Where's FTP???

[mysticsoto]

As usual, FTP disappears when reality hits him and he realizes he's wrong. It looks like Gus has been all but named the starter:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-dolphins24aug24,0,4929431.story?coll=sfla-dolphins-front

With the Dolphins considering bringing Tim Couch in, I wonder if they might want to consider Phillip Rivers from SD. Personally, I don't think he's great and I don't like his style, but some people do. He might also be a little expensive - but when you are desperate...

If they go in with what they have, they are essentially conceding the season and waiting to get a franchise QB next year along with some serious Oline help...and we all know that QBs rarely produce in their 1st year, so this means that they are pushing off a decent season for 2-3 years!!!

Are the fairweather Miami fans going to stick it out with their team through the thick and thin with Saban for that long?

[Dicknoze69]

Rivers will be starting in San Diego next year. They will either let Brees walk or pull a TD/Peerless trick and deal him.

[Shasta McNasty]

Drew Brees might end up in MIA next year as a FA.

[The King]

If I am Miami I would rather hold out for Leinhart then take Rivers or Brees. Miami needs a fresh start.

[Captain Obvious]

Look under the rock FTP has crawled under.

[Mr. Miyagi]

If I am Miami I would rather hold out for Leinhart then take Rivers or Brees. Miami needs a fresh start.
I was just going to say that. :bf1:

[justasportsfan]

As usual, FTP disappears when reality hits him and he realizes he's wrong. he's somewhere feeling the pain of that news.

[mysticsoto]

If I am Miami I would rather hold out for Leinhart then take Rivers or Brees. Miami needs a fresh start.
Even though starting over with Leinhart would mean they would also need a new defense by the time he's ready to contribute? Their Defense is aging as we speak. I mean, in their locker room, it must sound like popping plastic bubble wrap every time they stretch...

Mind you...I'm not saying I care, but I just think that this path will lead them on a long journey before they are a good team again - and I have to wonder if the fairweather Miami fans would be willing to take that long or if they would turn on Saban long before...

[mysticsoto]

he's somewhere feeling the pain of that news.
LOL! From the looks of it, he's going to be feeling the pain for some time. How astute of him to choose such an appropriate name...

[MDFINFAN]

I'd take Rivers, that is a fresh start, but I still think AJ's the answer and Gus's the stop gap until AJ is fully caught up on this system.

[BillsFever21]

What a great 2nd round pick Feely was. :roflmao:

[feelthepain]

As usual, FTP disappears when reality hits him and he realizes he's wrong. It looks like Gus has been all but named the starter:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-dolphins24aug24,0,4929431.story?coll=sfla-dolphins-front

With the Dolphins considering bringing Tim Couch in, I wonder if they might want to consider Phillip Rivers from SD. Personally, I don't think he's great and I don't like his style, but some people do. He might also be a little expensive - but when you are desperate...

If they go in with what they have, they are essentially conceding the season and waiting to get a franchise QB next year along with some serious Oline help...and we all know that QBs rarely produce in their 1st year, so this means that they are pushing off a decent season for 2-3 years!!!

Are the fairweather Miami fans going to stick it out with their team through the thick and thin with Saban for that long?

As usual you believe evrything you read, unless someone bashes your team ofcourse, then they are idiots who don't know anything about football. How terribly mature of you. I'm still here and will be, I'll enjoy the fact that the Bills will be avg. once again and lucky to split with any division rival. I also read that Miami's D is getting older as we speak....really, I guess yours never agaes huh?? I think we added much more and younger players to our D this year and all you did was lose a run stuffer and added nothing, zero,zip,notta ,nothing sorta like your personality!! No, check that....exactly like your personality.

[jmb1099]

As usual you believe evrything you read, unless someone bashes your team ofcourse, then they are idiots who don't know anything about football. How terribly mature of you. I'm still here and will be, I'll enjoy the fact that the Bills will be avg. once again and lucky to split with any division rival. I also read that Miami's D is getting older as we speak....really, I guess yours never agaes huh?? I think we added much more and younger players to our D this year and all you did was lose a run stuffer and added nothing, zero,zip,notta ,nothing sorta like your personality!! No, check that....exactly like your personality.
Baghdad Bob, Michael Jackson, and Feelthepain...all classic cases of denial.

[Bulldog]

As usual you believe evrything you read, unless someone bashes your team ofcourse, then they are idiots who don't know anything about football. How terribly mature of you. I'm still here and will be, I'll enjoy the fact that the Bills will be avg. once again and lucky to split with any division rival. I also read that Miami's D is getting older as we speak....really, I guess yours never agaes huh?? I think we added much more and younger players to our D this year and all you did was lose a run stuffer and added nothing, zero,zip,notta ,nothing sorta like your personality!! No, check that....exactly like your personality.

Really, name the younger players that Miami added to the defense. And Buffalo's defense was 2nd in the NFL last year, what did they really need to add? Another really stupid post from FTP.

[finsrclowns]

As usual you believe evrything you read, unless someone bashes your team ofcourse, then they are idiots who don't know anything about football.

Right. Like the recent NFL power rankings. No doubt written by idiots. Fins 30th? :lmao:

[Samphin1]

What a great 2nd round pick Feely was. :roflmao:


Not any worse than that first rounder you guys coughed up for Drew Bledsoe. Plus, you gave it to a fellow team within the AFC East. Smart move Buffalo.

As for conceding, I doubt it. I don't think any team concedes anything. If that was the case, Brees would be out of San Diego and Rivers would be starting. Brees hung tough, played hard and won.

While I don't doubt that Miami is looking for a longer term solution at QB ( please god not Tim Couch ), I don't think they would be stupid enough to "tank" a season by starting Gus for any number of reasons. Be it to get Leinart ( who BTW, is coming of a serious shoulder surgery ), Omar Jacobs or Drew Brees. Players at this level aren't geared like that and neither are the coaches.

Where did this label of fairwethered fin fans come from? Hell, the same can be said about Buffalo fans. Those fairwethered Bills fans are horrible...see? Simple as that. Just because you say it, doesn't make it true.

[Samphin1]

Really, name the younger players that Miami added to the defense. And Buffalo's defense was 2nd in the NFL last year, what did they really need to add? Another really stupid post from FTP.


Well, Channing Crowder who has been tearing it up in camp for one. Also, Travis Daniels, another rookie who seems to be playing pretty well. Might even start opening day. Donnie Spragan, another starting linebacker who has played remarkable well in a new scheme. Josh Shaw has played very well on on D-line and should get some time in the rotation this year. Matt Roth has shown great signs of imporvement over the last few weeks as well. In fact, he was playing and holding is own with the first unit against Pittsburgh and even got a sack and a few other pressures.

Buffalo was only second on yards allowed which is misleading. Miami was a top ten D last year too I believe, but that doesn't mean they were a dominant unit. While I feel Buffalo is a great defensive team LAST YEAR, that doesn't guarentee anything for this next year and year's to come. Besides, seeing how Clements wants to be payed like he is the best CB in the league after this year, you may have some problems moving forward.

[Mr.Right]

Why are Bills fans' criticizing other teams' starting QB's? :idunno:
Here's Losman's 2004 'stats':
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000
Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Todd Collins, and Akili Smith were 'supposed' to be good coming out of college too. :shocked:
You better 'worry' about your own team:nervous: I don't see them winning many games this season! :sorry:

[feelthepain]

Really, name the younger players that Miami added to the defense. And Buffalo's defense was 2nd in the NFL last year, what did they really need to add? Another really stupid post from FTP. (ftp://ftp./)How bout.....Matt Roth DT/DE/LB in the 2nd, Channing Crowder MLB in the 3rd, and Travis Daniels CB in the 4th Kevin Vickers DT/DE in the 7th and supp.draft Manny Wright!!!Thats a whole lotta youth on the D!! But keep on believing Miamis D is getting old!! Just goes to show the lack of football knowledge from several bill posters here....isn't that right mystic???


BTW, Miami finished 8th overall in D and had the 2nd best secondary in the league. And that was a 4-12 team,finishing 8th in overall D and 2nd in pass D....in case you didn't get it the first time. Now we added 3 out of our first four draft picks and brought in players like Kevin Carter, Vonnie Holiday, Donnie Spragan and Kieth Traylor to our D. I'd say our D has gotten much stronger then yours!!! And we had a good season on D last year, even though we couldn't stop the run fro too many injurys. We will be better on D this year and yours will take a step backwards. As for the really dumb statement that you really don't need to add better players to your D because you 2nd ranked D last year!!! WOW...I wish you were HC, but I guess I don't have to wish for it your brillant HC doesn't think the D needs to improve, good for us and sucks for you. You'll see.

[Captain Obvious]

Why are Bills fans' criticizing other teams' starting QB's? :idunno:
Here's Losman's 2004 'stats':
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000
Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Todd Collins, and Akili Smith were 'supposed' to be good coming out of college too. :shocked:
You better 'worry' about your own team:nervous: I don't see them winning many games this season! :sorry:
You forgot Jim Druckenmiller? Or was it Drunkenmiller? LOL

[Captain Obvious]

How bout.....Matt Roth DT/DE/LB in the 2nd, Channing Crowder MLB in the 3rd, and Travis Daniels CB in the 4th Kevin Vickers DT/DE in the 7th and supp.draft Manny Wright!!!Thats a whole lotta youth on the D!! But keep on believing Miamis D is getting old!! Just goes to show the lack of football knowledge from several bill posters here....isn't that right mystic???


BTW, Miami finished 8th overall in D and had the second best secondary in the league. Now we added 3 out of our first four draft picks and brought in players like Kevin Carter, Vonnie Holiday, Donnie Spragan and Kieth Traylor to our D. I'd say our D has gotten much stronger then yours!!! And we had a good season on D last year, even though we couldn't stop the run fro too many injurys. We will be better on D this year and yours will take a step backwards. As for the really dumb statement that you really don't need to add better players to your D because you 2nd ranked D last year!!! WOW...I wish you were HC, but I guess I don't have to wish for it your brillant HC doesn't think the D needs to improve, good for us and sucks for you. You'll see.
Isn't it Kevin Vickerson? Matt Roth as a spot DT? He's a little to thin to be playing DT.

[feelthepain]

Right. Like the recent NFL power rankings. No doubt written by idiots. Fins 30th? :lmao:

Yeah, what a stretch to to rank everyone based on last years record!!
I'll bet NE and Philly are one and two huh?? Pittsburgh and Colts 3/4 or the other way around...oh, and 49ers last right??

[feelthepain]

Isn't it Kevin Vickerson? Matt Roth as a spot DT? He's a little to thin to be playing DT.
Yes, it is Vickerson and Roth is a big boy he's 2
" bigger then Zgoninabut 18lbs. lighter. However in Sabans D he is small for a T.

