Henry fails yet another test:

[WG]

Inasmuch as Henry's rushing ability, he once again proved that he's unreliable and extremely inconsistent.

He missed two holes right in front of him for no gain when he could have had at least 5 yards on both.

While some of you will blow the same old weak-sounding "Henry-horn" w/ the notion that he averaged almost 4 ypc, the fact is that w/o that 29 yard run, he had 14 carries for 29 yards and a 2.0 ypc avg.

That is not good no matter how you slice it for yet another sub-par performance. I don't think the coaches have any confidence that he can do the job.

Taking away his longest 3 runs of 29, 11, and 8 yards, he's left w/ runs of:

2, -3, 1, -2, 2, 3, 0, 2, -2, 3, 2, 2

That simply BLOWS!

Bottom line: How much longer are we gonna wait to try something new. This season is already in the tank as far as making the playoffs goes. Perhaps there are a few delusionaries out there who are still holding out hope. We may finish at 9-7 or 8-8. I'm saying 6-10 or 7-9 at this point. No better, possibly even 5-11 if we underrate other teams.

So how about trying out some other things at RB. The coaches clearly don't believe Henry is the man or they'd have given him at least 12 carries in the first half. Instead, he's proven that he either gets a big-play run or just can't run the ball at all 80% of the time.

Well, we don't need big plays from Henry and the running game. What we need is an RB who can get 4 or 5 yards a carry consistently to help take the load off of Drew who can put up all the big plays we need in a game!

[Buffarama]

We should try and steal Dillon from Cincinnatti. They don't seem to bright over there, it could happen.

[casdhf]

Wys, Why take away his longest runs? That's just stupid. Take away all of Henry's runs over 3 yards and his average will be 1.7. Who cares??? He earns every yard, whether its 2 or 45.

[Creemoredrinker]

What do you really want the Bills to do other than get rid of Henry?

:loblo:

[LtBillsFan66]

"Wys, You Are ON a Campaign Here"

Here we go again...

[casdhf]

He wants a HB with no big play ability. A back that gets 3.5 yards every carry then falls down. Season stats:
200 carries for 700 yards and 3 TDs. Long of 3.5

[Buffarama]

LOL Cas

[LtBillsFan66]

I like the way Henry has been running. Sans the fumbles. I don't know what you're watching wys.

[WG]

LOL cas.

Sorry, it was a CRAP performance. If he did that every week it wouldn't help us in the least! Sorry to bust on your boy. But he isn't cutting it.


Cree,

IDK. That's for the coaches to figure out. But before we ride out the year w/ Henry who's on pace now for only around 1,000 yards and falling each week due to an anomalous first week, I'd say we should try something! Wouldnt' you?

Based on the last 4 weeks, he's averaging less than 50 ypg and is right on pace for exactly what he did last year in only 13 games.

I can't believe anyone is still standing up for this stiff! He blatantly missed two clear holes right in front of him on Sunday. He was directly behind a blocker w/ a HUGE hole to the left of the man and a "pile" to the right. What does he do? He runs into the pile when he probably could have gained 10+ yards by going left. Unbelieveable is the only word that I can think of to describe it. If you don't believe me go see for yourself. It occurred at around 11 min. left in the 3rd Q. There was another as well.

I don't see why you're so averse to trying something new?!?

What? You're happy and content w/ Henry's 191 yards on 51 carries over the past 4 games for a ypc avg of about 3.7 ypc??

I'm not! Especially when you consider that 45 of those runs have been horrendous and probably 25% of them have been for negative yardage.

Time for us to try something else. Why waste another 11 games before heading into next season not fully knowing what we have on the bench!

[WG]

Oh yeah, and he only has 2 rushing TDs to 3 fumbles in the last 4 games!

[justasportsfan]

We had Thurman then we had A. Smith who in his second year rushed for over 1,000 yds. (or was it first) Henry is on his 2nd year and I guess we expect more out of him. He's been mediocre as best and we need better.

[casdhf]

At least next season Bryson will be a FA and probably not a Bill. Then it will officially be the end of the Wys-RJ-Bryson era, although his boy Travis Brown will still be hanging around. :rolleyes:

:D

[WG]

BFO,

"I like the way Henry has been running. Sans the fumbles. I don't know what you're watching wys."

So you like a back who gets most of his positive yardage on 2 or 3 big plays and then cannot be counted on to provide at least some element of a "ball-control" offense for the rest of the game?

Not me. I much prefer a guy who can get you 4 or 5 consistently when you need it the most. Not a guy who on first or second down can do what Drew does thru the air whenever he wants to!

[Novacane]

Henry is better than Bryson! No Contest IMO. There is a lot more to a running game than just the RB. To lay it all on him just shows you don't like the guy wys!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
BFO,

"I like the way Henry has been running. Sans the fumbles. I don't know what you're watching wys."

So you like a back who gets most of his positive yardage on 2 or 3 big plays and then cannot be counted on to provide at least some element of a "ball-control" offense for the rest of the game?

Not me. I much prefer a guy who can get you 4 or 5 consistently when you need it the most. Not a guy who on first or second down can do what Drew does thru the air whenever he wants to!

So you only like hall of fame running backs. That's ok. There aren't too many in the league right now.

[WG]

Right now we're averaging more than 26 ypg LESS than we were last year running the ball!

Why?

The OL is better w/o a doubt!
Our passing game should be taking the heat off of the running game in spades and in fact it is!
Henry has the FULL backing, at least in word, of the entire coaching staff!

So why is it that he isn't anymore effective at running the ball than he was last year?

Why is it that he's actually worse? After all, assuming that the Jets game was a total anomaly, which is extremely reasonable since they suck as a D, Henry isn't even doing as well as he did last year. He's averaging 48 yards per game. That would be 868 yards on the year if that keeps up. And why shouldn't it? That includes the Jets game.

Last year he had 729 yards in only 13 games on a team that couldn't tie it's shoes properly.

Your guys' blind optimism for keeping Henry in there is based on personal bias and favoritism only. He's one of the worst rushers in the league right now. Period! He can't average over 4.0 ypc, he's on pace for around 8 TDs this year if you don't count that Jets game. If you take off his top 5 runs or so, his ypc average is probably slightly better than 2 ypc.

It's an uphill argument. I'm just wondering when you all are gonna favor us trying some other options.


B2R46,

"Henry is better than Bryson! No Contest IMO."

Then we should flat out cut Bryson, b/c he REALLY sucks then! B/c Henry ain't doin' jack other than a big run twice a game.

This just in: You don't want an RB who puts up two great runs and can't run the ball after that the entire game. Sorry to say...

[casdhf]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Right now we're averaging more than 26 ypg LESS than we were last year running the ball!


And how many attempts are we running this year as opposed to last year? You can bend the stats any way you like...but, again, you're wrong

[WG]

If you back out that 29-yard run on Sunday, he's averaging only 3.2 ypc.

Is this good? Am I missing something?

Bryson cannot average 3.2 ypc when he's done far better than that in his career w/ the Bills???

If you back out Henry's next two longest runs of 17 and 16, he's averaging 2.7 YPC!!!

That's 2.7 ypc in the past 4 games on 48 of his 51 carries!

I dare say that I think he's got more carries, percentage-wise, than any other starting #1 RB in this league. IDK for sure, but I'd wager that he does.

How can you guys even justify this as anything even resembling anything other than CRAP!?!

I don't get it. By that standard we should have signed Lamar Smith or Michael Pittman. If Henry is as good as you say he is, then those guys are surely Shoe-in Pro-bowlers!

[justasportsfan]

wys, we understand your frustration for the most part. But don't make it seems like it's entirely Henry's fault. I don't think Gilbrides system is known for the running game.

[LtBillsFan66]

Listen wys. Look at the point #'s we have been putting up. If it ain't broke, then don't fix it. So far, (except the Jets) we've played teams with better run defenses. Maybe our plan was not to run much against these teams.

[Novacane]

Henry will prove Wys wrong just like Bledsoe did!

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by BillsFanOne
Listen wys. Look at the point #'s we have been putting up. If it ain't broke, then don't fix it. So far, (except the Jets) we've played teams with better run defenses. Maybe our plan was not to run much against these teams.

BF1, with all due respect , it is broken. Our running game needs fixing. Wys just seems to put it all on Henry's shoulder w/c isn't fair.

[WG]

95% of his carries in the past 4 games cas, 2,7 ypc. A FULL t-tenths of a yard less than last year.

So who's twisting the stats?

We should start the "Travis Henry Ostrich Fan Club!"

The motto will be "...for those w/ their heads in the sand..." LOL

As for me, my standards for what I expect out of a RB who's supposed to be our RB of the future are a bit higher. Henry doesn't inspire anything in me yet. Nothing. He's had 18 games to prove he can run the ball consistently and he hasn't done it. If one or two big rushing plays makes you happy, then I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree. But it doesn't make me happy.

Anyway, at this rate, he'll finish the season w/ less than 1,000 yards and about 10 TDs. I don't think there's too many starting RBs in the league who would have had trouble doing that on this team, especially when they get all he goal line calls. Surely, the only reason for the TDs isn't his tremendous rushing otherwise.

Prediction: Look to see Bryson and possibly Burns some this week in Houston. Drew needs help and Henry ain't gettin' it for him.

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
Henry will prove Wys wrong just like Bledsoe did!

It's not even that. It's too friggin early to make those types of assessments (if you take out longest runs/catches).

I have never ever seen such illogical reasoning ever.

How many more threads?

I'm waiting for "Oh how Henry blows Let me count the ways"

[LtBillsFan66]

BURNS!? WTF are you sick!?!?!?!??!!?????!!!!!

[LtBillsFan66]

It's the Bills D, not Henry that's not giving Drew a break!!! Holy crap!!!

[doug45]

Originally posted by BillsFanOne
It's the Bills D, not Henry that's not giving Drew a break!!! Holy crap!!!


I can not blaim the D completely when the O gave them 14 points.

[casdhf]

What about taking out Bryson's longest runs from his average?? I bet it goes down alot too. Math is pretty simple.

[colin]

We don't seem to run the ball enough late, but we give up too many points to really do much besides passing.

Wys, you really can be myopic, remove his good plays and he is no good, wow that really says something. Take away Garners long runs and pass catching and we beat the Raiders, it does not work that way. Henry is a very capable running back, when he hits the hole he is a rocket, that is what we need.

[WG]

Just,

Henry, personally, is doing worse than last year!

Why is everyone giving him a pass?

Also, if it isn't all his fault, then who's is it? I agree w/ you BTW.

But from what I'm hearing Gilbride is a mastermind and is calling games perfectly. Well, if that's the case, then it's gotta be the OL. Since I've personally seen Henry miss holes that were as plain as the nose on his face, I cannot attribute it all to the OL either.

Henry's overrated. He's largely at fault.

Gilbride is also at fault as soon as Bills fans take off their "Gildbride's a genious" goggles, they'll see that.

The OL is the last of those to blame. The Ds know full well when Henry's gonna run half the time. The other half Henry doesn't read the holes/line well.

Yes, the OL is partly to blame, but not that much.

In any case, our rushing offense, in spite of a HUGE game in week one to blur everyone's perspective, is extremely sad!

If you look at our rushing game from last year to this using just the past 4 games, we are averaging 63 YPG as compared to last year's 105 YPG avg. That's almost half!

[WG]

To counter your arguments, Henry MUST share some blame as well. Trying to pin it all on the OL is remiss. Especially when Gilbride, after Henry, is the single largest influence in this.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
If you back out that 29-yard run on Sunday, he's averaging only 3.2 ypc.



If you back out Henry's next two longest runs of 17 and 16, he's averaging 2.7 YPC!!!

That's 2.7 ypc in the past 4 games on 48 of his 51 carries!





Ok oh great stats man!





A. Green Packers 107 yards on 27 carries. Take away his long of 43 and his average is only 2.4 ypc

Mcalliser Lets take away his long run of 53 yds and his average is around 3ypc

I could go on and on..............to say take away their best runs and then figure their average is a lame arguement!

[casdhf]

Why when you post Bryson's stats do you not take out his best rushes? I don't mind a good arguement, but taking runs from one player and not taking them from another makes your argument worse than it already is

[Tatonka]

it is assinine to say "take out his good plays and he sucks.."

this whole thread is assinine.

[WG]

It's even more assinine to base his entire game, value to the team, and overall play on 2 of 15 plays each and every week.

;)

[WG]

B2R46,

Ahhh! So now Henry's as good as Green and McAllister! I see! Now this is getting REALLY ridiculous!!!

How many runs for negative yardage do those guys have?

Would you say it's as high as Henry's?

Also, as I see it, Green is STILL averaging about 4.0 YPC after you back out his 3 longest carries, which are longer than Henry's BTW! He's also averaged OVER 100 YPG and hasn't averaged less than 4.0 YPC in any single game.

Still think they're comparable! I laugh at your entire statements.

McAllister, same thing! He's had 1 Henry-like game. His big play value exceeds Henry's. He's had THREE 100-yard rushing games and three games in which he's averaged over 5 YPC.

There's no comparison fellas. Henry's been on a downhill slide ever since the Jets game which we now know was an anomaly and that the Jets D sucks. They're dead last in the league in rush D allowing near 200 YPG and have allowed almost 1,000 yards rushing in 5 games!

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
B2R46,

Ahhh! So now Henry's as good as Green and McAllister! I see! Now this is getting REALLY ridiculous!!!




Don't put words in my mouth! You know thats not what I meant! I was making the point and most agree that to say a guy sucks after you take away his good runs is crazy!:phew:

[WG]

BTW, to put that Jets D stat in some sort of perspective, they're allowing over 60 yards more per game rushing that we are!

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
To counter your arguments, Henry MUST share some blame as well. Trying to pin it all on the OL is remiss. Especially when Gilbride, after Henry, is the single largest influence in this.

I won't argue this. Henry needs to get better. He didn't fumble the ball and that in itself is an improvement.

Wire busted on 2 plays w/c caused 2 Raiders TD. Winfield and Clements got burned. In others words the D as a team got ***** slapped . Total team failure.

Same goes with the running game. Our O isn't playing to perfection as a unit because of the lack of a running game. However , it is a team failure in the running dept.

[WG]

B2R46,

"Don't put words in my mouth! You know thats not what I meant! I was making the point and most agree that to say a guy sucks after you take away his good runs is crazy!"

How does it feel! ;)

MY POINT:

He has so few good runs, that to take them, what?, the 8 or 10 of them all season other than the Jets game, and to base an entire argument out of them and them alone while completely ignoring the way he usually plays is even more silly!

He's not a good runner. At least not the way he's running now. He's averaging about 3.7 YPC and that's largely thanks to his [b]ONE[b] big play, not 5 or 6, but one big play of 29 yards. After that, he's averaging only about 3.2 YPC.

Defend that as you may. His longest run after that is 17 yards. I dare say that most of the top RBs have numerous runs longer than 17 yards.

I really can't believe you guys are defending Henry! I really can't.

According to his past play, here's what we can expect from him this week:

If he gets:

15 carries, about 50 yards and one of those runs aroudnd 20 yards. That would leave 14 carries for about 30 yards.

Will you be happy w/ that?

20 carries, about 70 yards and a 20 yard run leaving 19 carries for 50 yards or about a 2.5 YPC after that.

Will you be happy w/ that?

25 carries, which I doubt he'll get b/c he doesn't do anything w/ the carries; nonetheless, about 90 yards, a 20 yard big play, and again, about 2.8 YPC.

Will that excite you?

It makes me only wish for some serious improvements in our rushing game.

[justasportsfan]

I don't think wys is serious. Just trying to get more zonebucks,:shakeno:

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
B2R46,

"Don't put words in my mouth! You know thats not what I meant! I was making the point and most agree that to say a guy sucks after you take away his good runs is crazy!"

How does it feel! ;)





When have I put words in your mouth Wys?:$:

[WG]

Just,

How do you, and the others, know that Bryson or Burns wouldn't do better?

Do you have ESP? Do any of the others?

I hear one set of arguments defending Henry based on certain criteria and then subsequently dismissing that same set of criteria in slamming Bryson or other options which are totally unbeknownst to us at this point.

Yeah, sure, the coaches know what we don't! Oh boy! Is that why we're worse this year than last in just about every category on defense and in our rushing game on offense? Is that why we haven't improved at all this year so far? Is that why Gilbride and Williams say that Henry's the man and then don't back up their words or have the confidence to give him the ball much. (5 times in the entire first half on 4 separate drives)???

Honestly, if this team doesn't improve dramatically by year's end, I say it's time for a new D.C., and new RB's coach, and possibly a few other changes. Def. Backs coach? I'll also give GW one more year.

This team has regressed from last year and TD, GW, and Co. should count their lucky stars that Bledsoe has salavaged this season. It alone is making us put up the false perception that we're a competitive team.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
I don't think wys is serious. Just trying to get more zonebucks,:shakeno:

and its working! this is the hottest thread of the day by far!

We're all suckers for falling for it!:party:

[WG]

Everyone does B2R46. I don't think Henry's the answer so I'm in love w/ Bryson and have a bias and favoritism for him simply b/c I'm not satisfied w/ a RB who averages barely over 3 YPC for the most part.

I quite honestly cannot believe that those defending Henry don't see some HUGE issues in our running game of which Henry MUST share some of the blame here.

It quite honestly is befuddling! :D

[Novacane]

FYI.........wys..........I am not a Henry lover. I just think you are being unfair figuring his stats by taking away his best runs.


I'm for whatever back gives the Bills the best shot to win and based on the time Bryson played in The Bears game that is not him!

[LtBillsFan66]

Not everyone is a "defender", "lover", "hater", "...ite", "flake", just because they disagree with fuzzy logic.

[casdhf]

Just because you don't like Herny doesn't mean you love Bryson. In this specific case, I am positive you are in love with Bryson :D

[justasportsfan]

wys you and I know that I've supported Bryson , but our running woes go deeper than just the Rb's themselves. I would definitely want to see Bryson run an entire game. This game against the texans would be a perfect oppurtunity for him. Let's face it, it ain't gonna happen. I'm not even close to being impressed with Henry. It's too soon to blame Henry solely for our running problems either.

[Ð]

Wys, you talk as if the running game happens with the RB on an "island" as in the OL has nothing to do with his performance.

Our OL is simply not a good run-blocking OL yet. I don't know if they're telegraphing running plays by showing certain tendancies, but the holes just are not there.

Also, the Raiders have a pretty damn good run def...I seem to remember them stuffing Shawn Alexander similarily earlier in the season, a back capable of a 200 yd game on any given day.
Would you get rid of Sean Alexander because of a performance like that? (LOL...I traded him for Moss in my FFL)

[WG]

Just, how do you know?

Do you know that Bryson or Burns, or anyone else for that matter, couldn't perform any better?? It would be difficult to perform any worse.


B2R46,

"Runs"??

How about "Run!"

Like I said, since the Jets game, Henry has had 51 carries for 191 yards. W/o that single run, which clearly isn't due to his stellar rushing ability given the size of the hole that he had, he has 50 carries for 162 yards for a paltry 3.2 YPC average.

So while you base your assessment on 1 run for 29 yards and a YPC average of 29 yards, I will base mine on 50 carries for 162 yards and a 3.2 YPC avg., OR, since you insist, 51 carries for 191 yards and a 3.7 YPC avg.

So you are happy w/ 3.7 YPC then? OK! I didn't realize you were. That then includes your fabulous run of 29 yards, and Henry's shining moment in the past 4 games.

Personally, I'd like our primary rusher to be upwards of 4.4 YPC if possible. Since Henry didn't come close to that last year, nor has he come close to that this year, I see little hope of his developing into what many say he will become. He's actually playing, at best, the same as he did last year, which wasn't good.

[Ð]

Wys give your head a shake!

I guess you can take blocking out of the equation re Henry when he has a good run, but discount it when he's tackled behind the line of scrimmage because there was a missed block (or 2). :D

[WG]

FACT:

There are 24 running backs w/ a better YPC average than Henry so far this season.

FACT:

Since the Jets game for Henry, there are 32 running backs w/ a better YPC avg. than Henry.

Since the Jets game for Henry, there are 28 running backs in this league averaging more YPG than Henry is.

If Henry is soooo good, then why aren't the coaches giving him the ball more than 12-15 times per game???

Don't they know what they're doing?
Are they stupid?
What?

Or is it b/c he can't be relied upon to get much more than 2 or 3 yards if he even gains any??

I think it's the latter. You don't run a guy accepting runs of 2, 1, 0, -1, and -2 just holding on and hoping for that 20 yard gain every 15 rushes. That's just not what you're looking for in a RB.

I think it's long overdue that Henry hasn't performed even to an average standard that we explore other options regardless of what those are.

He's had more than ample opportunities. He'll play about the same v. Houston and Miami and will slowly slip from 11th in the league (mostly on the merits of his game v. the Jets) to around 20th over the next couple of weeks. Then he'll light up Detroit b/c we're up by 20 points and give everyone more false hope that he can do anything v. any decent team.

[WG]

Sure I can Doug. How about giving Bryson that same break though.

When Henry runs and sucks, it's b/c of anything except for himself.

When Bryson runs, or presumably Burns or another, it's purely and solely b/c they suck!!

I get it now.

It's sinking in...!

:D

[WG]

BTW Doug,

Go grab your tape of the game. Rewind it to about 11 minutes left in the third Q on a 2nd and 5 when Henry runs leftguard for 3 yards.

Take a look at the GLARING hole just to his left by about a foot or two. Then please tell me why on earth he ran into his own OL for a gain of 3 when he may have broken one very long please.

Was that that horrible OL again?? Or did Henry BOTCH it! Oh, I think we both know the answer to that one. Go take a look nonetheless. If that isn't the spot, just let me know and I'll go find it for you. There was at least one more just like it where he had NO GAIN when he could have had at least 5 yards, maybe more.

Henry's fault? Naahhhhhh! Why blame him when the holes are there, eh!

[Ð]

Wys, I'm glad you have the time to do a riduculously anal-retentive micro-analysis of every single play of all the games. Some of us have lives and have better things to do than torture ourselves (and others) :down:

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Just, how do you know?

Do you know that Bryson or Burns, or anyone else for that matter, couldn't perform any better?? It would be difficult to perform any worse.



when I said it ain't gonna happen, I meant that the coaches aren't gonna pick Bryson over Henry. As far as Bryson or Burns doing a better job, I don't know.

I've said it before, the coaches should give Bryson an equal oppurtunity to compete for the job. They haven't. However, Henry hasn't been given enough snaps to get better either. There's got to be a reason as to why they just gave Henry the job w/o giving Bryson a full game to show what he can do. I'm not at the practices so I can't say and neither can you.

All I know that so far, Henry is mediocre and no one knows about Bryson. I would want Bryson to start against the Texans but chances are they are going to use this game to let Henry improve on his game.

If Henry should fumble 1 more time. Sit his ass right beside Travis Brown.

[WG]

Just,

I simply can't imagine too many RBs in the league performing worse than Henry is right now. That includes both Bryson and Burns and anyone else who could be here including Huntley or Morris too.


Doug,

"Wys, I'm glad you have the time to do a riduculously anal-retentive micro-analysis of every single play of all the games. Some of us have lives and have better things to do than torture ourselves (and others)"

I'll take that as a concession that you see some merits in my "micro-analsys". :D

In the meantime, maybe I should embark on an educational campaign to educate the '02 Bills fans what a good RB actually brings to the table in the NFL. :D

[WG]

I guess in ways I already have and that's been overruled in favor of personal bias and favoritism and hopes based on "ifs and buts".

[Lori]

"Personally, I'd like our primary rusher to be upwards of 4.4 YPC if possible."

I'd like to win the lottery and make Ralph an offer for the Bills, too. And while we're at it, I'd like our defense to stop somebody. Anybody? Please?

But looking at last year's stats, only 12 RBs averaged 4.4/carry, and two of them were backups with barely enough attempts to qualify for the league lead. Did you know that of the fifteen 1000-yard rushers last season, eight of them didn't average 4.4 ypc either?

Henry is currently in 11th place in rushing yards. And to answer an earlier point of yours, every single one of the 10 RBs in front of him has more carries than Henry, some of them 30+ more carries.
He's listed at 25th in ypc. (QBs included on that list, incidentally - Vick is #2, McNabb #3.) Some of the RBs worse than Henry in ypc? Here's a few - Curtis Martin, Marshall Faulk, Duce Staley, Edgerrin James, Shawn Alexander, Tiki Barber, Jerome Bettis, Anthony Thomas, Warrick Dunn, Eddie George.....

Sorry Wys, but I'm having a hard time extrapolating your "he stinks" argument from those numbers.

(Edited to protect the innocent....)

[lordofgun]

What?? me?? I didn't say anything Lori!

[lordofgun]

Don't blame Wys' tirades on me! :lol:

[Lori]

Yup, sorry, my bad. :hitself:



I meant you, WYs!

[WG]

Just wait Lori.

I discount the rushing yards we got against the Jets who are allowing 190/game. We have gotten the lowest rushing total against them of any team I believe.

If not for that single game against what is shaping up nicely to be the worst rush D in the history of the NFL, at least in recent history, then Henry's no where near where you place him.

Also, check out some of the carries of other RBs. Green for example. He has only 6 more carries and has done so much more with them.

Cordially!

[casdhf]

You always discount the positives. I'm pretty sure if you take out all the good, you will be left with the bad.

[Lori]

:peace:
All in good fun, Wys. We just disagree on this topic, that's all. Nothing wrong with that.

But before you call the Jets run D the worst in league history - and yeah, I enjoyed watching Priest Holmes stack up megapoints for me against them this week - did you note that two of the top 10 backs on the YPC list have played against US? Merry Christmas, Charlie Garner - you should be thanking the Bills for your next contract...

[Earthquake Enyart]

I love it when wys gets beat up by women. :snicker:

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


In the meantime, maybe I should embark on an educational campaign to educate the '02 Bills fans what a good RB actually brings to the table in the NFL. :D




Please Don't!:hump:

[Novacane]

Let's take a look at your track record and see if you can figure out why no one agrees with you Wys.

1. Your continuous threads claiming RJ was a good QB! Nuff Said

2. Your continuous threads about Bledsoe sucking! Nuff said!

3. Now your on a trash Henry Crusade! Based on how your opinions played out in the past I expect Henry to run for 100yards per game the rest of the year!

[casdhf]

don't forget with his obsession that Travis Brown could be the starting QB for this team.

[Novacane]

Don't remind me casdhf! I was trying to forget that nonsense!

[doug45]

wys it looks like you are feeling better, glad to see it. How is the knee?

[4thAndLong]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Blah blah blah

Oakland leads the league with 59.5 yards rushing allowed average a game, what exactly were you expecting?

[Earthquake Enyart]

By the way I am psychic. My proof is that I started Jim Miller instead of a red hot Brady last week.

Bryson would do no better. Neither reads blocks very well, but Henry runs harder through tackles so he gains a little more yardage. The sweater vested OC has not figured out the stregths of his OL yet, as evidensed by his run play calling. And there aren't exactly gaping holes for the runs they do call. The OL needs to gel. The OC needs to figure out what will work. Then they will find that they have 2 very mediocre backs.

[RedEyE]

Henry averaged 3.9 YPC against the #1 ranked run defense in the league, the Oakland Raiders. If things do not turn for the worse during in the last quarter, he should have amounted about 100 yards. I believe that would have been the differencein the game. Henry is a back that pounds defenses, continually hurting them and wearing them down. The more he runs the better he gets, but it's necessary to allow him to build that momentum.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, Henry has not been given the opportunity to prove himself. The play calling is 85% passing, 15% running. In order for Henry to put up the kind of numbers that avid fans are expecting, the Bills are going to have to give the ball to Henry at least 25 x a game. As of right now, the Bills have handed Henry the ball only 82 x. Just over 16 carries a game. 16! Bledsoe has passed 218 x, or on average 44 x a game. Let's see, that would be just 1 running play for every 3 passing plays. In my book I would call that piss poor play calling ~ not Henry's inabilty to perform.

[casdhf]

But...you need to take out the 29 yard and 15 yard run...then he averages 2.3 which is terrible

[WG]

cas,

"You always discount the positives. I'm pretty sure if you take out all the good, you will be left with the bad."

Unfortunately for you, the converse also applies: "When you always discount the negatives, all you are left with is the good!" Eh?

Since Henry is more bad than good, I look at the truth of his play, I don't ignore over 90% of his play which is amongst the worst in the league to find one or two runs to then spout off that he's awesome as if those two runs define his season when in fact quite the opposite is true!


Lori,

As bad as our rushing D and overall D is, the Jets' rush D is still far worse. N.E., Miami, Jax, and K.C. all posted better rushing games than we did. So does Henry's performance against the Jets impress you? Me only nominally and less so since then. At this rate, the Jets will allow over 3,000 yards rushing. To put that in perspective, Carolina was the league's worst last year at 2,301 yards allowed rushing.

Which, Oh, by-the-way along w/ the Jets last year, were the only two 100 yard games he had!!


EE,

"I love it when wys gets beat up by women."

Me too! :D


B2R46,

"Let's take a look at your track record and see if you can figure out why no one agrees with you Wys."

Don't forget my "dead nuts" assessment of Flutie in opposition to everyone else. Or my call on Van Pelt last year which everyone all-of-a-sudden agreed w/ me on as soon as we signed Drew. Or My assessment of Dave Moore which seems to be ringing true now, eh!

Nice of you to mention the times when I'm right too! On Brown, he hasn't played, so I think it's a little out of line, and in keeping w/ the reasoning dismissing Bryson however, to malign players who really haven't even been given an opportunity! Nice of you to hammer on our backups w/o any cause or reason for doing so. I have infinitely more hope if Travis were to have to step in for Bledsoe that I would if Van Pelt did!


Doug,

"wys it looks like you are feeling better, glad to see it. How is the knee?"

Yes. Yes I am. :D Thanks! The knee is quite a bit better. Able to bend it some now w/o serious pain. I can sit normally. The hemorhoids are clearing up nic..., er a...., forget it!


4th,

"Oakland leads the league with 59.5 yards rushing allowed average a game, what exactly were you expecting?"

I was expecting more than 30 yards on 12 carries v. a Minnesota team that has given up almost 110 rushing YPG and who was amongst the league's worst last season. I also expected more than 12 carries for 35 yards for a 2.9 ypc avg. v. Denver.


EE,

That last statement on the RBs I would agree w/ you on for the most part.

[WG]

cas,

If you take out all the runs under 2 ypc and all the negative ones, he's awesome, averaging 20-some ypc. TOPS in the league I might add...

:D

[WG]

We should run him more! Based on that, he'd have several hundred yards per game.

I just don't understand why we're not running him more!!!

Why are the coaches lying to us and not giving Henry the carries. We could use 2 or 300 yards per game rushing. I'm not happy about this!

:rolleyes:

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by casdhf
But...you need to take out the 29 yard and 15 yard run...then he averages 2.3 which is terrible

Sorry, can't do that. You can't just not consider a play because it was longer then most. You can't negate a play period. A play is a play, whether Henry runs for 29 or -29. That's like saying if you take away Bledsoe's last 3 picks his rating would be higher. Duh. Every play counts towards an average, that is why they are called "averages".

[WG]

Indeed, and Henry is averaging less than 4 ypc which has always been the unspoken standard for RBs as to whether or not it is a good YPC avg.

[WG]

BTW, Henry is at about 3.7 or so in his last 4 games.

Ie., he can't run except v. the worst rush Ds as his play both this year and last will testify to.

I'm with EE. I think we need some RB help. In the meantime, I really wish the fans would start seeing Henry's performances for what they are and not for what they aren't or "could have been" if this or that would have happened/not happened.

Unless he explodes in the next three games, and I mean in each and every game, it's time to suggest that perhaps we need to deal for a RB next offseason or grab one in the draft.

In the meantime, we should do whatever will net us a running game this year. If that's platooning Bryson and Henry, then let's do it. If it's Burns Full-time, then let's do it. If it's Bryson Full-time, then let's do it.

I have no idea what will work. But it couldn't be more clear that Henry ain't cuttin' it! Not to even mention the fumbles which are literally killing us. No one has even mentioned those. We could overlook one or two of them if he was putting up good games. But alas, he isn't!

[RedEyE]

..and (see my earlier statement) that should reflect play calling not ability. It's too difficult to understand Henry's potential when he runs a measley 16 x a game. Very rarely will a back of Henry's stature roll 100 yards in only 16 carries. Again he is a back that must be used at least 25 x a game.

[Kelly The Dog]

hey wys, if we discount your best post, like you discount Henry's best game and best run, you would have no good posts at all.

But if we count all posts, and all plays, like the other seven billion people in the world do, you and everyone else would see that if Henry continues on this pace, he will rush for 1088 yards (on a paltry 262 carries), average 4.1 yards a carry, catch 64 passes for an additional 480 yards making a total of 1568 and score 19 touchdowns. All around, it will be one of the best years ever for a Bills running back.

[PA Season Ticket Holder]

If you take out Bledsoes 4 longest passes against the Raiders, then he only had about 275 yards on 49 attempts for an average of a paltry 5.6 yards per pass. We better get rid of him now. Time to throw in Travis Brown.

[Kelly The Dog]

Originally posted by PA Season Ticket Holder
If you take out Bledsoes 4 longest passes against the Raiders, then he only had about 275 yards on 49 attempts for an average of a paltry 5.6 yards per pass. We better get rid of him now. Time to throw in Travis Brown.

I think you're on to something, PA. Come to think of it, if you threw out Nicole and Ron Goldman, O.J. never really killed ANYONE.

[PA Season Ticket Holder]

Also....

Take away Drews games against the Vikings and Bears who have terrible pass defenses this year, then he only has 5 touchdowns and 5 interceptions. What a bum.

[PA Season Ticket Holder]

If you take away them other 10 slices of pizza from Anna Nicole Smiths meal, then she really didn't eat that much.

[WG]

:rolleyes:


PA,

Yeah, but Drew still has a good game in that case.


Kelly,

How much you wanna wager that Henry doesn't see 1,000 yards this season?

[PA Season Ticket Holder]

Hey Wys, I won a bottle of your wing sauce. How do I go about getting it? :)

[Kelly The Dog]

if he keeps getting 15 carries a game it will be difficult. But it's hard to argue with a strategy that you're scoring at will through the air. It wouldn't be a fair bet. I'm not sure which game you were watching but henry had several terrific runs all on his own, had a few nice catches and runs, didnt cough it up, is getting quite good if not very good on blitz pick-ups although he let Romanowski by him (IMO he held the block easily long enough for Drew to throw), scored another TD keeping up his more than one a game pace, and the only times he didnt gain yardage he was hit right away.

[WG]

What are you talking about. Nice runs? His longest run after his three of 8, 11, and 29 was 3 and it only got worse w/ several for negative and 0. 3 of 15 rushes were good. The rest left quite a bit to be desired. I think you're mixing in some of his passing plays.

PA,

Send me your address would be a nice start! ;)

[Kelly The Dog]

The passing plays are part of his job.

[PA Season Ticket Holder]

Henry hasn't done great, but he hasn't been god awful either. He's definitely are best choice right now.

[lordofgun]

If you take all the fruity out of my pebbles, that cereal is nasty!

[Michael82]

Hey Wys....Travis Henry is no Ahman Green but did u see Green today? He had 27 carries for 107 yards...4 yards per carry. Now, if you are allowed to take the longest run out of the picture....43 yards...thats 64 yards.

Ahman Green had technically (according to your rule) 26 carries for only 64 yards. That's a grand total of 2.5 yards per carry! :lol:

You can NOT take one big run out of the player's stats. That changes everything. If you take out the 85 yard catch for Donald Driver, then he only had 35 yards. You can't do it like that....sure you'll get a long run or catch once in a while....but thats where the players always get their yardage from. It's not just from 10 here, 8 there, 9 there...it's big ones, small ones, and a whole bunch of different amounts. :rolleyes:

[Lori]

Some thought behind the numbers. Now we can talk.


Originally posted by Wys Guy
BTW, Henry is at about 3.7 or so in his last 4 games.
Ie., he can't run except v. the worst rush Ds as his play both this year and last will testify to.
By those standards, neither can anyone else on the roster. Bryson's 2 100-yard games last season were against those same Jets (28th against the run last year, though not quite as brutal as this season) and the bottom-10 Falcons. That leads into your next point...


I'm with EE. I think we need some RB help.
Entirely possible. Personally, I'm still waiting for the next Thurman Thomas, and I don't see him on the current roster.


In the meantime, I really wish the fans would start seeing Henry's performances for what they are and not for what they aren't or "could have been" if this or that would have happened/not happened.
Unless he explodes in the next three games, and I mean in each and every game, it's time to suggest that perhaps we need to deal for a RB next offseason or grab one in the draft.
Fair enough. But I'm curious about your definition of "explode" - does that mean a 100-yard game? Higher? Or averaging 5 yards/carry? Or ripping off a 50-yard run (which probably isn't going to happen)? Or holding onto the damn ball? (One game in a row, let's shoot for two.)
If you're waiting for the second coming of OJ, you'll be waiting for a looooong time. If you're looking for an "average" RB, then we already have one or two of them....


In the meantime, we should do whatever will net us a running game this year. If that's platooning Bryson and Henry, then let's do it. If it's Burns Full-time, then let's do it. If it's Bryson Full-time, then let's do it.

I have no idea what will work. But it couldn't be more clear that Henry ain't cuttin' it! Not to even mention the fumbles which are literally killing us. No one has even mentioned those. We could overlook one or two of them if he was putting up good games. But alas, he isn't!
I'm with you 100% about the fumbles, but otherwise, Henry is the best Bills RB I've seen (other than Thurman, of course) since Antowain's rookie year. (For reference purposes, that year was also the last time I missed a home game.) You're saying that isn't good enough. You may or may not have a point.

All I know is, the Bills RBs are currently on a pace to set all-time team lows for carrys/yards in a 16-game season, even though their cumulative ypc average is the highest it's been since 1997. Is that the fault of the RBs, or does somebody need to start calling more running plays (no matter who's lined up in the backfield)? Or are we OK with watching Drew drop back 50 times/week, and taking a commensurate number of hits?

So there's the bottom line: you believe the reason our rungame is ranked near the bottom of the league is Henry's substandard performance. I don't see anyone better on the roster. I believe Henry CAN be an adequate RB, and that the biggest rungame problem I see is in the playcalling, not on the field.
One more number to back that up, then I gotta go: Bills are barely averaging 20 rushing attempts/game, and that includes WRs and QBs. Only the Rams and the Jets are averaging fewer handoffs (and you know what their records are). And I'm not blaming Gilbride for that - having to play catch-up all the time may have something to do with it, eh?

I don't care who's lined up behind Drew, that imbalance cannot continue... or #11's not gonna live long enough to see week 16.

[Drewpac]

Lori is God!!! Great post!!!

[WG]

Lori,

How do you know that Bryson can't do the job?

What evidence, based on games played, do you have.

Lay it out for us please! Not opinions, but facts, stats from games played. B/c as I see it, the chances of his having a good game are far higher than they are w/ Henry.

In the current system/coaching, etc., same as Henry, in games where he had more than 4 carries, Bryson had 70 carries for 291 yards and a 4.2 YPC avg. That includes the Miami game in which we got stuffed from top to bottom against a vicious D in payback for the earlier win that season.

But as I see it, last season, Bryson essentially had a similar number of carries in 4 games. In two of them he didn't play much worse than Henry is now, if even that bad. In the other two, the two w/ the most carries, 16 and 28, he had 237 yards and 2 TDs. That's about a 4.4 or 4.5 YPC average.

This year he really hasn't been given a chance. He had 11 carries for 31 yards and a 2.8 avg. which is about what Henry's doing.

So where's all this evidence that suggests that Bryson sucks?

What? 5 games, 2 of which he played outstandingly and the others no worse than Henry for the most part?

I just don't get it. Percentage wise, at least he puts up a huge game 40% of the time. That's better than Henry's average of 20% or so.

I'm not saying Bryson is the answer, but the way everyone "knows" that he can't do it when he's responded EVERY single time he gets the carries, is ludicrous.

I'm not holding out hope that you'll actually answer this, b/c no one has to date even though I've tossed it out over and over again. All I get is how Bryson can't do this or that. Well he did it in the two games last year where he got more than 14 carries.

To say that he didn't or can't is not to be intellectually honest here!

[WG]

"Henry is the best Bills RB I've seen"

That's a pretty sad statement then!

B/c if he were on any other team doing what he's doing "for" us, then we certainly wouldn't pay defending him any heed. Do you honestly think that opposing D.C.'s really go out of their way worrying about Henry? I don't. I think he's essentially inconsequential to them.

[WG]

I guess where you and others lose me is when you absolutely insist that Bryson not even be given a few games to see what he can do.

Why? Henry's averaging barely over 3 YPC and not doing anything on 90% of his carries. Certainly nothing to help us.

You don't think that Bryson can average 3 YPC??

Heck, if every single run was exactly 3 yards, I dare say it'd be an improvement over 1 long run and then 1, 0, and negative yardage after that.

I just don't see how Henry is "so invaluable" that we can't play w/o him for 2 or 3 games to see if on an off chance Bryson, or Burns for that matter, may possibly be better.

Henry hasn't helped us win one single game. In his only respectable performance, we lost v. the Jets!

He's done nothing to contribute to wins. He's helped us directly lose the Denver game though.

So why not the swap? What do we have to lose?

What? 13 carries for 41 yards w/ a long of 27 and 12 for 14 after that?

Why then not try Bryson, Burns, Morris, anyone??

Why?

[Ð]

"Intellectually honest" in a football discussion. :rofl:

Wys, I think you're missing the point of football/sports in general. :D

[Earthquake Enyart]

3 in a row again. Two minutes for obstruction - posting

We've seen enough of Bryson. Henry runs better between the tackles. Bryson runs better outside, but the OL hasn't shown the ability to block wide runs effectively.

It's would be nice to have a real halfback. Ricky Watters, anyone?

[Kelly The Dog]

I repeat. I repeat. I repeat. Fact. Fact. Fact. If Henry continues on this pace, he will rush for 1088 yards (on a paltry 262 carries), average 4.1 yards a carry, catch 64 passes for an additional 480 yards making a total of 1568 and score 19 touchdowns. All around, it will be one of the best years ever for a Bills running back.

Thems the facts, wys. And remember, if you throw out Nicole and Ron Goldman, OJ never killed anyone.

[John from Hemet]

I cannot believe you Wys....who I always considered to be a good poster would even write something like this....

- Take a look at the amount of running yardage the Raiders are giving up.....it aint much

- Take a look at who was in the middle of that Raider defensive line....Parella and Sam Adams...it doesnt get much better then that

- Take a look at Travis Henry's 80 plus rushing yards, add his receiving yards, add his touchdown, add his blitz pickup in the game......add it all together....

Now take a look at what Bryson did the week prior...where he fell down from the air of a defensive end swinging his arm at him....how the offense stalled once Travis went out....

You say you want a ball control back.....well....Thats not Bryson.....it sounds more like the back you are capping on...

Im very dissapointed to see a post like this...:(

[Drewpac]

WYS:
"He had 11 carries for 31 yards and a 2.8 avg. which is about what Henry's doing."

I don't know how you've drawn that conclusion. Wys, go look at the stats since you love them so much. Henry is averaging 4.1 ypc this season.

[Lori]

It's like this, Wys.

My take on your take: from what you've seen of Henry, you dislike his performance enough that you figure ANYTHING is better than his continuing as the #1 back. That's your opinion.

From what I've seen of both backs (not just this year; I'm considering their entire careers, short as they've been), I think Henry is better than Bryson. In fact, when they were sharing PT, I thought Sammy Morris was a better RB than Bryson. That's my opinion.

And that's all they are right now - opinions. I actually think you're dead right about the defense, and that with anyone but Drew at QB we're probably 0-5. We just disagree about the RBs, is all. And if there was nothing to disagree about, there wouldn't be any need for message boards/talk radio/etc., right?

But here's the bottom line - even though we disagree on his capability to do it, we both want Henry to kick butt, because we both want the Bills to win.

Peace.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Only took 107 posts to finally make some sense.

:hail: Lori

[WG]

FACT:

In all games prior to this year, career, where Bryson's had 16 or more carries, his lowest game total was 82 yards (19 carries) and his combined numbers are 63 carries for 319 yards for a 5.1 YPC average.

FACT:

In all games prior to this year, career, where Henry's had 16 or more carries, he's averaged less than a 3.0 YPC avg. in 4 (or 57% of them) and his combined numbers are 149 carries for 513 yards and a hefty 3.4 YPC average.

Those are FACTS!

[WG]

This year, Henry's had one great game, 1 OK game, and 3 below average and/or bad games. Unfortunately for him, his best game was against what is now shaping up to be the absolute worst rushing defense in the history of the NFL. Not exactly good credentials.

All you Henry-ites who are in this love fest w/ Henry will soon see that he won't be our starter for very much longer. Gilbride will have no choice at some point. He simply isn't contributing to games significantly at this point. At least not for our team.

[WG]

Which brings up a good point: He's done more for opponents than he has for our team.

It was his personal fumble that lost us the Denver game, or won it for Denver. It was also his fumble the kept Chicago in that game and allowed the game to be close.

We didn't beat the Jets, so his performance there went for naught.

If he'd have been able to run the ball, then perhaps Drew wouldn't have been forced to make those horrid throws last week to lose us the game v. the Raiders.

W/ "friends" like that, who needs an opponent's defense?

[Drewpac]

This thread sucks. It's time to put it to rest. Wys we know you hate Henry. That's fine with me.

[WG]

Don't hate him. He simply isn't doing the team any good.

Here are his carries from Sunday:

-3
-2
-2
0
0
1
2
2
2
2
2
3
3
8
11
29

3 runs worth anything. Most not!

[WG]

Here were his carries on 1st down:

-2
0
0
1
2
2
2
2
2
3
11

WooWee!!!

Look out Walter Payton!

:D

Maybe this has a little something to do with why Gilbride doesn't use him a bit more, eh!

[BillsNYC]

i think i figured it out!!!!!

the reason wys is so negative is cuz people will reply to all his negative threads and he gets zone bucks for it!!!!

i've unmasked him!!!!!!!!!!!

[WG]

LOL

Quite honestly, I have no idea how the zone bucks thing works anyway. I think people can deduct from your account based on whether they like your posts, no? If so, I'm sure I'm behind in the game... :D

Many of you do get all riled up however. I do post w/ clear intentions to get a response. I guess it works...

:D

[WG]

The house secrets...

[LtBillsFan66]

Who exactly turned on Henry?

[BillsNYC]

hahahaha!!!! great find BFO!!!!!

[LtBillsFan66]

Thanks. I uncovered a few other of wys maniacal posts. Enjoy.

[SoCalBillsFan]

wys will be the first to admit he was wrong about henry and is now one of his big supporters. I respect that he can be convinced about something and change his mind :up:

that being said, I nominate this for the classic thread hall of fame! THis was a great one!

[Schobel94]

lol yeah, it also shows how he is wrong... a lot. so that means Bledsoe is awsome! In Henry's first year he criticized him, and second praised him. Hmmm... will he be signing Bledsoe's praises next year?

[Tatonka]

roflmao.. i forgot how bad wys tried to bury henry with stats last year.

[Kelly The Dog]

That was hysterical. They should just tape it and scroll it for an hour on ESPN Classic Sports.

[WG]

Yeah, hilarious. Last year many of you were talking about Henry following a 700+ yard season w/ over half of his yards in three crud games as if he were the next Emmitt Smith.

Now, he's got all kinds of issues even though he probably tripled his level of play. He's got character issues, his fumbles are too costly, etc.

Funny how that works. And I'm one of his biggest supporters now that he proved me wrong.

Hey, at least I run on actual accomplishments and not pie-in-the-sky hopes and wims.

[Dozerdog]

That's why we brought in McGahee. To make a very good position on this team great.

May the best man win.


And the loser get traded for a #1 draft pick in a draft WITH DEPTH

[WG]

If McGahee sits next season too as many have suggested he should, why should Henry sign another extension?

I wouldn't and he'd be crazy to. He'll walk for free. We won't get a daggoned thing for him. The ball's really in his court, not ours. Even if he doesn't want to sign an extension, we will do what's in our best interests and what we were gonna do anyway, so why should he?

Would you sign another past '05 given the McG thing?

Why should he leave his fate up to the Bills when he can have a hand in determining where he goes. If we play hardball w/ a tag, Henry wins out anyway and we have two huge RB salaries.

[Kelly The Dog]

That's two full years from now. ANYTHING could happen before then. All we, the Bills, Henry, McGahee, and anyone else should worry about is the 2003 season. Get Henry ready and give him the ball. Get McGahee some rest and rehab. That's it. If he's fine at the end of the season, let himplay a series here and there to get his feet wet. Either of them could get hurt, or digress, or have personal issues, or fumble problems, and we will need the other to step in. I personally dont think TD has any intention of trading either of them, perhaps ever.

An wys, the reason many of us were arguing for Henry before he had accomplished 1400 yards was because our eyes were open. You could see he had enormous talent, drive, balance, toughness, etc. They just had to give him the ball and do a little blocking.

[Ð]

:lol:

[Patrick76777]

It's the "Take away his best runs" thread. My favorite!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Kelly The Dog
I think you're on to something, PA. Come to think of it, if you threw out Nicole and Ron Goldman, O.J. never really killed ANYONE.

hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[askabry]

Originally posted by Patrick76777
It's the "Take away his best runs" thread. My favorite!

Classic.

Somewhere, there's a thread where we look ONLY at the years Drew threw for 27 INT, or where we completely ignore the first eight games of last year ... or where QB XYZ (in fact, I'm pretty sure you can read Jeff Blake) only did such and such against those opponents but against winning teams did blah blah blah.

:shelby:

[Gunzlingr]

Come on! This is a year old, what is the point of bringing it back? Is it a new fad to dredge up old crap and pretend it is new? Just give it a rest already.

[Ð]

What part of bye week don't you understand ?

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by gunzlingr
Come on! This is a year old, what is the point of bringing it back? Is it a new fad to dredge up old crap and pretend it is new? Just give it a rest already.

Don't be such a party pooper.

[Patrick76777]

No Gunz, it proves a point! It proves that someone is fickle!

[Novacane]

Originally posted by askabry


Classic.

Somewhere, there's a thread where we look ONLY at the years Drew threw for 27 INT, or where we completely ignore the first eight games of last year


How about this deal. The people who don't believe in Bledsoe will not ignore the first 8 games of last year if the Bledsoe lovers stop ignoring the last 8 games of last year and the first 8 games of this year.

Are you saying your happy with a QB that plays well only 1/2 the time?

[Dozerdog]

Here's what I don't get-


You root for the guy because he's the QB-or whatever position he plays- and then people feel the need to attach a "stigma" or "Label" to it!

It used to be "Bills fan" now it's (player's name here) Lover!



I guess the RJ/Flutie thing really F'ed up a lot of you people. :shakeno:

[Gunzlingr]

Thank you Dozer! I want what is best for the team. I own 2 Bledsoe jerseys, and a McFarlane Bledsoe figure, but I think that the best thing for the team would be a different QB. TEAM FIRST!

[Patrick76777]

Dozer is right on again. I don't care who the QB is! I just want to watch my team. Hopefully they win, but if not, i'll deal with it. But I WILL NOT quit on my team after a 4-4 start and start looking forward to the off-season. I WILL NEVER DO THAT!

The player should never be bigger then the team!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Here's what I don't get-


You root for the guy because he's the QB-or whatever position he plays- and then people feel the need to attach a "stigma" or "Label" to it!

It used to be "Bills fan" now it's (player's name here) Lover!



I guess the RJ/Flutie thing really F'ed up a lot of you people. :shakeno:

:up:

[Ð]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
I guess the RJ/Flutie thing really F'ed up a lot of you people. :shakeno:

Nah. Wys f'ed it up.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by gunzlingr
Thank you Dozer! I want what is best for the team. I own 2 Bledsoe jerseys, and a McFarlane Bledsoe figure, but I think that the best thing for the team would be a different QB. TEAM FIRST!

Even so, why would you complain about it all the time! Not saying that you do, so don't jump on me!

[Turf]

Without reading every post in this bizarre thread, all I can say is how can you bash Henry when he doesn't get the ball?
I don't get it. It's a low blow in my book. I guess it's bye week.

[askabry]

Originally posted by Fairway To Green
Are you saying your happy with a QB that plays well only 1/2 the time?

What I am saying, from day 1, over and over again are these few things:

#1. It is a TEAM game. Before you rant about a player, look at the players around him. And for pete's sake, use statistics judiciously.

#2. As a corollary to point one, nearly everything needs to be viewed in context. Context to the players around them, the game, the playcalling.


Has Drew played well only 1/2 the time? I'd say the offense has played well only half the time, yes. Is that enough to boot him? Well, a year ago the NFL by whatever flawed means saw fit to honor him. On the basis of THIS particular thread... considering how it's author was willing to banish Travis Henry based on a limited time frame... and be hesitant to do the same based on one year.

He's not above criticism and from what I've seen he's been particularly bad lately. But when the team plays basically without its chief weapon for three weeks, has a bowling pin playing RG, has failed to establish the other WR because of his inability to catch, and has an OC that thinks it is perfectly reasonable to throw on 15 out 17 third and short downs .... well... let's just say the context is a little muddled to me.

[askabry]

Originally posted by Travis Hunter
Without reading every post in this bizarre thread, all I can say is how can you bash Henry when he doesn't get the ball?
I don't get it. It's a low blow in my book. I guess it's bye week.

Dude. You don't need to read every post in this thread, just know it was started a year ago by Wys calling for the ouster of our Pro Bowl running back.

The resurgence of this thread has nothing to do with Travis Henry and everything to do with embarrassing Wys.

[helmetguy]

Who ever dragged this rhread from the archives....THANK YOU!!!

It puts all of Wys rants and raves in perspective, and allows some of us "newbies" to afford his current rants and raves the credibility they are due!

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by helmetguy
Who ever dragged this rhread from the archives....THANK YOU!!!

It puts all of Wys rants and raves in perspective, and allows some of us "newbies" to afford his current rants and raves the credibility they are due!

Consider it a public service reminder.

[Ð]

;)

[The Spaz]

Henry sucks wtf? When did that happen. :wink: :lol:

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by askabry


What I am saying, from day 1, over and over again are these few things:

#1. It is a TEAM game. Before you rant about a player, look at the players around him. And for pete's sake, use statistics judiciously.

#2. As a corollary to point one, nearly everything needs to be viewed in context. Context to the players around them, the game, the playcalling.


Has Drew played well only 1/2 the time? I'd say the offense has played well only half the time, yes. Is that enough to boot him? Well, a year ago the NFL by whatever flawed means saw fit to honor him. On the basis of THIS particular thread... considering how it's author was willing to banish Travis Henry based on a limited time frame... and be hesitant to do the same based on one year.

He's not above criticism and from what I've seen he's been particularly bad lately. But when the team plays basically without its chief weapon for three weeks, has a bowling pin playing RG, has failed to establish the other WR because of his inability to catch, and has an OC that thinks it is perfectly reasonable to throw on 15 out 17 third and short downs .... well... let's just say the context is a little muddled to me.


Great post Bro!

Let's also remember that our 2nd best offensive player, Travis Henry was hurt early in the Miami game(the first game of our slump) he then missed the Philly game and played injured against Cincy. a game in which or BEST player on O was hurt on the the last play! So now we have our 2nd best player hurting and our best player out vs. the Jets! Henry plays well against the Skins but says he still hurts and Moulds doesn't even play! Moulds comes back and plays hurt against KC!

We've played two games with both players healthy and we're and impressive 2-0 in those games. Let's see what happens after these guys have a full two weeks to recover and are closest to full strength for the next game.

[zone]

Henry is a great back, and Bledsoe is a great QB like askabry said team game, if you don't know that then you have never played football.

Jim Kelly had plenty of games in his career that people bashed, I used to listen to non-bills fans day in and day out on what a terrible qb he was, and there were plenty of games that he did things that pissed me off. That does not take away the fact that he was truly one of the best to ever play.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by zone
Henry is a great back, and Bledsoe is a great QB like askabry said team game, if you don't know that then you have never played football.



Please! What does playing football have to do with anything?

Drew is not GREAT. Go ahead and make and arguement for good but GREAT? No way!

[zone]

Playing football has a lot to do with it, in order to fully understand something don't you think you might actually have to partake in it?

That's like saying you would let someone who plays a doctor on ER operate on you rather than a real doctor.

Just because you play fantasy football, Madden, or watch a lot of football on sunday does not make you understand the game. Being out on a field does!

[IHateTheDullphins]

Henry rules!:up:Bledsoe doesn't:down:

[Earthquake Enyart]

For those who think they miss wys. :snicker:

[PromoTheRobot]

For those who think they miss wys. :snicker:
The internet is great. People may forget the moronic things Wys posted in the past, but the web doesn't!

PTR

[BillsFever21]

Look at all the people who thought Henry was an elite RB though. That's the funniest part.