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All: The new Billszone site with the updated software is scheduled to be turned on Tuesday, May 21, 2024. The company that built it, Dynascale, estimates a FOUR HOUR shut down, from 8pm Pacific, (5pm Eastern) while they get it up and running. Nobody will be able to post in any forum until they are done. Afterwards, you may need to do a web search for the site, as old links will not work, because the site is getting a new IP address. Please be patient. If there are bugs, we will tackle them one at a time. Remember the goal is to be up and running with no glitches by camp. Doing this now assures us of that, because it gives us all summer to get our ducks in a row. Thank you!
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Value Of Buffalo Bills Depends On Team's Location In 2020
How much are the Buffalo Bills worth? My partner in crime, Kurt Badenhausen, and I need to answer that question as we prepare our NFL team valuations for publication in August. The answer depends on where the team will be in six years--Buffalo, Los Angeles or Toronto. I am beginning to [...]
How much are the Buffalo Bills worth? My partner in crime, Kurt Badenhausen, and I need to answer that question as we prepare our NFL team valuations for publication in August.
The answer depends on where the team will be in six years–Buffalo, Los Angeles or Toronto. I am beginning to think the Bills will end up in Toronto.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Re: Value Of Buffalo Bills Depends On Team's Location In 2020
The trust that has controlled the team since the death of Ralph Wilson is currently selling the NFL team and has a fiduciary responsibility to get maximum value.
They don't know that. The trust has a duty to follow whatever criteria the deceased provided. That's typically highest bidder, but we or the authors have no way of knowing. Unless they've got access to information that the public does not.
Re: Value Of Buffalo Bills Depends On Team's Location In 2020
Nothing to see here.
First, it's an opinion piece. Second, it's stating the obvious. Yes, a football team is worth more if it is in a larger, wealthier city than a smaller transitional city.
Third, they kinda missed the boat on the lease issue. Yes, it will only cost $28 mill to move the team after 2019 and yes the team would be worth more in another city, but it's 2014. No one is going to pay what the team would be worth in Toronto or LA in 2020 to buy a team that's actually in Buffalo in 2014. He fails to make a connection between the team's value in another city to the cost to buy the team now.
I think Gil pointed out some tax implications that may prevent a local discount.
not sure how that impacts things.
Huh? I would be interested to see that.
What can happen if the trust has the responsibility to sell to the bidder to sell to the highest bid that keeps the Bills in town AND bids at least 75% of the highest bid. I know "keeps the Bills in town" is tough to define and put into a contract. And it could happen that none qualifies for both criteria. But just for the sake of the argument.
Why would there be tax implications that are a problem. Well other than that the fund gets less money in the end. But that is not really a tax problem. Actually the fund would have to pay even less tax, so thats a plus :-)
Huh? I would be interested to see that.
What can happen if the trust has the responsibility to sell to the bidder to sell to the highest bid that keeps the Bills in town AND bids at least 75% of the highest bid. I know "keeps the Bills in town" is tough to define and put into a contract. And it could happen that none qualifies for both criteria. But just for the sake of the argument.
Why would there be tax implications that are a problem. Well other than that the fund gets less money in the end. But that is not really a tax problem. Actually the fund would have to pay even less tax, so thats a plus :-)
It has something to do with a fair market value assessment of the franchise's worth.
If the Bills are sold for $800 million but are really valued at $1.1 billion, the estate will be taxed on the sale at the $1.1 billion amount.
its probably in the tax law to prevent the rich from paying a less than full amount on the estate tax by preventing pre-mortem discount sale arrangements.
Re: Value Of Buffalo Bills Depends On Team's Location In 2020
until the team is sold, i am guessing fletch will continue to post his hopes that the bills move so he can say "he called it!" ANd if they are sold and they stay put, i am guessing we'll hear less from him.
these stories are unbelievable. there are a lot of factors that go into it and we simply don't know.
the idea that buffalo simply can't support it is false and the idea that this team is safe if purchased locally is also false.
