Pride's 10 First Half Observations

[Pride]

1. Middle of 1st defense looked soft against Raven Interior line and RB's

2. Special Teams Protection looks terrible!

3. Looks like KG abandoned the run again too quickly. Unless he is only looking for passing at this point in the preseason. My guess is we are 2 to 1 pass to run. Same as last year.

4. Travis Brown looks terrible

5. AVP looked pretty good, he seems to have the offense down pat.

6. Safety Coverage on TE is sketchy

7. Defensive Pursuit (aside from first series) looks good on the corners

8. Lack of discipline. Too many false starts/holding calls

9. Moorman and Lindell look good

10. I still don't like Greg Williams


:tomato:

[Typ0]

Gilbride sucks.

[TypicalBill]

i agree with everything except this


3. Looks like KG abandoned the run again too quickly. Unless he is only looking for passing at this point in the preseason. My guess is we are 2 to 1 pass to run. Same as last year.


we were balanced ... threw 15 and ran 14



whereas if it was last year, we woulda thrown 22 and ran 7..

[venis2k1]

Originally posted by Pride
8. Lack of discipline. Too many false starts/holding calls

first pre season game, and we are still a pretty young team.

[Pride]

Originally posted by TypicalBill
we were balanced ... threw 15 and ran 14


Ok, cool... makes me feel better.


Originally posted by venis2k1
first pre season game, and we are still a pretty young team.

Maybe... but it still doesn't excuse it. Dropped passes... things like that I can deal with. Not mental mistakes. Holding I can even deal with... but M. Williams needs to get his head out of his ass by next week.

[MDFINFAN]

I was at the game, if you were balance in runs\Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced.

Was TH hammy hurting, didn't see him, and we had no explanation. For those who watched on TV, please help with that one.

Your O:
Drew: wasn't anything especial tonight..Didn't throw any INT's though.
Receivers were well covered.
OL: Protection for passing wasn't bad, but run blocking looked a little sloppy.
I don't think Moulds caught anything. Reed was covered well.
Short and Flat passes by TE and RB was your best bet tonight.
Defense:'
Adams got knock down when he rush the passer..it was a one on one and the center or guard just knocked him down straight up.
He and Pat were a non issue when the Ravens ran up the middle, they avg. 4 yards each time.
I watch Adams especially since you guys know how I feel about him. he stands straight up and the OL gets to his body and pushes him around. I just don't like him. Wys and I sat together and he will verify this later when he writes up his report.
LB's had problems covering the TE and RB out of the backfield. Did a good job in the redzone. Spikes was pretty active, didn't see Flecther do a lot or Poisy. Winfield and Cements were good in coverage.
Your depth guys or 2nd and 3rd Stringers weren't too good at all. Both sides of the ball, except for Irons, solid player. Your younger receivers were pretty good also.
Travis was unimpressive, he was like night and day, there were times he threw fantastic and most of the time his passes looked indecisive. I must give credit to the Raven's starting D. they looked awesome. Either you guys were flat, or they were in midseason form

Your return ST's tonight was excellent. Your coverage teams were a little shaky.

I won't go into too many details as there were a lot of members on this board from the bills there who will give more details

[SABURZFAN]

i didn't see the game but thanks for pointing out those observations whether they were good or bad.

[Cntrygal]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
I was at the game, if you were balance in runs\Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced.

Was TH hammy hurting, didn't see him, and we had no explanation. For those who watched on TV, please help with that one.

Your O:
Drew: wasn't anything especial tonight..Didn't throw any INT's though.
Receivers were well covered.
OL: Protection for passing wasn't bad, but run blocking looked a little sloppy.
I don't think Moulds caught anything. Reed was covered well.
Short and Flat passes by TE and RB was your best bet tonight.
Defense:'
Adams got knock down when he rush the passer..it was a one on one and the center or guard just knocked him down straight up.
He and Pat were a non issue when the Ravens ran up the middle, they avg. 4 yards each time.
I watch Adams especially since you guys know how I feel about him. he stands straight up and the OL gets to his body and pushes him around. I just don't like him. Wys and I sat together and he will verify this later when he writes up his report.
LB's had problems covering the TE and RB out of the backfield. Did a good job in the redzone. Spikes was pretty active, didn't see Flecther do a lot or Poisy. Winfield and Cements were good in coverage.
Your depth guys or 2nd and 3rd Stringers weren't too good at all. Both sides of the ball, except for Irons, solid player. Your younger receivers were pretty good also.
Travis was unimpressive, he was like night and day, there were times he threw fantastic and most of the time his passes looked indecisive. I must give credit to the Raven's starting D. they looked awesome. Either you guys were flat, or they were in midseason form

Your return ST's tonight was excellent. Your coverage teams were a little shaky.

I won't go into too many details as there were a lot of members on this board from the bills there who will give more details


Thanks for the notes! But one thing scares me.....


Wys and I sat together and he will verify this later when he writes up his report.

Could you convince him to keep it under 1000 words?

:biggrin:

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by Cntrygal



Thanks for the notes! But one thing scares me.....


Wys and I sat together and he will verify this later when he writes up his report.

Could you convince him to keep it under 1000 words?

:biggrin:

:lol!:

you're asking for the impossible.

[bernielivsey_1]

:afro: Travis banged his knee up in Clevland. Just a precaution.

:poem: How come when ever you hear or read about someone
in the O talk about the O (about how comfortable they are in the second year, with the changes with the returning O line and all that stuff) it never comes out in practice, scrimage, or pre's. Yes yes I know its early but I'm a little concerned. If our O plays much worse we should change our name to the Buffalo Dolphins. :luvletr:

[Ingtar33]

I love decisive statements like " if you were balance in runs/Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced."

when the stats were thus...
Passing: 31
Running: 28

with Bledsoe:
8 passes
7 runs

With VanPelt
2 passes
5 runs

with Brown
21 passes
16 runs

You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.

About the Bills O-line
-pass blocking was perfect until the 3rd stringers got in
-The first team run blocking was not good, not bad but definitely not good, especially from Teague and Sullivan.

