Time to face reality. Joe Burrow is better than Josh Allen

[BillsFanCupp38]

It pains me to say this but it's true. I can't stand burrow but this is the reality. Josh isn't good in high pressure games and burrow is. Burrow has been to the super bowl, Josh Allen hasn't. Burrow plays cool under pressure, Josh doesn't. Josh turns the ball over and burrow doesn't. Josh is relying on physical talent and burrow is relying on his understanding of the game. Burrow is better than Allen.

[OpIv37]

So many teams have surpassed us. Bengals are one of them

[BillsFanCupp38]

Yeah I think our year was probably 13 seconds. This thing needs to get blown up and start over. Probably 2 or three years from a legitimate shot at the super bowl. Don't get me wrong I think we can do it but not with these current core players.

[Novacane]

Maybe. Burrow has a better team around him and better coaching for sure.

[Mad Max]

I have faced the reality that Zac Taylor is a better HC than McDermott

[Novacane]

I have faced the reality that Zac Taylor is a better HC than McDermott



Agree. And Taylor is not very impressive!

[BillsFanCupp38]

Maybe. Burrow has a better team around him and better coaching for sure.

I would agree with that. That's probably why this thing needs to get blown up. We missed our shot. Need to get younger and cheaper.

[sahlensguy]

Oof

[Buffalogic]

Interesting to come away with this take with how the game played out.

[YardRat]

No argument. Still waiting for Josh to grow more after 13 seconds, and he hasn't.

[Woodman]

I have faced the reality that Zac Taylor is a better HC than McDermott

Is he or is his supporting cast better .... coaching staff and 3 very good WR's :idunno:

[Woodman]

Is he or is his supporting cast better .... coaching staff and 3 very good WR's :idunno:

When they lose either of the top 2 WR's Tee Higgins or Ja'Marr Chase they're pretty much done.

[Historian]

I disagree on the premise, and I think the problem again, is Dorsey.

Bombs away...every play.

Cinci plays a modified WCO, that dinks and dunks until they get single coverage...then boom.

On Josh's interception, Diggs was wide open underneath, would have been at least a 5-6 yard gain.

Nah, we throw the deep 25 yard out pattern, and there's nowhere to go with the ball.

[kingJofNYC]

I disagree on the premise, and I think the problem again, is Dorsey.

Bombs away...every play.

Cinci plays a modified WCO, that dinks and dunks until they get single coverage...then boom.

On Josh's interception, Diggs was wide open underneath, would have been at least a 5-6 yard gain.

Nah, we throw the deep 25 yard out pattern, and there's nowhere to go with the ball.

Josh is throwing shorter than ever in his recent career if you look at ADOT, average depth of target. So it's not Bombs away. I mean you are 100% right, Diggs was open on the Josh interception, it was a Stick concept. Slot WR routes an option route and outside wr goes up field to pull defenders. Josh pumped the short throw and threw it to Davis, he should have taken the easy yards like Tom was telling him to on podcast. There's a lot you can say about Dorsey's offense, I mean it's not even his offense, he's just calling the plays, but you can't blame him for the int. That was on Josh, he has the choice, throw the easy 5 yards, or try for a harder throw that was clearly taken away by the defender. That's what happens when we're down 14-7 and Josh starts to press, he takes more risks when it should be the opposite. Can't go broke picking up nickels.

[ParanoidAndroid]

That play to the outside to Davis has resulted in as many interceptions as completions. It's like they are baiting him and that pump fake to the short middle is a tell more than a fake.

Either do something else within that action or take it out of the playbook.

I'm on Team-Dorsey should have never been given the keys to this offense.

We were a Superbowl contender but now defenses have us pegged.

You can blame Josh for his tendencies but those tendencies won us a lot of games.

Enter the "please don't hurt yourself Josh" and the "this hasn't worked yet but I know it will" offense.

[kingJofNYC]

That play to the outside to Davis has resulted in as many interceptions as completions. It's like they are baiting him and that pump fake to the short middle is a tell more than a fake.

Either do something else within that action or take it out of the playbook.

I'm on Team-Dorsey should have never been given the keys to this offense.

We were a Superbowl contender but now defenses have us pegged.

