Mizzou DE Michael Sam - Projected 3rd-4th Round Pick - Announces He's Gay

[Night Train]

Kid has guts. He was SEC co-defensive player of the year.

Now the NFL will be watched closely to see if he goes undrafted.

[Goobylal]

Very smart. He will likely be drafted albeit probably later than projected, won't be hazed, and will be hailed as a pioneer.

[Mike13]

Good for him, I hope this encourages more gay football players to come forward.

[tampabay25690]

Cool

[DraftBoy]

:bf1: Michael Sam

[swiper]

No problem with it.

[generalmills]

I think we will see that the real question is:

Can he play and help a team?
If the answer is yes, he is a player... gay or straight

[DraftBoy]

I think we will see that the real question is:

Can he play and help a team?
If the answer is yes, he is a player... gay or straight

College Football All-American…can't believe anybody would say he's not a player after the year he just had.

[GvilleBills]

Good for him.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

A Spartacus thread is inevitable.

[JATMtheJATM]

A Spartacus thread is inevitable.

i started one. for the political talk.

[feldspar]

That's fine as long as I'm not the Center and he's the Quarterback.

There's also a pitcher/catcher analogy that I'll let you guys figure out for yourselves.

[JCBills]

That's awesome, he just broke new ground.

[Skooby]

Stereo-typical jokes could be easily employed here but the reality is he might be all that & a bag of chips, though I'd assume that a typical locker-room interview might involve feathers / gerbils.

[Turf]

Who the **** cares. Sucked into the gay propaganda movement I see.

[feldspar]

Stereo-typical jokes could be easily employed here but the reality is he might be all that & a bag of chips, though I'd assume that a typical locker-room interview might involve feathers / gerbils.

And guys don't want to take a shower with guys that want to take a shower with guys.

I guess that's true enough.

Dunno why this guy would come out like he did at this point in time.

[Crisis]

great i'm glad the media has something to talk about and beat to death on every talk show until the draft and his rookie year

[BuffaloRedleg]

Who the **** cares. Sucked into the gay propaganda movement I see.

Ever see old video of those *******s in Alabama protesting integration in the 60's?

That's you.

History will not smile fondly on you 20 years from now. You're on the side of the bad guys and you are going to lose.

You are going to get ****ed in the ass by the "Gay Propoganda Movement" so better lube up and prepare your excuses for why you were such a bigot back in the day.

[kishoph]

It's about time and I applaud Michael Sam, but in the world today this shouldn't even be an issue, but unfortunately the media is never going to let it not be an issue.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I'm so tired of people calling gay people courageous heroes. It's bs. Who gives a crap who you're boinking? There is no nobility to your "struggle"
this political movement to equate this bs with the civil rights movement of blacks should be an considered an offense.
im just so sick of having this crap thrown in my face.

[kishoph]

I'm so tired of people calling gay people courageous heroes. It's bs. Who gives a crap who you're boinking? There is no nobility to your "struggle"
this political movement to equate this bs with the civil rights movement of blacks should be an considered an offense.
im just so sick of having this crap thrown in my face.

Maybe if you were gay and you were looked down upon and treated unfairly just because "who you're boinking", you might feel differently. Maybe gays and lesbians should just shut up, be happy and stop throwing their "crap" in your face.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The people who fear homosexuality talk about the sex act first. It's never about love and companionship, just butt-f***ing.

[DraftBoy]

Who the **** cares. Sucked into the gay propaganda movement I see.

A couple billion, give or take a few hundred million.

[DraftBoy]

I'm so tired of people calling gay people courageous heroes. It's bs. Who gives a crap who you're boinking? There is no nobility to your "struggle"
this political movement to equate this bs with the civil rights movement of blacks should be an considered an offense.
im just so sick of having this crap thrown in my face.

Yet you posted in a thread about it...Logic would say if you were sick of this being "thrown in your face" you would simply ignore it, not respond to it...

[k-oneputt]

I don't care what owners, gm's and teams say in front of the camera, I think this will definitely hurt his draft position.

[better days]

The people who fear homosexuality talk about the sex act first. It's never about love and companionship, just butt-f***ing.

Well, Aids did not spread throughout the gay community because of love & companionship.

It spread because of their love of promiscuity & butt-f***ing.

Unless Sam has Michael Strahan, Reggie White type ability, why would any team want to draft this guy with the Circus that will come to town with him?

[pmoon6]

Guys like Chris Carter and Emmitt Smith have commented on having an openly gay man in an NFL locker room. They said the NFL is not ready for that yet and the player would not be accepted by his teammates.

I also think that any team that drafts him would be facing unwanted publicity with the media camped out at their offices everyday. It would be a circus just like with Tim Tebow. It takes away from game preparation when players and coaches have to answer questions about "the gay guy"

[pmoon6]

It will also be interesting to see how this plays out. If he does go undrafted and doesn't have a team sign him as an UFA, will he sue the NFL for discrimination?

[Uncle Jesse]

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes undrafted. That being said, some team may use this as a positive for their franchise and spin it that way.

That Collins dude in the NBA came out, was a solid player, and look....never picked up by a team again. Cold, are reality still.

[feldspar]

It will also be interesting to see how this plays out. If he does go undrafted and doesn't have a team sign him as an UFA, will he sue the NFL for discrimination?

Suing the NFL would be gay.

He'd never be able to actually PROVE discrimination either, I would think.

Maybe it'll force some gay policy like the Rooney rule, where every team is forced to tryout a homosexual. Call it the Sam Rule.

I have gay friends, but I sure wouldn't want to shower with them, even in a locker-room. Is that being homophobic? Maybe. People want to act so open-minded, but I figure most straight guys feel the same way, at least in this country.

I agree that it will probably be a distraction to have him on any team. The ideal is that it shouldn't matter at all if he's gay, but all the attention it gets says otherwise...that it DOES matter, for whatever reason. Let's talk all day about something that doesn't matter and call it news...does not add up.

[k-oneputt]

I agree. I think he may go undrafted.

You know the majority of players in any given NFL lockerroom will not be happy with the situation.

[pmoon6]

Of course, a perfect landing zone for him would be South Florida. The Miami fans would embrace him immediately. He's one of their own.

[Stewie]

Guys like Chris Carter and Emmitt Smith have commented on having an openly gay man in an NFL locker room. They said the NFL is not ready for that yet and the player would not be accepted by his teammates.

I also think that any team that drafts him would be facing unwanted publicity with the media camped out at their offices everyday. It would be a circus just like with Tim Tebow. It takes away from game preparation when players and coaches have to answer questions about "the gay guy"

Anyone who claims insight into everyone, is only really speaking of himself.

[Stewie]

Suing the NFL would be gay.

He'd never be able to actually PROVE discrimination either, I would think.

Maybe it'll force some gay policy like the Rooney rule, where every team is forced to tryout a homosexual. Call it the Sam Rule.

I have gay friends, but I sure wouldn't want to shower with them, even in a locker-room. Is that being homophobic? Maybe. People want to act so open-minded, but I figure most straight guys feel the same way, at least in this country.

I agree that it will probably be a distraction to have him on any team. The ideal is that it shouldn't matter at all if he's gay, but all the attention it gets says otherwise...that it DOES matter, for whatever reason. Let's talk all day about something that doesn't matter and call it news...does not add up.

They already do shower with gay people. There are plenty of gay people already in lockerrooms in every state in this country. The reason it's a big deal is because bigots say stupid things like I wouldn't want to shower with my gay friends. So does that mean you want to shower with your straight friends? What kind of logic is this?

[better days]

Of course, a perfect landing zone for him would be South Florida. The Miami fans would embrace him immediately. He's one of their own.

Or San Francisco or New Orleans. The fans in those Cities would welcome him with open arms.

I don't think the players would however.

And Gay rights started in NYC. Maybe the Jets should draft him.

[better days]

They already do shower with gay people. There are plenty of gay people already in lockerrooms in every state in this country. The reason it's a big deal is because bigots say stupid things like I wouldn't want to shower with my gay friends. So does that mean you want to shower with your straight friends? What kind of logic is this?

The logic is you don't have to worry another straight guy is going to be attracted to you if you drop the bar of soap.

[pmoon6]

They already do shower with gay people. There are plenty of gay people already in lockerrooms in every state in this country. The reason it's a big deal is because bigots say stupid things like I wouldn't want to shower with my gay friends. So does that mean you want to shower with your straight friends? What kind of logic is this?Why are they bigots if they don't chose to shower with men who have sex with other men? Maybe it makes them feel uncomfortable. Of course the use of the word "bigot" is to stifle opinion because no one wants to be called that.

It's also interesting that fluffers like yourself want to dictate through criticism how others should think and feel.

[feldspar]

They already do shower with gay people. There are plenty of gay people already in lockerrooms in every state in this country. The reason it's a big deal is because bigots say stupid things like I wouldn't want to shower with my gay friends. So does that mean you want to shower with your straight friends? What kind of logic is this?

**** you, I'm a bigot.

[EDS]

Suing the NFL would be gay.

He'd never be able to actually PROVE discrimination either, I would think.

Maybe it'll force some gay policy like the Rooney rule, where every team is forced to tryout a homosexual. Call it the Sam Rule.

I have gay friends, but I sure wouldn't want to shower with them, even in a locker-room. Is that being homophobic? Maybe. People want to act so open-minded, but I figure most straight guys feel the same way, at least in this country.

I agree that it will probably be a distraction to have him on any team. The ideal is that it shouldn't matter at all if he's gay, but all the attention it gets says otherwise...that it DOES matter, for whatever reason. Let's talk all day about something that doesn't matter and call it news...does not add up.

Almost guaranteed that one of your teammates from high school or college was gay and showered with you.

[K-Gun]

The guy has integrity. He's going to get drafted b/c he was the best defensive player in the SEC. And he seems like the kind of person that will gain the respect of his teamates because of his play and attitude.

All the Archie Bunkers in this thread are funny, and perhaps still ruminating that the country just isn't ready for Jackie Robinson.

good interview: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10429030/michael-sam-missouri-tigers-says-gay

[pmoon6]

The guy has integrity. He's going to get drafted b/c he was the best defensive player in the SEC. And he seems like the kind of person that will gain the respect of his teamates because of his play and attitude.

All the Archie Bunkers in this thread are funny, and perhaps still ruminating that the country just isn't ready for Jackie Robinson.

good interview: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10429030/michael-sam-missouri-tigers-says-gayHaHaHa. There ya go, sports fans, the ass kissing has begun.

"Archie Bunkers"

Too funny.

[feldspar]

The guy has integrity. He's going to get drafted b/c he was the best defensive player in the SEC. And he seems like the kind of person that will gain the respect of his teamates because of his play and attitude.

All the Archie Bunkers in this thread are funny, and perhaps still ruminating that the country just isn't ready for Jackie Robinson.

good interview: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10429030/michael-sam-missouri-tigers-says-gay

I didn't see anyone in this thread even suggesting that he should be black-balled from the NFL or anything close to that.

In fact, I wish him all the luck in the world. If he can play the game, he belongs in the NFL...bottom line.

[better days]

The guy has integrity. He's going to get drafted b/c he was the best defensive player in the SEC. And he seems like the kind of person that will gain the respect of his teamates because of his play and attitude.

All the Archie Bunkers in this thread are funny, and perhaps still ruminating that the country just isn't ready for Jackie Robinson.

good interview: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10429030/michael-sam-missouri-tigers-says-gay

So the best defensive player in the SEC is only worth a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick?

I don't think so despite what ESPN said. It is clear ESPN chose him to gain publicity for themselves.

[feldspar]

Almost guaranteed that one of your teammates from high school or college was gay and showered with you.

So what? Had I known, it would have made me uncomfortable. Kill me.

Maybe they should let me shower with the women, and then lay some kind of guilt trip on them if they are uncomfortable about it. In fact, I'm all for that idea. How do you feel about that? Would the women have a point, or would they be Archie Bunker bigots if they would prefer not to get naked with me?

I'm not all up-in-arms about it, but it would be an issue.

[ICRockets]

I have gay friends, but I sure wouldn't want to shower with them, even in a locker-room.

That seems like an odd addendum. Did you think we'd assume you frequently shower with other men in your own home if you didn't clarify?

[EDS]

So what? Had I known, it would have made me uncomfortable. Kill me.

Maybe they should let me shower with the women, and then lay some kind of guilt trip on them if they are uncomfortable about it. In fact, I'm all for that idea. How do you feel about that? Would the women have a point, or would they be Archie Bunker bigots if they would prefer not to get naked with me?

I'm not all up-in-arms about it, but it would be an issue.

The women would likely feel physically threatened in that scenario. Sounds like you would be physically threatened by having a gay man in a lockerroom with you. I doubt any NFL player will feel that way in a lockerroom of his peers.

[Stewie]

The logic is you don't have to worry another straight guy is going to be attracted to you if you drop the bar of soap.