The Bills D
-1st team pass rush was non-existent (outside of some good pressure form Schobel a few times), and Ryan Denney looked as bad as he did last year.
-Coy Wire's going to be a player
-the LB corps looked good, from top to bottom, with the first unit guys all over the field, and the second and third teamers looking good.
-good job by the DBs
-pass rush improved as the night wore on, showing that we have sort of a parity throughout the line, with the falloff from the backups to the starters not being all that big. Good depth no stars... McKenzie looked fabulous rushing form the DT position, and Kelsey looked better than Denney against the run and pass. Jones looked sluggish.
-The first team D allowed a 2.5ypc average... a VAST improvement over last year, with the only runs of note coming AT Denney, and one 4 yarder where Lewis got hit on the LoS by Schobel and fell forward for 4 yards.

Now a quick point.
With Denney, Schobel, Williams, Adams out there, J.Lewis averaged 2.5 ypc... explain to me how the middle of our D looked soft, when 10 of his yards came on 2 runs at the DEs (4 more runs for 6 yards the rest of the way)?

The only thing that frightened me was our Kick Coverage, and lack of Pass Rush form the 1st stringers.

[Cntrygal]

Ingtar,

Please don't let comments from others prevent you from posting. I really enjoy reading your posts and have learned alot from them.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.



:rofl:

Atta boy, Ingy.... let the mongoloids have it. :punchu:

[don137]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
I was at the game, if you were balance in runs\Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced.

I don't think Moulds caught anything.


With Bledsoe they only passed one more time then running the ball and AVP passed only two balls. Moulds caught two out of Bledsoe's four completions. You may have been at the game but I am not sure how much you were watching (maybe it was the beer) but I guess as a fin fan I understand all your negatives statement and infrequent positive comments (just as the Bills fans, except Wys, will be more bias with positive comments).

The important thing is there were no major injuries.

[TypicalBill]

Originally posted by don137
With Bledsoe they only passed one more time then running the ball and AVP passed only two balls. Moulds caught two out of Bledsoe's four completions. You may have been at the game but I am not sure how much you were watching (maybe it was the beer) but I guess as a fin fan I understand all your negatives statement and infrequent positive comments (just as the Bills fans, except Wys, will be more bias with positive comments).

The important thing is there were no major injuries.


:up: Good post


and there were no injuries yesterday... *knocking every single part of me against the wooden table

[Ebenezer]

welcome back Ing!!

[jdbillsfan]

I was at the game too. I thought Denny didn't look good at all, but when they lined up Posey as the LDE, he got pressure and the defense looked a lot better.

I only saw a few plays where he did that and it looked good. I don't think the Bills wanted to blitz that much, but when they did it worked. Spikes got in on one pretty fast and almost had a sack. The starting front four, with Denny, Adams, Williams and Schoebel, didn't get much pressure on their own.

I think they played a pretty basic defense though, which might have been one of the reasons.

I thought Posey looked like a definite upgrade over Robinson and I think he'll have a great year. Wire, Clements, Posey, Spikes, Fletcher and P. Williams all looked good on D. Didn't see much from the others, but it's hard to see everyone....

Offense was a little shaky, but I got the feeling that they were getting more in a groove after the first couple series. Moulds was open a couple times, but they didn't look his way.

Not sure why Charles Johnson is still getting so much PT. Didn't see Aiken out there at all.

Mike Williams had a few too many false starts. Not a good sign.

Clements int changed the whole game around, imo.

go bills.

[BillsOwnAll]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
I was at the game, if you were balance in runs\Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced.

Was TH hammy hurting, didn't see him, and we had no explanation. For those who watched on TV, please help with that one.

Your O:
Drew: wasn't anything especial tonight..Didn't throw any INT's though.
Receivers were well covered.
OL: Protection for passing wasn't bad, but run blocking looked a little sloppy.
I don't think Moulds caught anything. Reed was covered well.
Short and Flat passes by TE and RB was your best bet tonight.
Defense:'
Adams got knock down when he rush the passer..it was a one on one and the center or guard just knocked him down straight up.
He and Pat were a non issue when the Ravens ran up the middle, they avg. 4 yards each time.
I watch Adams especially since you guys know how I feel about him. he stands straight up and the OL gets to his body and pushes him around. I just don't like him. Wys and I sat together and he will verify this later when he writes up his report.
LB's had problems covering the TE and RB out of the backfield. Did a good job in the redzone. Spikes was pretty active, didn't see Flecther do a lot or Poisy. Winfield and Cements were good in coverage.
Your depth guys or 2nd and 3rd Stringers weren't too good at all. Both sides of the ball, except for Irons, solid player. Your younger receivers were pretty good also.
Travis was unimpressive, he was like night and day, there were times he threw fantastic and most of the time his passes looked indecisive. I must give credit to the Raven's starting D. they looked awesome. Either you guys were flat, or they were in midseason form

Your return ST's tonight was excellent. Your coverage teams were a little shaky.

I won't go into too many details as there were a lot of members on this board from the bills there who will give more details
should we make a fin vs bucs report?

[Billz_fan]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
I love decisive statements like " if you were balance in runs/Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced."

when the stats were thus...
Passing: 31
Running: 28

with Bledsoe:
8 passes
7 runs

With VanPelt
2 passes
5 runs

with Brown
21 passes
16 runs

You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.

About the Bills O-line
-pass blocking was perfect until the 3rd stringers got in
-The first team run blocking was not good, not bad but definitely not good, especially from Teague and Sullivan.

The Bills D
-1st team pass rush was non-existent (outside of some good pressure form Schobel a few times), and Ryan Denney looked as bad as he did last year.
-Coy Wire's going to be a player
-the LB corps looked good, from top to bottom, with the first unit guys all over the field, and the second and third teamers looking good.
-good job by the DBs
-pass rush improved as the night wore on, showing that we have sort of a parity throughout the line, with the falloff from the backups to the starters not being all that big. Good depth no stars... McKenzie looked fabulous rushing form the DT position, and Kelsey looked better than Denney against the run and pass. Jones looked sluggish.
-The first team D allowed a 2.5ypc average... a VAST improvement over last year, with the only runs of note coming AT Denney, and one 4 yarder where Lewis got hit on the LoS by Schobel and fell forward for 4 yards.