[wchutalkinboutwillis]

Why are Bills fans' criticizing other teams' starting QB's? :idunno:
Here's Losman's 2004 'stats':
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000
Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Todd Collins, and Akili Smith were 'supposed' to be good coming out of college too. :shocked:
You better 'worry' about your own team:nervous: I don't see them winning many games this season! :sorry:
http://www.billszone.com/2004/gfx/images/onload/evans1.pngWhy are there so many people cheering in
your endzone, Mr. Moron? It's because
SF fans are pathetically fair weather.
But you'll be great this year with Alex
Jones, or is it Smith, or is Rattay? Your
brass has done an excellent job of
handling that situation. 2-14. Now go hit
the "Pickle Smoocher" for Cosmopolitan.

[FlyingDutchman]

How bout.....Matt Roth DT/DE/LB in the 2nd, Channing Crowder MLB in the 3rd, and Travis Daniels CB in the 4th Kevin Vickers DT/DE in the 7th and supp.draft Manny Wright!!!Thats a whole lotta youth on the D!! But keep on believing Miamis D is getting old!! Just goes to show the lack of football knowledge from several bill posters here....isn't that right mystic???


BTW, Miami finished 8th overall in D and had the 2nd best secondary in the league. And that was a 4-12 team,finishing 8th in overall D and 2nd in pass D....in case you didn't get it the first time. Now we added 3 out of our first four draft picks and brought in players like Kevin Carter, Vonnie Holiday, Donnie Spragan and Kieth Traylor to our D. I'd say our D has gotten much stronger then yours!!! And we had a good season on D last year, even though we couldn't stop the run fro too many injurys. We will be better on D this year and yours will take a step backwards. As for the really dumb statement that you really don't need to add better players to your D because you 2nd ranked D last year!!! WOW...I wish you were HC, but I guess I don't have to wish for it your brillant HC doesn't think the D needs to improve, good for us and sucks for you. You'll see.
LOL!:lmao: This is the worst post ever....Those draft picks are so good, what will the Bills ever do?:scared: those free agents you added are old and past thier prime years...and the bills have had a top D consistantly over the past several years so dont even say the phins are better bc you just cant win that arguement....Do you actually watch your team play? Your secondary is in shambles this year....get ready for another dissapointing season, but no worries, you'll be able to get Lienhart next year with the # 1 overall

[Samphin1]

LOL!:lmao: This is the worst post ever....Those draft picks are so good, what will the Bills ever do?:scared: those free agents you added are old and past thier prime years...and the bills have had a top D consistantly over the past several years so dont even say the phins are better bc you just cant win that arguement....Do you actually watch your team play? Your secondary is in shambles this year....get ready for another dissapointing season, but no worries, you'll be able to get Lienhart next year with the # 1 overall

Past several years? :lol: Actually, I believe that your D has been good to great for three years tops. Before that, it was a walking breathing turd if I remember correctly. Meanwhile, Miami's unit has been in the top ten for quite awhile longer than that. I don't doubt that your team is good, but if you are gonna start mouthing off about how good your D has been throughout the years...you better make sure it isn't a lie.

Spragan is hitting his prime. You could argue that Carter is still in his prime. The seocndary is a concern but Madison and Daniels have been very good. In fact, Somehow, Reggie Howard even looked good in the last game. Yeremiah Bell and Tebuckey Jones have played well at the starting safety spots and Schulters is still there. Surprisingly, Traveres Tillman has played better than I expected him too. He is helping ease my concerns about our safety depth. Tony Bua is struggling and may lose his spot. He plays ecxellent special teams though so who knows.

[Samphin1]

You forgot Jim Druckenmiller? Or was it Drunkenmiller? LOL


I always liked Drunk On Miller myself. :goodpost:

[FlyingDutchman]

In these days of free agency, it is hard to keep units at the top level consistantly. I believe the Bills being in the top 4 over the the last 3 years constitutes the right to be considered one of the top ten defensive units in the NFL, if not THEE best (which I believe is still Balitimore). My arguement towards FTP is not to try to compare the two defenses. Miami does have a decent defense and will still be top 15 this year, but to say that Miami is on Buffalos level of defense is silly and a joke. So how am I lying? Buffalo led the league in take aways and points for a defense, while all the Miami defense did was lose games. Im glad youre convinced your secondary is doing better bc nobody else in the football world believes so.

....and several years doesnt have to mean a decade, why is that so funny?

[LtFinFan66]

If I am Miami I would rather hold out for Leinhart then take Rivers or Brees. Miami needs a fresh start.No way we could afford Leinhart. Not after Ronnie's contract. Not without dismantling the team. Then we would have a QB and RB and nothing else

[Bulldog]

How bout.....Matt Roth DT/DE/LB in the 2nd, Channing Crowder MLB in the 3rd, and Travis Daniels CB in the 4th Kevin Vickers DT/DE in the 7th and supp.draft Manny Wright!!!Thats a whole lotta youth on the D!! But keep on believing Miamis D is getting old!! Just goes to show the lack of football knowledge from several bill posters here....isn't that right mystic???


