Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

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  • Fletch
    Registered User
    • May 2007
    • 3166

    Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

    The woefully inconsistent play of the Buffalo Bills' passing game should prompt serious questions after Sunday's 23-17 loss to the Houston Texans.


    Not what a lot of you want to hear but they're the facts.

    HOUSTON -- You can blame quarterback EJ Manuel. You can blame his receivers. You can blame his offensive line.

    No matter whose fault it is, the woefully inconsistent play of the Buffalo Bills' passing game should prompt serious questions after Sunday's 23-17 loss to the Houston Texans.

    The Bills spent three first-round picks to acquire Manuel and top receiver Sammy Watkins. Given that sort of investment, those two players should be among the team's strengths. Instead, they've been Buffalo's greatest weaknesses through the first quarter of the season.

    Besides his eight-catch, 117-yard outing in Week 2, Watkins has been disappointing. His first two targets Sunday were dropped. One week ago, Watkins admitted he "took a play off" when he was unable to catch an accurate Manuel pass late in a loss to San Diego.

    Manuel had another characteristically underwhelming game Sunday, when he averaged 3.2 yards per pass attempt before an 80-yard touchdown heave to Mike Williams. It was a throw ex-Bills Ryan Fitzpatrick, Trent Edwards or even J.P. Losman could have made. It was a massive blunder on the Texans' part -- not the sort of play that separates a first-round draft pick such as Manuel from his predecessors.

    Then there was an offensive line that could have linked arms, formed a wall and still fail to block J.J. Watt. The NFL's premier defensive player could not be stopped Sunday. He reached Manuel for nine quarterback hits, an eye-opening stat that became a side note to Watt's 80-yard interception return for a touchdown that turned the tide of the game in the third quarter.

    "You got young receivers, a second-year quarterback, and you got some [young] guys on the line," Bills coach Doug Marrone said of his team. "They have to grow, and they have to grow fast."

    He's right. The Bills can't afford to wait until next season to see how Manuel matures or until 2016 to watch Watkins flourish by his third season. They paid a high price for both of those players and are leaning on both of them now. This is the path the Bills have chosen.


    The Bills traded away their first-round pick next season to add Watkins, they spent a second-round pick last season on Robert Woods, and they shipped out a sixth-round pick for the troubled Williams. Yet Manuel threw a combined 27 times to his top three receivers Sunday and completed only nine of those passes.

    If you hear an echo, that's because Manuel posted a 33 percent completion rate, identical to his receivers' completion percentage in the past week's loss, when they connected on just seven of his 21 passes to the trio of Watkins, Woods and Williams.

    Their collective struggles essentially wasted what was a respectable defensive effort. The Bills won the turnover battle -- they forced two interceptions and one fumble -- and held the Texans to 37 rushing yards.

    Cornerback Leodis McKelvin, who came away with an acrobatic interception in the second quarter, could only push the defense to do better after they won the turnover battle but lost the game.

    "When you win the turnover battle, it's a must win," he said. "You can look at the percentages. ... Once you get two or more turnovers, you're supposed to win the game. We have to do a better of going out there, situational football, make sure we get off the field when we need to. We need to get off the field [and] give the offense more chances to make plays."

    The offense had plenty of chances to make plays Sunday. It didn't. And on the whole this season, it hasn't -- even though Fred Jackson and C.J. Spiller have done their share.

    "I think the backs are running well," Marrone said. "I think that when we get into games where we throw as much as we did, that gets us in trouble."

    That's accurate, but it shouldn't be the case. Given the Bills' investment in Manuel and Watkins, they've both dropped the ball.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Bills traded away their first-round pick next season to add Watkins, they spent a second-round pick last season on Robert Woods, and they shipped out a sixth-round pick for the troubled Williams. Yet Manuel threw a combined 27 times to his top three receivers Sunday and completed only nine of those passes.

    If you hear an echo, that's because Manuel posted a 33 percent completion rate, identical to his receivers' completion percentage in the past week's loss, when they connected on just seven of his 21 passes to the trio of Watkins, Woods and Williams.
    Presumably Orton corrects that.
    http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

    Post #46

    Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
    (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
    Originally Posted by pmoon6
    The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

    You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

    Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

    The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
    ------

    "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

    "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

    "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

    Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

    "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

  • better days
    Registered User
    • Jan 2010
    • 22028

    #2
    Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

    Maybe that is the reason Orton is starting in Detroit?

    Comment

    • Fletch
      Registered User
      • May 2007
      • 3166

      #3
      Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

      Maybe, but that still doesn't explain why Watkins YPR is so low. He's currently ranked 69th in the NFL in YPR.

