For patmoran2006

[ICE74129]

I am a top Free agent. Convince me to join the Bills.

[TacklingDummy]

Im not patmoran, but would like to know what position ya play before signing u.

[ICE74129]

O line or Dline I don't care. Convince me to join the Bills.

[TacklingDummy]

O line or Dline I don't care. Convince me to join the Bills.

You're John Runyan.

Hi John, Im the Dummy who runs the Bills, we are looking to improve our o-line and would like to attain your services.

How many years and what kind of money are you looking for?

[LtFinFan66]

It's cold in Buffalo

[TacklingDummy]

It's only cold in the winter. We all know your not gonna live here full-time.

3 year's $10 Million .

[Mr. Pink]

I am not cheap and realize we need you to protect our "franchise QBs" blindside so he doesn't get killed and can have more than 3 seconds before getting creamed play after play. That way he can develop and through his development within a season or two we will be able to field a competitive franchise. A franchise that might very well land you being able to taste another championship before retirement. Mr. Runyan you would be a key integral foundation of our o-line for the next 4 seasons and as such I would be willing to compensate you in such manner. 8 million dollar signing bonus and a 4 year contract for 12 million dollars.

[patmoran2006]

I'm Pat Moran and I have to convince you to join the Bills, hmmm..

Am I Pat Moran the owner? Because if I am., let me take Ralph Wilson's place for a minute... You'd be dealing with Ron Wolffe, my general manager. My football team has sucked the better part of a decade and since I fired Donahoe, I am bringing in a GM who has experience in building a football team through BOTH FA and the draft. Plus when I signed him it gave me INSTANT CREDIBILITY to free agents around the league.

You'll probably also like playing for my head coach.. His name is Mike Sherman. Ya, I know he costed more than Dick Jauron did. But he has a proven track record and he knows how to handle a quarterback and an offense, something none of my head coaches have a clue about for the past several years. Plus I didnt really want Jauron.. Free agents around the league would have known I only hired Jauron because he was cheaper.

I have plenty of money to give you. You see the second Eric Moulds refused to take a paycut I sent him packing to the street; to show the rest of my organization and the fans a message that this is going to be a football team that plays for each other and wins football games. SO I freed up some $5 million in cap space there.

Are you an offensive tackle or guard? I can get you a spot on the left side of the football field.. I just cut Bennie Anderson and saved around $700k, though to be honest I'd have cut him if It costed me $700k <chuckles>

If you want to play defensive tackle you can play right next to ole' Sam Adams. See, I almost made a mistake and cut him but then I came to senses. YOu see, I already have him under contract for another year; the free agent DT crop is very thin and the good one available will be considerably more money than him. Plus, Sam has proved when he had big Pat playing next to him that he can dominate when he has a playing partner not named Anderson, Sape or Bannon. What do ya say?

Most of all.. Your a big time football player. I want to sign you because I want to send a message to my fans. The fans who continue to sell out football games every Sunday even though our team has basically sucked.. I want to show the fans that I am committed to doing everything in my 87-year old power to see my team win a Super Bowl before my time on this earth is passed by.

[acehole]

I will send your favorite jill over twice a week to toss your salad........

[lunatic_bills_fan]

where do I sign??

[justasportsfan]

I'm Pat Moran and I have to convince you to join the Bills, hmmm..

Am I Pat Moran the owner? Because if I am., let me take Ralph Wilson's place for a minute... You'd be dealing with Ron Wolffe, my general manager. My football team has sucked the better part of a decade and since I fired Donahoe, I am bringing in a GM who has experience in building a football team through BOTH FA and the draft. Plus when I signed him it gave me INSTANT CREDIBILITY to free agents around the league.

You'll probably also like playing for my head coach.. His name is Mike Sherman. Ya, I know he costed more than Dick Jauron did. But he has a proven track record and he knows how to handle a quarterback and an offense, something none of my head coaches have a clue about for the past several years. Plus I didnt really want Jauron.. Free agents around the league would have known I only hired Jauron because he was cheaper.

I have plenty of money to give you. You see the second Eric Moulds refused to take a paycut I sent him packing to the street; to show the rest of my organization and the fans a message that this is going to be a football team that plays for each other and wins football games. SO I freed up some $5 million in cap space there.

Are you an offensive tackle or guard? I can get you a spot on the left side of the football field.. I just cut Bennie Anderson and saved around $700k, though to be honest I'd have cut him if It costed me $700k <chuckles>

If you want to play defensive tackle you can play right next to ole' Sam Adams. See, I almost made a mistake and cut him but then I came to senses. YOu see, I already have him under contract for another year; the free agent DT crop is very thin and the good one available will be considerably more money than him. Plus, Sam has proved when he had big Pat playing next to him that he can dominate when he has a playing partner not named Anderson, Sape or Bannon. What do ya say?

Most of all.. Your a big time football player. I want to sign you because I want to send a message to my fans. The fans who continue to sell out football games every Sunday even though our team has basically sucked.. I want to show the fans that I am committed to doing everything in my 87-year old power to see my team win a Super Bowl before my time on this earth is passed by.



Runyan " Egad, I should've never asked. Instead of trying to convince me, he goes on to B1tch, b1tch and B1tch some more . Instead of trying to solve the situation, he'd rather cry over spilled milk . No thanks . I'm not playing for a crybaby. At least all is not lost. since I'm already here, I might as well head to the Canadian Ballet. Wait, he might be there crying about how much a lap dance cost. "

[The_Philster]

Mike Sherman....isn't that the guy who only got 2 head coaching interviews with all those openings? Yet around here, he was the best candidate out there. :shakeno:

[patmoran2006]

Runyan " Egad, I should've never asked. Instead of trying to convince me, he goes on to B1tch, b1tch and B1tch some more . Instead of trying to solve the situation, he'd rather cry over spilled milk . No thanks . I'm not playing for a crybaby. At least all is not lost. since I'm already here, I might as well head to the Canadian Ballet. Wait, he might be there crying about how much a lap dance cost. "

Nah, I"d just pay him top five tackle money like he's earned and be done with it.

