My guess is that we’re not rebuilding.

[Patrick76777]

Call it a hunch but I came to the conclusion for a few reasons. And it makes me very happy. Here are some of the reasons.

-A good rebuilding plan takes a good 5 years. Seeing as how Ralph is 86 and Marv is 80, I doubt these guys are looking at 5 years down the road. These guys should have second thoughts about looking 5 months down the road. The doubters will say that Marv’s in better shape then most 40 year olds. True, but when you’re 80, it could go down at any time.

-Marv had a weekly radio show on WGR. Numerous times throughout the season he would say that this is a win now league. He also went as far as to agree with the benching of JP and said that you should always play your best players and the guys who give you the best shot to win the next game.

-At the PC yesterday, Jauron mentioned that we were going to try to win now. Sure we could write this off as coach speak, but based on the two points above and Ralph and Marv telling us that they were going to be more straight forward with the fans, I’m thinking that he was being honest.

So what does this mean?

1. It means that I’m very happy! I know I’m in the minority, but I think this team has a lot of talent.
2. This is a somewhat risky proposition. On one hand, I’m one that believes that you rebuild as you go. There’s no real reason to rush out and start cutting guys just to create more cap room that you don’t plan on using anyway. For example, we have 4 picks in the top 70 in the draft. Used wisely (see point 6), those 4 picks could be starters for the next 5 years. The risky part comes in with the idea that the current nucleus of players is good for 2 or possibly even 3 more kicks at the can. Without very good drafts the next 3 years, we could be in trouble when that time comes. I can see how some would be weary of this proposition, thinking that it’s a waste of time to take the chance with the next 3 years and just start from scratch now. The key will be good drafting over the next 3 years to ease the transition from the nucleus now to the new guys coming in.
3. I would have to think that Moulds and Adams will be brought back. Moulds of course will be restructured, a method practiced by every team in the league except for us under TD who took the term fiscal responsibility to a new level. If what I said above was true, Levy will not want to go into the season without these 2 big guns on the field. We’d be severely weak at either position if either of these guys were cut.
4. I would think that a strong effort would be made to bring back Clements but I won’t go so far as to call it a slam-dunk. I’ve heard that the Tag for CB’s will be about 5.3M, which IMO is a very fair 1-year salary for Nate. If I were in charge, I would tag him. I would listen to trade offers, but unless my socks were knocked off with a tremendous offer, I’d keep him for the season.
5. I have a feeling a new QB will be brought in. This is going to be one touchy subject but the QB play last season was atrocious. It’s difficult for me to criticize the play of our offensive skill players with the QB play we suffered thru. In addition, Marv and Dick have no ties to JP. They don’t care when he was drafted. Again, based on my assumptions above, they will be less likely suffer thru 2 years of bad play so that JP will ready to be good in 3 years. At the same time, if they’re ready to win now, I don’t see them trusting Holcomb to get it done. It’s my guess that they’ll look for another QB. I have NO idea who they will target.
6. This is more of an opinion, but for the draft, we have 4 day one picks and at least 4 day two picks. I don’t want a single “High Motor” guy and I don’t want a single, “project”. Especially with the day one guys. 9 times out of 10, “High Motor” means that the guy doesn’t have great talent, but works hard. And even thought the Jason Peters project appears to have worked, I don’t want to draft an undersized player and try to switch positions. It rarely works. Let’s only draft guys that started in college at the position that we want them to play.
7. The O-line will be addressed in the draft and possible slightly in Free agency.


Kind of where I see us heading.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am all for winning now!

[ICE74129]

Then you can't go with Holcomb which is what they will do. Holcomb is NOT a starting QB in this league. I can save them wasting 1/2 the season trying to find out. The man is NOT a starter in this league.

Bring in someone else and trade JP. For JP's sake he needs to demand a trade. If they aren't going to play him, let the kid go somewhere else. Why do that to him? Why just make him sit on the bench and ruin his career?

Do the right thing and trade him ASAP so he can get on with his career. That is the right thing to do. All he did wrong was not have enough experience.

