It's ALL Ralph's Fault!!

[mchurchfie]

He should have tried to get along with Bill Polian instead of ****canning him.:crap:

[The_Philster]

When did it come out that it was Ralph that Polian didn't get along with..considering for years it's been said that it was Ralph's chief financial guy that Polian disagreed with?

[mchurchfie]

When did it come out that it was Ralph that Polian didn't get along with..considering for years it's been said that it was Ralph's chief financial guy that Polian disagreed with?
Who stayed and who got sent packing?? It was common knowledge that there was friction between Wilson and Polian. In any case, The final decision came down to Ralph and he made the wrong choice.:down: Polian is 7-0 right now.

[McGahee420]

THe rumor that I have been told for years was that Polian called Mr Wilsons daughter a C#$t. Polian hated his daughter and that is what I was told the reason for his departure.

[TacklingDummy]

I wish Butler never left. RIP

[Michael82]

I wish Butler never left. RIP
oh yeah, because that piece of **** was soo good at keeping us under the cap. He bailed right when the Bills were ready to go to cap hell. I blame him for that. :mad:

[mchurchfie]

oh yeah, because that piece of **** was soo good at keeping us under the cap. He bailed right when the Bills were ready to go to cap hell. I blame him for that. :mad:You forgot to say RIP.:couch:

[mchurchfie]

THe rumor that I have been told for years was that Polian called Mr Wilsons daughter a C#$t. Polian hated his daughter and that is what I was told the reason for his departure.Most women are, what was the big deal?:couch:

[Novacane]

oh yeah, because that piece of **** was soo good at keeping us under the cap. He bailed right when the Bills were ready to go to cap hell. I blame him for that. :mad:



he got us in cap hell true, but I betif given the chance to rebuild like TD did he would have gotten us back to being a winner by now (if he had stayed and not died)

[Michael82]

he got us in cap hell true, but I betif given the chance to rebuild like TD did he would have gotten us back to being a winner by now (if he had stayed and not died)
Did you see what he was already starting to do in San Diego before he passed away? He was already bringing them to cap hell. AJ Smith is the one who brought them out of it and made the Chargers what it is now.

[jamze132]

At this point, cap hell is better than Donahoe.

[Michael82]

At this point, cap hell is better than Donahoe.
Cap Hell led to Donahoe.

If only we kept AJ Smith and promoted him. That might have been better. :sigh:

[mchurchfie]

Cap Hell led to Donahoe.
If only we kept AJ Smith and promoted him. That might have been better. :sigh:
A.J. is looking pretty good right now. As far as Butler, he may not have been the best with playing the numbers game under the cap but he knew how to draft talent and get some gems in the rough. Donahoe's drafting resume is looking pretty repulsive right now.:puke:

[Michael82]

A.J. is looking pretty good right now. As far as Butler, he may not have been the best with playing the numbers game under the cap but he knew how to draft talent and get some gems in the rough. Donahoe's drafting resume is looking pretty repulsive right now.:puke:
Do I need to remind you of the 2000 draft? :ill:

Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 26 26 DE Erik Flowers Arizona State
2 27 58 S Travares Tillman Georgia Tech
3 27 89 OLB Corey Moore Virginia Tech
4 27 121 WR Avion Black Tennessee St.
5 27 156 RB Sammy Morris Texas Tech
6 28 194 DT Leif Larsen UTEP
7 27 233 WR Drew Haddad Buffalo
7 45 251 LB DaShon Polk Arizona

1999 was okay, but the later rounds sucked...

Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 23 23 DB Antoine Winfield Ohio State
2 22 53 WR Peerless Price Tennessee
3 25 86 RB Shawn Bryson Tennessee
4 24 119 LB Keith Newman North Carolina
4 27 122 TE Bobby Collins North Alabama
5 23 156 LB Jay Foreman Nebraska
6 25 194 S Armon Hatcher Oregon State
7 24 230 TE Sheldon Jackson Nebraska
7 42 248 DL Bryce Fisher Air Force

[Michael82]

And I actually disagree about TD's drafts. They actually havent been that bad....

