About the offensive line . . .

[EDS]

There is an article on ESPN (sorry I don't know how to post the link) about the Colts offensive line and the injuries it has sustained this year. As a result of the injuries, the Colts have been forced to play 3 different rookies at times, two of which are undrafted free agents. Despite the potential talent gap, the line has played very well, giving up only six sacks on the season and helping lead Edgerin James to be the second leading rusher in the NFL. Green Bay is another team that seams to do well with low draft picks and free agents.

This begs the question - what is the most successful attribute to good o-line play? Is it talent, coaching, a QB that consistently gets rid of the football, scheme, continuity?

I know the answer involves all of these aspects, but it makes me think that the solution to whatever offensive line woes the Bills have is not in signing big name or high priced free agent, but finding low cost coachable players that will fit in the scheme and benefit from working with the Bills staff. This has the added benefit of opening free agent dollars for other need areas.

The line is playing better of late so my thought is that the coaching and familiarity with the system are beginning to pay dividends and may not require the complete off-season overhaul I thought was needed a month ago. I think Williams, Villareal, Tucker and Price are definite keepers, Jennings will depend on price and Teague is not going anywhere so I can live with him.

Your thoughts?

[chernobylwraiths]

Easiest way to post a link is just to copyclip the whole address and paste it into here.

You can also hit the little button that looks like the earth with a paperclip and follow the instructions (first type a word or phrase enter and then copy in the address in the next window.

[chernobylwraiths]

I think it is a combination of good coaching and good talent evaluation. You need to get the right players first, then you need to have a good coach having them do the right thing. I think being smart or at least football smart has a lot to do with it.

[NJFINSFAN1]

I think it is a combination of good coaching and good talent evaluation. You need to get the right players first, then you need to have a good coach having them do the right thing. I think being smart or at least football smart has a lot to do with it.
well that leaves us out on all counts!!!http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/icons/icon7.gif

[chernobylwraiths]

well that leaves us out on all counts!!!http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/icons/icon7.gif

No offense, but I hope it stays that way.

[chernobylwraiths]

well that leaves us out on all counts!!!http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think you guys should give Gregg Williams another chance.

[NJFINSFAN1]

I think you guys should give Gregg Williams another chance.
I'm hoping we get Brad Childress, but with the wayne runs things it could be Ray Hanley!

[chernobylwraiths]

I'm hoping we get Brad Childress, but with the wayne runs things it could be Ray Hanley!

Not sure I want you guys to have a good coach, but if you could break up the lovefest in NE and take one of their top guys, that would be cool.

[NJFINSFAN1]

Not sure I want you guys to have a good coach, but if you could break up the lovefest in NE and take one of their top guys, that would be cool.
They kind of worry me! They are great together, but I'm not so sure how they would be apart!

[clumping platelets]

well that leaves us out on all counts!!!http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/icons/icon7.gif


:rofl:

[LABillsFan]

Teams like Indy and GB and yes the Pats have a system where the ball is thrown a lot quicker than other teams which sets up the running game and deep ball. Those short slants, quick throws down the line of scrimmage, screens net them 6-9 yards at a time, not to mention receivers that recognize blitzes and coverages just as good as their QB's do. They have also been playing in the same system for years, and while substitions are made on the line, the rest of the team knows what they are doing.

[RedEyE]

The Colts have an advantage to this situation.

Manning will smoke a blitzing defenses. He reads the defenses so well that if the play called in the huddle doesn't match up, he instantly audibles to expose the rush.

Therefore, most defenses don't bring a heavy blitzing scheme into games against the Colts. The Colts have so many offensive weapons that opposing defenses need the extra pursuers out of the box and covering downfield. Throw in a play action or two, and now you have a good running game to go with the passing game.

The defenses just use a basic scheme taking pressure off the Colts OL buying time for Manning and allowing a play to develop downfield.

Shows how a good QB contributes to his team.

[LABillsFan]

The Colts have an advantage to this situation.

Manning will smoke a blitzing defenses. He reads the defenses so well that if the play called in the huddle doesn't match up, he instantly audibles to expose the rush.

Therefore, most defenses don't bring a heavy blitzing scheme into games against the Colts. The Colts have so many offensive weapons that opposing defenses need the extra pursuers out of the box and covering downfield. Throw in a play action or two, and now you have a good running game to go with the passing game.

The defenses just use a basic scheme taking pressure off the Colts OL buying time for Manning and allowing a play to develop downfield.

Shows how a good QB contributes to his team.

And Favre, plain and simple is a mad man. Physically and emotionally tough who brings it every game even after all these years. Even if he throws int's you know he's going to redeem himself more times than not, Brady plays within his means and doesn't make mistakes all that often.

[TigerJ]

The Giants had a pretty good line most of the time that McNally was there, but the GM always assumed McNally could turn lead into gold and wouldn't even draft any halfway decent guys. When injuries hit his starters in his las year and he was literally coaching crap, the line play slipped badly. Buffalo by comparison has a much more talented line but has had crap coaching for so many years, it's taken McNally time to get them whipped into shape. They're doing pretty well now, but I still think the Bills should draft as if it is a weakness.

[LABillsFan]

The Giants had a pretty good line most of the time that McNally was there, but the GM always assumed McNally could turn lead into gold and wouldn't even draft any halfway decent guys. When injuries hit his starters in his las year and he was literally coaching crap, the line play slipped badly. Buffalo by comparison has a much more talented line but has had crap coaching for so many years, it's taken McNally time to get them whipped into shape. They're doing pretty well now, but I still think the Bills should draft as if it is a weakness.

That is one track record the Bills have that drives me insane. The FO looks at the surface and may think they don't need to insure stability at a postion and ignore it. But I will have to reserve judgement until the season is over. I don't expect them to run the table although Pitt is the only game that I see them out classed. It's so difficult to gauge them with DB back there yes they looked good the last 2 weeks but what is the gauge Seattle and St. Louis or Baltimore and NE?

[Tatonka]

The Giants had a pretty good line most of the time that McNally was there, but the GM always assumed McNally could turn lead into gold and wouldn't even draft any halfway decent guys. When injuries hit his starters in his las year and he was literally coaching crap, the line play slipped badly. Buffalo by comparison has a much more talented line but has had crap coaching for so many years, it's taken McNally time to get them whipped into shape. They're doing pretty well now, but I still think the Bills should draft as if it is a weakness.

great post. i agree.

[finsrclowns]

Teams like Indy and GB and yes the Pats have a system where the ball is thrown a lot quicker than other teams which sets up the running game and deep ball. Those short slants, quick throws down the line of scrimmage, screens net them 6-9 yards at a time, not to mention receivers that recognize blitzes and coverages just as good as their QB's do. They have also been playing in the same system for years, and while substitions are made on the line, the rest of the team knows what they are doing.

No they don't. The Packers, Indy and NE throw more balls deep than any teams I can think of other than the Rams, certainly far more than Buffalo. Those groups are simply superior at run and pass blocking. The only time we ever throw deep, which is only a few times a game, we do so with max protection. None of those three teams you mentioned has to do that. How many times have you watched those three teams play? I have the dish and I've watched them all a lot. It's absolutely no coincidence that the teams with the best lines have the best offenses, with all respect to three great QB's on those teams. Coaching is huge on the OL but put Mike Pucillo on any of those other teams and he'd still suck.
If you watched the 2nd NE game on TV they had a stop watch going and Brady was throwing the ball consistently after 3.9 seconds. Bledsoe only had one throw for the game that he held the ball that long- the max protect deep ball that was picked by Wilson. An extra second to throw is an eternity in football and can make the difference between good and bad QB performance. As our OL has improved, it's still no better than mediocre, Bledsoe has done better. The question is- will the OL continue to get better or will it level off? We still don't match up well with the better defensive teams with our OL either for running or passing as the 2nd NE game showed.

[LABillsFan]

No they don't. The Packers, Indy and NE throw more balls deep than any teams I can think of other than the Rams, certainly far more than Buffalo. Those groups are simply superior at run and pass blocking. The only time we ever throw deep, which is only a few times a game, we do so with max protection. None of those three teams you mentioned has to do that. How many times have you watched those three teams play? I have the dish and I've watched them all a lot. It's absolutely no coincidence that the teams with the best lines have the best offenses, with all respect to three great QB's on those teams. Coaching is huge on the OL but put Mike Pucillo on any of those other teams and he'd still suck.
If you watched the 2nd NE game on TV they had a stop watch going and Brady was throwing the ball consistently after 3.9 seconds. Bledsoe only had one throw for the game that he held the ball that long- the max protect deep ball that was picked by Wilson. An extra second to throw is an eternity in football and can make the difference between good and bad QB performance. As our OL has improved, it's still no better than mediocre, Bledsoe has done better. The question is- will the OL continue to get better or will it level off? We still don't match up well with the better defensive teams with our OL either for running or passing as the 2nd NE game showed.

Yes they do. That short drop and release is their bread and butter. I'm not saying they don't have good lines I'm saying they play the system very well but that comes with time. As far as 3.9 sec. goes that's because if you blitz him he will burn you just like Manning and Favre and if your secondary isn't up to par the long ball is icing on the cake.

[finsrclowns]

Yes they do. That short drop and release is their bread and butter. I'm not saying they don't have good lines I'm saying they play the system very well but that comes with time. As far as 3.9 sec. goes that's because if you blitz him he will burn you just like Manning and Favre and if your secondary isn't up to par the long ball is icing on the cake.

NE used to throw a ton of short dink and dunk stuff because they had a weak running game. Now they use Dillon for that. When they throw it's mostly to the WR's now and their YPC is up 20% from last year. Indy leads the league in YPC. And anyone that thinks Favre's bread and butter is three step drops and short passes doesn't watch Green Bay play.

