OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

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  • Fletch
    Registered User
    • May 2007
    • 3166
    #1

    OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

    What happened yesterday?

    Which Pats team showed up, the one that played Cincy last week, or the one that looked beaten and forlorn in their other four games? I'm asking seriously because I don't know. Seems like something in between.

    Brady had his biggest game of the season and almost matched his season total for TDs in a single game.

    It's not like he needed all-pro receiving talent to do it. No, receivers like Brandon LaFell, Julian Edelman, and Brian Tyms who was active for the first time this season beat our secondary badly.

    Did Schwartz overemphasize stopping the Pats rushing game led by two RBs that have not even established themselves as average starting RBs in the NFL, when it's clear that how well Brady played would determine the outcome of this game?

    For a couple of weeks now we've heard about how elite this D is. I don't know but it didn't seem so elite yesterday.

    Interestingly that's about the most balanced offensive team that we've played this season given the circumstances at the time we've played our opponents.

    Did McKelvin look good? How about Gilmore? Both got beaten for TDs, McKelvin badly.

    Clearly our linebacking unit which is terrible against the pass and was sorely exposed yesterday shares some of the blame.

    Another thing that seems to be popular here is the notion that our DL is the best in the NFL. How did that stack up yesterday?

    This may very well be Brady's best game of the season. I guess he might be better in our second matchup to finish out the season.

    Who still thinks that this D is elite?
    http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

    Post #46

    Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
    (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
    Originally Posted by pmoon6
    The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

    You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

    Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

    The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
    ------

    "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

    "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

    "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

    Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

    "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

    Tags: None
  • DynaPaul
    Registered User
    • Sep 2003
    • 7540
    #2
    Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

    Video tapes.
    • 👍 1

    Comment

    • WagonCircler
      Escaped Convict
      • Jul 2002
      • 5876
      #3
      Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

      What happened was Brady and Gronkowski.

      Thankfully, no other teams have that tandem.

      Comment

      • elltrain22
        Registered User
        • Sep 2003
        • 4281
        #4
        Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

        What happened was we were way to nice to them. We should've pressured Brady, rather than rush 4 and drop 7 all day. That gave Brady ample time to pick us apart. We should've put him on his butt, and been way more aggressive. I know we "don't" blitz, but yesterday, that was the smart thing to do.
        If you walk with Jesus today, you don't have anything to worry about tomorrow...

        Comment

        • yordad
          Registered User
          • Dec 2007
          • 11867
          #5
          Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

          Did you ready just dump on a d line that gave up 37 yards on 21 carries to Running backs?
          "Heck, now I am glad his overrated arce made the pro bowl, else we would have only got a 3rd." ~ yordad

          "I've just been hit with a piece of sky. " ~ yordad

          "Forgive my opinion, but...." ~ yordad

          "Warning: I might be hammered." ~ yordad

          "I don't care if the word is "your" or "you're", so buzz off. Its (it's) a frickin(') message board." ~ yordad

          Comment

          • Fletch
            Registered User
            • May 2007
            • 3166
            #6
            Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

            Originally posted by WagonCircler View Post
            What happened was Brady and Gronkowski.

            Thankfully, no other teams have that tandem.
            Yes, partially, but Gronk didn't even score. Two deep passes and one medium pass for 3 passing TDs did not involve Gronk.
            http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

            Post #46

            Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
            (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
            Originally Posted by pmoon6
            The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

            You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

            Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

            The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
            ------

            "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

            "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

            "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

            Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

            "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

            Comment

            • Fletch
              Registered User
              • May 2007
              • 3166
              #7
              Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

              Originally posted by yordad View Post
              Did you ready just dump on a d line that gave up 37 yards on 21 carries to Running backs?
              No, I dumped on a supposed top DL in the NFL that couldn't generate any pressure on Brady and which apart from Gronk made a very average set of otherwise 2nd string, if not 3rd (Tyms and Wright) look like superstars en route to a near 400 yard passing performance that's sure to rank among the top few for any QB this season.

              Ridley? Vereen? I said before the game that after Chicago this would be the most balanced offense we'll have played, it was. That doesn't mean that they have good RBs, they don't.
              http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

              Post #46

              Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
              (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
              Originally Posted by pmoon6
              The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

              You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

              Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

              The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
              ------

              "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

              "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

              "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

              Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

              "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

              Comment

              • WagonCircler
                Escaped Convict
                • Jul 2002
                • 5876
                #8
                Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

                Originally posted by Fletch View Post
                Yes, partially, but Gronk didn't even score. Two deep passes and one medium pass for 3 passing TDs did not involve Gronk.
                I think he made every important first down in the entire game. He extended countless drives that led to scoring.

                Comment

                • RedEyE
                  Registered User
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 24661
                  #9
                  Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

                  Unacceptable.

                  The Patriots have basically two players on offense to worry about, Brady and Gronk. Poor showing by the Bills D players and poor game plan by Schwartz.

                  On the opposite side of the ball the Patriots have been a revolving door for most of the season. TURNOVERS. Poor line play. Bad play selection.

                  Just simply unacceptable.
                  • 👍 1

                  Comment

                  • Fletch
                    Registered User
                    • May 2007
                    • 3166
                    #10
                    Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

                    Originally posted by WagonCircler View Post
                    I think he made every important first down in the entire game. He extended countless drives that led to scoring.
                    Let's evaluate that statement.

                    First Pats TD was an Edelman/Vereen short pass fest until Wright got hit for the TD. Gronk not involved statistically. (61-yard drive)

                    First two Pats FG drives Gronk not involved statistically.

                    Second Pats TD was another short pass fest until Tyms caught a TD pass over Gilmore. Gronk not involved statistically. (80-yard drive)

                    Third FG drive Gronk caught pass for 33 then got injured subsequently.

                    Third Pats TD had one Gronk pass nullified due to a penalty, he caught a 10 yarder on 2nd-and-22 otherwise before LaFell caught that 18-yarder on 3rd-and-12 while being wide open directly over the middle on a play that looked like we had 7 DBs on the field. (80-yard drive)

                    Fourth Pats TD had the first pass in a 93-yard drive go to Gronk short for 8 yards after the catch on 1st-and-10, an incompletion to Gronk on the next play, and then Gronk's only 3rd-down conversion on a 3rd-and-16 for 17 yards putting the Pats at their own 46 before LaFell torched McKelvin for a 56-yard TD.

                    So, of 277 yards on the Pats' four scoring drives, Gronk had 35 yards, or all but 242 yards, and 1 3rd-down conversion.

                    Do you think that the facts back up what you said?

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Originally posted by RedEyE View Post
                    Unacceptable.

                    The Patriots have basically two players on offense to worry about, Brady and Gronk. Poor showing by the Bills D players and poor game plan by Schwartz.
                    Thanks for being the first one to be honest.
                    http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                    Post #46

                    Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                    (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                    Originally Posted by pmoon6
                    The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                    You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                    Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                    The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                    ------

                    "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                    "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                    "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                    Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                    "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                    Comment

                    • Fletch
                      Registered User
                      • May 2007
                      • 3166
                      #11
                      Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

                      And granted, Gronk's a touch assignment, but with everyone talking about how great Preston Brown, Spikes, and Bradham are, apart from the notion that they're not, we'd think that they could have covered him better.

                      And what of Spikes? He made three solo tackles, one was a rush after a 10-yard gain.

                      The fact is that our LBs aren't nearly as good as so many here seem to think, they're a mediocre bunch. Schwartz seems to be doing the opposite of what Pettine did, he overemphasizes the rushing D, which is great if we're playing 20 years ago.

                      Our entire secondary from Gilmore to Aaron Williams and Searcy was exposed yesterday for the average at best players that they are.

                      Next week vs. Minnesota is now an enormous game. Lose and the cascade of boos will be heard from the stadium to Niagara Falls. Barely win and beat a team with a struggling QB and passing game, a team desperately trying to find a RB to start in place of Peterson, and a struggling Greg Jennings and otherwise 2nd string group of receivers and TEs, and it's also not going to look good for a home game.

                      They're not a good team and have been blown out three times and lost 17-3 at home to a team that we just beat 17-14 on the road.

                      If this team is really as good as many here seem to think then it should be an easy win in Buffalo. It could very well be the easiest game left on our schedule and rivals the Oakland game in that way.

                      If it's close or worse yet we lose, then I'd say this season is well on track to be just like always.
                      http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/sho...s-haters/page3

                      Post #46

                      Originally posted by Yasgur's Farm
                      (Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
                      Originally Posted by pmoon6
                      The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.

                      You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.

                      Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.

                      The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
                      ------

                      "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

                      "We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."

                      "We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.

                      Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)

                      "And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley

                      Comment

                      • Ed
                        Registered User
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 9245
                        #12
                        Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

                        Aaron Williams >>> Duke Williams.

                        Comment

                        • notacon
                          Registered User
                          • Aug 2012
                          • 32991
                          #13
                          Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

                          The explanation is that this Defense was NEVER "elite". Anyone who said so was a dreamer. A defense is "elite" when they can show, through at least one full season, that they play elite.

                          They will have their moments. Does not mean they are elite.

                          When an TRUE elite QB and an elite coach goes against the Bills defense...they expose them for what they are. You may hate Belichick and Brady, but, they have proven time and time and time again that they are the elite QB and coach of the NFL.

                          Comment

                          • yordad
                            Registered User
                            • Dec 2007
                            • 11867
                            #14
                            Re: OK, so we need an explanation here. About this elite D?

                            Originally posted by Fletch View Post
                            No, I dumped on a supposed top DL in the NFL that couldn't generate any pressure on Brady and which apart from Gronk made a very average set of otherwise 2nd string, if not 3rd (Tyms and Wright) look like superstars en route to a near 400 yard passing performance that's sure to rank among the top few for any QB this season.

                            Ridley? Vereen? I said before the game that after Chicago this would be the most balanced offense we'll have played, it was. That doesn't mean that they have good RBs, they don't.
                            So... in short... it is the D-lines fault that our secondary cant cover... with our back up safeties?
                            "Heck, now I am glad his overrated arce made the pro bowl, else we would have only got a 3rd." ~ yordad

                            "I've just been hit with a piece of sky. " ~ yordad

                            "Forgive my opinion, but...." ~ yordad

                            "Warning: I might be hammered." ~ yordad

                            "I don't care if the word is "your" or "you're", so buzz off. Its (it's) a frickin(') message board." ~ yordad

                            Comment

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