I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

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  • GingerP
    Registered User
    • Aug 2012
    • 1717
    #1

    I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

    Not to get sidetracked into *****ing about EJ, I don't think he is any good either. However, the coaching staff bears a bigger portion of the blame.

    The Bills threw 44 times yesterday against 23 rushes. They were playing a Texans team that was given up over 5 yards per rush this year going into the game, on the road no less. You know your young QB is suspect, yet to put the game on his shoulders? How stupid is that?

    It wasn't a case of throwing a lot late to come from behind, either. IN the first half they threw 25 passes against only 14 rushes. Those 14 rushes netted 72 yards for a healthy 5.1-yards per-rush. The 25 passes only netted 89 yards for a putrid 3.56 yards per attempt. Yet, in spite of leading at the half they still threw twice as much in the 2nd half as they ran the ball.

    People are dogging Fitz, but he has set career highs in completion percentage (65.2%) and yards-per-attempt (8.1) so far this year. Why? Because the Texans coaches know he is a pick machine that will be exposed the more he is asked to do. They have run the ball 129 times against only 113 passes. That is protecting your suspect QB, not hanging him out to dry like the Bills (132 passes against 111 rushes).

    EJ is a young guy and hasn't played well, but the coaches have done him no favors by asking him to do too much. They should be running the football more and asking EJ to be a complementary piece. EJ is taking a lot of criticism, and he has not played well, but to me the real criticism is with the coaching staff.
    Tags: None
  • Fletch
    Registered User
    • May 2007
    • 3166
    #2
    Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

    I'll agree with that generally speaking, but here's something that you didn't factor in.

    I think that they have EJ throwing the ball that many times because the running game really hasn't worked all that well except for in the first game. Except for a onesy long run by either Jackson or Spiller neither is consistently netting a good ypc avg.

    Defenses can cheat up because they know that the odds of getting burned deep by Manuel aren't good. Manuel's passes are mostly short with some medium ones in there, which clearly the staff feels that he's only capable of handling and not a lot of deep balls for reasons that you stated.

    That's the problem with a short throwing QB. Watkins was supposed to have been somewhat of a fix for that with everyone overstating his collegiate ability to take short passes and turn them into long gains. Few realized that such a transition from college to pro doesn't go well typically if ever.

    The line was horrible yesterday and not just the guards. It seems to be getting worse by the week and falling apart rapidly. Maybe defensive coordinators have figured it out, who knows.

    The things that are clear is that Watkins isn't what everyone said he was. Neither is Williams. Manuel is never going to succeed as a starting QB at the NFL level. His struggles from his years at FSU and last season continue without any signs of improvement whatsoever. Some will insist that he'll take three or four more seasons, but besides no team being able to wait that long, he won't even do it then. He's never shown an ability to correct the things he's doing wrong, ever, at either the NCAA level much less at this one. If he couldn't do it there he most clearly isn't going to do it here.
    http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

    Post #46

    Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
    (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
    Originally Posted by pmoon6
    The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

    You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

    Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

    The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
    ------

    "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

    "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

    "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

    Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

    "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

    Comment

    • Novacane
      Registered User
      • Jul 2002
      • 42348
      #3
      Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

      And many of those pass plays called were open and not executed by the QB. On the radio this morning Freddie said the Texan D alignment was why they passed more. Our biggest problem is EJ.
      • 👍 4

      Comment

      • Fletch
        Registered User
        • May 2007
        • 3166
        #4
        Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

        I think that coaching is an equal part. Both suck.
        http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

        Post #46

        Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
        (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
        Originally Posted by pmoon6
        The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

        You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

        Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

        The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
        ------

        "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

        "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

        "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

        Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

        "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

        Comment

        • MitchMurrayDowntown
          Skoobasaurus-Rex
          • Oct 2011
          • 22284
          #5
          Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

          Originally posted by Novacane View Post
          And many of those pass plays called were open and not executed by the QB. On the radio this morning Freddie said the Texan D alignment was why they passed more. Our biggest problem is EJ.
          Yeah, it's called 8 in the box & we know the QB is incapable of throwing an accurate pass.

          Comment

          • Thunderkyss
            I'm a Texan
            • Jun 2013
            • 74
            #6
            Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

            I think Manuel is getting a raw deal from the fans.

            He threw the ball 44 times, but most of them were to Spiller & Jackson, pretty much a long hand off. When he did find the open receiver down the field, they dropped the ball. Sure, none of the balls were perfect & the WR would have had to make pretty good catches... but that's what you pay them for.

            You would like your QB to be more accurate & have a better understanding of placement & anticipation, but... your best WR is rookie who is adjusting to the NFL. Those other guys, Robert Wood, et. al... should be feeling the ire of the fans more than Ej Manuel.

            The pick 6 by Watt was more of a better play by Watt & excellent blocking by Jackson than it was a poor play by Manuel (just thought I'd throw that in there).
            • 👍 1

            Comment

            • Fletch
              Registered User
              • May 2007
              • 3166
              #7
              Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

              Every team has dropped passes each week, this isn't something that only relates to us.

              Manuel may be taking more than his share of the the heat, I agree. Whaley should be taking it for Watkins. The coaching staff sucks and should be taking an equal share.

              Your point is well taken since so many here seem to think that we're still a QB away from being playoff competitive, which is a ridiculous conclusion.
              http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

              Post #46

              Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
              (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
              Originally Posted by pmoon6
              The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

              You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

              Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

              The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
              ------

              "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

              "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

              "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

              Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

              "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

              Comment

              • EDS
                Registered User
                • Jan 2003
                • 5216
                #8
                Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

                Originally posted by Thunderkyss View Post
                I think Manuel is getting a raw deal from the fans.