[TacklingDummy]

Runyan is up there in years, he wouldn't get much more then 3 year $10 million dollar deal from me.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

hey pat, you are a good writer... how about you address teh same question with the real world scenario with the current administration in place.. I would be interseted in your real worl agrument to get FAs in here :)

[The_Philster]

hey pat, you are a good writer... how about you address teh same question with the real world scenario with the current administration in place.. I would be interseted in your real worl agrument to get FAs in here :)
which is, I think, what ICE was asking to see in the first place.
Bring in a top guy to a franchise that's coming off a 5-11 season, coming off 6 straight non-playoff years, and coming off a regime that was a PR embarassment on the level of Mike Brown and Bill Bidwell

[TacklingDummy]

FA is all about the money, usually. Pay them and they will come.

IMO, the draft is more important then FA anyways. You build a team thru the draft, you plug the holes in your team thru FA.

Pittsburg was built by the draft.
The Bills Super Bowl teams were built by the draft.
NE was built by the draft.

Granted they had FA pickups. But for the most part they were built by the draft.

[patmoran2006]

hey pat, you are a good writer... how about you address teh same question with the real world scenario with the current administration in place.. I would be interseted in your real worl agrument to get FAs in here :)

OK.

I"m obviously referring to Jon Runyan because at this point he's the most valuable player on the market out there to me.

And I take on the role of Marv Levy, since he is our current GM.

First my statement to Ralph...
"Mr. Wilson. This guy is a 10-year veteran, who hasnt missed a single game in nine years. He's been to multiple Pro Bowls and he has a mean streak to him.

For the past six years you had Tom as your GM. He never went out and spent the big bucks necessary to get a guy like him in here. While the big bucks to Lawyer, Sam, Takeo and London made our defense better, he never addressed our offensive line. As a result he made Drew, not mobile to begin with and JP a sitting duck in the pocket. As a result, our offense has been woeful and we've reached above .500 once in this past six years.

I know we're signing a lot of character guys who will provide us depth. But this is one spot on the line that we can't afford to get cheap and cute with. Jon will straight up spend the season knocking guys like Jason Taylor, Richard Seymour and Jonathan Vilma on their ass. If we're going to get better, we need that.

As a bonus, we have an excellent young budding tackle in Jason Peters. Having Runyan around will help his development and he'll have a Pro bowl tackle to learn from."

My offer to Jon Runyan...
"I will pay you to be on par with the top five tackles in the NFL... You've earned it. Jeff Backus was paid franchise money in Detroit and you're 10x the player he is. I'm paying you market value because frankly, we NEED you in Buffalo."

I will also pay you a nice signing bonus upfront, that way Mr. Wilson can spread the salary cap hit out over four years and afford us the money to get a nice guard to play alongside you.

With you on board, our offensive line will be better, Willis will have more holes to run through and JP might have more time in the pocket to throw the ball.

You're a big investment. But you are worth it. This franchise needs guys like you."

[ILOVEMIBILLS]

Mr. Wilson (and I) say....

You're overpaying him and not thinking with your head. Make him an offer, but don't make him one that you really can't afford. Don't forget, their will be better guys next year than this years group. Make him an offer if you think he'd sign, but don't break my bank.

[patmoran2006]

Mr. Wilson (and I) say....

You're overpaying him and not thinking with your head. Make him an offer, but don't make him one that you really can't afford. Don't forget, their will be better guys next year than this years group. Make him an offer if you think he'd sign, but don't break my bank.

In what way, shape or form.. Is paying a tackle who's a multi-Pro Bowler who's started EVERY GAME for NINE straight years, OVERPAYING!!!!!!!!!

Overpay = Giving Antwaan Randle El top five WR money when he's not a top five WR.

Market Value= Giving a guy who's CLEARLY a top five tackle in this league, top five money.

Can't Afford it? Moulds' cap wasted cap money is SITTING THERE.. YOu can sign TWO JON RUNYAN's with that cap room.

Wow.. thats all I can say..

And instead of a general assumption.. . exactly WHOM are this crop of better tackles next year in 2007 than Runyan currently is right now?

[L.A. Playa]

this thread has COSTED me to waste too much time

[patmoran2006]

I was asked a question.. and I answered it.. twice

[L.A. Playa]

If you owned the team I think it would have COSTED more than you can afford to pay for the team.

[patmoran2006]

YOu say that why?

I was asked a question by Ice.. Hence the thread "patmoran2006" and I answered it.

My approach would have been more aggressive towards two players and two players only: Runyan and Ma'ake Kemoeatu.

I think they were/are the two most important FA's out there for the Buffalo Bills and what they are trying to do. I would have paid a lot of money for them.

Runyan solidies one side of the offensive line.. and Kemo would have eaten blockers alive allowing Fletch and TKO to make a lot of plays.

After that; I have no problems with the other signings: Triplett, Davis, Reed, Royal and Bowens. I take that back.. I wouldn't have signed Royals.. THe others I like.

The Bills cap would have allowed all these signings.. no?

[L.A. Playa]

dude im busting your balls COSTED is not a word makes the post sound ignorant I neither agree or disagree with your theory, just pointing out that by using COSTED several time it distracted me from the content

[patmoran2006]

This is a message board not an english class I don't bother to run a spell and grammar check.. i can assure you when times call for it my spelling is fine.

I don't look for spelling in people's posts.. I look at what they are saying.

[ICE74129]

I'm Pat Moran and I have to convince you to join the Bills, hmmm..

Am I Pat Moran the owner? Because if I am., let me take Ralph Wilson's place for a minute... You'd be dealing with Ron Wolffe, my general manager. My football team has sucked the better part of a decade and since I fired Donahoe, I am bringing in a GM who has experience in building a football team through BOTH FA and the draft. Plus when I signed him it gave me INSTANT CREDIBILITY to free agents around the league.

You'll probably also like playing for my head coach.. His name is Mike Sherman. Ya, I know he costed more than Dick Jauron did. But he has a proven track record and he knows how to handle a quarterback and an offense, something none of my head coaches have a clue about for the past several years. Plus I didnt really want Jauron.. Free agents around the league would have known I only hired Jauron because he was cheaper.

I have plenty of money to give you. You see the second Eric Moulds refused to take a paycut I sent him packing to the street; to show the rest of my organization and the fans a message that this is going to be a football team that plays for each other and wins football games. SO I freed up some $5 million in cap space there.

Are you an offensive tackle or guard? I can get you a spot on the left side of the football field.. I just cut Bennie Anderson and saved around $700k, though to be honest I'd have cut him if It costed me $700k <chuckles>

If you want to play defensive tackle you can play right next to ole' Sam Adams. See, I almost made a mistake and cut him but then I came to senses. YOu see, I already have him under contract for another year; the free agent DT crop is very thin and the good one available will be considerably more money than him. Plus, Sam has proved when he had big Pat playing next to him that he can dominate when he has a playing partner not named Anderson, Sape or Bannon. What do ya say?

Most of all.. Your a big time football player. I want to sign you because I want to send a message to my fans. The fans who continue to sell out football games every Sunday even though our team has basically sucked.. I want to show the fans that I am committed to doing everything in my 87-year old power to see my team win a Super Bowl before my time on this earth is passed by.


Dear GM,

Thanks for taking the time to contact me. As you well know with your experience that my agents firm built a prospectus for me. This outlines all 32 teams needs in the NFL, cap room, tax rate for city, county and state. it also informs me of the local community is like, and what is there to do for my family etc.

After looking at this we sat down and looked at teams that needed me (insert position here). We also took into account the things I want for my career as a player. What I am looking for is thus....

As a top rated player in my position I want to go to a team that has the best chance of being a contender quickly. I have played on a team that has tried to compete but just can't get there. I also want to be fairly compensated for my skills.

After looking at the Bills here is the conclusion I have come to....you aren't the right team for me. The reasons are as follows...

1) You are not going to be a contender for quite some time. I appreciate you went out and got Ron Wolf an established GM and a good HC in Mike Sherman. But you are about 2 years away from where Dallas, Tampa, New England, Carolina, Settle, Minnesotta, are at this time. Playoff contenders that can use me to help get over that hump.

2) Compensation. With the numerous holes you have you can't afford me and address all of your other needs to become a contender. I am one of the top ranked (insert position here) in the league. To be fairly compensated would not be cost effective immediately for me to play for you and address my #1 need.

3) Cost of living in Buffalo. As you know we get 16 checks per year. And as you know we get taxed by each state we play in for our 8 away games. The problem here is Western New York is one of the most highly (and I believe is the highest) taxed counties in the US. New York being one of the higher taxed states as well. So you would not only need to match what (insert team here) is paying me, but offset the amount of money I am losing to the excessive taxes. In this case I would most likely be taxed less for away games than home games.

4) Location. I love the fact Buffalo has my kind of people. Hard working blue collar types that love football, But I have a family to think about. Fans seem to forget this is a family decision, as you well know, to move to a new city. After looking at the local school systems, My wife (like Marvin Lewis' wife) had concerns. Also what is there to do other than see Niagra falls for my children?

Sir I would sincerely like to thank you for the offer to come meet with you, but I have to respectfully decline. I understand your desire to sign a guy like me to help show your fanbase that you are trying. Maybe in a couple years when the Franchise is more competitive closer to being a playoff contender and more stable, we can talk again.

Sincerely,

Top Ranked Free Agent
</chuckles>

[L.A. Playa]

need to stop being so sensitive and take a joke lighten up a little

[patmoran2006]

Dear GM,

Thanks for taking the time to contact me. As you well know with your experience that my agents firm built a prospectus for me. This outlines all 32 teams needs in the NFL, cap room, tax rate for city, county and state. it also informs me of the local community is like, and what is there to do for my family etc.

After looking at this we sat down and looked at teams that needed me (insert position here). We also took into account the things I want for my career as a player. What I am looking for is thus....

As a top rated player in my position I want to go to a team that has the best chance of being a contender quickly. I have played on a team that has tried to compete but just can't get there. I also want to be fairly compensated for my skills.

After looking at the Bills here is the conclusion I have come to....you aren't the right team for me. The reasons are as follows...

1) You are not going to be a contender for quite some time. I appreciate you went out and got Ron Wolf an established GM and a good HC in Mike Sherman. But you are about 2 years away from where Dallas, Tampa, New England, Carolina, Settle, Minnesotta, are at this time. Playoff contenders that can use me to help get over that hump.

2) Compensation. With the numerous holes you have you can't afford me and address all of your other needs to become a contender. I am one of the top ranked (insert position here) in the league. To be fairly compensated would not be cost effective immediately for me to play for you and address my #1 need.

3) Cost of living in Buffalo. As you know we get 16 checks per year. And as you know we get taxed by each state we play in for our 8 away games. The problem here is Western New York is one of the most highly (and I believe is the highest) taxed counties in the US. New York being one of the higher taxed states as well. So you would not only need to match what (insert team here) is paying me, but offset the amount of money I am losing to the excessive taxes. In this case I would most likely be taxed less for away games than home games.

4) Location. I love the fact Buffalo has my kind of people. Hard working blue collar types that love football, But I have a family to think about. Fans seem to forget this is a family decision, as you well know, to move to a new city. After looking at the local school systems, My wife (like Marvin Lewis' wife) had concerns. Also what is there to do other than see Niagra falls for my children?

Sir I would sincerely like to thank you for the offer to come meet with you, but I have to respectfully decline. I understand your desire to sign a guy like me to help show your fanbase that you are trying. Maybe in a couple years when the Franchise is more competitive closer to being a playoff contender and more stable, we can talk again.

Sincerely,

Top Ranked Free Agent
</CHUCKLES>

If Marv Levy can't sell the product, then Wilson hired the wrong salesperson.

[Mr. Pink]

If Marv Levy can't sell the product, then Wilson hired the wrong salesperson.

And if Ices' answer right there is the one I suspect he was going to give all along he's just as much of a doom and gloomer and the sky is falling person as the rest of us.

His point is basically we're an organization that's in such complete disarray that it's not Levys' fault no one will come here, because in fact, It's Mr. Wilsons' fault. He made the decisions for TD being here, allowed him complete control and that's the direction he took this organization.

We at least want the Bills to sign some of these high profile impact players so that we can view a good product on the field. You're sitting here saying there is no possible way we can even get these guys.

So you're just happy the Bills are happy to sign anyone then?

I'm completely baffled right now.

Your naysaying Ice, is worse than anyone who sits here and complains that we don't go after nor sign any top notch free agents. We at least "think" maybe misguidingly we can land some of these players. Your whole topic just proves that you don't think we can even get one of these players.

Hell, at this point in your opinion, why do we even have a team here in Buffalo anymore? For that matter why even bother supporting this team anymore?

UNREAL!

[ICE74129]

And if Ices' answer right there is the one I suspect he was going to give all along he's just as much of a doom and gloomer and the sky is falling person as the rest of us.

His point is basically we're an organization that's in such complete disarray that it's not Levys' fault no one will come here, because in fact, It's Mr. Wilsons' fault. He made the decisions for TD being here, allowed him complete control and that's the direction he took this organization.

We at least want the Bills to sign some of these high profile impact players so that we can view a good product on the field. You're sitting here saying there is no possible way we can even get these guys.

So you're just happy the Bills are happy to sign anyone then?

I'm completely baffled right now.

Your naysaying Ice, is worse than anyone who sits here and complains that we don't go after nor sign any top notch free agents. We at least "think" maybe misguidingly we can land some of these players. Your whole topic just proves that you don't think we can even get one of these players.

Hell, at this point in your opinion, why do we even have a team here in Buffalo anymore? For that matter why even bother supporting this team anymore?

UNREAL!

Let me explain this, I know NFL players. Crafts, Ostroski, McQuarters etc. They are here from around my parts. Hell MaQ and I have the same doctor.

I can tell you right now, most FA's Agents do EXACTLY what I just did. They do all the homework and develop a portfolio or prospectus for their clients. Then they narrow it down the realistic teams.

There was a ton I didn't get into. So what he hired a good GM and Good HC. We have many holes, have been crap for 6 years. Marv must overcome what TD did. That is fact. I also stated fact on the money and the taxes. I have heard from both Jerry's on the taxes in Buffalo and on the road. Hell I have seen a couple of thier paychecks! (Note I asked them If I could have just one LOL!) Ther reality of the overtaxation of WNY is real. The fact we have to overcome that, and not much to do for players families is a reality. Can it be done? Sure, just not right now.

Signing me would have hurt you more than helped AT THIS TIME. Now try to sign me next year after a couple things happen that I feel will happen and My story will possibly be different.:xmas:

BTW...He did absolutely NOTHING to convince me to come to buffalo.

[ICE74129]

Sorry that was a repost

[patmoran2006]

Let me explain this, I know NFL players. Crafts, Ostroski, McQuarters etc. They are here from around my parts. Hell MaQ and I have the same doctor.

I can tell you right now, most FA's Agents do EXACTLY what I just did. They do all the homework and develop a portfolio or prospectus for their clients. Then they narrow it down the realistic teams.

There was a ton I didn't get into. So what he hired a good GM and Good HC. We have many holes, have been crap for 6 years. Marv must overcome what TD did. That is fact. I also stated fact on the money and the taxes. I have heard from both Jerry's on the taxes in Buffalo and on the road. Hell I have seen a couple of thier paychecks! (Note I asked them If I could have just one LOL!) Ther reality of the overtaxation of WNY is real. The fact we have to overcome that, and not much to do for players families is a reality. Can it be done? Sure, just not right now.

Signing me would have hurt you more than helped AT THIS TIME. Now try to sign me next year after a couple things happen that I feel will happen and My story will possibly be different.:xmas:

BTW...He did absolutely NOTHING to convince me to come to buffalo.

Dont be stupid and start throwing out "names".. I know and have covered a hell of a lot more names than you just mentioned.. I dont throw out 'names' because I dont need to.

That's the dumbest post I've EVER seen in my entire life, and a close second is your one previous to that..

#1- If what you say is true, for you to support Marv Levy is the MOST HYPOCRITICAL thing anyone can do on this board, even your boy PHilster will have to agree on that one.. YOU LOVE Marv as GM but if he CANT SELL players on coming to Buffalo, then WHY THE HELL is he our General manager? I'd really LOVE to hear this explanation.. According to your statement he's NOT a salesmen.. It sure as hell aint because of his proven GM track record or DRAFT track record? what is he HERE for if he cant convince impact players to come to town?? Is he a F'N Organizational ORNAMENT?? You've GOT to be kidding me..

#2- For every Joe Jurevicous who will take less money to "come home". There are 20 or MORE players who will go EXACTLY where the MONEY is going! Don't be so ignorant and naive. "Cost of Living" and "Location" ?? Are you SERIOUS? THe majority of players will live in the FRUIT BELT of Buffalo for 4-5 years if it means they're going to get $3 million more from Buffalo than Baltimore.

For 90% of the NFL players out there, they are going to go where the MONEY is.. and in the case of the few where money isnt the only issue.. Its Marv Levys' JOB as GM to SELL that player on Buffalo.. If he cant, he's nothing mroe than a painting on a wall, and he shouldnt be the GM of this football team.

Even the most hardy of the "Ice" fans on here will tell you , you're a million miles off.

[BillsFever21]

Dont be stupid and start throwing out "names".. I know and have covered a hell of a lot more names than you just mentioned.. I dont throw out 'names' because I dont need to.

That's the dumbest post I've EVER seen in my entire life, and a close second is your one previous to that..

#1- If what you say is true, for you to support Marv Levy is the MOST HYPOCRITICAL thing anyone can do on this board, even your boy PHilster will have to agree on that one.. YOU LOVE Marv as GM but if he CANT SELL players on coming to Buffalo, then WHY THE HELL is he our General manager? I'd really LOVE to hear this explanation.. According to your statement he's NOT a salesmen.. It sure as hell aint because of his proven GM track record or DRAFT track record? what is he HERE for if he cant convince impact players to come to town?? Is he a F'N Organizational ORNAMENT?? You've GOT to be kidding me..

#2- For every Joe Jurevicous who will take less money to "come home". There are 20 or MORE players who will go EXACTLY where the MONEY is going! Don't be so ignorant and naive. "Cost of Living" and "Location" ?? Are you SERIOUS? THe majority of players will live in the FRUIT BELT of Buffalo for 4-5 years if it means they're going to get $3 million more from Buffalo than Baltimore.

For 90% of the NFL players out there, they are going to go where the MONEY is.. and in the case of the few where money isnt the only issue.. Its Marv Levys' JOB as GM to SELL that player on Buffalo.. If he cant, he's nothing mroe than a painting on a wall, and he shouldnt be the GM of this football team.

Even the most hardy of the "Ice" fans on here will tell you , you're a million miles off.

Other crap teams like Cleveland and Arizona are even able to get people to play for them. If you show them the money they will come.

And now all we need is another guy like Ice around trying to say he has all this inside info and are friends with all these different NFL people when in reality is nothing but full of crap.

He's already been run off of every other Bills message board out there and didn't have any respect.

You would think some big time NFL inside executive who is "in" with all these people would be wanted by everyone though. Every board would want somebody with inside info to help them out.

I rememeber this guy from The Stadium Wall. Every other week he would have a different opinion. One week a certain player/coach would be great. The next week they suck and we need to get rid of them. Then they are good again and then suck again. You get my drift.

[The_Philster]

even your boy PHilster .excuse me? :huh: :rolleyes: Dude, if you're gonna complain about getting attacked, attacking back at others isn't going to win any battles. It's only gonna make you look like the real problem

[Mitchy moo]

O line or Dline I don't care. Convince me to join the Bills.

How about Marv's charm?

[patmoran2006]

Other crap teams like Cleveland and Arizona are even able to get people to play for them. If you show them the money they will come.

And now all we need is another guy like Ice around trying to say he has all this inside info and are friends with all these different NFL people when in reality is nothing but full of crap.

He's already been run off of every other Bills message board out there and didn't have any respect.

You would think some big time NFL inside executive who is "in" with all these people would be wanted by everyone though. Every board would want somebody with inside info to help them out.

I rememeber this guy from The Stadium Wall. Every other week he would have a different opinion. One week a certain player/coach would be great. The next week they suck and we need to get rid of them. Then they are good again and then suck again. You get my drift.

Exactly.. If Clev and ESPECIALLY Arizona, mired in a franchise-long history of mediocrity or worse.. Can sell some of these impact players, then should we..As far as the cost of living and location.. I know Cleveland one of my best friends live there.. Its NO PRETTIER than Buffalo, trust me.

I'm not even talking $35-40 million contacts like Edge and Bentley They're TOO expensive and I WOULDNT pay that money either.

I"m talking Runyan and Neal.. Two bad azz dudes who will knock Dolphins, Pats and Jets silly all over the field.

I like Jauron, believe it or not.. Get him some fat talented linemen and he'll do good things... I LOVE this coaching staff believe it or not, even though I am a "whiner" it the BEST staff as a whole we've had since Marv left as coach.

I think Jauron can win with some talent.. I dont buy into his crap record in Chicago.. BUT, he's no Saban or Parcels. He NEEDS the weapons.. It's The job of the people ABOVE him to get it! Give the guy a chance to be successful.

[patmoran2006]

excuse me? :huh: :rolleyes: Dude, if you're gonna complain about getting attacked, attacking back at others isn't going to win any battles. It's only gonna make you look like the real problem

My apologies to you.. It was actually a back handed compliment, meaning at least to ME anyways, you make some sense when we disagree on a topic.

[BlackMetalNinja]

SO... if I'm reading all this right, basically ICE and Philster think we have no chance at ever signing a decent free agent... yet both think we're obviously still going to get better and do just fine then? Certainly makes a lot of sense to me...

[patmoran2006]

SO... if I'm reading all this right, basically ICE and Philster think we have no chance at ever signing a decent free agent... yet both think we're obviously still going to get better and do just fine then? Certainly makes a lot of sense to me...

NO.. PHil had nothing to do with this.. That was self admitted stupidity on my end to include him among Ice's statement.

[The_Philster]

SO... if I'm reading all this right, basically ICE and Philster think we have no chance at ever signing a decent free agent... yet both think we're obviously still going to get better and do just fine then? Certainly makes a lot of sense to me...
where did I say anything like that? :huh: A free agent is going to take some convincing to come in here, though..and Marv's job in trying to do that is a tough one. It's not always all about the money...especially with the older players who want that Super Bowl Ring before they're too old to play anymore.

[patmoran2006]

Comes down to the draft and what we view in regards to team development.

I think everyone knows the draft is important... But you CANT build a team by a draft, imo.. 10-15 years ago absolutely.. but not today..

We can draft 2-3 STUDS right now.. But at the end of the day, when their 4 year rookie contract is up they're going somewhere else. if they dont get piz-aid...

YOU have to find a mix a both.. In today's NFL, especially with the CBA the way it is now.. YOu have NO chance if you dont DRAFT WELL AND sign a few impact free agents, especially when your in the top half of the league in regards to the salary cap, as we are now

[ICE74129]

Dont be stupid and start throwing out "names".. I know and have covered a hell of a lot more names than you just mentioned.. I dont throw out 'names' because I dont need to.

That's the dumbest post I've EVER seen in my entire life, and a close second is your one previous to that..

#1- If what you say is true, for you to support Marv Levy is the MOST HYPOCRITICAL thing anyone can do on this board, even your boy PHilster will have to agree on that one.. YOU LOVE Marv as GM but if he CANT SELL players on coming to Buffalo, then WHY THE HELL is he our General manager? I'd really LOVE to hear this explanation.. According to your statement he's NOT a salesmen.. It sure as hell aint because of his proven GM track record or DRAFT track record? what is he HERE for if he cant convince impact players to come to town?? Is he a F'N Organizational ORNAMENT?? You've GOT to be kidding me..

#2- For every Joe Jurevicous who will take less money to "come home". There are 20 or MORE players who will go EXACTLY where the MONEY is going! Don't be so ignorant and naive. "Cost of Living" and "Location" ?? Are you SERIOUS? THe majority of players will live in the FRUIT BELT of Buffalo for 4-5 years if it means they're going to get $3 million more from Buffalo than Baltimore.

For 90% of the NFL players out there, they are going to go where the MONEY is.. and in the case of the few where money isnt the only issue.. Its Marv Levys' JOB as GM to SELL that player on Buffalo.. If he cant, he's nothing mroe than a painting on a wall, and he shouldnt be the GM of this football team.

Even the most hardy of the "Ice" fans on here will tell you , you're a million miles off.



You are 100% incorrect on all counts. I don't care who you covered, I am telling you what I saw first hand in negotiations for two former Bills players.

What happened pat is you have been owned. I gave a well thought out post, with nothing but 100% fact. You? Name calling and bashing.

What I stated was fact. Marv has an uphill battle for FA's until we show some progress. As for as going where the money is, You must greatly overpay and that is bad business.

[ICE74129]

And you have still yet to convince me a Free agent on coming to buffalo. Paying a RT on the downside of his career like a top 5 Tackle? Dallas didn't. They gave him an average contract and he went. Why? They are closer to being a playoff team than Buffalo. Why not Tampa? Who knows, I didn't see the contract offer Tampa made. My guess it was less than Dallas. But hey, you would pay the guy top 5 money...

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

You are 100% incorrect on all counts. I don't care who you covered, I am telling you what I saw first hand in negotiations for two former Bills players.

What happened pat is you have been owned. I gave a well thought out post, with nothing but 100% fact. You? Name calling and bashing.

What I stated was fact. Marv has an uphill battle for FA's until we show some progress. As for as going where the money is, You must greatly overpay and that is bad business.

Ice, I believe what you are saying is that we are in a catch 22 situation... no FA till we start to improve but we cant improve till we get some quality FAs....

So by my reconning, we are therefore going to need to OVERPAY a few free agents to convice them to come here... basicly make the deal TOO good to pass up... then we get better, then we can attract more quality FA with more reasonable costs....

Hows that sound? Kinda painful at first when we have to pay stupid money, but it will all even out in the end as we win the SB :)

[ICE74129]

Ice, I believe what you are saying is that we are in a catch 22 situation... no FA till we start to improve but we cant improve till we get some quality FAs....

So by my reconning, we are therefore going to need to OVERPAY a few free agents to convice them to come here... basicly make the deal TOO good to pass up... then we get better, then we can attract more quality FA with more reasonable costs....

Hows that sound? Kinda painful at first when we have to pay stupid money, but it will all even out in the end as we win the SB :)

That is pretty much it but folks forget, mid tier FA's that fit a particular system can be VERY effective. Not only that we finally have set systems, and ones that are proven to work. We have coaches that seem to get it, and seem to be the types players like to play for. 1/2 the battle is won if that is the case.

Now go out and draft well and the rest will fall into place.

[Mr. Pink]

That is pretty much it but folks forget, mid tier FA's that fit a particular system can be VERY effective. Not only that we finally have set systems, and ones that are proven to work. We have coaches that seem to get it, and seem to be the types players like to play for. 1/2 the battle is won if that is the case.

Now go out and draft well and the rest will fall into place.

Question? And call me stupid, naive, dumb, a dolt, whatever...But what exactly is this system? In your humble opinion. I'm just trying to understand better why it seems all we are able to sign is mid tier FAs.

[dplus47]

1) You are not going to be a contender for quite some time. I appreciate you went out and got Ron Wolf an established GM and a good HC in Mike Sherman. But you are about 2 years away from where Dallas, Tampa, New England, Carolina, Settle, Minnesotta, are at this time. Playoff contenders that can use me to help get over that hump.

2) Compensation. With the numerous holes you have you can't afford me and address all of your other needs to become a contender. I am one of the top ranked (insert position here) in the league. To be fairly compensated would not be cost effective immediately for me to play for you and address my #1 need.

3) Cost of living in Buffalo. As you know we get 16 checks per year. And as you know we get taxed by each state we play in for our 8 away games. The problem here is Western New York is one of the most highly (and I believe is the highest) taxed counties in the US. New York being one of the higher taxed states as well. So you would not only need to match what (insert team here) is paying me, but offset the amount of money I am losing to the excessive taxes. In this case I would most likely be taxed less for away games than home games.

4) Location. I love the fact Buffalo has my kind of people. Hard working blue collar types that love football, But I have a family to think about. Fans seem to forget this is a family decision, as you well know, to move to a new city. After looking at the local school systems, My wife (like Marvin Lewis' wife) had concerns. Also what is there to do other than see Niagra falls for my children?




#'s 2 & 3 are both financial objections, which pat seems to have answered pre-emptively by offering top 5 tackle money with his runyan example.

#1 fails to take into account the huge jump the salary cap will take next year. in addition, teams have become very good at structuring contracts in order to maximize their talent on the field. if the bills are incapable of this, they have big problems.

i know nothing about the public schools in WNY, but many people making large salaries can afford private schools if they have problems with the public schools. if it were truly all about the kids, most FA's would stay in the same place until the kids finish high school, because moving to a new city can be traumatic for a kid of any age.

i don't think anybody is "owning" anybody with these arguments. people are showing their unwillingness to appear even slightly "wrong."

[The_Philster]

But what exactly is this system? He's talking about the offensive and defensive systems being installed by our new coordinators

[Mr. Pink]

He's talking about the offensive and defensive systems being installed by our new coordinators

And that system is what exactly?
And how do these new guys they're bringing in fit it?

[ICE74129]

#'s 2 & 3 are both financial objections, which pat seems to have answered pre-emptively by offering top 5 tackle money with his runyan example.

#1 fails to take into account the huge jump the salary cap will take next year. in addition, teams have become very good at structuring contracts in order to maximize their talent on the field. if the bills are incapable of this, they have big problems.

i know nothing about the public schools in WNY, but many people making large salaries can afford private schools if they have problems with the public schools. if it were truly all about the kids, most FA's would stay in the same place until the kids finish high school, because moving to a new city can be traumatic for a kid of any age.

i don't think anybody is "owning" anybody with these arguments. people are showing their unwillingness to appear even slightly "wrong."

