Whaley on WGR talking E.J........are you listening?

[wolfpack]

http://www.wgr550.com/

[wolfpack]

On Demand Link:

http://media.wgr550.com/a/99240331/11-18-bills-general-manager-doug-whaley-on-the-howard-simon-show.htm?

[Bill Cody]

give me the Reader's Digest please

[wolfpack]

give me the Reader's Digest please

Go to the On Demand Link and hover over the status bar as it plays, it will give you Captions. You can even search for keywords in the audio, perfect if you can't listen to ALL 12 minutes.

[Albany,n.y.]

give me the Reader's Digest please

EJ was a Buffalo Bills decision, everyone, himself included was on board with the selection. EJ wasn't supposed to come right in & play, Kolb was supposed to mentor him last year.

[Bill Cody]

Go to the On Demand Link and hover over the status bar as it plays, it will give you Captions. You can even search for keywords in the audio, perfect if you can't listen to ALL 12 minutes.

no

- - - Updated - - -


EJ was a Buffalo Bills decision, everyone, himself included was on board with the selection. EJ wasn't supposed to come right in & play, Kolb was supposed to mentor him last year.

thank you

[Fletch]

EJ was a Buffalo Bills decision, everyone, himself included was on board with the selection. EJ wasn't supposed to come right in & play, Kolb was supposed to mentor him last year.

Well, that cookie crumbled, so instead of just Whaley even more reason to clean house then.

Could just be Whaley shoving the buck downline. Either way, at the end of the day he's the one that must check off on the decision and he's taken responsibility, again, see video in my sig. Sounds like he's trying to render some scapegoats. I'd have far more respect for him if he took the same position that he does in the video.

Did anyone question him on why he hinged the entirety of our team's future, not to mention his, on Kolb of all QBs as a mentor and teacher? What about the QB coach, the OC and HC? WTF are Kolb's credentials for that?

I mean really now. That would make a helluva lot more sense if it were Jim Kelly or even Frank Reich, much less Brady or someone else, but Kolb? And we're supposed to buy this ****?

These guys, from Whaley on down, are only showing how much in over their heads they are with these sorry excuses.

[k-oneputt]

These last six games should decide their future.

If it was me calling the shot, they would have to go 4-2 minimum.

With Pegula I really don't have a good read on him yet so who knows what he is thinking and will do, or not do.

[trapezeus]

Well, that cookie crumbled, so instead of just Whaley even more reason to clean house then.

Could just be Whaley shoving the buck downline. Either way, at the end of the day he's the one that must check off on the decision and he's taken responsibility, again, see video in my sig. Sounds like he's trying to render some scapegoats. I'd have far more respect for him if he took the same position that he does in the video.

Did anyone question him on why he hinged the entirety of our team's future, not to mention his, on Kolb of all QBs as a mentor and teacher? What about the QB coach, the OC and HC? WTF are Kolb's credentials for that?

I mean really now. That would make a helluva lot more sense if it were Jim Kelly or even Frank Reich, much less Brady or someone else, but Kolb? And we're supposed to buy this ****?

These guys, from Whaley on down, are only showing how much in over their heads they are with these sorry excuses.

Genius move by Whaley. "if i'm going down for this, i'm publically taking everyone with me. we all were in on it."

[trapezeus]

These last six games should decide their future.

If it was me calling the shot, they would have to go 4-2 minimum.

With Pegula I really don't have a good read on him yet so who knows what he is thinking and will do, or not do.

i just don't know what to make of this team this year, and especially next. Starting over will essentially give up on the defensive players. but the team's coaching isn't going to make the offense any better this year. and if they get an outlier moment and go 4-2 or 6-0, i don't trust them to repeat that performance ot support the d the following year.

i think marrone's ceiling is to make the playoffs. why stick around for just that? if the pegulas and their advisers think they can build a better longn term answer, then it's worth starting over. frankly, a new head coach could take the current talent and actually utilize it properly.

[better days]

Well, that cookie crumbled, so instead of just Whaley even more reason to clean house then.

Could just be Whaley shoving the buck downline. Either way, at the end of the day he's the one that must check off on the decision and he's taken responsibility, again, see video in my sig. Sounds like he's trying to render some scapegoats. I'd have far more respect for him if he took the same position that he does in the video.

