kgun's "Where do we go?"....Running back

[YardRat]

Re-sign Singletary?
Rookie draft pick?
Free agent?
Trade?

[sukie]

Re-sign Singletary?
Rookie draft pick?
Free agent?
Trade?
UDFA at this point. Cook and Hines plus backups. Singles too costly. As soon as possible… part ways with Hines and deal with RB purely on rookie deals. Rinse repeat.

[Mace]

Bye to Singletary.

Cook and Hines are weapons, get them in space, use them as RB's for speed.

Draft DeWayne McBride from UAB in the middle rounds as a contact runner and for short yardage.

The Bills need to no longer use Josh Allen as their fullback or this will end poorly on a cheesy running play.

[sukie]

Bye to Singletary.

Cook and Hines are weapons, get them in space, use them as RB's for speed.

Draft DeWayne McBride from UAB in the middle rounds as a contact runner and for short yardage.

The Bills need to no longer use Josh Allen as their fullback or this will end poorly on a cheesy running play.
I kinda like the kid outa Texas. Bijon Robinson. 6 ft 220. Fast and powerful. Like I said when dead cap doesn’t sting so much… move on from Hines. He’s a weapon (supposedly) but money will always be needed elsewhere

[Mace]

I kinda like the kid outa Texas. Bijon Robinson. 6 ft 220. Fast and powerful. Like I said when dead cap doesn’t sting so much… move on from Hines. He’s a weapon (supposedly) but money will always be needed elsewhere

Oh, absolutely. Thing is I sure hope they grab a guard and center with their first two picks and he'll be gone by then. The guards and centers fall off in quality pretty quick if you want one you might need to use soon.

[DraftBoy]

Curious to see if they try and kick the tires on Tony Pollard coming off an injury on a discount deal.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I know I’m ruining this thread but I don’t care if 1991 Thurman Thomas combined with pre murdering 1973 oj and 2000 Marshall Faulk come out of the backfield if we don’t fix the fat men up front and actually USE the running game instead of throwing bombs on 3rd and one

[sukie]

Curious to see if they try and kick the tires on Tony Pollard coming off an injury on a discount deal.
Discount less than a rookie deal? Doubt it.


fat guys first… I agree.

[kgun12]

Bye to Singletary.

Cook and Hines are weapons, get them in space, use them as RB's for speed.

Draft DeWayne McBride from UAB in the middle rounds as a contact runner and for short yardage.

The Bills need to no longer use Josh Allen as their fullback or this will end poorly on a cheesy running play.

I like this but only if the restructure Hines.

Then again unless Dorsey calls more running plays it just doesn’t matter who’s in the backfield.

[YardRat]

I'm a little bit smitten with Kenny McIntosh from Georgia atm, but apparently he needs work on his pass protection.

[Saratoga Slim]

I kinda like the kid outa Texas. Bijon Robinson. 6 ft 220. Fast and powerful. Like I said when dead cap doesn’t sting so much… move on from Hines. He’s a weapon (supposedly) but money will always be needed elsewhere

That'd be a hard call. On the one hand, we used a 2nd on a RB last season and Cook showed some promise. If we draft a 1st round RB, I'm not sure how we split the 15 carries a game that we tend to give to RBs. Drafting Bijan Robinson would almost require us to make a shift on offense towards a bigger running game. If we didn't, it would be a wasted pick at a position where we can almost surely find someone to complement Cook later in the drafy.

That said, Robinson is by all accounts a generational talent at running back. It might be hard to pass on a budding superstar if he fell to the end of the first round. Use him right, and it might take some pressure off Josh.

[notacon]

I wanted the Bills to draft a RB the past two years.....Najee Harris in 2021, and Breece Hall in 2022.


They would have had to move up in 2021 to grab Harris, and in hindsight, it would have been smart to do so. This would be a much better team with Harris at RB.

They could have gotten Breece Hall last year by moving back a few slots in the first round. He got injured early, but when he did play, he is obviously going to be an impact player.

Elam was a so-so pick. He STILL has not locked down the #2 CB position. There were a plethora of CB selected AFTER Elam that, not only started on other teams but excelled.....much better than Elam.

5th and 7th round CB’s like Tariq Woolen and Jaylen Watson come to mind.

There are some mock drafts that have Bijan Robinson dropping to the Bills at #27. If he is there at #27, they would be foolish to pass. They should even consider moving up to get him.

The Bills have been screwing around with he RB positions for years. Time to step up and spend some draft capital on a potential game changer.

[Woodman]

I know I’m ruining this thread but I don’t care if 1991 Thurman Thomas combined with pre murdering 1973 oj and 2000 Marshall Faulk come out of the backfield if we don’t fix the fat men up front and actually USE the running game instead of throwing bombs on 3rd and one

[sukie]

I wanted the Bills to draft a RB the past two years.....Najee Harris in 2021, and Breece Hall in 2022.


They would have had to move up in 2021 to grab Harris, and in hindsight, it would have been smart to do so. This would be a much better team with Harris at RB.

They could have gotten Breece Hall last year by moving back a few slots in the first round. He got injured early, but when he did play, he is obviously going to be an impact player.

Elam was a so-so pick. He STILL has not locked down the #2 CB position. There were a plethora of CB selected AFTER Elam that, not only started on other teams but excelled.....much better than Elam.

5th and 7th round CB’s like Tariq Woolen and Jaylen Watson come to mind.

There are some mock drafts that have Bijan Robinson dropping to the Bills at #27. If he is there at #27, they would be foolish to pass. They should even consider moving up to get him.

The Bills have been screwing around with he RB positions for years. Time to step up and spend some draft capital on a potential game changer.

Assumption made that this line can run block an that running plays are called.

[Bill Cody]

Re-sign Singletary? NO
Rookie draft pick? YES
Free agent? NO
Trade? NO

[Night Train]

Assumption made that this line can run block an that running plays are called.

Bullseye. In todays game, catching a 5-6 yard swing pass is like a good running play and more frequent. It's there for Allen but he heaves these lower % throws downfield, which miss too often.

Cook is a small, quick pass catcher. Hines has too fat a contract and may have to take a cut or get cut. I'd like to keep him for returns and spot duty somehow.

Getting a 20-25 carry guy just doesn't seem to be something the Bills are interested in, due to the playcalling.. At least up until now. But the OL doesn't seem to get any push for a running game. They have executed some trap blocks to spring Singletary and Cook... but the pound the ball McCoy days are several years in the past, on a .500 team. Dorsey is all about Allen.

[DraftBoy]

I'm a little bit smitten with Kenny McIntosh from Georgia atm, but apparently he needs work on his pass protection.

Not sure he's really the power back I would envision they are looking for. If they need a multi-purpose back I think McIntosh is a good Round 3/4 fit if his pass pro can improve.

That's the one thing you lose in Singletary that will be an underrated miss, his pass protection got so much better over the years.

[Turf]

The way we use and value RB's we simply don't have the cap space to pay him anything significant so I say he's odd man out. With that being said we have Cook, not sure on Hines status, FA or draft. We have let a few running backs leave that I think would have helped us just as much.

[YardRat]

Not sure he's really the power back I would envision they are looking for. If they need a multi-purpose back I think McIntosh is a good Round 3/4 fit if his pass pro can improve.

That's the one thing you lose in Singletary that will be an underrated miss, his pass protection got so much better over the years.

I don't think they have any interest in a power back (like some of us do), they've had 6 years to get one and haven't even tried.

[DraftBoy]

I don't think they have any interest in a power back (like some of us do), they've had 6 years to get one and haven't even tried.

They thought Moss could be that in fairness.

[Forward_Lateral]

Mohamed Ibrahim.

[notacon]

Assumption made that this line can run block an that running plays are called.
They can. The Bills were #7 in rushing yards per game in 2022. Yes, much of the yards are from Allen running the ball.....which is proof that the Bills need a more dynamic RB to take the load.

Singletary is not that guy. I doubt Cook will be a three down RB. Hines may not even survive because of his cap hit, and he’s not a three down back either.

[notacon]

Re-sign Singletary? NO
Rookie draft pick? YES
Free agent? NO
Trade? NO


The way we use and value RB's we simply don't have the cap space to pay him anything significant so I say he's odd man out. With that being said we have Cook, not sure on Hines status, FA or draft. We have let a few running backs leave that I think would have helped us just as much.

In today’s NFL, RB’s are disposable in respect that your draft them, play them (if they are good enough) on their rookie deal, and then part ways.

It’s a churn and burn position. Bill Cody has got it spot on.

The Bills almost assuredly will be drafting a RB this year. It’s just a matter of where and whom. I believe they lost two huge opportunities to draft instant impact offensive weapons when they did not move up to grab Najee Harris and passed on Breece Hall.

James Cook was widely seen as a marginal, third round level talent (at the most)....and the Bills proved that to be true with their TWO trade downs and still got him with the 31st pick of the second round.

Bijan Robinson should be a target for the Bills. Drafting him would be easily the most impactful player they can get in this years draft (as long as he either falls to #27 or the trade to move up to get him is not that steep) and he would transform the offense and help Josh Allen be that much more effective.

[Jeff1220]

I think Motor is a better back than how he looks with this team. He isn't a superlative guy in any one category, but pretty good at most things. That said, he isn't what the Bills need. He would be better served to sign with a team that has a proven run scheme.

If Cook can get better at pass protection, he would easily fit into what it seems the Bills want to do most of the time with their RB.

Hines seems like he's only good for special teams. Idk why they can't seem to utilize his speed well in the outside run or short pass game.

What they need to add is a powerful guy that can get some short yards inside when needed. Hopefully they see an overlooked RB on day two or three (or even a rookie FA) that could come in and grow into a dependable option.

[Mr. Pink]

D'Ernest Johnson. FA out of Cleveland.

There's no way they're going to resign him with Chubb, Felton and recently drafted Jerome Ford.

Johnson didn't really play much last year so he won't command a huge deal on the free agent market.

Give him a short term deal with some incentives.

[TigerJ]

I can't see any set of circumstances that would bring Singletary back. I'm not opposed to drafting a RB. My sleeper pick is Roschon Johnson. He's got size that the Bills have lacked forever, but he also has similar speed to Heims. He came into college as a QB. He could be a massive trick play waiting to happen. The Bills might get him for a fifth or sixth round pick.

[Mad Bomber]

I'm a little bit smitten with Kenny McIntosh from Georgia atm, but apparently he needs work on his pass protection.

We already have a RB from Georgia who needs work on his pass protection 😀

[Night Train]

The Bills seem to want Christian McCaffrey 2.0. with more of an emphasis on pass catching ability. Still, Allen/Dorsey seem to ignore that option more often than not.

Maybe Dorsey will review his rookie year as a OC and change some things, depending on his roster come camp. Must help his QB more.

[Woodman]

D'Ernest Johnson. FA out of Cleveland.

There's no way they're going to resign him with Chubb, Felton and recently drafted Jerome Ford.

Johnson didn't really play much last year so he won't command a huge deal on the free agent market.

Give him a short term deal with some incentives.

very possible.

[Woodman]

I can't see any set of circumstances that would bring Singletary back. I'm not opposed to drafting a RB. My sleeper pick is Roschon Johnson. He's got size that the Bills have lacked forever, but he also has similar speed to Heims. He came into college as a QB. He could be a massive trick play waiting to happen. The Bills might get him for a fifth or sixth round pick.

never heard of him ..... sounds good if you could snag him in the 5th possible 6th.

[TigerJ]

There are also a couple of Zachs to be found in the draft. Zach Charbonnet and Zach Evans both have a good combination of size and speed. Charbonnet is probably a second rounder, but Evans might be around in the fourth round.

[Woodman]

There are also a couple of Zachs to be found in the draft. Zach Charbonnet and Zach Evans both have a good combination of size and speed. Charbonnet is probably a second rounder, but Evans might be around in the fourth round.

Not up to speed on the RB's .... my guess is we will snag one on day 3.

[cookie G]

I still like Motor. But with cap problems, idk.

In recent years, SF found their leading rusher, Elijah Mitchell, then he got hurt.

KC found its leading rusher, Pacheco in the 6th or 7th. Both guys had high top end speed but fell in the draft. These are the kind of guys you look for.

That said, if Tyjae Spears is available in the 3rd or 4th, I give him serious consideration.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rmgnCIclV9U" title="Tyjae Spears || Tulane Green Wave Running Back || 2022 Highlights" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Explosive, but patient when he need to be for blocks to develop.
Can catch out of the backfield or out in a pattern. In addition to around 1600 yards running last last year, had around 250 yards in receptions.
Had over 200 yards against USC in their bowl game and was a huge reason for their come back win.,
Put on a show during Senior Bowl practices. Was probably the best RB there.

But then, Cook is going to be the main back next year, and it might be a draft pick spent elsewhere.

[TigerJ]

Not up to speed on the RB's .... my guess is we will snag one on day 3.
Here's a good spot to check on some of them: Zach Evans Running Back Ole Miss | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com) (https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Zach-Evans-RB-TCU) Just click on the names of any of Draft Buzz's top 10 RBs.
Here is their page on Roschon Johnson: Roschon Johnson Running Back Texas | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com) (https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Roschon-Johnson-RB-Texas)

[Woodman]

Here's a good spot to check on some of them: Zach Evans Running Back Ole Miss | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com) (https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Zach-Evans-RB-TCU) Just click on the names of any of Draft Buzz's top 10 RBs.
Here is their page on Roschon Johnson: Roschon Johnson Running Back Texas | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report (nfldraftbuzz.com) (https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Roschon-Johnson-RB-Texas)

Much appreciated young man. :gobills:

[Night Train]

D'Ernest Johnson. FA out of Cleveland.

There's no way they're going to resign him with Chubb, Felton and recently drafted Jerome Ford.

Johnson didn't really play much last year so he won't command a huge deal on the free agent market.

Give him a short term deal with some incentives.


I still like Motor. But with cap problems, idk.

In recent years, SF found their leading rusher, Elijah Mitchell, then he got hurt.

KC found its leading rusher, Pacheco in the 6th or 7th. Both guys had high top end speed but fell in the draft. These are the kind of guys you look for.

That said, if Tyjae Spears is available in the 3rd or 4th, I give him serious consideration.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rmgnCIclV9U" title="Tyjae Spears || Tulane Green Wave Running Back || 2022 Highlights" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Explosive, but patient when he need to be for blocks to develop.
Can catch out of the backfield or out in a pattern. In addition to around 1600 yards running last last year, had around 250 yards in receptions.
Had over 200 yards against USC in their bowl game and was a huge reason for their come back win.,
Put on a show during Senior Bowl practices. Was probably the best RB there.

But then, Cook is going to be the main back next year, and it might be a draft pick spent elsewhere.



