View Full Version : To the ones that are whining about Henry..
mchurchfie
09-23-2002, 12:09 AM
http://server3002.freeyellow.com/mchurchfie/crybaby4.gif
Deal with it !!
shawn
09-23-2002, 12:22 AM
It stinks. If Henry didn't fumble the Bills might have won the game. Too bad Henry is like a little baby, he didn't have what it takes to hang onto the ball.
mchurchfie
09-23-2002, 12:36 AM
He is just part of the reason why we lost. If our defense would have stopped the Broncs on 4 & 5 we probably would have won too. It is funny how you guys are willing to cut every other facet of the game a break but you are dogging him for a bad play that he made. He is going to be a good back, you can't just waive him the next day because he has fumbled a few times. Sure it's a backbreaker but so is it when the D holds a team to 3rd and 13 and the they give up 20 or 30 yards for a first down.
LABillsFan
09-23-2002, 12:46 AM
It's not his fault solely, why the Bills lost. BUT, he does put the rock on the ground alot.
Buffarama
09-23-2002, 06:58 AM
Too bad Henry is like a little baby Shawn? What are you talking about? Cause he fumbled, he's like a little baby? Get real. That has got to be the dumbest post I ever read on here.
SABURZFAN
09-23-2002, 09:41 AM
s*** happens
LtBillsFan66
09-23-2002, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by mchurchfie
He is just part of the reason why we lost.
But a reason nonetheless. So don't get upset when you see posts about it.
Is anyone defending Watson? No. There were plenty of reasons we lost. Overall, we held up against one of the best teams in the league.
What?
We're supposed to be excited and Happy just b/c we have Henry on our roster and because he's named Travis Henry regardless of what or how he contributes to winning games?
I don't get it!
OK nonetheless. I'll play along.
------
WOW!!! Did you guys see Henry this week! AWESOME! He had three carries all on one drive for 25 of his 35 yards. He's FINALLY coming around to be the type of RB that we really need on this team.
Now, if he can only put up 30 or 40 yards v. Chicago, then we REALLY have a chance at winning that game. Great choice to make him the starter. I don't know what everyone else is thinking about. There are no other RBs on our roster who can average 2 or 3 ypc and put up 35 yards consistently like that.
Great call on Henry. I really think that he'll have well over 700 yards again by the end of the year. Hopefully he'll have half of that in 3 games v. Detroit, the Jets, and Houston like he did last year!
Boy oh Boy! I'm surely excited to see him run it up like that every week.
WOOHOO!!!
Come on Travis! Here's lookin' forward to next week w/ 3 carries for 30 yards and 12 more on another 15 carries!!
Go Travis Go!!!
mchurchfie
09-23-2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by BillsFanOne
But a reason nonetheless. So don't get upset when you see posts about it.
Is anyone defending Watson? No. There were plenty of reasons we lost. Overall, we held up against one of the best teams in the league.
:rolleyes:
Trust me, I'm not getting upset about it. Actually I find it kind of humorous about how some people are OBSESSED with him and use them as their "whipping boy". Your last point you made was good though and actually what I have been trying to say so at least you are half correct. :rolleyes:
church,
It does get a little old watching us give up 45 yards in penalties each week b/c of Watson's poor coverage or stupid penalties.
Yesterday he had a P.I. for 11 yards, and then a defensive holding to give the Broncos a first down on a 3rd and 7 from their own 35. That's the drive they went on to score the TD to Carswell!
Last week in Minnesota Watson had another P.I. for 8 yards on a Minnesota 3rd and 2 to give them a 1st down late in the 2nd Q that eventually set up a 44 yd. FG try. There were also numerous plays on which Watson wasn't flagged but could have, and should have been by all rights.
He needs a clinic on how to tackle as well. I simply don't understand how anyone can defend this man's play! It isn't good!
mchurchfie
09-23-2002, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
What?
We're supposed to be excited and Happy just b/c we have Henry on our roster and because he's named Travis Henry regardless of what or how he contributes to winning games?
I don't get it!
OK nonetheless. I'll play along.