Did anyone question him on why he hinged the entirety of our team's future, not to mention his, on Kolb of all QBs as a mentor and teacher? What about the QB coach, the OC and HC? WTF are Kolb's credentials for that?

I mean really now. That would make a helluva lot more sense if it were Jim Kelly or even Frank Reich, much less Brady or someone else, but Kolb? And we're supposed to buy this ****?

These guys, from Whaley on down, are only showing how much in over their heads they are with these sorry excuses.

NOBODY can say EJ is a bust yet when he has not even played enough games to make up a single season.

Orton has been mentoring him & the reports are EJ is IMPROVING.

[Fletch]

These last six games should decide their future.

If it was me calling the shot, they would have to go 4-2 minimum.

With Pegula I really don't have a good read on him yet so who knows what he is thinking and will do, or not do.

I agree. They'll be lucky to go 2-4 though. If it were me calling the shots the second we hit our 8th loss or are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention, whichever came first, I'd give Whaley his walking papers.

Agree on Pegula. Some have insisted to me that there's no chance on earth that he cans anyone after the season, which to me would be an enormous mistake and squandered opportunity to clean house. As I expressed to that person this seems like a mini homers v. realists thing and on this I'm falling on the side of the "homers" by hoping that he does clean house.

One or two posters pointed out that Pegula has created some consulting group/team or whatever to advise him, but I have no idea who that is worth their credentials wouldn't advise him to ditch Whaley which would in turn result in a new coaching staff, and quite possibly ditch most if not all of the personnel dept. too.

Anyone can see that Whaley's **** the bed a couple of times now. Left in, who knows what further future damage he'll do in the interests of saving his own ass. Think about what he'd have to trade to get a 1st for this season. It would all but wipe us out for two offseasons.



Genius move by Whaley. "if i'm going down for this, i'm publically taking everyone with me. we all were in on it."

I'm not saying it isn't smart, but it is dishonest and doesn't say much for someone that would say what he said in the linked video at the time, and setting himself up over everyone else to look like the brains behind the move, while then trying to dish off the same here and now.

I mean is that someone that deserves respect, our respect? Sounds more like the typical politician.

As to being smart he should also start thinking about his post-Bills future, I'm not sure that throwing everyone under the bus when you're on record in numerous places claiming credit for the failure of Manuel, is a smart thing to do. It comes across as if he wants the credit for things that work out but none of the responsibility if they don't. Who wants to hire someone like that.

[OpIv37]

NOBODY can say EJ is a bust yet when he has not even played enough games to make up a single season.

Orton has been mentoring him & the reports are EJ is IMPROVING.

One thing people like you are so quick to forget: EJ showed literally ZERO improvement. There was not one thing he did better in his last game before getting benched than in his first start as a rookie.

And we've heard reports of guys improving in practice too... Easley, TJ Graham, McCargo....

[k-oneputt]

I'm also not big on drafting these little/speed wr's.
Another move they like doing every couple of years. {Goodwin/Graham}
These type guys are always injured
At least I THINK they are over the stupid move of wasting picks on kickers.

[trapezeus]

OP, imagine the team we'd have if we drafted the concensus pick instead of TJ graham or McCargo. Rusell Wilson and Nick Mangold.

Literally the next 4 players after mccargo went to the probowl at least once.

And that's all you need to know on why everyone should be given the pick slip.

[better days]

One thing people like you are so quick to forget: EJ showed literally ZERO improvement. There was not one thing he did better in his last game before getting benched than in his first start as a rookie.

And we've heard reports of guys improving in practice too... Easley, TJ Graham, McCargo....

EJ played pretty well the two games the Bills won with him at QB.

And Graham scored a TD for the Jets Sunday which the Bills failed to do on Thursday.

[trapezeus]

EJ is a great backup. he's capable of going .500 and apparently going to the bench quietly when asked.

EJ needs a huge step up in accuracy. i'm all for keeping him to be a backup and see if it comes, but the bills can't have two backups on the roster and expect to be a playoff team. this has been the MO since Bledsoe left.

[Strongman]

EJ was a Buffalo Bills decision, everyone, himself included was on board with the selection. EJ wasn't supposed to come right in & play, Kolb was supposed to mentor him last year.