[Mahdi]

Theres no question that our o-line has improved since week 1. As far as giving Drew time and not allowing sacks they've done a great job as of late. However I still think that the run blocking is an issue. Willis is not getting the holes other RB's are getting. We definitely need to do some upgrading, IF they dont improve in that department aswell.

[LABillsFan]

YPC as in total yards. What's the yards gained after catch? Favre throws significantly more to short routes as he does to long ones. Anyone thinks other wise has only seen last weeks Monday night game.

[finsrclowns]

YPC as in total yards. What's the yards gained after catch? Favre throws significantly more to short routes as he does to long ones. Anyone thinks other wise has only seen last weeks Monday night game.

Every QB throws more short than long but Favre throws more deep and intermediate balls every week of every season for the past decade than anyone I can think of and I've watched him play dozens of times. Manning is NOT a three step drop passer, never has been, and Brady only is occassionally now.

[LABillsFan]

Every QB throws more short than long but Favre throws more deep and intermediate balls every week of every season for the past decade than anyone I can think of and I've watched him play dozens of times. Manning is NOT a three step drop passer, never has been, and Brady only is occassionally now.

Really,

Seems to me when he has 110 passes 1- 10 yards, 108 passes 10-20, 87 passes 20-30 and 50 passes 30-40 and 20 pass 40+.

As far as Manning 110, 110, 96, 32, 4 in the same yardage situation.

This would suggest differently. But then again I don't have the dish.

[The_Philster]

Here's the link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1935291) :;

[TigerJ]

I think when a line is pretty well established and the players know each other, it does become easier to plug in another player when necessary. The established guys know their jobs so well that they are able to let the newcomer know what's expected of him on each play. When nobody's sure what they're doing, and a starter goes down, the remaining starters just don't know how to help the plug in because they're still unsure of their own roles. I think a plug-in learns much more quickly with an established line, all of which means its a whole lot easier to maintain a good line than start from scratch to build one.

[finsrclowns]

Really,

Seems to me when he has 110 passes 1- 10 yards, 108 passes 10-20, 87 passes 20-30 and 50 passes 30-40 and 20 pass 40+.

As far as Manning 110, 110, 96, 32, 4 in the same yardage situation.

This would suggest differently. But then again I don't have the dish.

I appreciate you bringing up the stats, although you've quoted yards instead of attempts in your figures above, which doesn't tell you much. In any case, facts are always nice. I don't have the time to compare the Colts, GB, and the Pats with the whole league, but here's a comparison with the Bills.

*(% of total attempts)
Green Bay
passes 10 yards or less 29%
passes over 10 yards 71%

Indy
passes 10 yards or less 32%
passes over 10 yards 68%

NE
passes 10 yards or less 34%
passes over 10 yards 66%

Buffalo
passes 10 yards or less 78%
passes over 10 yards 22%

Kind of interesting huh? The Buffalo offense is much, much more geared to quick release throws (3 seconds or less, under 10 yards) except for the occassional shot down field with max protection, because our line can't pass block consistently for 4 seconds, at least not against better competition. Actually in the first three games we tried to throw more intermediate routes and we were on pace to set the all time sacks allowed record, which was when we settled on our present approach. Bill Bellichick commented on it after the second game with us essentially saying they didn't bother blitzing much because we generally throw so quickly that our line doesn't need to pass protect, so instead they focused on jumping the short routes and doubling the deep ball.

By the way the dish is great, you ought to consider it. :peace:

[LABillsFan]

I appreciate you bringing up the stats, although you've quoted yards instead of attempts in your figures above, which doesn't tell you much. In any case, facts are always nice. I don't have the time to compare the Colts, GB, and the Pats with the whole league, but here's a comparison with the Bills.

*(% of total attempts)
Green Bay
passes 10 yards or less 29%
passes over 10 yards 71%

Indy
passes 10 yards or less 32%
passes over 10 yards 68%

NE
passes 10 yards or less 34%
passes over 10 yards 66%

Buffalo
passes 10 yards or less 78%
passes over 10 yards 22%

Kind of interesting huh? The Buffalo offense is much, much more geared to quick release throws (3 seconds or less, under 10 yards) except for the occassional shot down field with max protection, because our line can't pass block consistently for 4 seconds, at least not against better competition. Actually in the first three games we tried to throw more intermediate routes and we were on pace to set the all time sacks allowed record, which was when we settled on our present approach. Bill Bellichick commented on it after the second game with us essentially saying they didn't bother blitzing much because we generally throw so quickly that our line doesn't need to pass protect, so instead they focused on jumping the short routes and doubling the deep ball.

By the way the dish is great, you ought to consider it. :peace:

No it's passing attempts for sure :peace:

[finsrclowns]

No it's passing attempts for sure :peace:

:question:

[Tatonka]

good debate going on here.. and no flaming.. nice.