------
WOW!!! Did you guys see Henry this week! AWESOME! He had three carries all on one drive for 25 of his 35 yards. He's FINALLY coming around to be the type of RB that we really need on this team.
Now, if he can only put up 30 or 40 yards v. Chicago, then we REALLY have a chance at winning that game. Great choice to make him the starter. I don't know what everyone else is thinking about. There are no other RBs on our roster who can average 2 or 3 ypc and put up 35 yards consistently like that.
Great call on Henry. I really think that he'll have well over 700 yards again by the end of the year. Hopefully he'll have half of that in 3 games v. Detroit, the Jets, and Houston like he did last year!
Boy oh Boy! I'm surely excited to see him run it up like that every week.
WOOHOO!!!
Come on Travis! Here's lookin' forward to next week w/ 3 carries for 30 yards and 12 more on another 15 carries!!
Go Travis Go!!!
Hey, I never said that you had to be excited and happy, that seems to be unchartered territory in your book anyways. Please give me your alternatives to not using him...Bryson? Oh yeah, we'll run pitchouts for the rest of the year seeing as to that is about all that he knows how to run. Go ahead and waive Henry and see how long he lasts before he gets scooped up.
:rolleyes:
The 30 yards on 3 carries is what he can do when he gets good blocking. He also made something out of nothing when on his TD run. It is those slow developing outside running plays and his limited chances of running the ball that have contributed to his stats. I AGREE, he needs to protect the ball better.
Hell, everyone is being patient with all other facets of our game that are screwing up why does he have to be the second coming of Thurman in his second year. :rolleyes:
It is amazing how well you spin and twist things to support your forecasts of doom and gloom for this team. You have been spinning so hard that I am surprised the Earth hasn't reversed it's rotation. Here is a picture of The good ole Bandwagon when The Bills start winning and you are ready to hop on...
http://server3002.freeyellow.com/mchurchfie/bandwagon.jpg
RBs don't always get good blocking. That's just a fact in the NFL. Are you tellin' us that every single yard gained by all the RBs yesterday were the result of good blocking?? I don't think so. Portis gained quite a few yards on sweeps which you and others casually dismiss as inviable in the NFL. Levens and Roger Craig made livings off of those along w/ a whole bunch of other RBs!
"Hey, I never said that you had to be excited and happy, that seems to be unchartered territory in your book anyways."
Apparently you didn't see too many of my posts last year, eh! ;)
I actually think I'm being quite optimistic. At least what I am optimistic about is founded and factual instead of having hopes hinged on the play of a player in only 25% of his games and against the worst rush Ds too boot.
In the meantime, if Henry can only run w/ huge holes, then I'm sure Bryson can do the same. You and others dismiss the play of Henry b/c he only had 12 carries on the basis that you can't see how good he is on only 12 carries. What I'm saying is at least be consistent w/in your own logic then.
Bryson's had more than 12 carries only 6 times in his career, with 4 of those times being 13, 14, 15, and 16 carries, which I assume isn't that much more fair. Nonetheless, in those 6 games he's outplayed Henry. He's had 105 carries for 462 yards and a 4.4 ypc average.
So how on earth do you completely and entirely dismiss Bryson as sucking?
I just don't get it. You can't use one set of critieria on one back and then completely dismiss that set in favor of another based solely on emotional subjectivity! Yet that's exactly what you are doing.
I also seem to think that a little competition for Mr. Henry might go a LONG way into trying to get him to try a little harder!
BTW, did you happen to miss that clip that the announcers showed, oh, BTW, on national TV against Minnesota last week, that showed how Henry completely missed a hole the size of his body which was CLEARLY right in front of him slightly to the right before running headlong into his own blockers and a wall of defenders to his left? Did ya happen to catch that. As was clearly detectable, not to mention stated by the announcers, if he had picked the hole instead of the wall, he would have had a HUGE gain! So please don't say he has no holes. He also has misses some. That wasn't the only play either.
There's nothing wrong w/ platooning Bryson and Henry to see what happens. If Bryson happens to run better, then great. If he sucks like you say, then I surely don't see how we'll be the worse off. I don't think too many backs would have any difficultly rushing for 24 carries for 65 yards, w/ 42 of those coming on 4 carries, leaving a 20 carries for 23 yards after that. Such a running game, unless he scores each time on those long runs, is of no use to us. We need a ball carrier who can move the ball w/ consistency when counted upon. Henry, so far, has proven, in 16 games, that he cannot do that.
