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All: The new Billszone site with the updated software is scheduled to be turned on Tuesday, May 21, 2024. The company that built it, Dynascale, estimates a FOUR HOUR shut down, from 8pm Pacific, (5pm Eastern) while they get it up and running. Nobody will be able to post in any forum until they are done. Afterwards, you may need to do a web search for the site, as old links will not work, because the site is getting a new IP address. Please be patient. If there are bugs, we will tackle them one at a time. Remember the goal is to be up and running with no glitches by camp. Doing this now assures us of that, because it gives us all summer to get our ducks in a row. Thank you!
There is work to be done and things to be learned. We are going to try to get the old look back - or something close to it. We also know there are bugs. A thread will be started to report bugs and then we can pass those onto the host.
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They can sell to whoever they please, with the best interests of Ralphs' legacy in mind.
You think Mary Wilson and Jeff Littman are worried about the extra couple dollars Bon Jovi may offer over a local group that has zero intention of moving the team ?
Seriously ?
Anonymity is an abused privilege, abused most by people who mistake vitriol for wisdom and cynicism for wit
They can sell to whoever they please, with the best interests of Ralphs' legacy in mind.
You think Mary Wilson and Jeff Littman are worried about the extra couple dollars Bon Jovi may offer over a local group that has zero intention of moving the team ?
Seriously ?
True.... they can sell to whoever they want. However, the rest of the leagues owners have to approve the new owner. Potential league approval is just as big a part as who the Wilson's select a bid from.
They can sell to whoever they please, with the best interests of Ralphs' legacy in mind.
You think Mary Wilson and Jeff Littman are worried about the extra couple dollars Bon Jovi may offer over a local group that has zero intention of moving the team ?
Seriously ?
I'm not sure the bolded is accurate. A couple of the people who post here who are well versed in the law state that the trust may be bound by some instructions as part of the estate?
Not sure exactly. Cookie or Illumi have explained it fair better than I can.
COMING SOON...
Originally posted by Dr.Lecter
We were both drunk and Hillary did not look that bad at 2 AM, I swear!!!!!!
I'm not sure the bolded is accurate. A couple of the people who post here who are well versed in the law state that the trust may be bound by some instructions as part of the estate?
Not sure exactly. Cookie or Illumi have explained it fair better than I can.
The IRS wants taxes based on a fair price, so there is some obligation to sell to the highest bidder or the estate would face a tax liability based on the difference between a fair price and the hometown discount. Since Ralph structured this transaction to minimize his heirs' tax liabilities, it's reasonable to think he would not want the IRS to rule the sale price wasn't a fair market value.
The counter to that is there are lots of ways to stack the deck and discourage out of town bidders. The lease is a big one, we don't know if there are others.
If it's going to the highest bidder, that lease will put the ROI off for 5 years. And $30 million (mostly from spending below the cap and hiring cheap coaches - something new ownership is unlikely to do) is a terrible ROI. Adding a 5 year waiting period will price out most out of town bidders looking for a quick profit.
But I think the real value of an NFL franchise is not it's ability to generate ROI, instead it's a VERY large store of value. An investor has a reasonable expectation that their money will outpace inflation for the term of ownership. In other words, it's a good place to park a billion dollars for a really long period of time. Plus it's more fun than owning an insurance company or some other $1billion dollar investment.
If you add in some synergies with other corporate assets, you might be able project a decent ROI. The Toronto group is a real risk.
There's actually a whole tax recapture of previous expenses based on everything Ralph's done to recapture all of his previous expenditures, I do it all the time to increase the seller's yields during the sale. Every lightbulb, every drain can be broken down into individual one-time expenses, many miss it but considering Ralph has a $25,000 basis it's pretty huge.
I have many older owners down here I deal with, they use their normal accountant and hope for the best until I get done with them. When you have a $999,975,000.00 gain, you better shoot for everything you ever did. Mind you, my average deal is 100 times less than this but still pertinent.
Can someone explain to the class why the interest of the trust is not the heirs, which presumably is the Wilson family?
Secondly, where does Mary Wilson, Ralph's widow, live? I'm guessing that since Ralph lived in Detroit that so does she.