Now a quick point.
With Denney, Schobel, Williams, Adams out there, J.Lewis averaged 2.5 ypc... explain to me how the middle of our D looked soft, when 10 of his yards came on 2 runs at the DEs (4 more runs for 6 yards the rest of the way)?

The only thing that frightened me was our Kick Coverage, and lack of Pass Rush form the 1st stringers.


:bf1:

[TypicalBill]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
I love decisive statements like " if you were balance in runs/Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced."

when the stats were thus...
Passing: 31
Running: 28

with Bledsoe:
8 passes
7 runs

With VanPelt
2 passes
5 runs

with Brown
21 passes
16 runs

You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.

About the Bills O-line
-pass blocking was perfect until the 3rd stringers got in
-The first team run blocking was not good, not bad but definitely not good, especially from Teague and Sullivan.

The Bills D
-1st team pass rush was non-existent (outside of some good pressure form Schobel a few times), and Ryan Denney looked as bad as he did last year.
-Coy Wire's going to be a player
-the LB corps looked good, from top to bottom, with the first unit guys all over the field, and the second and third teamers looking good.
-good job by the DBs
-pass rush improved as the night wore on, showing that we have sort of a parity throughout the line, with the falloff from the backups to the starters not being all that big. Good depth no stars... McKenzie looked fabulous rushing form the DT position, and Kelsey looked better than Denney against the run and pass. Jones looked sluggish.
-The first team D allowed a 2.5ypc average... a VAST improvement over last year, with the only runs of note coming AT Denney, and one 4 yarder where Lewis got hit on the LoS by Schobel and fell forward for 4 yards.

Now a quick point.
With Denney, Schobel, Williams, Adams out there, J.Lewis averaged 2.5 ypc... explain to me how the middle of our D looked soft, when 10 of his yards came on 2 runs at the DEs (4 more runs for 6 yards the rest of the way)?

The only thing that frightened me was our Kick Coverage, and lack of Pass Rush form the 1st stringers.



WELCOME BACK!!

[TypicalBill]

With Denney, Schobel, Williams, Adams out there, J.Lewis averaged 2.5 ypc... explain to me how the middle of our D looked soft


:gag:

[WG]

Originally posted by Pride
1. Middle of 1st defense looked soft against Raven Interior line and RB's

3. Looks like KG abandoned the run again too quickly. Unless he is only looking for passing at this point in the preseason. My guess is we are 2 to 1 pass to run. Same as last year.

You're an idiot!

No, :jk:,

:D

Nice observations!! Agree w/ all.

on 3., big shocker, eh!

As well, I don't think KG likes Travis Brown, so even if he does step up his play, I'm not sure his future here looks good. KG was giving him a first class tongue lashing on the sidelines for several minutes after one drive.

Not that I thought Brown played well, but where's Buddy Ryan when you need him....

:D

On 1., MD and I watched Adams closely, and I'm gonna say it straight up!

If last nights game was the indication, Adams ain't much better than what we had last year.

He played very upright and seemingly off balance. He got pushed around by guys much smaller than him. He was extremely slow to the gaps if he ever got there at all!!!

If there was one player that I was highly unimpressed with it was Adams and quite frankly, if that's all we're gonna get outta him, first of all, perhaps we should have drafted William Joseph, but second of all, other than name or lack of another DT, :rolleyes:, just like last year, he wouldn't even necessarily win the starting job.

I'll assume that weight and/or conditioning were factors and see what he does in the next couple of preseason games, but he didn't look anything other than very average if even that. He looks like a slob who can't play football! He had no power whatsoever!

[colin]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
I love decisive statements like " if you were balance in runs/Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced."

when the stats were thus...
Passing: 31
Running: 28

with Bledsoe:
8 passes
7 runs

With VanPelt
2 passes
5 runs

with Brown
21 passes
16 runs

You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.

About the Bills O-line
-pass blocking was perfect until the 3rd stringers got in
-The first team run blocking was not good, not bad but definitely not good, especially from Teague and Sullivan.

The Bills D
-1st team pass rush was non-existent (outside of some good pressure from Schobel a few times), and Ryan Denney looked as bad as he did last year.
-Coy Wire's going to be a player
-the LB corps looked good, from top to bottom, with the first unit guys all over the field, and the second and third teamers looking good.
-good job by the DBs
-pass rush improved as the night wore on, showing that we have sort of a parity throughout the line, with the falloff from the backups to the starters not being all that big. Good depth no stars... McKenzie looked fabulous rushing form the DT position, and Kelsey looked better than Denney against the run and pass. Jones looked sluggish.
-The first team D allowed a 2.5ypc average... a VAST improvement over last year, with the only runs of note coming AT Denney, and one 4 yarder where Lewis got hit on the LoS by Schobel and fell forward for 4 yards.

Now a quick point.
With Denney, Schobel, Williams, Adams out there, J.Lewis averaged 2.5 ypc... explain to me how the middle of our D looked soft, when 10 of his yards came on 2 runs at the DEs (4 more runs for 6 yards the rest of the way)?

The only thing that frightened me was our Kick Coverage, and lack of Pass Rush form the 1st stringers.

You misspelled 'from', so this post is worthless.

[colin]

OK so that was a joke.

POST MORE INGTAR, STOP THE MADNESS PLEASE!!!!!

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN


1. I was at the game, if you were balance in runs\Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced.


2. I don't think Moulds caught anything.

3. Adams got knock down when he rush the passer..it was a one on one and the center or guard just knocked him down straight up.
He and Pat were a non issue when the Ravens ran up the middle, they avg. 4 yards each time.
I watch Adams especially since you guys know how I feel about him. he stands straight up and the OL gets to his body and pushes him around. I just don't like him.

4. I won't go into too many details as there were a lot of members on this board from the bills there who will give more details

1. did you watch the game? that post right there would lead me to believe you didnt.. as ingtar points out below.. drew, 8-7 pass/run.. AVP 2-5!!... then you say that with travis, who they are trying to evaluate, that looked balanced when that was by far the least balanced.. rofl.. how many beers did you have.

2. i am wondering how you missed his 2 catches too. one of them was just seconds before we scored a td with Gary.. again.. were you watching?

