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Re: Bills Have The Best 3rd Down Defense In The NFL
That is amazing.
Seems we always struggled in that dept. for years. Even last year under Pettine, we couldn't deliver on key 3rd down opportunities. The middle of the field was always wide open for the run or pass.
Anonymity is an abused privilege, abused most by people who mistake vitriol for wisdom and cynicism for wit
..Or a decent red zone rate from our Offense, which cost us at least 2 wins.
I get the point but the D has done their job...the point of the thread.
Our Red Zone defense is ranked 16th and we're also ranked 10th in allowing 1st downs. So how do we evaluate all three together? Do we just say that our Red Zone D and Total 1st's D are irrelevant? I'd argue that the 3rd down % is the least critical of the three. For what it's worth. but obviously teams are getting 1st downs more regularly than against most teams on 1st and 2nd downs, at least that's the obvious conclusion.
Also for consideration
Made
Att
Pct.
3rd % Rank
1st Downs
1st Avg
1st Rank
PA
Result
New England
7
15
47%
9
22
23.7
3
37
L
Miami
5
16
31%
16
23
22.5
7
10
W
@ Miami
4
9
44%
16
24
22.5
7
22
L
Chicago
5
12
42%
15
29
21.2
11
20
W
KC
3
13
23%
6
16
20.5
16
17
L
Houston
5
14
36%
26
19
19.5
20
23
L
SD
5
13
38%
5
20
19.4
21
22
L
Detroit
1
11
9%
21
13
19.3
22
14
W
@ Jets
9
19
47%
22
22
18.3
25
23
W
Minnesota
5
16
31%
27
16
18.3
25
16
W
Jets
3
15
20%
22
11
18.3
25
3
W
By the way, average is around 40%.
Again, to me it looks like we've done very well against the lesser competition and teams that have poor offenses but not against average or better offenses. Buf if we can only routinely hold teams that rank in the 20's in 1st down generation to low 3rd down %, does that really mean that our D is as good as many say it is?
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Re: Bills Have The Best 3rd Down Defense In The NFL
I think that what sums up our defense better than anything is whether or not we end up with takeaways in a given game.
We've generally beaten teams that are prone to making turnovers but have proven equally unable to beat teams that are not. We can credit the D for that which is somewhat reasonable, but if we only generate those takeaways against teams ranked average or worse in generating them then we have to chalk a lot of it up to their propensities for doing that too. Otherwise we would be doing it against teams ranked in the top-10 for not making them, like Cleveland, GB, NE, and Denver.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
I think that what sums up our defense better than anything is whether or not we end up with takeaways in a given game.
We've generally beaten teams that are prone to making turnovers but have proven equally unable to beat teams that are not. We can credit the D for that which is somewhat reasonable, but if we only generate those takeaways against teams ranked average or worse in generating them then we have to chalk a lot of it up to their propensities for doing that too. Otherwise we would be doing it against teams ranked in the top-10 for not making them, like Cleveland, GB, NE, and Denver.
I agree, takeaways are important, but the most important stat for the defense is points allowed.
I agree, takeaways are important, but the most important stat for the defense is points allowed.
I agree, so let's discuss this then. By the way, I trust you had a good Thanksgiving!
If against teams that rank average and above offensively we cannot routinely hold them to their average points or fewer, how good do you think that our D really is?
I'll put it another way, if the only time that our D holds opponents to below average points is when those teams rank in the 20s or 30s for scoring O, but we cannot do it otherwise, is our D good?
I'll put it a third way, if all we do is beat the hell out of the weak kid, does that make us strong? Or do we need to first prove ourselves against the stronger kids to be able to brag?
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
I agree, so let's discuss this then. By the way, I trust you had a good Thanksgiving!
If against teams that rank average and above offensively we cannot routinely hold them to their average points or fewer, how good do you think that our D really is?
I'll put it another way, if the only time that our D holds opponents to below average points is when those teams rank in the 20s or 30s for scoring O, but we cannot do it otherwise, is our D good?
I'll put it a third way, if all we do is beat the hell out of the weak kid, does that make us strong? Or do we need to first prove ourselves against the stronger kids to be able to brag?
Well, the only game the Bills gave up a lot of points was the Pats* game.
The Bills defense held the Lions to 14 points, that is a GOOD offense.
The Bills defense held the Bears & Chargers to 20 points each. Those are both good offenses.
We will see how they do the rest of the season against some GOOD teams.
But don't forget, playing a lot of minutes on a short field because of an inept offense will affect any defense.
And the Bills defense has done that much of this year.
And yeah, I had a great Thanksgiving, hope you did as well.
Well, the only game the Bills gave up a lot of points was the Pats* game.
The Bills defense held the Lions to 14 points, that is a GOOD offense.
The Bills defense held the Bears & Chargers to 20 points each. Those are both good offenses.
We will see how they do the rest of the season against some GOOD teams.
But don't forget, playing a lot of minutes on a short field because of an inept offense will affect any defense.
And the Bills defense has done that much of this year.
That's not true.
Pats' season average scoring is 32.5, we allowed them 37, almost 5 points over. Does a top ranked D do that?
The Lions' offense sucks, all it had was Tate who posted a career day, the best ever in his career. Is a top ranked defense completely unable to take an offense's only proven player out of the game, or at least not allow him to post a career game to keep them in it until they miss a FG so that we can win? Detroit's offense is ranked 24th in scoring. They average 19.3 ppg, usually with Calvin Johnson in the game who wasn't in ours. We allowed them 14. Three teams, all with significantly worse defenses, held the Lions to fewer points, 9, 7, and 6, in two of those games with Calvin Johnson and Bell playing and in the other with CJ, Bell, and Bush all playing. Two of those teams have offenses that are no better than ours.
SD ranks 15th in scoring, Chicago 21st. SD is average and Chicago is below average. SD averages 22.3 ppg, we allowed them 22, average. Does a top ranked D allow that to a team that struggles when traveling east? Chicago averages 21.1, we allowed them 20, just about their average.
We will see how they do against some good offenses, but to date we have not played well against any average or better offense except for against the Fins in week 2. We really haven't played many except for Miami and NE, but shouldn't that raise questions as to why our D is ranked so well when we cannot play well against average or better offenses? There's one exception, KC, who also traveled east, but while ranking well in scoring do not move the ball well ranking 23rd in yardage offense.
As to your short field comment that's also untrue. We currently rank 12th in defensive starting field position, so that's above average. So no, the Bills defense has not done much of that this year relative to other teams, it has done less of it in fact than average.
I've told you all of these things before, do you not read them, or do you read them and ignore them? I don't get it. There's way to much ignoring of significant information in this place which predictably results in people overemphasizing and overrating key aspects of this team.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Hopefully it's a huge building block for next season when we still won't have a really good QB
unless the new ownership change the management at 1BD, we'll probably sign 2 OL in FA for too much money, let CJ and Orton walk, draft 2 dbs and cut mario williams and brandon spikes... that is the typical buffalo bills offseason.
My wife told me that if I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, girls would find me VERY attractive.
unless the new ownership change the management at 1BD, we'll probably sign 2 OL in FA for too much money, let CJ and Orton walk, draft 2 dbs and cut mario williams and brandon spikes... that is the typical buffalo bills offseason.
LOL
Although I shouldn't be laughing too hard. You got that right. Although losing Spiller and Spikes won't hurt us. Need to keep Mario around though and Orton too. Maybe Orton will be a little better next season after a full offseason.
I'm afraid that Whaley's going to try to make himself look good and "bold" by making some dumb move to trade away our 2016 & 2017 1st rounders to try to move up to get a QB or some other player.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Originally Posted by pmoon6 
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