats would play with incognito and say its a closed case until the end of the year.

Well now, that depends. If the recipient of the insults was a S/Ter and the perpetrator was Gronkowski, they'd do exactly what you said.

If Gronk was the one receiving the insults, they'd cut the S/Ter in three seconds flat.

Basically, they decide what's right and wrong by what helps them win because they're the kinds of douches who don't understand that some things are more important than football.

[JoeMama]

I always knew Richie Incognito was a dick. His reputation for cheap shots and trash talking precedes him.

But I assumed he was a dick to players on the other team. Not his own.

I wanted the Bills to hang on to him after 2009 but I can see why we politely declined.

[Mike13]

I keep reading that the Dolphins will cut him within the next few days.

[Mr. Pink]

This guys career is now over.

No one will want him anywhere near their locker room.

[JoeMama]

The people who think Jonathan Martin is a pussy would probably shrivel and wilt and keep that opinion to themselves if they met him one on one.

It's easy to call people pussies behind a keyboard.

[JoeMama]

This guys career is now over.

No one will want him anywhere near their locker room.

And this is a case where being blacklisted seems completely fair.

You do it to yourself...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-_qMagfZtv8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[coastal]

My wife once had her boss jokingly threaten to bring a gun to the next meeting his bosses had.

she went to the owner and HR of the company. One of the questions they asked her was, "any chance he was just joking?"

her response was great... "It's not my job to know whether or not he was joking."

the NFL might be entertainment... but it's a work place.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Tim Keown takes the "tough" mentality crowd to task...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9926888/miami-dolphins-kept-richie-incognito-control

I would very much like to see how they would have responded if Martin actually starting punching Incognito out on the practice field. Something tells me the word "thug" would have made its way into the conversation.

Anyway, this is getting passed around from the Dolphins-Bengals Halloween game program, possibly the last Incognito will ever play.


http://static03.mediaite.com/sportsgrid/uploads/2013/11/j0yVUmu.jpg

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

This guys career is now over.

No one will want him anywhere near their locker room.

Eh... That'sprobably what some said of rRiley Cooper a few months back. He's weathered that storm pretty well

[JoeMama]

Eh... That'sprobably what some said of rRiley Cooper a few months back. He's weathered that storm pretty well

Getting hammered at a Kenny Chesney concert is the perfect place to drop the N-bomb.

Most people will forgive an inebriated white boy for racially charged profanities, but not so much for Martin.

Angry white male fans (the NFL's backbone) see what he did as cowardice.

[JATMtheJATM]

i think we can all agree this isnt just your run-of-the-mill teasing and making fun of. sounds like incognito is bat**** crazy. and it also sounds like his dad is running around on message boards in secret trying to restore incognitos name and saying what a piece of crap martin is and how he deserves it. ill try to pull up the deadspin article.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Getting hammered at a Kenny Chesney concert is the perfect place to drop the N-bomb.

Most people will forgive an inebriated white boy for racially charged profanities, but not so much for Martin.


.you mean incognito not Martin correct?




Angry white male fans (the NFL's backbone) see what he did as cowardice.

[JATMtheJATM]

http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230

here it is.

[BertSquirtgum]

My wife once had her boss jokingly threaten to bring a gun to the next meeting his bosses had.

she went to the owner and HR of the company. One of the questions they asked her was, "any chance he was just joking?"

her response was great... "It's not my job to know whether or not he was joking."

the NFL might be entertainment... but it's a work place.

Why did you wife go to HR if he "jokingly" said it?

[BuffaloRedleg]

http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230

here it is.

Oh my god that is classic. Great find.

[JoeMama]

No, kscdogbillsfan1221, I mean Martin.

Angry white males offer no pity for Jonathan Martin and the insane BS he had to deal with at the workplace. They relate more to the white trash loser, Incognito, and consider him the good guy in all this because Martin couldn't handle it anymore.

I've seen co-workers fired for far less than Incognito did.

The guy is a sociopath, plain and simple.

His behavior in the regular world would lead to unemployment if he were this unpleasant to co-workers.

I don't even care about the bullying stuff that much, but most NFL players are men grown, and should act accordingly. RI is such a punk who thinks being a piece of **** somehow makes him tougher.

All it does is make him look like a total *****. If I'm Martin, I'd pack my bags and go somewhere else. I wouldn't want to deal with N1GGER this and N1GGER that, and I'm going to **** down your throat, and I'm going to ****ing kill you.

Incognito is an overgrown bully who has no place in a league full of adults.

[WagonCircler]

Angry white males offer no pity for Jonathan Martin and the insane BS he had to deal with at the workplace. They relate more to the white trash loser, Incognito, and consider him the good guy in all this because Martin couldn't handle it anymore.

Generalize much?

Pure *******cking pantywaste poseur outrage.

Do you feel better now, trashing your imaginary group based on their skin color?

That's racism, isn't it?

The irony is so thick you could stir it with a spoon.

By the way, I always wondered why the Bills didn't re-sign Incognito. Now we know that it's because he's a douchebag.

You're not far behind, though.

[cookie G]

I caught the ESPN pre game panel on this earlier tonight. On a subject like this..there is a good blend of management, coaching and players of different eras. I liked the perspective. Some of the memories may have been a little foggy, and part of it might have been NFL corporate speak...but the voice mails/emails/whatever were universally condemned. No one even said somthing like...well he might have went over the line a bit.

Polian...(exec for 3 decades)...I thought he gave some good responses. When asked by Berman how he handled problems like this, he cut him off. He said, "I never had a problem like this". He said he was never much into hazing, he believed in Bill Walsh's philosophy, that you bring in players to help your team, and tearing them down isn't productive. He went on to say that players understood that certain things were taboo. Race and threats were 2 of them. And he said with taboo things..if you crossed the line, it was understood that you wouldn't be recrossing the line.

Ditka- (Player in the 60's, coach in the 80s) - said a problem like this never reached him..because he had a good group of leaders among his players. He said they were the ones who did the policing of things like hazing and harassment. He said his leaders were really good at nipping things in the bud, before they got bad. Whoever they were, he sounded proud of them.

Tom Jackson (player in the 70s).. don't remember much of what he said..but when he brought up the fact that some people might think this is normal behavior in the NFL...Meshawn Johnson, Chris Carter and Jackson all went off at the same time. "No it is NOT normal behavior" was the common statement.

Chris Carter also mentioned the player leader role. He said he was expected to be a leader, and Dennis Green would question him on it...he'd say things like.."How's Randy Moss coming on his playbook, is he getting up in the morning, have you taken him to dinner yet?" He was also big on the threat. He said, "IF someone in the NFL says he's going to kill you..you have a right to take it seriously."

Someone mentioned to Polian that Polian didn't have a problem like that because of the players he chose. Maybe, maybe not...but Incognito WAS on the Colts' "do not draft due to character concerns" list.

There wasn't really talk of whether it was acceptable..it was who is responsible for letting it occur. Most really saw it as a players' responsibility primarily, the leaders are the ones that should take the first action.

I'll say one thing..since the voice mails/emails/whatever came out...no one's mentioning Jonathan Martin any more.. Its all on Ingcognito now.

[WagonCircler]

I caught the ESPN pre game panel on this earlier tonight. On a subject like this..there is a good blend of management, coaching and players of different eras. I liked the perspective. Some of the memories may have been a little foggy, and part of it might have been NFL corporate speak...but the voice mails/emails/whatever were universally condemned. No one even said somthing like...well he might have went over the line a bit.

Polian...(exec for 3 decades)...I thought he gave some good responses. When asked by Berman how he handled problems like this, he cut him off. He said, "I never had a problem like this". He said he was never much into hazing, he believed in Bill Walsh's philosophy, that you bring in players to help your team, and tearing them down isn't productive. He went on to say that players understood that certain things were taboo. Race and threats were 2 of them. And he said with taboo things..if you crossed the line, it was understood that you wouldn't be recrossing the line.

Ditka- (Player in the 60's, coach in the 80s) - said a problem like this never reached him..because he had a good group of leaders among his players. He said they were the ones who did the policing of things like hazing and harassment. He said his leaders were really good at nipping things in the bud, before they got bad. Whoever they were, he sounded proud of them.

Tom Jackson (player in the 70s).. don't remember much of what he said..but when he brought up the fact that some people might think this is normal behavior in the NFL...Meshawn Johnson, Chris Carter and Jackson all went off at the same time. "No it is NOT normal behavior" was the common statement.

Chris Carter also mentioned the player leader role. He said he was expected to be a leader, and Dennis Green would question him on it...he'd say things like.."How's Randy Moss coming on his playbook, is he getting up in the morning, have you taken him to dinner yet?" He was also big on the threat. He said, "IF someone in the NFL says he's going to kill you..you have a right to take it seriously."

Someone mentioned to Polian that Polian didn't have a problem like that because of the players he chose. Maybe, maybe not...but Incognito WAS on the Colts' "do not draft due to character concerns" list.

There wasn't really talk of whether it was acceptable..it was who is responsible for letting it occur. Most really saw it as a players' responsibility primarily, the leaders are the ones that should take the first action.

I'll say one thing..since the voice mails/emails/whatever came out...no one's mentioning Jonathan Martin any more.. Its all on Ingcognito now.

This reflects almost as poorly on the character of the Dolphins organization as it does on Idiotcognito. There's no way other players didn't know this was going on, and their tolerating it is sickening and sad. And if the coaching staff didn't know about it, or if they created an atmosphere that allowed this type of thing to happen, then they've failed and should be fired.

[Rockstar]

I’m going to bring this up only for arguments/conversation sake. Let it be known that I am completely against anyone using the N-bomb. Even African Americans, the word drives me crazy. So Ingcognito is an A-Hole for going there and he is a dirty bastard in general. I wouldn’t want him on my team and I definitely think the league should take a look at this, it affects their product adversely. </SPAN>

All that being said Freddie Coleman who is and awesome and respected talk show host on ESPN radio was talking about this situation as I drove to my hockey game tonight. He made a really interesting point that I haven’t heard anywhere else. </SPAN>

Let me state for those that don’t know that Freddie is not white. I don’t know if he is African, Malato or what, but he isn’t white. Freddy played three sound clips of African American (Freddie specifically stated that they were African) players for the Miami Dolphins. They all stuck up for Ingcognito. I was shocked at what I was hearing. </SPAN>

Then Freddie goes on a tirade and states that although Ingcognito is completely out of line for dropping the N-bomb why haven’t any players come to the verbal aid of the offended lineman Jonathan Martin? Yet African American players are supporting Ingcognito? He also stated that Ingcognito was voted this year by teammates to be a member of the Dolphins player council. </SPAN>

Freddie Coleman went on to say it’s clear to him that Ingcognito was a player that would have the back of his teammates and Jonathan Martin wouldn’t and that is why nobody is coming out supporting Martin. </SPAN>

I have a feeling that this story is going to evolve further (as these stories always do) Joe Mama might have to take back his white guilt on this one if this story continues down this road. </SPAN>

[coastal]

Why did you wife go to HR if he "jokingly" said it?it wasn't just a casual funny statement.

thats why she went to HR.

That's just a question she ran into as part of the investigation. I liked her response.

[chernobylwraiths]

Let me state for those that don’t know that Freddie is not white. I don’t know if he is African, Malato or what, but he isn’t white. Freddy played three sound clips of African American (Freddie specifically stated that they were African) players for the Miami Dolphins. They all stuck up for Ingcognito. I was shocked at what I was hearing. </SPAN>

Then Freddie goes on a tirade and states that although Ingcognito is completely out of line for dropping the N-bomb why haven’t any players come to the verbal aid of the offended lineman Jonathan Martin? Yet African American players are supporting Ingcognito? He also stated that Ingcognito was voted this year by teammates to be a member of the Dolphins player council. </SPAN>

Freddie Coleman went on to say it’s clear to him that Ingcognito was a player that would have the back of his teammates and Jonathan Martin wouldn’t and that is why nobody is coming out supporting Martin.

Maybe because the Dolphins are a team of aholes?

[better days]

it wasn't just a casual funny statement.

thats why she went to HR.

That's just a question she ran into as part of the investigation. I liked her response.

From what you wrote it was CLEARLY a JOKE.

Your wife OVER REACTED.

[better days]

Maybe because the Dolphins are a team of aholes?

The Fins are a team of ROOKIES, YOUNG players & Vet Free Agents that were not on the team last year & really have no bond with the other players.

NO REAL leadership on that team at all. That is a big problem with a mass signing of FA's.

And it should be clear to all now why Igcognito is no longer a Bill in spite of his talent.

[DraftBoy]

For those that watched the Dolphins Hard Knocks series on HBO two years ago you may remember one of the things Philbin did when starting there was institute a player's leadership committee to handle internal issues and be a sounding board to the coaching staff and management for players who had something to say. Icognito was a part of that leadership council this year, which says a lot about the Dolphins and their coaching staff.

Mike Wallace said yesterday that he didn't think anything was over the line. TMZ has video of Icognito and Pouncey somewhere and Icognito calling Pouncey "My ******". This will likely end up costing Ireland and/or Philbin their jobs.

[DraftBoy]

I’m going to bring this up only for arguments/conversation sake. Let it be known that I am completely against anyone using the N-bomb. Even African Americans, the word drives me crazy. So Ingcognito is an A-Hole for going there and he is a dirty bastard in general. I wouldn’t want him on my team and I definitely think the league should take a look at this, it affects their product adversely. </SPAN>

All that being said Freddie Coleman who is and awesome and respected talk show host on ESPN radio was talking about this situation as I drove to my hockey game tonight. He made a really interesting point that I haven’t heard anywhere else. </SPAN>

Let me state for those that don’t know that Freddie is not white. I don’t know if he is African, Malato or what, but he isn’t white. Freddy played three sound clips of African American (Freddie specifically stated that they were African) players for the Miami Dolphins. They all stuck up for Ingcognito. I was shocked at what I was hearing. </SPAN>

Then Freddie goes on a tirade and states that although Ingcognito is completely out of line for dropping the N-bomb why haven’t any players come to the verbal aid of the offended lineman Jonathan Martin? Yet African American players are supporting Ingcognito? He also stated that Ingcognito was voted this year by teammates to be a member of the Dolphins player council. </SPAN>

Freddie Coleman went on to say it’s clear to him that Ingcognito was a player that would have the back of his teammates and Jonathan Martin wouldn’t and that is why nobody is coming out supporting Martin. </SPAN>

I have a feeling that this story is going to evolve further (as these stories always do) Joe Mama might have to take back his white guilt on this one if this story continues down this road. </SPAN>

Do you remember the bully from your school? Do you remember how he always had people around him to support him or protect him? Same principle here. I don't buy much into what the Dolphins players are saying or not saying.

[coastal]

From what you wrote it was CLEARLY a JOKE.

Your wife OVER REACTED.
I should have put jokingly in quotes, because it was much more serious of a situation than i originally posted.

She used to be in accounting. He was stealing from the company and it was starting to come out.

he was venting to her about all of it.

two days later, he was gone.

she didn't overreact. She did the right thing.

[better days]

I should have put jokingly in quotes, because it was much more serious of a situation than i originally posted.

She used to be in accounting. He was stealing from the company and it was starting to come out.

he was venting to her about all of it.

two days later, he was gone.

she didn't overreact. She did the right thing.

OK, this sounds much different from your original post on the subject.

[JoeMama]

Generalize much?

Pure *******cking pantywaste poseur outrage.

Do you feel better now, trashing your imaginary group based on their skin color?

That's racism, isn't it?

The irony is so thick you could stir it with a spoon.

By the way, I always wondered why the Bills didn't re-sign Incognito. Now we know that it's because he's a douchebag.

You're not far behind, though.

I don't know...

Based on the stuff I've read on various forums and user commentary sections on football websites, I do get the impression fans are being harder on Martin than Incognito. Which is why in general, I get the impression most fans forgive punks quicker than guys they perceive as cowards.

The white trash jab was unfair of me. Occasionally I take cheap shots. I try to keep them to a minimum though.

[Albany,n.y.]

[QUOTE=Mike13;3870577]I keep reading that the Dolphins will cut him within the next few days.[/QUOT

Yesterday one of the sports shows said they can keep him suspended for the next 4 weeks (that appears to be the maximum for a team suspension per the CBA) and not have to pay him, but if they cut him now, he has to be paid in full. So, if they're right his status will be suspended for the next 4 weeks & then they'll cut him.

[pmoon6]

I don't know...

Based on the stuff I've read on various forums and user commentary sections on football websites, I do get the impression fans are being harder on Martin than Incognito. Which is why in general, I get the impression most fans forgive punks quicker than guys they perceive as cowards.

The white trash jab was unfair of me. Occasionally I take cheap shots. I try to keep them to a minimum though.Well, I never "forgave" Incognito or took his "side". All I said was Martin should have went toe to toe the first time it happened. Not ran away and went to the media.

But, my societal analysis is correct. We are a bunch of crybabies that can't deal with their own problems.

[better days]

I don't know...

Based on the stuff I've read on various forums and user commentary sections on football websites, I do get the impression fans are being harder on Martin than Incognito. Which is why in general, I get the impression most fans forgive punks quicker than guys they perceive as cowards.

The white trash jab was unfair of me. Occasionally I take cheap shots. I try to keep them to a minimum though.

Well, I think your premise was because Incognito is WHITE & Martin is black that WHITE NFL fans would side with Incognito which is just a ridiculous premise by you.

I agree with pmoon6 that Martin should have stood up to the bully Incognito instead of crying & running away.

[cookie G]

This reflects almost as poorly on the character of the Dolphins organization as it does on Idiotcognito. There's no way other players didn't know this was going on, and their tolerating it is sickening and sad. And if the coaching staff didn't know about it, or if they created an atmosphere that allowed this type of thing to happen, then they've failed and should be fired.

That's the point Berman was trying to bring out, but I can't say anyone bit definitely. He kept pointing to the dates of the voice mails, and said if this was going on since then, someone higher up had to know at some point. There were a number of "maybe" responses given.

I'd almost bet that if Martin approached someone on the coaching staff or management, he received a response like "well, you know how he is..he doesn't really mean it, let it go".. that type of thing. And I seriously doubt Incognito, to this day, thinks he said anything wrong.

[better days]

That's the point Berman was trying to bring out, but I can't say anyone bit definitely. He kept pointing to the dates of the voice mails, and said if this was going on since then, someone higher up had to know at some point. There were a number of "maybe" responses given.

I'd almost bet that if Martin approached someone on the coaching staff or management, he received a response like "well, you know how he is..he doesn't really mean it, let it go".. that type of thing. And I seriously doubt Incognito, to this day, thinks he said anything wrong.

From what I have read, Incognito & other vets were hazing the rookies by making them pay money to the vets for things like strippers & a trip to Vegas.

It does not look like Martin was singled out as far as that goes. It looks like the other rookies just accepted the hazing while Martin did not accept it.

But instead of standing up to the bully Incognito, Martin ran from him.

[trapezeus]

most people don't settle things with their fists and that doesn't make people crybabies. there is some general hazing that is in good nature.

extorting 15k and making someone's life hell and seeing no support form coaches or other players doesn't make martin a guy who doesn't have your back. he's being made to feel distinctly that no one has his back. he's got no one to turn to. So he wisely gives up and the act catches media attention.

i just don't get how someone couldn't say martin acted in his best interest.

as for the players being upset that martin wouldn't have their back, that's some really strange macho thing that simply doesn't exist. "lets treat a guy like crap every minute of his work life and see if he wants to fight for us."

lastly, nothing brings me greater joy than seeing the dolphins without two of their OL for no other reason than stupidity.

[pmoon6]

Well, you are talking about professional football where extreme violence is part of the job description.

But, I love the last line and totally agree. Nothing warms my heart like a Fins' meltdown. I used to take great joy when the great Dan Marino would go into a sideline temper tantrum stamping his feet and crying when we were kicking his ass.

[better days]

most people don't settle things with their fists and that doesn't make people crybabies. there is some general hazing that is in good nature.

extorting 15k and making someone's life hell and seeing no support form coaches or other players doesn't make martin a guy who doesn't have your back. he's being made to feel distinctly that no one has his back. he's got no one to turn to. So he wisely gives up and the act catches media attention.

i just don't get how someone couldn't say martin acted in his best interest.

as for the players being upset that martin wouldn't have their back, that's some really strange macho thing that simply doesn't exist. "lets treat a guy like crap every minute of his work life and see if he wants to fight for us."

lastly, nothing brings me greater joy than seeing the dolphins without two of their OL for no other reason than stupidity.

A MAN needs to stand up to bullies in life. It is NEVER WISE to give up & run away from a bully.

Thank God you were not running this Country when Hitler was in power or we would all be speaking German now.

[DraftBoy]

Well, I never "forgave" Incognito or took his "side". All I said was Martin should have went toe to toe the first time it happened. Not ran away and went to the media.

But, my societal analysis is correct. We are a bunch of crybabies that can't deal with their own problems.

He didn't go to the media. So not sure where that is coming from.

[DraftBoy]

That's the point Berman was trying to bring out, but I can't say anyone bit definitely. He kept pointing to the dates of the voice mails, and said if this was going on since then, someone higher up had to know at some point. There were a number of "maybe" responses given.

I'd almost bet that if Martin approached someone on the coaching staff or management, he received a response like "well, you know how he is..he doesn't really mean it, let it go".. that type of thing. And I seriously doubt Incognito, to this day, thinks he said anything wrong.

Add to that the fact that Incognito was on the leadership council and you see how an already uncomfortable situation for Martin becomes near impossible.

[DraftBoy]

A MAN needs to stand up to bullies in life. It is NEVER WISE to give up & run away from a bully.

Thank God you were not running this Country when Hitler was in power or we would all be speaking German now.

Standing up is not always about doing something with your fists.

[pmoon6]

Standing up is not always about doing something with your fists.True, but in this case I think fists were exactly what was required.

[pmoon6]

He didn't go to the media. So not sure where that is coming from.Sorry, you're right. He left the team and the story was picked up.

[DraftBoy]

True, but in this case I think fists were exactly what was required.

Why? What does that gain Martin?

He assaults a teammate that is part of the leadership council at best, at worst he gets his ass whipped and the taunting becomes so much worse. Outside of petty things I've rarely seen fights actually end a dispute. This was not simply about a guy getting hazed, it went way beyond that a long time ago.

[better days]

Standing up is not always about doing something with your fists.

Agreed. But with BULLIES, sometimes it does come to that.

My father who fought in WW Two, Landed on Omaha beach on the 2nd landing & fought in the Battle of the Bulge, taught me to stand up to bullies.

I have had to fight a few bullies in my life & did not always win the fight, but I was NEVER picked on by that bully again after standing up to him. Win or lose.

[better days]

Why? What does that gain Martin?

He assaults a teammate that is part of the leadership council at best, at worst he gets his ass whipped and the taunting becomes so much worse. Outside of petty things I've rarely seen fights actually end a dispute. This was not simply about a guy getting hazed, it went way beyond that a long time ago.

At worst Martin gets his ass whipped. At best he whips Incognito's ass.

But in either case, the bullying & taunting STOP.

[pmoon6]

Why? What does that gain Martin?

He assaults a teammate that is part of the leadership council at best, at worst he gets his ass whipped and the taunting becomes so much worse. Outside of petty things I've rarely seen fights actually end a dispute. This was not simply about a guy getting hazed, it went way beyond that a long time ago.We grew up in different worlds. I've seen hundreds of times when a fight ends a dispute.

Of course, we are now a kinder, gentler nation.

[jdaltroy5]

Well, I never "forgave" Incognito or took his "side". All I said was Martin should have went toe to toe the first time it happened. Not ran away and went to the media.

But, my societal analysis is correct. We are a bunch of crybabies that can't deal with their own problems.You have to remember that this is also a workplace, not the school yard.

If someone at work was bullying me and I went and beat them up, I would be fired and most likely charged. I would have a really hard time finding another job.

While I agree with your premise of sticking up to bullies, I can't fault Martin for how he approached it.

[DraftBoy]

We grew up in different worlds. I've seen hundreds of times when a fight ends a dispute.

Of course, we are now a kinder, gentler nation.


Not really, you're talking about arguments and disagreements that were settled with fisticuffs, you're not talking anything about what Martin was going through. Especially not from an angle of an adult being bullied in the workplace.

- - - Updated - - -


Agreed. But with BULLIES, sometimes it does come to that.

My father who fought in WW Two, Landed on Omaha beach on the 2nd landing & fought in the Battle of the Bulge, taught me to stand up to bullies.

I have had to fight a few bullies in my life & did not always win the fight, but I was NEVER picked on by that bully again after standing up to him. Win or lose.

In your adult life you have had to deal with bullies?

[pmoon6]

You have to remember that this is also a workplace, not the school yard.

If someone at work was bullying me and I went and beat them up, I would be fired and most likely charged. I would have a really hard time finding another job.

While I agree with your premise of sticking up to bullies, I can't fault Martin for how he approached it.We are not talking about the accounting office, it's the football field where fights and melees break out at practice all the time. Aggressiveness is considered a good quality.

[jdaltroy5]

At worst Martin gets his ass whipped. At best he whips Incognito's ass.

But in either case, the bullying & taunting STOP.No, at worst he gets arrested and kicked off the team.

This isn't the school yard and the local 98 lb bully didn't just steal your snack pack.

These are 300+ lb men that could cause permanent damage and this is a workplace.

[DraftBoy]

At worst Martin gets his ass whipped. At best he whips Incognito's ass.

But in either case, the bullying & taunting STOP.

No it doesn't. If he loses the fight its only intensifies, the idea that a willing to throw down suddenly stops all of this is a false premise. This isn't a school yard where the kid who has grown the most will pick on you until you sock him in the nose. That mentality is completely wrong for this scenario.

- - - Updated - - -


We are not talking about the accounting office, it's the football field where fights and melees break out at practice all the time. Aggressiveness is considered a good quality.

True we're talking about a football field with media everywhere. Your local accounting office doesn't have that.

[jdaltroy5]

We are not talking about the accounting office, it's the football field where fights and melees break out at practice all the time. Aggressiveness is considered a good quality.Yes, but these things are happening outside of the football field. Do you want them to throw down in the middle of the cafeteria?

[pmoon6]

Yes, but these things are happening outside of the football field. Do you want them to throw down in the middle of the cafeteria?I would have.

[DraftBoy]

I would have.

You then may have been arrested, sued, and lost your job. All because you couldn't walk away. Not worth it.

[jdaltroy5]

I would have.And you very well would've been charged and most likely fired.

[pmoon6]

And you very well would've been charged and most likely fired.Or maybe then I would have presented my case of continued harassment without looking like a pussy.

[jdaltroy5]

Or maybe then I would have presented my case of continued harassment without looking like a pussy.
Yeah, maybe, but that's a pretty big risk.

Like I said, I'm all for sticking up to bullies. I can't even tell you how many fights I've been in grade school because of bullies. Not even just for myself, most of the time it was for other people.

But this isn't the school yard. There's just so much more at risk.

[trapezeus]

http://nypost.com/2013/11/04/going-far-beyond-boys-will-be-boys/

a very interesting article about a former player (white) talking about his tormentors (also white, thereby taking race out of the equation). He talks about how he wanted to fight the guy but that not being who he was.

and for all the guys who want this to be sorted out by a fight, if it came out that martin hurt incognito in a fight because some words were exchanged, martin would have come off as the bad guy. "what? he can't take some ribbing?"

and thanks BEtter days, i love how you have the optimism that the bills could be a decent team after any tiny shred of good news, but assume i'd lose WWII to the nazi's.

at the end of the day, incognito was way out of line and MArtin acted appropriately. what would the story hvae been if he killed himself over this? like the stories we hear about high school kids who can't take the constant abuse from bullies? in the grand scheme of things, this worked out fairly well. the bully is out of football, the tormented treated fairly and given time to make a decision.

[better days]

No, at worst he gets arrested and kicked off the team.

This isn't the school yard and the local 98 lb bully didn't just steal your snack pack.

These are 300+ lb men that could cause permanent damage and this is a workplace.

NONSENSE. Incognito was extorting money from Martin.

There is no way in hell he would press charges against Martin or he in turn could be arrested for that.

[better days]

No it doesn't. If he loses the fight its only intensifies, the idea that a willing to throw down suddenly stops all of this is a false premise. This isn't a school yard where the kid who has grown the most will pick on you until you sock him in the nose. That mentality is completely wrong for this scenario.

- - - Updated - - -



True we're talking about a football field with media everywhere. Your local accounting office doesn't have that.

Nonsense. It is the same mentality Hitler used in WWll.

Chamberlain gave in to Hitler & that just led to Hitler wanting MORE.

Thank God for Churchill "WE HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR, BUT FEAR ITSELF."

[better days]

You then may have been arrested, sued, and lost your job. All because you couldn't walk away. Not worth it.

Sued by a guy that was EXTORTING MONEY from you?

SERIOUSLY?

[better days]

http://nypost.com/2013/11/04/going-far-beyond-boys-will-be-boys/

a very interesting article about a former player (white) talking about his tormentors (also white, thereby taking race out of the equation). He talks about how he wanted to fight the guy but that not being who he was.

and for all the guys who want this to be sorted out by a fight, if it came out that martin hurt incognito in a fight because some words were exchanged, martin would have come off as the bad guy. "what? he can't take some ribbing?"

and thanks BEtter days, i love how you have the optimism that the bills could be a decent team after any tiny shred of good news, but assume i'd lose WWII to the nazi's.

at the end of the day, incognito was way out of line and MArtin acted appropriately. what would the story hvae been if he killed himself over this? like the stories we hear about high school kids who can't take the constant abuse from bullies? in the grand scheme of things, this worked out fairly well. the bully is out of football, the tormented treated fairly and given time to make a decision.

The difference between you & this Bills team is the team is willing to fight while you think it wise to run away.

Is your last name Chamberlain?

[jdaltroy5]

NONSENSE. Incognito was extorting money from Martin.

There is no way in hell he would press charges against Martin or he in turn could be arrested for that.Incognito doesn't have to press charges in order for Martin to be charged with assault. That's a decision that is made by the DA and the police.

Especially since he would've done it in front of 100 other witnesses.

[trapezeus]

Nonsense. It is the same mentality Hitler used in WWll.

Chamberlain gave in to Hitler & that just led to Hitler wanting MORE.

Thank God for Churchill "WE HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR, BUT FEAR ITSELF."


is that Churchill quoting FDR?

you are the most ridiculous poster sometimes, BD.

[better days]

Not really, you're talking about arguments and disagreements that were settled with fisticuffs, you're not talking anything about what Martin was going through. Especially not from an angle of an adult being bullied in the workplace.

- - - Updated - - -



In your adult life you have had to deal with bullies?

Not in years, but yes I have had to deal with Bullies as a young adult. As adults we don't usually have to come to fists, you can stand up for yourself without a physical fight.

But if I feel physically threatened by a bully, yes, it will get physical.

IMO, Martin should never have given the money to Incognito. What would/could Incognito have done if Martin REFUSED to pay the extortion money?

[better days]

Incognito doesn't have to press charges in order for Martin to be charged with assault. That's a decision that is made by the DA and the police.

Especially since he would've done it in front of 100 other witnesses.

Please, there are FIGHTS on the football field ALL THE TIME. NOBODY gets arrested or kicked off the team for that.

Especially when the aggressor is JUSTIFIED.

[jdaltroy5]

Please, there are FIGHTS on the football field ALL THE TIME. NOBODY gets arrested or kicked off the team for that.

Especially when the aggressor is JUSTIFIED.Except for I specifically said in the cafeteria, not the field.

[better days]

Except for I specifically said in the cafeteria, not the field.

I don't care. Even in the cafeteria if it came to a physical fight, it is still on the team site & NO ARREST would have been made if no weapons were involved.

I am sure that kind of thing happens OFTEN in the NFL. We are talking YOUNG guys full of testosterone, sometimes artificially induced testrosterone.

[jdaltroy5]

I don't care. Even in the cafeteria if it came to a physical fight, it is still on the team site & NO ARREST would have been made if no weapons were involved.

I am sure that kind of thing happens OFTEN in the NFL. We are talking YOUNG guys full of testosterone, sometimes artificially induced testrosterone.That's a pretty easy assumption to make when it's not your life and not your career.

It doesn't matter if it's on the team site or not. The DA acts in the interest of the people, not the combatants, and certainly not the owners of the property.

He absolutely COULD have been charged if he started a fight, or he could've injured himself or Incognito, or he could've just been released. He was already on thin ice because of his poor play, if tow guys get in a fight, who do you think they're going to release? The pro bowl guard or the struggling OT?

Nothing good would've come out it if he started a fight.

[EricStratton]

Do you realize how stupid the Hitler references are?

[better days]

That's a pretty easy assumption to make when it's not your life and not your career.

It doesn't matter if it's on the team site or not. The DA acts in the interest of the people, not the combatants, and certainly not the owners of the property.

He absolutely COULD have been charged if he started a fight, or he could've injured himself or Incognito, or he could've just been released. He was already on thin ice because of his poor play, if tow guys get in a fight, who do you think they're going to release? The pro bowl guard or the struggling OT?

Nothing good would've come out it if he started a fight.

HOW would the DA know about the fight? The only witnesses in the cafeteria would have been associated with the team.

I doubt the press has access to the team cafeteria. And even if they did, football players do not get arrested for fighting each other on team grounds PERIOD.

Like I said I am sure it happens OFTEN. You just don't hear about it that often, but occasionally you do. BUT you don't hear about arrests.

[better days]

Do you realize how stupid the Hitler references are?

What is STUPID is people that think it wise to surrender to a BULLY.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Can we at least accept there is a middle ground of reactions between walking away from the team and starting a brawl?

[jdaltroy5]

HOW would the DA know about the fight? The only witnesses in the cafeteria would have been associated with the team.Oh, I don't know. Maybe the 100's of people that are at the facility everyday. Security guards, media, if one guy ends up going to the hospital, etc.. Not really that hard to fathom.


I doubt the press has access to the team cafeteria. And even if they did, football players do not get arrested for fighting each other on team grounds PERIOD.Here's a fight that happened off field between two Bears players in 2005 - http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2226518

Those guys were fined 50k each and one ended up with a broken jaw and missed a game.

And that was just a drunken fight one night between friends. It didn't have the lingering effects of bullying.


Like I said I am sure it happens OFTEN. You just don't hear about it that often, but occasionally you do. BUT you don't hear about arrests.CAPITALIZE all you want, you are ASSUMING it happens often because it HELPS your case. The REALITY is that these guys can't even sneeze without the press finding out. If they DID get in a fight off-field, we would DEFINITELY hear about it.

[jdaltroy5]

What is STUPID is people that think it wise to surrender to a BULLY.
He's not surrendering you idiot.

We're saying that the outcome could've been much worse had he just started a brawl in the cafeteria.

[pmoon6]

Can we at least accept there is a middle ground of reactions between walking away from the team and starting a brawl?OK.

[imbondz]

I think we as Bills fans should hope that Incognito is re-instated and gets to play again with the Dolphins. Because if he's one of their leaders, they will never be successful. hahahh. I think he's a scumbag. But I'm fine w/ him being on the Dolphins.


Tony Dungy had a rule there was no bullying, and no hazing. He said he trusted the leaders on his team to carry out those rules on down the line to the rookies. Leadership always starts at the very top. So this story tells me the Dolphins don't have any leadership from the top.

[imbondz]

We don't know what really happened, and why Martin didn't just stand up to Igcog in front of everyone, and punched him in the nose. Maybe he felt legitimately threatened, maybe as a rookie, you're just trying to stay on the team, and not cause any waves, and don't want to do something that will get you kicked off the team, or looked at unfavorably. Who knows. The voicemail was ridiculous though. Incognito never got out of high school.

[better days]

most people don't settle things with their fists and that doesn't make people crybabies. there is some general hazing that is in good nature.

extorting 15k and making someone's life hell and seeing no support form coaches or other players doesn't make martin a guy who doesn't have your back. he's being made to feel distinctly that no one has his back. he's got no one to turn to. So he wisely gives up and the act catches media attention.

i just don't get how someone couldn't say martin acted in his best interest.

as for the players being upset that martin wouldn't have their back, that's some really strange macho thing that simply doesn't exist. "lets treat a guy like crap every minute of his work life and see if he wants to fight for us."

lastly, nothing brings me greater joy than seeing the dolphins without two of their OL for no other reason than stupidity.

This is what I was talking about. IDIOT.

[imbondz]

K, one more. How do we know that Martin never confronted Incognito? Maybe he did say, 'dude what the f is your problem with me?' Maybe he confronted him verbally, but not physically.

[better days]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe the 100's of people that are at the facility everyday. Security guards, media, if one guy ends up going to the hospital, etc.. Not really that hard to fathom.

Here's a fight that happened off field between two Bears players in 2005 - http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2226518

Those guys were fined 50k each and one ended up with a broken jaw and missed a game.

And that was just a drunken fight one night between friends. It didn't have the lingering effects of bullying.

CAPITALIZE all you want, you are ASSUMING it happens often because it HELPS your case. The REALITY is that these guys can't even sneeze without the press finding out. If they DID get in a fight off-field, we would DEFINITELY hear about it.

The press has no authority. And the Bears fight you linked DID NOT take place on team ground. It was OFF SITE.

And even so, NO ARRESTS were made.

[better days]

Can we at least accept there is a middle ground of reactions between walking away from the team and starting a brawl?

Yes. I said Martin should not have paid the extortion money to Incognito. What would/could Incognito have done if Martin did not pay up?

[trapezeus]

better days lives in some world that does exist that tough guys wish did.

I'm all in on Martin's side. acting out could have had worse repurcussions with players getting hurt at the very least, and him just being a lunatic with a gun and taking everyone out as the worst.

in terms of backing down, he could have done worse. He could have killed himself.

he did the middle ground thing and say, "f all you all. i've tried. i've done what's been asked, and i'm the target. i just want to eat my meal with my team and move about my day." incognito is a grade one ******* and he's getting what he deserves.

Martin acted as the bigger man, and hopefully he doesn't have to pay a higher price with his career as a whistleblower. Though from the sounds of his background and family, he's smarter than your average lineman, and could easily find employment doing something else.

[better days]

better days lives in some world that does exist that tough guys wish did.

I'm all in on Martin's side. acting out could have had worse repurcussions with players getting hurt at the very least, and him just being a lunatic with a gun and taking everyone out as the worst.

in terms of backing down, he could have done worse. He could have killed himself.

he did the middle ground thing and say, "f all you all. i've tried. i've done what's been asked, and i'm the target. i just want to eat my meal with my team and move about my day." incognito is a grade one ******* and he's getting what he deserves.

Martin acted as the bigger man, and hopefully he doesn't have to pay a higher price with his career as a whistleblower. Though from the sounds of his background and family, he's smarter than your average lineman, and could easily find employment doing something else.

I agree about Incognito. But if Martin were SMART, he should not have paid that extortion money. That would have been the end of it.

[pmoon6]

K, one more. How do we know that Martin never confronted Incognito? Maybe he did say, 'dude what the f is your problem with me?' Maybe he confronted him verbally, but not physically.Good point.

[jdaltroy5]

The press has no authority. And the Bears fight you linked DID NOT take place on team ground. It was OFF SITE.

And even so, NO ARRESTS were made.The press doesn't have to have any authority. All they have to do is let it leak out that there was a fight and then the police can investigate it. The press would never want to leak a story about that though would they?

It doesn't matter if it's on team ground or not. Do you not understand how the law works? You can't just assault someone if you own the property.

And no arrests were made, but the FBI did investigate it and they were fined 50k by the league.

I'm not saying that they would DEFINITELY be arrested. But if you assault someone, there is ALWAYS the POSSIBILITY of being arrested. It doesn't matter where you are, unless you're in international waters, then it gets kind of dicey.

The fact of the matter is that if Martin just went up and punched Incognito out, the matter would absolutely not be resolved. I love how you think your school yard comparison is apt. Since you stood up to a bully one time in the 4th grade, then he should just do it here and everything will just end up the same.

[jdaltroy5]

I agree about Incognito. But if Martin were SMART, he should not have paid that extortion money. That would have been the end of it.
Do you really think that would've been the end of it?

Do you think the same guy that leaves threatening racist voicemails is just going to say, "Gee guys, this rookie seems pretty serious, maybe we should just leave him alone."

Remember when Dez Bryant refused to carry someone's shoulder pads? To get back at him, they made Bryant pay for a $55k dinner.

[better days]

The press doesn't have to have any authority. All they have to do is let it leak out that there was a fight and then the police can investigate it. The press would never want to leak a story about that though would they?

It doesn't matter if it's on team ground or not. Do you not understand how the law works? You can't just assault someone if you own the property.

And no arrests were made, but the FBI did investigate it and they were fined 50k by the league.

I'm not saying that they would DEFINITELY be arrested. But if you assault someone, there is ALWAYS the POSSIBILITY of being arrested. It doesn't matter where you are, unless you're in international waters, then it gets kind of dicey.

The fact of the matter is that if Martin just went up and punched Incognito out, the matter would absolutely not be resolved. I love how you think your school yard comparison is apt. Since you stood up to a bully one time in the 4th grade, then he should just do it here and everything will just end up the same.

Since arrests NEVER HAPPEN when NFL players fight, I don't know why you would expect an arrest in this case.

Your outcome is much less likely than mine.

[jdaltroy5]

Since arrests NEVER HAPPEN when NFL players fight, I don't know why you would expect an arrest in this case.

Your outcome is much less likely than mine.Oh really? They never happen?

Please list off all the fist fights that NFL players have had off the field in the last 5 years.

[Albany,n.y.]

At worst Martin gets his ass whipped. At best he whips Incognito's ass.

But in either case, the bullying & taunting STOP.

At worst Icognito beats Martin senseless or worse grabs a knife from the table-in both cases Martin (or Incognito if Martin grabs the knife 1st) can die. Some physical confrontations end in death, I see it on the news all the time when guys fight outside a bar. I guess if one guy dies & the other ends up in jail, the guy in prison then moves on to the become the ultimate bullyer or bullyee, where bullying has a whole new meaning.

[better days]

Oh really? They never happen?

Please list off all the fist fights that NFL players have had off the field in the last 5 years.

The next time I read of one on profootball talk.com, I will link it.

And I will bet it happens before the start of the next season. ON TEAM GROUNDS, either on the field or somewhere on team grounds.

Now, show me arrests made in the last 5 years for NFL players fighting each other.

And if either guy were STUPID enough to pick up a knife as a weapon, he would never play again in the NFL MINIMUM.

[stuckincincy]

Martin should have went to court and try for a restraining order, or to up the ante, a civil protection order. If it was granted, it would have made for a most interesting situation.

[DraftBoy]

Nonsense. It is the same mentality Hitler used in WWll.

Chamberlain gave in to Hitler & that just led to Hitler wanting MORE.

Thank God for Churchill "WE HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR, BUT FEAR ITSELF."

Yes because calling somebody half-black, saying you want to defecate in their mouth, calling them gay, and extorting $15k from them is totally like what Hitler did...

[DraftBoy]

Sued by a guy that was EXTORTING MONEY from you?

SERIOUSLY?

You can be sued for battery or assault. Maybe you get off criminally, but lets say you do damage and cost Incognito future wages the lawsuit is there.

[DraftBoy]

Not in years, but yes I have had to deal with Bullies as a young adult. As adults we don't usually have to come to fists, you can stand up for yourself without a physical fight.

But if I feel physically threatened by a bully, yes, it will get physical.

IMO, Martin should never have given the money to Incognito. What would/could Incognito have done if Martin REFUSED to pay the extortion money?


So in other words no, you have no experience at all with regard to this issue and your premise is entirely false.

I don't believe he did give the money to Incognito, at least not at first.

[GingerP]

Do you realize how stupid the Hitler references are?

WHAT!!! You don't remember when Hitler bombed Pearl Harbor?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Martin should have went to court and try for a restraining order, or to up the ante, a civil protection order. If it was granted, it would have made for a most interesting situation.

LMAO they would have to line up on opposite sides of the field.

[trapezeus]

Martin should have went to court and try for a restraining order, or to up the ante, a civil protection order. If it was granted, it would have made for a most interesting situation.

the guy got up from a lunch room table and people give him grief. imagine if he went the legal route first. the shock and outrage of "not just dealing with it" would have been very high.

[DraftBoy]

Martin should have went to court and try for a restraining order, or to up the ante, a civil protection order. If it was granted, it would have made for a most interesting situation.

I can't even begin to fathom how that would work. The team would have to suspend Incognito like they have. Can you imagine the headache the NFLPA would have with that? Right now they have a cluster**** on their hands but a RO completely alters things.

[Mr. Pink]

Michael Westbrook was fined 50k for his fight with Stephen Davis during practice and that was 16 years ago.

People laughed and mocked him over it.

Who knows what the Redskins locker room thought about his actions.

Maybe Martin didn't want to face a league fine, team fine, suspension for physically assaulting Incognito on top of whatever backlash he'd get in the locker room for attacking what's obviously a liked or at least feared guy in the locker room.

2nd year player vs Respected Veteran... I don't care who wins the fight, long term the Vet wins every time.

[jdaltroy5]

The next time I read of one on profootball talk.com, I will link it.

And I will bet it happens before the start of the next season. ON TEAM GROUNDS, either on the field or somewhere on team grounds.

Now, show me arrests made in the last 5 years for NFL players fighting each other.

And if either guy were STUPID enough to pick up a knife as a weapon, he would never play again in the NFL MINIMUM.
I'm not talking about on the field. Clearly that's different.

I said, off field, in the cafeteria. C'mon man, you said it happens all the time and they never get arrested, so let's see some proof. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass.

The only off field fight I could find was the Bears one. One guy had a broken jaw and they were both fined $50k.

Let me guess, they happen all the time, but the media just doesn't report it right?

[stuckincincy]

the guy got up from a lunch room table and people give him grief. imagine if he went the legal route first. the shock and outrage of "not just dealing with it" would have been very high.

If Martin had an extant restraining or protective order, Incognito would have been burdened with requirements to maintain a certain distance from the plaintiff. Obviously not possible in the clubhouse or on the field.

Like I said - interesting.

[GingerP]

Michael Westbrook was fined 50k for his fight with Stephen Davis during practice and that was 16 years ago.

Steve Smith punched a couple teammates. He broke Anthony Bright's nose during a film session and punched Ken Lucas on the sideline during practice (cutting him).

I think in the end, how much retribution there is depends on the player. Michael Irvin stabbed Everett McGiver in the neck with a pair of scissors, but nothing happened to him because Jerry Jones convinced him not to press charges and Irvin paid him over $100K. If you are good you are in a greater position of power and can get away from more.

That applies here as well. Incognito was a veteran on the leadership council, so ti is harder for Martin to stand up to him. He was the young player, and it isn't just a matter of him standing up to Incognito. Look at the how long Prince Amukamara had to put up with getting dunked in the cold tub. Was he supposed to stand up to all those guys and make a ruckus? It isn't just Incognito that he was up against, it was the team culture.

[EricStratton]

What is STUPID is people that think it wise to surrender to a BULLY.


No, the Hitler reference is stupid.

[GingerP]

If Martin had an extant restraining or protective order, Incognito would have been burdened with requirements to maintain a certain distance from the plaintiff. Obviously not possible in the clubhouse or on the field.

I don't know that a protective order would apply here. This was a workplace issue, so he probably could have filed a complaint with the EEOC. Depending on how Miami reacted to that, he could have sued them and Incognito.

[GingerP]

No, the Hitler reference is stupid.

Hitler would have just have had Martin shot. I think that is the point here.

[EricStratton]

People like Chris Carter and Mike Golic spoke of this this morning and while posters keep saying fights happen all the time these guys who are in the locker rooms say that isn't the case.

The locker room is treated as a workplace just like anyplace else is and the owners have such a huge investment made that handling things physically just isn't done. What happens to a player who gets hurt in a fight in the cafeteria or locker room when the team cuts them for a non-football related injury?

While the John Wayne mentality may work when your 14 it doesn't translate to a professional work environment with millions of dollars on the line.

[imbondz]

Rich Gannon said yesterday same thing happened at Oakland 10 years ago. Veterans would haze rookies, make them pay for ridiculously expensive dinners...etc. So i'm sure it goes around everywhere, but hopefully not, and hopefully not w/ the Bills.

[GingerP]

The other thing that is laughable is the "good old days" references. The idea is he could just stand up for himself and confront his tormentor and that solves everything just isn't true, even in the good old days. If you were a black man in the south and stood up for yourself in the good old days, you probably got lynched. It isn't just him and incognito that were part of this, there was a culture that he was up against as well. He put up with this abuse for some time and tried to get it to stop, but it went well beyond his rookie year and carried on. He finally got fed up enough that he walked away, which is why it became a big story. We don't know all the details, but we know it is more complex than just him being picked on by Incognito.

[imbondz]

totally agree. he was up against more than just Cognito. It was a group of guys against Martin, it's just Cognito hated him the most, and got the most personal w/ him.

[Night Train]

Good old days are just that...old..

As always, we are probably reading 10 % of the actual story and making comments based on our own beliefs.

[JATMtheJATM]

Rich Gannon said yesterday same thing happened at Oakland 10 years ago. Veterans would haze rookies, make them pay for ridiculously expensive dinners...etc. So i'm sure it goes around everywhere, but hopefully not, and hopefully not w/ the Bills.

this didnt appear to be just hazing.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Rich Gannon said yesterday same thing happened at Oakland 10 years ago. Veterans would haze rookies, make them pay for ridiculously expensive dinners...etc. So i'm sure it goes around everywhere, but hopefully not, and hopefully not w/ the Bills.

I don't really have a problem with making them carry pads, giving them stupid haircuts, making them sing school fight songs or whatever. But when you are literally demanding tens of thousands of dollars and threatening a guy on his home phone line you've blown way past the line.

[stuckincincy]

I don't really have a problem with making them carry pads, giving them stupid haircuts, making them sing school fight songs or whatever. But when you are literally demanding tens of thousands of dollars and threatening a guy on his home phone line you've blown way past the line.

Indeed. It's a criminal act.

[better days]

People like Chris Carter and Mike Golic spoke of this this morning and while posters keep saying fights happen all the time these guys who are in the locker rooms say that isn't the case.

The locker room is treated as a workplace just like anyplace else is and the owners have such a huge investment made that handling things physically just isn't done. What happens to a player who gets hurt in a fight in the cafeteria or locker room when the team cuts them for a non-football related injury?

While the John Wayne mentality may work when your 14 it doesn't translate to a professional work environment with millions of dollars on the line.

I watched ESPN as well this morning. And Ditka said Martin should have popped Incognito. NOBODY said Martin should not have stood up for himself.

They all agreed Incognito stepped over the line.

And the NFL locker room is not a workplace just like anyplace else. It is much more like a locker room in HS than a REAL workplace.

Filled with 20 somethings full of testosterone.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I watched ESPN as well this morning. And Ditka said Martin should have popped Incognito. NOBODY said Martin should not have stood up for himself.

They all agreed Incognito stepped over the line.

And the NFL locker room is not a workplace just like anyplace else. It is much more like a locker room in HS than a REAL workplace.

Filled with 20 somethings full of testosterone.

It's pretty well known that Bill Simmons and Chris Berman hate each other at ESPN. I wonder how forgiving they would be if the two started fistfighting in the Bristol cafeteria?

[better days]

The other thing that is laughable is the "good old days" references. The idea is he could just stand up for himself and confront his tormentor and that solves everything just isn't true, even in the good old days. If you were a black man in the south and stood up for yourself in the good old days, you probably got lynched. It isn't just him and incognito that were part of this, there was a culture that he was up against as well. He put up with this abuse for some time and tried to get it to stop, but it went well beyond his rookie year and carried on. He finally got fed up enough that he walked away, which is why it became a big story. We don't know all the details, but we know it is more complex than just him being picked on by Incognito.

I doubt you were even alive when that was the case.

Incognito was the leader of the group & Martin should have just stood up to him & refused to pay.

[better days]

It's pretty well known that Bill Simmons and Chris Berman hate each other at ESPN. I wonder how forgiving they would be if the two started fistfighting in the Bristol cafeteria?

ESPN while it reports about football is NOT the NFL. Fighting is ALLOWED, even encouraged at times in the NFL & NHL. That is not the case at ESPN.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

ESPN while it reports about football is NOT the NFL. Fighting is ALLOWED, even encouraged at times in the NFL & NHL. That is not the case at ESPN.