3. it is obvious that you dont like adams.. but to pull out numbers out of your a$$, like 6ypc is pretty lame.. basically.. read ingtars post.. oh no.. sam got knocked down one play.. the sky is falling.. i guess seau getting smoked by pittman the other night is easier to excuse.. we will just say he was picked ;)

4. after reading your review of the game.. i have come to the conclusion that you a) arent a good evaluator.. not surprising, as you must have had your fish glasses on, b) where drunk.. or c) just took the opportunity to post some junk to start a battle of words.. either way, dont worry.. your post didnt "give up too many details."


Originally posted by Ingtar33

You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.

Now a quick point.
With Denney, Schobel, Williams, Adams out there, J.Lewis averaged 2.5 ypc... explain to me how the middle of our D looked soft, when 10 of his yards came on 2 runs at the DEs (4 more runs for 6 yards the rest of the way)?




:snicker: good to have you back bud.. you pretty much blew up his whole post.. just thought i would help..welcome back.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


1. As well, I don't think KG likes Travis Brown, so even if he does step up his play, I'm not sure his future here looks good. KG was giving him a first class tongue lashing on the sidelines for several minutes after one drive.




2. On 1., MD and I watched Adams closely, and I'm gonna say it straight up!

If last nights game was the indication, Adams ain't much better than what we had last year.

He played very upright and seemingly off balance. He got pushed around by guys much smaller than him. He was extremely slow to the gaps if he ever got there at all!!!

If there was one player that I was highly unimpressed with it was Adams and quite frankly, if that's all we're gonna get outta him, first of all, perhaps we should have drafted William Joseph, but second of all, other than name or lack of another DT, :rolleyes:, just like last year, he wouldn't even necessarily win the starting job.

I'll assume that weight and/or conditioning were factors and see what he does in the next couple of preseason games, but he didn't look anything other than very average if even that. He looks like a slob who can't play football! He had no power whatsoever!

1. ahhh.. i knew there was going to be some excuse thrown in there for tb.. funny how you will go on to say "poor tb.. kg doesnt like him..." iam surprised that you didnt go on to accuse kg of calling bad plays intentionally?

I was screaming at TB too.. he was throwing passes in the dirt and behind receivers.. he was horrible... he made no plays with his "mobility" and took 3 sacks from ONE 3rd string player on the 3rd string defense.. and he had his chance to play with some starting talent to.. i remember specifically one pass he hit reeds feet with.

2. :rolleyes: OH MY GOD.. i cant believe you took the opportunity to plug William Joseph again!! :rolleyes: what a joke.. i am surprised you didnt mention ej henderson too..

in closing..

Travis Brown FOR STARTER! :sick:

[WG]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
The Bills D
-1st team pass rush was non-existent (outside of some good pressure form Schobel a few times), and Ryan Denney looked as bad as he did last year.

-pass rush improved as the night wore on, showing that we have sort of a parity throughout the line, with the falloff from the backups to the starters not being all that big. Good depth no stars... McKenzie looked fabulous rushing form the DT position, and Kelsey looked better than Denney against the run and pass. Jones looked sluggish.

Now a quick point.
With Denney, Schobel, Williams, Adams out there, J.Lewis averaged 2.5 ypc... explain to me how the middle of our D looked soft, when 10 of his yards came on 2 runs at the DEs (4 more runs for 6 yards the rest of the way)?

Very good points and observations Ing!!!

I do have to take serious issue w/ you on Denney however, and given that it's coming from me, one who was ready to cut Denney following last season, it should render some credibility.

Denney actually played very well given his poor play from last year. I was literally shocked. I'm still thinking it was someone else in his uni. I'm so shocked, I can't wait for the next game to see if he plays that well again. He's no Julius Peppers, but if yesterday's play was anything, I can see him starting given our lack of quality at DE.

Jones was just nothin'! Irons the same. Kelsay never beat his man on the outside. Never! All I could think of on him was the knock in his scouting reports, "Consistently gets beat by superior competition!" Well, I'm not even sure that by the time he went in he was facing starting competition, but he wasn't good. For a rookie, first game, I'd say he didn't play like crap. But he showed absolutely no indications that he's gonna be anything special by a long shot. Speed was non-existent for all intents and purposes.

As to the interior line, I cannot explain why the Ravens only averaged ~ 3 YPC, but I can tell you that it wasn't b/c of Adams. Adams was consistently tied up by one man and rendered useless and even pushed back and around. For a DT of his size and reputation, if the pure shame of last night's performance against his old team isn't enough to motivate him to do something to get his big arse in gear and condition himself and improve his level of play, then he's finished in the NFL as a "factor" on the DL.

He didn't make a single tackle, assist, or even come close. As to pentration, he was lucky to hold the line at the point of attack. He was terrible based on what I saw. MD and I were specifically watching him and him alone for numerous plays and I'm tellin' ya, completely unimpressive to the point that if I had to decide today, Edwards would start! It was that bad.

Williams made all the tackles on runs UTM. Adams did nothing.

[Tatonka]

sometimes i think you disagree just to do so.

[cordog]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
I love decisive statements like " if you were balance in runs/Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced."

when the stats were thus...
Passing: 31
Running: 28

with Bledsoe:
8 passes
7 runs

With VanPelt
2 passes
5 runs

with Brown
21 passes
16 runs

You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.

About the Bills O-line
-pass blocking was perfect until the 3rd stringers got in
-The first team run blocking was not good, not bad but definitely not good, especially from Teague and Sullivan.

The Bills D
-1st team pass rush was non-existent (outside of some good pressure form Schobel a few times), and Ryan Denney looked as bad as he did last year.
-Coy Wire's going to be a player
-the LB corps looked good, from top to bottom, with the first unit guys all over the field, and the second and third teamers looking good.
-good job by the DBs
-pass rush improved as the night wore on, showing that we have sort of a parity throughout the line, with the falloff from the backups to the starters not being all that big. Good depth no stars... McKenzie looked fabulous rushing form the DT position, and Kelsey looked better than Denney against the run and pass. Jones looked sluggish.
-The first team D allowed a 2.5ypc average... a VAST improvement over last year, with the only runs of note coming AT Denney, and one 4 yarder where Lewis got hit on the LoS by Schobel and fell forward for 4 yards.

Now a quick point.
With Denney, Schobel, Williams, Adams out there, J.Lewis averaged 2.5 ypc... explain to me how the middle of our D looked soft, when 10 of his yards came on 2 runs at the DEs (4 more runs for 6 yards the rest of the way)?

The only thing that frightened me was our Kick Coverage, and lack of Pass Rush form the 1st stringers.

Thank you ING for the REAL story

[WG]

Originally posted by colin


You misspelled 'from', so this post is worthless.

LMAO colin...!!

[WG]

Originally posted by Tatonka
3. it is obvious that you dont like adams.. but to pull out numbers out of your a$$, like 6ypc is pretty lame.. basically.. read ingtars post.. oh no.. sam got knocked down one play.. the sky is falling.. i guess seau getting smoked by pittman the other night is easier to excuse.. we will just say he was picked ;)

I can't speak for MD's #s T, or his assessments. But I will say openly that I was big on Adams and praised his signing. But what I personally saw yesterday from near midfield 20 some rows up, Adams BLEW! He was flat out awful. Really.

I'll write it off as first PS game, lack of conditioning, and general slobdom, but that's gonna have to change awfully quickly for us to justify starting him. He would have gotten knocked on his ass by some of the OLs that we're gonna face this year if he plays like that against them.

[Dozerdog]

I'll take a 2.5 yard average vs the #1 offense any day. Definatly an improvement.

[WG]

Originally posted by Tatonka


1. ahhh.. i knew there was going to be some excuse thrown in there for tb.. funny how you will go on to say "poor tb.. kg doesnt like him..." iam surprised that you didnt go on to accuse kg of calling bad plays intentionally?

I was screaming at TB too.. he was throwing passes in the dirt and behind receivers.. he was horrible... he made no plays with his "mobility" and took 3 sacks from ONE 3rd string player on the 3rd string defense.. and he had his chance to play with some starting talent to.. i remember specifically one pass he hit reeds feet with.

2. :rolleyes: OH MY GOD.. i cant believe you took the opportunity to plug William Joseph again!! :rolleyes: what a joke.. i am surprised you didnt mention ej henderson too..

in closing..

Travis Brown FOR STARTER! :sick:

Excuses? Where? I didn't think Brown played well by any stretch. He made some awful throws. He made a few good ones too. If there is an excuse, I think he should get an opp w/ the first team for a go 'round however.

The only thing is that the types of mistakes that he's making really have little to do w/ which team he's playing with. He's throwing in the dirt often. Not good. Heck, if anything, I'm ready to start shopping for some QBs! 2 or 3 of them!

No excuses here. If you meant the Gilbride thing, I just thought Gilbride was being overly harsh w/ him on the sidelines. Any other coach and I would not even bring it up! But if anyone should be spoken to like that, it's Gilbride himself!

In fact, if I had a preemptory cut that I could cut any player/coach on this team right now, there wouldn't even be a decision for me!

I'd toss Gilbride by the ears!!! The man's a fool.

[Dozerdog]

When you say he looked "awful"

what does that mean? What are you basing it on? Are you looking at how many blockers he eats up? Are you looking at the OL's penatration? Did Jamal Lewis run up the middle through any gaping holes where our DT should have been?

What was wrong, specificaly, about his technique?


Or maybe Tim Krumrie just doesn't like him, and called plays that would make him look bad:rolleyes: ( ala KG)

[Dozerdog]

I guess a $40 ticket makes ya an expert

[WG]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
I'll take a 2.5 yard average vs the #1 offense any day. Definatly an improvement.

So will I. But I'm tellin' ya, it had little to do w/ Adams! He wasn't anything close to what he used to be. LBs played GREAT in run support! Spikes played well. Stevenson, I think it was him, later on played well.

As to Denney, I watched him a lot. I thought he played very well.

[WG]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
When you say he looked "awful"

what does that mean? What are you basing it on? Are you looking at how many blockers he eats up? Are you looking at the OL's penatration? Did Jamal Lewis run up the middle through any gaping holes where our DT should have been?

What was wrong, specificaly, about his technique?


Or maybe Tim Krumrie just doesn't like him, and called plays that would make him look bad:rolleyes: ( ala KG)

How come PW made all the interior DL tackles then?

And besides, watching it at home makes one "more of an expert!" ??

I'm tellin' ya, I sat w/ about 10 Bills fans, and none of us were impressed w/ Adams.

As to "eating up blockers", I have to laugh! He was NEVER double teamed and was constantly being either totally contained or even pushed back or to the ground by one man.

If you or anyone else thinks that's good, it's no wonder we were hurtin' at DL last year. Go watch the tape. I came into this game looking for only a couple of things and I specifically watched them.

First, Adams
Second, the "other DE position starting", Denney in this case
Third, balance on the O
Fourth, Spikes

So I spent most of my game watching Adams and Denney on D while the D was on the field.

If you think Adams played well, point out the play and time on the tape. I'll go revisit. I just didn't see it. I saw him on the ground twice. I saw him actually get pushed backwards a couple of times. That shouldn't happen w/ a DT like Adams who weighs more than anyone else on the team.

[WG]

And BTW, just b/c you find a good play or two, doesn't mean that he's good. For all the hype, for his contract, he needs to do a little bit more than show up every 3rd or 4th play. I'm not even sure he did that.

Again, I'll write it off to lack of conditioning. But as well, if you can find more than a spot or two on the tape where he actually "met the high expectations", including my own, of Bills fans, then I'm all ears!

[WG]

Originally posted by Tatonka
sometimes i think you disagree just to do so.
Sometimes T. But not this time.


Originally posted by Tatonka
:rolleyes: OH MY GOD.. i cant believe you took the opportunity to plug William Joseph again!! :rolleyes: what a joke.. i am surprised you didnt mention ej henderson too..

in closing..

Travis Brown FOR STARTER! :sick:

Don't know where you got the "I support TB" stuff from anything that I posted. Sometimes I think you don't read what I post and assume prior positions.