BTW, Miami finished 8th overall in D and had the 2nd best secondary in the league. And that was a 4-12 team,finishing 8th in overall D and 2nd in pass D....in case you didn't get it the first time. Now we added 3 out of our first four draft picks and brought in players like Kevin Carter, Vonnie Holiday, Donnie Spragan and Kieth Traylor to our D. I'd say our D has gotten much stronger then yours!!! And we had a good season on D last year, even though we couldn't stop the run fro too many injurys. We will be better on D this year and yours will take a step backwards. As for the really dumb statement that you really don't need to add better players to your D because you 2nd ranked D last year!!! WOW...I wish you were HC, but I guess I don't have to wish for it your brillant HC doesn't think the D needs to improve, good for us and sucks for you. You'll see.

And some how all those rookies are going to improve the Miami defense this year. Talk to me at the end of the year and we'll see how many of them actually made any kind of impact this season. And Manny Wright has a ways to go before he'll be able to be put into the rotation. That's if he remembers his shoulder pads and stops crying! :lmao:

Did you ever stop and think that Miami's secondary was ranked 2nd against the pass as a result of them not being able to stop the run? Of course not, it would actually require that you stop being a homer for five minuets of your pathetic life. And Miami's secondary got worse with the departure of Surtain to KC. Two words come to mind when I think of Miami's secondary: Swiss cheese. And the majority of the defensive lineman that Miami brought in are well past their prime with the exception of Traylor. And no, Buffalo didn't need to add that many players to the defense that was ranked #2 in the NFL last year. Why would they? Usually, when one of the units that make up a team is ranked in the top five, teams tend to focus on the other areas of the team that need to be addressed. Why would Buffalo draft heavy on defense when it's already their strongest unit. Are you sure you not a soccer fan FTP?

If Miami were smart, maybe they should have spent some of those draft picks on some offensive lineman that actually know how to block once in a while. That would be a good start. I love this gem from Fanball :

August 23, 2005 7:10 AM ET
Dolphins: Offensive line a mess
The News

Head coach Nick Saban is very unhappy with the way his offensive line has played so far in the preseason, and he made wholesale changes to the unit on Monday at practice. The Dolphins have moved Damion McIntosh back to left tackle, moved Vernon Carey from left to right tackle, and removed Stockar McDougle from the starting five. Of the changes, Saban told the Miami Herald, "We left five guys out there for two straight weeks, and that worked like it was the most counterproductive thing we ever did…You put your hand in the dirt, you got a guy sitting right there, you have to block him. You don't block him, what does it make any difference whether you are playing right guard, right tackle, left guard or left tackle? You have to move the guy. I think we are overrating anything that we have done, because we are totally missing the point."
Our View

Uh, sounds like things aren't going so well in Miami. With the removal of their one big offseason addition to the line, McDougle, the team is now fielding essentially the same offensive line it did last season. That unit was one of the worst in recent memory, so this can't be a good sign for the prospects of any of the Dolphins' starters, least of all rookie running back Ronnie Brown. There is still hope considering the line is under the tutelage of O-line maestro Hudson Houck, but unless Houck plans to suit up himself, he may not have enough talent to work with.
August 23, 2005 7:06 AM ET

:lmao:

[finsrclowns]

Yeah, what a stretch to to rank everyone based on last years record!!
I'll bet NE and Philly are one and two huh?? Pittsburgh and Colts 3/4 or the other way around...oh, and 49ers last right??

Not really. They have the Bills 5th. :funny:

[Ed]

I like how fin fans always mention their defense being ranked #2 against the pass, but conveniently forget that teams averaged 144 rushing ypg against them which was good for 2nd to last in the whole league. I'm sure the two are totally unrelated though.

[mysticsoto]

As usual you believe evrything you read, unless someone bashes your team ofcourse, then they are idiots who don't know anything about football. How terribly mature of you. I'm still here and will be, I'll enjoy the fact that the Bills will be avg. once again and lucky to split with any division rival. I also read that Miami's D is getting older as we speak....really, I guess yours never agaes huh?? I think we added much more and younger players to our D this year and all you did was lose a run stuffer and added nothing, zero,zip,notta ,nothing sorta like your personality!! No, check that....exactly like your personality.

Ahhh...you're back...now after the massacre that you suffered against Pittsburgh's scrubs - as you called them. Yet another terrible game by the Dolphins...oh, I can't wait for the season to start.

Do I believe everything I read? No, I also believe what I see...and I see Miami losing and playing horribly in every preseason game so far. If the Bills are average this year, then you are WAY below average. I think Miami will be in the bottom 5 of teams like last year. Your Oline is so bad, Saban had to shuffle everyone around and hope they play better this time. Tell him to join the Poker tournaments...you shuffle cards, not players!

It has been said, but I'll repeat it, we didn't have to add anyone to our D...it was #2 last year - and now, Terrance McGee and Jabari Greer have more starting experience than they did last year. Oh, and don't forget how high we were ranked in takeaways. By the way, don't conveniently forget we have the #1 Special Teams either.

I understand. When faced with all the stats that show how much better Buffalo is over the fins...you develop amnesia. Just another mental anguish for you to support among the many voices in your head...

[mysticsoto]

Not any worse than that first rounder you guys coughed up for Drew Bledsoe. Plus, you gave it to a fellow team within the AFC East. Smart move Buffalo.

As for conceding, I doubt it. I don't think any team concedes anything. If that was the case, Brees would be out of San Diego and Rivers would be starting. Brees hung tough, played hard and won.

While I don't doubt that Miami is looking for a longer term solution at QB ( please god not Tim Couch ), I don't think they would be stupid enough to "tank" a season by starting Gus for any number of reasons. Be it to get Leinart ( who BTW, is coming of a serious shoulder surgery ), Omar Jacobs or Drew Brees. Players at this level aren't geared like that and neither are the coaches.

Where did this label of fairwethered fin fans come from? Hell, the same can be said about Buffalo fans. Those fairwethered Bills fans are horrible...see? Simple as that. Just because you say it, doesn't make it true.
So I'm not sure what you are saying? You don't seem to think Gus should start....Leinart is atleast a year away...what is your long term QB solution?

BTW, how can Bills fans be fairweathered when we fill up a stadium in the middle of the winter with or without snow???

[mysticsoto]

Well, Channing Crowder who has been tearing it up in camp for one. Also, Travis Daniels, another rookie who seems to be playing pretty well. Might even start opening day. Donnie Spragan, another starting linebacker who has played remarkable well in a new scheme. Josh Shaw has played very well on on D-line and should get some time in the rotation this year. Matt Roth has shown great signs of imporvement over the last few weeks as well. In fact, he was playing and holding is own with the first unit against Pittsburgh and even got a sack and a few other pressures.

Buffalo was only second on yards allowed which is misleading. Miami was a top ten D last year too I believe, but that doesn't mean they were a dominant unit. While I feel Buffalo is a great defensive team LAST YEAR, that doesn't guarentee anything for this next year and year's to come. Besides, seeing how Clements wants to be payed like he is the best CB in the league after this year, you may have some problems moving forward.
And where did Buffalo rank in takeaways? The fact that we only lost 1 person is a good indication that our D is virtually intact. And personally, I think that Clements playing for a new contract has increased his motivation, play level and hunger. He has looked like a monster in preseason and will undoubtedly want to prove to other teams that he is worth pursuing and worth a huge new contract. I have no worries about his position at all and other teams should be weary and make sure they throw away from his direction!

[mysticsoto]

Why are Bills fans' criticizing other teams' starting QB's? :idunno:
Here's Losman's 2004 'stats':
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000
Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Todd Collins, and Akili Smith were 'supposed' to be good coming out of college too. :shocked:
You better 'worry' about your own team:nervous: I don't see them winning many games this season! :sorry:

This coming from a fan who's team is in shambles and hurting themselves at the QB position...please. You wish you could have JP over the crap you have over there. I'm so glad your team paid a fortune for Alex Smith who will now warm up the bench, not to mention Jonas "Broke a nail -out on IR" Jennings. This team will remain in shambles for years to come!!! The only team that actually will probably look worse than the Dolphins this year!

[mysticsoto]

Past several years? :lol: Actually, I believe that your D has been good to great for three years tops. Before that, it was a walking breathing turd if I remember correctly. Meanwhile, Miami's unit has been in the top ten for quite awhile longer than that. I don't doubt that your team is good, but if you are gonna start mouthing off about how good your D has been throughout the years...you better make sure it isn't a lie.

Spragan is hitting his prime. You could argue that Carter is still in his prime. The seocndary is a concern but Madison and Daniels have been very good. In fact, Somehow, Reggie Howard even looked good in the last game. Yeremiah Bell and Tebuckey Jones have played well at the starting safety spots and Schulters is still there. Surprisingly, Traveres Tillman has played better than I expected him too. He is helping ease my concerns about our safety depth. Tony Bua is struggling and may lose his spot. He plays ecxellent special teams though so who knows.
And before our D was "walking breathing turd" it was great also. Like anything, things go in cycles.

Carter is probably starting to go over his prime, but I like him - he's a good guy, so I won't bad mouth him. The Secondary is a big concern and the Safeties are still suspect.

But obviously it's your Offense that you need to worry about. The line is playing so bad, that it will cascade into every part of your offense unless you can take care of that. Ricky has looked okay in terms of speed, but he doesn't seem to have the power he used to and without an Oline to open holes, he may find it hard doing it all on his own like he did 2 years ago...

[mysticsoto]

No way we could afford Leinhart. Not after Ronnie's contract. Not without dismantling the team. Then we would have a QB and RB and nothing else
If Gus and Feeley don't pan out, you're going to need somebody. Even if you get Drew Brees, he probably won't come cheap. Depending on how Kurt Warner and Jake Plummer do, teams may be fighting to get Brees if he has another good year. Then what will Miami do? If you end up with low record and a high draft pick, you can try to trade down, but that didn't work this past year and there's no guarantee it'll work next year. So you're stuck picking a top player in the draft...might as well make it a QB followed (hopefully) by some linemen. Given that next year's draft is full of OTs I'd expect Miami to grab one in the 2nd round.

I don't envy Miami's position at all. If you end up with a low record/high draft pick, salary cap issues will begin to knaw at your team before you know it!

[justasportsfan]

Well, Channing Crowder who has been tearing it up in camp for one. Also, Travis Daniels, another rookie who seems to be playing pretty well. Might even start opening day. Donnie Spragan, another starting linebacker who has played remarkable well in a new scheme. Josh Shaw has played very well on on D-line and should get some time in the rotation this year. Matt Roth has shown great signs of imporvement over the last few weeks as well. In fact, he was playing and holding is own with the first unit against Pittsburgh and even got a sack and a few other pressures.

.O cmon Samphin. You can't be seriuosly bragging about rookies at camp. I'd expect that from FTP but not you.

They haven't proven squat against anyone in the NFL. When you think about it, it's not hard to look good against your O when your OL and qb's suck.

We have a very young Gates and Shaud who look better than any of your rb's including Brown or RW. Greer, Baker ,Wilson are looking great at camp too. We do not brag about them , do we?