[ICE74129]

5. I have a feeling a new QB will be brought in. This is going to be one touchy subject but the QB play last season was atrocious. It’s difficult for me to criticize the play of our offensive skill players with the QB play we suffered thru. In addition, Marv and Dick have no ties to JP. They don’t care when he was drafted. Again, based on my assumptions above, they will be less likely suffer thru 2 years of bad play so that JP will ready to be good in 3 years. At the same time, if they’re ready to win now, I don’t see them trusting Holcomb to get it done. It’s my guess that they’ll look for another QB. I have NO idea who they will target.


Look JP hater, please get a clue. The TEAM Sucked. JP couldn't do spit behind that line and holcomb racked up a LOSING Record as well. 10th season in the league and still couldn't win...so WTF did you expect a guy that is essentially a ROOKIE to do? Fix the damn lines!

[Patrick76777]

Then you can't go with Holcomb which is what they will do. Holcomb is NOT a starting QB in this league. I can save them wasting 1/2 the season trying to find out. The man is NOT a starter in this league.

Bring in someone else and trade JP. For JP's sake he needs to demand a trade. If they aren't going to play him, let the kid go somewhere else. Why do that to him? Why just make him sit on the bench and ruin his career?

Do the right thing and trade him ASAP so he can get on with his career. That is the right thing to do. All he did wrong was not have enough experience.


My 5th point was that I think they'll bring in a new QB.

And screw JP. Bring in the new guy, cut Holcomb and JP's the number 2 for a season. You don't do favors for players in this league.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Then you can't go with Holcomb which is what they will do. Holcomb is NOT a starting QB in this league. I can save them wasting 1/2 the season trying to find out. The man is NOT a starter in this league.

Bring in someone else and trade JP. For JP's sake he needs to demand a trade. If they aren't going to play him, let the kid go somewhere else. Why do that to him? Why just make him sit on the bench and ruin his career?

Do the right thing and trade him ASAP so he can get on with his career. That is the right thing to do. All he did wrong was not have enough experience.
what is the right thing again???

[ICE74129]

what is the right thing again???

Trade JP and let him get on with his career. They aren't going to let him develop so let him move on.

[Patrick76777]

Look JP hater, please get a clue. The TEAM Sucked. JP couldn't do spit behind that line and holcomb racked up a LOSING Record as well. 10th season in the league and still couldn't win...so WTF did you expect a guy that is essentially a ROOKIE to do? Fix the damn lines!


My point in this thread is not about hating on JP. It’s about assuming that the team is going to try to win right away. Based on that assumption, and the fact that the new management has no ties to the drafting of JP, I could see them looking for a more viable option at QB as opposed to suffering thru the growing pains of a young QB. .

[THATHURMANATOR]

My 5th point was that I think they'll bring in a new QB.

And screw JP. Bring in the new guy, cut Holcomb and JP's the number 2 for a season. You don't do favors for players in this league.
I also agree with this.
I would however give him a real chance to win the Job and go with the best option.

[ICE74129]

My 5th point was that I think they'll bring in a new QB.

And screw JP. Bring in the new guy, cut Holcomb and JP's the number 2 for a season. You don't do favors for players in this league.

No screw you and all the JP haters. Let the kid have is career. All he did was come in and bust his ass. His reward is ******ed fans talking sh@! about him and ripping him to shreads, a moron for a HC that pulls him to try and save his own job...then QUITS, and assclown team mates only worried about themselfs.

The kid deserves his shot and it won't be in Buffalo

[ICE74129]

I also agree with this.
I would however give him a real chance to win the Job and go with the best option.

There is no such thing. When are you guys going to wake up? There is no QB competition. Sorry, no. It is all one sided. They decide on the guy they want, and he gets the most reps with the first team. The other guy looks like sh@! Because he is stuck with arena league camp fodder in preseason games to make it look like the other guy is better.

I thought you guys actually watched football and followed camps?

[ICE74129]

My point in this thread is not about hating on JP. It’s about assuming that the team is going to try to win right away. Based on that assumption, and the fact that the new management has no ties to the drafting of JP, I could see them looking for a more viable option at QB as opposed to suffering thru the growing pains of a young QB. .

Then you trade JP. JP is a first round talent. at least 3 teams thought so. Let the kid go and have his career. Trade him for a 2nd to someone and be done with it. and YES someone out there will give us a 2nd for JP.

[Patrick76777]

No screw you and all the JP haters. Let the kid have is career. All he did was come in and bust his ass. His reward is ******ed fans talking sh@! about him and ripping him to shreads, a moron for a HC that pulls him to try and save his own job...then QUITS, and assclown team mates only worried about themselfs.

The kid deserves his shot and it won't be in Buffalo
What exactly is your relationship to JP? Brother, Cousin, Mother?

[justasportsfan]

I like Jp and hope he stays. He'll be a great Qb. It isn't his fault he didn't develop the right way. The kid has the tools but had a tool for a coach.

[ICE74129]

What exactly is your relationship to JP? Brother, Cousin, Mother?

It's called being a coach myself. I hate seeing talent get screwed over. JP has been nothing but screwed this entire year. For what? Being inexperienced? That's chicken sh@!.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I also like JP. I own his jersey. I have been one of his biggest supporters but if a better option can be brought in then I won't be pissed. There are competitions in Preseason by the way.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's called being a coach myself. I hate seeing talent get screwed over. JP has been nothing but screwed this entire year. For what? Being inexperienced? That's chicken sh@!.
I agree the last coach did screw him over for no reason!

[Patrick76777]

Then you trade JP. JP is a first round talent. at least 3 teams thought so. Let the kid go and have his career. Trade him for a 2nd to someone and be done with it. and YES someone out there will give us a 2nd for JP.

What if I don't want to give up on him yet. what If I just don't think he's ready but at the same time didn't drink the “QB’s have to play for 5 years to learn to be good” Kool-aid. What if I think that another year of growing up and maturing on the sidelines is what he needs? Then I wouldn’t want to trade him just yet.

It doesn’t need to be A. Play him now or B. Trade him now! There is another option.

[EricStratton]

I agree the last coach did screw him over for no reason!



And he's gone now so JP looks like he has a clean slate. If the new staff looks at film and thinks he has the goods he will have a chance to start but at this point this staff doesn't owe him a thing.

[justasportsfan]

JP has more talent than Brady. Brady had the right coaches that could put his brain in the proper place to make the right decisions. Jp had a coach who thought a rookie wr who just came off having a broken wrist play qb.

[lordofgun]

You are dead on about JP, ICE! DEAD ON! :bf1:

[EricStratton]

JP has more talent than Brady.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

JP has been plagued with a bad HC and OC and hopefully that hasn't hurt him in the long term but he has a ways to go to get to Brady's level.

[lordofgun]

I can't believe there are actually fans who already say screw JP. Ridiculous and shows their lack of patience. 99% of all QBs need more than 8 games to be an effective starter.

If Holcomb is the starter this year, I will not watch. I'd rather watch my fantasy football team players. At least there, in my own little world, I have a chance to win.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I couldn't handle Holcomb again.....

[justasportsfan]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

JP has been plagued with a bad HC and OC and hopefully that hasn't hurt him in the long term but he has a ways to go to get to Brady's level.
I meant physical talent which is why i talked about Brady's brain. From waht I've seen, JP can make any of Brady's throws and definitely scramble better than Brady. Brady is however one of the best mentally gifted qb's out there with a coach who knew how to make use of that brain. I have no doubt that Weiss could've made JP look like a god.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

JP has been plagued with a bad HC and OC and hopefully that hasn't hurt him in the long term but he has a ways to go to get to Brady's level.
Agreed. I am hoping he puts it together this year!

[lordofgun]

I would actually say the opposite...without Brady, Belichick would have ZERO championships.

[Patrick76777]

JP has more talent than Brady. Brady had the right coaches that could put his brain in the proper place to make the right decisions. Jp had a coach who thought a rookie wr who just came off having a broken wrist play qb.