I mentioned Spears earlier after his workouts in the Shrine Bowl. He torched USC and has that sudden burst to hit holes fast and take off.

[Woodman]

Give me a bruiser.

[BLUTO]

I like Robinson too. He could run inside and move the pile.

[Woodman]

D'Ernest Johnson. FA out of Cleveland.

There's no way they're going to resign him with Chubb, Felton and recently drafted Jerome Ford.

Johnson didn't really play much last year so he won't command a huge deal on the free agent market.

Give him a short term deal with some incentives.

I wouldn't mind him one bit.

[TigerJ]

D'Ernest Johnson. FA out of Cleveland.

There's no way they're going to resign him with Chubb, Felton and recently drafted Jerome Ford.

Johnson didn't really play much last year so he won't command a huge deal on the free agent market.

Give him a short term deal with some incentives.

He weighs about the same as Singletary. Dawg Pound Daily (which did urge Cleveland to tender him) said of his pro day, "His Pro Day 40 yard dash time of 4.81 seconds was so slow the staff was ready to go home waiting for him to finish." Frankly, it doesn't sound too me as if he's going to be anything more than a fringe player. I'm hoping for a little more.

[Woodman]

I like Robinson too. He could run inside and move the pile.
Never gonna be there at 27.

[Woodman]

What they need to add is a powerful guy that can get some short yards inside when needed. Hopefully they see an overlooked RB on day two or three (or even a rookie FA) that could come in and grow into a dependable option.

My wish as well.

[kgun12]

I like Robinson too. He could run inside and move the pile.

We used a second last year on Cook, drafting a RB in the first round would say we made a mistake with Cook. This would also mean that we need to trade Hines because if Cook wasn’t the guy, Hines isn’t either.

But let’s not look passed the elephant in the room, the Bills have Josh and if we draft a RB in the first round the entire offense needs to change which can’t happen because this line isn’t built for this.
Here’s the other thing to consider other than the Tampa Bay win over KC, the SB winners win with passing not running. It used to be run and stop the run wins SB’s not anymore, now it’s pass and stop the pass. Who wins the SB MVP, it’s not RB.

[Typ0]

If the Bills select a RB with one of their top picks the cries to blow my head off are going to get louder. It would be the penultimate result of poor planning and just plain neglect then reacting to try and cover up your ineptitude. They don't even use running backs it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit any more if they took one first!

Is a generational talent going to fall to us in the 3rd round? Maybe then consider it. Otherwise ... not wise.

[notacon]

We used a second last year on Cook, drafting a RB in the first round would say we made a mistake with Cook. This would also mean that we need to trade Hines because if Cook wasn’t the guy, Hines isn’t either.

But let’s not look passed the elephant in the room, the Bills have Josh and if we draft a RB in the first round the entire offense needs to change which can’t happen because this line isn’t built for this.
Here’s the other thing to consider other than the Tampa Bay win over KC, the SB winners win with passing not running. It used to be run and stop the run wins SB’s not anymore, now it’s pass and stop the pass. Who wins the SB MVP, it’s not RB.
I do not agree with your premise "We used a second last year on Cook, drafting a RB in the first round would say we made a mistake with Cook”. The Bills traded back twice in the second round and barely spent a 2nd round pick on Cook...#63 overall and the #31st out of 32 in round two.

The disappointment (and mistake) was drafting Zack Moss with he 22nd pick in the third round in 2020. Cook was not drafted to be a three down RB. And I suspect that he is going to be much more heavily involved with the offense for 2023 and going forward.

The way they used Hines last season is what’s baffling as well. I (nor anyone else) has any idea what the plans are for Hines for 2023.

If an extremely valuable talent like Bijan Robinson is available at #27, the Bills would be fools to not consider him. I suspect that he will be long gone before the Bills pick comes up.

Interestingly, Matt Miller of ESPN details “every prospect with a first-round grade" (https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35180722/2023-nfl-draft-every-prospect-first-round-grade-plus-comps-including-top-quarterbacks-edge-rushers-wide-receivers-round-1), and there are only 19 of them. Robinson is the only RB in that group and is graded #5 overall of all prospects.....here is his write up...



Running back (1)

Bijan Robinson (https://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/106312/bijan-robinson), Texas (No. 5)

Comp: Saquon Barkley (https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3929630/saquon-barkley)

Robinson is the total package as a running back prospect. He plays with amazing patience but can also lower his shoulder with a 220-pound frame and create space for himself. Robinson's contact balance and vision in traffic are some of the best I've ever seen. He rushed for 1,580 rushing yards and 18 TDs this season, and he's also a very good receiving threat out of the backfield (314 receiving yards). There are few players more talented than Robinson in this year's class.


This is why some mock drafts have him going to the Bills at #27. Lack of a running game from RB’s is a glaring weakness of the Bills.

Although I appreciate your observation that "Here’s the other thing to consider other than the Tampa Bay win over KC, the SB winners win with passing not running” and RB’s are absolutely a churn and burn position.

But, it was extremely interesting that after the Chiefs lost that SB to Tampa Bay, the draft that took place a few months later, they used their 1st round pick on a RB....Clyde Edwards-Helaire.

Then they struck unexpected gold with their 2022 7th round pick of RB Isaih Pacheco, who was a HUGE asset for the KC offense. He was the #1 in rushing yards in the Super Bowl with 76 on 15 carriers...a 5.1 avg. #1 in rushing yard for Philly was QB Jalen Hurts....70 yards of 15 carries.

As a matter of fact, KC out rushed Philly in the Super Bowl 158 yard to 115. It was Philly’s worst rushing game of the playoffs after gaining 268 yards vs Giants, and 148 vs the 49ers.

The Bills had more than 158 yards rushing in only four of the 18 games they played in 2022. Same for 2021. Only three games in 2020. In the miserable loss to Cincy, the Bengals out rushed the Bills 172 yards to a measly 64.

Yeah....RB’s are probably not going to win MVP or SB MVP, but to ignore the importance of a running game threat, from RB’s, to greatly enhance the passing game is rather short sighted, to say the least.

The time to rely on Josh Allen as a RB has to come to and end.

With the almost assured expectation that Singletary is not going to be on the team next season (it’s hardly ever worth signing a RB to a second contract in today’s NFL), and the cap situation with Hines to be problematic, there is going to be some new faces at RB. It’s just a matter of who.

[Mr. Pink]

Drafting a RB in round 1 with how this league now is, is a colossal and idiotic mistake.

You can get RBs in the draft on Day 3 who are more than capable

[kgun12]

Drafting a RB in round 1 with how this league now is, is a colossal and idiotic mistake.

You can get RBs in the draft on Day 3 who are more than capable

If this staff drafted a RB this year in the 1st or 2nd would show the total incompetence!

[Bill Cody]

One guy I'm monitoring is Damien Harris of NE. He had a big 2021 but was down last year, became the 2nd back to Stevenson and he was hurt.

If NE decides to part ways (they drafted 2 backs last year) and his contract demands are reasonable that's a downhill guy that is great in short yardage, goal line and can close out games, something that we are missing. Still has some tread left on the tires and would be a perfect thunder and lightning match with Cook. When the Bills play elite teams it would be great if we had the ability to play keep away from elite QB's when needed.

[Woodman]

Damien Harris would look great in a Bills uniform.

[notacon]

Drafting a RB in round 1 with how this league now is, is a colossal and idiotic mistake.

