CBS Sportsline

[The_Philster]

Inside slant
Coach Mike Mularkey has scheduled a team-high of four night practices for training camp, a decision that's filled with so many positives it's hard to believe NFL teams don't practice every day under the lights in the summertime. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/8597735





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Notes, quotes
"J.P. needs to make friends with those five starting linemen as soon as he can. On the field he has to let his blockers know where he'll be. I played with two different types of quarterbacks. With Jim Kelly, you knew where he would be because he couldn't move around that much. With Doug Flutie, you never knew where he was going to be." - Bills Wall of Fame center Kent Hull, talking about what new QB J.P. Losman (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493000) needs to do to be successful. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/8597736

[feelthepain]

Inside slant
Coach Mike Mularkey has scheduled a team-high of four night practices for training camp, a decision that's filled with so many positives it's hard to believe NFL teams don't practice every day under the lights in the summertime. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/8597735







<HR>



Notes, quotes
"J.P. needs to make friends with those five starting linemen as soon as he can. On the field he has to let his blockers know where he'll be. I played with two different types of quarterbacks. With Jim Kelly, you knew where he would be because he couldn't move around that much. With Doug Flutie, you never knew where he was going to be." - Bills Wall of Fame center Kent Hull, talking about what new QB J.P. Losman (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493000) needs to do to be successful. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/8597736


I think for a seasond Oline it would be tough to protect a running QB but for a line that's not a strength, for your team could spell problems. I think it would be in JP's best interest to avoid running and stay in the pocket. This could add to the growing pains of JP. He has a strong arm that should be a plus to teach him to be a pocket passer. I don't think there were many scrambling or running QB's to reach the SB. I think Steve Young is one of the few to do it. I also think Sam Wyche will try to convince JP not to panic and to be patient.
If used correctly JP's runnig could devolp into a weapon, but not if it's his first thought.

[The_Philster]

A big part of it is usually in the growth of the QB..knowing when and when not to run...usually a running QB will learn that over time. Vick is still learning...Flutie never really did

[feelthepain]

A big part of it is usually in the growth of the QB..knowing when and when not to run...usually a running QB will learn that over time. Vick is still learning...Flutie never really did
And to think all the hype that went into Vicks future, he's a glorified RB. He has an arm thats second to none, but what good is it if you can't connect on a wide open WR streaking across the middle??? D.McNabb came into the league as a running QB but has evolved into a pocket QB, and the same could be said for D.Culpepper. I think a running QB is just too inconsistent to play at the pro level. Teams are bigger faster and smarter at the pro level and seeing how important the QB is in the pros his health is key aswell and if you run, you take much more of a pounding.
Also the best QB's in the game today and in the past have be pocket passers there is a reason for that.

[The_Philster]

Favre's a runner but I'd rank him as one of the best to play over the last 10 years...big part of it is coaching..they can be taught how to know when and when not to run. But the ones that don't learn are quite often the result of coaches not realizing how to utilize them best

[ublinkwescore]

You think Sam Wyche could take Vick to a whole new level?

[Italian Stallion]

You think Sam Wyche could take Vick to a whole new level?

I was just gonna post that, I think so....Vick has no coaching, never did since he came into the league

[ShadowHawk7]

- "The Bills will save $2 million against this year's salary cap sometime in July by spreading out $3 million in roster bonuses Mike Williams is scheduled to get this summer. That will put his cap figure at $7.46 million and provide a cap cushion. It doesn't look like a more extensive reworking of his contract will happen this year."

Another 2 mill.. for what I wonder..

[Tatonka]

vick has accuracy problems.. he always has.. even from back when i went to vtech with him.. it is correct that he has the strongest arm that i have ever seen.. a pure specemin, but what good is it, like FTP said.. he cant hit open receivers..

vick is fun to watch and i root for him, but i dont ever think he will be great.

[ublinkwescore]

VERBA!!!

[John Doe]

I don't think there were many scrambling or running QB's to reach the SB.

Sure, there will be times when Losman will have the occasional designed roll out or run, but I doubt that there is a plan to have Losman run the ball all the time.

It helps to have a QB that can make plays with his feet when the opportunity presents itself. Remember superbowl XIX?

[Bill Brasky]

I think it would be in JP's best interest to avoid running and stay in the pocket. This could add to the growing pains of JP. He has a strong arm that should be a plus to teach him to be a pocket passer. I don't think there were many scrambling or running QB's to reach the SB.

If used correctly JP's runnig could devolp into a weapon, but not if it's his first thought.

That's what has been done w/ McNabb and now he's one of the best QB's in the league. I hope Wyche and MM do the same w/ JP.

If people were smart enough to work w/ Vick and teach him to pass first, run second, he could be one of the best QB's ever... until that happens, I consider him one of the most overrated QB's of all time. His accuracy could be improved if somebody worked with him, but everyone is too enamoured w/ his "running" ability.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

I think for a seasond Oline it would be tough to protect a running QB but for a line that's not a strength, for your team could spell problems. I think it would be in JP's best interest to avoid running and stay in the pocket. This could add to the growing pains of JP. He has a strong arm that should be a plus to teach him to be a pocket passer. I don't think there were many scrambling or running QB's to reach the SB. I think Steve Young is one of the few to do it. I also think Sam Wyche will try to convince JP not to panic and to be patient.
If used correctly JP's runnig could devolp into a weapon, but not if it's his first thought.
Thanks for the very intelligent insight. You should call Mularkey himself and let him know your thoughts. BTW, I think Elway, Favre, and Gannon are/were considered effective scramblers. Then again, that's only what? 8 SuperBowls?

[feelthepain]

Thanks for the very intelligent insight. You should call Mularkey himself and let him know your thoughts. BTW, I think Elway, Favre, and Gannon are/were considered effective scramblers. Then again, that's only what? 8 SuperBowls?

There is a difference between what JP does and what Favre, Elway and Gannon did/do. They all threw first and would run last JP will think run first before he thinks pass...see the difference here??? Just because those QB's would run occasionally doesn't qualify them as scrambling QB's it simply means they weren't permanent fixtures in the backfield. Would you put those QB's in the same categorey as Vick?.... No!.... Why??? Because Vick will have nearly as many yrds rushing as his RB every year when did Elway, Favre, or Gannon ever do that?? Thas the difference between a scrambling QB and running QB!!!

[mysticsoto]

There is a difference between what JP does and what Favre, Elway and Gannon did/do. They all threw first and would run last JP will think run first before he thinks pass...see the difference here??? Just because those QB's would run occasionally doesn't qualify them as scrambling QB's it simply means they weren't permanent fixtures in the backfield. Would you put those QB's in the same categorey as Vick?.... No!.... Why??? Because Vick will have nearly as many yrds rushing as his RB every year when did Elway, Favre, or Gannon ever do that?? Thas the difference between a scrambling QB and running QB!!!
You are talking in future tense? What JP "will" do??? You have no idea what JP will do nor what effect Wyche's coaching will have on him. As much as you like to say that Bills fans jump the gun with optimism from an "unproven" QB - you jump the gun with negativity, pessimism and hope what of what JP will do.

If you need to worry about anyone, it should be Feeley who doesn't move much and still has a crappy line around him!

[HHURRICANE]

JP is not Mike "Mexico" Vick. I live in Atlanta and they will never win a SB with Mike Vick. He is very exciting and sells tickets but he is not that good a passer. I think JP is going to be alot more like Favre. You are 3rd and 3 and he can get you the first down running or passing. He's also alot more accurate than Vick.

[feelthepain]

As much as you like to say that Bills fans jump the gun with optimism from an "unproven" QB - you jump the gun with negativity, pessimism and hope what of what JP will do.And you do the same with Feeley...once again, take your own advice!!




If you need to worry about anyone, it should be Feeley who doesn't move much and still has a crappy line around him!
And your line is what??? Your coach and GM did nothing to help your pathetic line. You have some nerve calling out anyone elses line.

[justasportsfan]

And your line is what??? Your coach and GM did nothing to help your pathetic line. You have some nerve calling out anyone elses line.Our Ol wasn't as bad as yours. Our Ol went from dead last to middle of the pack in Mcnally's first year. They are now on their 2nd year while yours are playing a new system w/ a new HC ,OC and OL coach.

[mysticsoto]

And you do the same with Feeley...once again, take your own advice!!
Yes, but I've seen Feeley play for a number of years now and he hasn't impressed. He was a 3rd stringer for a reason and would probably make a good backup to someone...You haven't seen what JP has to offer yet. He is an unknown to you...and all you can do is show your hate and hope he does terrible. No doubt if he has a good or even decent season, you will say he was just lucky and that he won't repeat it...and each year you will have a new excuse???