Gay guys are attracted to you, or not, already. Soap has nothing to do with it. What are you worried about?

[Stewie]

Why are they bigots if they don't chose to shower with men who have sex with other men? Maybe it makes them feel uncomfortable. Of course the use of the word "bigot" is to stifle opinion because no one wants to be called that.

It's also interesting that fluffers like yourself want to dictate through criticism how others should think and feel.

If you have any problems with being called a bigot, you shouldn't say bigoted things. And when I say "you" I'm speaking about anyone, in general terms. It has nothing to do with stifling opinion. Unpopular opinion is unpopular for a reason, and if you know something is unpopular that doesn't mean people want to stifle you. Nor does it mean we'll all pretend it isn't what it is.

[Stewie]

So what? Had I known, it would have made me uncomfortable. Kill me.

Maybe they should let me shower with the women, and then lay some kind of guilt trip on them if they are uncomfortable about it. In fact, I'm all for that idea. How do you feel about that? Would the women have a point, or would they be Archie Bunker bigots if they would prefer not to get naked with me?

I'm not all up-in-arms about it, but it would be an issue.

What does your comfort have to do with anything?

[pmoon6]

If you have any problems with being called a bigot, you shouldn't say bigoted things. And when I say "you" I'm speaking about anyone, in general terms. It has nothing to do with stifling opinion. Unpopular opinion is unpopular for a reason, and if you know something is unpopular that doesn't mean people want to stifle you. Nor does it mean we'll all pretend it isn't what it is.Personally, I don't have a problem having a gay guy in a communal shower with me, but just because others chose not to doesn't make them bigots or homophobes.

There was a guy at my gym that was putting on womens' panties and a bra in the locker room. I told him to hurry because the lunch workout crowd was about to come in. He didn't listen and he got all sorts of ****. I even had to stop one guy from kicking his ass.

[feldspar]

What does your comfort have to do with anything?

You like to feel uncomfortable?

Feeling uncomfortable would make me a bigot according to you, I suppose.

[better days]

The women would likely feel physically threatened in that scenario. Sounds like you would be physically threatened by having a gay man in a lockerroom with you. I doubt any NFL player will feel that way in a lockerroom of his peers.

Why should a woman feel anymore threatened than a small NFL player if the Gay guy is MUCH bigger.

Not all NFL players are 6'4" & 260 lbs.

[ICRockets]

Personally, I don't have a problem having a gay guy in a communal shower with me, but just because others chose not to doesn't make them bigots or homophobes.

That kind of is textbook homophobia.

[better days]

Gay guys are attracted to you, or not, already. Soap has nothing to do with it. What are you worried about?

LOL. You are so serious about this subject you can't even see a joke in plain sight.

Why is that?

[feldspar]

The women would likely feel physically threatened in that scenario. Sounds like you would be physically threatened by having a gay man in a lockerroom with you. I doubt any NFL player will feel that way in a lockerroom of his peers.

So you are going to dismiss my perfectly good analogy out of hand like that? Let's just assume that the women aren't physically threatened. Can I shower with the cheerleaders, or are they bigots if they'd prefer not to? I promise not to hurt them.

[pmoon6]

That kind of is textbook homophobia.We already know the fluffers take on the issue. If you don't completely accept everything gay, you're a homophobe.

[Bill Cody]

I'm so tired of people calling gay people courageous heroes. It's bs. Who gives a crap who you're boinking? There is no nobility to your "struggle"
this political movement to equate this bs with the civil rights movement of blacks should be an considered an offense.
im just so sick of having this crap thrown in my face.

If nobody gave a crap there wouldn't be anti sodomy laws and anti gay marraiage laws and anti gay employment laws and unequal tax treatment for gays. Oh some people care a lot about who other people are boinking. That's the problem. I'm not gay but to say being gay in America is not a struggle shows you're either remarkably out of touch or you look down at gays. Which is it?

[ICRockets]

So you are going to dismiss my perfectly good analogy out of hand like that? Let's just assume that the women aren't physically threatened. Can I shower with the cheerleaders, or are they bigots if they'd prefer not to? I promise not to hurt them.

Yeah, it's a real perfect analogy considering women have been showering with men all along and don't know it until the man says "Hey ladies, I'm a dude". Only THEN are they all of a sudden uncomfortable. Brilliant.

[stuckincincy]

Can he play ball? :D

[pmoon6]

Yeah, it's a real perfect analogy considering women have been showering with men all along and don't know it until the man says "Hey ladies, I'm a dude". Only THEN are they all of a sudden uncomfortable. Brilliant.Well, if you are in a communal shower and look over at a guy with a hard-on looking at you, how would that make you feel? How would you react?

[feldspar]

We already know the fluffers take on the issue. If you don't completely accept everything gay, you're a homophobe.

Exactly.

There are going to be conflicts when you deal with anyone...anyone. I don't think I've met anyone that I like everything about...not for long, anyway. That's life.

[better days]

If nobody gave a crap there wouldn't be anti sodomy laws and anti gay marraiage laws and anti gay employment laws and unequal tax treatment for gays. Oh some people care a lot about who other people are boinking. That's the problem. I'm not gay but to say being gay in America is not a struggle shows you're either remarkably out of touch or you look down at gays. Which is it?

There are Gays throughout society. Famous musicians, actors, artists etc.

In many cases gays are disowned by their own families.

It is a hard road they travel, but the road they chose.

[GingerP]

It is a hard road they travel, but the road they chose.

Really? Did you "choose" to be straight?

[Historian]

Well, if you are in a communal shower and look over at a guy with a hard-on looking at you, how would that make you feel? How would you react?

Flattered???

[pmoon6]

Flattered???Already knew that would be your answer.....then you'd drop the soap.

[feldspar]

Yeah, it's a real perfect analogy considering women have been showering with men all along and don't know it until the man says "Hey ladies, I'm a dude". Only THEN are they all of a sudden uncomfortable. Brilliant.

This makes no sense and does not apply.

Sexuality orientation is known. Do you think the women would generally react differently if they knew the man they were showering with was gay, as opposed to if they knew he was straight? I guarantee most would. Then tell me that sexual-orientation doesn't matter at all in that situation.

I don't care who you are: if you put a straight man in the cheerleader's locker-room and showers, certain thoughts are going to run through his head. It's inevitable. Same thing here...he's naked with other naked athletic studs.

Look, if I was his teammate, I'd deal with certain things. Like I said, I have gay friends. I've been hit on by gay men too. One time at a party, a gay friend of mine kissed me on the lips out of the blue. I did not like that, and it made me uncomfortable. Does that make me a closed-minded bigot? I told him not to do that, and he became a total ***** about it...kicked me out his house, in fact (it was his house). This did not destroy our friendship. I'm open-minded, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept or like everything. He can *** off if he does that ****, in fact. Even if a move is not made, the orientation is always there close to the forefront if he's out of the closet.

Do you think his feelings and orientation should somehow be more important than mine? If so, that means that gay people are more beyond reproach than straight people? What?

[Historian]

Hey...I'm happy when the dog licks my face!

[better days]

Really? Did you "choose" to be straight?

I know a few gay men. My wifes brother chose to live the gay life.

He was not just open about it, but put it in everyone's face including his mother.

Now he says he is no longer gay & does not want to live the gay life anymore.

So I really don't know how much of it is a choice or not for them.

I do know I still love Elton John's music, but when I saw him kiss Paul McCartney on the lips, I found that disgusting.

[better days]

Hey...I'm happy when the dog licks my face!

I am too. I guess we are both pervs.

[ICRockets]

Well, if you are in a communal shower and look over at a guy with a hard-on looking at you, how would that make you feel? How would you react?

I'd probably go get his glasses for him, since he obviously needs them.

[Bill Cody]

There are Gays throughout society. Famous musicians, actors, artists etc.

In many cases gays are disowned by their own families.

It is a hard road they travel, but the road they chose.

I think that it's pretty far fetched that gays choose to be gay. As you say it's a hard road they travel so why anyone would choose to be treated worse by society if they didn't have to makes no sense to me. Personally I think sexuality is hard wired either way.

[feldspar]

I'd probably go get his glasses for him, since he obviously needs them.

LOL, that's funny.

If we could all laugh at ourselves, we'd all get along much better I think.

[Stewie]

I know a few gay men. My wifes brother chose to live the gay life.

He was not just open about it, but put it in everyone's face including his mother.

Now he says he is no longer gay & does not want to live the gay life anymore.

So I really don't know how much of it is a choice or not for them.

I do know I still love Elton John's music, but when I saw him kiss Paul McCartney on the lips, I found that disgusting.

Genuinely curious, can you give me an example of how somoene (your wife's gaybro) puts his gay life in peoples faces? Was he literally sucking dick on your moms face?

[Bill Cody]

Well, Aids did not spread throughout the gay community because of love & companionship.

It spread because of their love of promiscuity & butt-f***ing.

Unless Sam has Michael Strahan, Reggie White type ability, why would any team want to draft this guy with the Circus that will come to town with him?

Wow what an ignorant and hateful post. And the circus was ok when it was about Tim Tebow, right? At least Sam may contribute to a team winning.

[better days]

Genuinely curious, can you give me an example of how somoene (your wife's gaybro) puts his gay life in peoples faces? Was he literally sucking dick on your moms face?

He let his family know he was gay which is fine.

He identified himself as a bear, which is a certain group of gays

He started dressing in a way the bears do. And acting gay in regards of public affection playing suck face with his partner in front of his mother.

She loved him, & never said anything to him about it, but let the rest of us know how much it upset her & broke her heart.

[better days]

Wow what an ignorant and hateful post. And the circus was ok when it was about Tim Tebow, right? At least Sam may contribute to a team winning.

That post was not ignorant or hateful. Just the truth.

If Sam has the ability of Strahan or White he will help a team win, but I just read on profootballtalk.com that even before he came out Sam was regarded as a 3rd rnd pick at best & likely a lower 4th rnd pick.

Sam finds himself in the same boat Tebow does. I believe Tebow would have been on a team last year if not for the Circus that surrounds him. Talk about HATE!

Christian HATERS are much more vocal than Gay bashers & don't get called bigots.

[Uncle Jesse]

At least Sam may contribute to a team winning.

I doubt it. He doesn't translate to the NFL well. He'll be very lucky to be "average" in the NFL. He has no position, isn't big enough to play with his hand on the ground, and isn't good in space.

[Night Train]

That post was not ignorant or hateful. Just the truth.

If Sam has the ability of Strahan or White he will help a team win, but I just read on profootballtalk.com that even before he came out Sam was regarded as a 3rd rnd pick at best & likely a lower 4th rnd pick.

Sam finds himself in the same boat Tebow does. I believe Tebow would have been on a team last year if not for the Circus that surrounds him. Talk about HATE!

Christian HATERS are much more vocal than Gay bashers & don't get called bigots.

The difference is Sams talent at the NFL level is real, not imagined.

[Night Train]

The media IS at fault for droning on about the story, since this forced "OMG!" reaction is so 10 years ago.

The coach that drafts him should be allowed to shield the guy from the TMZ media types and keep the circus away from the team.

[Mike13]

Just think about poor Mel Kiper, having to talk about this guy. He won’t want to use any of the vaguely homoerotic draft cliches, and there is no other kind of draft cliche.

[Historian]

I doubt it. He doesn't translate to the NFL well. He'll be very lucky to be "average" in the NFL. He has no position, isn't big enough to play with his hand on the ground, and isn't good in space.




Sounds like a Buffalo first rounder!!!

[feldspar]

The media IS at fault for droning on about the story

The media is just using this poor guy as a pawn in a larger issue.

They couldn't be singling him out any more, even when they are talking about how he shouldn't be singled out.

The media not only flocks to controversy like flies on ****, but they've been known to create their own.

This is not going away any time soon. He's gonna have to limit his access to the media, for sure...not just the sports media, either.

[Stewie]

This makes no sense and does not apply.

Sexuality orientation is known. Do you think the women would generally react differently if they knew the man they were showering with was gay, as opposed to if they knew he was straight? I guarantee most would. Then tell me that sexual-orientation doesn't matter at all in that situation.

I don't care who you are: if you put a straight man in the cheerleader's locker-room and showers, certain thoughts are going to run through his head. It's inevitable. Same thing here...he's naked with other naked athletic studs.

Look, if I was his teammate, I'd deal with certain things. Like I said, I have gay friends. I've been hit on by gay men too. One time at a party, a gay friend of mine kissed me on the lips out of the blue. I did not like that, and it made me uncomfortable. Does that make me a closed-minded bigot? I told him not to do that, and he became a total ***** about it...kicked me out his house, in fact (it was his house). This did not destroy our friendship. I'm open-minded, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept or like everything. He can *** off if he does that ****, in fact. Even if a move is not made, the orientation is always there close to the forefront if he's out of the closet.

Do you think his feelings and orientation should somehow be more important than mine? If so, that means that gay people are more beyond reproach than straight people? What?