You can get RBs in the draft on Day 3 who are more than capable


If this staff drafted a RB this year in the 1st or 2nd would show the total incompetence!

Nonsense.

Total nonsense.

Not that I expect the Bills to draft a RB in the 1st (or even 2nd) round, but if Robinson is available at #27, it would be “total incompetence” AND "a colossal and idiotic mistake” to not consider grabbing him.

Rejecting, out of hand, drafting ANY RB in the 1st (or 2nd) round is dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Mr. Pink]

Nonsense.

Total nonsense.

Not that I expect the Bills to draft a RB in the 1st (or even 2nd) round, but if Robinson is available at #27, it would be “total incompetence” AND "a colossal and idiotic mistake” to not consider grabbing him.

Rejecting, out of hand, drafting ANY RB in the 1st (or 2nd) round is dumb, dumb, dumb.

It's a passing league and you're going to waste first round capital on a position that only situationally matters?

We're a team who barely runs the football. We barely throw the ball to RBs in our offense.

Yet you're good with wasting a first round pick on a guy who will barely get the ball? Especially a year after we already drafted a RB.

Asinine and the reason why none of your posts can be taken seriously when it comes to football.

[notacon]

It's a passing league and you're going to waste first round capital on a position that only situationally matters?

We're a team who barely runs the football. We barely throw the ball to RBs in our offense.

Yet you're good with wasting a first round pick on a guy who will barely get the ball? Especially a year after we already drafted a RB.

Asinine and the reason why none of your posts can be taken seriously when it comes to football.
What’s “asinine” is saying "It's a passing league and you're going to waste first round capital on a position that only situationally matters? “.

No. The running game and RB’s is NOT "a position that only situationally matters”. Jesus. An effective and dynamic passing game DEPENDS on an effective running game that poses a threat. It’s proven every year, year and year out.

The Bills have used JOSH ALLEN as that running threat. And that is 100% unsustainable.

The one who’s "none of your posts can be taken seriously when it comes to football.” is YOU.

[sukie]

What’s “asinine” is saying "It's a passing league and you're going to waste first round capital on a position that only situationally matters? “.

No. The running game and RB’s is NOT "a position that only situationally matters”. Jesus. An effective and dynamic passing game DEPENDS on an effective running game that poses a threat. It’s proven every year, year and year out.

The Bills have used JOSH ALLEN as that running threat. And that is 100% unsustainable.

The one who’s "none of your posts can be taken seriously when it comes to football.” is YOU.




Nottie. Efficient running game and a running game featuring a Barkley or a Henry are 2 different things.

yes years ago when we were younger men, there was a dominance of RBs like Priest Holmes , LaDainian , Edgerrin etc.

the game is more pass friendly and pass happy. You don’t need a blue chip first rounder. The giant RB contracts are a rarity.

[kgun12]

In the last 25 years the last regular season RB MVP was A. Peterson in 2112. There have only been 4 RB MVP’s in that time the other 21 were QB’s!

The last SB MVP was all the way back in 1998, T. Davis!

Yeah we need a RB in the first round, silly!

[Woodman]

If this staff drafted a RB this year in the 1st or 2nd would show the total incompetence!

Trenches trenches trenches!!!

[notacon]

Nottie. Efficient running game and a running game featuring a Barkley or a Henry are 2 different things.

yes years ago when we were younger men, there was a dominance of RBs like Priest Holmes , LaDainian , Edgerrin etc.

the game is more pass friendly and pass happy. You don’t need a blue chip first rounder. The giant RB contracts are a rarity.


In the last 25 years the last regular season RB MVP was A. Peterson in 2112. There have only been 4 RB MVP’s in that time the other 21 were QB’s!

The last SB MVP was all the way back in 1998, T. Davis!

Yeah we need a RB in the first round, silly!

Jesus. Yes, there is no doubt that the importance of RB has diminished over the years, and no, we will probably not see another RB as MVP again.

SO WHAT???

And, yes, the passing game is THE emphasis of success in the NFL and the rules have been changed to ensure that.

BUT, that does not mean in any way, shape or form that the running game is not critical to winning and especially the success of the passing game. To deny this reality is....well....not very realistic.

The running game of the Buffalo Bills relies WAY too much on Josh Allen. That has to slow down. Allen (762) was #3 among QB’s rushing yards last season, behind only Fields (1,143) and Jackson (764 in only 12 games). Allen was out gained our #1 RB, Singletary, by only 57 yards.

This is not a desirable long term (or short term) or winning strategy.

sukie does make a great point that "Efficient running game and a running game featuring a Barkley or a Henry are 2 different things”....and by everything I have read, Bijan Robinson is THAT level of RB talent.

In earlier years, he would be a no brainer top 5 pick. In 2023, he will probably be a first round pick, it’s just a matter of where. My premise is that IF a top quality, blue chip, consensus top 5 talent....falls to #27 the Bills would be idiots to reject picking him out of hand.

Look, much of what determines the first round pick for a team like the Bills, a contender and playoff team, is what falls to them in the later part of the 1st round. Last year, the Bills had to move up a couple of spots to grab the guy THEY wanted, and had graded high enough to do so.

What is extremely interesting is the way mock drafts (among mostly nationally recognized professional media writers and analysts....not the amateur sites) predict as the position the Bills will probably favor.

Does not mean making the actual player is important, but the position. NFL.com is kind enough to publish periodic “Mock Draft Watch” and numbers them throughout the pre-draft season.

They are on “2023 Mock Draft Watch 2.0 (https://www.buffalobills.com/news/2023-mock-draft-watch-2-0)” for the Bills.

Eight different positions are mocked for the Bills at #27 (with two mocked trade ups). Here are the positions ranked by how many....

RB - 9 (7 of these were Bijan Robinson, two for Jahmyr Gibbs, Alabama)
S - 6
OG - 6
WR - 5
OT - 4
DT - 1
C - 1
TE - 1

Seems like the idea that the Bills “need a RB in the first round” is NOT “silly”

The last one of these in 2022.....”2022 Mock Draft Watch 5.0 (https://www.buffalobills.com/news/2022-mock-draft-watch-5-0)” had this break down....

CB - 11
OG - 5
WR - 3
RB - 1
S - 1

Also of interest is to see how these change as the draft gets closer. Again, in 2022....the "2022 Mock Draft Watch 4.0 (https://www.buffalobills.com/news/2022-mock-draft-watch-4-0)” had more WR’s...but CB was still the most predicted...

CB - 10
WR - 7
LB - 2
RB - 1
OG - 1
DT - 1

The 7 WR in this version, which goes to ALL draft picks being largely determined by who is available, had all of the mocks prediction of three different QR’s....Jameson Williams, Treylon Burks and Jahan Dodson.

All three of these WR went well before the Bills pick came up....Williams #12, Dodson #16 and Burks #18. It is not a stretch of imagination to think that IF any of them were there at #25, the Bills could have struck.


PLUS, it is glaringly obvious (in hindsight) that any of these WR being a Bills 1st round pick last year could have had the Bills in a much more desirable position in the WR room then we and ourselves in today.

Before mock drafts are dismissed as not valuable....I beg to differ.


I find mock drafts (done by professional media writers or analysts from prominent nation publications) are extremely valuable because they are, in part, gleaned from their access to the scuttlebutt within the teams themselves. Rumors and talk that we are not privy to.

I strongly suspect that Bijan Robinson will be gone before the Bills pick comes up.