And if the fins have a losing season again??? What will be your excuse? That you are in rebuilding mode???


And your line is what??? Your coach and GM did nothing to help your pathetic line. You have some nerve calling out anyone elses line.
Our line isn't great, but isn't as bad as you make it sound either. Remember those 6 games we won in a row during the mid-last season? Do you also remember the number of sacks dropping dramatically from the year before? And how about the fact that we now have a statue-less QB? Or that Mike Williams is back in shape and we now have a road grater for LG??? Everybody is down on Gandy, but this helps to show our current status:

With two new starters and the presence of an untested starting quarterback, offensive line coach Jim McNally will be challenged to mold the front five into a cohesive and consistent unit that can protect the passer and blast open holes for the running backs. McNally is working with a new left side as Mike Gandy takes over at tackle and Ravens free agent Bennie Anderson steps in at guard. While Anderson is an established pro, Gandy is a question mark. He was cut by the Bears and has much to prove. McNally, who excels at teaching techniques and fundamentals, believes Gandy has the skills to succeed. It will be up McNally to bring it out of him.

If McNally things Gandy has the skills that are needed, I'm willing to take his word more than yours or anyone elses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I call out your line b'cse you make it seem like they will be a brick wall this year all of a sudden - just b'cse you have a new O-line coach. The best you can hope for is that they will be slightly improved - which isn't hard compared to what they were last year.

[Bulldog]

And your line is what??? Your coach and GM did nothing to help your pathetic line. You have some nerve calling out anyone elses line.

Miami had one of the worst, if not the worst, o-lines in the NFL last year. What have they done to address that situation? My only real concern with Buffalo's line is the LT position. If Gandy can't hold his own, I think Buffalo's in trouble.

[ryven]

And you do the same with Feeley...once again, take your own advice!!



Again what we say about feeley is proven fact do to his game play. What you say about JP is speculation.

[feelthepain]

Yes, but I've seen Feeley play for a number of years now and he hasn't impressed. He was a 3rd stringer for a reason and would probably make a good backup to someone...You haven't seen what JP has to offer yet. He is an unknown to you...and all you can do is show your hate and hope he does terrible. No doubt if he has a good or even decent season, you will say he was just lucky and that he won't repeat it...and each year you will have a new excuse???

And if the fins have a losing season again??? What will be your excuse? That you are in rebuilding mode???


Our line isn't great, but isn't as bad as you make it sound either. Remember those 6 games we won in a row during the mid-last season? Do you also remember the number of sacks dropping dramatically from the year before? And how about the fact that we now have a statue-less QB? Or that Mike Williams is back in shape and we now have a road grater for LG??? Everybody is down on Gandy, but this helps to show our current status:

With two new starters and the presence of an untested starting quarterback, offensive line coach Jim McNally will be challenged to mold the front five into a cohesive and consistent unit that can protect the passer and blast open holes for the running backs. McNally is working with a new left side as Mike Gandy takes over at tackle and Ravens free agent Bennie Anderson steps in at guard. While Anderson is an established pro, Gandy is a question mark. He was cut by the Bears and has much to prove. McNally, who excels at teaching techniques and fundamentals, believes Gandy has the skills to succeed. It will be up McNally to bring it out of him.

If McNally things Gandy has the skills that are needed, I'm willing to take his word more than yours or anyone elses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I call out your line b'cse you make it seem like they will be a brick wall this year all of a sudden - just b'cse you have a new O-line coach. The best you can hope for is that they will be slightly improved - which isn't hard compared to what they were last year.


Yes, but I've seen Feeley play for a number of years now and he hasn't impressed. He was a 3rd stringer for a reason and would probably make a good backup to someone...You haven't seen what JP has to offer yet. He is an unknown to you...and all you can do is show your hate and hope he does terrible. No doubt if he has a good or even decent season, you will say he was just lucky and that he won't repeat it...and each year you will have a new excuse???
And if the fins have a losing season again??? What will be your excuse? That you are in rebuilding mode???Sure looks like a whole lot of if's ands, and buts on your part to me, You can talk trash because PJ is a rookie and unproven, but I can't because we now have Saban, Linehan and Houck to help this team and players to the next level?? Let me ask you a question, do you see any difference in the coaches we have now,opposed to the last five?? And where is it written a team can not have a great season under a first year coach?? We...as I've said before were not a 4-12 team for five years, just one the talent is in Miami they just needed coaching. And now they have that.




Our line isn't great, but isn't as bad as you make it sound either. Remember those 6 games we won in a row during the mid-last season? Do you also remember the number of sacks dropping dramatically from the year before? And how about the fact that we now have a statue-less QB? Or that Mike Williams is back in shape and we now have a road grater for LG??? Everybody is down on Gandy, but this helps to show our current status:

With two new starters and the presence of an untested starting quarterback, offensive line coach Jim McNally will be challenged to mold the front five into a cohesive and consistent unit that can protect the passer and blast open holes for the running backs. McNally is working with a new left side as Mike Gandy takes over at tackle and Ravens free agent Bennie Anderson steps in at guard. While Anderson is an established pro, Gandy is a question mark. He was cut by the Bears and has much to prove. McNally, who excels at teaching techniques and fundamentals, believes Gandy has the skills to succeed. It will be up McNally to bring it out of him.
Your team was 9-7 without any significant player lost to injury, and Miami going 4-12 sure helped that cause. We lost four key starters, started a whole new Oline and had a rookie O coordinator none of those things happend to your team and you only won five more games and missed the playoffs. I don't care how great you want to think your line is the two addition don't add up to squat. One was released and the other is avg. at best. You will start a rookie QB and have no anchor at LT.

You cut and paste a paragraph that proves nothing judt ONE persons opinion!!! Just stop, your linr will be a weakness this year and PJ will be the one to feel the effect the most.


If McNally things Gandy has the skills that are needed, I'm willing to take his word more than yours or anyone elses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So because McNally says something you want to hear you take his word more then anyone elses?? Wow, theres a surprise!!! I guess if he said every linemen would be a pobowler you'd be dumb enough to swallow that too right?? Honestly whats he gonna say Gandy is avg. and should be a backup and not a starter??? I don't think so, you are setting yourself up for some major disappointment.



I call out your line b'cse you make it seem like they will be a brick wall this year all of a sudden - just b'cse you have a new O-line coach. The best you can hope for is that they will be slightly improved - which isn't hard compared to what they were last year.
I guess you think SD's line was crap last year?? The year before the team was 4-12, Houck had that line playing lights out!! We have S.Linehan who loves to stretch the field...whens the last time Miami did that?? Linehan is reguarded as one of the top OC in the game. We will not be the same vanilla O you've seen the last five years. Our Oline has some very solid guys that were terrible due to coaching schemes not talent, why?? Because Wanny tried to run the same O as if RW was still in the backfield. Run, Run,Run was Wanny's philosophy...gues what Wannys gone. Don't ya just hate it?? Saban is a no non-sense type of coach that has an incredible eye for talent and the ability to coach...something Wanny never had. He's is also exremely smart, he understands matchups and how to get the advantage on his opponent. He has NFL coaching experience and even had the #1 ranked D in the league while with the Browns as their D coordinator. You and your buddies are the only one I've seen who seem to think Saban isn't the real deal.

[ublinkwescore]

the Talent is in Miami?

Where other then a speck here and there on D.

McMichael, Boston, and Chambers all blow - overrated underachievers.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

I think for a seasond Oline it would be tough to protect a running QB but for a line that's not a strength, for your team could spell problems. I think it would be in JP's best interest to avoid running and stay in the pocket. This could add to the growing pains of JP. He has a strong arm that should be a plus to teach him to be a pocket passer. I don't think there were many scrambling or running QB's to reach the SB. I think Steve Young is one of the few to do it. I also think Sam Wyche will try to convince JP not to panic and to be patient.
If used correctly JP's runnig could devolp into a weapon, but not if it's his first thought.

Good post, but I am not optimistic that JP will be able to control his instinct to tuck and run when the pocket breaks down (which we know it will....all too often). I just haven't seen anything from me that suggests he is up to NFL speed, and I think he will try to compensate for that with his legs.
It may work up to a point, but we won't get into the playoffs with him running wild.

[Bulldog]

Your team was 9-7 without any significant player lost to injury, and Miami going 4-12 sure helped that cause. We lost four key starters, started a whole new Oline and had a rookie O coordinator none of those things happend to your team and you only won five more games and missed the playoffs. I don't care how great you want to think your line is the two addition don't add up to squat. One was released and the other is avg. at best. You will start a rookie QB and have no anchor at LT.

Again, get your facts straight. Both Milloy and Vincent missed significant time due to injuries. Two pretty big parts of Buffalo's secondary, right? I don't hear Bills fans crying that we missed the playoffs because of the injuries to those two. Injuries are part of the game, get over it already.


So because McNally says something you want to hear you take his word more then anyone elses?? Wow, theres a surprise!!! I guess if he said every linemen would be a pobowler you'd be dumb enough to swallow that too right?? Honestly whats he gonna say Gandy is avg. and should be a backup and not a starter??? I don't think so, you are setting yourself up for some major disappointment.

You're right, we should value your opinion more than that of McNally's. I mean he's only one of the most respected o-line coaches in NFL. Do you realize how stupid that makes you sound?


I guess you think SD's line was crap last year?? The year before the team was 4-12, Houck had that line playing lights out!! We have S.Linehan who loves to stretch the field...whens the last time Miami did that?? Linehan is reguarded as one of the top OC in the game. We will not be the same vanilla O you've seen the last five years. Our Oline has some very solid guys that were terrible due to coaching schemes not talent, why?? Because Wanny tried to run the same O as if RW was still in the backfield. Run, Run,Run was Wanny's philosophy...gues what Wannys gone. Don't ya just hate it?? Saban is a no non-sense type of coach that has an incredible eye for talent and the ability to coach...something Wanny never had. He's is also exremely smart, he understands matchups and how to get the advantage on his opponent. He has NFL coaching experience and even had the #1 ranked D in the league while with the Browns as their D coordinator. You and your buddies are the only one I've seen who seem to think Saban isn't the real deal.

Besides bringing in a new o-line coach, what else has Miami done to improve the unit as a whole? Sure, Miami's o-line will improve as a result of better coaching, but I don't think the improvement is going to be as dramatic as you seem to think.

[TedMock]

What I'd like to know, is how some (not all) of these Miami fans can call our weakness, etc. Yet, they use the same exact reasoning and excuses to call out their team strengths. They say our line will suck yet their line will get better because of Houck. Guess what? Jim McNally has also been argued to be the best o-line coach in football. Why can't our line improve under one of the best position coaches and Miami's can? Miami certainly isn't loaded up with anymore talent than Buffalo. Miami had a new OC, that's why they struggled. We had a rookie OC last season and improved. Miami will come together because Linehan is one of the best OC's in football. Wasn't Mularky also one of the best OC's in football? With another season together, and a QB that will allow for more diverse play calling, why can't Buffalo's team get better? Saban is a proven defensive coach, and he had the best defense in the NFL in 1994, so he'll definitely succeed. Gregg Williams had the number one rated defense in Tennessee before coming to Buffalo. He also had a top 5 defense while in Buffalo, and has a top 5 defense in Washington. That didn't help him all that much. I actually do like Saban, but I can't predice if he'll succeed either way. I need to actually watch him perform head coaching duties first. I felt the same way about Mularky last year, and I think he did a very good job.

[EDS]

There is a difference between what JP does and what Favre, Elway and Gannon did/do. They all threw first and would run last JP will think run first before he thinks pass...see the difference here??? Just because those QB's would run occasionally doesn't qualify them as scrambling QB's it simply means they weren't permanent fixtures in the backfield. Would you put those QB's in the same categorey as Vick?.... No!.... Why??? Because Vick will have nearly as many yrds rushing as his RB every year when did Elway, Favre, or Gannon ever do that?? Thas the difference between a scrambling QB and running QB!!!

I think Elway started off running more then he should have, but he definitely was a scrambling QB. The most obvious example of a highly effective mobile QB is Steve Young. Brilliant runner who learned when to throw and when to run. He is obviously the proverbial "best case scenario" for Losman.

Other mobile QB's who have had success include Randal Cunningham (I don't think JP is that athletic), Warren Moon, Steve McNair (a few yers ago), a young Troy Aikman, etc.

None of those guys with the possible exceptions of Young and Cunningham are remotely close to Vick in terms of running ability, but they all picked up yardage with their legs when needed - especially early in their careers.

[mysticsoto]

Sure looks like a whole lot of if's ands, and buts on your part to me, You can talk trash because PJ is a rookie and unproven, but I can't because we now have Saban, Linehan and Houck to help this team and players to the next level?? Let me ask you a question, do you see any difference in the coaches we have now,opposed to the last five?? And where is it written a team can not have a great season under a first year coach?? We...as I've said before were not a 4-12 team for five years, just one the talent is in Miami they just needed coaching. And now they have that. I've already said that I think your team will be better off with the new coaches. But better off doesn't mean playoff bound. In truth, I could see you guys going around 500. Maybe even 9-7 if you are lucky. In your 1st year with new coaches and new players, I don't see you going that much higher than that. Is it possible, sure...but unlikely.



Your team was 9-7 without any significant player lost to injury, and Miami going 4-12 sure helped that cause. We lost four key starters, started a whole new Oline and had a rookie O coordinator none of those things happend to your team and you only won five more games and missed the playoffs. I don't care how great you want to think your line is the two addition don't add up to squat. One was released and the other is avg. at best. You will start a rookie QB and have no anchor at LT. Well, from my point of view...we went 9-7 last year and haven't had many significant losses within the team except for PW and JJ. I think Ron Edwards will do well as PW's replacement, and he has experience (not a rookie). JJ might be harder to replace, but I do give McNally credit as being a great teacher and if he thinks Gandy has what it takes, then so be it. Who knows better than he? None of us, that's for sure!


You cut and paste a paragraph that proves nothing judt ONE persons opinion!!! Just stop, your linr will be a weakness this year and PJ will be the one to feel the effect the most.

So because McNally says something you want to hear you take his word more then anyone elses?? Wow, theres a surprise!!! I guess if he said every linemen would be a pobowler you'd be dumb enough to swallow that too right?? Honestly whats he gonna say Gandy is avg. and should be a backup and not a starter??? I don't think so, you are setting yourself up for some major disappointment. Maybe I will be majorly disappointed this year. Maybe you will. But I will take the word of a professional coach who gets to see and work with these players up front than the word of a avg joe poster who is the fan of the rival team - makes sense, doesn't it?



I guess you think SD's line was crap last year?? The year before the team was 4-12, Houck had that line playing lights out!! We have S.Linehan who loves to stretch the field...whens the last time Miami did that?? Linehan is reguarded as one of the top OC in the game. We will not be the same vanilla O you've seen the last five years. Our Oline has some very solid guys that were terrible due to coaching schemes not talent, why?? Because Wanny tried to run the same O as if RW was still in the backfield. Run, Run,Run was Wanny's philosophy...gues what Wannys gone. Don't ya just hate it?? Saban is a no non-sense type of coach that has an incredible eye for talent and the ability to coach...something Wanny never had. He's is also exremely smart, he understands matchups and how to get the advantage on his opponent. He has NFL coaching experience and even had the #1 ranked D in the league while with the Browns as their D coordinator. You and your buddies are the only one I've seen who seem to think Saban isn't the real deal. No I don't think SD's line was crap a year ago. But Miami doesn't have that line!!! Offenses take time to implement something new. Sometimes the players adapt to it well, and sometimes they don't. Gilbride was highly regarded when he came to Buffalo. But his style did not fit the personnel well and the rest is history. I have never said anything bad about Saban, and I haven't seen many people around here do so either. What we might say is that he is just starting to implement his system and that these things usually take time until the players adapt to what the coach wants.

Personally, I'm interested in how Saban handles any dissension in the locker room toward RW from the other players...that could amount to a distraction.

[ryven]

I've already said that I think your team will be better off with the new coaches. But better off doesn't mean playoff bound. In truth, I could see you guys going around 500. Maybe even 9-7 if you are lucky. In your 1st year with new coaches and new players, I don't see you going that much higher than that. Is it possible, sure...but unlikely.


Well, from my point of view...we went 9-7 last year and haven't had many significant losses within the team except for PW and JJ. I think Ron Edwards will do well as PW's replacement, and he has experience (not a rookie). JJ might be harder to replace, but I do give McNally credit as being a great teacher and if he thinks Gandy has what it takes, then so be it. Who knows better than he? None of us, that's for sure!

Maybe I will be majorly disappointed this year. Maybe you will. But I will take the word of a professional coach who gets to see and work with these players up front than the word of a avg joe poster who is the fan of the rival team - makes sense, doesn't it?


No I don't think SD's line was crap a year ago. But Miami doesn't have that line!!! Offenses take time to implement something new. Sometimes the players adapt to it well, and sometimes they don't. Gilbride was highly regarded when he came to Buffalo. But his style did not fit the personnel well and the rest is history. I have never said anything bad about Saban, and I haven't seen many people around here do so either. What we might say is that he is just starting to implement his system and that these things usually take time until the players adapt to what the coach wants.

Personally, I'm interested in how Saban handles any dissension in the locker room toward RW from the other players...that could amount to a distraction.




:bf1: :goodpost: :posrep:

[feelthepain]

I've already said that I think your team will be better off with the new coaches. But better off doesn't mean playoff bound. In truth, I could see you guys going around 500. Maybe even 9-7 if you are lucky. In your 1st year with new coaches and new players, I don't see you going that much higher than that. Is it possible, sure...but unlikely.


Well, from my point of view...we went 9-7 last year and haven't had many significant losses within the team except for PW and JJ. I think Ron Edwards will do well as PW's replacement, and he has experience (not a rookie). JJ might be harder to replace, but I do give McNally credit as being a great teacher and if he thinks Gandy has what it takes, then so be it. Who knows better than he? None of us, that's for sure!

Maybe I will be majorly disappointed this year. Maybe you will. But I will take the word of a professional coach who gets to see and work with these players up front than the word of a avg joe poster who is the fan of the rival team - makes sense, doesn't it?


No I don't think SD's line was crap a year ago. But Miami doesn't have that line!!! Offenses take time to implement something new. Sometimes the players adapt to it well, and sometimes they don't. Gilbride was highly regarded when he came to Buffalo. But his style did not fit the personnel well and the rest is history. I have never said anything bad about Saban, and I haven't seen many people around here do so either. What we might say is that he is just starting to implement his system and that these things usually take time until the players adapt to what the coach wants.

Personally, I'm interested in how Saban handles any dissension in the locker room toward RW from the other players...that could amount to a distraction.

I've already said that I think your team will be better off with the new coaches. But better off doesn't mean playoff bound. In truth, I could see you guys going around 500. Maybe even 9-7 if you are lucky. In your 1st year with new coaches and new players, I don't see you going that much higher than that. Is it possible, sure...but unlikely.

Why?? All but one of the new coaches are consider at the top of their profession. 9-7 Is a fair estimate, but I don't think we will have to be lucky to achieve it!! For some reason you think we will be starting all new players, quite the contrary, we have only lost Surtain IMO as a significant player. All the rest were either avg. or nothing special. We still have JT, D.Bowens, Z.Thomas,JR.Seau,S.Madison, L.Chester and other leaders on D not to mention K.Carter,V.Holliday, K.Traylor all veteran roll players. On O we have only added solid veterans S.McDoogle, and D.Cook and we are hearing R.Hadnot and V.Carey are starting to show the ability to play. We didn't see this last year because Wise is not even close to the coach Houck is. Our line will be a strength not a weakness compare our line to your's palyer for player and starting and backup and you'll see your line fall wailfully short of ours!! BTW, I didn't even mention, James, St.Clair or McIntosh.


Well, from my point of view...we went 9-7 last year and haven't had many significant losses within the team except for PW and JJ. I think Ron Edwards will do well as PW's replacement, and he has experience (not a rookie). JJ might be harder to replace, but I do give McNally credit as being a great teacher and if he thinks Gandy has what it takes, then so be it. Who knows better than he? None of us, that's for sure!
Do you think had Miami not had such a bad luck season your team would have finished 9-7?? I certainly don't. Your team for sure showed signs of Improvement, but 9-7 is nothing special. How will they do with a rookie QB and a weaker line?? Who knows, the odds are against your team improving. You need to face the facts that your Oline is worse not better and thats not a good sign for an inexperienced QB starting behind center. I also have a problem with MM just handing PJ the starting Job, He should earn it by beating out Holcomb in camp. Giving him the job could lead to a false sense of security and could come back to bite MM.


Maybe I will be majorly disappointed this year. Maybe you will. But I will take the word of a professional coach who gets to see and work with these players up front than the word of a avg joe poster who is the fan of the rival team - makes sense, doesn't it?
You Oline coach will not step up and announce anything but positives for guys that they have to work into the starting lineup, it would be counterproductive to make Gandy question his own abilitys. If you have no depth which it appears you don't, then the best thing a coach can do is work with what he has and IMO, thats where the Bills stand right now. It's not a question of believing what your coach says, but rather undestanding what position he's in and what he has to work with!!


No I don't think SD's line was crap a year ago. But Miami doesn't have that line!!! Offenses take time to implement something new. Sometimes the players adapt to it well, and sometimes they don't. Gilbride was highly regarded when he came to Buffalo. But his style did not fit the personnel well and the rest is history. I have never said anything bad about Saban, and I haven't seen many people around here do so either. What we might say is that he is just starting to implement his system and that these things usually take time until the players adapt to what the coach wants.

Personally, I'm interested in how Saban handles any dissension in the locker room toward RW from the other players...that could amount to a distraction.<!-- / message --><!-- sig --> Now here is where I lose repect for your Football knoledge, SD's line was young and inexperienced Houck didn't have much to work with there. But it goes to show you what (technique, and understanding what your job is) can do to an Oline. I have read many times here that Saban will be another college HC that won't make it at the next level, even comparisons to S.Spurier and B.Davis.


Oh, and here is a little snipet from PFW to cooperate my statement from above!


We hear that Miami offensive line coach Hudson Houck, a 22-year NFL assistant who most recently worked wonders in San Diego by molding a young group of no-names into a playoff-caliber blocking unit, could be on his way to producing a similar transformation with a Dolphins O-line that underachieved and disappointed in 2004. Starting OLG Jeno Jamestold PFW that Houck’s teaching has instilled confidence in the players. “He has a zone scheme that I think is very good,” James said. “He also has a lot of history (guiding 11 linemen to 43 Pro Bowls), so it just feels good to have someone like that leading us.” James added that Houck’s system makes each player learn every position and promotes more awareness and cohesiveness. Word from the Dolphins’ June minicamp is that James, C Seth McKinney, ORG Rex Hadnot and ORT Stockar McDougle appear to have wrapped up starting spots <!-- / message -->




As for Ricky.....well lets be honest here, Ricky won't have the same responsibility in Saban/Linehans O as he did in Wanny's, and I think you know this. The reason Ricky left this team so devistated last year was because he was more then half the total O this team produced the year before and with Wanny being the lame duck coach he was had no backup plan...poor coaching was 75% of the teams woes last year Ricky and the other injurys were the other 25%. Bottom line, Ricky will be a solid addition...not the foundation of the success to this team. If Ricky does quit again or fail a drug test Saban will have this team looking forward as if Ricky never wore a fins uni!!! All Ricky will be is a solid addition nothing more nothing less.

[feelthepain]

Again what we say about feeley is proven fact
More like selective fact!!!

[feelthepain]

I think Elway started off running more then he should have, but he definitely was a scrambling QB. The most obvious example of a highly effective mobile QB is Steve Young. Brilliant runner who learned when to throw and when to run. He is obviously the proverbial "best case scenario" for Losman.

Other mobile QB's who have had success include Randal Cunningham (I don't think JP is that athletic), Warren Moon, Steve McNair (a few yers ago), a young Troy Aikman, etc.

None of those guys with the possible exceptions of Young and Cunningham are remotely close to Vick in terms of running ability, but they all picked up yardage with their legs when needed - especially early in their careers.

I agree, however JP maynot be on Vicks level,I've been reading that it was common place for him to run....alot, in college. In my book that makes you more then a scrambling QB it makes you a running QB. That usualy means you want to run even when you have time. I'm not saying JP can't be effective with his ability, what I am saying is that mentality could cost you some games at the pro level. Making an already tough task of being better then last even tougher,but to add all the other mistakes that go along with being a rookie QB, and not much of a line to help or TE's!!! Your GM has strtched this team thin. At the skill positions you can compete with anybody minus the QB because at this point it's a crap shoot, but your team has poor depth. If the injury bug hits this team, your in more trouble then most. I think TD has made some questionable calls.

[feelthepain]

the Talent is in Miami?

Where other then a speck here and there on D.

McMichael, Boston, and Chambers all blow - overrated underachievers.
Was there any knowledge in that opinion whatsoever???? I don't think so.

[feelthepain]

What I'd like to know, is how some (not all) of these Miami fans can call our weakness, etc. Yet, they use the same exact reasoning and excuses to call out their team strengths. They say our line will suck yet their line will get better because of Houck. Guess what? Jim McNally has also been argued to be the best o-line coach in football. Why can't our line improve under one of the best position coaches and Miami's can? Miami certainly isn't loaded up with anymore talent than Buffalo. Miami had a new OC, that's why they struggled. We had a rookie OC last season and improved. Miami will come together because Linehan is one of the best OC's in football. Wasn't Mularky also one of the best OC's in football? With another season together, and a QB that will allow for more diverse play calling, why can't Buffalo's team get better? Saban is a proven defensive coach, and he had the best defense in the NFL in 1994, so he'll definitely succeed. Gregg Williams had the number one rated defense in Tennessee before coming to Buffalo. He also had a top 5 defense while in Buffalo, and has a top 5 defense in Washington. That didn't help him all that much. I actually do like Saban, but I can't predice if he'll succeed either way. I need to actually watch him perform head coaching duties first. I felt the same way about Mularky last year, and I think he did a very good job.
You make a good point, I know your every bit as high on your team as I am with mine. However let me elaborate on some of your views.



They say our line will suck yet their line will get better because of Houck. Guess what? Jim McNally has also been argued to be the best o-line coach in football. Why can't our line improve under one of the best position coaches and Miami's can? Miami certainly isn't loaded up with anymore talent than Buffalo.
McNally didnt do much better then Wise last year and your line has lost talent. Does this mean McNally can't help them ofcourse not, but like it or not Miamis players are just better they are better then SD's line was a year ago at this time and Houck took a bunch of no name youngsters to a 12-4 record??? Besides no one is knocking McNallys ability. Just your talent.




Miami had a new OC, that's why they struggled. We had a rookie OC last season and improved. Miami will come together because Linehan is one of the best OC's in football. Wasn't Mularky also one of the best OC's in football?


Well lets be honest here although Clements was a rookie OC for your team, we all know it was Mularkey that ran the O and he, as you say...."Wasn't Mularky also one of the best OC's in football"? So you really didn't have a rookie OC now did you?? We also lost Ricky he was a far more productive player for the fins the two years before retired then any player in the history of the league on any team...I'd say that was kind of a BIG LOSS wouldn't you?? How do you think Clements would have handled that??? Oh, and don't forget Clements wouldn't have had a valid backup in the same situation.



Miami will come together because Linehan is one of the best OC's in football. Wasn't Mularky also one of the best OC's in football? With another season together, and a QB that will allow for more diverse play calling, why can't Buffalo's team get better?


First of all you call Clements a rookie OC, which he was. But then when you bring up the Linehan comparison you then speak of Mularkey. Nows not a time to sound whishy washy....Make a statement and stick to it. As for Linehan he is one of the best in the game, as is Mularkey but only one team will start a rookie QB and thats your team. Do not underestimate the importants of that. You can come back with all kinds of stuff about AJ, I don't care. AJ isn't a rookie and has nearly a full season with this group as their starter. The game against the Pats last year went a long way with the players and their respect for AJ's toughness and heart. JP is walking into unfamiliar territory. I hope you understand how perfect the stars would have to be alined for JP to have a great season as you Bill fans think he will. All I can say is wait and see.



Saban is a proven defensive coach, and he had the best defense in the NFL in 1994, so he'll definitely succeed. Gregg Williams had the number one rated defense in Tennessee before coming to Buffalo. He also had a top 5 defense while in Buffalo, and has a top 5 defense in Washington. That didn't help him all that much. I actually do like Saban, but I can't predice if he'll succeed either way. I need to actually watch him perform head coaching duties first. I felt the same way about Mularky last year, and I think he did a very good job.
Are you seriously gonna compare Williams to Saban??? I think you can do better then this. As you know GW did set your D up, and leave you with a top notch D, but thats all Williams did for your team. As much as we have to curb our excitement over what we have in Saban we still have to wait to see If Saban can coach at this level. He is known to coach both sides of the ball. Saban is an active part of every aspect of the team. Everyone loves him on both sides of the ball he preaches the word "team" and expects every player and to be held responsible for their part. Saban is the one who came in and took us from 17mill over the cap to about 8.5 under he drafted smart and brought in FA that fit what he wants to do. All this in just 6 months. I'd say he's on the right track.

[mysticsoto]

Why?? All but one of the new coaches are consider at the top of their profession. 9-7 Is a fair estimate, but I don't think we will have to be lucky to achieve it!! For some reason you think we will be starting all new players, quite the contrary, we have only lost Surtain IMO as a significant player. All the rest were either avg. or nothing special. We still have JT, D.Bowens, Z.Thomas,JR.Seau,S.Madison, L.Chester and other leaders on D not to mention K.Carter,V.Holliday, K.Traylor all veteran roll players. On O we have only added solid veterans S.McDoogle, and D.Cook and we are hearing R.Hadnot and V.Carey are starting to show the ability to play. We didn't see this last year because Wise is not even close to the coach Houck is. Our line will be a strength not a weakness compare our line to your's palyer for player and starting and backup and you'll see your line fall wailfully short of ours!! BTW, I didn't even mention, James, St.Clair or McIntosh. The problem is...you are in the toughest divisions in the entire NFL. It's not likely the Patriots will discount you this year. That's probably 2 losses there. You will, of course, lose 2 games to us, and the Jets...if Pennington doesn't get hurt, you will probably lose 2 games to them, or at the most optimistic, break even with them. That's 5 losses already. I also predict you will probably lose to the Falcons, Raiders and Chargers. Making for an 8-8 season...


Do you think had Miami not had such a bad luck season your team would have finished 9-7?? I certainly don't. Your team for sure showed signs of Improvement, but 9-7 is nothing special. How will they do with a rookie QB and a weaker line?? Who knows, the odds are against your team improving. You need to face the facts that your Oline is worse not better and thats not a good sign for an inexperienced QB starting behind center. I also have a problem with MM just handing PJ the starting Job, He should earn it by beating out Holcomb in camp. Giving him the job could lead to a false sense of security and could come back to bite MM. Hey, 2 of those 1st 4 games were really close and could have gone either way. In some of those early games, I felt MM made some bad calls. But he's a rookie coach and I don't hold it against him. But I feel we could have just as easily been 11-5.

Saying we have a weaker line is your opinion. The center, RG and RT are the same. Except that Mike Williams is in shape this year and 40 lbs lighter!!! That to me is an improvement. Willis got most of his yard running to the right with Chris Villarial and a fat, overweight, slow Mike Williams. I'd like to see what he can do this year, with a faster, leaner Mike Williams and a faster and stronger Willis!!!

At LG, we started with Lawrence Smith who showed good signs, but ultimately had to be replaced with Tucker b'cse of his inexperience. Tucker did play well enough as the line improved throughout the season. Now he's been replaced with Bennie Anderson...you only replace someone with someone better! It wouldn't make sense to take Tucker out if Anderson wasn't better. He helped Jamaal run for 2000+ yards. Since we have a running offense, it's sort of common sense to feel that he will be an upgrade - a massive upgrade. He is 345 lbs. Tucker is 316 lbs. They are almost the same height, but Anderson is 30 lbs heavier - that's a good thing. Oh, and Anderson has more experience than Tucker and Smith combined!!! Last year, Anderson did not allow the Steelers to get a sack - if you know anything about the Steelers, you'll know that they use some complicated blitzing packages. Yet nobody got through him! In fact, he had several games without allowing a sack go through him.

Which brings us to LT...everybody is down on Gandy. I've said it before and I will keep saying it. If McNally thinks he's got it, then I'm willing to give him a chance. There's really nothing else that can be said until we see him play. He is not a rookie and he's got NFL experience. But even if that is a weakness in our line. It is one side. Every other position is solid. And McGahee will have 4/5 (that's 80%) of the line solid in which to use to run! That's pretty good to me.


You Oline coach will not step up and announce anything but positives for guys that they have to work into the starting lineup, it would be counterproductive to make Gandy question his own abilitys. If you have no depth which it appears you don't, then the best thing a coach can do is work with what he has and IMO, thats where the Bills stand right now. It's not a question of believing what your coach says, but rather undestanding what position he's in and what he has to work with!! We have no depth? Now here I've lost respect for your football knowledge. We have so much better depth now, that we didn't even bother to sign Marcus Price! AND...more importantly, the type of depth that we have allows the depth players to play different positions. They are not locked into 1 position and 1 position only. And all drafted choices were clearly carefully selected by McNally - as they were no names with low profiles. Instead of choosing a Munoz or Terry who were well known names - McNally went for intelligence and other intangibles that he values more highly. Given his success rate, I rather go with who HE thinks will be a success vs another just b'cse they may have some from a well known school and therefore people have familiarity with their name. It means McNally and TD don't give in to sensationalism!!!


Now here is where I lose repect for your Football knoledge, SD's line was young and inexperienced Houck didn't have much to work with there. But it goes to show you what (technique, and understanding what your job is) can do to an Oline. I have read many times here that Saban will be another college HC that won't make it at the next level, even comparisons to S.Spurier and B.Davis.
It's funny how you give credit to Houck but don't give any credit to McNally - I think TedMock called you on that. I know you don't seem to think McNally did much last year - again, showing your ignorance in football knowledge. In 2003, we had a net difference of -16 in turnovers in offense. Tied for last place in the NFL! In 2004, we were +10 and in 7th place...from 32nd place to 7th in 1 year??? I think that's pretty good and think he deserves alot more credit than you are giving him!!! That includes sacks, interceptions, etc. And all of these categories are influenced by how well the line is playing. The sacks are obviously influenced with good pick ups of players, as well as blitzers. You apparently don't know this, but McNally lowered the amount of sacks in 2004 to 38 - that's the lowest it's been since 1998!!!


Oh, and here is a little snipet from PFW to cooperate my statement from above!

As for Ricky.....well lets be honest here, Ricky won't have the same responsibility in Saban/Linehans O as he did in Wanny's, and I think you know this. The reason Ricky left this team so devistated last year was because he was more then half the total O this team produced the year before and with Wanny being the lame duck coach he was had no backup plan...poor coaching was 75% of the teams woes last year Ricky and the other injurys were the other 25%. Bottom line, Ricky will be a solid addition...not the foundation of the success to this team. If Ricky does quit again or fail a drug test Saban will have this team looking forward as if Ricky never wore a fins uni!!! All Ricky will be is a solid addition nothing more nothing less. I don't disagree with this and don't really have too much to say here. I think Ronnie Brown is probably an all around better RB, but Ricky might be able to be used in certain specific situations - if anything, he gives you good depth. But I still say that if I were a fin fan, I think I would still be pissed at him. Some of you seem to have forgiven him already and I guess I don't forgive that easily. Or maybe you've forgiven him b'cse with a 4-12 season, you are desperate...

[Bulldog]

Why?? All but one of the new coaches are consider at the top of their profession. 9-7 Is a fair estimate, but I don't think we will have to be lucky to achieve it!! For some reason you think we will be starting all new players, quite the contrary, we have only lost Surtain IMO as a significant player. All the rest were either avg. or nothing special. We still have JT, D.Bowens, Z.Thomas,JR.Seau,S.Madison, L.Chester and other leaders on D not to mention K.Carter,V.Holliday, K.Traylor all veteran roll players. On O we have only added solid veterans S.McDoogle, and D.Cook and we are hearing R.Hadnot and V.Carey are starting to show the ability to play. We didn't see this last year because Wise is not even close to the coach Houck is. Our line will be a strength not a weakness compare our line to your's palyer for player and starting and backup and you'll see your line fall wailfully short of ours!! BTW, I didn't even mention, James, St.Clair or McIntosh.

Fall wailfully short of Miami's line? :lmao: I knew this was going to happen. Miami actually got a respected line coach and now the entire line will be starting in the pro-bowl. And I'm glad you didn't mention James, St. Clair, or McIntosh, because they suck. Like I said earlier, the line will improve, but not as much as you seem to think. And by the way, Miami's secondary will be a major weakness this year!


Do you think had Miami not had such a bad luck season your team would have finished 9-7?? I certainly don't. Your team for sure showed signs of Improvement, but 9-7 is nothing special. How will they do with a rookie QB and a weaker line?? Who knows, the odds are against your team improving. You need to face the facts that your Oline is worse not better and thats not a good sign for an inexperienced QB starting behind center. I also have a problem with MM just handing PJ the starting Job, He should earn it by beating out Holcomb in camp. Giving him the job could lead to a false sense of security and could come back to bite MM.

Who ever said 9-7 was anything special? I know one thing, it sure beats 4-12. And who exactly is going to challenge Feeley? Gus, who last started in the NFL in 1997? Please!


You Oline coach will not step up and announce anything but positives for guys that they have to work into the starting lineup, it would be counterproductive to make Gandy question his own abilitys. If you have no depth which it appears you don't, then the best thing a coach can do is work with what he has and IMO, thats where the Bills stand right now. It's not a question of believing what your coach says, but rather undestanding what position he's in and what he has to work with!!.

Yeah, I know, Miami has so much talent on the o-line. Last years problems were all related to coaching. Miami should be able to challenge KC this year for the best line in football. As for Buffalo's depth, L. Smith and Tucker both started games last year at some point. However, depth at the tackle positions is thin to say the least. I think at least one additional OL will be added prior to TC. We'll see.


Now here is where I lose repect for your Football knoledge, SD's line was young and inexperienced Houck didn't have much to work with there. But it goes to show you what (technique, and understanding what your job is) can do to an Oline. I have read many times here that Saban will be another college HC that won't make it at the next level, even comparisons to S.Spurier and B.Davis.

A.) Where was that said?
B.) What proof do you have to dispute it?

Before you start crying, I DO think Saban will be success in the NFL.



Oh, and here is a little snipet from PFW to cooperate my statement from above!

<!-- / message -->





As for Ricky.....well lets be honest here, Ricky won't have the same responsibility in Saban/Linehans O as he did in Wanny's, and I think you know this. The reason Ricky left this team so devistated last year was because he was more then half the total O this team produced the year before and with Wanny being the lame duck coach he was had no backup plan...poor coaching was 75% of the teams woes last year Ricky and the other injurys were the other 25%. Bottom line, Ricky will be a solid addition...not the foundation of the success to this team. If Ricky does quit again or fail a drug test Saban will have this team looking forward as if Ricky never wore a fins uni!!! All Ricky will be is a solid addition nothing more nothing less.

I don't think you can blame 75% of last year on poor coaching. I would say that Miami's QB play, or lack there of, played a significant role in the struggles of last year. That, combined with Ricky quitting, were major factors.

[Bulldog]

McNally didnt do much better then Wise last year and your line has lost talent. Does this mean McNally can't help them ofcourse not, but like it or not Miamis players are just better they are better then SD's line was a year ago at this time and Houck took a bunch of no name youngsters to a 12-4 record??? Besides no one is knocking McNallys ability. Just your talent.

Who on Miami's line is so talented? And now Miami has more talent on their line than SD? Homer alert! You base all of these opinions on nothing more than your bias for the Dolphins. I can at least acknowledge that Buffalo's weakness is going to be at left tackle. But you on the other hand, need to make all sorts of excuses as to why Miami's line was a pile of crap last year and refuse to admit that they're just not that talented. I mean you talk about these players like we're supposed to be impressed or something. And how is it that Houck will be able to take a bunch of average at best offensive lineman and turn them into a well oiled machine but McNally won't? And don't bother pointing out what he did in SD last year. McNally took a rag tag bunch when he was with the Giants and they went to the Super Bowl with that line.

[TedMock]

You make a good point, I know your every bit as high on your team as I am with mine. However let me elaborate on some of your views.

McNally didnt do much better then Wise last year and your line has lost talent. Does this mean McNally can't help them ofcourse not, but like it or not Miamis players are just better they are better then SD's line was a year ago at this time and Houck took a bunch of no name youngsters to a 12-4 record??? Besides no one is knocking McNallys ability. Just your talent.




Well lets be honest here although Clements was a rookie OC for your team, we all know it was Mularkey that ran the O and he, as you say...."Wasn't Mularky also one of the best OC's in football"? So you really didn't have a rookie OC now did you?? We also lost Ricky he was a far more productive player for the fins the two years before retired then any player in the history of the league on any team...I'd say that was kind of a BIG LOSS wouldn't you?? How do you think Clements would have handled that??? Oh, and don't forget Clements wouldn't have had a valid backup in the same situation.



First of all you call Clements a rookie OC, which he was. But then when you bring up the Linehan comparison you then speak of Mularkey. Nows not a time to sound whishy washy....Make a statement and stick to it. As for Linehan he is one of the best in the game, as is Mularkey but only one team will start a rookie QB and thats your team. Do not underestimate the importants of that. You can come back with all kinds of stuff about AJ, I don't care. AJ isn't a rookie and has nearly a full season with this group as their starter. The game against the Pats last year went a long way with the players and their respect for AJ's toughness and heart. JP is walking into unfamiliar territory. I hope you understand how perfect the stars would have to be alined for JP to have a great season as you Bill fans think he will. All I can say is wait and see.

Are you seriously gonna compare Williams to Saban??? I think you can do better then this. As you know GW did set your D up, and leave you with a top notch D, but thats all Williams did for your team. As much as we have to curb our excitement over what we have in Saban we still have to wait to see If Saban can coach at this level. He is known to coach both sides of the ball. Saban is an active part of every aspect of the team. Everyone loves him on both sides of the ball he preaches the word "team" and expects every player and to be held responsible for their part. Saban is the one who came in and took us from 17mill over the cap to about 8.5 under he drafted smart and brought in FA that fit what he wants to do. All this in just 6 months. I'd say he's on the right track.


First of all, I want to make clear that I would never take anything away from Saban as I think he's a fine coach. We'll see how he does as a NFL head coach.

I actually disagree that McNally didn't do that well. Our line did a complete 180 with an average center and pi$$-poor LGs. Jennings, Teague, and Williams all had career years at their respective positions. Jennings was grossly overpaid because of it. Yes, he's gone, but we don't know if Gandy is a dropoff. Statistically he's no worse. Whether or not he can stay healthy, we'll see. LG is an upgrade, all else remains equal.

Clements was our OC, but he was lucky enough to have Mularky as an advisor. I don't know if Mularky was doing the play calling, etc. How could any of us? Either way, Clements was a rookie OC. If he wasn't calling the plays, our rookie head coach was doing two jobs which is even more difficult. Slice it how you want, he was still a rookie head coach taking on new responsibilities. No wishy-washy feelings here. One thing you'll realize is that I'm a fanactic about this sport and it's history, so I won't stay on the fence unless there is nothing to go on ie. Willis last year, Ronnie Brown this year, etc. Sometimes we just have to wait to see. Yes, of course Ricky Williams was a huge loss, he was your entire offense. I never suggested that he wasn't a big loss. Of course I feel that Clements and Linehan would both be more creative in the same situation thus yielding better results.

JP is definitely the wild card this year. Same as Bledsoe was last year. If he plays above average (not great, just within his limits), we do well. Otherwise, we'll struggle through another tough year. He is a rookie, so that's not out of the question. So far, he's doing all the right things and putting forth offseason effort we haven't seen from a QB in 9 years. Of course we feel excited. Bledsoe never went above average, so that wild card just didn't work out. Everything else was falling into place. I actually believe the same holds true for AJ Feely. If he plays within himself Miami may be okay. I have nothing against Feely, so you won't see me bad-mouthing him. I've actually met him several times through a good friend of mine that played with him, and he's a very cool guy. Even partied with him at my buddy's wedding, and got the inside scoop on his feelings last training camp.

I also absolutely think we can compare GW to Saban. Why not? Both are proven, successful football coaches. Both kicked butt as DC's. GW did it longer, but Saban has head coaching experience in college. Some succeed, some don't. I would hope that all head coaches are involved in all aspects of their teams. Spurrier was one that wasn't and we know how that panned out. I'd be disappointed if our coach wanted nothing to do with defensive meetings. Lou Holtz, Don McPherson, Pete Carroll, Steve Spurrier, and June Jones are all examples of excellent college coaches that weren't cut out for the big show. Only time will tell.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

There is a difference between what JP does and what Favre, Elway and Gannon did/do. They all threw first and would run last JP will think run first before he thinks pass...see the difference here??? Just because those QB's would run occasionally doesn't qualify them as scrambling QB's it simply means they weren't permanent fixtures in the backfield. Would you put those QB's in the same categorey as Vick?.... No!.... Why??? Because Vick will have nearly as many yrds rushing as his RB every year when did Elway, Favre, or Gannon ever do that?? Thas the difference between a scrambling QB and running QB!!!
First of all, zero validity to your point. Do you really think ANY NFL team would draft a QB who's mentality is to "run first and pass second"? Besides, if you knew anything about JP you'd know he was a pass first, run second QB at Tulane. What the hell does Vick have to do with anything? Of course, these guys aren't in the same league as him. No one is. Elway, Favre, and Gannon were able to scramble when they had to and their coaches often designed plays that allowed them hold the ball and run if they felt it would be effective. Do you watch football????

[feelthepain]

Who on Miami's line is so talented? And now Miami has more talent on their line than SD? Homer alert! You base all of these opinions on nothing more than your bias for the Dolphins. I can at least acknowledge that Buffalo's weakness is going to be at left tackle. But you on the other hand, need to make all sorts of excuses as to why Miami's line was a pile of crap last year and refuse to admit that they're just not that talented. I mean you talk about these players like we're supposed to be impressed or something. And how is it that Houck will be able to take a bunch of average at best offensive lineman and turn them into a well oiled machine but McNally won't? And don't bother pointing out what he did in SD last year. McNally took a rag tag bunch when he was with the Giants and they went to the Super Bowl with that line.

You can think what you like about the fins line, but you seem to forget that J.James was on a Superbowl line in Carolina and McDougle is a big upgrade over our RT from last year he's also lost about 20 lbs and has a big chip on his sholder over some comments made by his previous coach that were unfounded. The word out of Miami is Hadnot could be a superstar in the making in college he NEVER gave up a sack and holds the NCAA record for pancakes as a center, and Houck himself said he doesn't understand what the previous coach was doing but he was given the opporitunity to examine the talent here BEFORE JOINING the fins he said he was impressed with the talent already here!! Does this contradict your opinion, most definitely does it support the fin fans optimisim and confirm what we already knew???Yes, definitely.

[Bulldog]

You can think what you like about the fins line, but you seem to forget that J.James was on a Superbowl line in Carolina and McDougle is a big upgrade over our RT from last year he's also lost about 20 lbs and has a big chip on his sholder over some comments made by his previous coach that were unfounded. The word out of Miami is Hadnot could be a superstar in the making in college he NEVER gave up a sack and holds the NCAA record for pancakes as a center, and Houck himself said he doesn't understand what the previous coach was doing but he was given the opporitunity to examine the talent here BEFORE JOINING the fins he said he was impressed with the talent already here!! Does this contradict your opinion, most definitely does it support the fin fans optimisim and confirm what we already knew???Yes, definitely.

You're a mess. In one post you say that McNally praises his o-lineman because that's what a coach has to do/is supposed to do. So what is Houck supposed to do, come out and say he thinks that the guys that Miami currently has on the roster aren't going to get the job done. Nice double standard you have there. And I could care less if J. James was on a Superbowl line in Carolina. Glenn Parker and Dusty Zeigler were both on Superbowl lines with McNally in NY. Whats your point? Buffalo has improved at the left guard position with Anderson and with Mike Williams coming into camp in the best shape of his Bills career, I expect the line to make strides again this year. LT is definitely a concern, I guess we'll have to see what Gandy is capable of. From your point of view, does Miami have any weaknesses on the o-line? This should be interesting.

[mysticsoto]

You're a mess. In one post you say that McNally praises his o-lineman because that's what a coach has to do/is supposed to do. So what is Houck supposed to do, come out and say he thinks that the guys that Miami currently has on the roster aren't going to get the job done. Nice double standard you have there. And I could care less if J. James was on a Superbowl line in Carolina. Glenn Parker and Dusty Zeigler were both on Superbowl lines with McNally in NY. Whats your point? Buffalo has improved at the left guard position with Anderson and with Mike Williams coming into camp in the best shape of his Bills career, I expect the line to make strides again this year. LT is definitely a concern, I guess we'll have to see what Gandy is capable of. From your point of view, does Miami have any weaknesses on the o-line? This should be interesting.
I can't believe you stole what I was going to say!!! I was just about to start preparing my post and mention the EXACT argument FTP has been using against McNally..."Well of course Houck is going to say that. He's not going to say something bad about Miami players. Plus he wants them to be confident so he's going to say good things about them." Then I was going to say..."Have you heard that before???"

...I mean, it's okay to love your team and be a strong fan, but it's another thing to be so biased that you cannot distinguish when you contradict yourself and use an argument against your rivals and then turn 180 degrees and use the same argument FOR your team...

[feelthepain]

...I mean, it's okay to love your team and be a strong fan, but it's another thing to be so biased that you cannot distinguish when you contradict yourself and use an argument against your rivals and then turn 180 degrees and use the same argument FOR your team...So once again take your own advise, stop talking trash just because the jills had a better season. That was last year, your line is...not good, and will be a weakness this year PJ will be beat up from the start. As for contradictin yourself, I think you invented the term!!! You trash the fins and say AJ is a third string QB and he will never be anything but that, then you go on to say how great PJ will be and how he's already a franchise QB. But I'm the homer?!?! I will defend my team from the likes of you. I don't give a rats @$$ if you like what I have to say or not.

[Bulldog]

So once again take your own advise, stop talking trash just because the jills had a better season. That was last year, your line is...not good, and will be a weakness this year PJ will be beat up from the start. As for contradictin yourself, I think you invented the term!!! You trash the fins and say AJ is a third string QB and he will never be anything but that, then you go on to say how great PJ will be and how he's already a franchise QB. But I'm the homer?!?! I will defend my team from the likes of you. I don't give a rats @$$ if you like what I have to say or not.

Find me a quote where anyone on here said Losman would be a franchise QB. The only thing I've ever said is that I would rather have a QB that has the potential to be good rather than a third stringer that I've seen play and know isn't good. And you are a homer. I will ask this again, is there any areas on Miami's o-line that you feel are a wekness? Or are they all going to be Probowlers as a result of the magician Houck.

[mysticsoto]

So once again take your own advise, stop talking trash just because the jills had a better season. That was last year, your line is...not good, and will be a weakness this year PJ will be beat up from the start. As for contradictin yourself, I think you invented the term!!! You trash the fins and say AJ is a third string QB and he will never be anything but that, then you go on to say how great PJ will be and how he's already a franchise QB. But I'm the homer?!?! I will defend my team from the likes of you. I don't give a rats @$$ if you like what I have to say or not.
This is just like you...I catch you in a contradiction and you avoid it like the plague and try and change the topic not to mention change it around to me. I addressed the Bills O-line two posts ago in this thread, and gave you evidence of how the line improved with McNally in the 1st year with lower turnovers and the lowest sack numbers we've had in 6 years. And that was with a line that hadn't gelled for the 1st 4 games with a 40 lb overweight and injured MW and a revolving door at LG until Tucker took over. I noticed you didn't answer. I guess there was too much logic, too many facts and statistics that backed up the line improvement for you to be able to counter with your irrational "your line sucks..." answers that have nothing to back them up.

Nice try, but here's the difference between a homer and a regular fan. Regular fans back up what they say with facts and proof - making it real. Homers irrationally yell what they believe and continue to yell it without ever providing any substantiating proof...making it imaginary and only in their minds and minds of other homers like them! Kind of like you did above...

[feelthepain]

This is just like you...I catch you in a contradiction and you avoid it like the plague and try and change the topic not to mention change it around to me. I addressed the Bills O-line two posts ago in this thread, and gave you evidence of how the line improved with McNally in the 1st year with lower turnovers and the lowest sack numbers we've had in 6 years. And that was with a line that hadn't gelled for the 1st 4 games with a 40 lb overweight and injured MW and a revolving door at LG until Tucker took over. I noticed you didn't answer. I guess there was too much logic, too many facts and statistics that backed up the line improvement for you to be able to counter with your irrational "your line sucks..." answers that have nothing to back them up.

Nice try, but here's the difference between a homer and a regular fan. Regular fans back up what they say with facts and proof - making it real. Homers irrationally yell what they believe and continue to yell it without ever providing any substantiating proof...making it imaginary and only in their minds and minds of other homers like them! Kind of like you did above...What substantial proof?????THIS SITE IS FOR OPINIONS!!!! I'm entitltled to my own opinion, as you are yours. Where's your substatial proof the Jills will improve...you don't have any, you only have your warped opinion??? Do I need to use a bigger font so you can read my opinion or are you just so dumb you just simply can't read and understand the concept of these forums??? And BTW, I provide facts all the time to backup my opinion so why do you constantly tell me I don't back up what I say with facts??? You're delusional, just because you don't like my opinion or the facts, it's your problem not mine. Stop responding to my posts if you don't like my opinion, but it's my opinion none the less. You can blow your own horn, but no one else can?? Grow up, and deal with the fact not everyone sees the world through your narrow mind. Oh, your not always right either, just another factoid your immature and shouldn't be posting without a parent or gaurdian.

[Bulldog]

What substantial proof?????THIS SITE IS FOR OPINIONS!!!! I'm entitltled to my own opinion, as you are yours. Where's your substatial proof the Jills will improve...you don't have any, you only have your warped opinion??? Do I need to use a bigger font so you can read my opinion or are you just so dumb you just simply can't read and understand the concept of these forums??? And BTW, I provide facts all the time to backup my opinion so why do you constantly tell me I don't back up what I say with facts??? You're delusional, just because you don't like my opinion or the facts, it's your problem not mine. Stop responding to my posts if you don't like my opinion, but it's my opinion none the less. You can blow your own horn, but no one else can?? Grow up, and deal with the fact not everyone sees the world through your narrow mind. Oh, your not always right either, just another factoid your immature and shouldn't be posting without a parent or gaurdian.

Very intelligent post on your part. Apparently you've run out of excuses and BS, so you resort to insulting people. Good job. Are you ever going to answer my question? IN YOUR OPINION, DOES MIAMI HAVE ANY WEAKNESSES ALONG THE O-LINE?

[mysticsoto]

What substantial proof?????THIS SITE IS FOR OPINIONS!!!! I'm entitltled to my own opinion, as you are yours. Where's your substatial proof the Jills will improve...you don't have any, you only have your warped opinion??? Do I need to use a bigger font so you can read my opinion or are you just so dumb you just simply can't read and understand the concept of these forums??? And BTW, I provide facts all the time to backup my opinion so why do you constantly tell me I don't back up what I say with facts??? You're delusional, just because you don't like my opinion or the facts, it's your problem not mine. Stop responding to my posts if you don't like my opinion, but it's my opinion none the less. You can blow your own horn, but no one else can?? Grow up, and deal with the fact not everyone sees the world through your narrow mind. Oh, your not always right either, just another factoid your immature and shouldn't be posting without a parent or gaurdian. I knew this was coming..."I can't argue against the stats and facts so I have to resort to name calling and call you 'dumb', 'delusional', 'narrow-minded' etc - and then when you retaliate later, I'll say you and Bills fans in general are always calling me names and I'm just defending myself and my team."

You want stats crybaby, here they are. Our line improved a great deal last year. Lowest sack total in 6 years. Turnovers went from -16 to +10 on offense - from tied for last (#32) to #7 in the NFL. McNally improved our line tremendously and now we have a massive road grater in Bennie Anderson to assume the LG position.

So when you cry and whine about us having the worst line and that it sucks, YES, it is your opinion...it is your HOMER opinion. You have absolutely nothing to back that up but your whiny posting opinion and the facts on last year's season contradict your whiny opinion! And here's another fact for you, she-male, while our line was improving last year, your Dophins line SUCKED really bad. That must really kill you!!! With a massive road grater at LG, and McNally in his 2nd year implementing his teaching and system, with MW in the best shape he's been in, and a QB that is not glued to the ground, our line will be even better than it was last year.

Once again logic and knowledge rule over idiodicy and Homer vision!

And please...don't talk about immature, dumb, delusional, or posting about parents/guardians until you learn how to spell - your posting is written on a sub-elementary school level basis. I believe you'll start learning to spell in the 2nd or 3rd grade. Although, from what I gather, you probably take the little bus to school. In which case, you'll be needing to learn how to control those voices in your head first.

[mysticsoto]

Very intelligent post on your part. Apparently you've run out of excuses and BS, so you resort to insulting people. Good job. Are you ever going to answer my question? IN YOUR OPINION, DOES MIAMI HAVE ANY WEAKNESSES ALONG THE O-LINE?
He can't answer this question b'cse either way, it exposes him to the truth of his line. If he says yes, they have weaknesses, he admits that they are not great and that the likelihood of them all of a sudden being great after last year's dismal performance is quite unlikely. I mean, in truth, they have no where to go but up, but the level to which he thinks they will go up to will sorely disappoint him. If he says no - they have no weaknesses, he exposes himself to being an extreme homer who will be called out when the season comes by and we find Feeley performing poorly due to sacks and unconfidence in his line as well as the problems Brown may have running due to such a porous line. Then he won't have anyone to blame and will have to do one of his famous backtracks...or do like he's doing with your questions and just ignore them and hope you don't bring it up again.

A psychologist might call this a classical denial and repression cycle. I guess his father should have hugged him more...