If that's the case, then it sounds like there is some serious groupthink going on in the front office's evaluation process.

[better days]

If that's the case, then it sounds like there is some serious groupthink going on in the front office's evaluation process.

Nix & Whaley have both said that is the teams philosophy.

Everyone has input & gives their opinion & the GM makes the final decision.

[GreedoII]

One thing people like you are so quick to forget: EJ showed literally ZERO improvement. There was not one thing he did better in his last game before getting benched than in his first start as a rookie.

And we've heard reports of guys improving in practice too... Easley, TJ Graham, McCargo....

EJ doesn't have it. it was a stupid pick and it will cost jobs as it should with the giving up the 1st rd pick compounding it. Ineptitude reigns as long as that ass wipe Brandon is there

[trapezeus]

Nix & Whaley have both said that is the teams philosophy.

Everyone has input & gives their opinion & the GM makes the final decision.

15 year sample of it not working. is it time to change or just wait for the next excuse they come up with?

[Fletch]

I'm also not big on drafting these little/speed wr's.
Another move they like doing every couple of years. {Goodwin/Graham}
These type guys are always injured
At least I THINK they are over the stupid move of wasting picks on kickers.

Depends upon the WR don't you think?

Nothing wrong with Antonio Brown, TY Hilton, or Desean Jackson.

Big difference between them and the 3rd round track stars we get.

[Strongman]

Nix & Whaley have both said that is the teams philosophy.

Everyone has input & gives their opinion & the GM makes the final decision.

It's the "everyone, including himself, was on board" part that I'm worried about. Someone should have dissented based on how a few national scouting reports had EJ pegged as a 4th rounder. It seems like each year, the Bills come up with a pick that has all the experts raising their eyebrows. In fairness, they sometimes do come up with homerun.

I think our front office should look at their drafting process and how they come up with their board.

[Fletch]

It's the "everyone, including himself, was on board" part that I'm worried about. Someone should have dissented based on how a few national scouting reports had EJ pegged as a 4th rounder. It seems like each year, the Bills come up with a pick that has all the experts raising their eyebrows. In fairness, they sometimes do come up with homerun.

I think our front office should look at their drafting process and how they come up with their board.

Exactly, and yes, as a stern reminder, most if not all experts had Manuel going in rounds 2-5. I can't recall one that had him going in the 1st at all. The Bills were seriously criticized and questioned by them for that decision.

That's the problem with our FO, just because we take a player in the 1st-round doesn't mean he was a 1st-round talent.

Manuel, Spiller, Maybin, McKelvin, Whitner, McCargo, Mike Williams, Erik Flowers. And the whole McGahee circumstances were ridiculous too.

Frankly, the fact that the entire FO was in on Manuel should have been more of a flag than vote of confidence given their 1st-round history.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Manuel, Spiller, Maybin, McKelvin, Whitner, McCargo, Mike Williams, Erik Flowers. And the whole McGahee circumstances were ridiculous too.
Spiller was definitely a 1st rounder by all counts.

[Fletch]

Spiller was definitely a 1st rounder by all counts.

OK

Maybe that's why our team sucks, too many picks like that. He's posted one "1st-round" season in five.

I don't think that you'd find too many people that aren't Bills fans agreeing with you. If you're correct, then we should have had no trouble whatsoever in recouping a 1st-rounder for him. I hadn't heard that there was even a 2nd being offered.

[Strongman]

Exactly, and yes, as a stern reminder, most if not all experts had Manuel going in rounds 2-5. I can't recall one that had him going in the 1st at all. The Bills were seriously criticized and questioned by them for that decision.

That's the problem with our FO, just because we take a player in the 1st-round doesn't mean he was a 1st-round talent.

Manuel, Spiller, Maybin, McKelvin, Whitner, McCargo, Mike Williams, Erik Flowers. And the whole McGahee circumstances were ridiculous too.

Frankly, the fact that the entire FO was in on Manuel should have been more of a flag than vote of confidence given their 1st-round history.

Yes, they seem to be very good at ignoring the red flags. As someone with a little background in how groups come to decisions, the FO seems to be particularly good at disregarding evidence and letting emotion guide their decisions.