But, IF he does fall (because of the diminished value of RB’s in general) the Bills would be morons not to consider picking him.

The Bills talent organization may not hit the jackpot with every pick, but they are NOT morons.

[Mr. Pink]

What’s “asinine” is saying "It's a passing league and you're going to waste first round capital on a position that only situationally matters? “.

No. The running game and RB’s is NOT "a position that only situationally matters”. Jesus. An effective and dynamic passing game DEPENDS on an effective running game that poses a threat. It’s proven every year, year and year out.

The Bills have used JOSH ALLEN as that running threat. And that is 100% unsustainable.

The one who’s "none of your posts can be taken seriously when it comes to football.” is YOU.




We haven't had an effective nor dynamic running game the past three seasons, and what has it mattered? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

Cleveland, for example, does have an effective and dynamic running game and what has that gotten them? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

It's almost like you don't even watch football, spew some talking heads points and think we're still in 1983.

[notacon]

We haven't had an effective nor dynamic running game the past three seasons, and what has it mattered? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

Cleveland, for example, does have an effective and dynamic running game and what has that gotten them? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

It's almost like you don't even watch football, spew some talking heads points and think we're still in 1983.

Hmmmmm....did I miss the Bills winning three Super Bowls the past three season????

Sorry, but to say that "We haven't had an effective nor dynamic running game the past three seasons, and what has it mattered? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.” is really, really silly.

Your ridiculous insults about "not watching football” or "none of your posts can be taken seriously when it comes to football” sure looks like a form of projection. Certainly, in part, because you cannot refute my reasonable and sensible posts.

[kgun12]

Hmmmmm....did I miss the Bills winning three Super Bowls the past three season????

Sorry, but to say that "We haven't had an effective nor dynamic running game the past three seasons, and what has it mattered? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.” is really, really silly.

Your ridiculous insults about "not watching football” or "none of your posts can be taken seriously when it comes to football” sure looks like a form of projection. Certainly, in part, because you cannot refute my reasonable and sensible posts.

But he’s not refuting your opinion, he actually refuting all the people you cut and pasted.

[sukie]

I would love Bijan as a Bill. Free agency can fix slot and back fill but OLine and Safety will prolly be draft. At 27 that COULD be the 6 foot RB in my opinion.

[Mr. Pink]

Hmmmmm....did I miss the Bills winning three Super Bowls the past three season????

Sorry, but to say that "We haven't had an effective nor dynamic running game the past three seasons, and what has it mattered? Zip. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.” is really, really silly.

Your ridiculous insults about "not watching football” or "none of your posts can be taken seriously when it comes to football” sure looks like a form of projection. Certainly, in part, because you cannot refute my reasonable and sensible posts.

You also apparently did miss when he had a dynamic and effective running game, you know when we weren't making the playoffs for a decade +

Running the ball, except situationally does not matter in today's NFL. It really hasn't mattered since the 60s when Jimmy Brown was tearing up the league. Just think of how good OJ was for the Bills and what did they win? Nothing. Think of how good Walter Payton was, the Bears outside of a few years at the tail end of his career were a doormat.

You need to do three things running the football in todays NFL. 3rd or 4th and 1 pickups and goal line situations. With this new push the QB on a sneak up the middle phenomenon going on in todays NFL it barely matters in those two situations. The third is to close out a game but the offensive line is just as important as you're going to have to grind out 10 yards against 8 or 9 men in the box.

[notacon]

You also apparently did miss when he had a dynamic and effective running game, you know when we weren't making the playoffs for a decade +

Running the ball, except situationally does not matter in today's NFL. It really hasn't mattered since the 60s when Jimmy Brown was tearing up the league. Just think of how good OJ was for the Bills and what did they win? Nothing. Think of how good Walter Payton was, the Bears outside of a few years at the tail end of his career were a doormat.

You need to do three things running the football in todays NFL. 3rd or 4th and 1 pickups and goal line situations. With this new push the QB on a sneak up the middle phenomenon going on in todays NFL it barely matters in those two situations. The third is to close out a game but the offensive line is just as important as you're going to have to grind out 10 yards against 8 or 9 men in the box.

Everyone knows, and it has been discussed here many, many, many times, that the Bills offense is lacking an effective running game, and the main threat of running the ball comes from our QB, which is a terrible position to be in.


It is totally irrelevant that "You also apparently did miss when he had a dynamic and effective running game, you know when we weren't making the playoffs for a decade +” because the Bills were lacking THE most critial player in becoming a pernailly competitive team....QB!!!!

We NEVER had even close to an elite QB in that decade+ of playoff drought, and if we DID have one when we had "a dynamic and effective running game” there is NO DOUBT that the Bills would have been a playoff team with an extremely good chance of challenging for a Super Bowl.

There is no doubt that is true!!!

If you are trying to put forth the idea that drafting a RB in the first round is always unworthy of that premium pick, that simply illustrates constipated thinking that is much too prevalent and ignores the reality that getting hung up on any position (or avoiding such) is a recipe for really bad drafting.

Three of the positions (besides RB, which is almost a given since if the Bills decide to cut Hines and Singletary for cap purposes, there would be only one RB under contract) that are almost universally accepted as a point of emphasis this offseason are guard, safety and WR.

WR and defensive back (the best source for draft information DraftHistory (http://www.drafthistory.com) does not distinguish between CB and S, they simply list “defensive backs” DB) are two of the most sought after 1st round picks.

Since those positions are in high demand, many times, players that are not graded or worth a first round pick, are selected in the first round anyway. The cream of the crop is usually gone by the late stages of the first round.

So, if the Bills are targeting those two positions, but all of their prospects that they had graded highly are gone....it is drafting malpractice to STILL pick one just to fill that position. “Reaching” is a real thing in the draft and teams get burned every year for doing so.

What is really interesting, is that the other position that has been bantered around this board (and on many mock draft sites) is the need for a guard....that position has a perceived value by GM’s (as reflected by how many are chosen in the first round) almost identical to RB’s.

Yeah....in the past 10 drafts, from 2012 to 2022, there have been 18 guards selected in the first round. Directly behind G’s, are....the facts do not lie....RB’s at 15.

TE’s and C’s bring up the rear with only, respectively, 9 and 8 chosen in the 1st round the last 10 years.

The breakdown for all offensive positions selected in the first round from 2012 to 2022....

WR - 46
T - 41
QB - 34
G - 18
RB - 15
TE - 9
C - 8

So, by the people hamstrung by the idea that 'RB’s are not worth a damn in today’s NFL’ as evidenced by how the emphasis in spending premium 1st round picks on them, the same is true of guards.

Of course, the elephant in the room and the fact that you seem to want to ignore, is that WHO IS AVAILABLE is critically important in making any 1st round (and every pick for that matter) in respect to how highly that player is graded by the team’s draft organization (and it IS an “organization”....of many individuals and talent evaluators that are professionals that work on evaluating college players all year round....not “fans” that may have watched a couple of college games each week on tee vee).

The likelihood that all of the WR’s and DB's the Bills may value be long open by the time their pick comes up is extremely high. Same goes with G, since there is really only one G that has been deemed worthy of a first round pick, and has been mocked to the Bills (as I have already noted (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/262553-kgun-s-quot-Where-do-we-go-quot-Running-back?p=5006760&viewfull=1#post5006760))....O’Cyrus Torrence.

Even if he is available at #25, is Torrence really worth a first round pick???? According to this professional analyst (https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35180722/2023-nfl-draft-every-prospect-first-round-grade-plus-comps-including-top-quarterbacks-edge-rushers-wide-receivers-round-1), NO. There are NO interior O-lineman worth a 1st round pick.

He also has only two WR’s (Jaxon Smith-Njigba & Jordan Addison) and one Safety (Brian Branch) that are graded as 1st round worthy.


....and ONE RB....Bijan Robinson, who is grade NUMBER FIVE overall of ALL the draft prospects, irregardless of their position.

My premise is, if the highly regarded prospects in the positions that may (or may not be, we do not know) targeted by the Bills in this draft at WR, G and S....are GONE by the time #27 comes around, BUT, the blue chip, rare talent RB IS available, to reject selecting him out of hand is dumb. It’s NFL drafting malpractice.

Disagree if you wish. The best reaction to that mindset (picking a RB in the 1st round is foolish) was written by The Athletic staff (https://theathletic.com/4237135/2023/02/23/nfl-mock-draft-team-by-team/) mock draft writer when Colton Pouncy (beat writer who covers the Detroit Lions) has Bijan Robinson going well before the Bills pick, at #18 to Detroit....




18. Detroit Lions: Bijan Robinson (https://theathletic.com/college-football/player/bijan-robinson-DdLlmb1vVVfy5oNc/), RB, Texas

That sound you’re hearing is Draft Twitter furiously typing away to tell me how dumb it is to take a running back in the first round. The problem? I don’t really care. Bijan Robinson is the best prospect to come out in years and a top-five talent in this class. What he brings as both a runner (104 missed tackles forced in 2022) and a pass catcher is special. He has a chance to take an already good Lions offense and turn it into an elite one. The idea of Jameson Williams (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/jameson-williams-gwmcH6DayIPwgbFw/), Amon-Ra St. Brown (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/amon-ra-st-brown-bjpbld5lEgMcPyJA/), Robinson and this offensive line in the same offense is downright scary — and makes life easier for Jared Goff (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/jared-goff-WhulkiCmzKfAaXU7/).


Offensive coordinator Ben Johnson recently mentioned the need to turn four- and five-yard runs into runs of eight, nine or more. Robinson can step in and do that from Day 1 at a high level. As for the defense, Detroit allowed 20.2 points per game in its final 10 games once its rookie class broke through. Now the team is adding a corner at No. 9, has four more Day 2 picks to address defense and can also add in free agency. Perfectly fine with this move. — Pouncy



The exact same thing can be said of the Buffalo Bills.

[Woodman]

You need to do three things running the football in todays NFL. 3rd or 4th and 1 pickups and goal line situations. With this new push the QB on a sneak up the middle phenomenon going on in todays NFL it barely matters in those two situations. The third is to close out a game but the offensive line is just as important as you're going to have to grind out 10 yards against 8 or 9 men in the box.

SMASH MOUTH PLUS PLUS PLUS!!

[Mr. Pink]

The exact same thing can be said of the Buffalo Bills.

Good let the Lions waste draft capital on a dime a dozen position that has little relevance in todays NFL.

Chiefs RB - 7th round pick. Bengals RB - 2nd round pick. Ravens - 3rd round pick acquired via trade. Dolphins - UDFA acquired via trade.

Meanwhile, we just used a 2nd round pick last year on a RB who averaged 5.7ypc and you want to blow a first round pick on another RB?

Look at what the teams you're competing against to make the Super Bowl and what they've done.

Then mirror that.

Or just parrot an article you found that tries to prove your point, even though what works in this league is the exact opposite.

[Mace]

The height of stupidity....good read.

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2023/02/the-height-of-stupidity-are-the-bills-crazy-to-consider-drafting-a-running-back-in-round-one.html

[notacon]

Good let the Lions waste draft capital on a dime a dozen position that has little relevance in todays NFL.

Chiefs RB - 7th round pick. Bengals RB - 2nd round pick. Ravens - 3rd round pick acquired via trade. Dolphins - UDFA acquired via trade.

Meanwhile, we just used a 2nd round pick last year on a RB who averaged 5.7ypc and you want to blow a first round pick on another RB?

Look at what the teams you're competing against to make the Super Bowl and what they've done.

Then mirror that.

Or just parrot an article you found that tries to prove your point, even though what works in this league is the exact opposite.

The year the Chiefs won the Super Bowl (Feb 2020) they used their first round pick on RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire two months later. They got lucky with Pacheco and certainly did not expect hm to be anything more than training camp fodder when they picked him.

Christian McCafffrey, that many here wanted to trade for this season, was drafted #8 overall. SanFran, who could have been in the SB if their QB was not hurt early int he NFCC game, gave up a ransom to get him, and it propelled them into instant SB contention.


Josh Jacobs, who many here are lusting over, was drafted #24 overall.

Tampa Bay, winners of the Super Bowl in 2021, had Leonard Fournette on their team, a previous #4 overall pick, who was a HUGE part of their SB winning team.

Your assertion that RB’s are a "dime a dozen position that has little relevance in todays NFL” is not supported by the facts.

The one that is “parroting” stuff that are in many articles is YOU.....the knuckle headed idea that blue chip RB’s are not worth anything.

I formed my opinion some time ago, and simply provide supporting evidence form professionals that know a lot more not football than you think you do.

The point is that if a blue chip RB is seen as one of the best talents in five years, smart team pick ‘em, 1st round if necessary if that will help their team.

I still don’t expect the Bills to be able to select Robinson. If Detroit gets him, he will almost assuredly be a huge part of them getting into the playoffs and maybe making some noise. They will NOT think they “wasted draft capital”.

Unfortunately, the Bills have “wasted draft capital” at times too.

Trading up to get Elam looks like a waste based on his perfomcne his rookie year. Hopefully, he will prove himself to be worthy. Basham’s 2nd round pick has not paid off yet. Ed Oliver, #9 overall, has many fans here ready to get rid of him. Cody Ford was a bona fide bust from the 2nd round.

On the other hand, Christian Benford looks like a steal at #185. Shakir has the chance to be the #3 WR from the 148th pick. Spencer Brown still has a chance to be a solid starter from the #93 pick.

Damar Hamlin was a solid S from #212. Gabe Davis has some work to do, but is still a solid contributor from the #128th slot. Same with Dawson Knox, #96...and on and on and on.

Narrow mindset is deadly in the NFL. THANK GOD you are not anywhere close to the Bills talent evaluation organization of the GM's office. Your constipated mindset would strangle the Bills.

[notacon]

The height of stupidity....good read.

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2023/02/the-height-of-stupidity-are-the-bills-crazy-to-consider-drafting-a-running-back-in-round-one.html

The each their own opinion.

Anthony DeCicco is the editor-in-chief of a college “student newspaper (https://twitter.com/UBSpectrum)" and an intern at newyorkupstate that this was published on.


If you want to value college students (basically a “fan”) opinion over professional sports media writers on national renown publications, that’s your business.

I strongly suspect that professional NFL GM’s and talent evaluators will show his opinion to be an example of “the height of stupidity” when Robinson is drafted in the first round...probably much higher than the Bills can economically trade up to get.

[Mace]

The each their own opinion.

Anthony DeCicco is the editor-in-chief of a college “student newspaper (https://twitter.com/UBSpectrum)" and an intern at newyorkupstate that this was published on.


If you want to value college students (basically a “fan”) opinion over professional sports media writers on national renown publications, that’s your business.

I strongly suspect that professional NFL GM’s and talent evaluators will show his opinion to be an example of “the height of stupidity” when Robinson is drafted in the first round...probably much higher than the Bills can economically trade up to get.

Multiple people gave their opinions in there...including the Bills espn writer. Your limited mindset kind of ruins your credibility.

You saying you're more of an expert than those who earn a living writing about the Bills ? Bizarre.

[notacon]

BTW....the reiterate what I believe.....first I do not think Robinson will be available for the Bills to draft at #27....probably well gone by #20.


Because despite the silliness expressed that RB are a "dime a dozen position that has little relevance in todays NFL” and it’s a “waste" to draft one in the 1st round......the reality is completely different when the right talent comes along and as I presented the facts (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/262553-kgun-s-quot-Where-do-we-go-quot-Running-back?p=5006934&viewfull=1#post5006934), NFL teams will draft RB’s in the 1st round at about the same rate they draft guards, and more than TE’s or centers.

My premise is, if the highly regarded prospects in the positions that may (or may not be, we do not know) targeted by the Bills in this draft at WR, G and S....are GONE by the time #27 comes around, BUT, the blue chip, rare talent RB IS available, to reject selecting him out of hand is dumb.

It’s NFL drafting malpractice.

[notacon]

Multiple people gave their opinions in there...including the Bills espn writer. Your limited mindset kind of ruins your credibility.

You saying you're more of an expert than those who earn a living writing about the Bills ? Bizarre.

That is incorrect. The college student writer that was quoted as saying drafting a RB in the first round would be “the height of stupidity” was who I was dismissing.

As I stated before, more professional media writers have the Bills selecting Robinson than any other individual player in the latest “2023 Mock Draft Watch 2.0 (https://www.buffalobills.com/news/2023-mock-draft-watch-2-0)” where of the 33 mocks presented, the most (9) have the Bills picking a RB, and the most (7) have the Bills picking Robinson.

The three ESPN draft experts have Robinson going #26 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35514084/2023-nfl-mock-draft-mel-kiper-first-round-predictions-31-picks-best-team-fits-top-prospects), #10 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35585484/2023-nfl-mock-draft-matt-miller-two-round-predictions-senior-bowl-shrine-bowl-quarterback-landings-spots-trade-projection) and #22 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35608911/2023-nfl-mock-draft-todd-mcshay-post-super-bowl-predictions-31-first-round-picks-quarterback-landing-spots-projected-trade).


Which supports my premise as stated above.

[Woodman]

You also apparently did miss when he had a dynamic and effective running game, you know when we weren't making the playoffs for a decade +

Running the ball, except situationally does not matter in today's NFL. It really hasn't mattered since the 60s when Jimmy Brown was tearing up the league. Just think of how good OJ was for the Bills and what did they win? Nothing. Think of how good Walter Payton was, the Bears outside of a few years at the tail end of his career were a doormat.



Something to consider .... how did anybody miss that one. :rofl: :cheers:

I must admit I do still enjoy the idea of a bruiser. (Cookie)

[Historian]

I saw enough out of Cook to give him at least one more chance.

Fix the line, and a running game will follow.

[notacon]

Multiple people gave their opinions in there...including the Bills espn writer. Your limited mindset kind of ruins your credibility.

You saying you're more of an expert than those who earn a living writing about the Bills ? Bizarre.

I suspect that you did not listen to the actual 1:12 long podcast and only read the opinion from the college/intern who was pushing his own, let’s say, provocative (and I think silly) statement that drafting a RB in the first round "height of stupidity”.

Well, I DID listen to the whole thing...and it was much more ambiguous than that sensational headline. Most of all, the whole group did not really address the basis of my premise....

“...if the highly regarded prospects in the positions that may (or may not be, we do not know) targeted by the Bills in this draft at WR, G and S....are GONE by the time #27 comes around, BUT, the blue chip, rare talent RB IS available, to reject selecting him out of hand is dumb."

Yeah, there was a lot of talk about WR, O-line and S being important needs, but, they absolutely failed to address the equally “height of stupidity” of reaching for prospects in the first round for any of those positions.

There was one mention of possibly “trading back”. But it was not emphasized. What WAS said, as I have also, is that the chances that Robinson will be at #27 is highly unlikely.

Additionally, several times, one of the guests emphasized these points...direct quotes are in italics....

-“RB in round one vs arguably the best weapon in the draft are two different conversations”.

-fans were "All aboard the Christian McCarffey train and all aboard the Barkley train that are out in RB in round one even if that’s the next guy in that category”

-“Robinson is by far is one of the best playmakers in this draft and my top RB in this draft and he’s a special player.”

Most of the objection to drawing Robinson was that the Bills have drafted three backs in the past four yeas (but they totally ignore the fact that one is already gone and the other is about to be), and that having such a great RB would (absurdly) “take the ball away from Josh Allen”.

It really is a vapid talking point. The likelihood already is that losing Singletary represents 177 carries from 2022, and almost everyone agree that having our prized QB carry the ball 124 times is simply untenable. They all agreed that James Cook, albeit a possible good addition is "not a three down back and may never be”

Another absurd observations was that drafting such a potential star is a “tough sell because of the recent RB picks, and take away from the Josh Allen show”

If one’s objective is to improve an offense that they all observed needs more weapons and was lacking in balance and creativity.....rejecting drafting a player of Robinson’s’ caliber is pretty contradictory.

In any event, they certainly made some very good points...ones that may of us here (including myself) have been making for some time. The weirdest was floating the idea of a first or second round pick on a TE.

But, why a LOT of posters here would cringe at was when they talked abut Tremaine Edmunds. As usual, the opinions are almost completely opposite of the critics here.

It was interesting that they framed it as a comparison (on who is more valuable to spend cap dollars on and long term solutions) between Ed Oliver and Edmunds.

They pretty much trashed Oliver as a disappointment and not nearly as valuable as investing in Edmunds. Besides the observations that Edmunds has performed extremely well, improved every year and is a very important part of the Bills defense.

Much discussion was about the possibility of trading Oliver. Pretty much came up with, they would not get enough for him to make it worth it.

Here are some relevant quotes....

Concerning trading Oliver....Alania Getzenberg of ESPN asks....if they trade Oliver “who are you playing at DT?”


Answer from one of the males (very difficult to know who was talking...Alania was the only female voice so easy to know when she piped in) "third round pick, fifth round pick, draft multiple guys….KC has been doing it for multiple years. Obviously, they have Chris Jones, but DaQuan Jones showed a lot and give you that presence at that spot and bring in a rookie and you develop him.”

He continued...…”You are going to miss Ed Oliver, but I also think that you are going to potentially miss Edmunds more, and at his age and what he does and the time they have spent on him from a development standpoint, I would want to keep that if you can, especially if it’s a contract that ends up being that he takes that Matt Milano approach that where maybe you can get a couple more million per year elsewhere but he takes a little bit of a hometown discount to stay in Buffalo with Sean McDermott”

And then this (what I have been saying for quite some time)....

“I do think there will be a MASSIVE (emphasis in his voice) hole on the defense if Tremaine Edmunds is not a part of it next year and I think it affects multiple people….I think it effects the secondary a lot because of what I think teams do to scheme against the Bills defense, I think it opens up the middle of the field depending on who they are going to put in there.”


And the response to that....

….”I think one thing we saw this year is the value of Jordan Poyer, when he was not in the lineup, I think you saw the value of Tremaine Edmunds, and I think on top of what he did on the field I think you saw the defense when he wasn’t on it, with injuries, it was different….it was different.

You can’t just plug in AJ Klein or Terrel Dodson or Terrel Bernard and it’s the same….that’s not the case. Could it? With someone else? Maybe? But I will say this….when Oliver is not in the lineup, I don’t really think the needle moves a whole lot different. Outside of the Los Angeles game where he gets hurt after that game and I’m like…I don’t know.

So often we hear about defensive lineman especially on the interior that ‘Oh, what they do and provide you never really see on the stat sheet’…well, you drafted him in the top ten to be different than that.

To be a guy that you notice on the interior who’s built different, who’s a pass rushing defensive tackle and he’s never been that….and talking about trading Oliver is not going to happen…who’s going to take him? You are not going to get enough back to make it worthwhile.”

Alania says...."The moves they are going to make this off season is going to tell us a lot about how they feel the value of some of these positions. How do they feel about the MLB spot. How do they feel about Tremaine sitting there…how much do they want to pay him? How much do they want to pay for safety.”

She disagrees about Oliver...up to a point when she says (paraphrasing) She thinks he’s worth the fifth year option and he does make a difference when he’s not on the field. Not consistent enough, but I think there was a difference.

The guy that brought up Oliver reminds that since he contracted this situation ad it’s fictitious asks Alania directly...."….”if it’s Oliver/Edmunds, and you have to pick one….you’re picking Oliver?”

She shoots that down right away saying....“if it means keeping Ed Oliver for just this next year versus Tremaine for many years to come….that’s Tremaine no doubt. I think it depends on what situation we are talking about here, to me it’s just like getting Tremaine for like three years, that’s a no brainer vs Ed Oliver for next year."

They also got into a discussion that Oliver has needed other players around him to “realize his full potential” but other players like Edmonds, Poyer, Hyde, Diggs and Tre’ White dod not. Their value and quaintly of play can stand on its own.

So...thanks for bringing this to my attention Mace.

It, once again, like I have shown over and over and over and over again, the prevailing cynics when it comes to Edmunds value and importance to the Bills defense and the value for the long term to the Bills is completely opposite of what experts and professional media writers (and amateur ones that have a platform like this) along with NFL GM’s, coaches and players that almost universally support and defend Edmunds.

[Mace]

That is incorrect. The college student writer that was quoted as saying drafting a RB in the first round would be “the height of stupidity” was who I was dismissing.

As I stated before, more professional media writers have the Bills selecting Robinson than any other individual player in the latest “2023 Mock Draft Watch 2.0 (https://www.buffalobills.com/news/2023-mock-draft-watch-2-0)” where of the 33 mocks presented, the most (9) have the Bills picking a RB, and the most (7) have the Bills picking Robinson.

The three ESPN draft experts have Robinson going #26 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35514084/2023-nfl-mock-draft-mel-kiper-first-round-predictions-31-picks-best-team-fits-top-prospects), #10 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35585484/2023-nfl-mock-draft-matt-miller-two-round-predictions-senior-bowl-shrine-bowl-quarterback-landings-spots-trade-projection) and #22 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35608911/2023-nfl-mock-draft-todd-mcshay-post-super-bowl-predictions-31-first-round-picks-quarterback-landing-spots-projected-trade).


Which supports my premise as stated above.

That's fine...to each their own...but I can't take you serious any more and won't even try. You define experts by who you agree with....have no capacity for critical tbinking...and don't even realize when no one agrees with your bizarre assertions.

It's all good....it's a .message board...but I believe you're utterly clueless and can't even support the logic you don't care about anyway. I don't even think you watch the games...you just read about tbem after.

But hey....enjoy.

[Woodman]

I saw enough out of Cook to give him at least one more chance.

Fix the line, and a running game will follow.

Definitely the sky's the limit with Cook JMO.

[notacon]

That's fine...to each their own...but I can't take you serious any more and won't even try. You define experts by who you agree with....have no capacity for critical tbinking...and don't even realize when no one agrees with your bizarre assertions.

It's all good....it's a .message board...but I believe you're utterly clueless and can't even support the logic you don't care about anyway. I don't even think you watch the games...you just read about tbem after.

But hey....enjoy.
:rofl: Jesus.

As you display a profound LACK of "capacity for critical thinking”.

Look in the mirror, you are projecting YOUR traits of being “utterly clueless”, not worth being taken seriously, putting forth "bizarre assertions”, you "define experts by who you agree with”, you appear to "don't even think you watch the games”....all traits that are much more prevalent with YOU and the other Edmunds haters than me.

Whatever.

[notacon]

BTW....here is ANOTHER draft expert, Mel Kiper, predicting Robinson to the Bills at #27 (https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35742992/2023-nfl-mock-draft-mel-kiper-first-round-predictions-31-picks-best-team-fits-top-prospects-second-version).....



27. Buffalo Bills (https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills)

Bijan Robinson (https://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/106312), RB, Texas

Robinson is a top-10 prospect just based on talent in this draft, but it was tough finding a perfect fit for him. Teams (rightly) aren't taking running backs in the top 10 anymore, choosing instead to find values in the middle and late rounds. While I agree with that strategy, there comes a point in Round 1 in which it does make sense to snag a running back as talented as Robinson, and that's here. The Bills could get a complete back -- Robinson is stellar between the tackles and has great hands as a pass-catcher -- and a player who can make quarterback Josh Allen (https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3918298/josh-allen)'s life easier. This is a way for the Buffalo offense to take the next step.


If general manager Brandon Beane passes on Robinson, keep an eye on the offensive linemen. Guard O'Cyrus Torrence (https://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/106379) (Florida) is a mauler in the run game who could start immediately.



Cue the smearing and denigrating of Mel Kiper....and "define experts by who you agree with.” :rofl:

[Historian]

Someone from NFLN made this prediction too....saw it scrolling across the bottom of the screen.

To be honest, I would be very disappointed if they take any running back this year, when what they really need is a #2 receiver.

[notacon]

Someone from NFLN made this prediction too....saw it scrolling across the bottom of the screen.

To be honest, I would be very disappointed if they take any running back this year, when what they really need is a #2 receiver.

Several mocks have the Bills selecting Robinson in the first round. In fact, the “2023 Mock Draft Watch 2.0 (https://www.buffalobills.com/news/2023-mock-draft-watch-2-0)”, has the one player mocked the most for the Bills at #27 being Robinson. It is quite the popular 1st round mock pick for the Bills....so far....that will likely change as the preseason commences.

I don’t think he’ll be there at #27. If they do select him, that does not preclude the addition of a player to challenge Davis for the #2 WR spot either.

FA could certainly provide some competition for the #2 WR spot. Plus the fact that there are pretty good WR’s that could easily drop into the second and third round.

Looking at the possible draft prospects that have a good chance to be there for the Bills at #27, that would serve our needs well, O’Cyrus Torrence seems to be the best fit. It remains to be seen if a WR worthy of a 1st round pick is there for the Bills as #27.


WR’s are in high demand and for the past 10 years have seen the most WR’s selected in the 1st round over any offensive position...QB’s included. OG is one of the fewest.

In any event, it’s about time that Beane spends a 1st round pick on an offensive skill position. The only 1st round pick of that has been Josh Allen (although they did trade a 1st round pick for Diggs).

Even in the first two rounds, James Cook is the only other one....and they did not really want to do that since they traded back twice and he barely made it in the second round, being the next to last 31st pick in round 2.