I could never agree with this!

[Patrick76777]

I can't believe there are actually fans who already say screw JP.




At least I know that I never said that in this thread.

[justasportsfan]

I would actually say the opposite...without Brady, Belichick would have ZERO championships.It goes both ways. Weiss knew what plays Brady could pull off. A different coach like let's say......Malarkey would've put Brady in a situation to fail badly.

[lordofgun]

It goes both ways. Weiss knew what plays Brady could pull off. A different coach like let's say......Malarkey would've put Brady in a situation to fail badly.
Agreed.

[Ickybaluky]

There is more to talent than how hard you throw and how fast your run. Akili Smith had more talent than Brady as well, by your definition.

How do you classify the ability to read and break down a defense? To maintain poise under pressure? To understand what needs to be done to win the game and execute under pressure? To get rid of the ball quickly?

I don't know if J.P. can play or not, and would agree he didn't have the greatest of circumstances last year. I think more than coaching, it had to do with a lack of protection. In the end, he will be able to play or not, but it will be on him not anyone else.

[justasportsfan]

There is more to talent than how hard you throw and how fast your run. Akili Smith had more talent than Brady as well, by your definition.

How do you classify the ability to read and break down a defense? To maintain poise under pressure? To understand what needs to be done to win the game and execute under pressure? To get rid of the ball quickly?

.you misread my post and then broke down my post with better wording. Point is, Brady had coaches who pointed him the right way on top of the brain he already possessed.

[ICE74129]

I agree the last coach did screw him over for no reason!

Thurm, as a coach let me try to explain this. QB's are 100% in a vacum on their own. There is no competition. You pick a guy, you build around him. You give him 100% support. He has to know he can go out and toss a 5 int game and still have full support.

When he struggles he stays in! You MUST let him work though it. A QB looking over his shoulder is one that is NEVER successful. Too many things he needs to be thinking about and the guy behind him is NOT one of them.

Go find for me the teams that had a QB competition in camp this year. ALL sucked. and NONE of them had a clear cut starter on thier rosters. They still dont. The closest thing is Washington. And anyone knows, if not for that Defense, that is a 4-5 win team at best.

The only time you have a QB competition is like in Miami where you have 2-3 backups on your roster and you need to know which one will possibly give you the best chance to win until you find a true starter. Look for miami to work some trade this offseason and NONE of the guys you saw starting this year will get a sniff in preseason with the first string. Just watch and see. :D

[ICE74129]

At least I know that I never said that in this thread.

You're a flat liar. From page one....

"My 5th point was that I think they'll bring in a new QB.

And screw JP. Bring in the new guy, cut Holcomb and JP's the number 2 for a season. You don't do favors for players in this league."

[THATHURMANATOR]

Thurm, as a coach let me try to explain this. QB's are 100% in a vacum on their own. There is no competition. You pick a guy, you build around him. You give him 100% support. He has to know he can go out and toss a 5 int game and still have full support.

When he struggles he stays in! You MUST let him work though it. A QB looking over his shoulder is one that is NEVER successful. Too many things he needs to be thinking about and the guy behind him is NOT one of them.

Go find for me the teams that had a QB competition in camp this year. ALL sucked. and NONE of them had a clear cut starter on thier rosters. They still dont. The closest thing is Washington. And anyone knows, if not for that Defense, that is a 4-5 win team at best.

The only time you have a QB competition is like in Miami where you have 2-3 backups on your roster and you need to know which one will possibly give you the best chance to win until you find a true starter. Look for miami to work some trade this offseason and NONE of the guys you saw starting this year will get a sniff in preseason with the first string. Just watch and see. :D
I can see what you are saying.

[Patrick76777]

You're a flat liar. From page one....

"My 5th point was that I think they'll bring in a new QB.

And screw JP. Bring in the new guy, cut Holcomb and JP's the number 2 for a season. You don't do favors for players in this league."
That actually proves my point.

Log said, I can’t believe people want to say screw JP, Clearly implying that they want to give up on him.