      If I had come on here and predicted that a month ago man the ****storm that would have resulted.

      Let's just face it, he's first of all got a lot bigger hill to climb than most here thought, and secondly his skills clearly are not transferring to the NFL like everyone that thought he was this elite WR said they would.
      http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

      Post #46

      Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
      (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
      Originally Posted by pmoon6
      The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

      You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

      Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

      The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
      ------

      "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

      "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

      "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

      Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

      "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

      Comment

      • Downinfloflo
        Victimizing The Victimizer
        • Aug 2012
        • 16560

        #4
        Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

        Sammy is fine, The guy throwing the ball to him is not.

        Unless you're 6'6 and a athletic freak like megatron you won't be catching many passes from E.J Manuel.

        Comment

        • stuckincincy
          Buffalo Bills Fan
          • Sep 2003
          • 15084

          #5
          Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

          Originally posted by Fletch View Post
          Maybe, but that still doesn't explain why Watkins YPR is so low. He's currently ranked 69th in the NFL in YPR.

          If I had come on here and predicted that a month ago man the ****storm that would have resulted.

          Let's just face it, he's first of all got a lot bigger hill to climb than most here thought, and secondly his skills clearly are not transferring to the NFL like everyone that thought he was this elite WR said they would.
          Manual has something to do with Watkin's numbers. It's pretty widespread, the feeling that BUF "overpaid." But it's only 4 games in. Time to stop banging the drum for the moment, perhaps, and see what happens the next 12?
          Fiat justitia ruat caelum. Noli timere. Laus Deo.

          Comment

          • Fletch
            Registered User
            • May 2007
            • 3166

            #6
            Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

            Originally posted by Downinfloflo View Post
            Sammy is fine, The guy throwing the ball to him is not.

            Unless you're 6'6 and a athletic freak like megatron you won't be catching many passes from E.J Manuel.
            I'm talking about when he gets the ball. Review his plays. He was supposed to have speed that is rare. Seriously, are you seeing it at this level? I'm not, sorry, but I'm just not. Sure, he's fast, but he's not so blazing fast that he's making anything even coming close to what most said and expected.

            Orton should help with the downfield balls, but still, if Watkins doesn't start doing more after the catch then he isn't living up to his draft hype. It is as simple as that. Remember, that's specificically why Whaley drafted him, because a simple 2-yard lob was supposed to usually result in something much longer. It hasn't happened even when he gets the ball.

            The piece also mentioned something like 6 drops. I'd like to see a validation of that, but if that's true and if he keeps that up he'll have 24 by year's end, a huge number of drops that would lead the league. Either way he's near the top for dropped passes.

            We'll see here over the next few weeks.


            Originally posted by stuckincincy View Post
            Manual has something to do with Watkin's numbers. It's pretty widespread, the feeling that BUF "overpaid." But it's only 4 games in. Time to stop banging the drum for the moment, perhaps, and see what happens the next 12?
            Originally posted by Downinfloflo View Post
            Sammy is fine, The guy throwing the ball to him is not.

            Unless you're 6'6 and a athletic freak like megatron you won't be catching many passes from E.J Manuel.
            Watkins wasn't drafted like that to be fine, he was drafted like that because everyone raved that he was elite and a rare receiving talent. Sorry, but there isn't anyone besides on a Bills forum that's going to claim that he's playing anywhere near an elite level right now.

            And yes, it was expected instantly and not only despite Manuel's shortcomings, but in with them in mind. With all of the other receiving skills in place speed and agility takes no adjustment to the NFL.
            Last edited by Fletch; 10-01-2014, 02:35 PM.
            http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

            Post #46

            Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
            (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
            Originally Posted by pmoon6
            The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

            You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

            Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

            The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
            ------

            "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

            "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

            "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

            Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

            "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

            Comment

            • DesertFox24
              Registered User
              • Jul 2005
              • 2129

              #7
              Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

              I am not worried about Sammy.

              Additionally the Manual experiment failed, I do think it was too early to pull the plug but kudos to Marrone for doing it. He has been around some good QBs in his time and if does not think EJ has it then so be it.

              That being said we will be drafting a qb, trading for one, or signing one in FA this offseason.

              I believe Mallett, Sanchez are the young ones that will be available that the bills will probably look at. Maybe Matt Cassell. This is of course to compete with Orton.

              Comment

              • HHURRICANE
                Registered User
                • Mar 2005
                • 15490

                #8
                Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

                Originally posted by Downinfloflo View Post
                Sammy is fine, The guy throwing the ball to him is not.