[Fletch]

Yes, they seem to be very good at ignoring the red flags. As someone with a little background in how groups come to decisions, the FO seems to be particularly good at disregarding evidence and letting emotion guide their decisions.

I have no idea how they do it there. I'm guessing that it's much like most teams do it which is probably pretty similarly. I've never had the privilege of having been in the "war room" for any team, which would be kinda cool though.

But here's the thing, this very article was out prior to that draft. The fact that absolutely no one caught it is the stunning part. If they did catch it, then shame on them all or on the person that held it back.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2013/4/25/4264734/nfl-draft-2013-ej-manuel-next-level-florida-state

That went up the morning of the draft. I posted it here following the draft. But if I were any team looking at my first, I definitely would have had someone looking for every last little bit of info on the player in question. Especially when reaching like that which the entire team must've known they were reaching. The fact that in theory not one single scout or other personnel person claims to have challenged the pick tells me that the FO is either full of yes-men or full of fools.

That article should have been more than enough to have cautioned any team into drafting Manuel in the 1st. What's funny about our FO is that after just about every draft their excuse for making a heavily criticised move is how some other team was going to take that player. There are so many things wrong with such a notion. In hindsight that analysis is so on the money re: Manuel.

How can they not have one person questioning that decision in any seriousness when there were hardly any experts even projecting Manuel in the 1st and when few even had him going 1st overall for QBs. That right there throws up a bull**** flag on the notion that they were all in agreement. Someone's lying somewhere.

What, the entire FO agreed on Maybin too? McKelvin? Spiller? McCargo? etc. Yeah right. If so, then clearly we know what the problem is.

[wolfpack]

For the "click challenged" or LAZY!


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Whaley on WGR

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Bills' Whaley discusses Orton, Marrone, EJ and 4th down on WGR (http://www.wgr550.com/content_page.php?contentType=50&contentId=440503&fGId=17694&fGCTId=47&tempId=39872&tId=2&gId=1593)
While the players on the Buffalo Bills are resting comfortably at home during the snow storm on their scheduled day off, general manager Doug Whaley was at work trying to get on the road to scout prospects, as well as conducting an interview with WGR Spors Radio 550 Tuesday. He said a lot of interesting things, head inside to read it all!

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While the players on the Buffalo Bills are resting comfortably at home during the snow storm on their scheduled day off, general manager Doug Whaley was at work trying to get on the road to scout prospects, as well as conducting an interview with WGR Sports Radio 550.

Whaley appeared on The Howard Simon Show on Tuesday morning amidst all the state of emergencies, driving bans and flight cancellations, and discussed many of the topics that have driven the Bills-related conversations around western New York.

Kyle Orton, the future of EJ Manuel, the trade of Sammy Watkins, head coach Doug Marrone, going for it on fourth down -- all topics were on the table. With so much that was discussed, here are the complete questions and answers, separated by topics:

On Kyle Orton

Q: Orton has missed some throws in the last two games, is that the biggest issue?

A: I think two factors: one, there's a book put out there on Kyle, so teams are game planning. When he was in there early, they weren't sure how we were gonna use him, so that's out there. But, like you said, it goes back to converting by making big plays in certain situations, but we can do some things to help him. And again, I think that's on the shoulders of our offensive line and our running game, and it's gotten better. But obviously with the results the last two weeks, it's not good enough.

Q: What do you think of Kyle Orton's play through six games?

A: Encouraged, but obviously not good enough for what we're looking for and what we're trying to do. There's some things that he brings to our team in veteran leadership, and a calming effect out there and a sense that all our guys on the team -- especially on offense -- believe he can get us out of any situation and propel us to victory. Like you said, he's missed a couple of throws, but I think he's kept us in games.

Q: Can Kyle Orton get better, or is this who Kyle Orton is?

A:I think he can get better. I think we all can get better. We can get better across the board as a team. But the more and more a quarterback is around a team and around receivers that he hasn't worked with -- because you have to understand, he just got here a week before the season starts. Then he just starts working full time with these receivers six games ago. So, the more and more he's around and the more and more they get a feel and they can do the head nod and he knows where they're going to be and they know what he's expecting... we feel that's just going to propel our offense to get better and better.

