Losman loses vs. 2 of the best, Holcomb wins vs 2 of the worst

[X-Era]

If you remember, myself and others said we shouldnt be too quick to bash our team after we lost to TB and ATL. We said that it could turn out that these 2 teams were 2 of the best in the league.

At this point, I have to change my stance. It wasnt that we were terrible but rather that both ATL and TB are so damn good.

Everything is a matter of perspective after all. One Bills fan may see us stink up the joint agianst TB, but a Bucs fan may see his team is a SB team.

The question is this, does the success of TB and ATL change your mind about Losman at all? The followup is: Is Holcomb that good or are the Fins and NYJ that bad?

And if you follow that thought path, is Holcomb that much better than Losman? Or to be more specific, is Losman vs. Houston the same as Holcomb vs. Fins and Jets? Will we see Holcomb stink up he joint against a top notch team?

I have not changed my opinion that Holcomb should start as long as we win. So there is no need to bash this as a pro JP thread. Thats not the case. What it is, is a new perspective to think about. Was JP that bad or was the competition that good? Is Holcomb that good or is the competition that bad? Are JP and Holcomb interchangeable?

[LtBillsFan66]

JP was the worst ranked passer in the NFL.

[Tinboy]

Combination of both I think. It's tough for a young QB to go out and play vs two very goods teams. TB are looking very good and their D# is once again a top D. As for Falcons I think it wasn't all JP fault, bad coaching and veteran players not giving 100% are others factors for losing those games.

I think Jp would have won againts Jets and probably lost a tight game against the fins. If we are playoff ready for the last game I would like to see JP play againts Jets. On the other hand that means that Holcomb would go uninjured during the whole season.

[MikeInRoch]

Please explain the New Orleans game then.

[Meathead]

we will issue no :stfu: before its time.

















it's time.

[BAM]

Those horrible Jets beat that awesome Tampa Bay team, which destroyed us. Your argument holds no weight. It doesn't matter anymore. Week to week.

[Mitchy moo]

Those horrible Jets beat that awesome Tampa Bay team, which destroyed us. Your argument holds no weight. It doesn't matter anymore. Week to week.

Exactly my thinking, except I think JP needs to ride pine until next year.

[OpIv37]

I have not changed my opinion that Holcomb should start as long as we win. So there is no need to bash this as a pro JP thread. Thats not the case. What it is, is a new perspective to think about. Was JP that bad or was the competition that good? Is Holcomb that good or is the competition that bad? Are JP and Holcomb interchangeable?

At this point I don't think they're interchangeable- Holcomb is just more suited to play in the NFL at the moment. He made some reads and some plays that JP wasn't making. Don't forget that Losman missed a lot of wide open receivers- the quality of the opponent doesn't matter in these instances.

[fabolouspaul]

Please explain the New Orleans game then.

7 points against the New Orleans Defense!!!! Green Bay puts up 50 the next week.

[colin]

If you remember, myself and others said we shouldnt be too quick to bash our team after we lost to TB and ATL. We said that it could turn out that these 2 teams were 2 of the best in the league.

At this point, I have to change my stance. It wasnt that we were terrible but rather that both ATL and TB are so damn good.

Everything is a matter of perspective after all. One Bills fan may see us stink up the joint agianst TB, but a Bucs fan may see his team is a SB team.

The question is this, does the success of TB and ATL change your mind about Losman at all? The followup is: Is Holcomb that good or are the Fins and NYJ that bad?

And if you follow that thought path, is Holcomb that much better than Losman? Or to be more specific, is Losman vs. Houston the same as Holcomb vs. Fins and Jets? Will we see Holcomb stink up he joint against a top notch team?

I have not changed my opinion that Holcomb should start as long as we win. So there is no need to bash this as a pro JP thread. Thats not the case. What it is, is a new perspective to think about. Was JP that bad or was the competition that good? Is Holcomb that good or is the competition that bad? Are JP and Holcomb interchangeable?

are you pregnant with JP's baby?

you have been talking trash about moulds, now you are reaching like mr fantastic for excuses for JP.

JP played worse than todd collins or brooks bollinger. tamp might have beaten us no matter what on that road game, but JP still put up a terrible performance.

against soft soft Ds at home against ATL and on the road against NO, JP losman couldn't connect with open WRs all day, inspite of a dominating running game.

blaming losses and wins on a QB solely is a thing fans do way too much, but you can evaluate an individual performance, particularly in the extremes.

JP losman was at the bottom end of QB performances and has shown zero improvement.

we are also scoring TDs passing and running against good Ds now, although our true tests will come on the road.