Oh and yeah, JP is looking better than any of your qb's at camp and preseason. Should we put stock into that or do we just wait til season starts?:idunno:

If your rookies are all you have to look forward to than that doesn't say much about your team. Just like people like to talk about how we have a rookie qb, the same can be said about rookies around the league.

Unless they are something special like Ben or Jones , I doubt your rookies are gonna be making probowl anytime soon .

[NJFINSFAN1]

I like how fin fans always mention their defense being ranked #2 against the pass, but conveniently forget that teams averaged 144 rushing ypg against them which was good for 2nd to last in the whole league. I'm sure the two are totally unrelated though.
We had a great three quater defense, that always fell apart in the 4th, we were to undersized which is changing now, we are getting bigger which should help.

[Samphin1]

O cmon Samphin. You can't be seriuosly bragging about rookies at camp. I'd expect that from FTP but not you.

They haven't proven squat against anyone in the NFL. When you think about it, it's not hard to look good against your O when your OL and qb's suck.

We have a very young Gates and Shaud who look better than any of your rb's including Brown or RW. Greer, Baker ,Wilson are looking great at camp too. We do not brag about them , do we?

Oh and yeah, JP is looking better than any of your qb's at camp and preseason. Should we put stock into that or do we just wait til season starts?:idunno:

If your rookies are all you have to look forward to than that doesn't say much about your team. Just like people like to talk about how we have a rookie qb, the same can be said about rookies around the league.

Unless they are something special like Ben or Jones , I doubt your rookies are gonna be making probowl anytime soon .

I didn't say our rookie were all we had to look forward too. In case you forgot, we still have Chambers, Ricky, JT, Seau, Thomas, Madison, Booker and a host of other things to be positive about. The poster asked us fin fans to come up with some "young" guys on defense that we have because he bleieves our defense is so old. I merely gave him a list. I forgot to mention Yeremiah Bell as well, he has looked great.

By the way, most of the fairwether Bills fans have been gushing over Losman left and right so your argument doesn't hold water. Yes, I think you can talk about how good, or bad, someone looks in camp, that is why they have cuts and competetions and things like that...because they are analyzing the position.

The fact remains that Crowder and Daniels have been uber impresive FOR ROOKIES during game situations. There is no denying that. So yes, I am going to look forward to the rookies.

Using your logic, Willis has never started for a whole season. Should you not look forward to what he can do or should you wait and see how it plays out. In the end, we all have to see how it plays out, but for right now, I think fin fans have a reasonto be excited about the rooks on D.

[Samphin1]

And where did Buffalo rank in takeaways? The fact that we only lost 1 person is a good indication that our D is virtually intact. And personally, I think that Clements playing for a new contract has increased his motivation, play level and hunger. He has looked like a monster in preseason and will undoubtedly want to prove to other teams that he is worth pursuing and worth a huge new contract. I have no worries about his position at all and other teams should be weary and make sure they throw away from his direction!

I never said Clements wasn't good. In fact, I never said he would be distracted this year either. What I meant was, he IS going to go out and play as hard as he can to get top dollar. The Bills will have to make a choice of whether or not to spend a boatload on a player who thinks he is better than he is, or to let him walk and have a talented player leave. I think Clements is good, I don't think he is the best in the league, like he does. What I meant is that come next offseason, Buffalo is going to have to make some decisions and it might be losing a key to your defense.

[Samphin1]

So I'm not sure what you are saying? You don't seem to think Gus should start....Leinart is atleast a year away...what is your long term QB solution?

BTW, how can Bills fans be fairweathered when we fill up a stadium in the middle of the winter with or without snow???

I never said Gus shouldn't start did I? I said, that Miami is still looking for a LONG TERM QB. Obviously, most would be able to deduce that in the short term, they have the best answer they feel they could find. :lmao:

Leinart was good last year, however, I am very cautious of him. He has offseason shoulder surgery and lost his offensive coordinator. If he comes out and does his act again, he will silence me, if not, I owuld pass on him and take a har dlong look at Omar Jacobs. :bf1:

How can Miami fans be looked at as fairwethered fans when they are constantly in the top five in merchandise sales? See, these stats really don't mean much. Personally, every franchise has fairweather fans. I just find it funny that you call the posters, here, who obviously follow Miami to the depths of hell ( i.e. this board j/k...sort of ) fairweather. It is something you guys just spout off to try and annoy us. So, two can play at that game. You fairweathered Bills fans are all alike. :D:

[justasportsfan]

I didn't say our rookie were all we had to look forward too. In case you forgot, we still have Chambers, Ricky, JT, Seau, Thomas, Madison, Booker and a host of other things to be positive about. The poster asked us fin fans to come up with some "young" guys on defense that we have because he bleieves our defense is so old. I merely gave him a list. I forgot to mention Yeremiah Bell as well, he has looked great.

By the way, most of the fairwether Bills fans have been gushing over Losman left and right so your argument doesn't hold water. Yes, I think you can talk about how good, or bad, someone looks in camp, that is why they have cuts and competetions and things like that...because they are analyzing the position.

The fact remains that Crowder and Daniels have been uber impresive FOR ROOKIES during game situations. There is no denying that. So yes, I am going to look forward to the rookies.



Using your logic, Willis has never started for a whole season. Should you not look forward to what he can do or should you wait and see how it plays out. In the end, we all have to see how it plays out, but for right now, I think fin fans have a reasonto be excited about the rooks on D.they are rookies. Our young players are not all rookies. Guys like Greer would be a starter on your team.
As for Losman, I hardly see anyone gushing for him. We'd like to see some aspects of his game improve but so far he's better than anything you have. There's also plan B, Holcomb who again is looking better than anything you have.

Willis is not a rookie. We've already seen what he can do. How can we not look forward to seeing hm play 100%.


My point is, it's not hard to look good against your O. I won't take anything away from your young players because Crowder looked great against Pitts, but let's wait and see what he can do when teams play full force in regular season.

[mysticsoto]

I never said Gus shouldn't start did I? I said, that Miami is still looking for a LONG TERM QB. Obviously, most would be able to deduce that in the short term, they have the best answer they feel they could find. :lmao:

Leinart was good last year, however, I am very cautious of him. He has offseason shoulder surgery and lost his offensive coordinator. If he comes out and does his act again, he will silence me, if not, I owuld pass on him and take a har dlong look at Omar Jacobs. :bf1:

How can Miami fans be looked at as fairwethered fans when they are constantly in the top five in merchandise sales? See, these stats really don't mean much. Personally, every franchise has fairweather fans. I just find it funny that you call the posters, here, who obviously follow Miami to the depths of hell ( i.e. this board j/k...sort of ) fairweather. It is something you guys just spout off to try and annoy us. So, two can play at that game. You fairweathered Bills fans are all alike. :D:
So you're saying your plan of action on how you think Miami's FO should proceed is to stick it out with Gus this year and draft a QB (Leinhart or Jacobs) next year in the 1st round...what about what LTfinfan said - about the salary cap issues in drafting a QB high next year?

As to fairweather fans, I was referring to Miami fans in general and not the ones here. I understand that for a Miami fan to be in a Bills site probably means they are STRONG Miami fans. But the fact remains that Miami is not known for a strong base. Season ticket sales have always been low in Miami and there are frequently seats open - not to mention people leaving immediately if a few drops of rain fall (this coming from other fin fans in Miami).

In Buffalo, season ticket sales have increased in the last 2 years from 34000 to 43000 or something like that. It might even be more now. That's more than half the stadium already sold out!!!

[Samphin1]

So you're saying your plan of action on how you think Miami's FO should proceed is to stick it out with Gus this year and draft a QB (Leinhart or Jacobs) next year in the 1st round...what about what LTfinfan said - about the salary cap issues in drafting a QB high next year?

As to fairweather fans, I was referring to Miami fans in general and not the ones here. I understand that for a Miami fan to be in a Bills site probably means they are STRONG Miami fans. But the fact remains that Miami is not known for a strong base. Season ticket sales have always been low in Miami and there are frequently seats open - not to mention people leaving immediately if a few drops of rain fall (this coming from other fin fans in Miami).

In Buffalo, season ticket sales have increased in the last 2 years from 34000 to 43000 or something like that. It might even be more now. That's more than half the stadium already sold out!!!


The salary cap won't be an issue for a first ruond pick in my opinion. There is a rookie cap and most teams ( Miami included ) have figured out the cap. If Miami did so bad this year that they were in a position to draft Leinart or Jacobs ( who I think will go high ) AND it was the position of need the most, I would say draft them salary cap be damned. You can't really let that stop you from drafting a player, although signability is an issue ( ask Chicago ), it shouldn't be the determining one unless a player comes out and flat out refuses to play for you ( Manning, Elway etc. ). Personally, I have been impressed with Vernon Carey's development and wouldn't mind draftin D'Brickshaw Ferguson or Eric Winston to play LT next year and moving Carey permanently to the RT spot. Along with Hadnot and James, that would give us four young talented guys along the line and much improved over last year's edition. I wouldn't be surprised to seeMiami try to grab Rivers or Brees from San Diego ( depending on Brees' play this year ) and try to upgrade the line or safety play during the draft.

As for the few drops of rain, can you blame them in Miami? This tropical storm Katrina was supposed to be mild yet is is destroying freeways and killing people. Drops of rain in Miami means you get the hell out of dodge if you ask me. Personally, I think the reason you Bills fans stay in your seats is because you are frozen to them. Can't leave if you butt is stuck to the seat now can you? :lmao: Season ticket sales usually spike when a team is showing improvement or has just fired a coach. Funny, your team fits both of those molds. You could make an argument that the increase in season tickets sales coinciding with a new coaching staff and improved record = fairweathered fans. Remember fairweathered fans means they follow the team basically when they are good. Sounds like that is what is going on in Buffalo. :crazed:

[FlyingDutchman]

The salary cap won't be an issue for a first ruond pick in my opinion. There is a rookie cap and most teams ( Miami included ) have figured out the cap. If Miami did so bad this year that they were in a position to draft Leinart or Jacobs ( who I think will go high ) AND it was the position of need the most, I would say draft them salary cap be damned. You can't really let that stop you from drafting a player, although signability is an issue ( ask Chicago ), it shouldn't be the determining one unless a player comes out and flat out refuses to play for you ( Manning, Elway etc. ). Personally, I have been impressed with Vernon Carey's development and wouldn't mind draftin D'Brickshaw Ferguson or Eric Winston to play LT next year and moving Carey permanently to the RT spot. Along with Hadnot and James, that would give us four young talented guys along the line and much improved over last year's edition. I wouldn't be surprised to seeMiami try to grab Rivers or Brees from San Diego ( depending on Brees' play this year ) and try to upgrade the line or safety play during the draft.