Q: When you look at the QB position, how do you evaluate it right now? Is that a position you might explore in the offseason?

A: Let me look at this way. We're in a results based business, and has he done some really good things? Absolutely. But the last two games, it hasn't been up to par because we're in this business to win. Will he get better? Yes. Will we get better? That's the plan. Now for the future right now, we're looking at the New York Jets because we're in playoff mode, fellas, right now. I know everybody's saying what about next year, next year, but our sole focus in this organization right now is the New York Jets. And we'll deal with everything else after the season like we always do.

On EJ Manuel

Q: Is it a lost season for EJ Manuel?

A: We believe it's not because it goes back to our original plan. When we first drafted EJ, you guys understood, we had the plan of having a veteran quarterback come in and mentor him until we thought he was ready. Now when Kevin Kolb went down with injury, it thrust EJ into the starting role quicker than we expected. Now since then, we have reset to the original plan. And I will tell you this: since EJ has taken a step back, everybody in the building has been impressed with his work ethic, and we've seen an improvement in the way he attacks practice and his production in practice.

Q: What was your opinion of Manuel coming out of college and how much you believed in his ability to be a franchise quarterback in the NFL?

A: We were all on board with the pick. It's one of those things where everybody was obviously... when it was Buddy, it's going to be attached to Buddy. When it's me, Sammy's going to be attached to my name. But when you're going through a scouting process, especially with the guys in the top four to five rounds, you're going to have five to six opinions. And what we do is we collectively come up with a Buffalo Bills opinion. So, EJ Manuel was a Buffalo Bills pick, and all of us were on board with it.

Q: Does EJ look ready to play?

A: That's one of those things where you can never really gauge because you don't know until the bright lights come on, but what you do like to see is progress and not repeating the same mistakes that he was doing before and improving on anything that he needed to when he was in the starting role.

On Doug Marrone

Q: GM-Coach relationship when it comes to deciding game day roster decisions, is it exclusively the role of the coach, or do you get involved?

A: Here's how we do it as the Buffalo Bills, and I'm not sure, I can't speak on other teams. Coach Marrone and I have constant conversation throughout the week about game planning and game day actives just because of injury issues. And if there's an injury and an injury replacement, we'll talk about that and say 'hey, this is what I'm thinking game planning.' But make no mistake about it, when it comes down to the 46 it's in the hands of coach. But, again, we are in constant conversation and I know his line of thinking and the reasons why he's doing what he's doing.

Q: Would you say your coach tends to play it a bit close, tends to play conservative style?

A: I look at it this way, I think he gets a feel for the game and a feel for the team and applies that to making the decision on each decision. It's just like a manager, when do you throw in the relief pitcher and when do you bring in the closer. A lot of it is based on analytic information, a lot of it is based on feel, and a lot of it is based on the flow of the game. I think as a coach, and our coach, he takes a combination of all that information which we talked about before and makes a decision off of that.

On 4th downs

Q: Are analytics involved in game day decisions, like 4th down decisions?

A: Well, our analytics department is used for multiple things throughout the organization. It's just not one specific area. What we like to do is to use analytics as a layer of information to help us on game day. It's not our sole reason for making a decision, but we're a big organization that the more information you can get, the better decision you make and analytics is a layer to help us on game day.

Q: What do analytics show about 4th downs?

A: I will have to do some more research, but there's a lot of variables that go into that. What time of game is it, what type of personnel, how have you been performing because analytics can say yeah, go for it on 4th-and-1, but if our running game has not been playing well, then you kind of use that information to say well.... a lot of it goes with gut feeling. As I said, it's a layer of information and I don't think you can use it as a sole reason for making decisions... especially on game day and especially in a sport like football where there's 11 players that have to be in precise unison and there's so many different variables that can affect that decision. Unlike a sport like baseball where it's really 1-on-1, a pitcher versus a hitter.

[Fletch]

Seem like pretty canned answers.

Also, we heard so much about that new metrics department.

[Strongman]

I have no idea how they do it there. I'm guessing that it's much like most teams do it which is probably pretty similarly. I've never had the privilege of having been in the "war room" for any team, which would be kinda cool though.

But here's the thing, this very article was out prior to that draft. The fact that absolutely no one caught it is the stunning part. If they did catch it, then shame on them all or on the person that held it back.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2013/4/25/4264734/nfl-draft-2013-ej-manuel-next-level-florida-state

That went up the morning of the draft. I posted it here following the draft. But if I were any team looking at my first, I definitely would have had someone looking for every last little bit of info on the player in question. Especially when reaching like that which the entire team must've known they were reaching. The fact that in theory not one single scout or other personnel person claims to have challenged the pick tells me that the FO is either full of yes-men or full of fools.

That article should have been more than enough to have cautioned any team into drafting Manuel in the 1st. What's funny about our FO is that after just about every draft their excuse for making a heavily criticised move is how some other team was going to take that player. There are so many things wrong with such a notion. In hindsight that analysis is so on the money re: Manuel.

How can they not have one person questioning that decision in any seriousness when there were hardly any experts even projecting Manuel in the 1st and when few even had him going 1st overall for QBs. That right there throws up a bull**** flag on the notion that they were all in agreement. Someone's lying somewhere.

What, the entire FO agreed on Maybin too? McKelvin? Spiller? McCargo? etc. Yeah right. If so, then clearly we know what the problem is.

Exactly, there was a lot of information out there about EJ that they disregarded. It's almost like this FO is trying to show they are smarter than everybody else by going with their pick instead of what the general consensus is on that pick. Then they are surprised when that pick blows up in their faces.

I wish I could see what is going on behind the scenes of this FO, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if it was some kind of echo chamber effect going on where a pick gets hyped up to the point where they lose all sense of reality regarding the picks value. Like this year, I think Watkins is great, but I do think they ended up paying too much for him. Time will tell though.

[Fletch]

Like this year, I think Watkins is great, but I do think they ended up paying too much for him. Time will tell though.

I don't think that there's much question that they gave away way too much. Right now Benjamin and Beckum both have better average games and, this is key, both are far more consistent. Watkins is about the most inconsistent of all of the 1st and 2nd round rookie WRs.

Hogan's not far behind his average production and has the same QB. So what should that tell us?

[better days]

15 year sample of it not working. is it time to change or just wait for the next excuse they come up with?

Nix was not with the Bills for the last 15 years let alone Whaley.

poor excuse of a post.

[Strongman]

I don't think that there's much question that they gave away way too much. Right now Benjamin and Beckum both have better average games and, this is key, both are far more consistent. Watkins is about the most inconsistent of all of the 1st and 2nd round rookie WRs.

Hogan's not far behind his average production and has the same QB. So what should that tell us?

Good points. I agree. You know, looking at how this FO drafts WRs, they appear to have a huge bias for speed over other attributes (like catching a ball). Goodwin and Graham were drafted too high. It also makes me wonder if CJ was overdrafted simply because of his speed.

[WagonCircler]

EJ played pretty well the two games the Bills won with him at QB..

NO HE DID NOT.

The Bills won in spite of him.

He was awful.

You can repeat that piece of fiction over and over, but that doesn't make it true.

He sucks and he sucked. Period.

[starrymessenger]

I'm also not big on drafting these little/speed wr's.
Another move they like doing every couple of years. {Goodwin/Graham}
These type guys are always injured
At least I THINK they are over the stupid move of wasting picks on kickers.

Some little receivers are actually big time players.
They just somehow never wind up on the Bills roster, though we are out there competing for them.
Antonio Brown, E. Saunders, TY Hilton, John Brown etc...

[better days]

NO HE DID NOT.

The Bills won in spite of him.

He was awful.

You can repeat that piece of fiction over and over, but that doesn't make it true.

He sucks and he sucked. Period.

You are flat out WRONG.

EJ had a rating of 91.7, CMP% 72.7, 1 TD passing, 1 TD rushing, 1 INT against the Bears. Bills won 23-20

EJ had a rating of 98.6, CMP% 61.5, 1 TD passing 0 INT against the Fins. Bills won 29-10

Those are good numbers. Especially when compared to Ortons numbers the last two games.

The fiction is that EJ sucked in his wins. EJ played MUCH better in those games than Orton did in the last two he played. FACT.

[Homegrown]

Manuel, Spiller, Maybin, McKelvin, Whitner, McCargo, Mike Williams, Erik Flowers. And the whole McGahee circumstances were ridiculous too.



I often think that I could draft better than the Bills just by purchasing "Lindy's" draft magazine at the Walgreens each spring .....

[trapezeus]

Nix was not with the Bills for the last 15 years let alone Whaley.

poor excuse of a post.

poor excuse to say one guy wasn't there. the rest of them have been there. they are managed at the top by smithers...i mean brandon. you can keep changing the tires on this thing, but the motor is the thing that's the issue.

[X-Era]

OK

Maybe that's why our team sucks, too many picks like that. He's posted one "1st-round" season in five.

I don't think that you'd find too many people that aren't Bills fans agreeing with you. If you're correct, then we should have had no trouble whatsoever in recouping a 1st-rounder for him. I hadn't heard that there was even a 2nd being offered.
When exactly was the last trade for a RB where a team recouped a 1st rounder? It's like buying new cars; the second you take them off the lot they lose value.

This argument has been had ad nauseum. The data points can't only include the Bills 1st round results... that's not the data to look at. It's how the Bills 1st round results stack up with the rest of the league. I think we're about on par overall.

[YardRat]

I'm good with Whaley, regardless of if EJ flames out or becomes a Pro Bowler. As anything, that's subject to change over time.

[Albany,n.y.]

When exactly was the last trade for a RB where a team recouped a 1st rounder? It's like buying new cars; the second you take them off the lot they lose value.

This argument has been had ad nauseum. The data points can't only include the Bills 1st round results... that's not the data to look at. It's how the Bills 1st round results stack up with the rest of the league. I think we're about on par overall.

Trent Richardson-last year.
Other RBs traded for 1st rounders: Curtis Martin Jets (NE received 1st & 3rd round picks as compensation for him as a restricted free agent), Ricky Williams to Miami from NO for 2 1st rounders, and of course Herschel Walker from Dallas to Minnesota for a load of picks & OJ to SF for picks including what became the 1st pick in the draft.

[X-Era]

Trent Richardson-last year.
Other RBs traded for 1st rounders: Curtis Martin Jets (NE received 1st & 3rd round picks as compensation for him as a restricted free agent), Ricky Williams to Miami from NO for 2 1st rounders, and of course Herschel Walker from Dallas to Minnesota for a load of picks & OJ to SF for picks including what became the 1st pick in the draft.RB's are a dime a dozen at this point and many thought the Richardson trade was a waste by the Colts.

No one is paying a 1st rounder for Spiller and that is not a reflection on Spillers talent. Richardson did little for either team... Teams aren't dumb and the Colts move was an anomaly.

[djjimkelly]

all this means is EJ sooner then later and i do thinks things would be much different if kolb would have been healthy here the last 2 years. not for better or worse just better for long term view then right now

[Fletch]

When exactly was the last trade for a RB where a team recouped a 1st rounder? It's like buying new cars; the second you take them off the lot they lose value.

This argument has been had ad nauseum. The data points can't only include the Bills 1st round results... that's not the data to look at. It's how the Bills 1st round results stack up with the rest of the league. I think we're about on par overall.

Draft pick values are pretty formularized. Everyone knows that a 1st next year is worth a 2nd this year. So a 1st this year would have to be worth far more than a 1st next year because next year's 1st is worth a 2nd this year. A 1st in 2017 would be worth only a 2nd or early 3rd this year.

Spiller isn't worth a 1st anyway. He's worth nothing now anyway, he's not even under contract after the season. The time to have traded him would have been prior to the trade deadline before he got hurt anyway.

[Fletch]

Good points. I agree. You know, looking at how this FO drafts WRs, they appear to have a huge bias for speed over other attributes (like catching a ball). Goodwin and Graham were drafted too high. It also makes me wonder if CJ was overdrafted simply because of his speed.

Absolutely they do, and fans, many here, eat it up. The FO drafts like kids in a candy shop and many fans react favorably.

Watkins was largely drafted for his speed. Remember, his assets were supposed to be after he had the ball in his hands, which kind of renders the discussion about our QBs moot since he's not even better after the catch than his rookie peers in the 1st and 2nd.