2001
Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 21 21 DB Nate Clements Ohio State
2 15 46 DE Aaron Schobel TCU
2 207 58 RB Travis Henry Tennessee
3 14 76 DT Ron Edwards Texas A&M
3 33* 95 OT Jonas Jennings Georgia
4 15 110 LB Brandon Spoon North Carolina
5 13 144 OT Marques Sullivan Illinois
6 15 178 S Tony Driver Notre Dame
6 32* 195 TE Dan O'Leary Notre Dame
6 33* 196 CB Jimmy Williams Vanderbilt
7 14 214 WR Reggie Germany Ohio State
7 38* 238 DT Tyrone Robertson Hinds CC

2002
Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 4 4 OT Mike Williams Texas
2 4 36 WR Josh Reed LSU
2 29 61 DE Ryan Denney BYU
3 32 97* SS Coy Wire Stanford
5 4 139 DT Justin Bannan Colorado
6 4 176 CB Kevin Thomas UNLV
7 4 215 OG Mike Pucillo Auburn
7 40 249* WR Rodney Wright Fresno St.
7 42 251* FB Jarett Ferguson Virginia Tech
7 50 260# LB Dominique Stevenson Tennessee

2003 is looking really good so far
Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 23 23 RB Willis McGahee Miami
2 16 48 DE Chris Kelsay Nebraska
3 30 94 LB Angelo Crowell Virginia
4 14 111 DB Terrence McGee Northwestern State
4 30 127* WR Sam Aiken North Carolina
5 16 151 OG Ben Sobieski Iowa
6 14 187 DT Lauvele Sape Utah
7 14 228 MLB Mario Haggan Mississippi State

2004
Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 13 13 WR Lee Evans Wisconsin
1 22 22* QB J.P. Losman Tulane
3 11 74 DT Tim Anderson Ohio St.
4 13 109 TE Tim Euhus Oregon State
7 6 207* OT Dylan McFarland Montana
7 13 214 WR Jonathan "Fast Freddie" Smith Georgia Tech

[mchurchfie]

And I actually disagree about TD's drafts. They actually havent been that bad....
2001
Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 21 21 DB Nate Clements Ohio State
2 15 46 DE Aaron Schobel TCU
2 207 58 RB Travis Henry Tennessee
3 14 76 DT Ron Edwards Texas A&M
3 33* 95 OT Jonas Jennings Georgia
4 15 110 LB Brandon Spoon North Carolina
5 13 144 OT Marques Sullivan Illinois
6 15 178 S Tony Driver Notre Dame
6 32* 195 TE Dan O'Leary Notre Dame
6 33* 196 CB Jimmy Williams Vanderbilt
7 14 214 WR Reggie Germany Ohio State
7 38* 238 DT Tyrone Robertson Hinds CC
2002
Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 4 4 OT Mike Williams Texas
2 4 36 WR Jake Reed LSU
2 29 61 DE Ryan Denney BYU
3 32 97* SS Coy Wire Stanford
5 4 139 DT Justin Bannan Colorado
6 4 176 CB Kevin Thomas UNLV
7 4 215 OG Mike Pucillo Auburn
7 40 249* WR Rodney Wright Fresno St.
7 42 251* FB Jarett Ferguson Virginia Tech
7 50 260# LB Dominique Stevenson Tennessee
2003 is looking really good so far
Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 23 23 RB Willis McGahee Miami
2 16 48 DE Chris Kelsay Nebraska
3 30 94 LB Angelo Crowell Virginia
4 14 111 DB Terrence McGee Northwestern State
4 30 127* WR Sam Aiken North Carolina
5 16 151 OG Ben Sobieski Iowa
6 14 187 DT Lauvele Sape Utah
7 14 228 MLB Mario Haggan Mississippi State
2004
Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College
1 13 13 WR Lee Evans Wisconsin
1 22 22* QB J.P. Losman Tulane
3 11 74 DT Tim Anderson Ohio St.
4 13 109 TE Tim Euhus Oregon State
7 6 207* OT Dylan McFarland Montana
7 13 214 WR Jonathan "Fast Freddie" Smith Georgia Tech
I only have one thing to say about that "Mike Williams.":puke:

[The_Philster]

2 4 36 WR Jake Reed LSU
:huh: I'm pretty sure Jake Reed retired...and wasn't drafted by us

[Captain Obvious]

That 2002 draft has set this organization back a little. I starter( A O-lineman picked 4th although above average when healthy, is not a probowler and plays RT) a quasi starter (Josh Reed, (whose play was subpar for 2 years) and the rest backups and never-weres.

[Michael82]

:huh: I'm pretty sure Jake Reed retired...and wasn't drafted by us
Oops, forgot to fix that. I copied it off BillsDaily like that.

[Michael82]

That 2002 draft has set this organization back a little. I starter( A O-lineman picked 4th although above average when healthy, is not a probowler and plays RT) a quasi starter (Josh Reed, (whose play was subpar for 2 years) and the rest backups and never-weres.
Agreed. 2002 slowed the Bills down a bit, but TD made up for that in 2003 and 2004.