As for the few drops of rain, can you blame them in Miami? This tropical storm Katrina was supposed to be mild yet is is destroying freeways and killing people. Drops of rain in Miami means you get the hell out of dodge if you ask me. Personally, I think the reason you Bills fans stay in your seats is because you are frozen to them. Can't leave if you butt is stuck to the seat now can you? :lmao: Season ticket sales usually spike when a team is showing improvement or has just fired a coach. Funny, your team fits both of those molds. You could make an argument that the increase in season tickets sales coinciding with a new coaching staff and improved record = fairweathered fans. Remember fairweathered fans means they follow the team basically when they are good. Sounds like that is what is going on in Buffalo. :crazed:
Wow...being a dolphin fan, you have no right to talk about any other fans in the NFL. I would go as far to say that Arizona Cardinal fans are better. The dolphins have a pretty decent history as being a good football team, but the worst fans in the NFL. I have never seen so many empty seats during the regular season as I do when watching a Miami game. Even when you guys are having a decent year, nobody goes. Buffalo however is usually in the top 10 for attendence year after year despite their record at the time. I was in sleet and hail watching the bills play the cardinals when the bills had 1 win last year along with at least 65 thousand other fans who were there for no other reason except for their love of the buffalo bills. Miami fans would leave the game with a little tropical mist coming down. Dont ever compare the devotion of Bills fans with Dolphin fans, you just cant win.

[Samphin1]

Wow...being a dolphin fan, you have no right to talk about any other fans in the NFL. I would go as far to say that Arizona Cardinal fans are better. The dolphins have a pretty decent history as being a good football team, but the worst fans in the NFL. I have never seen so many empty seats during the regular season as I do when watching a Miami game. Even when you guys are having a decent year, nobody goes. Buffalo however is usually in the top 10 for attendence year after year despite their record at the time. I was in sleet and hail watching the bills play the cardinals when the bills had 1 win last year along with at least 65 thousand other fans who were there for no other reason except for their love of the buffalo bills. Miami fans would leave the game with a little tropical mist coming down. Dont ever compare the devotion of Bills fans with Dolphin fans, you just cant win.

Bills fan? The most hypocritical group around. They say they are so loyal but as soon as Bledsoe threw a pick you guys were ready to bag him. Rob Johnson? Oh he will be the successor to Kelly! Has a few injuries and you are ready to string him up. Same with Henry and anyone else who ends up escaping Buffalo.

As for Miami fans. I have been to plenty of road games in San Fran in Oakland where roughly half the stadium is wearing the Dolphins colors. I have yet to see that anywhere for Buffalo besides the RALPH. :bf1: Don't ever compare the loyalty of Bills fans to that of Miami Dolphins fans. You just can't win. See? I can talk tough too! :lmao:

The simple fact remains that this is a stupid argument people use to try to irk other people. Questioning their loyalty usually gets a rise out of them. Case in point? You. I wrote back thinking someone would fly off the handle and you did so with vigor as well I might add. Bottom line? Everyone who is a fan of a team generally remains a fan of said teams regardless of circumstances. Just because one group of people have absolutely nothing better to do but freeze their arse off and watch a football game, doesn't mean they are any more loyal than the fan who can't afford a ticket but drive out of his way to get to a destination ( i.e. bar, friends house etc. ) to watch his favorite team. Hell, I am on the wrong coast yet I still see every fins game. Am I a horrible fan because I don't fly to Miami to watch the games live? I don't think so. Just as I really don't think you guys are horrible fans of the Bills. People with bad judgement and lack of social skills? Yes. Horrible fans? Not really. :D:

Lighten up McNasty, this is football, it is all in good fun. Nothing to get your Willis panties in a bunch over. :brush:

[Bulldog]

Bills fan? The most hypocritical group around. They say they are so loyal but as soon as Bledsoe threw a pick you guys were ready to bag him. Rob Johnson? Oh he will be the successor to Kelly! Has a few injuries and you are ready to string him up. Same with Henry and anyone else who ends up escaping Buffalo.

As for Miami fans. I have been to plenty of road games in San Fran in Oakland where roughly half the stadium is wearing the Dolphins colors. I have yet to see that anywhere for Buffalo besides the RALPH. :bf1: Don't ever compare the loyalty of Bills fans to that of Miami Dolphins fans. You just can't win. See? I can talk tough too! :lmao:

The simple fact remains that this is a stupid argument people use to try to irk other people. Questioning their loyalty usually gets a rise out of them. Case in point? You. I wrote back thinking someone would fly off the handle and you did so with vigor as well I might add. Bottom line? Everyone who is a fan of a team generally remains a fan of said teams regardless of circumstances. Just because one group of people have absolutely nothing better to do but freeze their arse off and watch a football game, doesn't mean they are any more loyal than the fan who can't afford a ticket but drive out of his way to get to a destination ( i.e. bar, friends house etc. ) to watch his favorite team. Hell, I am on the wrong coast yet I still see every fins game. Am I a horrible fan because I don't fly to Miami to watch the games live? I don't think so. Just as I really don't think you guys are horrible fans of the Bills. People with bad judgement and lack of social skills? Yes. Horrible fans? Not really. :D:

Lighten up McNasty, this is football, it is all in good fun. Nothing to get your Willis panties in a bunch over. :brush:

Hell, Miami can't even sell out a playoff game. Great fans they are!