Do the Bills have a Sean McDermott Problem???

[notacon]

It’s sure starting to look that way. With the Diggs drama being the latest in a fairly long list of rumors and speculation that McD may be losing control, or worse yet, RESPECT in the locker room.

The last came with this report from Mike Florio, citing an article from Boston Globe writer, Ben Volin.

The actual story from Mr. Volin is behind a pay wall, but Florio quotes this “nugget”…

Report: Stefon Diggs is unhappy with his role in offense, voice in play-calling (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/19/report-stefon-diggs-is-unhappy-with-his-role-in-offense-voice-in-play-calling/)



The Stefon Diggs (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/9728/stefon-diggs) drama in Buffalo provided plenty of entertainment and intrigue for roughly 24 hours last week, before Bills coach Sean McDermott shifted into full-blown nothing-to-see-here mode.

Of course there is plenty of see. We saw it play out on Tuesday. A truce somehow was negotiated between Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, a surely tentative middle ground that McDermott dared not disrupt by inadvertently blurting out the truth.


most of last week, there were no reports regarding the source of Diggs’s obvious displeasure. On Sunday, Ben Volin of the Boston Globe filled the void with this nugget regarding the situation: “Diggs’s frustration is with his role in the offense and his voice in play-calling (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/06/17/sports/stefon-diggs-bills/?event=event12), per a league source close to the Bills’ locker room.”

Snip…

He skipped all of the voluntary portion of the offseason program, a fact that didn’t trouble Bills fans as much as it should have. Last week, the boiling point was quickly reached after Diggs showed up for mandatory minicamp, attended meetings with McDermott and G.M. Brandon Beane on Monday and Tuesday — and then left before the first mandatory minicamp practice started on Tuesday.

It’s still not clear whether Diggs stormed out or whether he was asked/told to leave. Diggs complained on social media about someone lying; it’s possible he left only after someone suggested that he do so.

More….




Tim Graham has already reported that (https://twitter.com/PatMoranTweets/status/1669736596986380291?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1669736596986380291%7Ctwgr%5Ea0c66c30edda4e506bc347a6b8cd9c8415c4779f%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreplyt%3D263207)….



”My take is, I don’t have one. I’ve been trying to find out what is the issue, and I don’t know.

And everybody has been tightly lipped about it….I’ve been told, that it is NOT Ken Dorsey if you want to strike that one off the list, because that is about all I could wriggle out of my sources.”

That is pretty unequivocal, and the report from Mr. Volin does not necessarily refute what Graahm said.

It’s interesting that Volin frames this as Diggs “frustration” with his “role” in the offence and “his voice in play calling”

The meeting in question was with McDermott and BEANE…not Dorsey.

This sure looks like a questioning, by Diggs, of the way McDermott is approaching the job, as in what constraints he has put on Dorsey.

Add to this the Tyler Dunn reporting that McD big footed the ST coach and ****ed up the kickoff at “13 seconds” and the (mostly speculation…that may have had strong influence by McD) of taking over defensive play calling for the same 13 seconds….and the picture is not looking very pretty or positive.

I value Tim Graham saying that McD did NOT take of defensive play calling since that one game in 2018…but that does not preclude a huge influence to the strategy.

There is little question that McDermott handled the whole Diggs drama pretty poorly....certainly in his public quotes.

Like I said in another thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5029688&viewfull=1#post5029688)…

“I especially agree with your final statement...."I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained”

I‘m thinking that getting to the AFCC may not be enough. Getting to the Super Bowl is critical. I could live with (another) loss there....depending on how the loss comes about. But failing to get there is not going to cut it.”


And…”The patients with McDermott is wearing extremely thin (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5029687&viewfull=1#post5029687).”

[Novacane]

Do WR ever get a role in play calling? Anywhere?

[sukie]

They should.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Newsbreak: WR in Buffalo to have a role in play calling.

Back to Stan with the Weather ….

[notacon]

Do WR ever get a role in play calling? Anywhere?
This team has two bona fide superstars. (at least on offense...Von Miller is another one). Without Allen and Diggs, this team would probably still be mired in the drought.

We do not know (or probably ever will) what is even meant by “voice in the play calling” although it certainly meshes with his “role”.

Although the Ben Volin's article is behind a pay wall, for some reason I was able to access it though my phone via Apple News. He brings up these important observations....



Oh, and things are just fine between Diggs and the team. He even appeared at Wednesday’s practice, participating in individual drills before sitting out team drills.

“He was excused by me, and so those conversations have got us to what I think and believe is a great spot,” McDermott said.

Of course, that’s a sanitized version of events. The Bills really do have issues with Diggs, their 29-year-old star receiver. McDermott is just doing his best to deescalate a tricky situation.

What else can McDermott do? McDermott needs Diggs more than ever in 2023, following two straight embarrassing postseason losses that have put McDermott on the hot seat. McDermott may have won three straight AFC East titles, but he doesn’t have much to show for it.

….snip….

Diggs’s frustration is with his role in the offense and his voice in play-calling, per a league source close to the Bills’ locker room. He was visibly agitated at Allen during the 27-10 playoff loss to the Bengals, stormed out of the locker room almost immediately after the game, and didn’t attend any voluntary workouts this offseason.

The issues still hadn’t been resolved when the Bills reported for mandatory minicamp on Monday evening, as Diggs skipped Tuesday’s practice. Diggs’s agent, Adisa Bakari, told ESPN that Diggs reported for his physical on Monday night and did everything the team asked him to do, calling it an “in-house” issue, not contractual.

But by Wednesday, Diggs was back on the field, and McDermott spoke of the importance of involving Diggs more.

“Listen, getting Stef the ball is an important part of our offense. There’s no reason to say it isn’t,” McDermott said. “He’s a big focal point of our offense, in addition to Josh. And so you know, it’s important to get him going, and the more production he has, the more production we have as an offense.”

At first glance it’s hard to see how the Bills could get Diggs more opportunities. His stats last year all ranked in the top five in the NFL — 154 targets, 108 catches, 1,429 yards, and 11 touchdowns. Since joining the Bills for the 2020 season, Diggs is top six in all of those stats, and his 484 targets rank second behind only Davante Adams.

But a closer look does reveal a few reasons for Diggs to be upset. Over the last six games in 2023, including two playoff games, Diggs caught just one touchdown pass and averaged a meager 63 receiving yards. per game. In the playoff loss to the Bengals, a listless, blowout defeat at home, Diggs had just four catches for 35 yards.

And Diggs may not have connected as well with new offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey after thriving for two years with former coordinator Brian Daboll. McDermott intimated that it was all discussed with Diggs on Tuesday.

“We come out of those meetings with some real truths about what we could have done better,” McDermott said. “I’m extremely impressed and appreciative of the communication that we’ve had. And we all want the same thing, and that’s what we kept coming back to, is we all want to win. And so I think we’re in a good spot.”





They should.

Sure looks like it for the Bills, who for every one the 4 lost games last year were because ( in large part) of an underperforming offense....late in the year they did not look that threatening for long stretches. In every one of the three regular season losses the offense had the ball in their hands with a legitimate chance to win the game.

They failed every time.

It also sure looks like Diggs wants to WIN so badly that he is 100% justified to be “frustrated” and has every right...no...DUTY...in questioning how he is utilized. When Diggs is cooking, the Bills are hard to stop.

What is so unnerving about so many of these issues (and in particular how awfully McDermott handing this situation in public.....as Tim Graham pointed out how badly in stark detail (https://twitter.com/PatMoranTweets/status/1669736596986380291?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1669736596986380291%7Ctwgr%5E7ee88e14de9f7989bf7e24b573604bd416740f77%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.buffalorumblings.com%2F2023%2F6%2F16%2F23764124%2Ftim-graham-refutes-recent-rumors-on-rifts-at-one-bills-drive-buffalo-bills-news-stefon-diggs-nfl).....”...self inflicted wound to self inflicted wound to self inflicted wound in what McDermott said.....” is that McDermott is flailing right now and either has or is very close to losing the respect of the locker room and of its biggest stars.

Maybe McDermott DID “resolve” the issue and is NOW listening to Stefon Diggs....just like he has to listen to Josh Allen.

There is no reason to feel comfortable with the team’s head coach right now. He could quell all of that doubt with a season that lives up to the expectations and the stellar quality of the roster....and especially an uber-elite QB and elite WR.

He certainly will have NO excuse if the defense is not HEAD AND SHOULDERS better than 2022, when injuries decimated too many of the BEST starters....Hyde missing almost all season...Tre’ White not playing most of the season and barely getting back to full strength...Von Miller missing the most critial end of the season....Poyer playing injured all season...losing their other starting safety (who replaced Hyde) in Hamlin...Phillips missing too many games...and on and on and on.....and despite those challenges, they performed at a very high level. Better than the offense.