Offering top 5 money again shows why he is wrong. The player isn't worth it, and by paying it we can't address other needs. That was one of my statements. And there is not a 'huge' salary cap increase. 7 mill is just a couple mill more than the average of 5 mill per that has been happening.

Schools are an issue with FA's.

And I am not wrong.

[The_Philster]

And that system is what exactly?Well, a cover-2 system on the defense...and the system that Fairchild is installing on the offense. Other than getting the playbooks, I don't know any way to make it any simpler than that.

And how do these new guys they're bringing in fit it?:huh:I'm not sure what you're asking..Tripplett will play DT in the Cover 2 scheme

[Mr. Pink]

Well, a cover-2 system on the defense...and the system that Fairchild is installing on the offense. Other than getting the playbooks, I don't know any way to make it any simpler than that.:huh:I'm not sure what you're asking..Tripplett will play DT in the Cover 2 scheme

I do agree with the Tripplett signing, I understand the defensive philosophy....I don't fully agree with not getting other better players but I get it.

What I don't get is whatever the heck the offensive philosophy is supposed to be? Offensive line other than the offered tendered to Wells has been completely neglected this offseason as far as anyone can attest to and from what we know. Do we plan on running nothing more than 5 yard outs and ins and dink and dump up the field? Do we expect Willis to trudge through every game of the week and get pounded for another year? As far as we know Moulds is gone, without a competent replacement, do we really expect Josh Reed to be anything more than what he's shown already? The best blocker we brought in was a TE...maybe we plan on shifting him to RT seeing we did the same thing with Peters. We want to build or at least I think we do around the three center pieces of the offense, JP, Willis and Lee. But we do nothing to protect JP from getting killed, nothing to open holes for Willis and give Losman no time to throw to Lee by putting competent blockers on the front line.

You're confused by my question....trust me I'm just as confused by the offensive philosophy because in all honesty it seems there is none.

And to directly go with philosophy based on one players signing, the Bills sign Davis, which yes while healthy, he's good, problem is he's never healthy. But at most he's a 3rd or 4th receiver. So if Reed weren't to be resigned this move makes sense, but couple it with Reed resigning it makes no sense. Then by signing Davis resigning Reed makes absolutely no sense.

Confused as much as I am?

[The_Philster]

If Moulds is gone, we better hope that Davis is starting caliber..because I have little faith in Reed ever being anything more than a slot WR. We had one glimpse into a future without Moulds and it wasn't pretty

[ICE74129]

Well, a cover-2 system on the defense...and the system that Fairchild is installing on the offense. Other than getting the playbooks, I don't know any way to make it any simpler than that.:huh:I'm not sure what you're asking..Tripplett will play DT in the Cover 2 scheme

Fairchild is going to run a version of the St. Louis offense. This is a 3 wide base set with a single back. Routes are ran in the medium range to keep the linbackers and DB's from cheating to stop the run. These are predicated on 5 step drops.

the Pass will be used to set up the run. By going 3 wide with no FB we still have no less than 6 blockers for the run game (not including Reed in the slot so that is 7). This allows a back like Willis (who is a one cut and go) back to hit the hole and penetrate the LOS more quickly.

[kgun12]

Dear GM,

Thanks for taking the time to contact me. As you well know with your experience that my agents firm built a prospectus for me. This outlines all 32 teams needs in the NFL, cap room, tax rate for city, county and state. it also informs me of the local community is like, and what is there to do for my family etc.

After looking at this we sat down and looked at teams that needed me (insert position here). We also took into account the things I want for my career as a player. What I am looking for is thus....

As a top rated player in my position I want to go to a team that has the best chance of being a contender quickly. I have played on a team that has tried to compete but just can't get there. I also want to be fairly compensated for my skills.

After looking at the Bills here is the conclusion I have come to....you aren't the right team for me. The reasons are as follows...

1) You are not going to be a contender for quite some time. I appreciate you went out and got Ron Wolf an established GM and a good HC in Mike Sherman. But you are about 2 years away from where Dallas, Tampa, New England, Carolina, Settle, Minnesotta, are at this time. Playoff contenders that can use me to help get over that hump.

2) Compensation. With the numerous holes you have you can't afford me and address all of your other needs to become a contender. I am one of the top ranked (insert position here) in the league. To be fairly compensated would not be cost effective immediately for me to play for you and address my #1 need.

3) Cost of living in Buffalo. As you know we get 16 checks per year. And as you know we get taxed by each state we play in for our 8 away games. The problem here is Western New York is one of the most highly (and I believe is the highest) taxed counties in the US. New York being one of the higher taxed states as well. So you would not only need to match what (insert team here) is paying me, but offset the amount of money I am losing to the excessive taxes. In this case I would most likely be taxed less for away games than home games.

4) Location. I love the fact Buffalo has my kind of people. Hard working blue collar types that love football, But I have a family to think about. Fans seem to forget this is a family decision, as you well know, to move to a new city. After looking at the local school systems, My wife (like Marvin Lewis' wife) had concerns. Also what is there to do other than see Niagra falls for my children?

Sir I would sincerely like to thank you for the offer to come meet with you, but I have to respectfully decline. I understand your desire to sign a guy like me to help show your fanbase that you are trying. Maybe in a couple years when the Franchise is more competitive closer to being a playoff contender and more stable, we can talk again.

Sincerely,

Top Ranked Free Agent
</chuckles>

This is pure crap and now I know why some of you defend this FO the way you do. You really believe the players care about the above crap? LMAO! The players don't give a ratsass about anything but money. Nothing else matters, period! Why do you think guys go from Buffalo to Miami or KC to Denver or Dever to Oakland? It's the freakin money. Why does Hutchinson go from the Super Bowl runner up to the Vikings that have more off field problems then the Bills on field problems. T. Thomas to Miami? How many times have you heard a player who has been on a team 5,6, 7 or even longer say when asked what's it gonna take to keep youin (fill in the Team) and his answer ALWAYS is well I just want to be respected, I don't need to be the highest paid playe in the league, but show me you respect what I do. @ day into FA he signs with another team and is the highest paid at that position and turn down 1 million less fom his old team!

If 7 teams were in the running for TO like Rosenjerk said, why did TO go to the Cowboys, who he HATED almost as much as the Cowboy fans HATE him. (Listen to Dallas talk radio today!).

5 MIL and a 5 MIL signing bonus!!! Don't you think if Denver offered him 6 mil and a 6 mil bonus he would be playing for them right now!

[kgun12]

Offering top 5 money again shows why he is wrong. The player isn't worth it, and by paying it we can't address other needs. That was one of my statements. And there is not a 'huge' salary cap increase. 7 mill is just a couple mill more than the average of 5 mill per that has been happening.

Schools are an issue with FA's.

And I am not wrong.

You are wrong!

Name me ONE player who has said that he signed with team X because of the school, taxes snow or whatever. Case in point Pat Williams LOVED the Buffalo area, he went to Minny for the money! Look at all the former players that still live in this area! Again FA is all about the money, cause it talks Bulls**** walks!

[ICE74129]

You are wrong!

Name me ONE player who has said that he signed with team X because of the school, taxes snow or whatever. Case in point Pat Williams LOVED the Buffalo area, he went to Minny for the money! Look at all the former players that still live in this area! Again FA is all about the money, cause it talks Bulls**** walks!

I have seen these types of prospectus' and talked with players during thier FA tenures. And YES all of the above do count if married. Single guys it is about WINNING and Money both.

[Bill Brasky]

Mike Sherman....isn't that the guy who only got 2 head coaching interviews with all those openings? Yet around here, he was the best candidate out there. :shakeno:

Phil, what makes Jauron more qualified than Sherman? I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

I didn't like either candidate, but I would have prefered Sherman over Jauron, as I've said.

[The_Philster]

Phil, what makes Jauron more qualified than Sherman? I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

I didn't like either candidate, but I would have prefered Sherman over Jauron, as I've said.
I'm not privy to what the GMs and owners know about the 2 of them so I can't say. I am on record as having hoped we'd get Sherman...because he seemed like the best of a poor crop of candidates. The GMs and owners doing the hiring around the league must've known something was wrong with Sherman...why else would he have gotten exactly 2 head coaching interviews?

[Bill Brasky]

I'm not privy to what the GMs and owners know about the 2 of them so I can't say. I am on record as having hoped we'd get Sherman...because he seemed like the best of a poor crop of candidates. The GMs and owners doing the hiring around the league must've known something was wrong with Sherman...why else would he have gotten exactly 2 head coaching interviews?

I don't think it was a matter of them "knowing something we didn't". And, if I remember correctly, Sherman sort of hung in the balance up in GB (I don't remember him getting fired right after the last game like many coaches did but I could be wrong) while many other teams went out relatively quickly to fill coaching vacancies.

I think a lot of teams went into the coaching market already knowing who and what they needed to target. Outside of Oakland, I think the Bills were the only other team without a hard target or any idea of who to go after, which is why the ended up bringing in Sherman for an interview.

The Jauron hiring didn't, and still doesn't sit well with me. I just don't think he can get this team where it needs to be with what he will be given to work with. I hope he proves me wrong though.

[dplus47]

Offering top 5 money again shows why he is wrong. The player isn't worth it, and by paying it we can't address other needs. That was one of my statements. And there is not a 'huge' salary cap increase. 7 mill is just a couple mill more than the average of 5 mill per that has been happening.

Schools are an issue with FA's.

And I am not wrong.

i put "wrong" in quotes because i don't think there is a right/wrong answer here. if there were one, nobody here would be so foolish as to expect you to admit you were on the wrong side.

anyway, at some point in this thread, you slipped out of the role you created for yourself. i thought you were the player whom pat was supposed to convince to come to buffalo. now you're talking about the team and organization as if you're part of it. anyway, sorry, i'm in hollywood, and i notice when people don't stay in character.

you listed 4 reasons why you (the prospective free agent) weren't coming: 2 were money and money, 1 was something that any GM with a good cap guy can get around (how can you afford other players), and 1 was an issue that can be overcome, unless there are no good private or public schools in the WNY area.

you should change the title of the thread to "for ICE," because the only person you're listening to (reading/comprehending) is yourself.

[dplus47]

if $7 million isn't a "huge" increase in cap space, i guess you'll be happy carrying eric moulds' contract into next year. that's a lot of space if you're good at structuring contracts. there are other teams who are signing people, and some of them went into FA with a worse cap situation than buffalo.

[patmoran2006]

i put "wrong" in quotes because i don't think there is a right/wrong answer here. if there were one, nobody here would be so foolish as to expect you to admit you were on the wrong side.

anyway, at some point in this thread, you slipped out of the role you created for yourself. i thought you were the player whom pat was supposed to convince to come to buffalo. now you're talking about the team and organization as if you're part of it. anyway, sorry, i'm in hollywood, and i notice when people don't stay in character.

you listed 4 reasons why you (the prospective free agent) weren't coming: 2 were money and money, 1 was something that any GM with a good cap guy can get around (how can you afford other players), and 1 was an issue that can be overcome, unless there are no good private or public schools in the WNY area.

you should change the title of the thread to "for ICE," because the only person you're listening to (reading/comprehending) is yourself.


Thank you very much.

[patmoran2006]

Offering top 5 money again shows why he is wrong. The player isn't worth it, and by paying it we can't address other needs. That was one of my statements. And there is not a 'huge' salary cap increase. 7 mill is just a couple mill more than the average of 5 mill per that has been happening.

Schools are an issue with FA's.

And I am not wrong.

Paying a top five tackle , TOP five money isn't worth it exactly how? Paying someone on the "downside" of his career that just happened to make ANOTHER Pro Bowl. Paying someone on the "downside" who is still ranked among almost everyone's top ten list.. Paying someone who is a complete warrior who hasn't missed a game in nine years.

Most of all, paying SOMEONE TOP FIVE TACKLE MONEY BECAUSE the Buffalo Bills have a JOKE of an OFFENSIVE line AND they have the MONEY To afford it.. THAT's HOW.

Jeff Backus isn't in Runyan's LEAGUE yet he was franchised by the Lions and paid top five tackle money.. Even Matt Millen gets it. WHy can't you?