                Unless you're 6'6 and a athletic freak like megatron you won't be catching many passes from E.J Manuel.
                We have this other guy Williams, a vet, and Woods, and Chandler, etc.

                Your right on here....this not on Watkins. Plus can you blame Watkins for backing off on balls after watching Goodwin and Woods almost being decapitated.

                Manuel looks awful, plain and simple. The Bills are pretty good at coaching the talent out of just about anyone.

                What are these floating passes? It's painful.

                Comment

                • imbondz
                  Democrats are people too
                  • Jan 2003
                  • 26041

                  #9
                  Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

                  I hate to read this:

                  Besides his eight-catch, 117-yard outing in Week 2, Watkins has been disappointing. His first two targets Sunday were dropped. One week ago, Watkins admitted he "took a play off" when he was unable to catch an accurate Manuel pass late in a loss to San Diego.
                  My faith doesn’t make me perfect, it makes me forgiven.

                  Comment

                  • Dr. Who
                    Registered User
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 719

                    #10
                    Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

                    So did Randy Moss. Pretty much every receiver does, though they don't all admit it.
                    Sammy will be a superior player in the NFL.

                    Comment

                    • better days
                      Registered User
                      • Jan 2010
                      • 22028

                      #11
                      Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

                      Originally posted by imbondz View Post
                      I hate to read this:

                      Besides his eight-catch, 117-yard outing in Week 2, Watkins has been disappointing. His first two targets Sunday were dropped. One week ago, Watkins admitted he "took a play off" when he was unable to catch an accurate Manuel pass late in a loss to San Diego.
                      After all the Circus catches Sammy made in the off season, it gives one pause.

                      Did Sammy & the other receivers hands turn to stone or are they sick & tired of the poor passes EJ has been throwing them?

                      Maybe this is the reason Marrone benched EJ, he knew the receivers were ready to mutiny.

                      Comment

                      • feldspar
                        Registered User
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 13620

                        #12
                        Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

                        This article takes certain liberties to make a point. For example, the Bills did not give up a lot to get EJ Manuel; in fact, they got Kiko Alonso in the deal after they traded down. I don't think too many Bills fans would be crying into their sleeves at this point if the Bills picked Kiko Alonso at #8 last year...but they got Kiko AND Manuel with basically the same pick. There is no waste there that I can see today, whether Kiko got hurt or not. THAT'S the guy you want, and I'll thump my chest about how much I liked that guy when he was picked. I expressed that opinion here, and look it up if you have no life.

                        The wide receiver position is completely dependent on the quarterback position.

                        4 games have been played. If you want to look at stats alone, then you are not aware of how things work. If you want to focus on TWO dropped passes, then you are an idiot. Look at the wide receivers in Denver, and compare their stats before and after Peyton Manning got there. I mean you might think that these guys suck if you just looked at their stats before Manning. The he turned around and set records with these guys. There is no question what the logical conclusion is. It's as plain as day.

                        I'm pretty sure that the young Bills WRs don't really like Manuel being the Bills QB that much, no matter what they publicly profess. He's been hurting their careers and could cost them some serious bling-bling if the current trend would continue.
                        Last edited by feldspar; 10-01-2014, 07:02 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Fletch
                          Registered User
                          • May 2007
                          • 3166

                          #13
                          Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

                          Originally posted by Dr. Who View Post
                          So did Randy Moss. Pretty much every receiver does, though they don't all admit it.
                          Sammy will be a superior player in the NFL.
                          He was supposed to be a superior player immediately according to just about everyone, one of those rare talents that we only see every ten years.

                          Hasn't come close to happening. To suggest that he's been dogging it because of Manuel wouldn't say much for his professionalism. I don't think that's the case.

                          Watkins should be a fine WR but the expectations of him were outrageous given his play at Clemson.
                          http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                          Post #46

                          Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                          (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                          Originally Posted by pmoon6
                          The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                          You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                          Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                          The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                          ------

                          "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                          "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                          "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                          Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                          "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                          Comment

                          • Ginger Vitis
                            Registered User
                            • Feb 2009
                            • 3451

                            #14
                            Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

                            Originally posted by Fletch View Post
                            according to just about everyone, one of those rare talents that we only see every ten years.
                            the lies from you just keep coming

                            Comment

                            • BillsOverDolphins
                              All-Pro Zoner
                              • Jun 2003
                              • 2256

                              #15
                              Re: Bills' big investment in EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins not paying early returns

                              yellow journalism, sullying Sammy's name with the likes of that born loser
                              Oh no!...We suck again!

                              Comment

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