I'm sure your gay friends are so happy that you deal with them.

[Night Train]

Just think about poor Mel Kiper, having to talk about this guy. He won’t want to use any of the vaguely homoerotic draft cliches, and there is no other kind of draft cliche.


Can't mention his sack count ? ( too soon ? )

I was just reading this as Mel came on ESPN to talk about him. Said he's a 4th rounder and the combine will dictate (freudian slip) where he is selected.

[Stewie]

He let his family know he was gay which is fine.

He identified himself as a bear, which is a certain group of gays

He started dressing in a way the bears do. And acting gay in regards of public affection playing suck face with his partner in front of his mother.

She loved him, & never said anything to him about it, but let the rest of us know how much it upset her & broke her heart.

So a gay guy finally feels free enough to be himself around his family, who reject him, and then he announces he isn't actually gay and you see that as proof of a choice. Not that some gay guy doesn't want to lose his family because they don't accept him. Got it.

[feldspar]

I'm sure your gay friends are so happy that you deal with them.

They're my friends, asswipe. Do you think that being a friend means that you have to like everything about them? If so, you'll have no friends.

[JoeMama]

Who the **** cares. Sucked into the gay propaganda movement I see.

It's smart to announce this pre-emptively rather than be outed by a third party later on or be hounded by the rumor mill.

Might as well put an end to it and proceed with his career.

[Bill Cody]

That post was not ignorant or hateful. Just the truth.

If Sam has the ability of Strahan or White he will help a team win, but I just read on profootballtalk.com that even before he came out Sam was regarded as a 3rd rnd pick at best & likely a lower 4th rnd pick.

Sam finds himself in the same boat Tebow does. I believe Tebow would have been on a team last year if not for the Circus that surrounds him. Talk about HATE!

Christian HATERS are much more vocal than Gay bashers & don't get called bigots.

1st off promiscuity is a choice people make, gay or straight. To say otherwise shows your ignorance. If you think you can prove otherwise let's see the evidence. And there are a lot of unintended consequences of unprotected sex for both gays and straights,aids is one, but so are unwanted pregnancies that end in abortions and sexually transmitted diseases. Put a raincoat on it!
And finally two wrongs don't make a right. I don't agree with people hating on Christians any more than I do hating on gays. But let's be honest- the people that use religion to hate on gays have an agenda. There are a ton of other weird things in the Bible that nobody believes or talks about but one reference to gays and it's hate city. People should mind their own damn business.

Sam may be a bust who knows. But Tebow is done in the league and it's because he can't hit the broad side of a barn.

[better days]

I doubt it. He doesn't translate to the NFL well. He'll be very lucky to be "average" in the NFL. He has no position, isn't big enough to play with his hand on the ground, and isn't good in space.




And Tebow did take his team to the 2nd rnd of the playoffs the only chance he really had to play.

- - - Updated - - -


The difference is Sams talent at the NFL level is real, not imagined.

2nd rnd in the playoffs was REAL.

[better days]

The media IS at fault for droning on about the story, since this forced "OMG!" reaction is so 10 years ago.

The coach that drafts him should be allowed to shield the guy from the TMZ media types and keep the circus away from the team.

How can any coach do that anymore than with Tebow?

It can't be done. If Tebow is in the NFL next season, he will draw much of the media attention, but if not, Sam will be THE STORY.

[better days]

1st off promiscuity is a choice people make, gay or straight. To say otherwise shows your ignorance. If you think you can prove otherwise let's see the evidence. And there are a lot of unintended consequences of unprotected sex for both gays and straights,aids is one, but so are unwanted pregnancies that end in abortions and sexually transmitted diseases. Put a raincoat on it!
And finally two wrongs don't make a right. I don't agree with people hating on Christians any more than I do hating on gays. But let's be honest- the people that use religion to hate on gays have an agenda. There are a ton of other weird things in the Bible that nobody believes or talks about but one reference to gays and it's hate city. People should mind their own damn business.

Sam may be a bust who knows. But Tebow is done in the league and it's because he can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Tebow led the Broncos to the 2nd rnd of the playoffs the only year he had a chance to play.

He was not in the NFL last year because of the Circus.

And yes, there is promiscuity in the straight world, but there is much more in the Gay world & any gay will tell you that.

I do not hate gays myself. If a gay player with Reggie White or Bruce Smith ability were available, I would want them on my team.

BUT I do not want a mediocre gay player on my team just to advance the gay cause.

[trapezeus]

Suing the NFL would be gay.

He'd never be able to actually PROVE discrimination either, I would think.

Maybe it'll force some gay policy like the Rooney rule, where every team is forced to tryout a homosexual. Call it the Sam Rule.

I have gay friends, but I sure wouldn't want to shower with them, even in a locker-room. Is that being homophobic? Maybe. People want to act so open-minded, but I figure most straight guys feel the same way, at least in this country.

I agree that it will probably be a distraction to have him on any team. The ideal is that it shouldn't matter at all if he's gay, but all the attention it gets says otherwise...that it DOES matter, for whatever reason. Let's talk all day about something that doesn't matter and call it news...does not add up.

You are in the minority. most hetero guys who have friends who are gay, don't really think of each other in romantic terms. i play in a hockey league where the is a gay team. No one cares. We all change and shower together. You are closed minded and normal people don't care.

and maybe football might want to discrimate against bigots and see how they feel about it. there is a reason we strive for equality...and its because if fair.

[kishoph]

Well, if you are in a communal shower and look over at a guy with a hard-on looking at you, how would that make you feel? How would you react?

So do you think that the gay guys that are in the NFL right now are all in the showers with erections, or will only the guys that have "come out" get a hard on ?

[Bill Cody]

Tebow led the Broncos to the 2nd rnd of the playoffs the only year he had a chance to play.

He was not in the NFL last year because of the Circus.

And yes, there is promiscuity in the straight world, but there is much more in the Gay world & any gay will tell you that.

I do not hate gays myself. If a gay player with Reggie White or Bruce Smith ability were available, I would want them on my team.

BUT I do not want a mediocre gay player on my team just to advance the gay cause.

FACT: Tebow was cut in NE because he was bad at his job. I live in RI and the media was dying for Tebow to make the team but noone was surprised when he wasn't, he looked BAD. Bill Bellichick likes the guy. Bob Kraft said he was pulling for him. A football decision was made that Tebow is worse than Ryan Mallett. Deal with it.

This gay player thing will not be an issue in a few years once the homophobe's realize noones going to be grabbing their johnson in the shower and that they just need to shut up and do their own jobs. And the press will not need to cover it once the novelty wears off. They said there couldn't be gays in the military. Now there is and noone talks about it any more.

[better days]

So a gay guy finally feels free enough to be himself around his family, who reject him, and then he announces he isn't actually gay and you see that as proof of a choice. Not that some gay guy doesn't want to lose his family because they don't accept him. Got it.

I already told you his family did accept him.

I really like him myself. He has a great sense of humor & would give you the shirt off his back.

But I think he could have dressed around his family in a tee shirt or flannel shirt like he did before he came out, not dressed like he was going out to a gay club.

And when we were younger my future wife & I would play suck face in a bar or whatever, but I would never play suck face with my wife in front of her mother because I am sure that would have made her uncomfortable.

And the ironic thing is he waited until his mother was dead before deciding he did not want to be gay anymore so it had nothing to do with acceptance.

[Mindbender]

You are in the minority. most hetero guys who have friends who are gay, don't really think of each other in romantic terms. i play in a hockey league where the is a gay team. No one cares. We all change and shower together. You are closed minded and normal people don't care.

Are you being serious? Lots of people would care. They're all bigots then right?

[pmoon6]

So do you think that the gay guys that are in the NFL right now are all in the showers with erections, or will only the guys that have "come out" get a hard on ?It was a hypothetical.

[better days]

FACT: Tebow was cut in NE because he was bad at his job. I live in RI and the media was dying for Tebow to make the team but noone was surprised when he wasn't, he looked BAD. Bill Bellichick likes the guy. Bob Kraft said he was pulling for him. A football decision was made that Tebow is worse than Ryan Mallett. Deal with it.

This gay player thing will not be an issue in a few years once the homophobe's realize noones going to be grabbing their johnson in the shower and that they just need to shut up and do their own jobs. And the press will not need to cover it once the novelty wears off. They said there couldn't be gays in the military. Now there is and noone talks about it any more.

I'm pretty sure the military is still don't ask, don't tell.

Tebow made a mistake going to NY & then N.E. but it is a FACT he took the Broncos to the playoffs the only time he had the chance to play & everyone should know Tebow is a game day player not a practice player.

[trapezeus]

I'm pretty sure the military is still don't ask, don't tell.

Tebow made a mistake going to NY & then N.E. but it is a FACT he took the Broncos to the playoffs the only time he had the chance to play & everyone should know Tebow is a game day player not a practice player.

for having one magical season that the defense carried him. he's out of the league forever. it has nothing to do with his fundamentalist christian beliefs. it's that he looks like he's throwing with the wrong arm and continues to under impress coaches. He also requires a complete overall of a playbook.

[trapezeus]

Are you being serious? Lots of people would care. They're all bigots then right?

the people who think after playing a sport that all gay guys are looking to bone you in the shower are idiots. And simply saying that statement is stupid.

I suggest you actually play a sport with a gay athlete and tell me if you even think about it. if you do, it's on you. not them. they are playing for the same reasons as you. and at the high end of college and pro level, there is a lot of dedication to get to that point.

but perhaps you are right. we were so nervous about women in the locker room, "what would guys do?" Remember that patriot story in the90's. And people learned from the situation and got over it. and there are more women in the locker room as knowledgable as any other reporter. I haven't heard of any incidents since.

You can try and defend your bigotry so it makes you feel better, but at the end of the day, you'll be on the wrong side of the storyline. The world never moves towards more intolerance, despite how hard a small group may try.

[better days]

for having one magical season that the defense carried him. he's out of the league forever. it has nothing to do with his fundamentalist christian beliefs. it's that he looks like he's throwing with the wrong arm and continues to under impress coaches. He also requires a complete overall of a playbook.

If Tebow were not a fundamentalist Christian, I think there would be a place for him in the NFL.

As I said, he is a game day player & he won when he had the chance to play.

[better days]

the people who think after playing a sport that all gay guys are looking to bone you in the shower are idiots. And simply saying that statement is stupid.

I suggest you actually play a sport with a gay athlete and tell me if you even think about it. if you do, it's on you. not them. they are playing for the same reasons as you. and at the high end of college and pro level, there is a lot of dedication to get to that point.

but perhaps you are right. we were so nervous about women in the locker room, "what would guys do?" Remember that patriot story in the90's. And people learned from the situation and got over it. and there are more women in the locker room as knowledgable as any other reporter. I haven't heard of any incidents since.

You can try and defend your bigotry so it makes you feel better, but at the end of the day, you'll be on the wrong side of the storyline. The world never moves towards more intolerance, despite how hard a small group may try.

There are still players that are not happy with women in the locker room but they can't do anything about it other than to make crude remarks & drop their towel which I have heard players still do.

[JoeMama]

If Tebow were not a fundamentalist Christian, I think there would be a place for him in the NFL.

As I said, he is a game day player & he won when he had the chance to play.

Plenty of guys in the NFL are fundamentalist Christians. Kurt Warner was one.

I'd venture to say the vast majority of players are predominantly Christian or religious in some way, judging solely on post-game interviews.

I think teams shy away from Tim Tebow because his hardcore fans represent a media circus and unwanted baggage. In a perverse way, his fans may be his biggest obstacle to employment in the NFL.

[pmoon6]

Plenty of guys in the NFL are fundamentalist Christians. Kurt Warner is one.

I'd venture to say the vast majority of players are predominantly Christian or religious in some way, judging solely on post-game interviews.

I think teams shy away from Tim Tebow because his hardcore fans represent a media circus and unwanted baggage. In a perverse way, his fans may be his biggest obstacle to employment in the NFL.Exactly. Most teams don't want the "Tebow Effect".

Regardless of what the fluffers will think, that is exactly why some teams will shy away from Sam.

[better days]

Plenty of guys in the NFL are fundamentalist Christians. Kurt Warner was one.

I'd venture to say the vast majority of players are predominantly Christian or religious in some way, judging solely on post-game interviews.

I think teams shy away from Tim Tebow because his hardcore fans represent a media circus and unwanted baggage. In a perverse way, his fans may be his biggest obstacle to employment in the NFL.

I agree & I think Tebow has brought the Circus on himself just as Sam now has.

The spotlight Tebow shined on his faith was too bright for his career to handle.

And I think Sam has shined the light on the gays in the NFL issue & it will be too bright for his NFL career.

It will no doubt affect both of their careers.

[stuckincincy]

And yes, there is promiscuity in the straight world, but there is much more in the Gay world & any gay will tell you that.