On top of those facts, they added substantial free agents that go a long way to solidifying the issues that needed to be addressed.


No excuses left for McDermott. It’s ‘make it or break it’ time!!!

[Night Train]

It's a results sport and if they have an off year with missing the playoffs or an early playoff exit, the heat will be on.

Let's see how the season progresses first. Current down time drives many to insanity.

[Bill Cody]

People misunderstand Diggs. He's not your typical diva WR. Yeah he's a diva but all top WR's are. But he's not all about his own stats. The guy wants to WIN. I love that about him. He's as competitive as they come. And damnit they should listen to what he has to say, he knows exactly what he's doing. Getting him the ball more is a no brainer. He has hands like a venus fly trap.

[Goobylal]

Last year was one of the most unbelievable seasons in terms of off-field and on-field issues that I've ever seen a team endure. It's as if none of that happened and it's all McD's fault the team fizzled-out against the Bengals. I can tell you that when I saw Daquon Jones was going to miss the game, it was over.

[OpIv37]

They should.

Disagree. WR’s are ball hogs and prima donnas. Their solution will be “give me the ball” every time.

[Forward_Lateral]

Anyone have a cliff notes to this?

[YardRat]

Lack of communication on the field that led to 13 seconds.
Lack of communication the off-season after, players complained 13 seconds was never addressed.
Lack of communication, even, with the Araiza debacle.
Lack of communication this off-season with Diggs.

That pretty much narrows it down quite a bit.

[imbondz]

Anyone have a cliff notes to this?

It’s the off season and sports writers have nothing else to write about.

[Turf]

I think Josh lost his edge at the end of the season. Can't remember if it was right before or after the Bengals game, I think after. But his response was "as long as Damar is alright". That always stuck with me. If you recall before the Cincy game was cancelled, Diggs was on the sideline trying to refocus the team and get them to win the game after he was taken away. Then it was cancelled. I think the whole Damar thing effected Josh and spilled over into the psyche of the team and Diggs is like I get it but I want to win. That's why I think Damar should not be in this lineup again.

[Goobylal]

I think Josh lost his edge at the end of the season. Can't remember if it was right before or after the Bengals game, I think after. But his response was "as long as Damar is alright". That always stuck with me. If you recall before the Cincy game was cancelled, Diggs was on the sideline trying to refocus the team and get them to win the game after he was taken away. Then it was cancelled. I think the whole Damar thing effected Josh and spilled over into the psyche of the team and Diggs is like I get it but I want to win. That's why I think Damar should not be in this lineup again.

I think the whole team was emotionally drained. The off-season started with the Buffalo Tops mass casualty shooting, then Kim Pegula almost died, then Dawson Knox's brother died and then Hamlin almost died. Along the way they lost key players on defense.

[YardRat]

It’s the off season and sports writers have nothing else to write about.

It's not like they are making **** up out of thin air. The team is giving them plenty of fodder.

[DraftBoy]

I think the whole team was emotionally drained. The off-season started with the Buffalo Tops mass casualty shooting, then Kim Pegula almost died, then Dawson Knox's brother died and then Hamlin almost died. Along the way they lost key players on defense.

It was a difficult season with this team. Part of McDermott’s job is to get these guys to block that all out and focus on football, but that task may have well been insurmountable last year.

I think my biggest concern with McDermott is that I just didn’t see the swagger and fire in this team like I did the two years prior. It was almost like they were going through the motions a lot of times and either didn’t care or didn’t have any energy.

That playoff games to the Bengals was embarrassing. Either the toll of the year was truly too much and we couldn’t overcome it or we’ve lost something and better figure it out pretty quick.

[DraftBoy]

It's a results sport and if they have an off year with missing the playoffs or an early playoff exit, the heat will be on.

Let's see how the season progresses first. Current down time drives many to insanity.

If this team misses the playoffs or exits before the Conference Championship it’s probably time to move on.

[jamze132]

McDermott should absolutely NOT be on the hot seat, but he will be. Last year was unprecedented in what the team went through on and off the field and a lot of teams would have crumbled.

Having said that, he is putting a lot of pressure on himself by taking over the defense AND continuing to support Dorsey. If the defense regresses and the offense continues to be unoriginal, predictable, and ineffective, McD will have to answer for it.

We have superstars on both sides of the ball. Hopefully the coaches DO take their opinions on game day into consideration. A leader who is humble enough to know their way isn’t always the right way is a great trait to have. We’ll see where McD stands after this season.

[imbondz]

It's not like they are making **** up out of thin air. The team is giving them plenty of fodder.
Diggs missed a day and it seemed like the end of the world out there. Some of it they’re making up.

[Kenny]

No way is McD on the hot seat right now - however, we miss the playoffs or exit the first game we play, than yes - he should be put on the hot seat.

As for last year, I'm kind of tired of hearing about the on the field off the field reasons. The most important player on this team, in the most important position in all of football, played every game last year.
And yeah, I get it... he hurt his elbow near the end of the Jets game. But I dont know how anyone can say we were the same team after the bye week. Hell, if you really want to nit pick, no way we were a contender after the second half of the Pack game. Sure the snowstorm and the Hamlin situation made it worse, but this team was on a steep downward trajectory for a long time already.

[imbondz]

Y’all are crazy if you want McDermott out if we miss the playoffs. Caaarrrraaazy.

[Mr. Pink]

I said a while ago that maybe there needs to be a change in the coaching to get over that last hump, a Super Bowl, and Notty you laughed me off, now you're basically posting a thread that agrees with me asking if McDermott is a problem. :rofl:

Beane and the scouting department are also a problem but they found Allen so they have a pass probably for Allen's entire career here.

[Typ0]

McDermott is a problem. He has strapped some big new concepts onto the same old tired engine and called it progressive. He believes what he says despite it being inaccurate but keeps on trucking towards the bullseye that doesn't exist because he is warped. McDermott is a stern, rigorous, defensive minded narcissist that we are headed down another bad road with.

And, other than underachieve, he hasn't done much here. The players he inherited ended the drought. They were on a mission and made him look good.

I still hold out hope he will get it turned around because I am a homie...the reality is there is little chance he's going to change he doesn't understand the growth mindset and will remain in his own self-absorbed tunnel.

[Bill Cody]

No way is McD on the hot seat right now - however, we miss the playoffs or exit the first game we play, than yes - he should be put on the hot seat.

As for last year, I'm kind of tired of hearing about the on the field off the field reasons. The most important player on this team, in the most important position in all of football, played every game last year.
And yeah, I get it... he hurt his elbow near the end of the Jets game. But I dont know how anyone can say we were the same team after the bye week. Hell, if you really want to nit pick, no way we were a contender after the second half of the Pack game. Sure the snowstorm and the Hamlin situation made it worse, but this team was on a steep downward trajectory for a long time already.

How steep was it? We finished the last 8 games 7-1. Josh was not at 100% after the 1st Jets game. That was the biggest factor in any falloff in the 2nd half

[notacon]

I said a while ago that maybe there needs to be a change in the coaching to get over that last hump, a Super Bowl, and Notty you laughed me off, now you're basically posting a thread that agrees with me asking if McDermott is a problem.

Beane and the scouting department are also a problem but they found Allen so they have a pass probably for Allen's entire career here.

Why don’t you post what I actually said, based on what you actually said in full context???

I did not, in this thread or any other, agree with you that "maybe (I suspect that you did NOT use the qualifier “maybe” in what I objected to at the time...THAT’S why actual quotes in full context are critical...YOU have to prove it to be credible) there needs to be a change in the coaching to get over that last hump, a Super Bowl”.

What is more likely is that you put our your usual declarative statement “like “Edmunds sucks” or “Edmunds is a bust” and many others goofy and silly opinions....and said in a definitive declaration that "there needs to be a change in the coaching to get over that last hump, a Super Bowl”.

THAT is a totally different premise when the word “maybe” is taken out.

With that said, it’s more like you are agreeing with what I am saying NOW...which is based on recent reported events (and reporting of what transpired in the dumb 13 second kickoff debacle) that was published in March 2022, which I did not even read until September 2022 when I subscribed to Tyler Dunn’s Go Long....and did so to get access to that article.


Tim Graham discussed the method (https://twitter.com/PatMoranTweets/status/1669736596986380291?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1669736596986380291%7Ctwgr%5Ea0c66c30edda4e506bc347a6b8cd9c8415c4779f%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreplyt%3D263207)and mindset that he, and I use, to come up with an opinion….and also described the “shoot from the hip” mindset that explains so many posters here (like you), and which I do not use…EVER!