You can blame Josh for his tendencies but those tendencies won us a lot of games.

Enter the "please don't hurt yourself Josh" and the "this hasn't worked yet but I know it will" offense.

Believe it or not that "play" was a staple play in Daboll's offense. With Beasley catch the short out option a lot, and every once in a while you'd hit the hole shot on the outside, but last night Josh forced it. It's a stick concept, it's a staple of this O whether you guys want to believe it or not, we just throw the short out instead of the dumb option Josh chose yesterday. Josh doesn't have that throw to Davis open very much because teams know, we will give them the "stick" and take away the downfield throw, Josh just chose wrong, **** happens.

[daryls61]

JA17 has not been the same since he got that bartender pregnant and his girlfriend dumped him. Now is is more interested in being Hollywood JA17 with his actress girlfriend than being QB1 for the Bills.

[notacon]

No, Joe Burrow is not necessarily a "better QB than Josh Allen". He IS playing better than Josh at this time. Earlier in the year, Burrow was awful. I guess if his fragile girl-like legs get a bruise on them he might just go to **** again. :D:

[Novacane]

JA17 has not been the same since he got that bartender pregnant and his girlfriend dumped him. Now is is more interested in being Hollywood JA17 with his actress girlfriend than being QB1 for the Bills.




I think the 2nd part is 100% BS. His personal life could be affecting his play but I don't buy for a second he's more interested in being Hollywood Josh than he is winning on the football field. If you said he's not the same because he's depressed about screwing things up with the long time love of his life I could see that as a possibility. That he doesn't care does not fit the JA we've come to know. Even if there are personal issues I still say the biggest problem is the moron calling the plays.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Believe it or not that "play" was a staple play in Daboll's offense. With Beasley catch the short out option a lot, and every once in a while you'd hit the hole shot on the outside, but last night Josh forced it. It's a stick concept, it's a staple of this O whether you guys want to believe it or not, we just throw the short out instead of the dumb option Josh chose yesterday. Josh doesn't have that throw to Davis open very much because teams know, we will give them the "stick" and take away the downfield throw, Josh just chose wrong, **** happens.


A lot.

[Mr. Pink]

I disagree on the premise, and I think the problem again, is Dorsey.

Bombs away...every play.

Cinci plays a modified WCO, that dinks and dunks until they get single coverage...then boom.

On Josh's interception, Diggs was wide open underneath, would have been at least a 5-6 yard gain.

Nah, we throw the deep 25 yard out pattern, and there's nowhere to go with the ball.

Davis was open also on that interception, Josh just underthrew him.

If Josh leads him, that's a big play.

[Ingtar33]

Davis was open also on that interception, Josh just underthrew him.

If Josh leads him, that's a big play.

ah... not really.

he was in the hole in a cover two. the problem is the underneath route was supposed to give the CB pause to make that a wider hole to throw into. it didn't because JA never throws the underneath throw. This made that effective area he could put that ball safely about 3feet.... on a 20 yard pass to the sidelines...

yes it wasn't an accurate pass. But no QB throws that ball into that tight of a window at that range as much as JA precisely because it requires superman level accuracy. JA completes an insane number of those throws, or throws into equally nuts holes in coverage, but when you gamble making insanely high difficulty level passes all game long you will throw an INT or two. If that CB had been drawn up a little by the underneath route, davis gets 20 on that play with or without the innacurate throw.

the problem with that play wasn't the INT, it was not taking the underneath route... which was utterly uncovered and probably was good for 10+ yards.

[Goobylal]

LOL! Give Josh Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Mixon and then we can talk.

[kingJofNYC]

Davis was open also on that interception, Josh just underthrew him.

If Josh leads him, that's a big play.

Brother, the room for that throw was tiny, a safety was playing over the top so I don't see how it's a big play. They ran stick to both sides of the field, Dalton and Diggs open if the outside DB doesn't trap/play hard on the flat, that's the read, but Josh played hero ball. Just look at the dots. The window to hit Davis was insanely small and the safety was over the top. Risk reward not there at all.


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[Mr. Pink]

If Allen throws that ball properly on that route to Davis it's a 20+ yard play. Davis then makes a guy miss and he scores or most likely he ends up getting pushed out of bounds after a couple YAC yards.