As to Joseph, you may be ruing that "non-decision" as well if we aren't much better than last season on the DL.

[Billz_fan]

heheh
Things certainly have livened up around here after the first preseson game :popcorn:

Some people showed well last night, others showed poorly. Next game it may be completely different. Thats why they play preseason games.

You can't judge anyone, not even Travis Brown after one night. It's bad enough the coaches only have about 4 live games to judge a player in, and thats under limited playing time.

I know it makes for something to talk about around here but can we wait untill preseason is over before we begin the lynchings ?

[Tatonka]

if TB cant beat a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th string defense.. why should he get to play against a 1st team?

he had MANY starters in there when he came in right after AVP sat down in the 2nd... and he consistently made poor throws. .

[HenryRules]

I don't have the game on tape, so I can't name any specific plays ... but I do know that I hardly ever, if at all, saw a C or G take on Fletcher beyond the line of scrimmage. To me, that indicates that the DT's did their job.

[cordog]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I don't have the game on tape, so I can't name any specific plays ... but I do know that I hardly ever, if at all, saw a C or G take on Fletcher beyond the line of scrimmage. To me, that indicates that the DT's did their job.

very good point Henry

[Ingtar33]

Fletcher, Spikes and Posey were basically untouched the plays they were in their. Do not forget the Ravens 1st team "ran" at the Bills from rather heavy formations (2TEs AND a FB), and rarely got anywhere. I was impressed with how much faster our LBers looked...

As to Adams, he didn’t look great, but he was EATING up the center and guard on nearly every play… as a result Pat Williams dominated… I mean Williams looked good last year, even lead the league in tackles for DLmen, and that was when he was drawing double teams. Last night we saw what will happen when teams cannot double team him, he is an absolute monster.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN
I was at the game, if you were balance in runs\Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced.





You may have been at the game but you must not have been watching it very closely. When Drew and AVP were in is when the play calling was balanced. When Brown came in is when we started throwing a lot more and I think that was only because they wanted to see how he would do.

[cordog]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
Fletcher, Spikes and Posey were basically untouched the plays they were in their. Do not forget the Ravens 1st team "ran" at the Bills from rather heavy formations (2TEs AND a FB), and rarely got anywhere. I was impressed with how much faster our LBers looked...

As to Adams, he didn’t look great, but he was EATING up the center and guard on nearly every play… as a result Pat Williams dominated… I mean Williams looked good last year, even lead the league in tackles for DLmen, and that was when he was drawing double teams. Last night we saw what will happen when teams cannot double team him, he is an absolute monster.

I think ill trust INGs observations over wys and md

[WG]

As you wish Cordog!


Originally posted by HenryRules
I don't have the game on tape, so I can't name any specific plays ... but I do know that I hardly ever, if at all, saw a C or G take on Fletcher beyond the line of scrimmage. To me, that indicates that the DT's did their job.

Perhaps it's a simple matter of expectations HR.

If all you wanted is a DT who meets his man, and usually only one if yesterday was the judge, at the LOS/point-of-attack, and makes neither gain nor loss there with little-to-no lateral movement, then I suppose he did nothing wrong although he did get lain down once and close to a second!

Personally, I was expecting a little more out of Adams. As Ing says below, Williams was doin' a lot of things, that quite frankly Adams simply didn't do. Our DTs last year weren't getting blown off the LoS. They simply weren't able to pick the gaps where the runners were coming. Well, if you review Adams play, there was precious little to indicate that Adams is nothing more than a one-gap tackle w/ not nearly the power he should possess for a man of his size/weight. As I mentioned before, he played like this last year too. But my expectations for him here were higher in that I figured he wasn't good last year due largely to motivation issues.

I have no idea what his deal is now, but he'd better correct it, and soon or he won't be worth whatever money we are paying him.


Originally posted by Ingtar33
Fletcher, Spikes and Posey were basically untouched the plays they were in their. Do not forget the Ravens 1st team "ran" at the Bills from rather heavy formations (2TEs AND a FB), and rarely got anywhere. I was impressed with how much faster our LBers looked...

As to Adams, he didn’t look great, but he was EATING up the center and guard on nearly every play… as a result Pat Williams dominated… I mean Williams looked good last year, even lead the league in tackles for DLmen, and that was when he was drawing double teams. Last night we saw what will happen when teams cannot double team him, he is an absolute monster.

Points well taken Ing!!! Williams did dominate as usual. Playing next to Adams in contrast should earn him a PB berth this year! Nevertheless, while Adams may have tied up the Center and Guard on many plays, I didn't observe many where he controlled them. To me, it was more of a man-to-man tie-up. I didn't see him tie both up simultaneously in any of the plays that I watched him personally. But there was absolutely no penetration or E-W mobility. Given that, I simply didn't a marked improvement over last season's play at that spot.

We can't gauge everything on the Raven's rushing game for that first most of a Q. If you recall, Denney and Schobel contained the runs from the ends relatively well too and allowed the LBs to focus on the middle on those plays. Few, if even one, rushing play was stopped for a loss so they did gain yards on them. I credit that more to the very vanilla UTM types of runs that Baltimore was running along w/ the addition of Spikes and improved overall play of the LBs who were able to come up and stop them RBs from getting further.

So while we can try to give a good chunk of the credit to Adams, I think a lot of it should go to the DEs. Schobel, Williams (2), Clements, Winfield (2), Fletcher and Wire made the tackles on the RBs in the first two series. That isn't indicative to me that Adams was doing much of anything given that most of those runs were between the Ts. All but 1 if I'm not mistaken and my notes don't lie. But as you can plainly see, the DBs were in on 4 of those tackles and a LB (Fletcher) in on another. Only PW and Schobel, same as last season, were credited w/ much of anything. I think we can agree that this wasn't all simply b/c of "Adams' indirect contributions."

[justasportsfan]

Adams doesn't have to do anything. Hell he could stand at the LOS and have a bigmac meal (supersized )as long as he is double teamed and free's up the lb'ers and Pat.

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
Fletcher, Spikes and Posey were basically untouched the plays they were in their. Do not forget the Ravens 1st team "ran" at the Bills from rather heavy formations (2TEs AND a FB), and rarely got anywhere. I was impressed with how much faster our LBers looked...

As to Adams, he didn’t look great, but he was EATING up the center and guard on nearly every play… as a result Pat Williams dominated… I mean Williams looked good last year, even lead the league in tackles for DLmen, and that was when he was drawing double teams. Last night we saw what will happen when teams cannot double team him, he is an absolute monster.

If that is the case then they all did their job. I have no problem with this at all.

[ryguy8161]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Adams doesn't have to do anything. Hell he could stand at the LOS and have a bigmac meal (supersized )as long as he is double teamed and free's up the lb'ers and Pat.

LOL!:lol: :clap:

[WG]

OK. Let's pay particular attention to Adams in the next game then.

I'll watch mostly him on D. Tape the game so that we have no excuses. He may improve between now and then, but I can't imagine it's gonna be by all that much.

I'll issue my critique w/ Qs and times associated. We'll see for sure! So everyone get your VCRs in shape! ;)

And that isn't necessarily so Eb! It also isn't necessarily so that only Adams can do that. If all we need is a DT to "tie up a single OL man", then I'm sure we have others who can do that. Edwards did more than that when he was in. We don't need to pay the kind of money we're paying Adams for that, and the bonus he'll get for PT/#s of plays.

[WG]

I'm sorry to see that so many of you fellow Bills fans were satisfied w/ what Adams offered. I have much higher expectations for a $2M/yr. DT w/ incentives.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
OK. Let's pay particular attention to Adams in the next game then.



Make sure you pay particular attention to how his presence affects the players around him. Like we sais if other teams double team him and free's up Pat and the rest than he's doing fine.
I'm sorry to see that so many of you fellow Bills fans were satisfied w/ what Adams offered. I have much higher expectations for a $2M/yr. DT w/ incentives. Nope, I'm not satisfied but I'm not disappointed either. 2.5 ypc isn't that bad.

[Tatonka]

adams isnt making 2.5 mill a year, i dont think.. eb correct me if i am wrong..

but if he doesnt meet his incentives, he makes very little right?

[BillsMan80]

Ok Wys, we'll all have no excuses next week. The game is on ESPN so anyone who has cable should be able to see the game. Then we'll all come back and report what we saw.

[WG]

Cool!

ESPN nationwide...

:clap:

:homer: WOOHOO!!!

Lucky you guys! I'll be sitting in front of the tube w/ my laptop.

[MDFINFAN]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
I love decisive statements like " if you were balance in runs/Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced."

when the stats were thus...
Passing: 31
Running: 28

with Bledsoe:
8 passes
7 runs

With VanPelt
2 passes
5 runs

with Brown
21 passes
16 runs

You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.



I geneally don't reply to people who call me a name, since I've never called you one. but being at the game, The feel was more like you passed more. I did not do a play by play and stated I would let the other posters give details. You will note other thought you pass a lot too. That's just the way the game seem to go..I thought it was funny, because I remember asking Wys, why weren't you guys trying to run more, because I thought you were trying to be balanced. I thought the answer was because TH wasn't there. And if you can't comment better than Idiot filth, maybe you shouldn't post. That kind of thing detracts from the quality of the board. I was trying to relay what I saw as best I could without a stat sheet in front of me. Note I said it had to happen with T. Brown because I could tell they were running more with him in there. With Drew, it seem he was in the short guy more. But in the future, I ask that you reply with a question put in a asking way than shoot your mouth from safely behind your computer.

[Tatonka]

md.. ingtars point was that you were completely off in your analysis..

he just said it in the wrong way..

you said it looked like they passed more with bledsoe and avp.. when in fact that was not true at all..

and you said that they ran more with TB, which was also not correct at all.

[eyedog]

I can't believe some of this crap I'm reading. Don't worry about Adams, he'll do his job when it counts. Pro bowl players with Super bowl rings don't get real motivated for preseason games. He's a space eater who will command double teams freeing up his teammates. My only concern with him is his stamina. We are only gonna see a very small part of the real defense we will see Sept 7th. I'm expecting a lot of blitzing to put heat on the qb, but you won't see much of it now. The speed up grade on the defense is obvious, but when your replacing Newman and Robinson what do you expect. This defense is going to be good and Lebeau will have his blitz packages ready for game #1.
The only negative I really have was the poor play from Travis Brown. I was expecting more than that. He better pick it up over the next three weeks or he may be the one out of here.

[Tatonka]

excellent post eyedog.

[MDFINFAN]

Originally posted by Tatonka
md.. ingtars point was that you were completely off in your analysis..

he just said it in the wrong way..

you said it looked like they passed more with bledsoe and avp.. when in fact that was not true at all..

and you said that they ran more with TB, which was also not correct at all.

Well it did from the feel of being at the game..I didn't write play by play, so I was recalling from memory...I'm watching it now. Btw, I can't find his numbers no where in terms of how many runs to passes per QB, where did he get that from. I still think Drew threw more, I remember making the comment to Wys. And I've never called any body on this board an idiot, even when I'm smack talkin with them.

[mvb1781]

How did kelsay look last night?

[cordog]

MD, they ran more than they passed with Bledsoe.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by MDFINFAN


Well it did from the feel of being at the game..I didn't write play by play, so I was recalling from memory...I'm watching it now. Btw, I can't find his numbers no where in terms of how many runs to passes per QB, where did he get that from. I still think Drew threw more, I remember making the comment to Wys. And I've never called any body on this board an idiot, even when I'm smack talkin with them.


You got to try a little, MD- the play by play account of the game is available all over - ESPN, NFL.com.....there is a link under our front page story.


BTW...that does require you to actually sit there and add up what's a run and what's a pass. Some of the numbers do go over ten so if I may suggest- remove your socks before attempting- it will get you to 20 at least ...;)

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Ingtar33
I love decisive statements like " if you were balance in runs/Passes, you could have fooled me. Look like last year to me, you won't make me think you were balance, maybe after Brown got in, but while Drew and AVP was in, u weren't balanced."

when the stats were thus...
Passing: 31
Running: 28

with Bledsoe:
8 passes
7 runs

With VanPelt
2 passes
5 runs

with Brown
21 passes
16 runs

You know i've been casually stopping in to peak and its idiot filth like this that has kept me away form posting. Please try not to make equivocal, and idiotic statements like that. It detracts from the quality of the board.


Originally posted by MDFINFAN
I geneally don't reply to people who call me a name, since I've never called you one. but being at the game, The feel was more like you passed more. I did not do a play by play and stated I would let the other posters give details. You will note other thought you pass a lot too. That's just the way the game seem to go..I thought it was funny, because I remember asking Wys, why weren't you guys trying to run more, because I thought you were trying to be balanced. I thought the answer was because TH wasn't there. And if you can't comment better than Idiot filth, maybe you shouldn't post. That kind of thing detracts from the quality of the board. I was trying to relay what I saw as best I could without a stat sheet in front of me. Note I said it had to happen with T. Brown because I could tell they were running more with him in there. With Drew, it seem he was in the short guy more. But in the future, I ask that you reply with a question put in a asking way than shoot your mouth from safely behind your computer.



The rule here is attack the post, not the poster.

Idiotic filth refers to the uninformed dribble that 500 experts with computers come up with.



But since your posts are as stupid as mine, grow a skin and get on with it. ....geeesh!:rolleyes:
Had he called you an idiot personally, we would take action.

[WG]

Originally posted by mvb1781
How did kelsay look last night?

Hey 1781,

I'll tell you how I thought Kelsay looked. I thought he looked like a rookie DE. He came around the ends on pass plays and never came close to beating his man. Sure, I may have missed a play or two, but a couple of us were specifically watching the DEs at that point in the game as there wasn't much else of interest to watch and the game itself I found boring.

I also wasn't impressed w/ Jones. He clearly didn't have very much end speed. Neither did Irons whom I've been big on. Denney, while some complained about him, put pressure on the Ravens QBs, and almost logged an opposite side sack as the QB was running away from his side. He also put pressure on the QB on numerous other plays. It was tough to see how the Ends were v. the run since most of the runs were b/t the Ts.

Things may change, this was quite obviously the first preseason game, so it's worth should be tempered. This week's game @ Tennessee and next week's game v. the Rams will be more important. We'll have been 3 weeks into camp by then and the players should start settling a little bit.

[WG]

Originally posted by eyedog
I can't believe some of this crap I'm reading. Don't worry about Adams, he'll do his job when it counts. Pro bowl players with Super bowl rings don't get real motivated for preseason games. He's a space eater who will command double teams freeing up his teammates. My only concern with him is his stamina. We are only gonna see a very small part of the real defense we will see Sept 7th. I'm expecting a lot of blitzing to put heat on the qb, but you won't see much of it now. The speed up grade on the defense is obvious, but when your replacing Newman and Robinson what do you expect. This defense is going to be good and Lebeau will have his blitz packages ready for game #1.
The only negative I really have was the poor play from Travis Brown. I was expecting more than that. He better pick it up over the next three weeks or he may be the one out of here.

I sure hope so dog! In fact, I was cleaning some stuff out from my old office this afternoon and ran across the Oakland game tape last year. I watched it for several reasons. One was to see if Drew's INTs had been "bad throws" as I had remembered, or the WR's faults as many have said. Well, all three were bad throws, and in fact, he's lucky he didn't have another 3 or 4 INTs as several bounced in and out of defenders hands. Even the commentators said that they were clearly his fault and not the WRs or anyone elses. In fact, the one to Buchanon for a TD, no one was w/in 10 yards of him when he made the INT. Buchanon that is.

The other reason was to watch Adams. Quite frankly, just as in other games last year, I didn't see all that much outta him. Yesterday's game merely reinforced the notion in my mind, that Adams' best days are long gone. This is MO dog, so take it for what you think it's worth. But yesterday, Adams was a one-on-one tie-up guy. If that's what we got him for, then great. But unless he improves, and he may very well, and I sure hope he does, but unless he does, that's all he's gonna be again this year.

As to him "doing the job when it counts", we'll see. But IMO he didn't do much that Edwards or many other DTs couldn't have done, if anything at all. In fact, based on yesterday's game only, I'd start Edwards on opening day, again, based on yesterday's game only. Edwards can do the same on the line and also can move fast enough to catch RBs blowing by him and to rush the passer, which Adams clearly can't do as he seemed ill-equipped to move more than a sidestep.

As him being a "space eater who commands double teams," I don't know what everyone else was watching, but he didn't often command a double team yesterday. He also got knocked flat on his butt on one play backwards by a lineman. Not two, but one.

So we'll see. Right now I sense quite a bit of excitement that he will be playing as he did when he was on Baltimore. I can tell you one thing for sure, that won't be the case. He's got a world of "stepping up to do" to achieve that, and he didn't play that way last year, so I'm not expecting it this year.

I agree w/ you on the Pro Bowl players not going all out for these games. IMO they're more for evaluating talent and getting the wrinkles out before the season so our first units don't start the season completely cold. Still, individual talent can be evaluated, especially for players not necessarily on the first unit, or more importantly, on the team.

In that regard, Adams played under. Jones, Irons, didn't do much or show much. I didn't see a lot of impact from Posey although I don't really remember seeing him at all and wasn't looking for him. Spikes was in on a lot of plays. Williams was a beast! Schobel looked somewhat improved from last year as well. A little faster perhaps. IMO the fact that we had at least something in every front 7 spot made the clear difference from last season.

On Brown, not sure if he'll make the team or not, but I, being one who has wanted to see some more out of him before coming to a conclusion, am a step closer to not caring whether he gets cut or not. But from what everyone is saying, Johnson doesn't appear to be worth keeping, so Brown, even if he plays like that for the other PS games, will likely make the team by default.

But again, if Adams doesn't improve over Saturday, expect Edwards to challenge him for the starting spot! IDK what Adams has to do to "improve", lose weight, condition himself, weights, whatever, but it was clear to me that he's only a shell of what he used to be using that game as an indicator. He's also got playing time incentives, which I'm not sure it's worth seeing to that he gets the opportunity to earn them and hit our cap up for more.

We'll see though.

[mvb1781]

thanks for the info WYS

[WG]

Cordially...