That is an absolute fact. On a daily basis, I read the BBC worldwide site. A few month ago, there was an article about porn sites and the British way of dealing with things. They - as is much of Europe - think that you can do something only if there is a law that allows it, as opposed to the generally accepted U.S. view, that if there is no law against it, feel free. That is a critical difference. And we are approaching same, sad to say.

The article said that the British government was going to adopt an "opt in" stance - meaning it you would like to view sexual content, you would have to provide their government with your personal information. The article asked for comment.

A fellow responded, saying that the homosexual life is very much pornographic. That's the thing, IMO. The gay lifestyle is very much about multiple sexual contacts. And in this age of attacking peoples' individual choices, be it smoking cigarettes and the wailing about that as a "cost to society" or whatever, the homosexual life is fraught with disease and tragedy, yet in the minds of some, gets a pass. If you would care to, look into where medical research dollars go, look into how much research $$$ goes into HIV, compared to other things. It's astounding, and far out of proportion.

As one looks things up, look up about the vicious attacks launched against anyone with an iota of public presence says a peep about homosexuality.

I don't care if goats penetrate ducks. What I do care about is if goats penetrate ducks with such frequency that it becomes a valid public health concern.

I'm also tired about the current crowd that is quick to scream racism, bigotry, bias, etc. They yell about fairness, but are quick to censure anyone who voices one word in opposition to their shrill screed.

They should digest the wisdom of the late Associate Justice Robt. Jackson, in his dissenting opinion re Gobitis vs. Barnett, viz, "...Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves eliminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion only achieves the unanimity of the graveyard."

[k-oneputt]

They now have a betting line out on his draft position.
over/uder 125.5.

That's f-d up but I'll take the over.

[better days]

That is an absolute fact. On a daily basis, I read the BBC worldwide site. A few month ago, there was an article about porn sites and the British way of dealing with things. They - as is much of Europe - think that you can do something only if there is a law that allows it, as opposed to the generally accepted U.S. view, that if there is no law against it, feel free. That is a critical difference. And we are approaching same, sad to say.

The article said that the British government was going to adopt an "opt in" stance - meaning it you would like to view sexual content, you would have to provide their government with your personal information. The article asked for comment.

A fellow responded, saying that the homosexual life is very much pornographic. That's the thing, IMO. The gay lifestyle is very much about multiple sexual contacts. And in this age of attacking peoples' individual choices, be it smoking cigarettes and the wailing about that as a "cost to society" or whatever, the homosexual life is fraught with disease and tragedy, yet in the minds of some, gets a pass. If you would care to, look into where medical research dollars go, look into how much research $$$ goes into HIV, compared to other things. It's astounding, and far out of proportion.

As one looks things up, look up about the vicious attacks launched against anyone with an iota of public presence says a peep about homosexuality.

I don't care if goats penetrate ducks. What I do care about is if goats penetrate ducks with such frequency that it becomes a valid public health concern.

I'm also tired about the current crowd that is quick to scream racism, bigotry, bias, etc. They yell about fairness, but are quick to censure anyone who voices one word in opposition to their shrill screed.

They should digest the wisdom of the late Associate Justice Robt. Jackson, in his dissenting opinion re Gobitis vs. Barnett, viz, "...Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves eliminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion only achieves the unanimity of the graveyard."

The guy from Duck Dynasty on TV is a perfect example. Censured & taken off the air for expressing his view.

[K-Gun]

What a hilarious thread, the same dudes that are saying that there's no such thing as discrimination against gay people are saying that a gay man shouldn't be allowed to play professional sports because they wouldn't want to shower with them.

Forgive me for pointing out the utter contradiciton in the logic, but at least admitt you think its ok to discriminate against gay people. Its one way or the other.

And as far as the complete stupidity of making this a conversation about showers, it is 2014, do you really think there are communal showers in NFL locker rooms? I think individual shower stalls are in the budget. Maybe not at the Ralaph, but come on.

What dude here wants to shower with straight men? Really? You guys want to get all sopaed up with 52 other dudes, just so long as they promise not to admit it?

[K-Gun]

That is an absolute fact. On a daily basis, I read the BBC worldwide site. A few month ago, there was an article about porn sites and the British way of dealing with things. They - as is much of Europe - think that you can do something only if there is a law that allows it, as opposed to the generally accepted U.S. view, that if there is no law against it, feel free. That is a critical difference. And we are approaching same, sad to say.

The article said that the British government was going to adopt an "opt in" stance - meaning it you would like to view sexual content, you would have to provide their government with your personal information. The article asked for comment.

A fellow responded, saying that the homosexual life is very much pornographic. That's the thing, IMO. The gay lifestyle is very much about multiple sexual contacts. And in this age of attacking peoples' individual choices, be it smoking cigarettes and the wailing about that as a "cost to society" or whatever, the homosexual life is fraught with disease and tragedy, yet in the minds of some, gets a pass. If you would care to, look into where medical research dollars go, look into how much research $$$ goes into HIV, compared to other things. It's astounding, and far out of proportion.

As one looks things up, look up about the vicious attacks launched against anyone with an iota of public presence says a peep about homosexuality.

I don't care if goats penetrate ducks. What I do care about is if goats penetrate ducks with such frequency that it becomes a valid public health concern.

I'm also tired about the current crowd that is quick to scream racism, bigotry, bias, etc. They yell about fairness, but are quick to censure anyone who voices one word in opposition to their shrill screed.

They should digest the wisdom of the late Associate Justice Robt. Jackson, in his dissenting opinion re Gobitis vs. Barnett, viz, "...Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves eliminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion only achieves the unanimity of the graveyard."

Funny, coming from a guy who's signature quotes a proponent of genocide as the solution to society's problems. Anyways, your opinion that the "gay lifestyle" endorses promiscuity is just as ironic, considering “the gay community” is fighting for laws that allow them to enter into legally recognized monogamous marriages.

[better days]

What a hilarious thread, the same dudes that are saying that there's no such thing as discrimination against gay people are saying that a gay man shouldn't be allowed to play professional sports because they wouldn't want to shower with them.

Forgive me for pointing out the utter contradiciton in the logic, but at least admitt you think its ok to discriminate against gay people. Its one way or the other.

And as far as the complete stupidity of making this a conversation about showers, it is 2014, do you really think there are communal showers in NFL locker rooms? I think individual shower stalls are in the budget. Maybe not at the Ralaph, but come on.

What dude here wants to shower with straight men? Really? You guys want to get all sopaed up with 52 other dudes, just so long as they promise not to admit it?

Who said gays are not discriminated against?

Discrimination is rampant throughout society.

Women discriminate against guys that are short, fat, bald & drive crappy cars.

Being left handed, I am discriminated all the time. The world revolves around right handed people.

Tools are made for right handed people as are school desks & musical instruments.

[swiper]

This is the best we have to talk about?

Man I hate the Winter Olympics.

[better days]

Funny, coming from a guy who's signature quotes a proponent of genocide as the solution to society's problems. Anyways, your opinion that the "gay lifestyle" endorses promiscuity is just as ironic, considering “the gay community” is fighting for laws that allow them to enter into legally recognized monogamous marriages.

Just because they want to get married does not mean they do not want to also be promiscuous.

They just want the legal benefits of married people.

[Bill Cody]

I'm pretty sure the military is still don't ask, don't tell.

Not so much. It was repealed effective September 2011.


Tebow made a mistake going to NY & then N.E. but it is a FACT he took the Broncos to the playoffs the only time he had the chance to play & everyone should know Tebow is a game day player not a practice player.

He sucked in the preseason games with NE too. If he had something significant to offer he would have a job now.

[mayotm]

Love thy neighbor.....as long as thy neighbor believes exactly what I believe.

[better days]

Not so much. It was repealed effective September 2011.



He sucked in the preseason games with NE too. If he had something significant to offer he would have a job now.

Tebow did not show enough in preseason with the Pats* to offset the Circus that comes with him.

And so the military is now about expressing your homosexual orientation?

[Meathead]

Let's just assume that the women aren't physically threatened. Can I shower with the cheerleaders, or are they bigots if they'd prefer not to? I promise not to hurt them.

yeah especially when im providing them with a convenient place to hang their washcloth

[stuckincincy]

Just because they want to get married does not mean they do not want to also be promiscuous.

They just want the legal benefits of married people.

Why did common law marriages go away? Folks that were together, stable, still love each other, were decreed not married.

[Meathead]

Well, if you are in a communal shower and look over at a guy with a hard-on looking at you, how would that make you feel? How would you react?

ask him if he can hold my soap on a rope?

[Meathead]

wouldnt bother me in the least to shower with a fudge packer but also dont think its automatically homophobic not to want to. the showering with the cheerleaders comparision is appropriate i think bc most females probably wouldnt mind showering with a known gay man but would be uncomfortable with straight men being there

so i say if we intend to force straight men to shower with gay men then i demand my constitutional right to access to the cheerleader shower. we shall overcum!

[better days]

Why did common law marriages go away? Folks that were together, stable, still love each other, were decreed not married.

Exactly. It is all bout legal/financial benefits.

[stuckincincy]

wouldnt bother me in the least to shower with a fudge packer but also dont think its automatically homophobic not to want to. the showering with the cheerleaders comparision is appropriate i think bc most females probably wouldnt mind showering with a known gay man but would be uncomfortable with straight men being there

so i say if we intend to force straight men to shower with gay men then i demand my constitutional right to access to the cheerleader shower. we shall overcum!


If you are a school child in California, a law signed by Governor Moonbeam gives access to any kid who declares themselves "transgender" to step into the shower with your son or daughter:

http://townhall.com/columnists/rebeccahagelin/2013/10/29/california-strips-privacy-from-kids-the-coed-bathroom-law-n1732783/page/full

[jdaltroy5]

That's hilarious, I can just hear the comments of his teammates after they found out.

"I mean, Mike has always stood in the corner, creepily staring at us and aggressively masturbating. But I didn't think he was gay. Now that I know he's gay, I'll feel a little weird about it."

If you've ever worked out at a gym, played on a sports team, or took high school gym class, I assure you, you've showered with multiple gay men.

[MidnightVoice]

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/10/nfl_executives_respond_to_michael_sams_coming_out_with_cynical_homophobia/

In response to Michael Sam’s historic decision to come out as gay in advance of the May NFL draft, several league executives and other personnel decided to match his courage by anonymously coming out as cynical homophobes. :D

[feldspar]

What a hilarious thread, the same dudes that are saying that there's no such thing as discrimination against gay people are saying that a gay man shouldn't be allowed to play professional sports because they wouldn't want to shower with them.

Forgive me for pointing out the utter contradiciton in the logic, but at least admitt you think its ok to discriminate against gay people. Its one way or the other.


The hilarious part is that nobody ever said that there's no such thing as discrimination, and nobody ever said that a gay man shouldn't be allowed to play professional sports.

Nobody even suggested such things.

[Meathead]

If you are a school child in California, a law signed by Governor Moonbeam gives access to any kid who declares themselves "transgender" to step into the shower with your son or daughter:

http://townhall.com/columnists/rebeccahagelin/2013/10/29/california-strips-privacy-from-kids-the-coed-bathroom-law-n1732783/page/full

fine

i declare myself transgender and demand immediate access to the cheerleader shower

all joking aside, this is one issue i can see both sides. if you have a legit transgender child then of course you want them treated with respect and have access to the same facilities as other kids. otoh, if you are a traditionalist that doesnt condemn homosexuality et al but simply dont want your children showering with different genders or sexual preferences then you should have that right, too

idk what the solution there would be except things like three showers (girls, boys, other) or one shower (european style). tough question

[Meathead]

They now have a betting line out on his draft position.
over/uder 125.5.


so what was he projected before coming out, like early third round? so that would be about 65th, meaning this betting line says his outing will cost him another two rounds

frankly i would take the over too. waaay over. i wouldnt be surprised if he goes very late or undrafted. being the first time the nfl is forced to deal with this isnt going to be pretty

[better days]

fine

i declare myself transgender and demand immediate access to the cheerleader shower

all joking aside, this is one issue i can see both sides. if you have a legit transgender child then of course you want them treated with respect and have access to the same facilities as other kids. otoh, if you are a traditionalist that doesnt condemn homosexuality et al but simply dont want your children showering with different genders or sexual preferences then you should have that right, too

idk what the solution there would be except things like three showers (girls, boys, other) or one shower (european style). tough question

The other option is home school.

[jdaltroy5]

I also find it funny that one group of people are saying that he's not courageous and you're sick of the gay movement being shoved down your throat while simultaneously saying that he won't get drafted because of the circus that will follow him.

He is courageous because he's risking his career by coming out. It could hurt his draft stock which in turn could cost him millions of dollars.

It's really too bad that he will have to deal with the endless questions and media and fan scrutiny, but fortunately he's doing it so the next guys won't have to.

[better days]

I also find it funny that one group of people are saying that he's not courageous and you're sick of the gay movement being shoved down your throat while simultaneously saying that he won't get drafted because of the circus that will follow him.

He is courageous because he's risking his career by coming out. It could hurt his draft stock which in turn could cost him millions of dollars.

It's really too bad that he will have to deal with the endless questions and media and fan scrutiny, but fortunately he's doing it so the next guys won't have to.

It looks like he came out now because he was afraid of being outed later.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Kid has guts. He was SEC co-defensive player of the year.

Now the NFL will be watched closely to see if he goes undrafted.

He was a terror this past season, I'm not saying he should be drafted or not drafted because of his sexual preference, but I would love to have him in camp because of what he could do to our opponent's rushing and passing attacks. He's worth a look.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Good for him, I hope this encourages more gay football players to come forward.

I've always hoped Tom Brady would always state what was patently obvious. Then he and Phil Simms wouldn't have to hide it anymore.

[feldspar]

I also find it funny that one group of people are saying that he's not courageous and you're sick of the gay movement being shoved down your throat while simultaneously saying that he won't get drafted because of the circus that will follow him.

He is courageous because he's risking his career by coming out. It could hurt his draft stock which in turn could cost him millions of dollars.

It's really too bad that he will have to deal with the endless questions and media and fan scrutiny, but fortunately he's doing it so the next guys won't have to.

Actually, he's coming out because people already knew, and it was going to be revealed anyway. He thought it would be better to be upfront about it than have certain people find out a different way from someone else.

[Turf]

Ever see old video of those *******s in Alabama protesting integration in the 60's?

That's you.

History will not smile fondly on you 20 years from now. You're on the side of the bad guys and you are going to lose.

You are going to get ****ed in the ass by the "Gay Propoganda Movement" so better lube up and prepare your excuses for why you were such a bigot back in the day.


I'm not protesting anything. Were did that come from, your gay sensitivity training? I said I don't give a ****.

[better days]

Actually, he's coming out because people already knew, and it was going to be revealed anyway. He thought it would be better to be upfront about it than have certain people find out a different way from someone else.

Exactly.

[jdaltroy5]

Actually, he's coming out because people already knew, and it was going to be revealed anyway. He thought it would be better to be upfront about it than have certain people find out a different way from someone else.
How did people find out to begin with?

Did they catch him with a hard on the shower or did he tell them?

[Bill Cody]

Exactly. It is all bout legal/financial benefits.

which they should be entitled to like anybody else

[Bill Cody]

If Tebow were not a fundamentalist Christian, I think there would be a place for him in the NFL.



I agree the NFL doesn't like his fundamentals but it's not the Christian part

[better days]

which they should be entitled to like anybody else

Why should they be ENTITLED?

A man & woman living together in sin are not entitled to anything so why should two men living in sin be entitled?

[Bill Cody]

Tebow did not show enough in preseason with the Pats* to offset the Circus that comes with him.
Believe that if it makes you feel better but Ryan Mallet was just better


And so the military is now about expressing your homosexual orientation?

If you say so. I don't see it that way at all. Gays have always been in the military. The only difference now is they can't be kicked out for it. It's been two years and it has been so non consequential you didn't even know it had happened.

[Bill Cody]

Why should they be ENTITLED?

A man & woman living together in sin are not entitled to anything so why should two men living in sin be entitled?

If you're married you're married. Why should you be entitled to something more? Because you're "better"?

[jdaltroy5]

Why should they be ENTITLED?

A man & woman living together in sin are not entitled to anything so why should two men living in sin be entitled?
What about common law status?

And they are only living in "sin" because they aren't legally allowed to get married.

[K-Gun]

The NFL is saying the league is ready: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000324654/article/wade-davis-on-michael-sam-nfl-is-ready-for-gay-player

btw, Vince Lombardi protected and loved players that were gay on his team: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/03/vince-lombardi-accepted-gay-players-on-his-team/

[Stewie]

They're my friends, asswipe. Do you think that being a friend means that you have to like everything about them? If so, you'll have no friends.

Wooooosh.

[Stewie]

I already told you his family did accept him.

I really like him myself. He has a great sense of humor & would give you the shirt off his back.

But I think he could have dressed around his family in a tee shirt or flannel shirt like he did before he came out, not dressed like he was going out to a gay club.

And when we were younger my future wife & I would play suck face in a bar or whatever, but I would never play suck face with my wife in front of her mother because I am sure that would have made her uncomfortable.

And the ironic thing is he waited until his mother was dead before deciding he did not want to be gay anymore so it had nothing to do with acceptance.

Lying to your face then publicly lamenting you behind your back is not support.

[Famous Amos]

Who said gays are not discriminated against?

Discrimination is rampant throughout society.

Women discriminate against guys that are short, fat, bald & drive crappy cars.

Being left handed, I am discriminated all the time. The world revolves around right handed people.

Tools are made for right handed people as are school desks & musical instruments.

Just to be clear, here's the definition of discriminate, taken from google search results.
make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, sex, or age.



All right, I'm curious: how are you discriminated against for being a lefty? I am a lefty and very rarely have people on purpose made an unjust distinction in how i was treated vs. right handed people. Aside from never having a left handed hockey stick in gym class and other things that I wasn't accommodated for, I just adapted to using right handed things like scissors, computer mice, cars, etc.

[Famous Amos]

The promiscuity argument is weird. Is it unique to homosexuals that only they like to have multiple partners, possibly at the same time? Straights like that are called players, right? I don't get that thought process.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Herm Edwards, February 2013

http://www.outsports.com/2013/2/28/4054392/herm-edwards-nfl-ready-for-gay-athlete-and-as-coach-he-would-support
Is the NFL ready for an openly gay football player?

I think it is. I would have no problem with that as a coach or even as a football player. That wouldn't bother me. You're drafting a guy who already can play football. And if he's a good football player, if he can tackle, catch and run, score touchdowns, come on, get in the huddle and let's go.

http://deadspin.com/herm-edwards-suggests-mike-sam-is-bringing-baggage-in-1519691334
Herm Edwards, February 2014

The thing you talk about within the organization, and obviously with the owner is 'Can we handle this guy? Can we handle the media that's gonna go along with this situation?' He's bringing baggage into your locker room. When you think about Michael Sam, all of a sudden, can the players handle the media attention they are gonna get?

Way to make a principled stand, Herm.

[DraftBoy]

Why should they be ENTITLED?

A man & woman living together in sin are not entitled to anything so why should two men living in sin be entitled?

Actually they are if they meet common law requirements for their state.

[ckg927]

I don't care what owners, gm's and teams say in front of the camera, I think this will definitely hurt his draft position.

Here's the problem: GM's and team personnel have already been saying this BS. SI had a story on this on their website. They didn't even have the balls to put their names to it.

[ckg927]

Guys like Chris Carter and Emmitt Smith have commented on having an openly gay man in an NFL locker room. They said the NFL is not ready for that yet and the player would not be accepted by his teammates.

Moon: First, Sam's teammates at Mizzou had zero problems with him being gay. Second, a poll was done a decade ago that found a majority of NFL players wouldn't have a problem having a teammate who is gay.

[Albany,n.y.]

Why should they be ENTITLED?

A man & woman living together in sin are not entitled to anything so why should two men living in sin be entitled?

"Living in sin"? What year are you living in? It certainly isn't 2014.

[Gibby 2]

already sick of this story- the media hypes the gay life so much. I don't approve and I don't want to hear about it. I just turn the channel- pretty soon I won't be watching TV at all. I don't care really what people do with their lives- it's their mistake- I just don't want it crammed down my throat everytime I open a paper or get online or turn on the news.

[TacklingDummy]

Personally, I don't have a problem having a gay guy in a communal shower with me, but just because others chose not to doesn't make them bigots or homophobes.

.
Personally I have a problem with showering with any man, gay or straight.
College and Pro Football are billion dollar industries.
There's no reason they can't afford showers that give everyone a little privacy.

[Mindbender]

How did people find out to begin with?

Did they catch him with a hard on the shower or did he tell them?

The articles I read said he told a few close friends. It was also known he was dating a guy on the swim team I think.

[ckg927]

already sick of this story- the media hypes the gay life so much. I don't approve and I don't want to hear about it. I just turn the channel- pretty soon I won't be watching TV at all. I don't care really what people do with their lives- it's their mistake- I just don't want it crammed down my throat everytime I open a paper or get online or turn on the news.

Well, we're being crammed with hetero PDA virtually every day, too...mind telling us where your outrage is over that?

- - - Updated - - -


The articles I read said he told a few close friends. It was also known he was dating a guy on the swim team I think.

If memory serves, he also told his Mizzou teammates this year before the season began as part of a team trust exercise.

[better days]

What about common law status?

And they are only living in "sin" because they aren't legally allowed to get married.

NO, it is a sin against Gods law for two men to be together. According to God, two men can not marry.

And even if the Atheists don't like it, this Country was founded on CHRISTIAN principals.

[better days]

The promiscuity argument is weird. Is it unique to homosexuals that only they like to have multiple partners, possibly at the same time? Straights like that are called players, right? I don't get that thought process.

Straight males are called players.

Straight females are called sluts.

a double standard.

[better days]

Lying to your face then publicly lamenting you behind your back is not support.

What the Hell are you talking about?

[DraftBoy]

The articles I read said he told a few close friends. It was also known he was dating a guy on the swim team I think.

He told his entire team in August before the season ever began. It never leaked.

[DraftBoy]

This thread in general makes me sad for humanity. We still have a VERY long way to go my friends.

[Joe Fo Sho]

NO, it is a sin against Gods law for two men to be together. According to God, two men can not marry.

And even if the Atheists don't like it, this Country was founded on CHRISTIAN principals.

Hahaha, what year do you think it is?

[Meathead]

It was also known he was dating a guy on the swim team I think.

the only way this could be more shocking is if it was a guy on the figure skating team

[feldspar]

He told his entire team in August before the season ever began. It never leaked.

You're both right from what I've read. He told some friends, dated a guy from the swim team, then informed his whole team this year...of course, some of them already knew. Everybody had to stand up and give some information about themselves in a team meeting, and he said "I'm gay." That's what I read. Of course all this, coupled with rumors and how NFL teams interview everybody they can while scouting players, kind of made his coming out publicly more of a logical decision. They'd find out anyway.

How courageous is that when he is being applauded by so many people that would like to hoist him on their shoulders for doing it? I don't know because he'll catch hell in a lot of ways too. I'd say he's brave. He's going to need that, and also need to have a thick skin. Right or wrong, this is a huge media event and will continue to be. EVERYBODY is going to want to follow the story from Good Morning America to Good Housekeeping to Entertainment Tonight...all rooting for him while exploiting him at the same time.

[Mace]

I'm sort of surprised it was mentioned only in passing a couple times, but he's not an enormous talent, being considered too weak and smallish for DE and not fast enough for OLB, he's sort of lucky maybe even on being drafted.

He's gay, ok. Whatever. If Manuel decided to come out and insisted on wearing blonde Pippi Longstocking braids and dress every postgame, there'd probably be 25,000 people a week who wore them too in Bills facepaint if he was the 2nd coming of Aaron Rodgers, or even the 3rd coming of Jim Kelly.

I had a gay friend a long time. He always told me the most homophobic people were the people the worst gay slut wouldn't waste a moment looking at. Found it to be true. In our group of 5 weekend partiers, I always ended up arguing with him at 5am over diner breakfast, that his being gay, and becoming emotional about the ramifications of it, would have always and ever meant more to my spirited defense, had he not always insisted on bringing it up at 5am over breakfast when we were all hammered and more concerned about figuring out who owed what in the bill.

It was a stand someone had to make. I give Sam credit for it when he probably already figures it's largely irrelevant to his maybe career as a pro.

If he becomes a freaking defensive terror for someone, which odds are, he won't, his teammates are going to "meh" at it, since they mostly walk around reporters, teammates and various other wandering ballboys (ho ho), naked without worrying much about it.

It's a huge story non story for bored people.

[jdaltroy5]

The articles I read said he told a few close friends. It was also known he was dating a guy on the swim team I think.
The article I read said that he told the coaching staff and that most teammates knew about it.

Either way, he still came out to people and wasn't hiding it.

[ckg927]

NO, it is a sin against Gods law for two men to be together. According to God, two men can not marry.

And even if the Atheists don't like it, this Country was founded on CHRISTIAN principals.

It's also a sin to eat shellfish, among many other things. Yet Christians still do this even today.

So where's God to rain down hellfire and brimstone on us?

[Mace]

It's also a sin to eat shellfish, among many other things. Yet Christians still do this even today.

So where's God to rain down hellfire and brimstone on us?

Oh it's SO coming Mister. Never realized shellfish were an issue, but don't like them anyway so....

[jdaltroy5]

NO, it is a sin against Gods law for two men to be together. According to God, two men can not marry.

And even if the Atheists don't like it, this Country was founded on CHRISTIAN principals.Please show me in the Bible where it says that.

And I love how Christians pick and choose which part of the Bible they want to follow.

Have you ever eaten shellfish or pork, thrown a pigskin football, worn synthetic material or gold, had a round haircut, masturbated or wasted your seed in other ways?

All against the Bible.

Also, have you ever heard the expression "separation of Church and State"?

[Mace]

Have you ever eaten shellfish or pork, thrown a pigskin football, worn synthetic material or gold, had a round haircut, masturbated or wasted your seed in other ways?


Hm, no. You had a round haircut did you ?

[Gibby 2]

Well, we're being crammed with hetero PDA virtually every day, too...mind telling us where your outrage is over that?



- - - Updated - - -



If memory serves, he also told his Mizzou teammates this year before the season began as part of a team trust exercise.


Why would I be outraged about it, it's normal. Why does the dude have to "announce" he's gay? Are the hetero guys "announcing" they're straight? Just go about his business and not try to put it "out there" like they are always doing. They wanna be treated equally then act like it.

[JoeMama]

Why does the dude have to "announce" he's gay? Are the hetero guys "announcing" they're straight? Just go about his business and not try to put it "out there" like they are always doing. They wanna be treated equally then act like it.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/facepalm6.gif (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/JoeMama025/media/facepalm6.gif.html)

[JoeMama]

btw, Vince Lombardi protected and loved players that were gay on his team: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/03/vince-lombardi-accepted-gay-players-on-his-team/


Dave Kopay, the first former NFL player to come out, also played on those 1969 Redskins, and he says that while he never told Lombardi, he believes Lombardi knew not only that Kopay was gay, but that Kopay and another Redskins player, Jerry Smith, were in a romantic relationship.

“Lombardi protected and loved Jerry,” Kopay told O’Connor.

Lombardi’s brother Harold was gay, and when Harold died in July of 2011 he was survived by his partner of 41 years — meaning their relationship began just before Vince died in September of 1970. As noted by Doug Farrar of Yahoo! Sports, Vince knew Harold was gay and didn’t just believe in “tolerance” but believed strongly that discrimination against gay people was wrong, just as he was angered when he saw mistreatment of his black players, or discrimination against his fellow Italian-Americans.

Wow. Vince must've a stand up guy to look out for his players like that. Especially in that day and age.

[Rob's House]

It's funny how the locker room and shower aspects make this so controversial. Am I the only one who thinks it's a little gay that these guys shower together in the first place? I mean these are millionaires working for a $billion franchise in a $billion facility and they can't spring for shower curtains?

[JoeMama]

It's funny how the locker room and shower aspects make this so controversial. Am I the only one who thinks it's a little gay that these guys shower together in the first place? I mean these are millionaires working for a $billion franchise in a $billion facility and they can't spring for shower curtains?


Yeah, you've got 53+ naked dudes bathing together who are like, "Hey! Who brought the queer to our naked dude party???"

Communal showers are the worst. A bunch of dudes walking around nude like they're living the god damn summer of love. Get some clothes on and shower at your house.

[Albany,n.y.]

NO, it is a sin against Gods law for two men to be together. According to God, two men can not marry.

And even if the Atheists don't like it, this Country was founded on CHRISTIAN principals.

Then obviously Christian principals include owning black people as slaves, since the founders of this country were slave owners. Boy I'm glad I was never a Christian, because I just can't imagine wanting to own black people.

[K-Gun]

Wow. Vince must've a stand up guy to look out for his players like that. Especially in that day and age.

"In 1969, Lombardi’s Redskins included a running back named Ray McDonald, who in 1968 had been arrested for having sex with another man in public. In the Lombardi biography When Pride Still Mattered, author David Maraniss writes that Lombardi told his assistants he wanted them to work with McDonald to help him make the team, 'And if I hear one of you people make reference to his manhood, you’ll be out of here before your ass hits the ground.'"

[Mike13]

Here's the problem: GM's and team personnel have already been saying this BS. SI had a story on this on their website. They didn't even have the balls to put their names to it.

Peter King didnt have the balls to name them anyway.

[Rob's House]

Yeah, you've got 53+ naked dudes bathing together who are like, "Hey! Who brought the queer to our naked dude party???"


:lol:
That should be a scene on Southpark.

[Rob's House]

Peter King didnt have the balls to name them anyway.

He probably didn't think it was worth tanking his career over. There's having balls and then there's being foolish.

[Mike13]

It's funny how the locker room and shower aspects make this so controversial. Am I the only one who thinks it's a little gay that these guys shower together in the first place? I mean these are millionaires working for a $billion franchise in a $billion facility and they can't spring for shower curtains?

And then there is the totally not gay mass workout with young sweaty in shape men who run around in their underwear.

[BuffaloRedleg]

We had the same issue in the military and people were freaking out about how tough out it would be to deal with essentially the same issue as this, only in combat. You know, where lives are actually at stake and not a silly game. Guess what? Nobody gives a **** and it's been absolutely fine.

Just because it's easier to not have gay guys in football in the locker room doesn't make it right. How difficult it will be to curb homophobic behavior detrimental to the team shouldn't even be part of the conversation. I don't care what your job is... military or pro football player... you have a reasonable expectation that you should not be discriminated against in your workplace. You can't just say "boys will be boys" and laugh it off, these are fricken laws.

Any leader on a football team, coach or otherwise, who can't keep this behavior from occurring or refuses to sign a gay player because of the potential for conflict is a flat out coward.

[Ed]

This thread in general makes me sad for humanity. We still have a VERY long way to go my friends.
Most of us are there. The rest will die off soon enough.

[feldspar]

This thread in general makes me sad for humanity. We still have a VERY long way to go my friends.

You weren't sad for humanity before this?

[Albany,n.y.]

The logic is you don't have to worry another straight guy is going to be attracted to you if you drop the bar of soap.

Why would you worry about someone else being attracted to you unless you fear you would be attracted back? Do you think all the women in the work force worry that all their male co-workers are walking around aroused every time they walk by?
You can't come up with a rational argument so you hide behind your religion and fear the "sinners". You're one of the people the other posters are talking about when they say we have a long way to go.

[better days]

Why would you worry about someone else being attracted to you unless you fear you would be attracted back? Do you think all the women in the work force worry that all their male co-workers are walking around aroused every time they walk by?
You can't come up with a rational argument so you hide behind your religion and fear the "sinners". You're one of the people the other posters are talking about when they say we have a long way to go.

Well, I agree we have a long way to go.

When a person like Tim Tebow is attacked & ridiculed as he has been on this board & a Gay guy is heralded as courageous because he comes out, We have a LONG way to go.

[better days]

And while I do not advocate bashing or discriminating against gays, I think it is crazy that the people that are most offended by anyone that does not agree with their point of view, find it perfectly acceptable to bash & ridicule Christians.

[YardRat]

All you guys are checking me out whenever I post. Don't deny it, I know you are...I can feel it.

[whkfc]

So what? Had I known, it would have made me uncomfortable. Kill me.

Maybe they should let me shower with the women, and then lay some kind of guilt trip on them if they are uncomfortable about it. In fact, I'm all for that idea. How do you feel about that? Would the women have a point, or would they be Archie Bunker bigots if they would prefer not to get naked with me?

I'm not all up-in-arms about it, but it would be an issue.

Have not ready anything after this. But this is already the best post of the thread.

[GingerP]

Wow. Vince must've a stand up guy to look out for his players like that. Especially in that day and age.

Lombardi was sensitive to discrimination of any kind, because as an Italian Catholic he was a victim of it growing up. He wouldn't stand for discrimination of any kind be based on race, religion or sexual preference. He felt he would have been given a HC opportunity sooner if not for his Italian heritage. He applied for HC opportunities at Notre Dame, Wake Forest and other colleges but in many cases never even received a reply.

[jdaltroy5]

Well, I agree we have a long way to go.

When a person like Tim Tebow is attacked & ridiculed as he has been on this board & a Gay guy is heralded as courageous because he comes out, We have a LONG way to go.
Tim Tebow is attacked and ridiculed because he's not good at throwing a football and he played for TWO of our division rivals.

Hell, half the time, the first thing you hear out of a player's mouth after a game is something about God. No one bats an eye.

[DraftBoy]

You weren't sad for humanity before this?

Hit and miss most days. This Sam announcement though has brought out the worst in people.

[DynaPaul]

Right on. I couldn't care less about his sexual orientation but I'm more concerned about his performance on the field. If he comes into the league and develops into a player then good for him.

[better days]

Tim Tebow is attacked and ridiculed because he's not good at throwing a football and he played for TWO of our division rivals.

Hell, half the time, the first thing you hear out of a player's mouth after a game is something about God. No one bats an eye.

BS. Tebow has been ridiculed for his religion & the attention he brings to it on this board.

[trapezeus]

And while I do not advocate bashing or discriminating against gays, I think it is crazy that the people that are most offended by anyone that does not agree with their point of view, find it perfectly acceptable to bash & ridicule Christians.

because people can choose not to believe in a made up story and think it's righteousness. People can't pick their sexual orientation. Don't you think if you could pick, you'd avoid having to deal with people who hate you....specificially religious people who have no proof on what their beliefs are?

[better days]

because people can choose not to believe in a made up story and think it's righteousness. People can't pick their sexual orientation. Don't you think if you could pick, you'd avoid having to deal with people who hate you....specificially religious people who have no proof on what their beliefs are?

It is just as hard today, maybe harder for people with religious conviction to stand up to the Atheists & heathens & defend their religion

as it is to come out as gay.

[Meathead]

Personally I have a problem with showering with any man, gay or straight.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_XuDw9XbmaemGE-zI9jSTcAU3jRxysP17xiW1NjhsJ_nc-d0BsA

[better days]

because people can choose not to believe in a made up story and think it's righteousness. People can't pick their sexual orientation. Don't you think if you could pick, you'd avoid having to deal with people who hate you....specificially religious people who have no proof on what their beliefs are?

And where is the HATE for the Gays? I have not seen any hate for Sam in 10 pages of this thread.

BUT I have seen hate for Christians in this thread.

[Meathead]

It is just as hard today, maybe harder for people with religious conviction to stand up to the Atheists & heathens & defend their religion

as it is to come out as gay.

depends on what they are standing up against

if a religious traditionalist doesnt want to have to shower with gays thats one thing. but if they want to push an agenda that gayness is sin thats quite another

every other major sin mentioned in the bible has logical roots that are easily explained

stealing - hurts others by taking things they earned and impacts their ability to get and keep things they need
lying - cant trust and therefore establish productive relationships with someone who habitually lies
adultery - betrayal is highly destructive to a committed relationship and hurts everyone around it
violence - the roots of anarchy and total social dysfunction
murder - duh

homosexuality - uh ... well lets see ... uh we cant make babies? actually i guess we have enough of those already. ok then how about its not in the animal kingdom so its unnatural? oh wait its all over the animal kingdom. ok then how about it weakens traditional families, though i cant actually say how. ok then how about bc it says so in the bible, although i guess it also says we need to kill adulterers in the center of town and bury any plates we use for pork in the ground so credibility of literal interpretation is severely suspect. um, i guess thats all i got

responsible homosexuality hurts NO ONE. resistance to it is purely emotional. why in the hell would any 'god' give a crap about who you swap genital juices with? this is a HUMAN created objection that should NOT be included with the other obviously bad sins we should avoid

[Meathead]

I just can't imagine wanting to own black people.

well if they had any of these in stock ...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTM1777bbS_UYTR2eqU9_gAE7FiB8J-MAZ58-rbLxVIygi3MuySzw

[pmoon6]

depends on what they are standing up against

if a religious traditionalist doesnt want to have to shower with gays thats one thing. but if they want to push an agenda that gayness is sin thats quite another

every other major sin mentioned in the bible has logical roots that are easily explained

stealing - hurts others by taking things they earned and impacts their ability to get and keep things they need
lying - cant trust and therefore establish productive relationships with someone who habitually lies
adultery - betrayal is highly destructive to a committed relationship and hurts everyone around it
violence - the roots of anarchy and total social dysfunction
murder - duh

homosexuality - uh ... well lets see ... uh we cant make babies? actually i guess we have enough of those already. ok then how about its not in the animal kingdom so its unnatural? oh wait its all over the animal kingdom. ok then how about it weakens traditional families, though i cant actually say how. ok then how about bc it says so in the bible, although i guess it also says we need to kill adulterers in the center of town and bury any plates we use for pork in the ground so credibility of literal interpretation is severely suspect. um, i guess thats all i got

responsible homosexuality hurts NO ONE. resistance to it is purely emotional. why in the hell would any 'god' give a crap about who you swap genital juices with? this is a HUMAN created objection that should NOT be included with the other obviously bad sins we should avoidAbberant sexual behavior is the new civil rights movement because the brainwashed, impotent liberal is left with nothing to ***** about.

You have a black man in the White House, probably a woman in 2016. They are losing the counterculture fist pump that made them unique.

I pity the fools, now their focus is to quash any decent that would thwart the modern Utopia.

[better days]

depends on what they are standing up against

if a religious traditionalist doesnt want to have to shower with gays thats one thing. but if they want to push an agenda that gayness is sin thats quite another

every other major sin mentioned in the bible has logical roots that are easily explained

stealing - hurts others by taking things they earned and impacts their ability to get and keep things they need
lying - cant trust and therefore establish productive relationships with someone who habitually lies
adultery - betrayal is highly destructive to a committed relationship and hurts everyone around it
violence - the roots of anarchy and total social dysfunction
murder - duh

homosexuality - uh ... well lets see ... uh we cant make babies? actually i guess we have enough of those already. ok then how about its not in the animal kingdom so its unnatural? oh wait its all over the animal kingdom. ok then how about it weakens traditional families, though i cant actually say how. ok then how about bc it says so in the bible, although i guess it also says we need to kill adulterers in the center of town and bury any plates we use for pork in the ground so credibility of literal interpretation is severely suspect. um, i guess thats all i got

responsible homosexuality hurts NO ONE. resistance to it is purely emotional. why in the hell would any 'god' give a crap about who you swap genital juices with? this is a HUMAN created objection that should NOT be included with the other obviously bad sins we should avoid

Christianity is not the only religion that considers homosexuality a sin.

And there are Gays that are Christian. There are even Gay Christian Congregations..........................now those people are really discriminated against & hated by some.

[trapezeus]

"If you hate something, don't you do it too."

That's why they tried to outlaw homosexuality back in the day. Because they were and instead of being fine with it, they tried to fight against it. So they just hated it without reason, just because. and because religion was so important back then, everyone bought in.

Now religion tends to be for under-educated people who would rather just believe than to learn and know. and that's probably why better days sees what he thinks is "hate" against religion. it's not hate, it's just putting it in its place in the land of fiction, while the issue occurs in a world of non fiction.

[TedMock]

Hit and miss most days. This Sam announcement though has brought out the worst in people.

I know I should not have been surprised, but I was by how much people actually care. Don't get me wrong - I knew the media would go nuts with it on both sides of the table, but my honest initial reaction was "who cares?" Most of the players are under 30 meaning that they have seen "gay" as part of a normal day most of their lives and Will and Grace, Ellen, Glee, etc their entire TV-watching lives. Most probably have friends, family or neighbors who are gay and they probably don't really care. I would expect most teams to approach it the same way. He's not a hero for making the announcement. He's not a lesser person for being gay. There's no reason to believe that he's a deviant pervert just because he's gay. He's a just football player who happens to be decent at his craft. Unless he does something extraordinary or vile, he should be treated as any other kid entering the draft this year. At least it took the focus off Johnny Football for a while! I was getting sick of hearing his name.

[kishoph]

BS. Tebow has been ridiculed for his religion & the attention he brings to it on this board.

"On this board" that may be true (I wouldn't know because I wouldn't waste my time reading a Tebow thread), but his religious beliefs are not the reason he is not in the NFL. He is not good enough to be an NFL QB. The year he played in the playoffs with the Broncos, he completed 46% of his passes in the regular season and 40% in the post season, there's no team that is going to have a QB that has trouble completing half of his passes and his refusal to play any position other than QB will keep him out of the league, not his beliefs (other than the one that he believes he's a QB).

[pmoon6]

"If you hate something, don't you do it too."

That's why they tried to outlaw homosexuality back in the day. Because they were and instead of being fine with it, they tried to fight against it. So they just hated it without reason, just because. and because religion was so important back then, everyone bought in.

Now religion tends to be for under-educated people who would rather just believe than to learn and know. and that's probably why better days sees what he thinks is "hate" against religion. it's not hate, it's just putting it in its place in the land of fiction, while the issue occurs in a world of non fiction.....and a reason to subvert spirituality to denigrate the opinion of the "unenlightened".

[Mindbender]

"If you hate something, don't you do it too."

That's why they tried to outlaw homosexuality back in the day. Because they were and instead of being fine with it, they tried to fight against it. So they just hated it without reason, just because. and because religion was so important back then, everyone bought in.

Now religion tends to be for under-educated people who would rather just believe than to learn and know. and that's probably why better days sees what he thinks is "hate" against religion. it's not hate, it's just putting it in its place in the land of fiction, while the issue occurs in a world of non fiction.

Ah, now they're uneducated bigots who believe in fairy tales. But no hate of course, that's just imaginary. Part of the fairy tale.

[Mike13]

And while I do not advocate bashing or discriminating against gays, I think it is crazy that the people that are most offended by anyone that does not agree with their point of view, find it perfectly acceptable to bash & ridicule Christians.


And where is the HATE for the Gays? I have not seen any hate for Sam in 10 pages of this thread.

BUT I have seen hate for Christians in this thread.


It is just as hard today, maybe harder for people with religious conviction to stand up to the Atheists & heathens & defend their religion

as it is to come out as gay.

You can come down from the cross now, no one is holding a gun to your head for being a Christian in this country.

[Meathead]

didnt mean to single out christianity, ANY religion that promotes homosexuality as a sin has broken thru the rationality thin ice

homoerotica was thrown in to the pile of major sins bc those traditions started when ppl were more primative. average lifespan was about thirty-five mainly bc they had no idea about stuff like bacteria and viruses and anaphylaxis, so to them sudden death was like some evil magic. homos were an easy target for blame, just like witches and jews and scott norwood

though we are still annoying infants on the species development scale, we are significantly further along than traditional regious text writers. the majority of major religious sins have passed the test of time with flying colors. this hostility toward gayness however has failed miserably to establish any credible rationale for it

[better days]

You can come down from the cross now, no one is holding a gun to your head for being a Christian in this country.

Give me a break. NOBODY is hating on gays in this Country anymore.

More HATE is directed against Christians & other religions as well than against gays.

Now short, fat, bald guys that drive crappy cars, Gay or straight, white or black........................now that is a group looked down on & ridiculed.

[Meathead]

You can come down from the cross now, no one is holding a gun to your head for being a Christian in this country.

if by holding a gun to your head you mean indimidating and disrespecting someone due to their christianity then i would disagree. there certainly are many ppl that go too far on that front

if you study the roots of spiritual traditions and then get to atheism an interesting thing occurs. there is a large and boisterous element of the athiest crowd whose fervor actually ends up following the same exact pattern of religious fundamentalists. so to them atheism becomes their religion and then they unconciously emulate the same patterns of dogma and exclusion as their targets. i consider myself at core an atheist (depending on how you define that, another discussion), which makes this phenomenon all the more interesting

in any event, yeah that kind of crap is all over the boards. when religion mixes with human frailties it promotes both good and bad. the universal truths are the good, and the human ritual and superstition they inject into those religions as if its supposed to be there when its not is the bad

[Albany,n.y.]

Well, I agree we have a long way to go.

When a person like Tim Tebow is attacked & ridiculed as he has been on this board & a Gay guy is heralded as courageous because he comes out, We have a LONG way to go.

While I don't share Tim Tebow's beliefs, I have great admiration for him as a person. Here's a guy who when he was in the NFL would do his own make a wish for a kid every week, bringing them to the stadium meeting with the kids & their parents giving them uniforms & souvenirs. When a local high school player who was a big Tebow fan was in a horrible car accident that killed 2 of the 4 teens in the vehicle, his friends got in touch with Tebow, a Jet at the time, and Tebow took the time to personally call the teen at the hospital. I have nothing but respect for Tim Tebow the man.

Tim Tebow the football player is another story. He's not a very good QB and is too stubborn to change positions in order to play in the NFL. He probably could make a team as a fullback or tight end & be a decent special teams player, but he'd rather be out of the league. Any criticism of Tim Tebow, the stubborn player, shouldn't be interpreted as anti-Tebow because of his religious beliefs. I'm sure many of the anti-Tebow posts are because they see a guy who is not willing to do anything (on the field) to play in the NFL and only wants to play on his own terms.

Another very religious player I admire is Kurt Warner. The guy is a great person off the field. Do you know what he does in restaurants? When he's with his family they look around for people who they can help by paying for their meals. In the process he teaches his kids what a privilege it is to have his wealth and to share it with others. Also, the guy was a great football player, a certain 1st ballot hall of famer. When he got cut from the Packers as a rookie, he did whatever it took to get back in the NFL. He played in 2 other leagues & improved his skills. He didn't take his ball & go home like Tebow. Funny, I didn't see any anti-Warner posts during his career & he's probably just as religious as Tebow.

Another very religious player was Frank Reich. You never saw any negative comments about him either. Tim Tebow brings it on himself & it has very little to do with his religion.

[imbondz]

Gay, straight, liars, drunkards, good, kind people...we all need Jesus.

If you don't believe gay is a sin fine, but lying is, and we've all lied. So we're all guilty no matter who we sleep with. We all need to be saved from our sins. Jesus died for all of us, but if we don't believe or accept Him, what He did on the cross over 2,000 years ago won't matter when we stand before God and give an account of our lives.

Gospel means good news. It's good to be forgiven of our sins in our lifetime.

[Meathead]

More HATE is directed against Christians & other religions as well than against gays.


from the liberal crowd. just pointing out this isnt across the board, its political. specifically its progressive liberals vs conventional conservatives. we dont want to portray that this is a total social movement when its really just partisan clan wars

yeah liberals have had a ton of valid criticisms at times, the hyper conserative period we went through right after 9/11 being the most recent. now momentum has swung back hard toward liberalism and we already see the serious cracks starting to show up. all this crap we do with special rules for blacks is a perfect example. the excessive attack on traditional conservatism is another

fact is traditional conservatism is far from being all bad. in fact, id say its mostly good. it does have some fundamental flaws in its worldview, and in that sense id say its worse than the liberals who have their own batѕhit territory. thats why i lean left but i dont want to get too close to liberalism bc some elements of it are poison

[better days]

While I don't share Tim Tebow's beliefs, I have great admiration for him as a person. Here's a guy who when he was in the NFL would do his own make a wish for a kid every week, bringing them to the stadium meeting with the kids & their parents giving them uniforms & souvenirs. When a local high school player who was a big Tebow fan was in a horrible car accident that killed 2 of the 4 teens in the vehicle, his friends got in touch with Tebow, a Jet at the time, and Tebow took the time to personally call the teen at the hospital. I have nothing but respect for Tim Tebow the man.

Tim Tebow the football player is another story. He's not a very good QB and is too stubborn to change positions in order to play in the NFL. He probably could make a team as a fullback or tight end & be a decent special teams player, but he'd rather be out of the league. Any criticism of Tim Tebow, the stubborn player, shouldn't be interpreted as anti-Tebow because of his religious beliefs. I'm sure many of the anti-Tebow posts are because they see a guy who is not willing to do anything (on the field) to play in the NFL and only wants to play on his own terms.

Another very religious player I admire is Kurt Warner. The guy is a great person off the field. Do you know what he does in restaurants? When he's with his family they look around for people who they can help by paying for their meals. In the process he teaches his kids what a privilege it is to have his wealth and to share it with others. Also, the guy was a great football player, a certain 1st ballot hall of famer. When he got cut from the Packers as a rookie, he did whatever it took to get back in the NFL. He played in 2 other leagues & improved his skills. He didn't take his ball & go home like Tebow. Funny, I didn't see any anti-Warner posts during his career & he's probably just as religious as Tebow.

Another very religious player was Frank Reich. You never saw any negative comments about him either. Tim Tebow brings it on himself & it has very little to do with his religion.

Tebow brings out the HATE in Atheists because of he spreads the word of his religion much more than any other player in NFL history.

This post is RARE in that it portrays Tebow as a person worth great admiration. Most posts about him are about how much he is HATED.

[imbondz]

While I don't share Tim Tebow's beliefs, I have great admiration for him as a person. Here's a guy who when he was in the NFL would do his own make a wish for a kid every week, bringing them to the stadium meeting with the kids & their parents giving them uniforms & souvenirs. When a local high school player who was a big Tebow fan was in a horrible car accident that killed 2 of the 4 teens in the vehicle, his friends got in touch with Tebow, a Jet at the time, and Tebow took the time to personally call the teen at the hospital. I have nothing but respect for Tim Tebow the man.

Tim Tebow the football player is another story. He's not a very good QB and is too stubborn to change positions in order to play in the NFL. He probably could make a team as a fullback or tight end & be a decent special teams player, but he'd rather be out of the league. Any criticism of Tim Tebow, the stubborn player, shouldn't be interpreted as anti-Tebow because of his religious beliefs. I'm sure many of the anti-Tebow posts are because they see a guy who is not willing to do anything (on the field) to play in the NFL and only wants to play on his own terms.

Another very religious player I admire is Kurt Warner. The guy is a great person off the field. Do you know what he does in restaurants? When he's with his family they look around for people who they can help by paying for their meals. In the process he teaches his kids what a privilege it is to have his wealth and to share it with others. Also, the guy was a great football player, a certain 1st ballot hall of famer. When he got cut from the Packers as a rookie, he did whatever it took to get back in the NFL. He played in 2 other leagues & improved his skills. He didn't take his ball & go home like Tebow. Funny, I didn't see any anti-Warner posts during his career & he's probably just as religious as Tebow.

Another very religious player was Frank Reich. You never saw any negative comments about him either. Tim Tebow brings it on himself & it has very little to do with his religion.

Good post. I'd say Tebow is much more in your face than Warner and Reich were in there playing days about faith. Plus social media was not around back then like it is now. Which contributes to the Tebow backlash.

[TacklingDummy]

To me taking a shower surrounded by 53 other naked guys taking a shower sounds a little gay.

[Meathead]

To me taking a shower surrounded by 53 other naked guys taking a shower sounds a little gay.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQ6X10ojJThJEISJbGSX5M4zfisraSMD978d9eBBq9tnZfeq_V

[Meathead]

here she is talking about me btw

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzlwMn3lBBQn7jkfNw5JAU4nrcfp-SaZAynQL1gBTeTVyHYkQRjQ

[pmoon6]

To me taking a shower surrounded by 53 other naked guys taking a shower sounds a little gay.They have to eliminate 5 on game day.

So you would only be showering with 48.

The rest will be stinky.....

[pmoon6]

Give Meat all the **** you want. I love him. Nothing like a great sense of humor.

Is that gay?

[Meathead]

i think deep inside we all love meat

[Historian]

He sure gives new meaning to the term, "high motor guy" !

[sukie]

He sure gives new meaning to the term, "high motor guy" !

Only white guys are "high motor"

[Mike13]

Give me a break. NOBODY is hating on gays in this Country anymore.

More HATE is directed against Christians & other religions as well than against gays.

Now short, fat, bald guys that drive crappy cars, Gay or straight, white or black........................now that is a group looked down on & ridiculed.

You are the 80%. You are the Majority. You.CANNOT. BE. OPPRESSED.



Gay, straight, liars, drunkards, good, kind people...we all need Jesus.

If you don't believe gay is a sin fine, but lying is, and we've all lied. So we're all guilty no matter who we sleep with. We all need to be saved from our sins. Jesus died for all of us, but if we don't believe or accept Him, what He did on the cross over 2,000 years ago won't matter when we stand before God and give an account of our lives.

Gospel means good news. It's good to be forgiven of our sins in our lifetime.

Your God is not for everyone, accept that.



Only white guys are "high motor"

And good route runners.

[starrymessenger]

As a matter of right, Sam should have exactly the same opportunities as any other aspiring pro football player.
I think just about everybody agrees with that.
There is nothing about their sexuality that prevents gay people from excelling in their chosen professions, being blessed with natural ability, or generally displaying the human qualities, intelligence, diligence, determination etc that are universally acknowledged as admirable.
I dislike fundamentalists of any description because, and only because, their views are so frequently used as instruments of oppression.
I think that tolerance is mankind's greatest virtue and achievement.
Now having said all that, and I believe it, I do have some difficulty on a purely personal level reconciling my instinctive reactions with my beliefs.
I find homosexual behavior thoroughly repugnant.
Logically I can't feel this way because the homosexual lifestyle is promiscuous, since it is not necessarily so and I am accepting of unattached heterosexual men having multiple partners. See more ass than a toilet seat if you can is my motto.
Here my natural inclinations have again been opposed by logic. I used to want to believe that it was ok for men to have multiple partners but women...not so much. I believed in the theory that God had expressly designed an evolutionary program having something to do with natural selection whereby the male of every species was compelled to disseminate his seed to the max. Thank you God. But then I realized that if I were to have multiple relationships and my partners only one there would be two billion women trying to have sex with me. Too much of a good thing and I'm not man enuf anyway.
So I decided that it was ok for unattached women to have multiple partners. Logically this worked for me because it did not mean that homosexual men could be promiscuous. Apples to oranges after all.
Now if I could only figure out why the thought of two beautiful women making out seems like such a good idea.
I guess only DR. Freud, and my (male) hairdresser know for sure.
I guess I'm still a work in progress.
Best of luck to Michael at the combine and in his future endeavors.

[Bill Cody]

Personally I have a problem with showering with any man, gay or straight.
College and Pro Football are billion dollar industries.
There's no reason they can't afford showers that give everyone a little privacy.

Can't have that. Where would the religious zealots be without their pet showering argument?

[Meathead]

He sure gives new meaning to the term, "high motor guy" !

well thanks I appreciate that

[MikeInRoch]

More HATE is directed against Christians & other religions as well than against gays.

What a joke. Seriously. That's just plain ignorance.

Tell me, what was the last time in America that someone was tied to a fence and had rocks thrown at their head until they died because they were Christian?

[feldspar]

BS. Tebow has been ridiculed for his religion & the attention he brings to it on this board.

Tebow might be one of the biggest victims of the media that I've ever seen as a sports figure. Personally, I don't think he's that good of a quarterback, but the ridiculous amount of attention he's gotten was more about who he is than his actual play...and he's not a bad guy, whether you agree with his religious beliefs or not. I don't see how anyone could argue with that in a general sense. In effect, you see a guy get negative attention that is harmful to his career because he is a positive guy. Doesn't add up. He may have brought a little of it on himself by using his fame as something of a platform to spout his religious beliefs at times, but that hardly explains the media circus that follows him.

Dunno how many teams would be interested based on his play, but I'm sure they don't want to deal with the media circus that's gotten way out of hand...and that weighs in.

[TedMock]

Tebow might be one of the biggest victims of the media that I've ever seen as a sports figure. Personally, I don't think he's that good of a quarterback, but the ridiculous amount of attention he's gotten was more about who he is than his actual play...and he's not a bad guy, whether you agree with his religious beliefs or not. I don't see how anyone could argue with that in a general sense. In effect, you see a guy get negative attention that is harmful to his career because he is a positive guy. Doesn't add up. He may have brought a little of it on himself by using his fame as something of a platform to spout his religious beliefs at times, but that hardly explains the media circus that follows him.

Dunno how many teams would be interested based on his play, but I'm sure they don't want to deal with the media circus that's gotten way out of hand...and that weighs in.

I mentioned the media circus in another thread and used Tebow as an example. I do think it plays a role, but here's what's bizarre: While the Tebow media circus was neverending, the Manti Teo media circus lasted a couple weeks and completely disappeared. Why? No clue. I would think that a fundamentalist christian is less interesting than a guy who had a fake girlfriend (regardless of the reasons), but I am obviously wrong. In the end, both guys seem like nice fellas and neither were hurting anyone. The same appears to be true for Michael Sam. I wonder how long the media circus will go on. There will be one, but will it be a multi-year thing, or a few weeks thing? The best thing for him now is for one, or more, current gay players to step forward. They're definitely out there. If that happens - and I do not believe it will - the media circus all but disappears after a week. Otherwise, it's a toss-up.

[feldspar]

The same appears to be true for Michael Sam. I wonder how long the media circus will go on. There will be one, but will it be a multi-year thing, or a few weeks thing? The best thing for him now is for one, or more, current gay players to step forward. They're definitely out there. If that happens - and I do not believe it will - the media circus all but disappears after a week. Otherwise, it's a toss-up.

The thing is that there is not much material there for Sam. He's gay, and that's all there is to it. No current NFL player has ever come out...how many times can you say that?

Mainstream media will do nothing but support Sam, that's for sure. Some will be over-the-top about the support. If he makes a team, I have a hard time believing that any of his teammates will dare to say anything bad about him publicly, even if they don't really like him. I bet Sam himself will have very little media exposure in the form of interviews and such as a general policy.

You'll have Good Housekeeping, Entertainment Tonight, Gay Pride, CNN, and whatever other outlet you can think of covering the story now. But I don't see the hook. I don't see how the story can be constantly perpetuated on a large scale. Constantly bringing up the fact that he's gay and making stories up about that is a form of discrimination, I would think. And they would fail to be interesting, especially since the company line will be to be politically correct about the whole thing in public.

Breaking News: Michael Sams is STILL gay.

I never really understood the fixation on Tebow, either, but I figure the media will handle the Sams situation with kid gloves. Nobody would even really be talking about him at all (or not many) if he didn't come out. Tebow was high-profile before he came to the NFL, and he plays QB. Lot's of ****ed up **** happened that one year with the Broncos too, with the inexplicable comebacks and such. Who knows how much Sams will actually play even if he does make a team?

[Mahdi]

I wouldnt draft him. I don't care to know your sexual orientation. NFL should pass on him to avoid others thinking they have to make a coming out party when they get famous. Keep your private life private.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I mentioned the media circus in another thread and used Tebow as an example. I do think it plays a role, but here's what's bizarre: While the Tebow media circus was neverending, the Manti Teo media circus lasted a couple weeks and completely disappeared. Why? No clue. I would think that a fundamentalist christian is less interesting than a guy who had a fake girlfriend (regardless of the reasons), but I am obviously wrong. In the end, both guys seem like nice fellas and neither were hurting anyone. The same appears to be true for Michael Sam. I wonder how long the media circus will go on. There will be one, but will it be a multi-year thing, or a few weeks thing? The best thing for him now is for one, or more, current gay players to step forward. They're definitely out there. If that happens - and I do not believe it will - the media circus all but disappears after a week. Otherwise, it's a toss-up.

Tebow was a far more high profile player playing a more high profile position for more high profile teams. That, and he was outspoken about his beliefs (remember his Super Bowl pro life ad?) while Te'o obviously tried to sweep the thing under the rug.

[Skooby]

Perfect 49ers player, not lets move on.

[sukie]

Tebow was a far more high profile player playing a more high profile position for more high profile teams. That, and he was outspoken about his beliefs (remember his Super Bowl pro life ad?) while Te'o obviously tried to sweep the thing under the rug.

There would have been no TEBOW BUZZ anywhere in the nation if he had looked like this. Admit it!

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/attachments/football/18054d1272396905-ugliest-player-nfl-mugshot__chris-kemp.jpg

[feldspar]

There would have been no TEBOW BUZZ anywhere in the nation if he had looked like this. Admit it!

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/attachments/football/18054d1272396905-ugliest-player-nfl-mugshot__chris-kemp.jpg

Here's a guy that needs a Mark Kelso helmet.

[sukie]

Beavis?

[feldspar]

here she is talking about me btw

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzlwMn3lBBQn7jkfNw5JAU4nrcfp-SaZAynQL1gBTeTVyHYkQRjQ

She's talking about how big of an ass you are?

- - - Updated - - -


Give Meat all the **** you want.

I'm working on it.

[alohabillsfan]

12 pages of dribble. I think the packers should draft him :)

[DraftBoy]

I wouldnt draft him. I don't care to know your sexual orientation. NFL should pass on him to avoid others thinking they have to make a coming out party when they get famous. Keep your private life private.

He did a few interviews…most of the top 20 this May will do exponentially more than Sam did. He's also declining all further requests on this topic…Pretty sure he's not going to show up in NYC in drag and salsa across the stage no matter when drafted.

[better days]

You are the 80%. You are the Majority. You.CANNOT. BE. OPPRESSED.




Your God is not for everyone, accept that.




And good route runners.

I did not say Christians were oppressed. I said there was HATRED & a LOT of it, directed at Christians by the nonbelievers. Especially on this board.

[Beebe's Kid]

I did not say Christians were oppressed. I said there was HATRED & a LOT of it, directed at Christians by the nonbelievers. Especially on this board.

Maybe it is just your persecution complex?

[better days]

What a joke. Seriously. That's just plain ignorance.

Tell me, what was the last time in America that someone was tied to a fence and had rocks thrown at their head until they died because they were Christian?

The level may not be as high. but the numbers are greater.

[Beebe's Kid]

I am a non-believer, and I don't care what you believe. Like...seriously could care less, yet you talk about it constantly. I am going to guess from your comments here that you are a Fox News viewer, and the persecution complex is strong there...it is kind of what they do.

[Beebe's Kid]

And...it is 'Merica, so if you want to be persecuted, go ahead. You should just, at the very least, be a little aware of your unnecessary paranoia.

[ckg927]

Peter King didnt have the balls to name them anyway.

Peter King isn't the one who wrote that article. Pete Thamel did.

[MikeInRoch]

The level may not be as high. but the numbers are greater.

"May not be as high" is underselling immensely. I don't care how many people get told "please keep your damn religion out of public policy", it won't equal one "he's gay so lets beat him to death".

[ckg927]

I wouldnt draft him. I don't care to know your sexual orientation. NFL should pass on him to avoid others thinking they have to make a coming out party when they get famous. Keep your private life private.

Really enlightened comment there.

My understanding is that Sam had an inkling that he'd be asked about it at the combine coming up next week, so instead of teams asking him about that(among other things), he beat them to the punch and said it himself.

[better days]

Maybe it is just your persecution complex?

Just because you are paranoid does not mean people are not out to get you.