I've never heard anything, not to say that it isn't true, simply saying I've never read/heard anything about Mary or the rest of the Wilson family's interest in things related to Buffalo apart from the organization itself and things indirectly related to that, and apart from say Ralph's niece Mary Owen being employed by the team in a high capacity. But I cannot imagine that any stipulation of sale could possibly be that she continues to have a job with the organization. It's unimaginable that a future owner would be saddled with the burden of having to continue to employ former family members of the prior owner and to have to deal with the emotions and other baggage there.
What did Ralph do in Buffalo besides simply own the team and of course Bills related charities and that kind of stuff? I don't recall ever reading about anything.
Just bringing this up because everyone seems to treat Ralph, and in a lesser and indirect sense, his family members, both immediate and extended, as if they were highly involved in the Buffalo community, apart from the team, when Ralph and his wife Mary lived in Detroit.
As I've said in the past, the only reason why Ralph chose Buffalo is because Detroit already had a team. Otherwise I see his allegiance more to Detroit than here. If that's true, then why would or should his family members care more? But that's the logic being applied by many people here.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
They can sell to whoever they please, with the best interests of Ralphs' legacy in mind.
You think Mary Wilson and Jeff Littman are worried about the extra couple dollars Bon Jovi may offer over a local group that has zero intention of moving the team ?
Seriously ?
They have to do whatever the trust says. If there's any lattitude, then they'll have to do what the board decides as a board.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Can someone explain to the class why the interest of the trust is not the heirs, which presumably is the Wilson family?
Secondly, where does Mary Wilson, Ralph's widow, live? I'm guessing that since Ralph lived in Detroit that so does she.
I've never heard anything, not to say that it isn't true, simply saying I've never read/heard anything about Mary or the rest of the Wilson family's interest in things related to Buffalo apart from the organization itself and things indirectly related to that, and apart from say Ralph's niece Mary Owen being employed by the team in a high capacity. But I cannot imagine that any stipulation of sale could possibly be that she continues to have a job with the organization. It's unimaginable that a future owner would be saddled with the burden of having to continue to employ former family members of the prior owner and to have to deal with the emotions and other baggage there.
What did Ralph do in Buffalo besides simply own the team and of course Bills related charities and that kind of stuff? I don't recall ever reading about anything.
Just bringing this up because everyone seems to treat Ralph, and in a lesser and indirect sense, his family members, both immediate and extended, as if they were highly involved in the Buffalo community, apart from the team, when Ralph and his wife Mary lived in Detroit.
As I've said in the past, the only reason why Ralph chose Buffalo is because Detroit already had a team. Otherwise I see his allegiance more to Detroit than here. If that's true, then why would or should his family members care more? But that's the logic being applied by many people here.
You think Mary Wilson and Jeff Littman are worried about the extra couple dollars Bon Jovi may offer over a local group that has zero intention of moving the team ?
Well, I don't know about Mary, but one of the prevailing thoughts of the Super Bowl years is that Bill Polian left because of an argument with Littman over spending money... Ralph Wilson sided with Littman.
Does Mary Wilson care where the team ends up? That, I don't know... But, I would be wary of hinging your hopes on the team remaining in Buffalo on Jeff Littman...
Not saying they'll sell to a group wanting to relocate, not saying they won't... In short, from what I've read and heard, I simply don't trust Jeff Littman. As far as I'm concerned, he's been a big part of the problem the past 14 years, if not longer, if he truly did cause Bill Polian to leave.
They can sell to whoever they please, with the best interests of Ralphs' legacy in mind.
You think Mary Wilson and Jeff Littman are worried about the extra couple dollars Bon Jovi may offer over a local group that has zero intention of moving the team ?
Seriously ?
If Mary Wilson had the best interest of Ralph Wilson's legacy in mind, he could have transferred the team to her years ago and she could have kept it in Buffalo herself.
She values the money more than she values the team.
Any comment on the degree to which she values money vs how she values Ralph's legacy is nothing but speculation.
If Mary Wilson had the best interest of Ralph Wilson's legacy in mind, he could have transferred the team to her years ago and she could have kept it in Buffalo herself.
She values the money more than she values the team.
Any comment on the degree to which she values money vs how she values Ralph's legacy is nothing but speculation.
She clearly doesn't value the team, it would be unimaginable if she doesn't value money. That suggests that money is the priority.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
What's worrying is that Jerry Jones is a huge Bon Jovi as owner fan. It's no secret that both of those bastards want the team out of Buffalo and into a larger market.
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Originally Posted by pmoon6 
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