Or he could have looked to the other side of the field and hit a flat footed Cook for what would have been a 2-3 yard gain, which is what's being argued should have been the throw to make.

[notacon]

If Allen throws that ball properly on that route to Davis it's a 20+ yard play. Davis then makes a guy miss and he scores or most likely he ends up getting pushed out of bounds after a couple YAC yards.

Or he could have looked to the other side of the field and hit a flat footed Cook for what would have been a 2-3 yard gain, which is what's being argued should have been the throw to make.
I just watched that play again on NFL+.

Allen did not even look at Cook. He was not "flat footed"...he was WIDE OPEN. With only one Bengal's defender within close to 10 yards. Cook would have easily gotten a first down, and maybe a LOT more.

Here is the moment of boneheaded stupidity....


19964

The pass to Davis was stupid, stupid, stupid. He makes several of these really dumb decisions (especially ignoring the easy check down play) every ****ing week. It's tiresome and what separates Mahomes and Burrow from him.


TAKE THE EASY GAIN JOSH, you idiot!!!!!!

[kingJofNYC]

If Allen throws that ball properly on that route to Davis it's a 20+ yard play. Davis then makes a guy miss and he scores or most likely he ends up getting pushed out of bounds after a couple YAC yards.

Or he could have looked to the other side of the field and hit a flat footed Cook for what would have been a 2-3 yard gain, which is what's being argued should have been the throw to make.
Dude you don't read Davis on that throw with the way the Bengals played it, it's Diggs to Davis depending on what the CB does. If he opens to the 3 receiver side again it's Kincaid if the CB sinks, or Cook.

Like in your mind a properly placed ball is 20 yards, but the degree of difficultly on a throw like that is 9 out of 10, if not higher, with the Safety giving help over the top. And then you assume that Davis will make a guy miss. The choice is making a throw with a high degree of difficulty for a possible 20 yards, or hit the stick to Diggs for at a minimum of 6 yards. Is the 13-14 additional yards, assuming the RAC monster Davis doesn't make a guy miss, worth throwing that ball considering the difficulty, it's probably not.

More importantly, if the CB sinks you want to throw that out route, that way when you go back to the play later in the game you have the throw to Davis or Shakir on the outside. This is a play Brady used to kill ever team with. He would take the out all game long, until you came up, took away the out and then he went over the top. You can't have the big play until you take teh short stuff sometimes.

[Mr. Pink]

Why expect Josh Allen to make a throw that NFL QBs should make apparently when you can take a 3 yard dumpoff instead.

Got it.

Davis has two yards of separation on the DB on that play when Josh throws the ball. Allen underthrew the ball and it was an easy INT.

[kingJofNYC]

Why would any QB throw that with a safety over the top? Most NFL QBs can't make that throw.

The real question is why I even replied to you, it's clear you have no concept how that play should be read from strucutre.

Again, you completely ignore DIggs on the 6 yard out route, wide open. Whether Allen underthrew or overthrew, not important, because it was the wrong decision, he had little room to nail that throw. He underthrew because if he threw it too far the safety is there to make a play.

Lets use Mr Pink logic though. "JOSH SHOULD HAVE THROWN THE BALL TO DIGGS BECAUSE HE COULD HAVE TURNED INTO A 90 YARD TD BY MAKING GUYS MISS, I MEAN HE GOT 34 ON THAT FIRST DRIVE BY MAKING GUYS MISS, HE CAN DO IT AGAIN! SO THROW THE SHORT ROUTE."

[OpIv37]

LOL! Give Josh Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Mixon and then we can talk.

Ok…. If that’s your premise: why doesn’t Josh have those weapons? Burrow, Mahomes, Jackson, Hurts, Prescott, Tua… they all have better offensive weapons than Allen does. Our FO has spent right up to the cap and we have nothing to show for it.

[Ingtar33]

If Allen throws that ball properly on that route to Davis it's a 20+ yard play.