They don't know that. The trust has a duty to follow whatever criteria the deceased provided. That's typically highest bidder, but we or the authors have no way of knowing. Unless they've got access to information that the public does not.
Usually when a trust is involved, in the case of a sale, it's typical that the goal is getting the maximum amount of money for it. Keep in mind here, this isn't just a couple of Wilson's "children," it's a board.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
First, it's an opinion piece. Second, it's stating the obvious. Yes, a football team is worth more if it is in a larger, wealthier city than a smaller transitional city.
Third, they kinda missed the boat on the lease issue. Yes, it will only cost $28 mill to move the team after 2019 and yes the team would be worth more in another city, but it's 2014. No one is going to pay what the team would be worth in Toronto or LA in 2020 to buy a team that's actually in Buffalo in 2014. He fails to make a connection between the team's value in another city to the cost to buy the team now.
Pretty much everything to date is opinion besides that the team's going to go up for sale and who some of the interested potential buyers are. Pretty much everything else is speculation although there are reasons to believe some things, such as that the state won't be willing to put much into a new stadium for example and that the county or surrounding counties aren't in a position to contribute much either.
I also disagree that the selling price will not be impacted by the future intentions of the owner. For example, let's say that an owner is interested in moving the team, say Toronto but it doesn't matter for the sake of discussion, it would make sense that this potential owner has had a back room discussion with Goodell or someone else at the league about it and whether or not it's a possibility.
Here's the thing, the NFL has been blowing its "international" horn for years. Either they're serious or they're not. I happen to think that they are despite the fact that I don't like the idea. As I always say, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else prefers in matters like this. Assuming that they're serious, the only two real possibilities for a team to be based "internationally" are Canada (Toronto) and England (London). Right now London appears to simply be a place for some teams to play a game every season but nothing more. So Toronto is the primary logical choice. Given the notion that the team and NFL has already made forays into Toronto, this makes more sense than anything.
Lastly, everyone seems to discounting the notion that the $400M moving fee is insurmountable. I don't think that it would be difficult at all for interests intent on hastening a move there to pull together that amount of funding, and it likely wouldn't have to be that amount since the team would in every likelihood make much more money there, so any new owners might be happy with half or slightly more than that by those willing to chip in to make it happen.
Either way, if Pegula and Golisano are willing to overpay to keep the team here, it's hardly beyond reason to think that another owner might be willing to pay to get out of a lease to cement his spot and legacy as Canada's, and the world's, owner of the first non-US NFL team.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Huh? I would be interested to see that.
What can happen if the trust has the responsibility to sell to the bidder to sell to the highest bid that keeps the Bills in town AND bids at least 75% of the highest bid. I know "keeps the Bills in town" is tough to define and put into a contract. And it could happen that none qualifies for both criteria. But just for the sake of the argument.
Why would there be tax implications that are a problem. Well other than that the fund gets less money in the end. But that is not really a tax problem. Actually the fund would have to pay even less tax, so thats a plus :-)
Talk about speculation. Either way, here's why I don't think that there's anything written anywhere that stipulates any such things. First, I think that if Wilson had been that concerned he'd have sold the team himself to whomever he pleased. Secondly, at some point something like that becomes a little more complicated than simply sales figures. Last, I think any such information would have been released (or leaked) by now. Remember, the more stipulations in something like this, the greater the chances of the whole thing ending up in court and making this look ridiculous.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Usually when a trust is involved, in the case of a sale, it's typical that the goal is getting the maximum amount of money for it. Keep in mind here, this isn't just a couple of Wilson's "children," it's a board.
But also keep in mind this is not a typical case of a sale.
It is well known that Ralph HATED the idea of teams moving.
