News Out of Houston

[BuffaloBlakely14]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/2407324

Story out of Houston that a team has agreed initially to the terms of the deal for Henson, also today news out of Buffalo says that the Bills are going to bring Henson in for another workout...in the story it says the team that agreed to terms would be bringing Henson in...very interesting..

[Bulldog]

Isn't Miami also bringing him in for another look?

[juice]

Miami or Pittsburgh?

[clumping platelets]

Ruben Brown and a 3rd in 2005 rumor true? :confused:

This would be a good deal for the Bills. Trade is the same as a release before 6/1. Same cap implications. The best part is that we would get something for Ruben and it clears future cap space

[Tatonka]

oh god, please no.. please please please no....

i do not want rob johnson jr..

please lord, hear my prayers!!!

[wbat27]

I wolud not say that I am willing to give the guy a chance. All we are losing is a overrated old guy and a future 3rd round pick.

[Bulldog]

Originally posted by Tatonka
oh god, please no.. please please please no....

i do not want rob johnson jr..

please lord, hear my prayers!!!


I really hope all this Rob Johnson Jr. talk blows up in your face! I just don't understand how you can make that comparison when the guy has yet to take a snap in the NFL. But Phillip Rivers is the second coming of Christ. After all, he really lit up the ACC for four years. And we all know what a football powerhouse the ACC is.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by clumping platelets
Ruben Brown and a 3rd in 2005 rumor true? :confused:

This would be a good deal for the Bills. Trade is the same as a release before 6/1. Same cap implications. The best part is that we would get something for Ruben and it clears future cap space

You heard that too huh.

[Michael82]

Oh noooooo! another Chris Weinke. NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! :sadwalk: :mad:

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Mike32282
Oh noooooo! another Chris Weinke. NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! :sadwalk: :mad:

Wasn't Weinke 27- 28-29?

[The Spaz]

I Heard from a source here in the Zone that Rivers was eager to prove himself to the NFL.

You think? Hei s afterall enetring the draft.

[ryven]

Ruben might be over rated but I would rather keep him then give him up for an unproven QB that hasn't played in three years. This my feelings Rubenmight be over rated but he is still a big part of the O-line and we can still get Rivers in the draft he is still unproven in the NFL but he is proven in college ball and thats more than I can say about henson.

[juice]

Originally posted by The Spaz
You think? Hei s afterall enetring the draft.

He also said the Bills Execs. were some of the nicest... I Know.. Nice dont draft QB's but at least you get an Idea of how his Mindset is towards the Bills staff.

You have the inside on Henson or something Spaz?

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Bulldog
I really hope all this Rob Johnson Jr. talk blows up in your face! I just don't understand how you can make that comparison when the guy has yet to take a snap in the NFL. But Phillip Rivers is the second coming of Christ. After all, he really lit up the ACC for four years. And we all know what a football powerhouse the ACC is.


i am comparing them because it is the same exact case as we had with rob johnson..

a guy with barely any playing experience at all.. but all the "potential" in the world... which usually translates to ****.

sorry that you can see the comparison...

i dont want the over rated, never done a damn thing, no good baseball player on my team.. thats that..

bulldog.. what makes you think that having 4 good games out of 8.. against all ****box teams, bar ohio state, and all this over the coarse of SIX YEARS makes him a good qb?

tell me that? what makes him so good.. because he hasnt ever been so good in games.. let me repeat that.. FOUR GOOD GAMES IN SIX YEARS... so in college, where he was playing against lesser competition than in the nfl, he only played well 50% of the time... why didnt his "potential" help him play better in college?

dont worry about it blowing up in my face.. because it will be years before this guy is ready to see the field anyway, and they could be in another state by then, while the 2 drews run the team into the ground.

you chose to base your opinion of a guy on the media hype that the fans are being doused with, and i will go with what the guy has done on the field.. which is absolutely squat..

[Bulldog]

I know T, and all the positive reports from the GM's and the scouts that attended the workout mean nothing. Your right, Henson sucks and should be crossed off the list. You go on and on about the on-field production, but what has Rivers done in the NFL? Nothing. Rivers would not be the first college QB to put up huge numbers only to flop in the NFL. At this stage of the game, Rivers is just as big a risk as Henson is.

[ryven]

the fact of the matter is Rivers is a more known QB he played all four years and he has been moving up in draft position since the senior bowl where henson played one season altough a very good season he chose baseball and has not played in three seasons and I think thats a big factor.

[mypoorfriendme]

i agree with clump the most because were very likely to lose ruben anyway and so we might as well get something for him. even if henson is a big risk, he is liable to be an even bigger reward. i would easily give up our third round pick for a potential gem.

[Romes]

Tatonka, I agree with you for the most part that we should not sign Henson. He is too big of a question mark.

However, do not compare him to RJ. One huge difference is that Henson would not be brought in to be the immediate starter. The time on the bench learning may benifit him a great deal. The way you make your point is as if he is gonna be our starter on opening day.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Bulldog
I know T, and all the positive reports from the GM's and the scouts that attended the workout mean nothing. Your right, Henson sucks and should be crossed off the list. You go on and on about the on-field production, but what has Rivers done in the NFL? Nothing. Rivers would not be the first college QB to put up huge numbers only to flop in the NFL. At this stage of the game, Rivers is just as big a risk as Henson is.

how is rivers just as unproven as henson? at least rivers proved he could do something in college.. which henson has not.. at least rivers has actually been a qb for the past three years.. which henson is not..

but this is not about rivers.. like you keep trying to turn it into.. this is about henson.. i dont care what qb we get.. i just dont want him.. and for all the GMs that you talk about that love the guy.. do you actually think they are gonna say he sucks? there are about 3-5 teams that are interested.. out of 32.. yeah.. tons of people think he is great..

talk about blowing up in your face.. what if this ****** loser decides that he wants to play baseball again, because he is tired of sitting on the bench and watching bledsoe ruin our team? then what? the guy stated adimately for 3 years that he was not gonna play football .. he was staying with baseball.. then all the sudden.. one day it clicked in his head.. hey, i suck ass at basebal.. i guess i will go find my next money ticket.. because i am sure that some idiot in the nfl is willing to play me more millions of dollars for those 4 good games i had in college... hell... i think buffalo paided rob johnson 25 million.. and he sucked ass.. so maybe i can get some money out of them.. now if i can just throw a ball around in shorts for an hour, people will be amazed with my deep ball, and i am set!

sorry i dont want to see the bills get duped like they did on johnson, and bledsoe, and collins, and flutie, and van pelt, and holbert.. and every other piece of crap qb that that we have had on this roster since kelly retired.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Romes
Tatonka, I agree with you for the most part that we should not sign Henson. He is too big of a question mark.

However, do not compare him to RJ. One huge difference is that Henson would not be brought in to be the immediate starter. The time on the bench learning may benifit him a great deal. The way you make your point is as if he is gonna be our starter on opening day.


jeesh.. you guys are so stuck on every little detail about the rob johnson comparison... i am not saying the situations were identical.

i will just put it this way.. i think henson will turn out the same player as rob johnson.. a guy that may look like he has all the tools, but never proved that he could do anything with them.. i dont want to have to suffer through that again.

[ryven]

Originally posted by mypoorfriendme
i agree with clump the most because were very likely to lose ruben anyway and so we might as well get something for him. even if henson is a big risk, he is liable to be an even bigger reward. i would easily give up our third round pick for a potential gem.

I am not saying Henson would not be worth it but he could turn out to be a good player but if Bledsoe turns it around he will be here another 2-3 years and by the time Henson Starts we will get about 2-3 years out of him and he will be 29-30 years old and the process will start again with Rivers he will have the the year or two to learn and he will still be young enough to start for a long time to come.

[TedMock]

It's all moot anyway. Any one of them could end up a bust or a stud and there's no real way to know until they're on the field. It is fun reading the points on either side though. Leaf, Couch, Klingler, Ware, Smith, McNown, Blacklidge, etc... Every one of these guys was supposed to be great. Guys like Bulger, Brady and Delhomme weren't. At least they all played up until they got drafted. Then again, Roger Starbauch took a 4 year break. You could go back and forth all day and not be right or wrong. All in all, my top choice would be Rivers but I wouldn't be upset with Henson. In either case, they're not ready to start anyway.