But what if Berman was bullying Simmons? As we all know, refusing to punch a bully in the mouth is tantamount to forfeiting Czechoslovakia.

And no, fighting is not allowed or encouraged in the NFL, I have no idea where you got that from.

[DraftBoy]

ESPN while it reports about football is NOT the NFL. Fighting is ALLOWED, even encouraged at times in the NFL & NHL. That is not the case at ESPN.

No it's not, and any suggestion otherwise is categorically and false and made up.

[DraftBoy]

Rich Gannon said yesterday same thing happened at Oakland 10 years ago. Veterans would haze rookies, make them pay for ridiculously expensive dinners...etc. So i'm sure it goes around everywhere, but hopefully not, and hopefully not w/ the Bills.

Haircuts, carrying pads, and singing songs are not akin to tormenting another man. Also the rookies do get hit with 5 figure dinner checks but they are often there and split it among a few of them. In the Martin case he was paying for a trip that he was not invited to go on.

[EricStratton]

This was during the Carter segment on the radio show. Ditka wasn't on when I was in the car.


I watched ESPN as well this morning. And Ditka said Martin should have popped Incognito. NOBODY said Martin should not have stood up for himself.

They all agreed Incognito stepped over the line.

And the NFL locker room is not a workplace just like anyplace else. It is much more like a locker room in HS than a REAL workplace.

Filled with 20 somethings full of testosterone.

[better days]

Rich Gannon said yesterday same thing happened at Oakland 10 years ago. Veterans would haze rookies, make them pay for ridiculously expensive dinners...etc. So i'm sure it goes around everywhere, but hopefully not, and hopefully not w/ the Bills.

Eric Wood said hazing was also done on the Bills.

He said it was done in a fun way & helps build team chemistry.

Rookies are given stupid haircuts, taped to goal posts, thrown in the ice tub. Rookies drafted high are made to pay for an expensive meal at TC.

But everyone agrees, Incognito went over the line.

[better days]

This was during the Carter segment on the radio show. Ditka wasn't on when I was in the car.

I saw it on TV. Ditka said Martin should have popped Martin. Keyshawn Johnson & Chris Carter called Incognito a racist.

Everyone said Incognito went over the line. NOBODY said Martin should not have stood up for himself.

[EricStratton]

When it was Greeny, Golic and Carter none of them said Martin should have popped him.


I saw it on TV. Ditka said Martin should have popped Martin. Keyshawn Johnson & Chris Carter called Incognito a racist.

Everyone said Incognito went over the line. NOBODY said Martin should not have stood up for himself.

[better days]

But what if Berman was bullying Simmons? As we all know, refusing to punch a bully in the mouth is tantamount to forfeiting Czechoslovakia.

And no, fighting is not allowed or encouraged in the NFL, I have no idea where you got that from.

I have gotten fights being encouraged in the NFL from listening to Sirius Radio. In TC if a Coach wants to light a fire under a guys ass, he has another player get in his face.

Berman & Simmons are both older adults & mature enough to handle matters without being physical. Like I have said before, Martin should just have REFUSED to pay the extortion Money & that would have been the end of it.

Martin could have also went to his Coach at the start of this & had him deal with it which he did not do.

[imbondz]

no chance Cognito sees another down in the NFL. he earned that.

[better days]

When it was Greeny, Golic and Carter none of them said Martin should have popped him.

I did not listen to the radio, can't stand Greeny although I do like Golic.

But I have read & listened to a LOT about this & nowhere but on this board did I hear or read anyone say Martin should not have stood up for himself.

[Rockstar]

I don't think there are many people here that disagree with the thought Incognito is a douche bag.
His dirty play on the field and his overall demeanor show this to be true.

I'm still curious to hear the rest of this story. DraftBoy had a good response to my earlier post regarding no-one on the Dolphins team coming out in Martins defense so far.


Do you remember the bully from your school? Do you remember how he always had people around him to support him or protect him? Same principle here. I don't buy much into what the Dolphins players are saying or not saying.

But I'm still curious to see this story unfold. I do have to say that workplace or not, if you harass me repeatedly and with a tone of violence I will confront you and challenge you. Win or lose I believe that will stop the situation or at the very least allow me to sleep at night.

I have had two situations in the last few year in the workplace. (I'm a bartender so obviously this is a little different than IBM or Dupont) First situation. For three consecutive weeks an individual harassed me verbally, he wanted the girl I am dating and was getting out of control. I finally said "lets go outside" when the verbal assaults became very intense. That confrontation (ass beating) 100% ended the situation and I never heard from him again.

The second situation was more complicated. This took place afterhours in a fine dining restaurant and I was the manager. A situation arose where an employee was drunk (obviously drinking all shift long waiting on tables) he had a problem with my management style and verbally assaulted me while I was behind the bar, he then charged me slamming the drop door to the bar open, I shuffled over to the service area in the blink of an eye and we were standing face to face.

He continued to verbally berate me and as I stared him down, he realized I wasn't going to strike him. He said "you have something to lose here, I don't, so I know you wont fight me" What really happened there is he realized I WOULD fight him but only in the last possible option, because he was correct, I had a lot to lose.

But the fact that I didn't back down from him ended the problem. We never had a issue again.

So my bottom line, without knowing behind the screens what all went down. I think Martin should have made it clear he would fight Incognito if this continued, and then followed through if Incognito pushed it to that point.

[better days]

No it's not, and any suggestion otherwise is categorically and false and made up.

Like I said, I have heard discussions about this subject on Sirius radio by former players.

Fighting is not only allowed in the NFL, but at times encouraged as I said before to light a fire under an underperforming players ass.

[DraftBoy]

Like I said, I have heard discussions about this subject on Sirius radio by former players.

Fighting is not only allowed in the NFL, but at times encouraged as I said before to light a fire under an underperforming players ass.

That's not a fight, its a Training Camp skirmish. What you are talking about is not anything Martin could of done.

[better days]

That's not a fight, its a Training Camp skirmish. What you are talking about is not anything Martin could of done.

You say Tomato, I say TOMATO. Skirmish/fight, a skirmish becomes a fight QUICKLY & as I said at times is ENCOURAGED in the NFL.

All I am saying about Martin is he should have stood up for himself. If that developed into a fight, I think it would be as much Incognito's fault as Martins.

And as I also said, Martin had every opportunity to go to the HC to get this situation resolved which he also did not do.

[DraftBoy]

You say Tomato, I say TOMATO. Skirmish/fight, a skirmish becomes a fight QUICKLY & as I said at times is ENCOURAGED in the NFL.

All I am saying about Martin is he should have stood up for himself. If that developed into a fight, I think it would be as much Incognito's fault as Martins.

And as I also said, Martin had every opportunity to go to the HC to get this situation resolved which he also did not do.

No this is more like I say Monday and you say blitzkrieg.

No it doesn't, those skirmishes and highly monitored.

Not with the way the Dolphins work, if you have an issue with the Dolphins as a player you're supposed to take it to the leadership council which included Incognito.

[trapezeus]

incognito extorted money and used the N word...it's a little different than playful hazing where the hazed sees the funniness in it. when the hazed finds it threatening it has gone too far.

so yeah, go ahead and give the new guy a hard time. but let the new guy have a chance to find it funny and help out.

[better days]

No this is more like I say Monday and you say blitzkrieg.

No it doesn't, those skirmishes and highly monitored.

Not with the way the Dolphins work, if you have an issue with the Dolphins as a player you're supposed to take it to the leadership council which included Incognito.

NONSENSE. And when a player from the leadership council is a PRINCIPAL in the problem, I doubt there would be any problem taking it past the council straight to the HC.

But as others have said, the Vets on that team & especially the council FAILED. They should have told Incognito to BACK OFF. That entire council should be REPLACED.