He said….



When I generally come with a column, I’m not….and we’ve talked about this on the podcast…we’ve talked about this whether it be here or over beers and I’ve just said it on all kinds of different platforms so, people have heard me say this…maybe they haven’t if they have not listened to this podcast.

I would not make a good columnist like Jerry Sullivan or Bucky Gleason.

I can’t shoot from the hip. That is a skill to do especially on deadline. For me to have an opinion on something, I get as much information as I can before I have an opinion on something.


As I “get as much information as I can before I have an opinion” and more and more comes out (especially this past week) my opinion starts taking more shape.

I STILL will “laugh you off” if you want to declare that “there needs to be a change in the coaching to get over that last hump, a Super Bowl”.

I do not think that, nor have I said that.

What I HAVE said…is all above.

Summed up with this statement (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263401-Do-the-Bills-have-a-Sean-McDermott-Problem?p=5029714&viewfull=1#post5029714)….



There is no reason to feel comfortable with the team’s head coach right now. He could quell all of that doubt with a season that lives up to the expectations and the stellar quality of the roster....and especially an uber-elite QB and elite WR.

That is a whole different sentiment and mindset than “there needs to be a change in the coaching to get over that last hump, a Super Bowl”.

If you can’t tell the difference, that is YOUR problem, and goes to the heart of why I do not value your posts or your “shoot from the hip” silliness.

[notacon]

McDermott should absolutely NOT be on the hot seat, but he will be. Last year was unprecedented in what the team went through on and off the field and a lot of teams would have crumbled.

Having said that, he is putting a lot of pressure on himself by taking over the defense AND continuing to support Dorsey. If the defense regresses and the offense continues to be unoriginal, predictable, and ineffective, McD will have to answer for it.

We have superstars on both sides of the ball. Hopefully the coaches DO take their opinions on game day into consideration. A leader who is humble enough to know their way isn’t always the right way is a great trait to have. We’ll see where McD stands after this season.

I had that same sentiment just a week or so ago.

The very recent reporting of the speculation (by Michael Lombardi…not sure if I believe him but he is an experienced and credible analyst and deserves respect) that McDermott took over defensive play calling in the 13 second debacle and the terrible way he handled the whole Diggs drama….plus WHY there is a Digg’s drama in the first place is new information which raises the discomfort level in confidence of the head coach.

The kickoff boneheaded decision which caused the 13 second melt down was reported in Go Long, but not widely reported or noticed in the national media.

The Diggs drams IS.

And that drama was the basis for Lombardi’s (again, I believe it is speculation and not any information gleaned from a source within the Bills…unlike the Tyler Dunn article) speculation of McD taking over defensive play calling during the 13 seconds....not a good look for a HC.

I do not think McDermott is “on the hot seat”….YET. But the last week’s reporting has raised a LOT of questions.

I still believe that McDermott can and still has the very credible chance of wiping away all the doubts and questions by delivering the expectation of the Bills who have all the pieces to not only get to, but win the SB THIS YEAR.

[notacon]

It was a difficult season with this team. Part of McDermott’s job is to get these guys to block that all out and focus on football, but that task may have well been insurmountable last year.

I think my biggest concern with McDermott is that I just didn’t see the swagger and fire in this team like I did the two years prior. It was almost like they were going through the motions a lot of times and either didn’t care or didn’t have any energy.

That playoff games to the Bengals was embarrassing. Either the toll of the year was truly too much and we couldn’t overcome it or we’ve lost something and better figure it out pretty quick.


How steep was it? We finished the last 8 games 7-1. Josh was not at 100% after the 1st Jets game. That was the biggest factor in any falloff in the 2nd half


Both good observations.

It was an unprecedented tough sequence of events last year. But, as Bill Cody observes, the Bills battled and scraped and STILL finished the regular season with seven straight wins.

I’m not sure if the Hamlin heart attack in the Cincy game can ever be realized as to how profound of an effect it had…on top of all the other extreme challenges.

This events have a way of accumulating….resulting in the emotional state of the whole team very fragile.

McDermott did a fantastic job in the aftermath of the Hamlin tragedy, but here is only so much a head coach (or anyone for that matter) can do.

The start of the Cincy playoff game seemed to be the straw that broke the back of the Bills…they simply ran out of gas.

Thankfully, every season starts fresh, with a new team….more than 28% of the (projected) 53 man roster will be new faces.

This is the test and “Either the toll of the year was truly too much and we couldn’t overcome it or we’ve lost something and better figure it out pretty quick.” Is a very valid question.

Time for not only McDermott, but the LEADERS on this team to step up and drag the team to a higher level…that other gear.

In so many ways, Bill Cody has got it spot on….


People misunderstand Diggs. He's not your typical diva WR. Yeah he's a diva but all top WR's are. But he's not all about his own stats. The guy wants to WIN. I love that about him. He's as competitive as they come. And damnit they should listen to what he has to say, he knows exactly what he's doing. Getting him the ball more is a no brainer. He has hands like a venus fly trap.

Josh is the same kind of cat. Even in the Cincy debacle, Josh played his ****ing heart out.

Learning from last year’s experience….and disappointments….is exactly what the team needs....and is more likely than not to happen.

[OpIv37]

McD is by far the best coach we've had since Levy (although that's not saying a whole lot).

But I'm starting to have my doubts. I'm starting to think he may be a really good coach but not a great coach. He definitely overachieved in the year he broke the drought and in making the AFCCG in 2020, but the '21 and '22 squads were better and he couldn't even equal the '20 feat. One could argue that '22 wasn't his fault due to the extremely unlikely amount of adversity that the team faced during that season, but adversity is no excuse for having zero answers for Cincy in the playoffs.

[Kenny]

How steep was it? We finished the last 8 games 7-1. Josh was not at 100% after the 1st Jets game. That was the biggest factor in any falloff in the 2nd half

Pretty steep when you compare how we started the season. Sure we lost against the fins, but I figure that's more of the heat and stupid stadium design where we were playing in 120F+ weather. But we destroyed other teams and beat KC in their own house (again).

- Then starting in the second half of the packers game, we got completely man handled... but won
- lost against the Jets (offense didnt do anything here)
- lost against the vikings (stupid mistakes)
- had trouble beating the browns (led by a backup QB)
- won against a Lions team that we honestly didnt deserve winning (we'll take it of course)
- beat the Patriots which was led by Stidham? (probably the only convincing win we had since the bye week)
- beat the Jets... but that was more on Milano completely wrecking Mike White
- beat the Fins... we looked terrible for 3 quarters. Then Josh puts on 'god mode' when the snow starts in Q4
- beat the Bears. Good final score, but it was a nail biter - we were losing going into the second half against one of the worst teams in the league
- didnt finish the Bengals game, though our defense looked clueless
- beat the Pats (Mac Jones sucks).

So yeah, I agree getting the win is the most important part and Im going to say on record no team will dominate every single game (like we did before the bye week). Hell, even the Chiefs needed OT to beat the Texans. But contenders shouldnt struggle the way we did every single week.

[sukie]

Biggest difference was play calling. Dorsey was crazy good first game outta the gate. Mixing it up. It was dominant. After that first Miami game he was homerun balling it… sometimes on successive plays. Middle of field left unused.

route Trees really long.

[JoeMama]

Diggs had 1,429 receiving yards, 108 receptions, 154 total targets, and a career high 11 touchdowns in 2022.

He can't possibly be disgruntled about a lack of involvement.

If there's anything he's mad about behind the scenes, it's that he wants to advance beyond the divisional round of the playoffs. Like we all do.

[notacon]

Diggs had 1,429 receiving yards, 108 receptions, 154 total targets, and a career high 11 touchdowns in 2022.

He can't possibly be disgruntled about a lack of involvement.

If there's anything he's mad about behind the scenes, it's that he wants to advance beyond the divisional round of the playoffs. Like we all do.

Sure he can....and would be fully justified in doing so.

As was quoted from the Boston Globe article (https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/06/17/sports/stefon-diggs-bills/?event=event12) that was the basis for this thread....



At first glance it’s hard to see how the Bills could get Diggs more opportunities. His stats last year all ranked in the top five in the NFL — 154 targets, 108 catches, 1,429 yards, and 11 touchdowns. Since joining the Bills for the 2020 season, Diggs is top six in all of those stats, and his 484 targets rank second behind only Davante Adams.

But a closer look does reveal a few reasons for Diggs to be upset. Over the last six games in 2023, including two playoff games, Diggs caught just one touchdown pass and averaged a meager 63 receiving yards. per game. In the playoff loss to the Bengals, a listless, blowout defeat at home, Diggs had just four catches for 35 yards.

[JoeMama]

But a closer look does reveal a few reasons for Diggs to be upset. Over the last six games in 2023, including two playoff games, Diggs caught just one touchdown pass and averaged a meager 63 receiving yards. per game. In the playoff loss to the Bengals, a listless, blowout defeat at home, Diggs had just four catches for 35 yards.

Right but Josh Allen was clearly diminished and playing well below capacity after he his sprained UCL in November.

To Josh's credit, he never blamed the UCL sprain, but you could tell the pain and the drop in production was almost entirely due to the injury.

We gotta keep him healthy and upright this year and I'm sure Diggs will have no cause for complaint.

[sukie]

Right but Josh Allen was clearly diminished and playing well below capacity after he his sprained UCL in November.

To Josh's credit, he never blamed the UCL sprain, but you could tell the pain and the drop in production was almost entirely due to the injury.

We gotta keep him healthy and upright this year and I'm sure Diggs will have no cause for complaint.

There needs to be a bad weather playbook. Shorten it up quicken the pace methodically move. Waiting for a receiver to get down field in crappy weather is a disaster.

[Bill Cody]

Pretty steep when you compare how we started the season. Sure we lost against the fins, but I figure that's more of the heat and stupid stadium design where we were playing in 120F+ weather. But we destroyed other teams and beat KC in their own house (again).

- Then starting in the second half of the packers game, we got completely man handled... but won
- lost against the Jets (offense didnt do anything here)
- lost against the vikings (stupid mistakes)
- had trouble beating the browns (led by a backup QB)
- won against a Lions team that we honestly didnt deserve winning (we'll take it of course)
- beat the Patriots which was led by Stidham? (probably the only convincing win we had since the bye week)
- beat the Jets... but that was more on Milano completely wrecking Mike White
- beat the Fins... we looked terrible for 3 quarters. Then Josh puts on 'god mode' when the snow starts in Q4
- beat the Bears. Good final score, but it was a nail biter - we were losing going into the second half against one of the worst teams in the league
- didnt finish the Bengals game, though our defense looked clueless
- beat the Pats (Mac Jones sucks).

So yeah, I agree getting the win is the most important part and Im going to say on record no team will dominate every single game (like we did before the bye week). Hell, even the Chiefs needed OT to beat the Texans. But contenders shouldnt struggle the way we did every single week.

I don't know what to tell you other than the most important player on our team wasn't fully healthy. His play was the difference. And losing Von. Both had snowball effects. Fact.

[Bill Cody]

There needs to be a bad weather playbook. Shorten it up quicken the pace methodically move. Waiting for a receiver to get down field in crappy weather is a disaster.

Even good weather I think you're on to something. Get the ball out quicker and run between the tackles more. Adding Harris will help. Adding Torrence will help. Adding Kincaid will help. I have high hopes for a jump from Shakir.

[Mr. Pink]

Why don’t you post what I actually said, based on what you actually said in full context???

I did not, in this thread or any other, agree with you that "maybe (I suspect that you did NOT use the qualifier “maybe” in what I objected to at the time...THAT’S why actual quotes in full context are critical...YOU have to prove it to be credible) there needs to be a change in the coaching to get over that last hump, a Super Bowl”.

What is more likely is that you put our your usual declarative statement “like “Edmunds sucks” or “Edmunds is a bust” and many others goofy and silly opinions....and said in a definitive declaration that "there needs to be a change in the coaching to get over that last hump, a Super Bowl”.

THAT is a totally different premise when the word “maybe” is taken out.

With that said, it’s more like you are agreeing with what I am saying NOW...which is based on recent reported events (and reporting of what transpired in the dumb 13 second kickoff debacle) that was published in March 2022, which I did not even read until September 2022 when I subscribed to Tyler Dunn’s Go Long....and did so to get access to that article.




No, unlike you, I can formulate my own opinion on a player/team/coach. Likely because I actually watch the games, whereas it's been proven time and time again you do not. I do not need some sports writer to tell me what my opinion should be, which is your complete M.O.

Now that some sports writer is questioning the long term viability of McDermott as HC, you're finally starting to come around to it. Meanwhile a few of us around here have been saying that a change might need to happen.

But you let some more sports writers tell you what your opinion should be. Can't wait to see the Joe B article where he says McDermott should be replaced and you'll be regurgitating that to the rooftops as if it's your own original thought.

[Joe Fo Sho]

McDermott is better than any coach we've had over the last 25 years or so, and if he doesn't make it to the Superbowl he should be fired.

[Mr. Pink]

There needs to be a bad weather playbook. Shorten it up quicken the pace methodically move. Waiting for a receiver to get down field in crappy weather is a disaster.

Except it's not.

In that playoff game the Bengals had many long developing pass plays that worked.

Burrow threw the ball 25 yards in the air to Chase for one TD. 23 yards in the air to Hurst for another TD. Forty yards in the air to Higgins which set up a penalty and kept a drive alive that led to the Bengals final score a FG and a 27-10 advantage and ultimately a win.

You don't need a "bad weather playbook" or to shorten it up...the Bengals didn't against us and it worked just fine. Why? Because they executed and we looked like a team that didn't even want to be on the field.

[Mr. Pink]

McDermott is better than any coach we've had over the last 25 years or so, and if he doesn't make it to the Superbowl he should be fired.

I'm guessing you're being sarcastic with this post and I know others think similarly so....

The Broncos couldn't win a Super Bowl with Dan Reeves, he got fired, they won with Mike Shanahan.

The Bucs couldn't win a Super Bowl with Tony Dungy, he got fired, the next year Gruden won a Super Bowl with them.

Marty Schottenheimer couldn't get any team over the hump to a Super Bowl but was a contender every year, and still got fired by 4 franchises...the Browns, Chiefs, Chargers and Redskins.

This isn't just limited to the NFL as franchises in all professional sports do this to try and get over the hump.

So are we a professional franchise or do we just keep McDermott because he made us relevant after 20 years?

[Joe Fo Sho]

I'm guessing you're being sarcastic with this post and I know others think similarly so....

The Broncos couldn't win a Super Bowl with Dan Reeves, he got fired, they won with Mike Shanahan.

The Bucs couldn't win a Super Bowl with Tony Dungy, he got fired, the next year Gruden won a Super Bowl with them.

Marty Schottenheimer couldn't get any team over the hump to a Super Bowl but was a contender every year, and still got fired by 4 franchises...the Browns, Chiefs, Chargers and Redskins.

This isn't just limited to the NFL as franchises in all professional sports do this to try and get over the hump.

So are we a professional franchise or do we just keep McDermott because he made us relevant after 20 years?

I was being serious. Both of my statements are true...you can be good, but not good enough. I'm tired of the Bills falling short. We have a good roster, we have Josh Allen, we have no excuse.

[Goobylal]

I'm guessing you're being sarcastic with this post and I know others think similarly so....

The Broncos couldn't win a Super Bowl with Dan Reeves, he got fired, they won with Mike Shanahan.

The Bucs couldn't win a Super Bowl with Tony Dungy, he got fired, the next year Gruden won a Super Bowl with them.

Marty Schottenheimer couldn't get any team over the hump to a Super Bowl but was a contender every year, and still got fired by 4 franchises...the Browns, Chiefs, Chargers and Redskins.

This isn't just limited to the NFL as franchises in all professional sports do this to try and get over the hump.

So are we a professional franchise or do we just keep McDermott because he made us relevant after 20 years?

He was saying what you're saying. If McD doesn't make it to the SB, he's gone.

[Mr. Pink]

I was being serious. Both of my statements are true...you can be good, but not good enough. I'm tired of the Bills falling short. We have a good roster, we have Josh Allen, we have no excuse.

Looking back on things, McDermott should have been fired after the 13 seconds debacle to be frankly honest.

[Goobylal]

Looking back on things, McDermott should have been fired after the 13 seconds debacle to be frankly honest.

No, Frazier should have been demoted because he was the play-caller. It's a year later but better late than never.

[DraftBoy]

Right but Josh Allen was clearly diminished and playing well below capacity after he his sprained UCL in November.

To Josh's credit, he never blamed the UCL sprain, but you could tell the pain and the drop in production was almost entirely due to the injury.

We gotta keep him healthy and upright this year and I'm sure Diggs will have no cause for complaint.

