A look at Miami's 2003 cap (LONG)

[clumping platelets]

I'll move this later!!! This is what I posted at FinHeaven

http://64.62.162.137/boardvb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11537

Link provided because I've updated my post there!

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Just an update for my Fishy friends ;)

Even though I'm a Bills fan, when it comes to the draft or the cap, I'm unbiased. Many of you will not believe that, but it is true. I offer my numbers that I maintain from a spreadsheet I've kept on the Fish (and of course my Bills) for 2 seasons. I don't need to keep one of the Pats because there is one available at www.patsfans.com/miguel . I'm going to try the Jets cap this offseason and keep track of the AFC East so as to be an informed nuisance

I presently have Miami $2.081 million OVER the projected 2003 cap of $73.9 million with 51 players signed. However, the recent extension of the DirecTV deal may lead to an increase in the cap number to as much as $76 million. We will all know in a couple of weeks.

According to www.nflpa.org and other sources, the follwing players are UFAs: DE Bowens, WR C. Carter, TE D. Clark, OT Dixon, RB Edwards, WR Gadsden, LB Gaylon, FB Konrad, CB Miranda, P Royals, OT B. Smith, OT Spriggs, and TE Weaver. RFAs: S Freeman, S Gamble, DB R. Green, DE Ogunleye, and DT Haley. EFAs: WR A. Johnson RFA FB Deon Dyer was already re-signed to 2 yr deal with salaries of 450K and 535K, I assumed $100,000 signing bonus)

Recent information indicates that Miami wants to keep Dixon, Gadsden, Konrad, and Royals. Possibly Bowens and Weaver. UFAs gone will likely be Carter, Clark, Edawards, Gaylon, Miranda, Smith, and Spriggs. RFAs and EFAs that are likely be retained: all except Green. Each player must be tendered prior to the start of the 2003 League Year (end of February). Minimum qualifying offers are likely to be as follows:

S Freeman (5th rd compensation): $615,000 (approx. )
S Gamble (no compensation): $615,000
DT Haley (7th rd compensation): $615,000 (Is he worth 1st rd tender??)
DE Ogunleye (no compensation): $615,000 (He is likely to receive 1st rd tender of approx. $1.5 million)

WR A. Johnson (EFA): $330,000

This would impact the cap as follows: It increases the number of players signed (tendered players are consider signed because the tender amount counts vs. cap). Miami would now have 56 players signed. Only the top 51 salaries count. Each of the above tenders are greater than the 5 lowest salaries, thus each adds to the cap. 615K+615K+615K+1,500K+330K=$3.675 million. This is offset by the 5 lowest salaries totalling $1.125 million. This effectively adds $2.55 million to the cap, thus Miami now has 56 players signed (51 top salaries count vs cap) and are $4.631 million OVER the projected $73.9 million cap

Next step: Miami must be under cap by March 1st. I'll look at how they can do this. The following players are potential salary cap cuts (cap savings):

QB Ray Lucas ($750,000) with dead cap of $266,000
WR James McKnight ($420,000) with dead cap of $1.08 million
OL Todd Perry ($300,000) with dead cap of $900,000
LB Derrick Rodgers($600,000) with dead cap of $1.5 million
C Tim Ruddy ($700,000) with dead cap of $1.6 million

What does this mean? Basically, when a player is released prior to June 1st in any League Year, any remaining bonus amortization from future years is accelerated into the year of release. Thus, Brock Marion(approx $1.2 million) and Jamar Fletcher (approx. $1 million) are not on the list because their release would ADD to the cap in 2003. Trading a player at any time during the offseason results in the same acceleration of the bonus, thus I doubt that Fletcher will be traded. He could be a candidate for release after June 1st and it would save $200,000.

The total for the 5 players listed is $2.77 million. HOWEVER, with the uncertainty on the OL with FA and injury concerns of Jaime Nails, I do not believe Perry is a true candidate for release. Ruddy has a $450,000 roster bonus, $1.85 million salary, and $800,000 bonus in both 2003 and 2004. Thsu, he only saves $700,000. Miami may be forced to release him in order to get under the cap. I will only release Lucas, Rodgers, and Ruddy. That saves $2.05 million. Miami now has 53 players signed and are still $2.581 million OVER

Since y'all are still $2.581 million OVER, restructuring/extensions are the next option. Follwing players to extend: LB Zach Thomas That's it!!! Why? Well, no one else can be extended without adding to the 2003 cap. Players like Taylor and Madison already have long term deals with HUGE bonus amortization. Suratin could be extended because he has 3 years left, but the primary target would be Zach Thomas. He has 1 yr left with salary of $4.7 million and bonus amortization of $2.306 million. His cap number is $7.06 million. No matter what happens, that $2.306 million cannot be changed. The minimum veterans salary for Zach is approx. $675,000 (7-9 years service). So, that's $2.981 million. The reports of a $12 million signing bonus are moronic!! Even if his deal were to be extended by 6 yrs, the resulting cap number for 2003 is $4.695 million and that saves only $2.365 million. That HUGE signing bonus would seriously hamper future cap years. Zach Thomas is 30 or 31 yrs old, no way that Spielman, if he's as good as he's said to be, gives him that type of bonus. I will give him a $7.2 million bonus to extend deal 5 yrs (that's 6 yrs total), but also include roster bonuses later in the deal that if not paid make him an UFA. The resulting bonus amortization is $7.2 million/6 yrs=$1.2 million. His new cap number is $4.181 million and his extension saves $2.879 million. Miami still has 53 players signed and now are $298,000 UNDER the cap

I'll end this now because many of you are getting dizzy

Just some ending notes:

1) Miami could still have a "debit" on the 2003 cap due to NLTBE incentives not applicable to the 2002 cap. Miami's "debit" in 2002 was $2,633,052. If Miami has a similar cap adjustment ("debit"), then another $2.3 million in cap space would need to be found in order to just be cap compliant!

2) Miami, as do many teams, really need the new DirecTV deal to increase the cap. Early projections are about $2 million.

3) Restructuring contracts lead you into cap hell. Right now, Miami is in cap jail. Thus, looking to Taylor and Madison to restruture again, isn't a sound strategy but may be necessary.

4) It may be better is release Zach Thomas due to the cap and find a younger, bigger MLB

5) Miami is not going to be a major player in FA prior to June 1st, the cap space is just not there. They also do not have much flexibility.

6) After June 1st, Miami could release players and spread out the bonus amortization over 2 yrs. This could free up cap space to add inexpensive UFAs going into training camp


I'll continue to update y'all as new information becomes available!

(My sources are numerous media articles, nflpa website, and MiamiDonW from kffl (who I think is aqua on this site )




:feedback:

[Earthquake Enyart]

Boy that's a darn shame. :snicker:

I think they should release Thomas and keep Lucas.

[clumping platelets]

:gag:

[SABURZFAN]

if they release surtain and madison,they'll be WELL under the cap.:biggrin:

[SABURZFAN]

OOPS!!!i forgot to add thomas and taylor too.

[clumping platelets]

While that would be wunderbar, most of those players cannot be released because it would INCREASE the cap due to acceleration of bonus amortization. Zach Thomas could be released and they save $4.7 million.


Miami fans are in denial. I do the work and they quote statements from 2 or 3 months ago. They refuse to understand that it's entirely possible that I'm closer to being right than they believe. :rolleyes:

[Earthquake Enyart]

What's new? They are always in denial. Why do you think they keep dragging up those '72 idiots?

[itsandthings]

Unfortunatly, as much as I wish what you did was true, it is a piece of fiction. Miami isn't in nearly the poor cap shape you think. They will have to restructure some contracts, but those contracts are for their good players. They also have to extend Zach Thomas, which will cost some cash, but make his contract very cap friendly.

The truth of the matter is, Miami is in pretty good shape for 2003 and the near future. As long as the players they have signing bonus money invested in continue to play well, they are fine.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I don't believe you. :shakeno:

I believe clump. :cp:

[Captain gameboy]

Miami is always in bad shape. Sometimes, it's just badder.

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
What's new? They are always in denial. Why do you think they keep dragging up those '72 idiots?


So where are my errors? :rolleyes:

Miami fans say I'm wrong and you say I'm wrong but nobody proves I'm wrong. I WANT NUMBERS!!!


They restructured Taylor and Surtain last year. Madison is clearly regressing on the field, he is signed through 2006 and it is greater than his 2003 salary, thus no savings unless they released him after June 1st, highly unlikely and is restructuring his deal.

[itsandthings]

It will take some time, but I will break it down for you.

[Judge]

Originally posted by itsandthings
Unfortunatly, as much as I wish what you did was true, it is a piece of fiction. Miami isn't in nearly the poor cap shape you think. They will have to restructure some contracts, but those contracts are for their good players. They also have to extend Zach Thomas, which will cost some cash, but make his contract very cap friendly.

The truth of the matter is, Miami is in pretty good shape for 2003 and the near future. As long as the players they have signing bonus money invested in continue to play well, they are fine.

Prove it- Clump's work and math are posted for all to see. Prove him wrong with facts and numbers!

[Ebenezer]

Are we all in agreement that Miami can avoid jail if they restructure deals?? IF so then they will be in jail in the future...I'll believe CP until proven otherwise.

[don137]

These are the same Miami fans that said there was no stopping the Dolphins this year and implied the Super Trophy is a done deal.
It is humorous that they think they can go after a player like Colvin. Techinically they can but it will have to come at a steep price by cutting some good players...
Reality will soon set it on them. Until then let them continue to be disbelievers and insult you Clump and say you are wrong but can't back it up. What else would you expect from a fin fan?

[Ebenezer]

I predict that Miami is idle in the free agent market...they will not sign Price or Colvin...in fact, they will have trouble signing their own...people don't consider the cost of losing their own players...look at the list:

DE Bowens
WR C. Carter
TE D. Clark
OT Dixon
RB Edwards
WR Gadsden
LB Gaylon
FB Konrad
CB Miranda
P Royals
OT B. Smith
OT Spriggs
TE Weaver.

Correct me if I am wrong but except for Carter, Miranda, Royals and Smith each of them were a major contributor this year. Who steps up to replace them?? Konrad is worth a boat load of money...Miami is over the cap but they cannot possibly redo the contracts necessary to resign all those pieces.

[Judge]

Originally posted by don137
These are the same Miami fans that said there was no stopping the Dolphins this year and implied the Super Trophy is a done deal.
It is humorous that they think they can go after a player like Colvin. Techinically they can but it will have to come at a steep price by cutting some good players...
Reality will soon set it on them. Until then let them continue to be disbelievers and insult you Clump and say you are wrong but can't back it up. What else would you expect from a fin fan?

It should have been a done deal for Miami. They're the biggest choke story in the NFL this year.

I've posted several times that Miami fans are the worst- their team can do no wrong, even when it stinks up the joint.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by clumping platelets



So where are my errors? :rolleyes:

Miami fans say I'm wrong and you say I'm wrong but nobody proves I'm wrong. I WANT NUMBERS!!!




Numbers? wait til' wys finishes making them sauces. He'll have your numbers.

[clumping platelets]

:chuckle:

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by Ebenezer
I predict that Miami is idle in the free agent market...they will not sign Price or Colvin...in fact, they will have trouble signing their own...people don't consider the cost of losing their own players...look at the list:

DE Bowens
WR C. Carter
TE D. Clark
OT Dixon
RB Edwards
WR Gadsden
LB Gaylon
FB Konrad
CB Miranda
P Royals
OT B. Smith
OT Spriggs
TE Weaver.

Correct me if I am wrong but except for Carter, Miranda, Royals and Smith each of them were a major contributor this year. Who steps up to replace them?? Konrad is worth a boat load of money...Miami is over the cap but they cannot possibly redo the contracts necessary to resign all those pieces.


This is something they don't seem to understand. Yes, you can release a player like Ruddy or McKinight, but who's on the roster to replace them? If a player is on the roster, they count vs cap....:rolleyes:

[Ebenezer]

Thus the term salary cap jail...you can maneuver around the current cap all you want but eventually you will pay for it...Miami has some serious choices to make in 2003 and 2004...they are exactly where the Bills were in 1999 and 2000...a loss of a player here, there, another 2 here, failure to resign and then replace with nobodies or rookies...the fuse is lit...the question is when and how it goes off.

[itsandthings]

Assuming Miami tenders Freeman, Haley, Gamble and Ogunleye at $619K (the low RFA tender) and Albert Johnson at $375K (the 3rd year EFA tender), as you stated:

- The Dolphins will have $76,540,742 committed to the 2003 cap.

- Per the Top-51 rule, the 'phins will be at 75,040,742.

- Of that money, $6,201,548 is dead money, the bulk of it for DT Daryl Gardener.

- Zach Thomas (in the last year of his contract) has a cap figure of 6,914,250, which is made up of $4.7M in base salary, a $300k roster bonus and $1,914,250 in SB amortization.His cap figure could probably be lowered about $2.5M with a contract extension, or the 'phins could save a straight $5M if they release him (unlikley).

- The 'phins could possibly cut Tim Ruddy ($1.5M net savings), James McKnight ($780K net savings prior to June 1, $1.2M 2003 savings post-June 1), Derrick Rodgers ($1.35M net cap savings prior to June 1, $2.1M net savings after June 1), Rob Burnett ($950K net cap savings) and Ray Lucas ($750K net cap savings). If these players were all released prior to Feb 28, the Dolphins dead money would rise to $10,448,214. I didn't have them getting rid of Perry because I think they like him and want to keep him.

- The above moves and the estimated $2.5M savings on Zach Thomas contract extension would put the Dolphins at $68,410,742, or well under the cap. They would have exactly 51 players under contract. That is without touching any of the high cap-value contracts for restructure, something they can do to clear more room.

- Ricky Williams carries no SB amortization on his contract, due to the fact that he was traded to Miami. Restructuring his deal by converting salary to bonus could clear anywhere from $1.5M-$2.5M easily without creating a huge amount of future amortization (since he is starting from zero).

- The only way the Dolphins might create an inordinate amount of cap issues is to restructure contracts of players who already have big amortizations spread into the future, like Taylor, Madison and Surtain. However, if they choose to restructure those players they can create millions in cap room and not worry about the consequences until those players are no longer their best players, which is years away. A simple restructure of Taylor, reducing his salary to the minimum, would save as much as $3.785M in 2003. A simple restructure of Madison would save as much as $3.86M in 2003. A simple restructure of Surtain would save as much as $3.04M in 2003. They don't have to take all that money, but it is available to them if they need it.

- While the Dolphins are getting more heavily leveraged, they aren't in cap jail. They may be headed there if they choose to create a lot of room for the short-term, but they are at least 2 seasons away (2005) if they choose that route, and then they will have to go through what the Ravens did in 2002.

[itsandthings]

What do I think they will do? I think they restructure and create a lot of room, signing some FA to fill needs. I think they restructure guys again in 2004. Looking at it, they have no 1st round draft pick and have a core group of players that make up a competitive team. I think they sacrifice their future and go for it all in 2003 and 2004.

Then, in 2005, they are the 2002 Ravens.

I don't disagree with your premise, however you overstate how leveraged they are and how long it will take the 'phins to use up their remaining cap flexibility. They aren't in bad shape. Their big money is tied up in good players, which isn't as bad as having it tied up in players who aren't worth it. Also, they have some young, cheap players to balance it off (Williams, Wade, Chambers, McMichael).

[clumping platelets]

Ricky Williams' deal was re-done last Sept and if you read the part about it http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/5706993
Would Ricky restructure again? Miami would need to give him a huge signing bonus so he can recoup on getting rid of those incentives.

I have Ogunleye at a 1st rd tender. Why? He was an undrafted FA and thus Miami wouldn't receive any compensation. He has developed into a capable DE and I do not believe Miami would risk losing him as an RFA with the minimum qualifying offer and then necessitating matching an offer sheet.

According to your numbers:

Does Miami's numbers you state include a cap adjustment? They had a cap adjustment debit of $2.633 million in 2002, how much in 2003?

I'm missing Thomas' roster bonus of $300,000.

Burnett's salary is only $850,000...does he have a $100,00 roster bonus? BUT, I did not include him on the cut list.

Ruddy has 450K roster bonus and $1.85 million salary. His amortization is 800K for both 2003 & 2004. That's $2.3 million-$1.6 million= $700,000 cap savings. Is my amortization wrong?

They still need to replace players released, thus my position that being a major player in FA is absolutely correct.

I'll include more soon

Thanks itsandthings :)

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by itsandthings
What do I think they will do? I think they restructure and create a lot of room, signing some FA to fill needs. I think they restructure guys again in 2004. Looking at it, they have no 1st round draft pick and have a core group of players that make up a competitive team. I think they sacrifice their future and go for it all in 2003 and 2004.

Then, in 2005, they are the 2002 Ravens.

I don't disagree with your premise, however you overstate how leveraged they are and how long it will take the 'phins to use up their remaining cap flexibility. They aren't in bad shape. Their big money is tied up in good players, which isn't as bad as having it tied up in players who aren't worth it. Also, they have some young, cheap players to balance it off (Williams, Wade, Chambers, McMichael).

You conclusion...in the middle...is that in 2005 they are the 2002 Ravens (or the 2001 Bills) is correct. However, I still contend that their performance on the field will slip faster than that because although as you state that are not in jail they have to hope to replace talent with cheaper guys who are not proven. If that does not pan out then they will be a salary cap strapped team on the slide in 2003 and 2004 and when 2005 hits they will be very hard off capwise and talent wise indeed. Leading to a team that might be worse than the 2001 Bills.

[clumping platelets]

McKnight has 3 yrs remaining and I have his bonus amortization at $360,000/season. His 2003 salary is $1.5 million. 3 x $360,000=$1.08 million, thus his release prior to June 1st saves only $420,000.

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by itsandthings
What do I think they will do? I think they restructure and create a lot of room, signing some FA to fill needs. I think they restructure guys again in 2004. Looking at it, they have no 1st round draft pick and have a core group of players that make up a competitive team. I think they sacrifice their future and go for it all in 2003 and 2004.

Then, in 2005, they are the 2002 Ravens.

I don't disagree with your premise, however you overstate how leveraged they are and how long it will take the 'phins to use up their remaining cap flexibility. They aren't in bad shape. Their big money is tied up in good players, which isn't as bad as having it tied up in players who aren't worth it. Also, they have some young, cheap players to balance it off (Williams, Wade, Chambers, McMichael).


Ricky Williams' salary is now $1.95 million and he earned an additional $2.1 million in NLTBE bonuses applicable to 2003. That change alone is approx. $3.75 million extra on the 2003 cap. Did you include these changes? If you look at the link to Pete Prisco's article dated Sept 2002, he lays out how RW's contract is now structured.

Wade has 1 yr remaining, thus he will need new deal after 2003. That will not come cheaply. He will require 1st rd tender, maybe 1st and 3rd.

While they can create millions of cap space by converting salary to bonus, there is the distinct possibility they will fail miserably.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Atta boy clump. :cp:

[Ebenezer]

Advantage CP....

[Gunzlingr]

CP is my new god!!!!

[itsandthings]

McKnight has 3 yrs remaining and I have his bonus amortization at $360,000/season. His 2003 salary is $1.5 million. 3 x $360,000=$1.08 million, thus his release prior to June 1st saves only $420,000.

He has 3 Years left, including 2003. His 2003 base is $1.5, but his cap number is $1.86M, since it includes a year of bonus amortization. If released, he would save $1.86M less $1.08M, or $780K. They may wait until June 1 to release him, as they have enough wiggle room to wait.

I have Ogunleye at a 1st rd tender. Why? He was an undrafted FA and thus Miami wouldn't receive any compensation. He has developed into a capable DE and I do not believe Miami would risk losing him as an RFA with the minimum qualifying offer and then necessitating matching an offer sheet.

I went with the low tender because that is what you had him at in your original post, despite mentioning he could be tendered higher. You are correct, however, he is a good player and they likely will have to tender him at a 1st-round level.

Does Miami's numbers you state include a cap adjustment? They had a cap adjustment debit of $2.633 million in 2002, how much in 2003?

No, those numbers won't be released for a while.

Burnett's salary is only $850,000...does he have a $100,00 roster bonus? BUT, I did not include him on the cut list.

He has a $100K roster bonus and $1.35M in NLTBE (which have no impact). It is no certainty they will cut him, they may decide to keep him if they think he can stay healthy. They may work on a new contract altogether.

Ruddy has 450K roster bonus and $1.85 million salary. His amortization is 800K for both 2003 & 2004. That's $2.3 million-$1.6 million= $700,000 cap savings. Is my amortization wrong?

Remember, a year of amortization is included in his 2003 cap number. He has a $1.85M salary, $450K roster bonus and $800K in amortization, which totals to a $3.1M cap number. If released (his roster bonus is due 2/28), he will have 2 years worth of bonus amortization left, or $1.6M/ $3.1M less $1.6M equals $1.5M.

Ricky Williams' salary is now $1.95 million and he earned an additional $2.1 million in NLTBE bonuses applicable to 2003. That change alone is approx. $3.75 million extra on the 2003 cap. Did you include these changes? If you look at the link to Pete Prisco's article dated Sept 2002, he lays out how RW's contract is now structured.

I am familiar with Ricky's contract. My guess is Ricky gets a whole new contract with a signing bonus. The reason his numbers isn't a big deal is because there is no SB amortization. They could cut him tomorrow and he would have no impact on their cap (of course, they won't do that). That gives them a lot of flexibility in dealing with him. The amount of bonus is all that matters, for there is no guarantee the player will see anything else.

Wade has 1 yr remaining, thus he will need new deal after 2003. That will not come cheaply. He will require 1st rd tender, maybe 1st and 3rd.

They can sign him to a new long-term deal and keep it cap-friendly. They just have to be willing to offer up front money. Granted, they have several young players they need to deal with, but they aren't in as bad a condition as you think.

While they can create millions of cap space by converting salary to bonus, there is the distinct possibility they will fail miserably.

At what? They could fail to acquire the right players, but the room is there if they need it. If they really want to get creative they can pursue contract extensions (instead of restructures) with guys like Taylor, Madison, Surtain. That would allow them to push the bonus money even further out there, pushing off the inevitible longer than 2005.

[Cntrygal]

cp:chat:itsandthings

[clumping platelets]

If released, Ricky Williams would count $2.1 million on the 2003 cap because of NLTBE incentives from 2002.

My numbers included a 1st rd tender DE Ogunleye


What I mean by "fail miserably" is forfeiting the future by restructuring the long term deals of Taylor, Surtain, and Madison....they better win it all, if they don't it would be years before they put together a team that can be competitive

[clumping platelets]

I grant you my subtraction errors :doh:


My mistake, your fault! ;)

[Tatonka]

kdjoiajf fjie boo adkjf wpoeipiogb..

akdjrewa joiajuweio b;l lerk aa dkf dooodie.


i think i am speaking as clearly as those two..lol

[Ebenezer]

Could each of you...CP and Itsandthings...answer me this in 25 words or less...and boil this whole thing down?


Can the Dolphins sign their players, prevent cap hell and stay competitive over the next 5 years or are they headed for the implosion felt by the Bills in 2001?

[Tatonka]

owsbjawer ojv ojoajeorj [opdkjsd iivj kekwj

ksdjdfksj i jiwe bvoweifj oid


i figured i would say it first.. one of those guys will quote me too.. you watch =)

[Cntrygal]

:lol:

Why should they? :D

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Ebenezer
Could each of you...CP and Itsandthings...answer me this in 25 words or less...and boil this whole thing down?


Can the Dolphins sign their players, prevent cap hell and stay competitive over the next 5 years or are they headed for the implosion felt by the Bills in 2001?

Maybe.

When it's all said and done, 3 years from now, the fins are going to be kicking themselves for not getting themselves a decent QB.

The other thing we have going for us is that Wanny is making the decisions. The fins will suck. Copiously. :biggrin:

[itsandthings]

Can the Dolphins sign their players, prevent cap hell and stay competitive over the next 5 years or are they headed for the implosion felt by the Bills in 2001?

They can, but I don't think they will. I would guess that they decided to go for it with their current core group when they decided to trade for Ricky Williams, which cost them 2 first picks, and restructure contracts to sign guys last year.

That said, they don't need to keep restructuring, and they aren't in bad shape. Just cutting Zach Thomas this year would help their long-term cap, although it would hurt their talent-level. They will have to live lean for the next couple years, but they aren't as bad as you say. Of course, if they try to load up again this year they will have to do it in FA, as they don't have a top choice. That means restructuring and spending some of the future.

The fact they have a pretty good talent base, including some good young guys, would point toward their remaining competitive. The question is whether they are willing to let some guys go or if they keep restructuring deals until they reach critical mass. Even then, you take your bullet in 1 year and start rebuilding.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Wanny thought trading a No. 1 (I beleive 7th overall??) for Rick Mirer was a good idea.

[don137]

If the Dolphins were not good enough to make the playoffs with there current players how will they get better by cutting Thomas and restructuring a couple of the core players to sign one or two average players since they do not have the money to go after good players as because they will want to sign players like Konrad, Dixon and Bowens. The fins will have no depth.

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by don137
If the Dolphins were not good enough to make the playoffs with there current players how will they get better by cutting Thomas and restructuring a couple of the core players to sign one or two average players since they do not have the money to go after good players as because they will want to sign players like Konrad, Dixon and Bowens. The fins will have no depth.



ding ding ding...we have a winner....that is what i have been talking about for a year...dangerously thin at talent positions, unable to resign their own, cannot replace depth, no money under the cap....

...SALARY CAP JAIL...

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by Ebenezer
Could each of you...CP and Itsandthings...answer me this in 25 words or less...and boil this whole thing down?


Can the Dolphins sign their players, prevent cap hell and stay competitive over the next 5 years or are they headed for the implosion felt by the Bills in 2001?


Eb, I can answer that with one word!

NO!

It's almost lunch time....I'll post my version later :dink:

[itsandthings]

OK, but they still have plenty of room to restructure and create room in the short-term. Their serious cap issues are still years away, which is why they are likely to extend Thomas and be active. They have a 2-year window to try and make themselves better, before having to dump a bunch of contracts and take the bullet in 2005. They they bounce back in 2006.

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by itsandthings
OK, but they still have plenty of room to restructure and create room in the short-term. Their serious cap issues are still years away, which is why they are likely to extend Thomas and be active. They have a 2-year window to try and make themselves better, before having to dump a bunch of contracts and take the bullet in 2005. They they bounce back in 2006.



I can see them extending Thomas...they will have to. However, I think we can all agree that the light at the end of the tunnel is the same train that hit the Bills in 2001. Miami is on the same road.

[clumping platelets]

http://64.62.162.137/boardvb2/showthread.php?s=&postid=137883#post137883

Check the post by "aqua" :)

It's just above my post thanking him :cool:

[lordofgun]

From finheaven:


Originally posted by Aqua
Some people have been made to look like fools in this thread.

Clump, who I know as Rabal, is extremely accurate in his assessment on the Miami cap situation. Trust me when I say he knows what he's talking about and trust him when he says that I know what I'm talking about.

How do I know? Because I'm the Miami fan who has all the Miami cap information. I've been charting the Miami cap for three years, I know the CBA from top to bottom, and my numbers are more accurate than most anything published in the Miami Herald and the Sun-Sentinel.

Just because people write for a newspaper doesn't mean that everything they print is accurate, especially when pertaining to the cap. Also just because people don't write for a newspaper doesn't mean they don't have accurate cap info.

Now I don't have the time right now to go into length but I will later today. I'll give you my cap analysis and before you guys get your panties in a bunch I'll show you how the numbers are worse than Clump/Rabal has them at.

One more thing, this board needs to lighten up man.

[clumping platelets]

Stop it! Your making me blush!

What movie and who said it??? :)

[itsandthings]

I'll have to wait until he posts his analysis and correct him.

[clumping platelets]

:doh:

[Ebenezer]

How do I know? Because I'm the Miami fan who has all the Miami cap information. I've been charting the Miami cap for three years, I know the CBA from top to bottom, and my numbers are more accurate than most anything published in the Miami Herald and the Sun-Sentinel.

Just because people write for a newspaper doesn't mean that everything they print is accurate, especially when pertaining to the cap. Also just because people don't write for a newspaper doesn't mean they don't have accurate cap info.



Do you know how many times I've called the local radio stations and corrected them on the air as to their misinformation...and then just a couple of days later they are using the numbers I gave them?? It was hysterical when I told WNSA that when Donahoe came in and would gut the team they laughed at me. When I told them the Bills would be out of cap jail in 2002 and could sign players they wanted to know where I got my numbers. When I told them that in 2003 the Bills would be at least 10 mil if not 12 mil under the cap on 2/1/03 they nearly cut me off....

:rolleyes:

If you want somebody who doesn't know crap just tune into Zig at night on WNSA...the guy is the biggest windbag on the radio. I have called him out over half a dozen times on the air and he never knows what to say.

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by itsandthings
I'll have to wait until he posts his analysis and correct him.


Beyond arrogant :rolleyes:

[itsandthings]

Why is that arrogant? If the guy thinks the Dolphins have no room right now, then he is wrong. I figure he would appreciate me pointing out where his numbers are off.

[clumping platelets]

Just the way you post. Do you ever make mistakes? Or could it be possible that you're incorrect in your analysis?

When I posted that, I welcomed information to make corrections. You post as if YOU ARE THE CAP GOD!

[lordofgun]

Originally posted by itsandthings
I'll have to wait until he posts his analysis and correct him.

:lol:

I like your attitude.