                He threw the ball 44 times, but most of them were to Spiller & Jackson, pretty much a long hand off. When he did find the open receiver down the field, they dropped the ball. Sure, none of the balls were perfect & the WR would have had to make pretty good catches... but that's what you pay them for.

                You would like your QB to be more accurate & have a better understanding of placement & anticipation, but... your best WR is rookie who is adjusting to the NFL. Those other guys, Robert Wood, et. al... should be feeling the ire of the fans more than Ej Manuel.

                The pick 6 by Watt was more of a better play by Watt & excellent blocking by Jackson than it was a poor play by Manuel (just thought I'd throw that in there).
                Watt is not know for swatting passes down at the line of scrimmage . . . . How could the Bills and EJ anticipate that . . . .
                • 👍 1

                Comment

                • Novacane
                  Registered User
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 42348
                  #9
                  Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

                  Originally posted by Fletch View Post
                  Every team has dropped passes each week, this isn't something that only relates to us.

                  Manuel may be taking more than his share of the the heat, I agree. Whaley should be taking it for Watkins. The coaching staff sucks and should be taking an equal share.

                  Your point is well taken since so many here seem to think that we're still a QB away from being playoff competitive, which is a ridiculous conclusion.
                  With competent QB play they win yesterday and would of been in the SD game. It's not a ridiculous conclusion. The NFL is full of average teams. The Bills are good enough to compete for a playoff spot with decent QB play.

                  Comment

                  • OpIv37
                    Acid Douching Asswipe
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 101230
                    #10
                    Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

                    This team has issues beyond EJ. No doubt about that.

                    Here's the problem though: despite questionable coaching, a patchwork OL with 2 rookies, over-relying on a rookie WR, LB's who can't cover in the passing game, a feast or famine D that over-relies on big plays, and taking far too many penalties, the rest of the team is playing well enough to win.

                    If EJ is just a little bit better, we could be 4-0. Hell, all he had to do yesterday was not throw a pick 6 and we're 3-1. He just has to be average and this team will win games.
                    MiKiDo Facebook
                    MiKiDo Website
                    • 👍 2

                    Comment

                    • justasportsfan
                      Registered User
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 71579
                      #11
                      Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

                      Originally posted by Thunderkyss View Post
                      I think Manuel is getting a raw deal from the fans.
                      You have it the other way around. THe fans are getting a raw deal with EJ at qb. He should be in the practice squad and Tuel at back up.
                      sacrifice1
                      https://theinterviewwithgod.com/video/
                      • 👍 1

                      Comment

                      • OpIv37
                        Acid Douching Asswipe
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 101230
                        #12
                        Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

                        Originally posted by justasportsfan View Post
                        You have it the other way around. THe fans are getting a raw deal with EJ at qb. He should be in the practice squad and Tuel at back up.
                        In the past, people have said that we were a QB away from winning. That was short-sighted because we had so many other issues, mainly a lack of weapons on O and a D that couldn't stop the O.

                        Now, that's no longer the case. This isn't a Super Bowl roster, but it appears as though it's talented enough to compete for a playoff spot IF they can get average QB play. EJ is the only thing holding this team back from being competitive right now.
                        MiKiDo Facebook
                        MiKiDo Website
                        • 👍 4

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                        • Fletch
                          Registered User
                          • May 2007
                          • 3166
                          #13
                          Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

                          Originally posted by OpIv37 View Post
                          In the past, people have said that we were a QB away from winning. That was short-sighted because we had so many other issues, mainly a lack of weapons on O and a D that couldn't stop the O.

                          Now, that's no longer the case. This isn't a Super Bowl roster, but it appears as though it's talented enough to compete for a playoff spot IF they can get average QB play. EJ is the only thing holding this team back from being competitive right now.
                          I disagree. The defense is very overrated. Weak linebacking from a passing perspective and a questionable secondary are big weaknesses in today's NFL.

                          Spiller isn't running well and neither are Jackson. Both have had a one or two good long runs but neither runs very consistently right now. We can blame that on the OL, but then we can blame that on the OL.
                          http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                          Post #46

                          Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                          (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                          Originally Posted by pmoon6
                          The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                          You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                          Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                          The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                          ------

                          "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                          "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                          "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                          Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                          "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                          Comment

                          • OpIv37
                            Acid Douching Asswipe
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 101230
                            #14
                            Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

                            Originally posted by Fletch View Post
                            I disagree. The defense is very overrated. Weak linebacking from a passing perspective and a questionable secondary are big weaknesses in today's NFL.

                            Spiller isn't running well and neither are Jackson. Both have had a one or two good long runs but neither runs very consistently right now. We can blame that on the OL, but then we can blame that on the OL.
                            Here's the thing though: better QB play spreads out their D so they can't concentrate on the run. It also means our D is off the field more. It will at least partially mitigate the two liabilities you described.

                            That's why I think the team can be competitive with better QB play. And again, I don't mean SB caliber. I'm just saying they would be able to win enough games to be in the playoff hunt and possibly sneak in with a few lucky breaks.
                            MiKiDo Facebook
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                            Comment

                            • justasportsfan
                              Registered User
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 71579
                              #15
                              Re: I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

                              when teams stack the line to stop the run, EJ makes the BILLS pay
                              sacrifice1
                              https://theinterviewwithgod.com/video/
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