There is no way of knowing what criteria Ralph instructed the trust to use.
until the team is sold, i am guessing fletch will continue to post his hopes that the bills move so he can say "he called it!" ANd if they are sold and they stay put, i am guessing we'll hear less from him.
these stories are unbelievable. there are a lot of factors that go into it and we simply don't know.
the idea that buffalo simply can't support it is false and the idea that this team is safe if purchased locally is also false.
Yeah, thanks. I always enjoy when people speak for me.
You'll hear less from me if the new owner doesn't replace the front office. If he keeps Brandon, Whaley, and the rest of those dinosaur fixtures and friends and cronies of Wilson's in there, you'll rarely hear from me. Like I've said before, if a new owner doesn't shed Wilson's way of doing business, then we should expect nothing but another 20 years of what we've seen over the last 14. I realize that might sound appealing to you, but it doesn't to me.
I'm hoping that they stay, clearly, but I just don't see it in the modern era. Instead of opining like a child, why don't you do what I've done, ask yourself if Buffalo did not have a team already, would it even make the short list of potential places for either a new team or to move one to? I haven't heard anyone address that other than to simply throw out their opinion that Buffalo's the best financial place for this team but without laying out any basis for it besides longshot speculation.
The answer on either is no, it wouldn't. So then how you or anyone else can sit here and insist that Buffalo is just as viable a market as any other is foolishness.
If it's not just as viable, it's less viable. If it's less viable, then there are other more viable markets. If there are other more viable markets, then they're definitely in play now. Period. To think otherwise is to ignore reality. We can all sit here and talk about how there's no chance the team will move, whistle "over the rainbow" together, and congratulate each other on what great fans we are because we don't believe that the team will move, but that wouldn't alter reality and the facts. Would it?
I don't think that there's a person that posts here or in any Bills forum that wants the team to move, for any reason. To say that just shows how limited you are in your discussion skills.
I will admit that if the new owner doesn't install a new front office then I really don't care whether they move or not, but that's hardly to say that I hope that they do, it would simply mean that I'd be ambivalent over it.
I want a winner, or at least an owner that understands what it takes to build a winner and one that puts his money in the right spots, not the wrong ones like overpaying big names when the fans are on the fringes of apathy. I'd like one that spends some bucks on a good GM who in turn hires the right head coach that turns around and hires competent assistants. But you know what, if we can't have competence in that way, then my level of caring diminishes drastically. I'm tired of being a whipping boy amongst people for my allegiance to a team that insults us as fans by their personnel moves and treats us a financial supporters instead of fans that expect competence by people getting paid millions to have some.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
But also keep in mind this is not a typical case of a sale.
It is well known that Ralph HATED the idea of teams moving.
There is no way of knowing what criteria Ralph instructed the trust to use.
Understood, but there is only so much that one can build into a trustee sale such as this. Again, if Wilson were so concerned about the team moving, then he could easily have seen to it himself, particularly since it was clear that he wasn't going to live to see 100, and sold the team for whatever amount of money he wanted to whomever he chose. If there was a problem with that then, then there's a problem with it now. If not, then I question how ardently he really tried to see to it that the team wouldn't move. Either way, it is what it is and he has no more control posthumously.
To me it's pretty evident, the team can clearly make both more revenues as well as greater profits elsewhere. What it's going to come down to is whether the cost of moving the team will be worth the $400 out clause plus any difference in bids generated by overbidding on the parts of bidders that are willing to overpay to keep the team here. Everyone assumes that Golisano and Pegula are both willing to overpay to keep the team here even if it means that they'd sustain financial losses for the foreseeable future. But we haven't read that anywhere. All we've seen is how "aggressive" one or more of them will be in the bidding. So all this talk about how they're willing to pay whatever it takes to see to it that the team stays here is mere opinion. I'd love it, but I also wouldn't count on it.
Having said that, if a new owner can increase his revenue by several hundred million and his profits by 20 or 30M by moving the team and eating that $400M, I don't think that it's a hurdle that we should cavalierly dismiss, that's all.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
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Originally Posted by pmoon6 
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