If Josh was that hurt then you’re arguing that his injury was so bad that it inhibited our offense to a point that it lessened our ability to win. Which would mean there are far more serious questions to ask of this staff than just what’s up with Diggs.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Looking back on things, McDermott should have been fired after the 13 seconds debacle to be frankly honest.


No, Frazier should have been demoted because he was the play-caller. It's a year later but better late than never.

SOMETHING should've happened after the 13 second debacle. Whether we fired McDermott, fired Frazier, demoted Frazier, called out someone publicly...SOMETHING should've happened. Anything other than nothing...but that's what happened. It should have been a wake up call. If you're going to preach about accountability, then someone should've been held accountable for that.

[TigerJ]

I think I recall something being said in the local sports media in the past about the Bills listening to their players when if comes to shaping the offense. It's not that the players would ever be calling plays, but they would have a voice in play design based on what the players (primarily skill position players) liked to do and felt their skills were best suited to do.

[Goobylal]

SOMETHING should've happened after the 13 second debacle. Whether we fired McDermott, fired Frazier, demoted Frazier, called out someone publicly...SOMETHING should've happened. Anything other than nothing...but that's what happened. It should have been a wake up call. If you're going to preach about accountability, then someone should've been held accountable for that.

What happened is they signed Von Miller.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I honestly was done with McDermott after they came out flat and frankly not interested in playing a playoff game against Cincinnati. And barely beating skylar Thompson at home the week before

[jamze132]

I think I recall something being said in the local sports media in the past about the Bills listening to their players when if comes to shaping the offense. It's not that the players would ever be calling plays, but they would have a voice in play design based on what the players (primarily skill position players) liked to do and felt their skills were best suited to do.

If that’s true, that’s a great sign of McD’s leadership.

[MikeInRoch]

The amount of complaints after a team went 13-3, losing those 3 by a COMBINED 8 points, is astounding to me.

[Mr. Pink]

If Josh was that hurt then you’re arguing that his injury was so bad that it inhibited our offense to a point that it lessened our ability to win. Which would mean there are far more serious questions to ask of this staff than just what’s up with Diggs.

I take it as a clear indictment on how bad Case Keenum actually is.

Past two seasons he's been in the league, the starting QB in front of him has obviously been hurt to the point where they are a detriment and he still cannot see the field.

Which begs the question because we saw him not be able to see the field when Baker Mayfield was hurt, why did we trade for him to begin with?

At least we moved on from him quickly so some other team can end up not having any confidence in their backup.

[FanBack]

You know if you told me before last season that Hyde would be gone in week 2, Von would be gone after Thanksgiving and Tre White would be a liability in coverage for the playoffs - I would have thought 'wild card round bounce'. At. Best.

[Typ0]

If that’s true, that’s a great sign of McD’s leadership.

Looking more likely this is a manipulative ploy to make the players believe they have input when they really don't. McDermott seems to do a lot of BS lip service to different things he doesn't really understand and/or have any real commitment to. He wants them to perform at their best so he gaslights them in hopes he can control how they perform -- and ends up driving them right into the sewar which is exactly what happens under that type of leadership.

[Goobylal]

I honestly was done with McDermott after they came out flat and frankly not interested in playing a playoff game against Cincinnati. And barely beating skylar Thompson at home the week before

Josh had 3 turnovers in that game that directly led to 18 points.

[notacon]

No, unlike you, I can formulate my own opinion on a player/team/coach. Likely because I actually watch the games, whereas it's been proven time and time again you do not. I do not need some sports writer to tell me what my opinion should be, which is your complete M.O.

Now that some sports writer is questioning the long term viability of McDermott as HC, you're finally starting to come around to it. Meanwhile a few of us around here have been saying that a change might need to happen.

But you let some more sports writers tell you what your opinion should be. Can't wait to see the Joe B article where he says McDermott should be replaced and you'll be regurgitating that to the rooftops as if it's your own original thought.

:rofl: The usual arrogant, condescending baloney I’ve come to except from your vapid posts.. Whenever a poster writes “... because I actually watch the games, whereas it's been proven time and time again you do not. “ I know they are totally full of **** and pulling the same out of their egotistical ass.

The fact is that I form my opinions based on facts and evidence. You bloviate baloney that is conjured up in your own brain where you know a LOT less about football than you think you do.

Most of your posts have me valuing your opinion less and less and less. Hubris is ugly, and you have TONS of it.

[sukie]

Notty. Joe B is the point of Genesis of your alignment in opinion. Stop it.

[Mr. Pink]

The amount of complaints after a team went 13-3, losing those 3 by a COMBINED 8 points, is astounding to me.

Yeah, because in the real world firing a coach after that kind of season never happens, right?

Oh wait, Marty Schottenheimer led the Chargers to a 14-2 record, lost in the divisional round and...got fired. The two losses? A combined 6 points.

[notacon]

If that’s true, that’s a great sign of McD’s leadership.

It can be true that McDermott shows many signs of being a “great leader”, but also show some signs of being a “bad leader”.

No one is even close to perfect, and I’m more than willing to give McDermott the benefit of the doubt (not that it matters since he is the HC and will be the HC for this season and probably many more to come).

The whole Diggs drama looks really, really bad for McDermott...not Diggs. McDermott ****ed up almost everything surrounding this. Why in the world did it take until JUNE 2023 to resolve (or even address) any issues with Diggs???? Was hje just ignoring it??? Did they communicate during the five freakin months since the end of the season??? Was there any combination with Diggs when he missed the voluntary OTA’S???


These are extremely critical questions...and goes to the heart of his “leadership” skill and ability.
I am not like some that opine that if the Bills do not get to the SB this year he should be fired. That’s WAY to premature. How this season unfolds with all the ups and downs a a NFL season, and especially the playoffs...win or lose....is what he should be judged on.

If Josh Allen goes down with abad injury is it still valid to simply fire McD?? Of course not. This is what I think....

There is no reason to feel comfortable with the team’s head coach right now. He could quell all of that doubt with a season that lives up to the expectations and the stellar quality of the roster....and especially an uber-elite QB and elite WR.

[notacon]

Notty. Joe B is the point of Genesis of your alignment in opinion. Stop it.

NO, he is not. He just happens to the the most prolific beat writer of the highest degree skill and professionalism. Whose articles are very well written and very quotable. Way, WAY better than about 99% of the blowhard armchair QB's and armchair coaches and armchair GM’s that populate social media.

Almost ALL of my opinions come out of my own head based on a myriad of different inputs like watching the game (and also watching some All 22 film), and reading a WIDE range of football experts in all kinds of publications and media sources. Yeah....real professionals that play the game, or used to play the game or are other NFL professionals.

I make NO apologies for quoting professional experts (of all kinds) that have exponentially more football knowledge than 99% of the posters here.

The whining about me presenting actual bona fide experts is just an excuse for posters that cannot refute what I write on the merits. That’s your problem...not mine.

If you don’t like it...put me on ignore. I really don’t give two ****s.

[notacon]

You know if you told me before last season that Hyde would be gone in week 2, Von would be gone after Thanksgiving and Tre White would be a liability in coverage for the playoffs - I would have thought 'wild card round bounce'. At. Best.

Don’t forget, Greg Rousseau and Von Miller played in the same full game for only the first SEVEN GAMES....that the Bills went 6-1.

Rousseau was injured early in week #9 (the Bills 8th game) vs the Jets (only 14 snaps) and by the time he came back from his high ankle injury (which effected him for the rest of the season), vs Detroit, Von Miller was out for the year during that game.

The reality is that the Bills were missing three of their very best defensive players for most of the season. Another, Poyer. was struggling with injuries all season long.

STILL the defense performed at an extremely high level. Unlike the offense which simply did not for too many games and too many times when needed most.

[sukie]

Except it's not.

In that playoff game the Bengals had many long developing pass plays that worked.

Burrow threw the ball 25 yards in the air to Chase for one TD. 23 yards in the air to Hurst for another TD. Forty yards in the air to Higgins which set up a penalty and kept a drive alive that led to the Bengals final score a FG and a 27-10 advantage and ultimately a win.

You don't need a "bad weather playbook" or to shorten it up...the Bengals didn't against us and it worked just fine. Why? Because they executed and we looked like a team that didn't even want to be on the field.
Yes they do need a bad weather playbook. It matters not what the Bengals did… Buffalo could not hit the home run ball. Diggs was taken out. No passes to RB over the middle. No quick slants… everything in Dorsey’s PB was sideline stuff. Whenever they did dial up a play between the hash marks… success. Then back to outside and deep routes.

Bills had zero pass rush. Another factor which gave Burrow time. Bengals WR better than Buffalo’s. Draw up plays for your personnel land not the hi light reel.