[itsandthings]

That is your perception. I have never claimed to be a "cap god". Quite the opposite, I know I am informed but I don't claim to know it all.

I have some information, and I have shared it willingly. I have disagreed on some points and detailed exactly where, which is what you asked me to do. I am sorry you are so offended by my correcting your mistakes.

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by itsandthings
I'll have to wait until he posts his analysis and correct him.


Don't claim to know it all? What does this statement say then?

My perception is that you tend to be condescending at times and it's not really necessary.

[itsandthings]

Again, that is your perception, which is not something I control. I am not the one who has claimed to be a "cap expert".

You seem a little sensitive to an differing viewpoint. I wasn't trying to demean you and really don't want to deal with your insecurity. You asked for numbers, I gave you numbers. My above statement was made tongue-n-cheek, which I guess was lost because I didn't take the time to add one of those little icons (although LOG seemed to get it).

If it makes you feel better, I'll let your analysis stand without any dissenting opinion.

[SoCalBillsFan]

capologist envy?

[Dozerdog]

When capologists fight- do they drop their pocket protectors like hockey players drop their gloves?

[Earthquake Enyart]

Ever since they got rid of slide rules, the fighting has never been the same.

[clumping platelets]

I use an abacus

its :chair: clump


;)

[Typ0]

I look at this and think not only can't they get rid of Fiedler they also can't afford to bring in anyone decent to compete with him or back him up. What great news.

[Novacane]

Clump..................this guys #'s are way differant than yours. They are all over at Finheaven mocking you because this guy claims the fins are 5.3 under the cap.


http://www.askthecommish.com/Articles/SalaryCap.htm

[Typ0]

This commish guy is as big a joker as the folks at Finheaven.

[don137]

Of course the fin fans are naive and will believe whomever has the information most beneficial to them. No way does the Commish put in the effort for each team that Clump puts in for the AFC East calculating the cap. Would you expect anything less than fin fans running there mouth off then later come back with there tail between there legs embarassed because once again they are wrong. It's fun having inferior unknowledgable loud mouth fans in your division because it's quite amusing laughing at them.
Can you believe even in North Carolina all season long Fin fans were calling the local sports radio station saying how Fielder and Ricky will take them to the super bowl and all Fielder does is win. Some even said he was better than Marino.

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
Clump..................this guys #'s are way differant than yours. They are all over at Finheaven mocking you because this guy claims the fins are 5.3 under the cap.


http://www.askthecommish.com/Articles/SalaryCap.htm


These numbers do not include incentives earned in 2002 that apply to the 2003(NLTBE: Not-likely-to-be-earned)

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
Clump..................this guys #'s are way differant than yours. They are all over at Finheaven mocking you because this guy claims the fins are 5.3 under the cap.


http://www.askthecommish.com/Articles/SalaryCap.htm
read where it says Note.you can bet that ricky williams performance based incentives aren't on there as well as a few other players.this Direct TV deal added $1.1 million to the cap and some of their fans think that they're about $6.5 million under the cap now.
as for Finheaven,i think Clump set a few straight while others continue not to believe him.i don't know the whole cap thing and i thought Clump was out of his mind when he said they were over but i've been picking up bits and pieces to further educate myself in this area.i'll never be a capologist but i find myself spending more time trying to understand it.

[clumping platelets]

Thanks for the kudos. Things are in the works to educate any and all fans more about the cap.

Stay tuned


BTW: None of Ricky's incentives ($2.1 million) are in those numbers at the link above. Neither are the recent signings by the Fins of training camp fodder

[Novacane]

I tried defending your #'s CP and they attacked me like a bunch of starving piranah's!

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by SABURZFAN
i thought Clump was out of his mind



Originally posted by clumping platelets
Thanks for the kudos.


you're welcome.


:biggrin:

[Ebenezer]

:angry: them...they'll all learn soon enough.

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
I tried defending your #'s CP and they attacked me like a bunch of starving piranah's!

they really got on Clump so you weren't alone.

[SABURZFAN]

i was over on another board "discussing" the FISH cap matters.this came up yesterday and i thought that it was very funny.

http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/nfl/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=nfl_mia&id=204060

[clumping platelets]

Originally posted by BledsoeTOreedfor6
I tried defending your #'s CP and they attacked me like a bunch of starving piranah's!


Yep........and they attacked me. A few Fishy fans(AJ, aqua, and a couple more) backed me as well.