[juice]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i swear to god, your posts are the most worthless posts this board has ever seen. isnt there an acc board or something that you can go babble about basketball and acc **** too? no one cares. stop talking.

I noticed you like Rivers Do you think well take him with our first pick? Sorry thats an ACC Question.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by Tatonka
oh god, please no.. please please please no....

i do not want rob johnson jr..

please lord, hear my prayers!!!

Whats your deal man?

Coming out of college he was highly rated. Yes I know he hasn't played in awhile and yes I know he didn't have many starts at Michigan, but wait and see here. We don't even know the asking price yet. I know he brings thoughts of Rob Johnson to our heads but think of this. Johnson wasn't a highly drafted QB and had a southern Californians surfer boy mentality. Henson was a leader at Michigan and while he may be rusty he can take this year to get it back and challenge Bledsoe next season.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by TedMock
It's all moot anyway. Any one of them could end up a bust or a stud and there's no real way to know until they're on the field. It is fun reading the points on either side though. Leaf, Couch, Klingler, Ware, Smith, McNown, Blacklidge, etc... Every one of these guys was supposed to be great. Guys like Bulger, Brady and Delhomme weren't. At least they all played up until they got drafted. Then again, Roger Starbauch took a 4 year break. You could go back and forth all day and not be right or wrong. All in all, my top choice would be Rivers but I wouldn't be upset with Henson. In either case, they're not ready to start anyway.


your absolutely right.. i just prefer that we go after a guy (any of the top 5-6 qbs) that have actually proven that they can play.. henson has never proven that he can play... that is all my point is..

rivers or losman or clausen could all blow in the nfl.. but at least there is some home that they could do well because they have shown that they have done well in the past.. to me, henson has never shown a damn thing..

maybe i am over critical because of how bad the qb play in buffalo has been since kelly left.. so i am really praying that the next pick is the right one.. but no matter who it is, it is still a crap shoot..

and your right.. you can argue either way..

but if you want to pin your hopes on a completely unproven qb, there are tons of guys in the cfl and areana league that you can get for free that wont cost a high draft pick to roll the dice on... i prefer we dont go that route..

and as i have stated a thousand times... IF we get henson.. then i will support him.. if he does well.. then fantastic! i would be extatic and happy to say "MAN, I WAS SOOOOO WRONG ABOUT THIS GUY!"... that doesnt hurt me.. i mean what the hell.. i am not a pro scout.... i am a fan of the bills.. and i just want to see them win, no matter what the cost..

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
Whats your deal man?

Coming out of college he was highly rated. Yes I know he hasn't played in awhile and yes I know he didn't have many starts at Michigan, but wait and see here. We don't even know the asking price yet. I know he brings thoughts of Rob Johnson to our heads but think of this. Johnson wasn't a highly drafted QB and had a southern Californians surfer boy mentality. Henson was a leader at Michigan and while he may be rusty he can take this year to get it back and challenge Bledsoe next season.

i am sure he was a great leader....... for part of one season.

sorry.. my deal is that i just have not bought into the hype that seems to have possessed so many of you.

my bad..

i have a tough time just falling in line with all the mindless sheep that hears the media say "henson would have been... henson could be.. " and believe it as gospel.

[The Spaz]

I have an open mind!:miyagi::up::beer:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by The Spaz
I have an open mind!:miyagi::up::beer:

having an open mind is overrated. :D

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Tatonka


having an open mind is overrated. :D

:doh:

[Michael82]

The big problem I have is the fact that we'd be giving away our Pro Bowl guard, and have to fit Henson and a new LG under the cap, along with a C, another G, DE, and a CB, FS, and of course a WR. How do we expect to do that? It makes ZERO sense to get rid of Ruben Brown! ZERO!

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Mike32282
The big problem I have is the fact that we'd be giving away our Pro Bowl guard, and have to fit Henson and a new LG under the cap, along with a C, another G, DE, and a CB, FS, and of course a WR. How do we expect to do that? It makes ZERO sense to get rid of Ruben Brown! ZERO!


i agree completely.

[Michael82]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i agree completely.

Thank you!

Not to mention....Drew Henson had only played 6 games in the last 4 years! That's insane! He reminds me a Chris Weinke and scares me with that.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Mike32282
Thank you!

Not to mention....Drew Henson had only played 6 games in the last 4 years! That's insane! He reminds me a Chris Weinke and scares me with that.

sorry to interject with something to do with the thread topic, but i felt i must..

at least weinke won a championship and played for a few games...lol

[don137]

I am not a fan with Henson because while there is a big potential upside he is also the riskiest option to pick up. There is risk in any QB you draft or trade for but to pick up a QB on 8 games in 4 years your putting the position in a very precarious state. What has T, myself and many others worried is not many have much confidence in Bledsoe and if you pick up the riskiest option at QB you could be setting yourself up to having the QB position the achilles heel of this team for many years. It doesn't mean Henson will fail in the NFL it just means his experience or lack there of makes him very risky.

One other thing, you guys keep arguing with juice and quoting the worthless posts so having him on ignore I still have to see the insignificance posts...

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by don137
I am not a fan with Henson because while there is a big potential upside he is also the riskiest option to pick up. There is risk in any QB you draft or trade for but to pick up a QB on 8 games in 4 years your putting the position in a very precarious state. What has T, myself and many others worried is not many have much confidence in Bledsoe and if you pick up the riskiest option at QB you could be setting yourself up to having the QB position the achilles heel of this team for many years. It doesn't mean Henson will fail in the NFL it just means his experience or lack there of makes him very risky.

One other thing, you guys keep arguing with juice and quoting the worthless posts so having him on ignore I still have to see the insignificance posts...


i hate to put people on ignore, because everyone tends to have a valid point at one time or another.. but i think it is going to have to be done.. good call.

[HAMMER]

Originally posted by Tatonka


having an open mind is overrated. :D

That pretty much says it all, you might as well quit agruing with this guy. He is always a glass half empty guy, reminds me A LOT of Wys. Fact is he doesn't know any better than any one else who will or will not work out.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by HAMMER
That pretty much says it all, you might as well quit agruing with this guy. He is always a glass half empty guy, reminds me A LOT of Wys. Fact is he doesn't know any better than any one else who will or will not work out.


how am i always "glass half empty"???

because idont like bledsoe or henson?

sorry that every opininated person reminds you of wys.. but you know where the ignore button is .. dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[NC-BILLS44]

I thought the Bills had the 13th pick?

[Tatonka]

Edited for tos

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by Tatonka


i am sure he was a great leader....... for part of one season.

sorry.. my deal is that i just have not bought into the hype that seems to have possessed so many of you.

my bad..

i have a tough time just falling in line with all the mindless sheep that hears the media say "henson would have been... henson could be.. " and believe it as gospel.

Its all could haves and would haves with these guys. None of them have played in the NFL yet. I would rather have Rivers but it seems as if his stock is rising enough where Pittsburgh might take him at 11. Say Rivers is gone before we pick in round one, and that Henson is available in round two. Would you pick him there? I would. I think he has more talent than Losman or Clausen. I would say that I am a mindless sheep in this matter either. I watch all of his games back in 2000 and thought he was great. No one can say for sure if he can shake off the rust or not but I wouldn't be upset if we did get him.

[Michael82]

This is a Bills thread! Leave the Big East/ACC stuff out of it!

I split this thread into two. ACC people go here.... http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39236

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by HAMMER


That pretty much says it all, you might as well quit agruing with this guy. He is always a glass half empty guy, reminds me A LOT of Wys. Fact is he doesn't know any better than any one else who will or will not work out.

I wouldn't say that about T. He usually is pretty optomistic for the most part. It appears as if he doesn't like either Drew and that is his right. There are minuses associated with both so I can see where he is coming from.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
Its all could haves and would haves with these guys. None of them have played in the NFL yet. I would rather have Rivers but it seems as if his stock is rising enough where Pittsburgh might take him at 11. Say Rivers is gone before we pick in round one, and that Henson is available in round two. Would you pick him there? I would. I think he has more talent than Losman or Clausen. I would say that I am a mindless sheep in this matter either. I watch all of his games back in 2000 and thought he was great. No one can say for sure if he can shake off the rust or not but I wouldn't be upset if we did get him.


i dont mean to imply specifically that YOU are a mindless sheep.. but i bet you that the majority of these henson backers never watched game one of his...

if we get him fine.. i am getting tired of having to repeat the same thing, and getting blasted for having an opinion on the issue..