My saying screw JP was in response to you saying that we should cut him if we don’t give him the job this year. My contention was that we’re under no obligation to do him any favors and that we should keep him as a back up and let him grow up for a year.

If we’re talking semantics, you’re right, I didn’t say the words “Screw JP” but clearly it was not said in the context that LOG was speaking of. It was in response to your contention that we owe him a shot.

So therefore, I’m clearly not a flat out liar as you claimed.

[Patrick76777]

That actually proves my point.

Log said, I can’t believe people want to say screw JP, Clearly implying that they want to give up on him.

My saying screw JP was in response to you saying that we should cut him if we don’t give him the job this year. My contention was that we’re under no obligation to do him any favors and that we should keep him as a back up and let him grow up for a year.

If we’re talking semantics, you’re right, I didn’t say the words “Screw JP” but clearly it was not said in the context that LOG was speaking of. It was in response to your contention that we owe him a shot.

So therefore, I’m clearly not a flat out liar as you claimed.

I really hate being called a liar.

[Michael82]

I can't believe there are actually fans who already say screw JP. Ridiculous and shows their lack of patience. 99% of all QBs need more than 8 games to be an effective starter.

If Holcomb is the starter this year, I will not watch. I'd rather watch my fantasy football team players. At least there, in my own little world, I have a chance to win.
Excellent post, log! This is a huge reason why I wanted Sherman. If the Bills hired Sherman, Mike Sherman would be the one that would guarantee that JP Losman is our starter this year no matter what and we would probably see an explosive offense develop. :drool:

Now we got Jauron, a guy that played musical QBs everywhere he went. I see him pulling a Mularkey if Losman struggles and that makes me sick. :ill:

Finally, Kelly Holcomb IS NOT THE ANSWER! I don't understand why they don't get it. We all get it. Why can't they? :mad:

[Typ0]

The problem was created for JP when he was handed the job. All of the veterans on the team believed they were going to win games and go somewhere....and then the coaching staff dumped our all pro QB and said JP was the hands down starter. The veterans were upset their fate lied in a guy with zero experience who didn't even have to earn the job. I can't say that I blame them.

Time will tell on JP. I could care less that he's been "handled" wrong. If the kid has the brain for it he's a professional he should be working his ass off for when he gets another opportunity. That's all there is to it.

As far as Brady goes...I think it's funny how once he gets some pressure on him he sucks.

[Typ0]

Excellent post, log! This is a huge reason why I wanted Sherman. If the Bills hired Sherman, Mike Sherman would be the one that would guarantee that JP Losman is our starter this year no matter what and we would probably see an explosive offense develop. :drool:

Now we got Jauron, a guy that played musical QBs everywhere he went. I see him pulling a Mularkey if Losman struggles and that makes me sick. :ill:

Finally, Kelly Holcomb IS NOT THE ANSWER! I don't understand why they don't get it. We all get it. Why can't they? :mad:

I really think you need to lighten up and give DJ a chance. I don't think he's ever even been on a team where one player has clearly earned the starting QB position. Just remember every time you dis DJ you are also dissing ML who said this is the best guy we could have in the job. Plus, from what I am hearing DJ has a tremendous amount of respect around the league...that is huge when it comes to getting top quality talent in here.

[Michael82]

I really think you need to lighten up and give DJ a chance. I don't think he's ever even been on a team where one player has clearly earned the starting QB position. Just remember every time you dis DJ you are also dissing ML who said this is the best guy we could have in the job. Plus, from what I am hearing DJ has a tremendous amount of respect around the league...that is huge when it comes to getting top quality talent in here.
Okay, I'll give him a chance. But I want him and the new OC to give JP Losman a chance. Something that Mularkey never did. :mad:

[ICE74129]

I really think you need to lighten up and give DJ a chance. I don't think he's ever even been on a team where one player has clearly earned the starting QB position. Just remember every time you dis DJ you are also dissing ML who said this is the best guy we could have in the job. Plus, from what I am hearing DJ has a tremendous amount of respect around the league...that is huge when it comes to getting top quality talent in here.

I can say right now I am dissing Marv Levy. he has done nothing yet as the GM to EARN our respect. I don't care Bill Polian gave him the most talented team in NFL history to work with as a HC. What will he do NOW as the GM?

So far it isn't impressive.

You are hearing a tremendous amount of respect for DJ around the league? Then why was Buffalo the only guy the last few years to give the guy a sniff? Must not be that well thought of.

Look here are the facts, this team sucks. It has since Bill Polian left. Ralph, Marv Dick whomever have to EARN The fans back. Until then they catch hell. Winning will change that. Funny thing is, I think DJ, RW and ML all actually understand that.

Earn it first THEN we get off of the orgs back. No more blind faith.

[Ickybaluky]

As far as Brady goes...I think it's funny how once he gets some pressure on him he sucks.

The pass in the Denver game was definitely a bad decision under pressure. That said, it was one pass. There is not QB in the NFL better at performing well under pressure than Brady.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How can Brady be criticized for one pass?

[Mr. Cynical]

Brady = system QB.

Now, let's get back to the topic of the thread.

There is no indication as of yet to convince me of a "win now" plan. Dick has failed as an HC and his credentials as DC are average at best. He's never had a top 10 defense. Ever. Hard to see that as a "win now" coach.

If ML is serious about winning now, then Ralph has to be ready to open the wallet. This team sucks and is nowhere near being competitve as is. He is going to have to grab a boatoad of high quality FAs (oline, dline and some dbs) to even have a chance in the next 2 years (which is my definition of "win now"). You can only win now with 1-2 great draft picks (maybe a DE) but the bulk of a win now team has to be via FA.

So, until we see what the Ivy Brain Trust does in FAcy and the draft, it will be very difficult to know if they have a shot at winning now.


My prediction, based upon ML's lack of GM experience, Ralph's cheapness and Dick's horrendous credentials, is that we bust in 3 years and "rebuild" once again.

[Ickybaluky]

Brady = system QB.

All QB = System QB.

This isn't the playground.

[Mr. Cynical]

All QB = System QB.

This isn't the playground.

:offtopic:

[Typ0]

The pass in the Denver game was definitely a bad decision under pressure. That said, it was one pass. There is not QB in the NFL better at performing well under pressure than Brady.


We've been seeing it for years now it's just not easy for opponents to achieve...


Pass rush against Brady = Brady looking like an average QB and the PATS losing.

[LtBillsFan66]

I'm all for winning now. It it means winning now.

[Meathead]

I really hate being called a liar.
ok ur ugly

[tonyc37]

First of all.Anyone who thinks theres enough talent on this team to do anything in the playoffs is nuts.There not even close to being a playoff team.To many holes and not enough cap space to fix in one year.Need to get rid veterans with a cap numbers and use the money wisely and maybe next year we would have a legit shot.

[Typ0]

We have a good core of players and plenty of opportunity to get to the playoffs next season. It's going to take some luck to win an extra game or two but it's not out of reach. The biggest thing is going to be to have a strong offseason as far as talent goes and then to get better every week during the season next year.

[The_Philster]

I've yet to see any indication that Jauron won't give JP a fair shot..unless you have no faith in JP's abilities, there's no reason whatsoever to actually believe that JP won't win the job

[Typ0]

How can Brady be criticized for one pass?

I, for one, was not criticising him for one bad pass...but the teams that have been effective at beating the pats the last five years have been in his face.

[G. Host]

Okay, I'll give him a chance. But I want him and the new OC to give JP Losman a chance. Something that Mularkey never did. :mad:

He gave him the starting role without competition like Bills did Rob Johnson which was too big of a chance. Hopefully Jauron learned that annointing him the savor no matter how many people are bowing at his altar is a mistake.

[Michael82]

He gave him the starting role without competition like Bills did Rob Johnson which was too big of a chance. Hopefully Jauron learned that annointing him the savor no matter how many people are bowing at his altar is a mistake.
:rolleyes: