Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

[trapezeus]

Pros
1. The Bills needed that game and beat the jets soundly on offense, special teams and defense.
2. woods had a great game
3. They actually went for it on 4th and 1, didn't get it and had their d bail them out. just like most of us had been clamouring for.
4. As bad as the bills offensive consistency is, they can stay in games if they don't turn the ball over.
5. there is some moment in dominant defensive games for the bills where you kind of feel like someone is going to die. i think the ivory hair take down followed up by huge hit on kerley made you wonder if 53 people were going to be on the plane back to NYC

Cons
1. The bills offense still doesn't do anything consistently. they had a chance after scoring the opening drive touchdown to at least eat clock and dictate the game, but they couldn't find their way. It came down to an incredible team effort. but at some point, the o will need to carry a game if you really are a playoff team. they should be able to set the tempo and let the defense rest.
2. They didn't carry schwartz off the field again
3. There was a play by geno smith where the bills missed the sack and he ended up in his own lineman's hands and then blindly threw a duck into the air that was caught by his own team. if that was intercepted and returned for a touchdown, that would have been the butt fumble play of geno's career and he would have been effectively run out of the NFL after that play. Another missed opportunity.

[Fletch]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

I think that is all fairly obvious.

How did Watkins do? Was he the reason why we won?

Just asking because you said that after wins I don't say anything about him. So here I am bringing it up. Naturally you'll complain, but at least I won't have disappointed you this week.

LOL

How did Woods manage to put up a career game, his best ever, and play superbly with such a crappy QB while Watkins didn't really contribute?

You sure that Watkins isn't overrated? He's now had 7 of 11 games 35 yards or fewer and only 3 100-yard games.

[Pinkerton Security]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

I think that is all fairly obvious.

How did Watkins do? Was he the reason why we won?

Just asking because you said that after wins I don't say anything about him. So here I am bringing it up. Naturally you'll complain, but at least I won't have disappointed you this week.

LOL

How did Woods manage to put up a career game, his best ever, and play superbly with such a crappy QB while Watkins didn't really contribute?

You sure that Watkins isn't overrated? He's now had 7 of 11 games 35 yards or fewer and only 3 100-yard games.

Once again, you wonder why people bash you.

Did you ever stop to think perhaps the Jets were scheming to stop Watkins? And that Woods was getting single coverage all day, leading to him having a big day?

Oh, no, that is simply the way football works so you dont understand it.

[OpIv37]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

Watkins was double covered all game. That left Woods in one on one and allowed him to get open all game.

If Watkins was out and it was Hogan or Williams lining up on the other side, I guarantee Woods sees a long more zone and double coverage and doesn't have nearly the production. It's a team game. Just because Watkins didn't have video game numbers like the last time we played the Jets doesn't mean he didn't have an impact.

[Fletch]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

Special WRs find ways to get open.

Care to comment on any of his other 6 games where he's been held below 35 yards? Anyone.

[djjimkelly]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

i say if anything its not a con on watkins its a con on orton becuz why wasnt he throwing to woods already.

but orton is playing great.

sammy is fine some weeks he has to carry the load other weeks he can be a decoy


this is the first week orton actually CONSISTENTLY threw to woods all year.

[Saratoga Slim]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

I think that is all fairly obvious.

How did Watkins do? Was he the reason why we won?

Just asking because you said that after wins I don't say anything about him. So here I am bringing it up. Naturally you'll complain, but at least I won't have disappointed you this week.

LOL

How did Woods manage to put up a career game, his best ever, and play superbly with such a crappy QB while Watkins didn't really contribute?

You sure that Watkins isn't overrated? He's now had 7 of 11 games 35 yards or fewer and only 3 100-yard games.

Hard to say he's overrated. On a pure eyeball test alone he looks like a truly elite athlete, and when he's been healthy he's had some performances that you don't often see from rookie receivers.

I think it's pretty clear that the groin injury is limiting him. You could see it on two of his drops yesterday, particularly that one low, back-shoulder throw on the out pattern in what I think was the second quarter. He's fine in a straight line, but having a lot of trouble making agility moves when he needs to adjust to the ball.

Questions about whether he's overrated really only have any legitimacy if you're talking about whether the trade-up was worth it. And that's not something I feel completely comfortable arguing about until I see where we finish and thus what draft pick we give to Cleveland next year.

[trapezeus]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

Once again, you wonder why people bash you.

Did you ever stop to think perhaps the Jets were scheming to stop Watkins? And that Woods was getting single coverage all day, leading to him having a big day?

Oh, no, that is simply the way football works so you dont understand it.

even though there was routinely double coverage on watkins and he can catch what's thrown to him 3 of the 5 targets. even with the announcers repeatedly saying that woods was benefitting to how the jets were on sammy.

fletch/very wide right is a special kind of stupid.

he's had a groin injury and a rib injury for most of the season. he has the most catches of a rookie going into last night.... only a guy like fletch would want to see 100 yard games every week and then have some other excuse to not like watkins.

and to play the fletch card myself, "my post was about something else, why are you attacking me about things i didn't say here? Waaaaaaa"

[Mahdi]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

Once again, you wonder why people bash you.

Did you ever stop to think perhaps the Jets were scheming to stop Watkins? And that Woods was getting single coverage all day, leading to him having a big day?

Oh, no, that is simply the way football works so you dont understand it.

It really depends on how they were double covering Watkins...

If they were simply going man to man with a safety over the top then there are still a lot of routes designed to get him the ball, like a slant or crosser or comebacks.

However if they were constantly rolling a LB underneath Watkins with a CB man to man then it becomes harder to get him the ball.

I still don't agree with the few amount of targets Watkins is getting.

3rd and 2 in the 3rd quarter I believe and the CB was playing 10 yards off of Watkins. A quick hitch out to him would have gained at least 7 yards if not more with some YAC and we don't even look that way. That is a major issue. Brady would take that all day.

[Fletch]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

Hard to say he's overrated. On a pure eyeball test alone he looks like a truly elite athlete, and when he's been healthy he's had some performances that you don't often see from rookie receivers.

I think it's pretty clear that the groin injury is limiting him. You could see it on two of his drops yesterday, particularly that one low, back-shoulder throw on the out pattern in what I think was the second quarter. He's fine in a straight line, but having a lot of trouble making agility moves when he needs to adjust to the ball.

Questions about whether he's overrated really only have any legitimacy if you're talking about whether the trade-up was worth it. And that's not something I feel completely comfortable arguing about until I see where we finish and thus what draft pick we give to Cleveland next year.

Well here's the thing, a lot of rookie WRs have had performances that we typically don't see from rookie WRs. Beckum, Benjamin, and Evans have all had those games this season. Even Jordan Matthews is in that camp and he's not even their 1st WR and Foles was having a relatively subdued season. I've been paying particular attention to them this season. In fact, this is shaping up to be a record shattering season for rookie WRs. IMO a lot of that has to do with the passing/receiving game rules changes from last season to this one coupled with the fact that it was a rich WR draft class, more the former however.

Watkins was said to have been an elite prospect with skills that the others did not possess, and I'm just not seeing that at this point. In fact, I've seen skills or traits in the other WRs that I don't think that Watkins has to the same extent.

Of course it's about the trade-up, which few, now, seem to think was worth it. There were more at the beginning of the season that liked that deal. If Watkins had been picked with our original 9th thereby no cashing out the future, no one would have said a thing. Watkins should prove to have been worth a 1st in the long run.

You mention the two drops, which I did not mention today, but he doesn't catch with his groin. At least one of those was very catchable, and as the commentators pointed out, he had all week and a day extra to rest his groin which didn't seem to be bothering him last week.

What kills me is that the excuses for Watkins not performing up to the lofty standards of his draft status and draft reviews range from double coverage, to QB issues, to a groin injury, etc., when the other rookies have some of the same things. Benjamin is the 1st WR on his team, to suggest that he's not seeing double coverages is ridiculous, and Newton's having an awful year, worse than our QBs. Evans' QB situation is no better either and he's been double covered a lot. Beckum's the primary target in NY now too since Cruz got hurt. To suggest that he's not seem doubles is faulty.

Anyway, I'm just not seeing that extra athleticism in Watkins over WRs like Beckum, particularly Beckum, Evans, or Benjamin. We'll see if he improves next season. I don't think that too many think that the trade was worth it at this point though and some argue that but say the same thing which is confusing. I'll post a poll asking out of curiosity. If anything that's simply an indictment of those that pulled the trigger on that trade.

[Fletch]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

only a guy like fletch would want to see 100 yard games every week and then have some other excuse to not like watkins.

I gotta tell ya, I would definitely like to see something other than a 19-35 yard game on less than 10 ypr and 0 TDs 2/3 of the time. It would also be nice to see him put up a big game against a playoff team like his peers have done.

Yes.

I find it stunning that you A, accept that as adequate as a Bills fan, and B, that you elevate that to levels of anything but questionable given the circumstances.

[better days]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

Well, I watched this game at the local bar expecting to be surrounded by Jets fans.

To my surprise, like Ford field, Bills fans took the place over. GREAT GAME.

[Captain gameboy]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

Pros.

Had a lengthy conversation with my son about the worst individual unit in the history of the NFL, and we agreed that it is the Jets kickoff return team.

[Topas]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

Cons ...
2. They didn't carry schwartz off the field again
...

haha, that comment made me laugh. Especially at Con :-)
However, I thought that was really stupid. It is not like Schwartz did not get a fair chance in Detroit. Act like you ve been there before.

[Fletch]

Re: Pros and Cons from the game - Jets

I still don't agree with the few amount of targets Watkins is getting.

Statistically speaking Watkins has gotten more targets than any other rookie besides Benjamin.

He ranks tied for 20th in the league for targets and tied with Gronkowski, Forte, and 35-year old Steve Smith who has 5 more catches and 133 more yards. Smith had 745 receiving yards in 15 games last season, he's hardly prolific although he's having a good season in Baltimore.

Watkins has one fewer target than either Brandon Marshall or Reggie Wayne. He's tied with the leading RB and leading TE for targets.

How many more do you want him to get? He's clearly not doing as much with the ones he's getting than many other WRs or even his rookie peers. Watkins is currently 6th in catch % behind fellow rookies Cooks, Beckum, Matthews, Evans, and Robinson. Significantly behind the first four and insignificantly ahead of only Benjamin.