[LtBillsFan66]

Are you JP's agent?

[mysticsoto]

Those horrible Jets beat that awesome Tampa Bay team, which destroyed us. Your argument holds no weight. It doesn't matter anymore. Week to week.

Well let's be fair and say that the Jets didn't have to play Cadillac who is a great back, and also didn't have to play in a sweltering, high humidity heat.

[BAM]

Ok then. How about those horrible Dolphins beating up on those awesome Broncos, who just beat up on those awesome Patriots, whom according to a lot of people here, we don't have a chance against.

Some of you folks are amusing.

You can make all the excuses you want. The fact is, JP is riding the pine until Holcomb falters and begins consistently losing like his backup was doing.

[fabolouspaul]

Ok then. How about those horrible Dolphins beating up on those awesome Broncos, who just beat up on those awesome Patriots, whom according to a lot of people here, we don't have a chance against.

Some of you folks are amusing.

You can make all the excuses you want. The fact is, JP is riding the pine until Holcomb falters and begins consistently losing like his backup was doing.

:goodpost:

[OpIv37]

Ok then. How about those horrible Dolphins beating up on those awesome Broncos, who just beat up on those awesome Patriots, whom according to a lot of people here, we don't have a chance against.

Some of you folks are amusing.

You can make all the excuses you want. The fact is, JP is riding the pine until Holcomb falters and begins consistently losing like his backup was doing.


Agreed- Holcomb has to be the starter at least until after the bye, and I have a feeling it will be longer than that. If Holcomb blows both the Oak game and the NE game, maybe Losman will be back by the KC game. But even that seems unlikely since no one expects us to beat NE in their house at night, so at most Holcomb has one game to blow before the bye.

[TacklingDummy]

How about this. If Kelly Holcomb was named the starter before the season started would the Bills have beaten Atlanta, TB or NO?

This is a good football team. It has some holes but every team in the NFL does. If Holcomb was named the starter after beating JP out this pre-season the Bills could possibly be 6-0 or 5-1 right now. That would look a hell of alot better then the 1-3 hole JP Losman put the Bills in.

[BAM]

I really doubt we'd be undefeated right now, but I could logically see us being at least 4-2 by beating New Orleans, and possibly 5-1 if we take down Atlanta.

I still don't think we'd have beaten the Bucs in their house.

[justasportsfan]

forget individual stats when comparing JP to KH. How about looking how the rest of the players respond when either qb is playing. Remember, rob had better passing nos. than Flutie but Flutie got the team playing for him which resulted in wins.

W/ JP, Reed was the only wr we had. W/ Holcomb we have 7 players catching his passes last Sunday. That's how Brady won sb's. Spreading the ball whether he was throwing to rookies or vets.

[sba]

Please make a new thread about Losman everyday.

Thanks,

- everyone here.

[pintonick96]

We really gotta stop about this. Holcomb is the starter, not until he loses, but until he screws up. Then we'll put in JP. This looks like the Browns a few years ago when they fliop flopped Tim Couch and Holcomb. Atleast they made the playoffs.

[Mudflap1]

Possible excuses for J.P. Losman by jp-era tomorrow:

1. J.P.'s helmet is too tight. He couldn't think straight. They gave Holcomb a better helmet.

2. Holcomb paid off of the coaches.

3. If you let J.P. Losman play exactly 7.5 games in a row, he's magically going to turn from a frog of a quarterback (55.4 QB rating) into the love child of Jim Kelly, Carson Palmer, and Peyton Manning, but mobile.

4. Mama didn't want J.P. to play anymore.

5. Tom Donahoe screwed this team again by bringing in a good veteran quarterback that could make plays if Losman struggled, even with an offensive line that hasn't properly gelled together yet. Fire him!

Discuss.

[X-Era]

I cant, there is no excuse. I wouldnt even try.

[feelthepain]

Losman loses vs. 2 of the best, Holcomb wins vs 2 of the worst


I hate to break up your theory, but Maim was a top four D when we played the Bills and a top 15 O with a 2-1 record, after the Bucs game we are still 6th overall on D and top 15 on O, we are losing games over our mistakes not because the teams we play are better. The Bills haven't won a game on the road this year and only have wins at home...just like the fins your theory is stupid.

[camelcowboy]

Bills were in the game all game with the bucks. Thats despite JP, and carnell williams actually playing. Fins got blown out, with backup QB, and Michael Pittman as running back. Fins just aren't as good as you think. Your chokers, 0-2 in the division. Including losing to the bills.

[Mr. Cynical]

If you remember, myself and others said we shouldnt be too quick to bash our team after we lost to TB and ATL. We said that it could turn out that these 2 teams were 2 of the best in the league.

At this point, I have to change my stance. It wasnt that we were terrible but rather that both ATL and TB are so damn good.

Everything is a matter of perspective after all. One Bills fan may see us stink up the joint agianst TB, but a Bucs fan may see his team is a SB team.

The question is this, does the success of TB and ATL change your mind about Losman at all? The followup is: Is Holcomb that good or are the Fins and NYJ that bad?

And if you follow that thought path, is Holcomb that much better than Losman? Or to be more specific, is Losman vs. Houston the same as Holcomb vs. Fins and Jets? Will we see Holcomb stink up he joint against a top notch team?

I have not changed my opinion that Holcomb should start as long as we win. So there is no need to bash this as a pro JP thread. Thats not the case. What it is, is a new perspective to think about. Was JP that bad or was the competition that good? Is Holcomb that good or is the competition that bad? Are JP and Holcomb interchangeable?

Don't confuse the Holcombites with logic. It makes them get all flustered. :rage:

Funny thing is those same people were defending Drew saying it is a team sport. Hopefully the irony isn't wasted on all of them.

[justasportsfan]

we are losing games over our mistakes not because the teams we play are better. .yeah right. The broncos shot themselves on the foot too when they played the fins.

Excuses excuses. The bills overcame their penalties against the jets last Sunday. Fins couldn't do it because the team sucked that day. We were a better team than the fins that day and penalties count as part of being good or bad.

Your excuses are as stupid as your team was against the bucs back-ups last Sunday.

[Mr. Cynical]

5. Tom Donahoe screwed this team again by bringing in a good veteran quarterback that could make plays if Losman struggled, even with an offensive line that hasn't properly gelled together yet. Fire him

Remind me again how that plan worked out here with Drew?

[X-Era]

Possible excuses for J.P. Losman by jp-era tomorrow:

1. J.P.'s helmet is too tight. He couldn't think straight. They gave Holcomb a better helmet.

2. Holcomb paid off of the coaches.

3. If you let J.P. Losman play exactly 7.5 games in a row, he's magically going to turn from a frog of a quarterback (55.4 QB rating) into the love child of Jim Kelly, Carson Palmer, and Peyton Manning, but mobile.

4. Mama didn't want J.P. to play anymore.

5. Tom Donahoe screwed this team again by bringing in a good veteran quarterback that could make plays if Losman struggled, even with an offensive line that hasn't properly gelled together yet. Fire him!

Discuss.

someones got a stuck key that keeps searching for members posts.

Your right, why discuss the QB on this team? Its such an unimportant position. :penalty:

[SquishDaFish]

Get over it you friggen LOSER

[Uncle Jesse]

7 points against the New Orleans Defense!!!! Green Bay puts up 50 the next week.

Ding ding ding!!!

[Mudflap1]

"Remind me again how that plan worked out here with Drew?"
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Don't worry, Donahoe must go. I was being a little sarcastic.
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"someones got a stuck key that keeps searching for members posts.
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Your right, why discuss the QB on this team? Its such an unimportant position. :penalty:"
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Dude, you are totally in Pluto with this stuff recently. It's VERY simple. Losman was given the keys to the castle. He didn't play well. Is it all his fault? No, he was put in a precarious situation by the coaches and GM. People wanted a change. Holcomb has come in and won two straight. Great! Winning games is the point, remember?
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Is this team a playoff team? We'll see, but frankly, probably not. There are two roads to go down. 1. Holcomb is the human rally-cap and the Bills go to the playoffs, ala Flutie '98. 2. Holcomb does ok, but this team isn't that good, and we basically get bowled over during our very-tough next nine games. Losman is inserted back in there as the starter sooner than later, and has the rest of the season to learn, while the team finishes 6-10 or worse.
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We won two games in a row against division opponents, and for that reason, Holcomb deserves the chance to continue to play. The next three games are critical. One game at a time. We MUST beat the Raiders on the road. The Bills traditionally have not been a great California road team. New England away on Sunday night is a tough situation, really tough. Kansas City at home is very tough as well. If this team is 5-4 or 6-3 after these next three, Holcomb deserves to see what he can do. If the Bills are 3-6 or 4-5, Losman should be put back in.
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It's not hard. But stop making excuses about why J.P. is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and why Kelly Holcomb sucks. Holcomb has been around for 10 years. He's not bad. Efficient, but not spectacular. He makes good reads most of the time, and is fairly accurate. He makes mistakes, like everyone else does. Losman has been horrid so far. HORRID. He may turn the corner, he may not, we don't know. He will get his chance again eventually. He needs to continue to learn, perservere, plug away. This is the NFL, there is no room for excuses. These guys are paid MILLIONS of dollars a year to be good at what they do, and are given (supposedly) the best coaching, players, and opportunities to succeed. Losman has a great chance to learn by watching Holcomb run the same offense in game situations, and win.
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J.P. will get his chance, you just need to have patience.

[mysticsoto]

yeah right. The broncos shot themselves on the foot too when they played the fins.

Excuses excuses. The bills overcame their penalties against the jets last Sunday. Fins couldn't do it because the team sucked that day. We were a better team than the fins that day and penalties count as part of being good or bad.

Your excuses are as stupid as your team was against the bucs back-ups last Sunday.

Didn't FTP state that Saban was going to have his team disciplined this year??? We're going to the 7th week - when are they going to be disciplined?

It'd be nice if he just admitted the truth...the fins were scared of the Bills, and when you have fear in your heart - discipline is thrown out the window!

[justasportsfan]

Didn't FTP state that Saban was going to have his team disciplined this year??? !amomg other things. He said the fins had a better qb, wr, rb, cb, etc. etc. The only thing they have that's definitely better are their cheerleaders.

[finsrclowns]

So there is no need to bash this as a pro JP thread.

Do you have another kind?:please:

[X-Era]

Do you have another kind?:please:

Sure they ALL are pro Bills SB victory threads. Personally, I dont give a rats a_s who starts at QB as long as that happens.

[Mudflap1]

I think we are all on the same page with that.

[X-Era]

I think we are all on the same page with that.

I really hope so.

My thrust is only to be willing to second guess what seems to be smart moves by this staff. I understand it may seem silly when we have 2 wins in a row. But I feel we have been here before. Im not sure these arent false hopes.

My heart is in the right place and I am enjoying the wins. I just dont want to see it all come crashing down, and I think I see signs of cracking in the foundation.

No need to be a negative nancy, but theres also no need to wear rose colored glasses.

Im gonna feel real good when we win the AFC East and are guaranteed a spot in the playoffs. If that happens, You wont hear any worry from me. But as for right now, I do have some worries still. Love the wins, but I still am worried. I also feel Im not alone.

[X-Era]

Do you have another kind?:please:

Furthermore, just as theres plenty of reason to question Losman as our SB QB, theres also plenty of reasons to question Holcomb.

If it all works out, I will be plenty happy. But I still today and not convinced it was the right move. Im not alone.

I can respect your right to disagree and Im not gonna be pestering everyone with the QB issue.

The thrust of this wasnt about who should be our starter per say, it was only to ask if the ATL and TB success changes our view of Losman. Thats it.

And yes, the flip question is just as valid, what would Holcomb have done a TB and against ATL.

[Mr. Cynical]

"Remind me again how that plan worked out here with Drew?"

Don't worry, Donahoe must go. I was being a little sarcastic.

:whew:

I thought you may have taken a gulp of the Kool-Aid for a minute there. :;

[feelthepain]

amomg other things. He said the fins had a better qb, wr, rb, cb, etc. etc. The only thing they have that's definitely better are their cheerleaders.


Amazing, two weeks ago you were calling it a season. Now you think your S*** don't stink again....long season ahaed, I'm looking forward to the Bills rough road ahead.

[STAMPY]

the Jets and Dolphins have great DEFENSES btw

[Mudflap1]

No Kool-Aid for me Cynical. I want Donahoe outta here either way.

[X-Era]

Amazing, two weeks ago you were calling it a season. Now you think your S*** don't stink again....long season ahaed, I'm looking forward to the Bills rough road ahead.

Unfortunately, I agree with your post here. Many did cash in the season and now think we cant be beat.

Im not one of them, I cashed in the season and dont fully believe yet that we are really going to the playoffs. Regardless, Bills fans are Bills fans and ALL of us enjoyed stomping the sh_t out of the slimeball fins!

Enjoy YOUR season big mouth. Fo it was YOU how ran off at the mouth about how great your team was, its pretty damn laughable now when we are tied for the division lead and your sh_tty squad is in the cellar.

The only thing better than that win, will be when we squich your slimy as_es all over the field down in Miami. BTW, thank your city for giving us Willis. And we can thank Tibet for giving you back Ricky!