Will he do it? Perhaps. But I'm not counting chickens before he does. I'd like to win games here.
He stunk up the preseason too against mostly teams that have no rush Ds. I didn't even count those.
How many games will you allow him before saying we need to try something a little different? 2 more. 3.
What if he only has one good game every 4 weeks or so on average and then only vs. teams that have no significant rush D? Is that considered good? If not, what do we do about it?
THATHURMANATOR
09-23-2002, 12:21 PM
WYS has changed the focus of his hatred from Drew to TH. I agree that he needs to hold onto the ball. I also feel he is going to be a quality back in the near future.
mchurchfie
09-23-2002, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Bryson's had more than 12 carries only 6 times in his career, with 4 of those times being 13, 14, 15, and 16 carries, which I assume isn't that much more fair. Nonetheless, in those 6 games he's outplayed Henry. He's had 105 carries for 462 yards and a 4.4 ypc average.
So how on earth do you completely and entirely dismiss Bryson as sucking?
I never said that he totally sucks, he just isn't our answer though. And he has been with the Bills for what..3-4 years?? Please don't tell me that hasn't gotten a chance. Henry beat him out in training camp last year. Those 462 yards are an aberation too as they came in the last two games and one of his runs was for 68Yds. Another example of how a stat can get twisted to support your argument
:rolleyes:
I just don't get it. You can't use one set of critieria on one back and then completely dismiss that set in favor of another based solely on emotional subjectivity! Yet that's exactly what you are doing.
True, I'll give you that much, my bad.
I also seem to think that a little competition for Mr. Henry might go a LONG way into trying to get him to try a little harder!
He is trying hard, if you can't see that then you are not looking at the whole picture :rolleyes:
BTW, did you happen to miss that clip that the announcers showed, oh, BTW, on national TV against Minnesota last week, that showed how Henry completely missed a hole the size of his body which was CLEARLY right in front of him slightly to the right before running headlong into his own blockers and a wall of defenders to his left? Did ya happen to catch that. As was clearly detectable, not to mention stated by the announcers, if he had picked the hole instead of the wall, he would have had a HUGE gain! So please don't say he has no holes. He also has misses some. That wasn't the only play either.
No back is going to be perfect in reading the holes it will happen from time to time..give it a break. Oh BTW, did you happen to see in the Lions preseason game where Mike Williams pancaked his man and had him lying in the endzone about three times in a row and Bryson totally missed the hole, getting stuffed twice before he finally got it right for a whole yard gain and TD.
There's nothing wrong w/ platooning Bryson and Henry to see what happens. If Bryson happens to run better, then great. If he sucks like you say, then I surely don't see how we'll be the worse off. I don't think too many backs would have any difficultly rushing for 24 carries for 65 yards, w/ 42 of those coming on 4 carries, leaving a 20 carries for 23 yards after that. Such a running game, unless he scores each time on those long runs, is of no use to us. We need a ball carrier who can move the ball w/ consistency when counted upon. Henry, so far, has proven, in 16 games, that he cannot do that.
Will he do it? Perhaps. But I'm not counting chickens before he does. I'd like to win games here.
I never said he Bryson sucks, he is good in pitchout situations. However, if you use him as such you don't think that the defense isn't going to know his tendencies??
Spin, Spin, Spin away all that you want Wys. You think that just because you can go on Google.com and dig up a bunch of stats, conveniently stats that support your argument, and then write a couple of "Doom and Gloom" chapters on it then it makes you right and everyone else wrong. I could sit here all day and dig up and twist facts to prove you wrong and me right but I don't need to. Just watch the game and you will see the real story.
:rolleyes:
Bufftp
09-23-2002, 01:45 PM
Boys, Boys, Boys.........we shoulda picked up Jamal.
mchurchfie
09-23-2002, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Bufftp
Boys, Boys, Boys.........we shoulda picked up Jamal.
Amen to that Brotha Buff, I wanted to do the "Dirty Bird" along time ago:up:
church,
"I never said that he totally sucks, he just isn't our answer though."
How do you know this?
Are you mystical? Do you have powers of psychic ability such that you know this without any tangible proof? Or are you simply special! LOL
"Those 462 yards are an aberation too as they came in the last two games and one of his runs was for 68Yds."
And what? Henry's against two scrub rush Ds last year we're supposed to concede as having been stellar in the absence of just about any other proof that he can even play as a starter at this level???
I don't get it. You find some bumbling reason to dismiss the good performances that Bryson has and totally mitigate the 10 absolutely CRAP games that Henry's had in 14 tries. Unbelieveable.
"He is trying hard, if you can't see that then you are not looking at the whole picture"
Then his efforts simply aren't good enough. I've personally seen him miss holes at least 3 or 4 times. That's when I've been watching. So this argument that it's all the OL's fault when they are not playing poorly is silly. In any case, I'm not gonna settle for what Henry's giving us right now. If you don't like Bryson, then fine, let's trade Price for an RB who can run. But keeping Henry in there at this rate is to accept failure! I won't do that!
Wrong or right has nothing to do with it. Your argument is that "someday Henry will be good." Mine is "Fine! But for now he not only is not even average, he SUCKS and is COSTING our team wins IMO."
You're happy at that. I'm not!
Call me pessimistic. But at the end of the year, at this rate, Henry will have less than 1,000 yards and over half of them will have been against the Jets twice, Detroit, Houston, and maybe one other team while completely "wetting the bed" against a whole bunch of teams that he should at least have put up70 or 89 yards on near or better than 4.0 ypc against.
OK then.
Call me picky!
Bufftp
09-23-2002, 04:19 PM
Picky!
Want to win!!!
12 carries each week b/c our RB is too unreliable for 30 yards isn't helping!
;)
Just look at the Jets. Their team has disintegrated b/c of their inability to establish the run. If we didn't have Drew, we'd be getting killed right now. Can you imagine Van Pelt under these circumstances!!!
Help!
Kelly The Dog
09-23-2002, 04:30 PM
sorry, wys, at this pace Henry will have 1151 yards and 21 touchdowns and a 3.9 average. I think any Bills fan but you would be very pleased with that.
Sure, a straight line average. But if you consider the talent, he'll do FAR less. You think he's gonna run well against the Raiders and Bears if he couldn't run against the Vikes?
Also, look at last year. 3 bad games, 1 good one, 5 bad games, 1 good one, 1 horrible game, 1 good one, 1 fair one. That trend is continuing here.
Also, assume another poor day v. Chicago. Say 40 yards. Now he's under 1,000 w/ only one good game v. a HORRIBLE rushing defense for the year. Look, if all he can do is light up the 29th, 26th, 31st rush Ds, then what good is he?!
NONE! He surely wouldn't be of any use in the playoffs when we get there.
Why? Do you not agree that he needs to start turning games consistently in order for the team to consider him our unchallenged starter?
You are welcome to address the challenge of explaining why Bryson sucks too. I posted the link to his game stats. How come no one wants to stand up and be counted in providing some proof for their statements that Bryson can't do better?
Feel free...
Kelly The Dog
09-23-2002, 04:49 PM
I think that Bryson is a very adequate if not good back-up. Actually I like Bryson. I also have watched almost every single Bills game for 30 years and think Henry is a very talented runner and will get better and the fans will love him when the line gets settled. The games Henry gets crappy yardage, like yesterday's, he gets hit as soon as he touches the ball. If there is ANY little hole he almost always hits it and doesnt go down until the second or third guy gets there. Bryson has never, since high school, even carried the ball 100 times. He was switched from RB to FB at Tennessee because he wasn't as good as Lewis and Henry. He's never been a starting tailback in his life and Henry is the all-time leading rusher at the EXACT SAME SCHOOL, one year apart. Bryson has tremendous speed and can get to the outside and break a long gainer better than Henry. That's for sure. For an every down back though I dont think there's any question, nor even one person in the Bills organization that thinks that Bryson is the better back, or he would at least get a series or two. Henry was very good picking up the blitz yesterday, too. Bryson goes down faster that Antowain Smith ever did unless there is a gaping hole in front of him and the Bills provide so very few gaping holes.
How on earth do you know all of this since Bryson has hardly had any playing time THIS year!?!
It's 100% pure speculation. At least inasmuch as his abilities in the NFL are concerned.
Besides, you seem to be misconstruing my dissatisfaction w/ Henry to mean that Bryson is by far and away a better RB. I'm not saying that at all. What I am is that Henry apparently is FAR too inconsistent to be considered for use as a starting running back in the NFL at this rate.
Sure, I'll wait for Sunday's game. But if he doesn't put up, then all I'm saying is try something else. ANYTHING! If he has a great game and then doesn't show up again for 3 or 4 more weeks, my point will have been made even stronger.
We should have no use for a RB who puts up 120 yards once and then is a non-factor for 3 more games regularly.
If that's the case and Bryson doesn't pan out, then I say we need to start looking for a RB this offseason.
I have no idea how Bryson would do. All I'm saying is try something different to see if it's Henry. It may very well be the OL. But we won't know until we try other options.
In the meantime, demanding that Henry's gonna be the next Emmitt simply due to favoratism is biased.
Heck, try Morris again if we have to. Bring in Alexander again. Heck, try Burns!!! I don't care. I DO care that we can't seem to find our rushing game when the passing game is prolific.
Kelly The Dog
09-23-2002, 05:03 PM
The Head Coach and the position coaches and the personell guys and the General manager and even the owner watch the team a lot closer than you do. They watch every practice and go over film for hours a day. If Bryson was putting on such a talent show in practice and games do you think one of them may say, hey, guess what, maybe we should play Shawn a little more? Like I said, I personally like Bryson and think he;s a good back-up and a change of pace runner. In fact, if it were up to me i WOULD give Bryson a couple series a game like we used to with Kenny Davis. Apparently, the people that watch him and study him every day think otherwise.
BillsMan80
09-23-2002, 05:06 PM
Actually Wys, you need to realize that the Vikes shut down Anthony Thomas Week One to the tune of 19 carries for 45 yards.
Alluro
09-23-2002, 05:25 PM
I am in the camp that thinks henry is not the back this team should be built around. It isn't because of the numbers, which are okay if not spectactular, or because we have bryson backing him up. Travis Henry is not the back for this team because he doesn't have "it." "It" is what the great backs in the game today have; marshall faulk, edgerrin james, fred taylor, priest holmes, ricky williams, as well as a few others. These backs have the ability to make the first guy miss, and they can accelerate, getting from point A to point B, faster than the travis henry's of the world. They also have innate running instincts that lead them to daylight. The bills do not have a player like this on their team. There is however light at the end of the tunnel; Fred Taylor is a free agent at the end of the year. I would love to see us let Peerless walk, and give his money to a franchise running back like fred taylor. He is big, 6'1 230, and as fast as any back in football. His natural running instincts are only matched by faulk and maybe james, he is the real deal. It would be the steal of the offseason if donahoe could bring Fred to the Bills.
TacklingDummy
09-23-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Just look at the Jets. Their team has disintegrated b/c of their inability to establish the run. If we didn't have Drew, we'd be getting killed right now. Can you imagine Van Pelt under these circumstances!!!
Help!
Could you imagine Rob Johnson under those circumstances!!!
All the hits Bledose had taking this year would have already ended Robs sesaon.
mchurchfie
09-23-2002, 06:04 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wys Guy
church,
"I never said that he totally sucks, he just isn't our answer though."
How do you know this
Are you mystical? Do you have powers of psychic ability such that you know this without any tangible proof? Or are you simply special! LOL
I don't get it. You find some bumbling reason to dismiss the good performances that Bryson has and totally mitigate the 10 absolutely CRAP games that Henry's had in 14 tries. Unbelieveable.
Yes, I do have tangible proof. The man has been on this team for 4 years and under two coaches and has never been given a vote of confidence to get the starting nod. I am sure that they are a hell of a lot smarter than you or I when it comes to making that choice. They see him everyday in practice. That's not psychic ability or any BUMBLING reasoning, it is a matter of common sense. Of course, go ahead and dispell it with all of your infamous stats and cynical reasoning because I am sure you know better than all of us anyways.
"He is trying hard, if you can't see that then you are not looking at the whole picture"
Then his efforts simply aren't good enough. I've personally seen him miss holes at least 3 or 4 times. That's when I've been watching. So this argument that it's all the OL's fault when they are not playing poorly is silly. In any case, I'm not gonna settle for what Henry's giving us right now. If you don't like Bryson, then fine, let's trade Price for an RB who can run. But keeping Henry in there at this rate is to accept failure! I won't do that!
Wrong or right has nothing to do with it. Your argument is that "someday Henry will be good." Mine is "Fine! But for now he not only is not even average, he SUCKS and is COSTING our team wins IMO."
You're happy at that. I'm not!
Well hell, if you are going to get rid of him for not doing the job then we might as well get rid of half of the D-line and half of the DBs because they sure as hell aren't getting it done either. I'm not happy about it but I do realize that this is still a very young team and they are all still taking their lumps..including Henry..and are going through their growing pains. Most people are willing to accept that this team isn't going to the POs this year so if you want to ZERO in on Henry and lament about how bad he is, just like you used Bledsoe for your personal little Whipping Boy when we first got him, go ahead. I'll bet you by the end of the year that you will be eating as much Crow on this one as you did with DB. Care to make a wager??
Call me pessimistic.
OK then.
Call me picky!
Pessimistic..Picky:rolleyes:
"Well hell, if you are going to get rid of him for not doing the job then we might as well get rid of half of the D-line and half of the DBs because they sure as hell aren't getting it done either."
We ARE! This just in! We've been trying virtually every possible combination out there both during the season as well as in preseason. I don't see Office, or Edwards, or Robertson, or any of the rookies firmly cemented as starters as Henry is. Yet Henry is playing just as poorly and possibly moreso, and he's firmly entrenched as the starter! Why?
Did I ever say cut Henry right now? No!
Your statement is a joke. What, we're supposed to cut people. I never said get 'rid of him'. Let him sit for a bit. I mean you and a few others only seem to be happy w/ the way he's running the ball. At least Rob had the numbers in quite a few games. More than not. Henry's firing on 25% of his games.
But hey, I guess this is what Bills fans call success now after the last few years, eh.
;)
Not me though. So far however, the one who's gonna be eatin' crow is you. It's not as if Henry has proven a thing. Nothing! Other than he's grossly inconsistent.
As to Bledsoe, even my Pats bud admits he's playing the best ball of his life. I did say before the season that if that happened then it would justify the trade. I've admitted, barring disaster henceforth, that it has happened. At least I can admit when things change.
You cannot even admit that Henry's never done anything except against teams that suck against the run! Where's the honesty?
I'll just let it lie for now even though I think we can do better somehow on this team w/ Drew opening up the passing lanes as he is. I mean, no team can really afford to put more than 4 or 5 guys on the line w/ any sort of regularity anymore against us the way Drew's playing. So how is it that Henry can't seem to do anything at all.
We'll see how he does this Sunday. If he can turn a good game against a non-formidable rushing D foe, and then keep up at least some semblance of a rushing game, then I'm all for keeping him in there. So far that hasn't happened however. Until it does, you may want to temper your optimisim.
How 'bout Burns? Is he OK with you?! Or is it only approved by you for Henry to get 98% of the carries this season? Morris? Anyone else? Or do we have your approval to try only Henry until '06?
Just checkin'...
;)
:D
casdhf
09-23-2002, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
If he can turn a good game against a non-formidable rushing D foe, and then keep up at least some semblance of a rushing game, then I'm all for keeping him in there.
:lol: Right.
mchurchfie
09-23-2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
he[/i] OK with you?! Or is it only approved by you for Henry to get 98% of the carries this season? Morris? Anyone else? Or do we have your approval to try only Henry until '06?
Just checkin'...
;)
:D
We'll go with Henry until '06 and if he doesn't work then we will go Joe Burns. Thanxs for seeing it my way and thanxs for playing;) :D
:lol:
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