[Skooby]

Josh losing his GF that day blew the last playoff game, the selfish B-itch couldn’t have waited. Yeah he porked a bartender, a potential future politician in NY.

[Goobylal]

Josh losing his GF that day blew the last playoff game, the selfish B-itch couldn’t have waited. Yeah he porked a bartender, a potential future politician in NY.

You have this on good authority?

[Goobylal]

I realize the "potential future politician" was in reference to AOC.

[Mr. Pink]

Yes they do need a bad weather playbook. It matters not what the Bengals did… Buffalo could not hit the home run ball. Diggs was taken out. No passes to RB over the middle. No quick slants… everything in Dorsey’s PB was sideline stuff. Whenever they did dial up a play between the hash marks… success. Then back to outside and deep routes.

Bills had zero pass rush. Another factor which gave Burrow time. Bengals WR better than Buffalo’s. Draw up plays for your personnel land not the hi light reel.

It comes down to execution. The Bengals executed and we did not. Who's to say they would have executed a "bad weather" playbook properly?

Or, that the Bengals then would just sit down on every route, make all the short throws contested and hero ball Josh showed up throwing multiple INTs.

Offenses have the advantage in bad weather games if they execute...unless you're talking bad weather like the Browns Bills game or the Colts Bills game where it's just miserable for everyone. But put a game in weather like that playoff game and you see the difference in when a team executes on offense and when they don't.

[Typ0]

They don't need a bad weather playbook that is even more complicated. What they need is a playbook with structure that is easier to digest...and someone calling the right plays.

[notacon]

Well...with the news that both Beane and McDermott have been extended through the 2027 season, it’s now fact that the ONLY person who matters, Terry Pegula, has extreme confidence in both of them, does not think the “Bills have a Sean McDermott problem” and is comfortable with their leadership.

I’m content with this since the Bills have never been in better hands....the combination of owner, GM & head coach is the best in the teams 63 year history. Sure, as fans, we will always question pretty much everything they decide to do...as is our duty as loyal fans.

But, this pretty much puts an end to the subject.

[Mr. Pink]

Well...with the news that both Beane and McDermott have been extended through the 2027 season,
But, this pretty much puts an end to the subject.

And it pretty much puts an end to the Bills winning a Super Bowl in the next 4 years.

Oh happy days.

[daryls61]

Bills have been changing coaches and GM's for years now and it has been a disaster. Stay the course. Smart move.

[notacon]

And it pretty much puts an end to the Bills winning a Super Bowl in the next 4 years.

Oh happy days.

:lolabove: :bs:

[jamze132]

And it pretty much puts an end to the Bills winning a Super Bowl in the next 4 years.

Oh happy days.

I like our chances more than at any point since Levy retired. I seriously do not understand how you’re unhappy with the way things are right now. Perennial contention still isn’t good enough for some fans…???

[DraftBoy]

I like our chances more than at any point since Levy retired. I seriously do not understand how you’re unhappy with the way things are right now. Perennial contention still isn’t good enough for some fans…???

No.

[YardRat]

The amount of complaints after a team went 13-3, losing those 3 by a COMBINED 8 points, is astounding to me.

A third consecutive embarrassing loss in the playoffs.


You know if you told me before last season that Hyde would be gone in week 2, Von would be gone after Thanksgiving and Tre White would be a liability in coverage for the playoffs - I would have thought 'wild card round bounce'. At. Best.
It was thisclose to being just that. If Miami wasn't playing their third team scrub QB it most likely would have been.

[Goobylal]

A third consecutive embarrassing loss in the playoffs.


It was thisclose to being just that. If Miami wasn't playing their third team scrub QB it most likely would have been.

Josh had 3 turnovers in that game that led to 18 Miami points. If they lost it would have been on that/him.

[Mr. Pink]

I like our chances more than at any point since Levy retired. I seriously do not understand how you’re unhappy with the way things are right now. Perennial contention still isn’t good enough for some fans…???

Once you get there you have to be able to take the next step.

We can't even get into the big game, let alone win it.

Marty Schottenheimer teams were perennial contenders...he still got fired.

Tony Dungy had the Bucs as a perennial contender and still got fired.

This is what happens at this level. The ultimate goal is a championship and we're just stuck spinning our wheels at top 3 team in the AFC year after year. And by extending Beane and McDermott, yes they can be bought out, doesn't signal from me that our owner cares about taking that next step.

[jamze132]

Which HC is going to get the Bills over the hump then? You guys are going to whine if it’s not a big name vet HC, and even then it’s no guarantee it would work out.

We’ve got a good thing going right now and our roster has improved from last year.

[John Doe]

Lets say we got rid of McD and Beane and the next few seasons the team does not make the playoffs and the new guys have to go.

How many fans would say that it was worth the effort of getting rid of what we have now?

[Mr. Pink]

Lets say we got rid of McD and Beane and the next few seasons the team does not make the playoffs and the new guys have to go.

How many fans would say that it was worth the effort of getting rid of what we have now?

All of them should, because lets be real here, losing in the divisional round of the playoffs isn't any better than not making the playoffs.

The eyes should be on the ultimate prize and not just be complacent that we can make the playoffs now so that's good enough because our team was a dumpster fire for 20 years.

Eventually the honeymoon period of just making the playoffs is going to wear off, it just takes some people longer to get to that than others. And if Pegula waits another 5-7 years of status quo then we are going to waste Josh Allen's career and our best chance at a Super Bowl title, because let's be honest Allen is better than Kelly.

[notacon]

Once you get there you have to be able to take the next step.

We can't even get into the big game, let alone win it.

Marty Schottenheimer teams were perennial contenders...he still got fired.

Tony Dungy had the Bucs as a perennial contender and still got fired.

This is what happens at this level. The ultimate goal is a championship and we're just stuck spinning our wheels at top 3 team in the AFC year after year. And by extending Beane and McDermott, yes they can be bought out, doesn't signal from me that our owner cares about taking that next step.
What warped and lame logic.

Every year multiple HC get fired and quit. Probably close to an average of five per year. Hundreds since 1967 for all kinds of reasons.

And all you can come up with is two isolated examples to prove....what kind of irrelevant point?!?!?

Thankfully Terry Pegula is WAY, WAY smarter than you.

Please. Give it up.....you are embarrassing yourself.

[Goobylal]

All of them should, because lets be real here, losing in the divisional round of the playoffs isn't any better than not making the playoffs.

The eyes should be on the ultimate prize and not just be complacent that we can make the playoffs now so that's good enough because our team was a dumpster fire for 20 years.

Eventually the honeymoon period of just making the playoffs is going to wear off, it just takes some people longer to get to that than others. And if Pegula waits another 5-7 years of status quo then we are going to waste Josh Allen's career and our best chance at a Super Bowl title, because let's be honest Allen is better than Kelly.

Is that supposed to be a joke or real?

[DraftBoy]

Lets say we got rid of McD and Beane and the next few seasons the team does not make the playoffs and the new guys have to go.

How many fans would say that it was worth the effort of getting rid of what we have now?

If they can’t win it all then what are you keeping them for exactly? If it can’t work then you move on. Same thing if the another regime fails. On to the next one.

[John Doe]

If they can’t win it all then what are you keeping them for exactly? If it can’t work then you move on. Same thing if the another regime fails. On to the next one.

Who knows if they can or cannot win it all? Are you declaring that as fact? If you think that you can make that call, then good for you. It does not mean that you are right.

McD has gotten us to the playoffs consistently. If you get in, you have a chance no matter what you or anyone else thinks.

[DraftBoy]

Who knows if they can or cannot win it all? Are you declaring that as fact? If you think that you can make that call, then good for you. It does not mean that you are right.

McD has gotten us to the playoffs consistently. If you get in, you have a chance no matter what you or anyone else thinks.

Getting into the playoffs simply isn’t enough. Never will be.

[swiper]

Getting into the playoffs simply isn’t enough. Never will be.

Wow. Kay Stephenson called. He asked that you wake the **** up.

[John Doe]

Getting into the playoffs simply isn’t enough. Never will be.
Can't get to the Superbowl if you don't get in the playoffs.

[swiper]

Can't get to the Superbowl if you don't get in the playoffs.

Or you can make it to the Super Bowl 4 years in a row and lose all of them.

[DraftBoy]

Can't get to the Superbowl if you don't get in the playoffs.

We apparently can’t get there even when we make the playoffs. If that happens again this year at what point do we admit that maybe it’s not the usual scapegoats?

[John Doe]

We apparently can’t get there even when we make the playoffs. If that happens again this year at what point do we admit that maybe it’s not the usual scapegoats?

You have obviously reached that point already.

I have not.

[DraftBoy]

You have obviously reached that point already.

I have not.

My question is why not? What is it about simply making the playoffs that is more acceptable then demanding this team achieve the ultimate goal of winning a Super Bowl?

[swiper]

We apparently can’t get there even when we make the playoffs. If that happens again this year at what point do we admit that maybe it’s not the usual scapegoats?

It's June and the sky is falling already. At what point do you just enjoy watching the games?

[John Doe]

My question is why not? What is it about simply making the playoffs that is more acceptable then demanding this team achieve the ultimate goal of winning a Super Bowl?

When did you stop beating your wife?

Your demands won't get the Bills a superbowl.

[DraftBoy]

When did you stop beating your wife?

Your demands won't get the Bills a superbowl.

You’re avoiding the question.

And I never said they would, but that doesn’t mean I lower my demands ever.

[DraftBoy]

It's June and the sky is falling already. At what point do you just enjoy watching the games?

Every time they play and when the game is over win or lose that’s it. The celebration of victory or anguish of defeat only lasts a few seconds beyond the final whistle.

[jamze132]

Getting into the playoffs simply isn’t enough. Never will be.

You do realize there are other teams trying to win the Super Bowl too right? You do realize there are very good QBs on other teams right? You do realize that there are literally 4-5 teams that have a legit shot every season and we’re one of them right? Of course you don’t.

I didn’t even mention all the adversity this team faced on and off the field last year, but you fail to realize that too…

[YardRat]

Who knows if they can or cannot win it all? Are you declaring that as fact? If you think that you can make that call, then good for you. It does not mean that you are right.

McD has gotten us to the playoffs consistently. If you get in, you have a chance no matter what you or anyone else thinks.

Eventually your resume' represents who you are. "Who knows if Hue Jackson can't win a Super Bowl, is that a fact? He has to win a couple of games eventually, doesn't he?"

Coaches have had to move on to win a championship, most notably guys like Reid...Dungy...Vermeil...even Belichek. The first two examples also have their former teams winning it all after they left...Dungy/Tampa immediately.

I'm glad they extended both and am not in the 'fire them now' camp at all, but this is year 7...year 6 with arguably the best player and most dangerous offensive weapon in the league, in his prime...at what many consider the most important position in all sports not just football. If they can't do any better in the next couple of years than they have in the last seven it's definitely going to be time for a change of scenery.

[John Doe]

You’re avoiding the question.

And I never said they would, but that doesn’t mean I lower my demands ever.
Next time you beat your wife, give her a few shots for me.

The more times you reach the playoffs, the more chances you have at the superbowl. I can't dumb it down any lower for you.

[notacon]

Getting into the playoffs simply isn’t enough. Never will be.

What perverse rubbish.

How can you even consider yourself a “fan”??? Of ANY team, EVER?!?!?!?

32 teams....one champion a year.

12 teams have NEVER won a Super Bowl. 25 teams (including those that have never won) have not won a Super Bowl in 10 years or longer.

7 teams that HAVE won a Super Bowl have not won another in 20 YEARS or longer.

These teams with stellar histories (and have won at least one Supwr Bowl) have not won one in…

New York Jets – 54 years
Miami – 49 years
Raiders (Oakland, LA and LV) – 39 years
Chicago – 37 years
Washington 31 years
San Francisco – 28 years
Dallas – 27 years


There is a reason why no team has been a repeat SB winner in almost twenty years, and only two teams have been repeat winners in the 29 years of the modern cap era. And there has never been a winner three years in a row.

This is how the NFL is designed, and ALL the rules have evolved to further that goal.

As soon as the Bills finally DO win a Super Bowl, sourpusses will be whining about not winning back-to-back.

The mindset your are preaching is insufferable and is a set up for continual disappointment and lame bitterness.


I, personally, think it’s a very dumb mindset that ruins the enjoyment of the game....and it an attitude that should NEVER be taught to our kids who compete in any sports....or....actually.....for anything in life.

[DraftBoy]

You do realize there are other teams trying to win the Super Bowl too right? You do realize there are very good QBs on other teams right? You do realize that there are literally 4-5 teams that have a legit shot every season and we’re one of them right? Of course you don’t.

I didn’t even mention all the adversity this team faced on and off the field last year, but you fail to realize that too…

Ohhhh, so that’s why they don’t just hand us the Lombardi in July. Got it.

[DraftBoy]

Next time you beat your wife, give her a few shots for me.

The more times you reach the playoffs, the more chances you have at the superbowl. I can't dumb it down any lower for you.

And if you fail to reach the Super Bowl no matter how many shots, how long do you accept that for?

[John Doe]

And if you fail to reach the Super Bowl no matter how many shots, how long do you accept that for?
As long as McD keeps the team consistently in the playoffs, I am OK with him because that gives us a shot to win it all.

Sorry if that offends you.

[DraftBoy]

As long as McD keeps the team consistently in the playoffs, I am OK with him because that gives us a shot to win it all.

Sorry if that offends you.

Why would that offend me? It’s perfectly ok to disagree on standards for success.

[cookie G]

My question is why not? What is it about simply making the playoffs that is more acceptable then demanding this team achieve the ultimate goal of winning a Super Bowl?

I'm pretty sure everyone has the ultimate goal of winning the SB. The real question is: How do you get there?

What is the plan? And..."anyone else would be better" isn't the answer.

For every Gruden to Tampa or firing John Fox in Denver, there are multiples of franchises with a revolving door administration policy that never get there.

Miami has been through at 10 coaches in this century;
Oakland-Vegas at least that many;
Cleveland has too many to count;
The Jets have had 7 changes;
The Chargers - 6;
Prior to McDermott, the Bills had 8 coaches in 17 years.

That's just a sampling from the AFC.

Before you dump a coach who just won 13 games...under pretty bad circumstances...and dump a GM who has built one of the more complete rosters in the NFL...I'd really like to hear what people have in mind as a succession plan.

[DraftBoy]

I'm pretty sure everyone has the ultimate goal of winning the SB. The real question is: How do you get there?

What is the plan? And..."anyone else would be better" isn't the answer.

For every Gruden to Tampa or firing John Fox in Denver, there are multiples of franchises with a revolving door administration policy that never get there.

Miami has been through at 10 coaches in this century;
Oakland-Vegas at least that many;
Cleveland has too many to count;
The Jets have had 7 changes;
The Chargers - 6;
Prior to McDermott, the Bills had 8 coaches in 17 years.

That's just a sampling from the AFC.

Before you dump a coach who just won 13 games...under pretty bad circumstances...and dump a GM who has built one of the more complete rosters in the NFL...I'd really like to hear what people have in mind as a succession plan.

How you get there is by any means necessary. I haven’t really mentioned Beane, who I think has done a pretty good job for what it’s worth. Still has to lead to a title though.

[Mr. Pink]

Is that supposed to be a joke or real?

If your standard is just making the playoffs I can't help you.

We have a generational talent at QB, the most important position on the field, and we're flat out squandering him through timid poor coaching and a GM who cannot surround him with weapons.

[YardRat]

I'm pretty sure everyone has the ultimate goal of winning the SB. The real question is: How do you get there?

What is the plan? And..."anyone else would be better" isn't the answer.

For every Gruden to Tampa or firing John Fox in Denver, there are multiples of franchises with a revolving door administration policy that never get there.

Miami has been through at 10 coaches in this century;
Oakland-Vegas at least that many;
Cleveland has too many to count;
The Jets have had 7 changes;
The Chargers - 6;
Prior to McDermott, the Bills had 8 coaches in 17 years.

That's just a sampling from the AFC.

Before you dump a coach who just won 13 games...under pretty bad circumstances...and dump a GM who has built one of the more complete rosters in the NFL...I'd really like to hear what people have in mind as a succession plan.

The succession plan (if there isn't one in place already, and there should be) is to employ a very small staff, answerable only to Pegula and independent of the organization, to put together lists of candidates in the eventuality that the head coach/GM/both need to be replaced. Analyze the last three years' performance relative to specific metrics, updated and adapted as necessary moving forward for the next two years and be prepared to pull the trigger at that point, maybe sooner if things unexpectedly go south very quickly.

No different than the draft and free agency, if the owners don't have a 'big board' of their own they aren't doing their job.

[Goobylal]

If your standard is just making the playoffs I can't help you.

We have a generational talent at QB, the most important position on the field, and we're flat out squandering him through timid poor coaching and a GM who cannot surround him with weapons.

Sorry but in no universe is losing in the divisional round of the playoffs, much less given all the off- and on-field issues they had, the same as not making them. I agree that if the team misses the playoffs McD should be fired though.

[Mr. Pink]

Sorry but in no universe is losing in the divisional round of the playoffs, much less given all the off- and on-field issues they had, the same as not making them. I agree that if the team misses the playoffs McD should be fired though.

At this point it is.

Any season we don't get a championship with a generational talent behind center is a wasted season. And if we go Allen's entire career doing that it could be twenty years til we're relevant again.

[Historian]

Unless your plan is to hire Andy Reid or Bill Belicek.....

[Mr. Pink]

Unless your plan is to hire Andy Reid or Bill Belicek.....

Speaking of the two, they also got fired from the original jobs. Belichick's situation is a little different because of the team being moved and then getting fired.

No one in this league is untouchable when it comes to getting the axe if you can't get your team to the ultimate step.

My viewpoint on McDermott would be completely different right now if say 13 seconds never happened and we made it to the Super Bowl. Getting to the game buys you some time, in my opinion, to try and get there again and ultimately win it.

But the facts remain that we need a completely overhaul on our defensive philosophy as when it comes to playing the better teams in the league, the D looks awful. And we need some tweaking on the offensive philosophy so we're not so reliant on Josh Allen's legs. Those two things don't change with the current coaching staff. And it's clear that those two things aren't good enough to win a title.

[Goobylal]

Speaking of the two, they also got fired from the original jobs. Belichick's situation is a little different because of the team being moved and then getting fired.

No one in this league is untouchable when it comes to getting the axe if you can't get your team to the ultimate step.

My viewpoint on McDermott would be completely different right now if say 13 seconds never happened and we made it to the Super Bowl. Getting to the game buys you some time, in my opinion, to try and get there again and ultimately win it.

But the facts remain that we need a completely overhaul on our defensive philosophy as when it comes to playing the better teams in the league, the D looks awful. And we need some tweaking on the offensive philosophy so we're not so reliant on Josh Allen's legs. Those two things don't change with the current coaching staff. And it's clear that those two things aren't good enough to win a title.

We'll see if a complete overhaul of the D is necessary. Again he's taking-over play-calling.

As for 13 seconds, I think it saved the Bills from a(nother) SB defeat, assuming they got there. Once Tre White went down, the SB dream was over.

[notacon]

If your standard is just making the playoffs I can't help you.

We have a generational talent at QB, the most important position on the field, and we're flat out squandering him through timid poor coaching and a GM who cannot surround him with weapons.

If your standard is equating “losing in the divisional round” as “isn’t better than not making the playoffs” NO ONE can help you. You live in fantasy land.

That is a silly and moronic standard that is ignorant of reality and history.

I pointed out the facts in this post (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263420-Beane-and-McDermott-Extended-through-2027?p=5031291&viewfull=1#post5031291).

Winning a Super Bowl is the anomaly. Missing the playoffs relatively common.

Making the playoffs and NOT winning a Super Bowl is the overwhelming NORM (77%, of HC that DO make it to the playoffs NEVER won a Super Bowl).

[notacon]

At this point it is.

Any season we don't get a championship with a generational talent behind center is a wasted season. And if we go Allen's entire career doing that it could be twenty years til we're relevant again.

Another dumb standard.

There are several "generational talent behind center” today and throughout history whose teams never came close to winning a championship. Considering NOT winning a SB as a “wasted season”, with the reality that 31 teams are disappointed every year, it beggars the reason you consider yourself a “fan” of any NFL team.

Even the GOAT, Tom Brady, played for NE for twenty years, but only won the SB less than a third of those seasons. The other 13 seasons (without the one he was in injured) were “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Joe Montana played for 15 seasons...won only 4 SB’s....were the other 11 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Terry Bradshaw played for 14 seasons....won only 4 SB’s....were the other 10 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Troy Aikman played for 12 season....won only 3 SB’s....were the other 9 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Josh Elway played for 16 seasons....won only 2 SB’s....were the other 14 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Roger Staubach played for 11 seasons....won only 2 SB’s....were the other 9 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Bob Griese played for 14 seasons...won only 2 SB’s....were the other 12 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Jim Kelly played for 11 seasons....never won a SB....was his whole career of 11 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Peyton Manning played for 17 seasons....won only 2 SB’s....were the other 15 “wasted seasons”?!?!?


And on and on and on.

Not to mention some of the really, really great QBs that never even played in a SB like (among others):

Warren Moon
Dan Fouts
Phillip Rivers
Jim Hart
Randall Cunningham

Your “standard” is for crap.

[Mr. Pink]

Another dumb standard.

There are several "generational talent behind center” today and throughout history whose teams never came close to winning a championship. Considering NOT winning a SB as a “wasted season”, with the reality that 31 teams are disappointed every year, it beggars the reason you consider yourself a “fan” of any NFL team.

Even the GOAT, Tom Brady, played for NE for twenty years, but only won the SB less than a third of those seasons. The other 13 seasons (without the one he was in injured) were “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Joe Montana played for 15 seasons...won only 4 SB’s....were the other 11 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Terry Bradshaw played for 14 seasons....won only 4 SB’s....were the other 10 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Troy Aikman played for 12 season....won only 3 SB’s....were the other 9 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Josh Elway played for 16 seasons....won only 2 SB’s....were the other 14 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Roger Staubach played for 11 seasons....won only 2 SB’s....were the other 9 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Bob Griese played for 14 seasons...won only 2 SB’s....were the other 12 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Jim Kelly played for 11 seasons....never won a SB....was his whole career of 11 “wasted seasons”?!?!?

Peyton Manning played for 17 seasons....won only 2 SB’s....were the other 15 “wasted seasons”?!?!?


And on and on and on.

Not to mention some of the really, really great QBs that never even played in a SB like (among others):

Warren Moon
Dan Fouts
Phillip Rivers
Jim Hart
Randall Cunningham

Your “standard” is for crap.


What an asinine post.

The ultimate goal is winning a Super Bowl, so you try and play it off that there's 11 wasted years for Montana. He won the big game, he has rings as does the organization he played for. No one is saying that you have to win the Super Bowl every season, the point is winning it at all. And I will stand on this hill til the day McDermott is replaced, we will never win a title with him. And thus will waste years of Allen's career until we do decide to move on from him, if we even do because we're all, including management and ownership, complacent and content with just making the playoffs.

[notacon]

What an asinine post.

The ultimate goal is winning a Super Bowl, so you try and play it off that there's 11 wasted years for Montana. He won the big game, he has rings as does the organization he played for. No one is saying that you have to win the Super Bowl every season, the point is winning it at all. And I will stand on this hill til the day McDermott is replaced, we will never win a title with him. And thus will waste years of Allen's career until we do decide to move on from him, if we even do because we're all, including management and ownership, complacent and content with just making the playoffs.

You keep on proving my point....It’s amazing (but not surprising....the usual negativity from the usual anti-Bills suspects) that the biggest whiners and naysayers concerning McD come from so-called Bills “fans”.

[Mr. Pink]

You keep on proving my point....It’s amazing (but not surprising....the usual negativity from the usual anti-Bills suspects) that the biggest whiners and naysayers concerning McD come from so-called Bills “fans”.

When you have no way to counter a point at all just use the same comment in two different threads :rofl:

Now, quick, go find Joe B's opinion on the matter and post half the article!

[notacon]

When you have no way to counter a point at all just use the same comment in two different threads :rofl:

Now, quick, go find Joe B's opinion on the matter and post half the article!

So lame. Oh, I am going top keep on using that statement because it is SPOT ON!!!!!


The biggest question is, why are you so anti-Bills???? Your posts read exactly like we would get from our rival teams fans.

[cas22]

People misunderstand Diggs. He's not your typical diva WR. Yeah he's a diva but all top WR's are. But he's not all about his own stats. The guy wants to WIN. I love that about him. He's as competitive as they come. And damnit they should listen to what he has to say, he knows exactly what he's doing. Getting him the ball more is a no brainer. He has hands like a venus fly trap.

I wouldn't have any player on my team that doesn't want to win. saying he is different just doesn't cut it, Diggs is a Diva, he is closer to a player like Antonio Brown with his antic's... no player should have any input when it comes to the actual play calling on the feild, I do think players should be involved with play designs and routes and blocking schemes but not play calling.

we really don't know what Diggs ask for if he asked for anything,, I will say similar things happened when he was in Minny..... when things don't go his way he starts stuff and starts to point fingers at others... unfortunately we are not in the cap shape Minny was at that time or Diggs would be gone and D-Hop would be a Bill.