I don't disagree, that's the cover 2 beater if the CB comes up on the flat route. he didn't. so the throw to davis was wrong. Heck if the CB even slightly hesitates that's a catch... but he didn't. It's a highly difficult pass when the CB even glances at the flat. But when he doesn't? it becomes a 10 out of 10 on the difficulty scale... maybe a 9 out of 10 since davis got him trailing, but the window is 3ft.

I'm not kidding when i say "no one" in todays NFL makes that throw as often as Josh Allen. And no one completes that throw against that coverage as often as Josh Allen, and because no one throws that throw much, Josh Allen is also picked on those passes a lot because he's taking stupid risks. A good throw to diggs in the flat gets a min of 5 with good defense, and from what I recall the defense wasn't that good. a good throw and diggs turns that into 10 probably. That was the play. and Allen will continue to get miniscule looking holes to throw into downfield until he starts taking the short options on zone beaters. he never does. which is where most of his INTs come from. defenses know he won't throw the short option in a zone beater so they don't really even consider covering it.

Again, until allen starts throwing the short route on zone beater concepts, defenses will continue to pick him off, and he'll continue to wow us with tiny window throws 20 yards down field. but the offense will continue to sputter out because he's not using the short option to put defenders into conflict. if he threw the short option more, or even regularly, that cb might pull up quicker, giving him a big window to throw into and he doesn't have to be 100% perfect on every pass in order to complete them and not turn it over. I've seen people say that JA gets really unlucky with his turnovers, hell i've said it too, he does, but he also takes so many highly insane risks it's just the dice coming up snakeeyes. The reason why he's throwing ints is because of plays like this.

there is a reason why highly inaccurate QBs who play it safe don't throw as many picks as JA... it's because they take the safe option over and over again, so that even if they're not particularly accurate, the ball is still caught and they still move the chains. JA is making throws into windows no one else even tries to throw (yes even Mahomes) and he's hitting them at a very high rate, so he's justifiably confident in his arm. But it's causing turnovers.

You say "if he was more accurate he doesn't throw an INT true"... but if he was smarter, he doesn't throw that pass. And if he was throwing the short option on zone beaters more consistently, he doesn't have to be that accurate on the deep option EVERY F*ING TIME. he could be a little inaccurate then. the thing is, if he threw that ball perfectly and Davis got 20+ yards, he would still throw insanely silly passes into insanely silly small windows and it would eventually come up as an int later.

No one holds a QB responsible for a 20 yard pass down the sidelines not being laser perfect. the fact JA can be laser perfect on those throws is astonishing. but he gambles on that arm too much.

[Goobylal]

Ok…. If that’s your premise: why doesn’t Josh have those weapons? Burrow, Mahomes, Jackson, Hurts, Prescott, Tua… they all have better offensive weapons than Allen does. Our FO has spent right up to the cap and we have nothing to show for it.

I won't argue with you there.

[YardRat]

I disagree on the premise, and I think the problem again, is Dorsey.

Bombs away...every play.

Cinci plays a modified WCO, that dinks and dunks until they get single coverage...then boom.

On Josh's interception, Diggs was wide open underneath, would have been at least a 5-6 yard gain.

Nah, we throw the deep 25 yard out pattern, and there's nowhere to go with the ball.

That's on Josh.

[Luisito23]

Allen is not even better than Lawrence, let alone Burrow...

He's already 27 and on his 6th. year and still doing the stupid *** he did his rookie year, and people expect him to magically get better and learn...

LOL, good luck with that.

[OpIv37]

And back to the original premise: at this point, I think Burrow, Mahomes and Hurts are better than Allen.

Lawrence and Stroud are showing a lot of promise. They aren’t better than Allen now but they may be when it’s all said and done.

Tua, Dak and Lamar are not better than Allen.

Here’s where it gets weird for me: I really wouldn’t care which QB’s are better than Allen if he would just get us a SB. As of right now, those 3 QB’s that are worse than Allen have a better shot of winning the SB this year than Allen does.

If the Fish win the title and one of their fans start trash talking us, are you going to respond with “yeah, but our QB is still better!”? Of course not because no one cares.

Get a ring and no one will care that burrow and Mahomes are better.

[Goobylal]

Give Josh Mahomes', Burrow's and Hurts' offenses, meaning coaching (their HCs are top offensive minds) and personnel, and then we can talk.