[Bill Brasky]

you guys sound like the general public after hurricane katrina.... "rabble rabble rabble .... lets point fingers"

who's next?

here's some future thread headlines:

"BILLSZONE IS TO BLAME FOR THE BILLS WOES"
"CITY OF BUFFALO BUDGET CRISIS IS REASON BILLS ARE LOSING"
"RALPH WILSON STADIUM TURF IS TO BLAME"
"GAS PRICES CAUSE FOR BILLS WOES"
"MY DOG BARKED TOO LOUD FOR OLINE TO HEAR SNAP COUNT"
"BILLS ARE LOSING BECAUSE OF BUSH"

[mchurchfie]

Agreed. 2002 slowed the Bills down a bit, but TD made up for that in 2003 and 2004.
Right, it shows in the way the team is playing.:hang:

[Historian]

Cap Hell led to Donahoe.
If only we kept AJ Smith and promoted him. That might have been better. :sigh:

WHOA!!!

You are waaaay wrong on this one Mike!

You can have whatever opinion you want of Mr Butler personally, that's your perrogative. (For myself, the two times I met him personally, he was the utmost gentleman and a fan, as well as an employee of the team.)

But to say cap hell led to Donahoe is just plain wrong, historically.

Butler knew the going rate for a playoff team's GM was 3 mill per season, Ralph lowballed and offered about 1 mill. You can't blame the guy for bolting (no pun intended) for greener pastures.

Butler was told to extend those contracts...to make one last run with our aging stars. All he did was the job he was assigned to do.

Donahoe was brought in simply because he was there....an outcast with name recognition. I was in one of those Blue Coat meetings when they announced he had signed. The Bills front office was simply giddy about him coming here, and now five years later, the Bills are on the verge of laughingstock again. Donahoe's achilles heel is that he's power hungry, not because he's a bad guy, but because he doesn't want to be ousted again. Because of that, you lost Dwight Adams, possibly the best personnel man in the business, not to mention all the scouts that came with him...Rusty Jones...all ties to the glory years, etc...etc...

As for AJ Smith, the jury is still out on him IMO. Schotzy can make almost any GM look good. He may still be here had Butler not been squeezed out.

Re: Polian. I know he and Wilson's daughter never cared for each other, but I never heard any name calling. I thought his problem was more with Littman the treasurer, specifically, the Wolford escalator thing. Think about it though. You have an extermely successful GM, who has to run his decisions past accounting. Then you have the team's owner's daughter (albeit a team official) making his job more difficult. Why would you want to stay...especially if you've been voted Executive of the Year?

That tells me Churchie's initial premise is right....it's the ownership of this team that's the reason it's never won the big one, not Coach X or GM Y.

[mchurchfie]

WHOA!!!
You are waaaay wrong on this one Mike!
You can have whatever opinion you want of Mr Butler personally, that's your perrogative. (For myself, the two times I met him personally, he was the utmost gentleman and a fan, as well as an employee of the team.)
But to say cap hell led to Donahoe is just plain wrong, historically.
Butler knew the going rate for a playoff team's GM was 3 mill per season, Ralph lowballed and offered about 1 mill. You can't blame the guy for bolting (no pun intended) for greener pastures.
Butler was told to extend those contracts...to make one last run with our aging stars. All he did was the job he was assigned to do.
Donahoe was brought in simply because he was there....an outcast with name recognition. I was in one of those Blue Coat meetings when they announced he had signed. The Bills front office was simply giddy about him coming here, and now five years later, the Bills are on the verge of laughingstock again. Donahoe's achilles heel is that he's power hungry, not because he's a bad guy, but because he doesn't want to be ousted again. Because of that, you lost Dwight Adams, possibly the best personnel man in the business, not to mention all the scouts that came with him...Rusty Jones...all ties to the glory years, etc...etc...
As for AJ Smith, the jury is still out on him IMO. Schotzy can make almost any GM look good. He may still be here had Butler not been squeezed out.
Re: Polian. I know he and Wilson's daughter never cared for each other, but I never heard any name calling. I thought his problem was more with Littman the treasurer, specifically, the Wolford escalator thing. Think about it though. You have an extermely successful GM, who has to run his decisions past accounting. Then you have the team's owner's daughter (albeit a team official) making his job more difficult. Why would you want to stay...especially if you've been voted Executive of the Year?
That tells me Churchie's initial premise is right....it's the ownership of this team that's the reason it's never won the big one, not Coach X or GM Y.
:bf1::bf1::bf1: