Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

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  • Fletch
    Registered User
    • May 2007
    • 3166
    #1

    Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

    Here's an article by the same writer that BillsImpossible cites in his thread http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...ou-Feel-Better.

    This Article Might Make You Feel Better - BillsZone.com - Buffalo Bills Fan Zone
    http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/224445-This-Article-Might-Make-You-Feel-Better
    This article was from May and I'm pretty sure the guy who wrote it was on the John Murphy Show a few weeks back. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/05/20/secret-superstars-2014-buffalo-bills/ Secret Superstars 2014: Bills (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/05/20/secret-superstars-2014-buffalo-bills/)Peter


    Mario heads the list of the overrated. Here's what he has to say about Mario;

    Overvalued
    1. Mario Williams, Outside Linebacker
    Williams had another solid season for the Bills, finishing with the 17th-highest grade at his position for the second straight year. Unfortunately, Buffalo is paying for one of the Top 5 edge defenders in the league, not one of the Top 25. Games like his five-sack performance against the Panthers in Week 2 showed how dominant Williams can be, but he also had other games where he was virtually invisible outside of a couple splash plays. His run defense was solid but not spectacular, and his 3.9 Run Stop Percentage was the lowest of any Buffalo edge defender. Williams is obviously talented, but unless he becomes disruptive on a more consistent basis, he’ll continue to fall short of his lofty salary.

    2013 Cap Hit: $12.4m
    2013 Jahnke Value Model: $5.9m
    Value Differential: -$6.5m
    http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

    Post #46

    Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
    (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
    Originally Posted by pmoon6
    The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

    You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

    Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

    The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
    ------

    "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

    "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

    "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

    Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

    "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

    Tags: None
  • Ginger Vitis
    Registered User
    • Feb 2009
    • 3451
    #2
    Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

    Interesting read although you have mentioned it in another thread perhaps you're trying too hard

    Comment

    • Fletch
      Registered User
      • May 2007
      • 3166
      #3
      Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

      Just responding to a handful of people that insist that Mario's worth anything close to what we're paying him. If I were in charge I'd cut his ass after the season. There's no way he's worth 12/13M per season. Mario hasn't even added a single game to this team's win total.

      "Trying to hard" is meaningless.
      http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

      Post #46

      Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
      (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
      Originally Posted by pmoon6
      The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

      You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

      Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

      The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
      ------

      "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

      "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

      "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

      Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

      "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

      • 👍 1

      Comment

      • Ginger Vitis
        Registered User
        • Feb 2009
        • 3451
        #4
        Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

        Originally posted by Fletch View Post
        Mario hasn't even added a single game to this team's win total.
        I guess you never saw the Bills/Panthers game last year or the Bills/Dolphins game last year in Miami

        Comment

        • jimmifli
          Registered User
          • Nov 2006
          • 7827
          #5
          Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

          Mario is worth his contract. Because players that are above average, young and play important positions are rarely available.

          The demand for double digit sack DEs is approximately equal to the number of teams in the NFL. The availability of perennial double digit sack DEs is quite low, young ones even lower. And so teams that want to add that type of player must pay a fortune, or gamble on draft picks.
          • 👍 9

          Comment

          • Topas
            German smartass
            • Feb 2014
            • 880
            #6
            Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

            ^ what he said ....

            Comment

            • Night Train
              Retired - On Several Levels
              • Jul 2005
              • 33117
              #7
              Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

              He was overpaid... because at the time, no one in their right mind would sign here. Still, I'm glad he's here to help us win.


              I guess some people are so busy with their redundant posts of misery that they can't understand that.
              Anonymity is an abused privilege, abused most by people who mistake vitriol for wisdom and cynicism for wit
              • 👍 1

              Comment

              • Fletch
                Registered User
                • May 2007
                • 3166
                #8
                Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

                Originally posted by Ginger Vitis View Post
                I guess you never saw the Bills/Panthers game last year or the Bills/Dolphins game last year in Miami
                So you're saying that without that effort we'd have been 5-11, I agree. Unfortunately we were 6-10 the season prior to getting him and 6-10 in his first season here, so 6-10 is not an improvement or a game better than we were without him here. That's what I meant. Not whether we can go 2-14 with him playing two good games.

                Brady gets less than Mario and is responsible in NE for the difference between 6-10 there and making the playoffs every season and being competitive in them. Manning gets paid what Mario gets and look what he did for the Broncos from the year before that. You pay that kind of money for QBs, not DEs that don't even consistently rank in the top-10 at their position.

                Oh wait, I take that back, here in Buffalo that makes perfect sense. LOL
                Last edited by Fletch; 07-03-2014, 06:33 AM.
                http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                Post #46

                Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                Originally Posted by pmoon6
                The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                ------

                "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                Comment

                • Fletch
                  Registered User
                  • May 2007
                  • 3166
                  #9
                  Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

                  Originally posted by jimmifli View Post
                  Mario is worth his contract. Because players that are above average, young and play important positions are rarely available.

                  The demand for double digit sack DEs is approximately equal to the number of teams in the NFL. The availability of perennial double digit sack DEs is quite low, young ones even lower. And so teams that want to add that type of player must pay a fortune, or gamble on draft picks.
                  That's our current front office's mentality.

                  So in your world the key is to overpay players that are young. Sounds like you'd fit right in with the front office that's been the problem here for years.

                  That's not how good teams are built, by paying players twice what they're worth unless they're real game changers consistently. Mario clearly is not by just about everyone's account, he shows up for fewer than half the games and as the piece said, he had the lowest run stop percentage of any Buffalo defender.

                  It's funny how some of you rationalize things.

                  By the way, here's the link to that article, I botched it up top.

                  PFF News & Analysis
                  https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/28/jvm-buffalo-bills/
                  The latest football news, analysis, and rankings from PFF. Featuring data-driven rankings and stats for NFL, fantasy football, and the NFL Draft.
                  http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                  Post #46

                  Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                  (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                  Originally Posted by pmoon6
                  The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                  You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                  Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                  The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                  ------

                  "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                  "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                  "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                  Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                  "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                  Comment

                  • TacklingDummy
                    Unreachable Douche
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 71725
                    #10
                    Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

                    Mario's big contract has led to 2 season's of 6-10.

                    It's all about the damn Quarterback.
                    Until you have one, the rest really don't matter.
                    • 👍 4

                    Comment

                    • Fletch
                      Registered User
                      • May 2007
                      • 3166
                      #11
                      Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

                      Originally posted by Night Train View Post
                      He was overpaid... because at the time, no one in their right mind would sign here. Still, I'm glad he's here to help us win.
                      That's another issue. And Mario's made it so that now players want to sign here? Sorry, not seeing it.

                      Again, you're missing the point. If you're a fan presumably you want the team to put the best that it can on the field. When it pays that kind of money, "highest paid defensive player in the league money," but doesn't get what it pays for, it prevents the team from signing other very good starting players, several of them, to help us move forward.

                      Right now it's an impossible argument to insist that Mario has helped this team move forward. All he does is log sacks in a handful of games, disappears altogether in others.

                      In two seasons for Mario there's been only one game that he's gotten a sack in that we've beaten a team with a winning record. One. That was Carolina last season and since no one's picked up on it, they were playing very poorly at the beginning of the season.

                      Do we really need Mario, for however good he may be, to beat the Fins, 5-11 Cards in '12, 5-11 Browns in '12, and 2-14 Jags in '11? Think that over.

                      For any fan of this team that wants to see us win, this albatross of a contract for Mario is holding us back. That may be offensive to some of you but it's reality. Then again, that's the difference between us and perennial winners like the Pats, they don't hand out ridiculous contracts like that.

                      If we have to because we sucks so bad, then how come we don't try to do it for a QB? or MLB?

                      This isn't complicated, really.
                      http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                      Post #46

                      Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                      (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                      Originally Posted by pmoon6
                      The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                      You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                      Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                      The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                      ------

                      "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                      "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                      "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                      Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                      "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                      • 👍 1

                      Comment

                      • GingerP
                        Registered User
                        • Aug 2012
                        • 1717
                        #12
                        Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

                        Of course Williams is overpaid, he is a top player in his prime. That is what happens when you sign one of those guys in FA. Still, it isn't like he is a stiff. He hasn't missed a game in 2 seasons, and had double-digit sacks in both.

                        I personally don't care what he gets paid (it isn't my money), as long as it doesn't keep the team from doing other things. It isn't like Williams contract is keeping them from signing players, cap room isn't an issue. Unless you are completely delusional, you should recognize he is a good player and makes the team better. What do you care if he earns more than say, Olivier Vernon? He is doing the same job.
                        • 👍 2

                        Comment

                        • Fletch
                          Registered User
                          • May 2007
                          • 3166
                          #13
                          Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

                          Originally posted by TacklingDummy View Post
                          Mario's big contract has led to 2 season's of 6-10.

                          It's all about the damn Quarterback.
                          Until you have one, the rest really don't matter.
                          Exactly. Some people can't see that despite it being obvious. Some people here think that 96M spent on Mario is spent better than the same on Manning or less than two-thirds of it on Brady, indisputably two of NFL history's best QBs. Mario isn't even indisputably one of the best DEs in today's game.
                          http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                          Post #46

                          Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                          (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                          Originally Posted by pmoon6
                          The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                          You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                          Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                          The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                          ------

                          "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                          "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                          "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                          Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                          "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                          Comment

                          • Fletch
                            Registered User
                            • May 2007
                            • 3166
                            #14
                            Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

                            Originally posted by GingerP View Post
                            I personally don't care what he gets paid (it isn't my money), as long as it doesn't keep the team from doing other things. It isn't like Williams contract is keeping them from signing players, cap room isn't an issue. Unless you are completely delusional, you should recognize he is a good player and makes the team better. What do you care if he earns more than say, Olivier Vernon? He is doing the same job.
                            "He makes the team better" is a relative statement. Kelsay could make the team better. Depends on what you have and had in the position otherwise, doesn't it?

                            Spikes makes the team better over the nothing that we had last season, but as we'll see he'll leave a whole lot to be desired in the passing game.

                            It has nothing to do with cap, at least for us, it has to do with what other players you can sign for the same money. With 96M you can get several players that contributed as much in other positions.

                            Why is this concept so difficult for some people to grasp?

                            The better teams don't overpay for talent like Mario.
                            Last edited by Fletch; 07-04-2014, 06:54 AM.
                            http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                            Post #46

                            Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                            (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                            Originally Posted by pmoon6
                            The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                            You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                            Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                            The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                            ------

                            "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                            "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                            "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                            Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                            "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                            • 👍 1

                            Comment

                            • coastal
                              Legendary Zoner
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 15514
                              #15
                              Re: Bills Overrated/Underrated Players

                              image.jpg
                              • 👍 1

                              Comment

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