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
I wouldn't say that about T. He usually is pretty optomistic for the most part. It appears as if he doesn't like either Drew and that is his right. There are minuses associated with both so I can see where he is coming from.

thanks.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by Tatonka



i dont mean to imply specifically that YOU are a mindless sheep.. but i bet you that the majority of these henson backers never watched game one of his...

if we get him fine.. i am getting tired of having to repeat the same thing, and getting blasted for having an opinion on the issue..

I am not blasting you. I do have some of the same concerns. It would be a gamble I agree, but I think he still has some talent and would make that gamble.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
I am not blasting you. I do have some of the same concerns. It would be a gamble I agree, but I think he still has some talent and would make that gamble.

i wasnt talking about you blasting me.. it is the crybabies like hammer.... but whatever.... its a fan message board that is here to cheer and fight and whine and pretty much do whatever you want relating to the bills... some girlscouts dont get that... all they can do is cry "he is just like wys!"... rofl.

[DraftBoy]

Ok T, Im convinced to a certain degree, that I would not do this trade. You have convinced me and to be honest it was the baseball comment in an earlier post and Im just too lazy to quote it. Argue his points all you want but the #1 thing you want in your QB is consistency. Thats something Henson is yet to prove in either NFL or College or the minor leagues for that matter. I think Henson "could" be a good QB somewhere but not here. Do i think Rivers is the answer? Maybe, Losman? maybe, Clausen? Maybe. Ill give you my top 5 guys I want though:
1a. Rivers
1b. Losman
2. Clausen
3. Harris
4. Kent

I do not want: Smoker, King or Schaub

This is ridiculous fellas some like Henson some dont. I can see both sides some apparently cant. T admits there are some good points, but in his opinion and now mine there are too many questions remained unanswered. Would I take Henson? Yea but not for anything over a 4th round pick.

As for the other two who think this is ACC Country. I think this: Best football confrence Big 12, best basketball Big East. ACC football is boring! Big 12 is better, and if you think Im wrong then I wanna see one of those teams in the ACC apparent powerhouse go out and beat Oklahoma b.c there aint no way that happens. Also please take the talk off the Bills board and onto the College Football forum. I know all Im doing is fueling the fire with my comment above and Id be more than happy to discuss it with you in PM or College Football forum but no more here in the BILLS FORUM! Thanks

[Dozerdog]

OK people-

Attack the post, not the poster-



K?


Thanks

[DraftBoy]

Originally posted by Tatonka


talk about blowing up in your face.. what if this ****** loser decides that he wants to play baseball again, because he is tired of sitting on the bench and watching bledsoe ruin our team? then what? the guy stated adimately for 3 years that he was not gonna play football .. he was staying with baseball.. then all the sudden.. one day it clicked in his head.. hey, i suck ass at basebal.. i guess i will go find my next money ticket.. because i am sure that some idiot in the nfl is willing to play me more millions of dollars for those 4 good games i had in college... hell... i think buffalo paided rob johnson 25 million.. and he sucked ass.. so maybe i can get some money out of them.. now if i can just throw a ball around in shorts for an hour, people will be amazed with my deep ball, and i am set!


This was the quote I was talking about

[Earthquake Enyart]

I think that if they do this trade, it's certainly a vote of NO confidence for Bledsoe. You're not going to spend big bucks on a 25 year old QB and have him sit for 3 years,

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
I think that if they do this trade, it's certainly a vote of NO confidence for Bledsoe. You're not going to spend big bucks on a 25 year old QB and have him sit for 3 years,

Who says it's going to be a huge contract?

[juice]

Originally posted by Winfield_26
Ok T, Im convinced to a certain degree, that I would not do this trade. You have convinced me and to be honest it was the baseball comment in an earlier post and Im just too lazy to quote it. Argue his points all you want but the #1 thing you want in your QB is consistency. Thats something Henson is yet to prove in either NFL or College or the minor leagues for that matter. I think Henson "could" be a good QB somewhere but not here. Do i think Rivers is the answer? Maybe, Losman? maybe, Clausen? Maybe. Ill give you my top 5 guys I want though:
1a. Rivers
1b. Losman
2. Clausen
3. Harris
4. Kent

I do not want: Smoker, King or Schaub

This is ridiculous fellas some like Henson some dont. I can see both sides some apparently cant. T admits there are some good points, but in his opinion and now mine there are too many questions remained unanswered. Would I take Henson? Yea but not for anything over a 4th round pick.

As for the other two who think this is ACC Country. I think this: Best football confrence Big 12, best basketball Big East. ACC football is boring! Big 12 is better, and if you think Im wrong then I wanna see one of those teams in the ACC apparent powerhouse go out and beat Oklahoma b.c there aint no way that happens. Also please take the talk off the Bills board and onto the College Football forum. I know all Im doing is fueling the fire with my comment above and Id be more than happy to discuss it with you in PM or College Football forum but no more here in the BILLS FORUM! Thanks

Hurricanes, Seminoles, and the Hokey Pokeys, Boring yeah right.

Rivers is going to be worth the Money and Time Invested.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
I think that if they do this trade, it's certainly a vote of NO confidence for Bledsoe. You're not going to spend big bucks on a 25 year old QB and have him sit for 3 years,

Thats fine with me. It could be a win win situation. It may make them compete for the Job and maybe get Bledsoe to straighten out.

[DraftBoy]

We shall see on Rivers, if we get him I sure as hell hope your right.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by juice


Hurricanes, Seminoles, and the Hokey Pokeys, Boring yeah right.



I think you fail to see that most of us could care less about any of those 3 teams, therefore they bore us.

[juice]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
I think you fail to see that most of us could care less about any of those 3 teams, therefore they bore us.

This is where the best athletes in football come from, The future NFL superstars will come from the ACC including the Bills future QB?

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Winfield_26
Ok T, Im convinced to a certain degree, that I would not do this trade. You have convinced me and to be honest it was the baseball comment in an earlier post and Im just too lazy to quote it. Argue his points all you want but the #1 thing you want in your QB is consistency. Thats something Henson is yet to prove in either NFL or College or the minor leagues for that matter. I think Henson "could" be a good QB somewhere but not here. Do i think Rivers is the answer? Maybe, Losman? maybe, Clausen? Maybe. Ill give you my top 5 guys I want though:


i feel as if all my hours of typing have not been lost on blind eyes!

;)

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by juice


This is where the best athletes in football come from, The future NFL superstars will come from the ACC including the Bills future QB?

If you are talking about a player in general fine.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Henson doesn't throw that tight of a spiral. The wind at OP will kick his ass.

His release isn't particularly quick either.

But.....If they've made up their mind to get rid of Ruben, and they only have to throw in a 3rd, then we can draft and not HAVE to take a QB. It opens up the draft for other needs.

:dunno: either way I guess I' not that upset.... but I think any of the top 5 or so QB's in the draft this year are better than Henson.

[NC-BILLS44]

Originally posted by Tatonka


i feel as if all my hours of typing have not been lost on blind eyes!

;)

Me too. I've been saying we need a football player not a baseball player.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by NC-BILLS44
Me too. I've been saying we need a football player not a baseball player.

donahoe said that too.. lets see if he sticks to it.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I just don't see TD drafting a QB with that 1st pick. I have to have the feeling that he won't take someone that won't contribute this year. With the selection of McGahee last year the Bills can't afford to do that again. (taking someone that in all probability won't make immediate contributions) So you will have to take the top three guys out, Manning, Roeth., and Rivers. That leaves a pretty weak corp to take in the 2nd round.

By the way I seen someone quoted that certain individuals get blasted for not wanting a certain baseball/football player. Yeah, and you don't get blasted for wanting him.

[baalworship]

Drew Henson is a good prospect. No more no less. The fact that some GM's thought he was a top 3 pick a couple of years ago means he is TALENTED. Does he have the other intangibles? I don't know but getting rid of Ruben and a 3rd for an elite QB PROSPECT is a good move, IMO.


Now, I still LOVE Rivers. That guy already appears to have the intangibles needed to win in the NFL. But it's possible Donahoe likes someone else at #13 or that Pittsburgh nabs him anyway. I would rather have Rivers but Henson is a better prospect than Harris or Losman.

Let's see what happens and if we get an elite QB PROSPECT why not give the guy a year or two with QB guru Wyche?!

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by TheGhostofJimKelly
I just don't see TD drafting a QB with that 1st pick. I have to have the feeling that he won't take someone that won't contribute this year. With the selection of McGahee last year the Bills can't afford to do that again. (taking someone that in all probability won't make immediate contributions) So you will have to take the top three guys out, Manning, Roeth., and Rivers. That leaves a pretty weak corp to take in the 2nd round.

By the way I seen someone quoted that certain individuals get blasted for not wanting a certain baseball/football player. Yeah, and you don't get blasted for wanting him.


i agree with the first part of your quote ghost.. there is a good possibility that td wont draft someone that cant help in the first.

as far as your second quote.. just get to the point man.. say what your trying to say and dont beat around the bush..

if you are saying that i am bashing people directly for thinking we should get henson.. i guess i am just trying to reason w/ people by pointing out the facts as i see them.. but i dont think that i have provoked any bashing or namecalling unless it was first directed at me.

[TedMock]

Originally posted by baalworship
Drew Henson is a good prospect. No more no less. The fact that some GM's thought he was a top 3 pick a couple of years ago means he is TALENTED. Does he have the other intangibles? I don't know but getting rid of Ruben and a 3rd for an elite QB PROSPECT is a good move, IMO.


Now, I still LOVE Rivers. That guy already appears to have the intangibles needed to win in the NFL. But it's possible Donahoe likes someone else at #13 or that Pittsburgh nabs him anyway. I would rather have Rivers but Henson is a better prospect than Harris or Losman.

Let's see what happens and if we get an elite QB PROSPECT why not give the guy a year or two with QB guru Wyche?!

Sanity!!! :clap: :5:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by TedMock
Sanity!!! :clap: :5:

i am sane... :eek:

[NC-BILLS44]

:lol:

[Philly Zoner]

Yo have you you guys heard about that Henson guy that used to play for Michigan? I hear he wants to play football again. You think we should get him?

[Philagape]

I'm not the biggest Ruben fan, for he is overrated. But he's also a capable veteran NFL starter on the most important unit in football on a team that is weak in the interior. We can't trade that for someone who's a bigger unknown and therefore bigger risk than the several full-time college QBs coming out

[HAMMER]

Originally posted by Tatonka


i wasnt talking about you blasting me.. it is the crybabies like hammer.... but whatever.... its a fan message board that is here to cheer and fight and whine and pretty much do whatever you want relating to the bills... some girlscouts dont get that... all they can do is cry "he is just like wys!"... rofl.

Crybaby? Girlscout?

Suck it up Cupcake, Regardless of what unrealistically high opinion you have of yourself, you do not know everything. If the issue of Henson gets your panties in such a wad then why do you waste hours a day posting on the topic?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by Philagape
I'm not the biggest Ruben fan, for he is overrated. But he's also a capable veteran NFL starter on the most important unit in football on a team that is weak in the interior. We can't trade that for someone who's a bigger unknown and therefore bigger risk than the several full-time college QBs coming out

That is a valid point.

[juice]

Originally posted by HAMMER
Crybaby? Girlscout?

Suck it up Cupcake, Regardless of what unrealistically high opinion you have of yourself, you do not know everything. If the issue of Henson gets your panties in such a wad then why do you waste hours a day posting on the topic?

Good Point.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by HAMMER
Crybaby? Girlscout?

Suck it up Cupcake, Regardless of what unrealistically high opinion you have of yourself, you do not know everything. If the issue of Henson gets your panties in such a wad then why do you waste hours a day posting on the topic?

OK- this is the second warning.

Namecalling will cease.

If you disagree with each other's point of view, by all means debate your points on their merit.

But the next guy who tries to sucker the other into a fight by calling someone an idiot, cupcake, crybaby or whatever...will be given a time out.

Now both sides have been politely reminded of board ediquette. Attack the post, not the poster. Please do not cross that line again.

Thank You

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by HAMMER
Crybaby? Girlscout?

Suck it up Cupcake, Regardless of what unrealistically high opinion you have of yourself, you do not know everything. If the issue of Henson gets your panties in such a wad then why do you waste hours a day posting on the topic?


actually, i think i have stated on several occassions that i dont know it all, and that i could be wrong.. but people like you read what you want to and get out of it what you are looking for, regardless of whether or not you actually get the point.

you make statements like i am a "glass half empty" guy like wys ... it just shows how little you actally know about me or anything i have said.. or wys for that matter.

keep your rose colored glasses on.. i am sure life is good for you being a blind fan afraid to critique your team, for fear that the glass may not seem so full.

the issue of henson is entertaining to talk about.. if it got my panties up in a wad, then i wouldnt keep talking about it.. this s a fan site to discuss football.. this is not life... what does get annoying is when a guy like you thinks that you know everyone or everything because you read a couple posts by a person.

but what can you do.. opinions are like *******s.. i am sure your familiar.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
OK- this is the second warning.

Namecalling will cease.

If you disagree with each other's point of view, by all means debate your points on their merit.

But the next guy who tries to sucker the other into a fight by calling someone an idiot, cupcake, crybaby or whatever...will be given a time out.

Now both sides have been politely reminded of board ediquette. Attack the post, not the poster. Please do not cross that line again.

Thank You


i played by the rules. :D

[don137]

Let's just say for a minute we trade for Henson. Given the history of TD, and Rivers is some how available in round 2 does TD take him because he is the best player available?

[BillsFever]

Lets just not get any fantasy football QB's that put up good numbers and I'll be happy. I don't want a fantasy football QB.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by don137
Let's just say for a minute we trade for Henson. Given the history of TD, and Rivers is some how available in round 2 does TD take him because he is the best player available?

i would love to see that.. then we could argue about rivers and henson for an entire year! rofl..


Originally posted by BillsFever
Lets just not get any fantasy football QB's that put up good numbers and I'll be happy. I don't want a fantasy football QB.

:lol: classic.

your so "glass half empty". :tongue:

[BillsFever]

How is he just like Wienke? Because he played baseball?

Wienke was like 30 years old when he was drafted. Anyone who thought Wienke was gonna be a good NFL QB didn't watch many FSU games.

I've been an FSU fan since I was about 10 years old. I saw just about every game Wienke played. There was no doubt he was gonna be a nobody in the NFL.

I don't have a view on Henson because I've never seen him play. The only thing we can hope for is TD makes a better decision on his QB choice this time.

He failed with Stewart and Bledsoe. Hopefully the 3rd time will be the charm.

[juice]

ACC vs Big East was a better topic. But since its a Bills Board...

since we already have a QB I'd wait to see who's there in the second Rd. Rivers or Losman.

[BillsFever]

Originally posted by juice
ACC vs Big East was a better topic. But since its a Bills Board...

since we already have a QB I'd wait to see who's there in the second Rd. Rivers or Losman.

Dude, I'm an ACC fan too, but this is an NFL Bills board.

I like FSU in football and UNC in basketball. I don't need to promote it on an NFL board everyday though.

[juice]

OK Dude.. Lets talk about Real Time QB's like Rivers out of the ACC instead of out of work Baseball players like Weinke and Henson.

Talk about beating a dead Henson Horse.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i feel as if all my hours of typing have not been lost on blind eyes!

;)

I've been with you from the start on Henson. However, it isn't fair to compare him to RJ. RJ actually played college football for more than a few snaps.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by clumping platelets
Ruben Brown and a 3rd in 2005 rumor true? :confused:

This would be a good deal for the Bills. Trade is the same as a release before 6/1. Same cap implications. The best part is that we would get something for Ruben and it clears future cap space

No way. Houston is not in need of a Guard. Chester Pitts is really a G but is playing LT due to the fact that he is pretty talented but not ideally a T. Fred Weary is ready to start and was a first day pick in our first year and he is a LG. Milford Brown was injured last year and is a Guard. Steve McKinney is playing Center but is really a guard. Zach Weigert is a Guard. Todd Washington is a Guard also. The last thing we need is another Guard.

I hear the Bills, Packers and the Chiefs have the most serious interest. This thread is pretty funny. Way off base and Tatonka going manic over an obviously talented guy. Personally I hope he goes to the Dolphins and hammers you guys twice each year based on Tatonka's take alone.

[Dozerdog]

Welcome back, EB!

How's it going?

[BillsFever]

If Donahoe trades for Henson, I can gurantee you he won't be sitting on the bench for no 2 or 3 years.

He'd be what, 27-28 years old when he got his first shot? If he does trade for him he will be starting by next year at the latest.

Sure, most teams would love to have their highly rated rookie QB sit 2 or 3 years before starting him. With the exception of Pennington, how many teams have actually done it?

Carr started his rookie year. Harrington started his rookie year. Vick played some his first year, started his 2nd. Ramsey started his first year. Palmer will PROBABLY start in the 2004 season. Culpepper was playing his first year. McNabb started his 1st year. Brees started his 2nd year. Leftwich took over the starting reigns about week 4 of his first year.

Sure, it's a great thought but it doesn't happen in the NFL anymore. Whoever TD grabs this year will be starting by 2005 at the latest.

[Dozerdog]

I know it won't happen- but if anyone needs to get to NFL Europe this spring it's Henson.

Knock off the rust, answer some questions, get in football shape.



But I'm sure Henson has seen enough minor league action by now

[THATHURMANATOR]

Originally posted by don137
Let's just say for a minute we trade for Henson. Given the history of TD, and Rivers is some how available in round 2 does TD take him because he is the best player available?

That won't be a problem. Rivers is gone way before that.

[Bert102176]

he will be with either Miami or Pittsburgh if we get him were F*&%@

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by Bert102176
he will be with either Miami or Pittsburgh if we get him were F*&%@
I understand that. Anytime you get a guy considered an elite prospect you are Fooked. Gawd you guys are brilliant. KC and GB is much more likely than Pittsburgh also BTW.

BTW, the prevailing rumor du Jour is a 3rd round pick this year and another pick next year that is contingent on his PT. I like how you guys panic when your imaginary scenarios are thrown out.

Hey Dozier....wazzup

[Dozerdog]

....sup.


Actually- I just wrote an article for the site - should be up in a day or two-

Drew Henson has played a pivital role in the A-Rod deal, Red Sox aggrevation, Bledsoe to Buffalo, and other stuff.

[Expansion Blues]

Well, one thing for sure ... he is the most talked about 6th round pick ever. I don't think we will ever see a guy taken 192nd overall sending guys like Tatonka into manic episodes again.

I am sure I will enjoy reading your piece. Always good stuff. :beers:

[Dozerdog]

Well, not since Bo Jackson was drafted for a second time (6th round) anyway.

Casserly played this one perfectly.

[Dicknoze69]

Ok, now I know I am the ultimate lurker and I rarely post, but I do have a pretty good feel for this site and the posters.

Tatonka is usuallyright on his assessments, and he backs them up with a good amount of evidence. He doesn't bore us to death with stats (Wys), but he gives us good ideas for us to make our own decisions.

Now as for Henson, I think he is a GOOD, not elite prospect. He can throw a great spiral with good arm strength accurately in a controlled environment. He looks and acts like the prototype NFL QB. Does this make him a good bet to be a good NFL QB?

No. He has an extremely small sample size of real games with which we can make a definite judge of how worthy he is to be our next QB. He did not play much at Michigan, which is the main problem here. It's extremely difficult to project how he would do in a real NFL game, even though he has all the physical attributes one could hope for.

What does bother me very much is that it appears his first love is baseball. I really don't think he is coming back to the NFL for a paycheck...I think he thinks he can be more successful playing football than baseball, as evidenced by his failed venture into baseball.

I think there are many other QB's available to the Bills that can be judged more accurately in terms of game film and college performance. These QB's (Losman, Rivers, Clausen) have a huge sample space of games to judge them by. They are not so much a gamble as Henson is.

TD and Co. are in need of a QB of the future, and they are exploring all possible options with all due process.

[Dicknoze69]

Sorry for the long post

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Dicknoze69
Sorry for the long post

:rofl:

And a good one it was!

Henson is taking a paycut, he collected half of a $17 million deal in 3 seasons from George Steinbrenner .

I can't see him getting close to that on his first contract

[Mr. Miyagi]

Excellent post Dick!!! :up:

[The Natrix]

The Bills need to decide who the best QB is, and get him. If they think Rivers has a slight edge on Henson, but decide to go with Henson because they feel that they will be giving up less than the #13 pick (RB and a #3 or whatever) they are making a huge mistake. Of all the teams in the NFL, the Bills are in the most dire need of a real QB that will be in Buffalo for at least 10 years. RJ, Flutie, Billy Joe, Bledsoe, Collins: one big joke. Obviously Manning and probably Roethlisberger are not a possibility without giving up a ton. However, IMO the #13 pick is not giving up a lot, when it could mean having a real QB who spends all/most of his career in a Bills uniform and retires a Bill. This organization and these fans need this, whether they know it or not. So if this organization thinks there is one or more QBs that can be had at #13 that are better than Henson, they should not think twice about going that route.

[wbat27]

i AGREE BUT RIVERS IS GOING TO BE A FIRST ROUNDER. BASICLY ALL HENSON WOULD COST WOULD BE RUBEN AND A 2005 3RD IF THAT IS TRUE ITS A BIG DIFFERENCE IN MY EYES

[The Natrix]

I also think it is a pretty big difference. But that is exactly my point. The need for a long term future QB IS OF SUCH IMPORTANCE that they should use the #13 on Rivers or Losman if they think one or both are better than Henson.

99% of the time I am all for selection based on value, but this is not one of those times.

[elltrain22]

He may be a good qb, ya never know, but it is a huge gamble.

[The Natrix]

.

[Expansion Blues]

13th pick? THE rumor in Houston is a 3rd rounder and a 2005 pick. I think you guys are freakin WAY out for nothing.

Forget the RUBEN rumor too. That just ain't gonna happen. We just do not need an interior lineman.

[Expansion Blues]

sorry, accidental double post

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
13th pick? THE rumor in Houston is a 3rd rounder and a 2005 pick. I think you guys are freakin WAY out for nothing.



what the hell are you talking about?

[Expansion Blues]

I donno, what the HELL are you cussing about?

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
13th pick?

Vague

[Expansion Blues]

One word post and you call ME vague? What kind of dimwit are you anyway?

[The Natrix]

Easy there, I wasn't trying to sound like an *******, just wanted to know what you meant by it.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
This thread is pretty funny. Way off base and Tatonka going manic over an obviously talented guy. Personally I hope he goes to the Dolphins and hammers you guys twice each year based on Tatonka's take alone.

personally, i hope your right.. i hope he goes to the dolphins... he couldnt do better than fiedler has against us.. lol

i just wanted to say... great job on backing up your point.. you really drove it home there.. "henson is a talented guy"... WOW.. YOUR BRILLIANT! thanks for the insight.. i have changed my mind.. DRAFT HENSON NOW! rofl..


Originally posted by Expansion Blues
Tatonka into manic episodes again.



what exactly are you referring to? i am a little lost.. unless debating washed up minor league baseball players being our future franchise qb is going manic...

again.. thanks for the great points you make.. i love having posters come over and give us something to think about.

just curious.. if henson is the next brett farve.. why dont you get rid of the scrub you have at qb now? :snicker:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
What kind of dimwit are you anyway?


ok dozer.. warn this guy... the tos violation alarm just went off.. :snicker:

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by The Natrix
Easy there, I wasn't trying to sound like an *******, just wanted to know what you meant by it.

Well, what I meant was simple. I MISTAKENLY took a post wrong and was going to correct it but you chime in and tell me, "what the hell am I talking about. I was going to change it but I get involved with your highly intellectual exchange instead...

Debating Rivers at 13 or Henson for your first is ridiculous because from everything I have heard here in Houston is we are looking for a 2 or 3 this year and a conditional 2005 pick....

Tatonka or whatever his name is comes over to the Houston MB and dog-cusses Henson like anyone in Houston gives a damn about him. It's not like he is a Houstonian or is going to play for our team. He is going around acting like he is Nostradamous. It's just gotten old. You, or me or Tatonka has zero clue to how well Henson will develop. Casserly's Washington franchise took a former baseballer several years ago and won a Super Bowl. He claims Henson blows Jay Schroeder away in talent and I think I will "buy" that. I'd be willing to bet he is not as good a QB as Rodger Staubach or as bad a QB as Chad Hutchenson (two guys who were out of Football for a few years also). That does not make him Rob friggin' Johnson just because YOU guys were duped into watching him take snaps for your team.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by Tatonka



ok dozer.. warn this guy... the tos violation alarm just went off.. :snicker:
Well, go run and tell Mommy. Perhaps I can work out a corner to sit in. You guys want to start cussing me and I call you a "dimwit". Ban me if you wish. Have at it.

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues


Debating Rivers at 13 or Henson for your first is ridiculous because from everything I have heard here in Houston is we are looking for a 2 or 3 this year and a conditional 2005 pick....



I agree, drafting Henson at #13 would be a terrible move. I never saw any mention of doing so, but I may have missed it.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues

Tatonka or whatever his name is comes over to the Houston MB and dog-cusses Henson like anyone in Houston gives a damn about him. It's not like he is a Houstonian or is going to play for our team. He is going around acting like he is Nostradaumous. It's just gotten old. You, or me or Tatonka has zero clue to how well Henson will develop.

did i actually come over to your board and dog the guy? i really dont remember that.. hmm.

well.. regardless.. what your saying is i came over to your board once, and it has gotten old.. ok.. gotcha.. idea then.. go home.. wonder if you have any motivation for touting the baseball scrub? hoping for a higher pick maybe.. obviously.. so your not gonna sit around and say the guy sucks.. if he is so great.. again.. i ask.. why get rid of him.. if brett farve is on your roster.. you dont just throw him away for a 3rd rounder.. especially when your starter is nothing special..


Originally posted by Expansion Blues
Well, go run and tell Mommy. Perhaps I can work out a corner to sit in.

wow.. thats a good one... very witty.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by The Natrix


I agree, drafting Henson at #13 would be a terrible move. I never saw any mention of doing so, but I may have missed it. Hence the part where I glossed over some of the posts and was going to change my original post, but you guys hit this board fast and hard...

Anyhoo, no biggie.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
Well, go run and tell Mommy. Perhaps I can work out a corner to sit in. You guys want to start cussing me and I call you a "dimwit". Ban me if you wish. Have at it.

aw.... did some one say H E double hockey stick in a post directed at you... talk about getting manic... rofl.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by Tatonka


aw.... did some one say H E double hockey stick in a post directed at you... talk about getting manic... rofl.
You are the guy "telling on me" like some kid. I'm just saying I can come back at you guys like you come at me. Perhaps you may not understand what the term "off-topic" means. How bout some more Henson Mania?

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
Tatonka or whatever his name is comes over to the Houston MB and dog-cusses Henson like anyone in Houston gives a damn about him.

funny.. i just went to your message board.. and searched my old posts.. i have been involved with 2 threads.. one about ted washington.. where i was nothing but polite... and i made one comment about my personal opinion on henson.. and the other posters there responded with some light hearted joking.. no one even got bent out of shape.. well.. except you.. who came here to whine on our board.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2788

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
Hence the part where I glossed over some of the posts and was going to change my original post, but you guys hit this board fast and hard...

Anyhoo, no biggie.

:peace:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
You are the guy "telling on me" like some kid. I'm just saying I can come back at you guys like you come at me.

dude.. it was friggin joke.. lighten the hell up.. please..

if you would have read the rest of the thread.. you will see that i was referring to a warning that i got earlier for something fairly similar..

sheeeshh.. and your still calling me manic..

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by Tatonka
especially when your starter is nothing special..

cough, cough, Drew Bledsoe, cough, cough. Like you guys have room to talk.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by Tatonka
did i actually come over to your board and dog the guy? i really dont remember that.. hmm.

OK, I have you confused ....You were only talking about Ted Washington on the HPF board. I was refering to some guy on the "official" unmoderated board.

My appoligies...for that.


Originally posted by Tatonka
wonder if you have any motivation for touting the baseball scrub? hoping for a higher pick maybe.. obviously...

This may be new news to you but guys posting on a message board has zero bearing on a prospects worth.



Originally posted by Tatonka
if he is so great.. again.. i ask.. why get rid of him.. if brett farve is on your roster.. you dont just throw him away for a 3rd rounder.. especially when your starter is nothing special..

Um, Henson is not on our roster. He won't sign with us. We have nothing to "get rid of" because he has to sign to be a "Texan". Personally I think the term "throwing away" is not really associated with taking the 192nd pick and turning it into a couple of first day draft choices.

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues





This may be new news

As opposed to just news?

[Expansion Blues]

:freaklove

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by The Natrix


As opposed to just news? Sure, you can have news, old news, and new news. So, I guess this would be "new" news.

[socalfan]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues

Um, Henson is not on our roster. He won't sign with us. We have nothing to "get rid of" because he has to sign to be a "Texan". Personally I think the term "throwing away" is not really associated with taking the 192nd pick and turning it into a couple of first day draft choices.

If you don't sign him, how do you expect to trade him? I take it you don't understand what the Texans are trying to do here.

[The Spaz]

Can't you just trade someone's rights? The Texans are just trying to get something for him= and it will be for more than a 6th round pick that is for sure.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by socalfan


If you don't sign him, how do you expect to trade him? I take it you don't understand what the Texans are trying to do here.

It's called a "sign and trade". It's probably over your head.

[socalfan]

I don't think so. That is why TD is saying this is a complex issue. They have to sign him. That contract is the contract that the trading team will inherit.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by socalfan
I don't think so. That is why TD is saying this is a complex issue. They have to sign him. That contract is the contract that the trading team will inherit.
It's really pretty dern simple. IMG will work out a contract with the team Henson will go to. The Texans sign Henson to the contract that the two parties agree on. The teams trade.

[socalfan]

So EB if you know what a sign and trade is...why did you post that Henson wouldn't be a Texan? As soon as he is signed he belongs to you. At that point you could keep him and trade Carr.

[The Spaz]

WHy would they want to trade Carr? They only took Henson knowing they would be able to get something for him they ahd no intention on him being part of their future especially at QB.

[Dozerdog]

In theory, the Texans can do 2 things-


Trade the rights- which wouldn't net very much for the Texans

..Or when Henson works out- his agent will then negotiate a deal with the interested party-sign with the Texans, then the Texans trade him.

Here's a big problem-

He's a 6th round pick. He will be slotted to earn $250-$300 K at the most. (That's all the rookie cap will allow) Any other deal probably won't include a large signing bonus- since the Texans would have to eat it (all bonus paid gets accelerated into the cap at the time of the trade)

I'm thinking any deal would be for conditional picks in a future draft, because the team getting Henson would need to resign him for more than a paltry 300K and for a longer term. The team that trades for him would want assurances he will sign a long term deal.

It's very complex.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by socalfan
So EB if you know what a sign and trade is...why did you post that Henson wouldn't be a Texan? As soon as he is signed he belongs to you. At that point you could keep him and trade Carr.
First of all the Texans value Carr more than you guys think (more than I do too I should also add). Secondly with the cap like it is Carr's 60 MILLION dollar contract has cap consequences and while I am not a cap guy I think that we would take a big hit with the acceleration clauses.

Henson will not sign a contract to back up Carr and he has openly stated that he DESIRES a sign and trade as opposed to going into the draft so its a moot point as to Henson being a "Texan".

[socalfan]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
In theory, the Texans can do 2 things-


Trade the rights- which wouldn't net very much for the Texans

..Or when Henson works out- his agent will then negotiate a deal with the interested party-sign with the Texans, then the Texans trade him.

Here's a big problem-

He's a 6th round pick. He will be slotted to earn $250-$300 K at the most. (That's all the rookie cap will allow) Any other deal probably won't include a large signing bonus- since the Texans would have to eat it (all bonus paid gets accelerated into the cap at the time of the trade)

I'm thinking any deal would be for conditional picks in a future draft, because the team getting Henson would need to resign him for more than a paltry 300K and for a longer term. The team that trades for him would want assurances he will sign a long term deal.

It's very complex.

There is an additional piece to it....they have to be under the rookie salary cap for the year in which he was drafted. That will further restrict what he will get in year 1.

[The Spaz]

Yewah you may concider Hensona Texan for about 30 seconds until he goes on a plane headed to somewhere else.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
In theory, the Texans can do 2 things-

Trade the rights- which wouldn't net very much for the Texans

..Or when Henson works out- his agent will then negotiate a deal with the interested party-sign with the Texans, then the Texans trade him.

Here's a big problem-

He's a 6th round pick. He will be slotted to earn $250-$300 K at the most. (That's all the rookie cap will allow) Any other deal probably won't include a large signing bonus- since the Texans would have to eat it (all bonus paid gets accelerated into the cap at the time of the trade)

I'm thinking any deal would be for conditional picks in a future draft, because the team getting Henson would need to resign him for more than a paltry 300K and for a longer term. The team that trades for him would want assurances he will sign a long term deal.

It's very complex.

First of all I do not think the Texans can trade his rights anymore. There was a deadline for that and it has passed. Casserly claims to have the contract sturcture all worked out for the secondary team. He said that Henson will be able to get simillar compensation as if he were a first round pick this year.

[socalfan]

Originally posted by The Spaz
WHy would they want to trade Carr? They only took Henson knowing they would be able to get something for him they ahd no intention on him being part of their future especially at QB.


Well, it sounded like EB was saying that he thinks Henson is talented and he seemed to be saying that Henson was more talented than a superbowl QB. So, that means to me that EB thinks Henson is going to take someone to the superbowl. If so, why trade him?

If you look at Carr's stats, do you think he will take someone to the superbowl, or do you think he is going to be too beat up with all those sacks to be able to get someone to the superbowl? And I'm not sure that the sacks are the result of Carr's inability to make a quick decision with the ball in his hands.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by The Spaz
Yewah you may concider Hensona Texan for about 30 seconds until he goes on a plane headed to somewhere else.
Who cares? What makes you think it matters to us? As fans we just want all the picks we can get for the guy. We can only start one QB at a time and Carr is our guy. Good or bad.

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues

Who cares? What makes you think it matters to us? As fans we just want all the picks we can get for the guy. We can only start one QB at a time and Carr is our guy. Good or bad.


Umm I was not talking to you. I was just saying to socal that he may concider Henson a Texan for 30 seconds until he gets on a plane headed to somewhere else.

[The Natrix]

Originally posted by The Spaz



Umm I was not talking to you.

:rofl:

[The Spaz]

Originally posted by socalfan



Well, it sounded like EB was saying that he thinks Henson is talented and he seemed to be saying that Henson was more talented than a superbowl QB. So, that means to me that EB thinks Henson is going to take someone to the superbowl. If so, why trade him?

If you look at Carr's stats, do you think he will take someone to the superbowl, or do you think he is going to be too beat up with all those sacks to be able to get someone to the superbowl? And I'm not sure that the sacks are the result of Carr's inability to make a quick decision with the ball in his hands.

What is this the Texans 3rd year in existance they have a lot of holes to fill and of of the biggest is still the offensive line. The Texans drfated Carr as their first ever draft pick and concider him their franchise right now.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by socalfan
Well, it sounded like EB was saying that he thinks Henson is talented and he seemed to be saying that Henson was more talented than a superbowl QB. So, that means to me that EB thinks Henson is going to take someone to the superbowl. If so, why trade him?

Because he won't sign with us to back up Carr. He was taken to give an EXPANSION team more picks. Is that too tough a concept for you guys?


Originally posted by socalfan
If you look at Carr's stats, do you think he will take someone to the superbowl, or do you think he is going to be too beat up with all those sacks to be able to get someone to the superbowl? And I'm not sure that the sacks are the result of Carr's inability to make a quick decision with the ball in his hands

You guys are so weak its silly. You are taking shots at a second year QB because you can't grasp a sign and trade? Personally, I'm not that high on Carr but he is a second year guy. Since you know football so well then tell me how Carr being sacked ONLY 15 times last year is worse than Bledsoe was sacked 49 times?

Next brainiac statement????

[socalfan]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
Because he won't sign with us to back up Carr. He was taken to give an EXPANSION team more picks. Is that too tough a concept for you guys?


Why sign him to back up Carr? Sign him to replace Carr.

[cland]

Geez tatonka, here I thought I had recruited us a bills fan to lobby for buffalo's #13...... ;)


I thought I'd throw in a few counterpoints regarding drew henson.

--It seems some have latched on to the fact that Henson only started 8 games as a reason why Henson shouldn't be considered a first round choice.

Had henson come out his junior year (even after starting only 8 games) I believe it was the consensus that he would have been selected in the top half of the first round, with many speculating that he would have been towards the very top of his draft class. My point being that henson is no more of an unknown now then he was when many scouts were projecting he would go high in the first.

Also, those who are saying that Henson only played in 8 college games are incorrect. As a sophmore Henson challenged senior Tom Brady for the starting quarterback job, so much so that he and Brady split the position in several games that season. In the end, the michigan coaches chose the greater respect Brady had earned with the upper-classmen, over young Henson's greater athleticism and (perceived) potential. Point being that while henson started only 8 games, he did have more playing time then that number suggests.

--If both Phillip Rivers and the 2001 version of Drew Henson (having left michigan as an underclassmen) were in the same draft, I think that most scouts would tell you that Henson would go well above Rivers. Assuming you subscribe to that, then you can say that Rivers may start sooner then Henson, but I don't think it's valid to say that in the long-term Rivers is more probable to be a high-caliber franchise quarterback then Drew.

--Final point: It is generally agreed upon that a 2005 2nd rd pick has a value of a 2004 3rd round pick. (2005 1st = 2004 2nd, etc. etc.) So those 'offering' a 2005 2nd are offering the same value as a 2004 3rd round pick. In my opinion, if Henson returns to the draft he never sees the second round let alone the 3rd. According to the well-respected draft site gbnreport.com henson rates as the 13th most valuable player in the 2004 draft. It seems that his value is well above that of a third round draft pick.

(ps. these are some thoughts I had previously posted on another board so they aren't directed specifically to the points you've made)

[Dozerdog]

Blues-

Please try not to insult the individuals- If there is a point you want to debate quote it and dispute it. Tossing in the extra grenade at the end of the post to make digs at individuals isn't neccissary-(or allowed) and it also makes whatever good point you make weaker.

Everyone here is aware of a sign and trade- Peerless Price was 1 year ago. But it's not that simplistic. His first year salary can't go over whatever rookie cap the Texans were allotted for last year's draft.

Second- why should he get 1st round money anyway? If he went into this year's draft he probably would not be a 1st round pick. So paying him round 1 money is overpaying.

[Dozerdog]

Welcome to the board, cland!

[socalfan]

Originally posted by The Spaz
What is this the Texans 3rd year in existance they have a lot of holes to fill and of of the biggest is still the offensive line. The Texans drfated Carr as their first ever draft pick and concider him their franchise right now.

Well, I'm just saying if EB thinks Henson is better than a guy that got a team to the superbowl and Carr has the following numbers
GS comp/pct TD Int Rating
2002 16 52.5 9 15 62.8
2003 12 56.6 9 13 69.5

Why not trade Carr now and get that new guy with so much potential in there.

[Dozerdog]

One problem wih that is the money paid Carr-
They can't afford to eat all the bonus they gave him as a #1

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Blues-

Please try not to insult the individuals- If there is a point you want to debate quote it and dispute it. Tossing in the extra grenade at the end of the post to make digs at individuals isn't neccissary-(or allowed) and it also makes whatever good point you make weaker. Ok then, Carr was sacked 15 times last year. He may not last another onslaught like that. I guess that is better than "Next brainiac statement"


Originally posted by Dozerdog
Everyone here is aware of a sin and trade- Peerless Price was 1 year ago. But it's not that simplistic. His first year salary can't go over whatever rookie cap the Texans were allotted for last year's draft.
Casserly has a talk show here in Houston and claims he has it worked out. I guess we will just wait and see. I'm just telling you what I hear. We shall all see soon enough.


Originally posted by Dozerdog
Second- why should he get 1st round money anyway? If he went into this year's draft he probably would not be a 1st round pick. So paying him round 1 money is overpaying.
C-above comment. Same thing applies.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by socalfan


Well, I'm just saying if EB thinks Henson is better than a guy that got a team to the superbowl and Carr has the following numbers
GS comp/pct TD Int Rating
2002 16 52.5 9 15 62.8
2003 12 56.6 9 13 69.5

Why not trade Carr now and get that new guy with so much potential in there.
So would you be so kind to show me where I said this? Or are you just making this up?

I have never come here to tell anyone how good Henson is. I am not even sure I have seen him play. I really don't care where Henson ends up. I don't care how good Henson is. I just care about getting extra picks.

[socalfan]

Originally posted by The Spaz
What is this the Texans 3rd year in existance they have a lot of holes to fill and of of the biggest is still the offensive line. The Texans drfated Carr as their first ever draft pick and concider him their franchise right now.

That's true. But if you believe that Henson has the talent to get you to the superbowl...wouldn't you advocate for him as the QB for your team?

[socalfan]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
One problem wih that is the money paid Carr-
They can't afford to eat all the bonus they gave him as a #1

That is really only a short term problem in that Henson's salary will be very low and that would balance out to some degree the enormous bonus money that they would eat on trading Carr. Also, Carr having played more games is easier to evaluate for GMs. I would expect that after two seasons they would know the trade value.

[cland]

Thx for the welcome dozerdog, I see 'administrator' under your name so you must be the man to talk to about getting that #13 eh, my other recruit didn't work out so well ;)

You're right about the rookie allotment money, best estimates are that we've got ~$280k left. However, the CBA isn't exactly an airtight document. The general thought is that the contract will either be severely backloaded and laden with incentive clauses (can't be "likely to be achieved" as those count against the current cap) OR they'll sign a 1-year deal while really negotiating a much larger contract that can be signed in august (<- I read the august bit from a fairly credible source but I'm not 100% on it, I've heard others say it can't be redone for a year after signing.)

As I'm not a CBA expert my real indication that it won't be an issue, is that Henson's agent (Tom Condon) is reported to be satisfied with what Casserly has come up with. If the agent is happy they must've come up with something good.

Also, I know the rule about 'following the money' but in this case I don't think that it's Henson's #1 motivator. From interviews and comments I really believe this guy is looking for on-the-field success as opposed to a big payday. Hell the guy walked away from a guaranteed $12 million dollars cause he "missed being a quarterback."

[socalfan]

Originally posted by Expansion Blues
So would you be so kind to show me where I said this? Or are you just making this up?............



Originally posted by Expansion Blues
...... Casserly's Washington franchise took a former baseballer several years ago and won a Super Bowl. He claims Henson blows Jay Schroeder away in talent and I think I will "buy" that. ...............

Did you mean something different by saying "I will buy that"?

[socalfan]

Originally posted by cland
...... If the agent is happy they must've come up with something good.

Also, I know the rule about 'following the money' but in this case I don't think that it's Henson's #1 motivator. From interviews and comments I really believe this guy is looking for on-the-field success as opposed to a big payday. Hell the guy walked away from a guaranteed $12 million dollars cause he "missed being a quarterback."

Welcome to the board Cland. IMO even if the agent is okay with what the Texans came up with, the team trading for Henson will also need to sign on to it. I would think that a 1 year contract wouldn't be an option for the trading team, the risk is too high.

Also, I'm not sure Henson is coming back for the love of the game or just because he failed at baseball.

[cland]

Originally posted by socalfan


That's true. But if you believe that Henson has the talent to get you to the superbowl...wouldn't you advocate for him as the QB for your team?

socalfan, don't make me whip these stats out my back pocket.

It's way to early to grade carr one way or the other. Last season he missed parts of six games, and played the last few with a banged up shoulder; so he's pretty much a rookie and a half. He showed some nice improvement this year, and there's no doubt the guys got potential. Maybe 2-3 years from now we'll be griping about how we gave up henson to keep carr, but for now I'm pretty happy with carr's development and potential to be a great QB. At this point I'd hate to start over with a rookie when we've got a guy who still shows a good deal of promise.

[Expansion Blues]

Originally posted by socalfan




Did you mean something different by saying &quot;I will buy that&quot;? I'll buy the fact that Casserly is being honest when he says Jay Schroeder (who's talent is mediocre at best) was not as talented a prospect as Henson is.

[socalfan]

Originally posted by cland
socalfan, don't make me whip these stats out my back pocket.

It's way to early to grade carr one way or the other. Last season he missed parts of six games, and played the last few with a banged up shoulder; so he's pretty much a rookie and a half. He showed some nice improvement this year, and there's no doubt the guys got potential. Maybe 2-3 years from now we'll be griping about how we gave up henson to keep carr, but for now I'm pretty happy with carr's development and potential to be a great QB. At this point I'd hate to start over with a rookie when we've got a guy who still shows a good deal of promise.


Well, I agree with you.....if on the other hand I had made the claim that Henson was better than a guy that got a team to the superbowl....well, I'd have to think twice about keeping Carr.

And I still think, that Carr may not make it...due to injuries.

But this wasn't really a thread about Carr....so I'll leave off on the subject.

[cland]

socal, you're right on your point about if henson's team has to wait a year to resign it will be too dangerous--both for the team and henson. If it is august like I (think) I read then it seems that it could work.

[cland]

I wouldn't say carr is injury prone, heck the guy took 76 shots as a rookie without missing a play. Did you see the hit posey put on him? It would have put half the vet qbs out of the game for good (thx for that by the way--and with our own damn linebacker...that's just dirty ;p )

[socalfan]

That would give some assurance to the team that gets him, that they have some control over what he gets paid for the next three years. Because all a team would have to do in coming years is pay him as a resticted free agent.

If he does well, then he gets to negotiate something better after that time period.

[socalfan]

Originally posted by cland
I wouldn't say carr is injury prone, heck the guy took 76 shots as a rookie without missing a play. Did you see the hit posey put on him? It would have put half the vet qbs out of the game for good (thx for that by the way--and with our own damn linebacker...that's just dirty ;p )

I don't think he is injury prone...I just think he is getting killed; and that will impact his effectiveness. Is it the fault of the line? Is it his fault for holding on to the ball too long? I think the jury is still out on that.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by socalfan
Why sign him to back up Carr? Sign him to replace Carr.

replace Carr with a baseball player? :shakeno: That's even more ridiculous than replacing Drew with him. Carr is still improving, IMO.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Welcome cland, thank God, another poster who gets the entire picture.

[socalfan]

Originally posted by The_Philster
replace Carr with a baseball player? :shakeno: That's even more ridiculous than replacing Drew with him. Carr is still improving, IMO.


You need to read more of the thread to understand my point. I am not for replacing Carr with Henson. I'm asking a guy that thinks Henson is a QB that will get a team to the superbowl, why he wouldn't replace his QB with Henson, since I don't think Carr will get a team to a superbowl, much less survive the next 5 years in the league due to injuries.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by TheGhostofJimKelly
Welcome cland, thank God, another poster who gets the entire picture.

ghost, you said ANOTHER poster who gets the whole picture.. i have yet to see the first poster who does.. have you?

[socalfan]

Nice title Tatonka.

[Tatonka]

i am a closet henson fan... disregard everything i have said... ;)

i am like a gaybasher with homosexual tendencies.. lol

[The Spaz]

i am a closet henson fan... disregard everything i have said...

I knew it!:snicker:

[socalfan]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i am a closet henson fan... disregard everything i have said... ;)

i am like a gaybasher with homosexual tendencies.. lol

Wow! I didn't know this board could do that to a person. :D

[Tatonka]

freud says it was in me all the time... i just had to discover it.

[cordog]

Originally posted by Tatonka

i am like a gaybasher with homosexual tendencies.. lol

You want Kordell then huh?

[socalfan]

Well stay away from the twilight zone, I hear there are a lot of homophobics there.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by cordog
You want Kordell then huh?

well.. i would definately bash him. :D

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by socalfan
Well stay away from the twilight zone, I hear there are a lot of homophobics there.

my wife is one too. :D

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by socalfan
You need to read more of the thread to understand my point. I am not for replacing Carr with Henson. I'm asking a guy that thinks Henson is a QB that will get a team to the superbowl, why he wouldn't replace his QB with Henson, since I don't think Carr will get a team to a superbowl, much less survive the next 5 years in the league due to injuries.
Ok...gotcha :up: I'm used to seeing some pretty wild and crazy ideas...thought maybe you started developing them too. :D

[socalfan]

Originally posted by The_Philster
Ok...gotcha :up: I'm used to seeing some pretty wild and crazy ideas...thought maybe you started developing them too. :D

In my case you could attribute it to old age.