The reason we 'reached' for Whitner

[YardRat]

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/BUF/9435918



Buffalo allowed a whopping 48 pass plays of 20 or more yards, and their last-place rankings on third down and in the red zone were mainly the result of being burned through the air at critical junctures.

Improving the secondary was a prime consideration this off-season for new general manager Marv Levy and coach Dick Jauron, who added six new players to the mix: free agents Matt Bowen, Kiwaukee Thomas and James Bethea and draft choices Donte Whitner, Ashton Youboty and Ko Simpson.

They join a list of returning players that includes starting corners Nate Clements and Terrence McGee, free safety Troy Vincent and reserves Jabari Greer, Eric King, Rashad Baker, Rob Lee, Coy Wire and Jim Leonhard.

The key upgrade is at safety.

Whitner, the No. 8 overall pick in the draft, will replace Lawyer Milloy at strong safety, giving Buffalo a big hitter with speed and more versatility in implementing schemes. Simpson and Bowen add depth to the position.

As good as Milloy was, the four-time Pro Bowler had slowed down considerably.

After analyzing game tape of last season, new Bills defensive coordinator Perry Fewell could sympathize with what predecessor Jerry Gray was up against.

"As I looked at it last year, Lawyer was always sitting in the box," he said. "Looking at it, that's an eight-man front, maybe they're going to blitz. Now we're interchangeable. (Whitner and Simpson) give us flexibility. Both guys can cover. From a look, disguise (standpoint), we've gotten better with those additions."

[Night Train]

People have to realize that Milloy was NEVER a cover safety in his life. He was a in-the-box safety who played like a 4th LB. He never had speed. When asked to drop back and cover, he was out of his element. He had to go this off-season, once the Cover 2 was announced.

Whitner and Simpson both have great speed and cover ability. The age of the hybrid safety has arrived.

[John Doe]

That could be why Clements had to play 10 yards off the reciever that he was covering.

Nobody had his back.

[jamze132]

That could be why Clements had to play 10 yards off the reciever that he was covering.

Nobody had his back.
He won't need to anymore. He can bump the receiver off his route and in turn allow more time for the D-line to get penetration.

[ICE74129]

So instead of getting Bunkley to stop the run and pressure the passer, we get a Safety? Its the LINES that make for a better secondary. But hey, Come september it will all play out.

[MikeInRoch]

Yeah, if we had Bunkley, we could put college players back there and be ok. Because all that really matters is the line.:rolleyes:

[Mr. Pink]

It's a combination of the two....more pass rush and consistent pass rush helps the secondary as does players that fit your system. Thing is with a more consistent pass rush you can have average NFL safeties and be ok. If you don't have an adequate pass rush, you can have steve atwater and ronnie lott back there and it wouldn't matter.

[patmoran2006]

I agree with "Fun"..
It goes hand in hand, a better pass rush makes a secondary better.

However, I agree with the Whitner pick and this is the biggest reason why:

I think the Bills will have a better pass rush this year. Tripplett and McCargo in passing downs will be much better than Anderson/Bannon/Adams. They're strength is getting after the quarterback. Couple that with the hopeful/expected return of Spikes and I think our pass rush will be much improved over last year.

However, the weakness/question is going to be being able to contain the run on first down. No defense can be consistently effective when they're facing 3rd and 2, 10 times per game.

Whitner from everything I've seen and heard is an outstanding cover safety. Along with a new scheme in the secondary, I think the pass defense will be much improved.

And again, when teams have to pass, the combo of Triplett and McCargo is an upgrade over the DT's who played here last year.

[Don't Panic]

This was my favorite quote from the article:

"Clements, Buffalo's franchise player, is on board for one more season and likely won't be retained beyond 2006 given the money involved. Youboty has the potential to take his place in the starting lineup, and Simpson will eventually supplant 15-year veteran Vincent, who will be a good mentor."

Not that I'll be entirely thrilled to see Clements go, but this is a sound plan both logistically and financially and it puts our secondary in a very good position for the long-term. I esspecially like the Vincent-Simpson tutoring situation. Is there a better tutor out there for a young, talented safety?

[justasportsfan]

So instead of getting Bunkley to stop the run and pressure the passer, we get a Safety? Its the LINES that make for a better secondary. But hey, Come september it will all play out.we got McCargo. What is it you don't understand?

[patmoran2006]

In his book, McCargo doesnt even count because he's not going to "start".

For someone who "knows so much about football", he fails to understand that the Bears and Colts have such effective front fours because they ROTATE their DT's in and out of the game.. Larry Tripplett technically wasn't even a "starter", yet no problem was had when the Bills signed him.

McCargo is the 2005 Tripplett version of the Colts.. Whomever doesnt see that needs to open up their eyes.

[justasportsfan]

I will take Modraks, Levy's and Jaurons decision over Ice's any day.

[patmoran2006]

I just find it partially humorous and partially annoying/hypocritical that I lost count on how many times the "levi jones" name was thrown out there as a "reach" yet when its the BILLS that defy conventional widsom on draft day the pick gets blasted.

Levi Jones = reach who turned out to be a steal, no?
Dwight Freeney= reach who turned out to be a steal, no?

Why not Whitner?

[acehole]

So instead of getting Bunkley to stop the run and pressure the passer, we get a Safety? Its the LINES that make for a better secondary. But hey, Come september it will all play out.

This is very true...but the opposite is also true.....it is called a coverage sack. If nobody is open Shobel and company have more time to get to the qb.

[GarnOFreak]

One thing to consider is the cap. we could sign nate long term this year or still use that money to grab a decent priced DE/DT to bolster pass rush ability next year. You have to honest and say we're in a rebuilding process again(at least to a point it will take at least this year and next before we have people set to man the schemes we want to have here). The have addressed the secondary and middle of the defense this year. Next year will probably be aimed at the outside/ pass rush area moreso than this year was(unless we get a diamond in the rough to step up from no where or the Cover 2 turns Kelsay/Denney into a force).

Still just wondering if the 295 pounders are now what we want to aim for DT players, why not move Denney over to the DT rotation? There was an article(I'm sure most have read) about the suggestion of moving Posey to DE to help the Passrush as well as all the signings we have done of little known players.

p.s. never realized that Mark Word(DE from Cleve) had 8 sacks in 2003 and 4 more in 2004. was he a situational pass rusher because he was in 16 games both years and the tackle totals were really low.

[John Doe]

I esspecially like the Vincent-Simpson tutoring situation. Is there a better tutor out there for a young, talented safety?

There may well be. A former all-pro saftey named Dick Jauron.

[feelthepain]

You're better off sacking the QB with the front 7 then you are trying to land shut down CB's and probowl S's. I don't understand the thinking of the Bills draft, they could have landed Bunkely with their first pick and Winston Justice with their second and still gotten their latter picks they have now and it would have been a much better balanced draft and they would have had probabbly a top five draft, instead they get players that are good players, but waste so much future potential on players they reached for and overpaid to get.

[patmoran2006]

Is John McCargo a bum who can't get to the quarterback? Am I missing something?

[John Doe]

You're better off sacking the QB with the front 7 then you are trying to land shut down CB's and probowl S's. I don't understand the thinking of the Bills draft,

The Bills drafted 2 quick defensive linemen and signed another in free agency. The pass rush should be a lot better because of it.


... instead they get players that are good players, but waste so much future potential on players they reached for and overpaid to get.

The Bill's draft is all about future potential. All the top picks were underclassmen that would probably have been drafted even higher next year if they would have stayed in school.

I don't get your points at all.

[BuffaloBillsStampede]

I have had enough of these dolphin fans coming on here busting our draft when theres is nothing to cheer about. Jason Allen? I wouldn't be that excited over this guy. The reciever you got is ok, but nothing special. We picked up 5!!!!! potential (and most likely) defensive starters within two years. We werent going to win this year so why not build the nucleus of a strong defense this year then maybe focus on the O next year and things are looking way up. Rod Wright is a big sissy ass if you watch any of his games with Texas. He may have been worth a 7th rounder, but there is a reason he slipped to the 7th round.

[Captain Obvious]

You're better off sacking the QB with the front 7 then you are trying to land shut down CB's and probowl S's. I don't understand the thinking of the Bills draft, they could have landed Bunkely with their first pick and Winston Justice with their second and still gotten their latter picks they have now and it would have been a much better balanced draft and they would have had probabbly a top five draft, instead they get players that are good players, but waste so much future potential on players they reached for and overpaid to get.

Theres a reason Justice slipped to the 2nd Round. Character issues. And I believe Bunkley has been in trouble with the law as well. Keep telling yourself Nick Saban will change Marcus Vicks's buttwipe ways. Just like he did Ricky Williams

[ParanoidAndroid]

Rod Wright is this year's Antaaj Hawthorne....I have joked about grabbing him to add to our DT rotation....the guy was a projected 2nd rounder and some had him late 1st. He's now second on the depth chart for the Franfurt Galaxy. :snicker:

[Bling]

Rod Wright is this year's Antaaj Hawthorne....I have joked about grabbing him to add to our DT rotation....the guy was a projected 2nd rounder and some had him late 1st. He's now second on the depth chart for the Franfurt Galaxy. :snicker:

Usually what happens when you're recovering from a messed up shoulder. They want to test you against weaker talent to see how well you turn out. Then they upgrade you back.

[jamze132]

Usually what happens when you're recovering from a messed up shoulder. They want to test you against weaker talent to see how well you turn out. Then they upgrade you back.
Or if your a Dolphin, thats how they build a team.

[ICE74129]

we got McCargo. What is it you don't understand?

What I don't understand is why we drafted a rotational backup and not a starter. What don't you understand?

[feelthepain]

Theres a reason Justice slipped to the 2nd Round. Character issues. And I believe Bunkley has been in trouble with the law as well. Keep telling yourself Nick Saban will change Marcus Vicks's buttwipe ways. Just like he did Ricky Williams

The Bills need Oline help badly, yet they wait till the 5th round to draft someone. Youboty and Simpson were solid additions and more then enough to solidify the secondary, if the Bills had drafted Bunkley they would have had a guy that gets into the backfield and disrupts the play on both passing and running plays. Whitner IMO just makes no sense, he was not so good that he should have been drafted that high or by a team without the ability to put pressure on the QB.

The Bills didn't do enough in FA to solidify the Dline. The draft didn't help, you got a guy from NC state that got help from two 1st round players named Mario Williams and Manny Lawson. Bunkley is twice the player McCargo is and the Bill's again reached for a player that wasn't going to be drafted in the first round. Again it's not who the Bills drafted, it's where they drafted them.
Bunkley and Justice would have been a far better draft for the Bills then Whitner and McCargo....by lightyears!!!!

[feelthepain]

I have had enough of these dolphin fans coming on here busting our draft when theres is nothing to cheer about. Jason Allen? I wouldn't be that excited over this guy. The reciever you got is ok, but nothing special. We picked up 5!!!!! potential (and most likely) defensive starters within two years. We werent going to win this year so why not build the nucleus of a strong defense this year then maybe focus on the O next year and things are looking way up. Rod Wright is a big sissy ass if you watch any of his games with Texas. He may have been worth a 7th rounder, but there is a reason he slipped to the 7th round.


OK, let me slow things down for you so you can understand it.

Dolphins draft:

1) Jason Allen- CB/S:

Had he come out his Junior year he would have been a top 10 pick, if he didn't have the hip injury in his senior season he probably would have been a top 5 pick, nevertheless the talent still remains he just needed to prove he was healthy enough to play his combine was proof of that, it's just some teams shy away from injuries and some don't....bottom line #16 in the nation. Fins got a steal at 16.

2) Daunte Culpepper- QB:

For a second round pick WOW what a frikin steal this was, a franchise QB in his prime with #'s that rival some of the best QB's to ever play the position. Sure he's coming off a serious knee injury and a suspect season, but not one expert believes either of those issues will matter
ofcourse I agree. Especially since Daunte is doing so well in his recovery, if W.McGehee can recovery from one of the worst knee injuries I've ever seen then Daunte will be just fine.....again Steal for Miami.

3) Derek Hagan- WR:

The all time Pac 10 WR in history!!! His last three seasons at Arizona State he had 1000 yrd + rec. He's tall and his 10 yrd splits were amoung the fastest at the combine and he was also one to the best WR to have the ability to get seperation at the LOS. He was listed on most boards as the fourth best WR porspect in the 2006 draft, we got him in the 3rd round, not a steal, but very much worthy of the pick.

4) Joe Toledo- T/G:

A converted TE, he played all three positions at Washington. Many consider him a sleeper in the 2006 draft. It's been reported that Bill Parcells was not happy when we drafted Toledo as he was very much on the Cowboys radar. Parcells knows how to build an Oline. It's also been reported that Toledo was hand picked by Houck the Oline coach for the Dolphins and All he's ever done is produce the most Probowl Olinemen of any Oline coach in history, for a 4th round pick I'd say that exactly where you would draft a guy like Toledo.

5) Manny Wright- DT:

Coming out of USC he's another big body with loads of speed, perhaps could have benefited from another year in school, but there is no mistaking the raw talent, has the ability to explode off the ball and disrupt the backfield quickly, had he styed another year in school he was most definitely porjected a first rounder, we got him for a 5th in the 2005 supplemental draft. Potential to be a steal for the fins, nevertheless well woth a 5th round pick to this point.

6) Cleo Lemon- QB:

Was a trade/exchange in 05 for AJ and a 6th round pick, according to Marty Schottenheimer he was not happy when Cleo was traded to Miami he loved the kid and wanted him to remain a Charger, if there is one thing Marty understands it's the QB position, he's coached some of the best throughout his career. We get Cleo for AJ feeley and a 6th round pick. AJ's cap # was huge and by trading him we dumbed his cap figure, it was a win/win situation for the fins and we get a third string maybe backup for AJ and 6th.

7a) Fred Evans-DT

Depth

7b) Rodirque Wright-DT

Depth

7c) Devin Aromashodu - WR

Depth

It seems to me we had one hell of a draft one that rivals some of the best in the league. So just becaus you're a Bill fan it's against the law to understand the game of football outside of the Buffalo Bills?? I guess it's either that or you're un-willing to deal with the facts. Try as hard as you want you can't even come close the the Fins draft, The Bills were all over the place in this draft, seemingly without a plan drafting players that make no sense in places that made no sense.

It's not rocket science understanding where the Bills needs are and their priorities. The Bills overkilled the secondary and ignored the Oline. JP will get no help up front next year and he will look like he's out of place because the Bills did nothing to address their biggest weakness. It's said you need a D to win Championships, but you also need an Oline to win championships. If your O can keep the D off the field thats how D's win championships not by playing most of the game on D and hoping for 10 to 20 pts. a game from the O.

[Tatonka]

So instead of getting Bunkley to stop the run and pressure the passer, we get a Safety? Its the LINES that make for a better secondary. But hey, Come september it will all play out.

thanks for restating that for that 1 millionth time!
:deadhorse:

[ICE74129]

I will take Modraks, Levy's and Jaurons decision over Ice's any day.

Another bad decision by you.

[mikemac2001]

I will take Modraks, Levy's and Jaurons decision over Ice's any day.


:bf1:

[mysticsoto]

The Bills drafted 2 quick defensive linemen and signed another in free agency. The pass rush should be a lot better because of it.



The Bill's draft is all about future potential. All the top picks were underclassmen that would probably have been drafted even higher next year if they would have stayed in school.

I don't get your points at all.

What FTP is saying is that the FO didn't follow what the analysts thought they should do - therefore they must be wrong. Nevermind that the analysts don't know our team well and aren't capable of doing an inventory of the needs the team has - nor are privvy to what Marv and Jauron are trying to do.

FTP constantly repeats the same things over - b'cse he doesn't know the Bills team (or much about football in general for that matter). He constantly repeats we did nothing with the Oline in many of his posts, yet ignores that that work was done in FA. He ignores or just doesn't realize that most Oline drafted players don't play or don't play well their 1st year anyway - which may be why Levy and McNally did most of their addressing in FA. He ignores that since the start of last year, we have 3 new starters on the Oline - perhaps he or someone else can explain to me how we can have 3 new starters and still say that no work or effort was placed toward the Oline??? :idunno:

[justasportsfan]

OK, let me slow things down for you so you can understand it.


6) Cleo Lemon- QB:

Was a trade/exchange in 05 for AJ and a 6th round pick, according to Marty Schottenheimer he was not happy when Cleo was traded to Miami he loved the kid and wanted him to remain a Charger, if there is one thing Marty understands it's the QB position, he's coached some of the best throughout his career. We get Cleo for AJ feeley and a 6th round pick. AJ's cap # was huge and by trading him we dumbed his cap figure, it was a win/win situation for the fins and we get a third string maybe backup for AJ and 6th.. If Marty had his way, he'd be standing in the unemployment line with Donahoe. Butler and AJ Smith saved his butt by bringing in Brees ,Tomlinson and Gates.

Saban had so much confidence in Lemon's potential that he is making Lemon lead the team while Culp is recovering. Oh wait, my bad .I was talking about Harrington. :rolleyes:



It seems to me we had one hell of a draft one that rivals some of the best in the league. .In YOUR opinion. Best in the league. Haha!

[justasportsfan]

Another bad decision by you. My friend says not to bench her 10 yr. old son when you coach football summer camp this year.

[feelthepain]

What FTP is saying is that the FO didn't follow what the analysts thought they should do - therefore they must be wrong. Nevermind that the analysts don't know our team well and aren't capable of doing an inventory of the needs the team has - nor are privvy to what Marv and Jauron are trying to do.

FTP constantly repeats the same things over - b'cse he doesn't know the Bills team (or much about football in general for that matter). He constantly repeats we did nothing with the Oline in many of his posts, yet ignores that that work was done in FA. He ignores or just doesn't realize that most Oline drafted players don't play or don't play well their 1st year anyway - which may be why Levy and McNally did most of their addressing in FA. He ignores that since the start of last year, we have 3 new starters on the Oline - perhaps he or someone else can explain to me how we can have 3 new starters and still say that no work or effort was placed toward the Oline??? :idunno:

Or perhaps you should learn the game of football and realize that JP will never amount to squat till he gets some protection. The Bills will never win games or be competetive till they have an O that can put points on the board every game. Maybe you should look at the Bills draft and realize they drafted three guys to play in the secondary and they did nothing to address the TE position or add depth the the running game. I know what the Bills need I follow them closely just like any division rival.

Maybe what you need to realize is your Bill tinted glasses blind you from anything objective form anyone other then Bill fans or Dolphin fans that write only things that please you, like a child not getting their way. Just because you don't like what I write doesn't make it wrong. The Bills suck along the Oline, and you're gonna sit there and tell me the Bill's addressed the Oline in FA??? WITH WHO??????

Everyone and their brother was pounding the Bills draft, and you're defending it because you're a homer. This year for the Bills, was no different then last year from FA through the draft. Your team did nothing in FA with a crap load of money just waiting to be spent, your draft was slightly better this year then last, but they still didn't address their biggest needs. You say an Olinemen wont help much right out of the draft.....where you planning on being competetive this year??? I wouldn't hold your breath. The Bills have a new FO and HC, THEY ARE REBUILDING!!!!!!! They will not be competetive this year. They needed to address both lines, the O especially, they needed to address their TE position, they needed to address thei running game and they NEED A QB!!!!

It's amazing the Bills are your team and you are such a homer you refuse to accept reality. I don't know what games you're watching, but the Bills have a long ways to go and they don't need to stand around during FA and have one sided drafts to get them back into the mix in the AFC east. You just keep thinking the Bills are headed in the right direction and I'll be asking you what the Bills need next year with another top 10 pick.

[justasportsfan]

Or perhaps you should learn the game of football and realize that JP will never amount to squat till he gets some protection. The Bills will never win games or be competetive till they have an O that can put points on the board every game. Maybe you should look at the Bills draft and realize they drafted three guys to play in the secondary and they did nothing to address the TE position or add depth the the running game. I know what the Bills need I follow them closely just like any division rival.

Maybe what you need to realize is your Bill tinted glasses blind you from anything objective form anyone other then Bill fans or Dolphin fans that write only things that please you, like a child not getting their way. Just because you don't like what I write doesn't make it wrong. The Bills suck along the Oline, and you're gonna sit there and tell me the Bill's addressed the Oline in FA??? WITH WHO??????

Everyone and their brother was pounding the Bills draft, and you're defending it because you're a homer. This year for the Bills, was no different then last year from FA through the draft. Your team did nothing in FA with a crap load of money just waiting to be spent, your draft was slightly better this year then last, but they still didn't address their biggest needs. You say an Olinemen wont help much right out of the draft.....where you planning on being competetive this year??? I wouldn't hold your breath. The Bills have a new FO and HC, THEY ARE REBUILDING!!!!!!! They will not be competetive this year. They needed to address both lines, the O especially, they needed to address their TE position, they needed to address thei running game and they NEED A QB!!!!

It's amazing the Bills are your team and you are such a homer you refuse to accept reality. I don't know what games you're watching, but the Bills have a long ways to go and they don't need to stand around during FA and have one sided drafts to get them back into the mix in the AFC east. You just keep thinking the Bills are headed in the right direction and I'll be asking you what the Bills need next year with another top 10 pick.
waste of time.

[mysticsoto]

Or perhaps you should learn the game of football and realize that JP will never amount to squat till he gets some protection. The Bills will never win games or be competetive till they have an O that can put points on the board every game. Maybe you should look at the Bills draft and realize they drafted three guys to play in the secondary and they did nothing to address the TE position or add depth the the running game. I know what the Bills need I follow them closely just like any division rival.

Maybe what you need to realize is your Bill tinted glasses blind you from anything objective form anyone other then Bill fans or Dolphin fans that write only things that please you, like a child not getting their way. Just because you don't like what I write doesn't make it wrong. The Bills suck along the Oline, and you're gonna sit there and tell me the Bill's addressed the Oline in FA??? WITH WHO??????

Everyone and their brother was pounding the Bills draft, and you're defending it because you're a homer. This year for the Bills, was no different then last year from FA through the draft. Your team did nothing in FA with a crap load of money just waiting to be spent, your draft was slightly better this year then last, but they still didn't address their biggest needs. You say an Olinemen wont help much right out of the draft.....where you planning on being competetive this year??? I wouldn't hold your breath. The Bills have a new FO and HC, THEY ARE REBUILDING!!!!!!! They will not be competetive this year. They needed to address both lines, the O especially, they needed to address their TE position, they needed to address thei running game and they NEED A QB!!!!

It's amazing the Bills are your team and you are such a homer you refuse to accept reality. I don't know what games you're watching, but the Bills have a long ways to go and they don't need to stand around during FA and have one sided drafts to get them back into the mix in the AFC east. You just keep thinking the Bills are headed in the right direction and I'll be asking you what the Bills need next year with another top 10 pick.

Your post clearly shows you know nothing about the Bills - you learn barely enough to try and criticize by regurgitating what other people say. Here's something you want to pay attention to...despite the analysts criticizing the Bills' draft based on value of player for the 1st two picks, most analysts have said we have obtained QUALITY players in our 1st 5 picks. They've also said, if 2 years from now, those players are pro-bowl caliber players, nobody will remember or even mention that they were a so-called "reach" - like Dwight Freeney for the Colts who was criticized as being a reach when he was drafted!!!

As to the Oline, I already said it, we will have 3 new likely starters there...how is that not addressing the Oline? We also got a quality blocking TE to help in blocking. Where is this non-addressing thing you mentioned?

We need to address the RB position? Your further cluelessness is showing again. If anything, this is one of our stronger positions besides LB. Not only do we have solid people, but now we obtained the services of the A-train cheaply! You could only wish to have better backups that an old Bill like aging Sammy Morris or the wimpy Travis Minor, who I can't believe is still on your team...I guess with Ricky gone, you'll have to hope that a newbie like Kay Jay can step up.

Why don't you save your worrying for your own team instead of trying to act like you know what the Bills really need to do...

[BillsFever21]

Replacing old crap and bringing in new crap doesn't mean our OL is fixed. It's not like Reyes and Fowler were in high demand. If the league thought they were great players then there would have been more teams going after them.

Some are acting like we signed Hutchinson and Bentley for our OL this offseason.

Reyes wasn't wanted back by Carolina. If Carolina thought Reyes was any good I'm sure he would've been brought back for a lousy 600k this season. It's also pretty safe to say Reyes would've stayed on a great team like Carolina had they wanted him back. They must not have thought that much of him if it would've only cost them about 1.5 million dollars for two years. And if he was that great then there would've been tons of teams trying to sign him when they could've landed him that cheap. I just can't get excited about a player that a great team didn't want back when it would only cost them 1.5 million dollars over two years and that nobody else went after him for that kind of money.

Who knows with Fowler. It's hard to judge the Vikings interest in him since they have Matt Birk. All I know is he was drafted in the 3rd round by the Browns and they gave up on him in a couple years. Then he never started on the team that traded for him unless somebody got hurt. There wasn't many teams gunning for him this offseason. Fowler might turn out to be decent but don't be expecting great things.

I know that Marv Levy is so much better then all the other GM's though. He can see things in players nobody else can.

Signing a couple castoffs that didn't garner much attention as a FA doesn't make me feel this line is fixed. Especially with Reyes who was dumped by the Panthers and then nobody else went after him for a lousy 1.5 million over two years. I'm sure Buffalo was probably so attractive to him though that he wouldn't even listen to any other offers.

I remember hearing last year that our LG position was set because we signed Bennie Anderson who played with the Ravens and we didn't need anybody else. Look how that turned out.

Just brining in new junk that were castoffs from other teams doesn't mean that we fixed our lines. There were people homeristic enough to believe that last year and I guess there is enough to believe it this year too.

[mysticsoto]

Replacing old crap and bringing in new crap doesn't mean our OL is fixed. It's not like Reyes and Fowler were in high demand. If the league thought they were great players then there would have been more teams going after them.

Some are acting like we signed Hutchinson and Bentley for our OL this offseason.

Reyes wasn't wanted back by Carolina. If Carolina thought Reyes was any good I'm sure he would've been brought back for a lousy 600k this season. It's also pretty safe to say Reyes would've stayed on a great team like Carolina had they wanted him back. They must not have thought that much of him if it would've only cost them about 1.5 million dollars for two years. And if he was that great then there would've been tons of teams trying to sign him when they could've landed him that cheap. I just can't get excited about a player that a great team didn't want back when it would only cost them 1.5 million dollars over two years and that nobody else went after him for that kind of money.

Who knows with Fowler. It's hard to judge the Vikings interest in him since they have Matt Birk. All I know is he was drafted in the 3rd round by the Browns and they gave up on him in a couple years. Then he never started on the team that traded for him unless somebody got hurt. There wasn't many teams gunning for him this offseason. Fowler might turn out to be decent but don't be expecting great things.

I know that Marv Levy is so much better then all the other GM's though. He can see things in players nobody else can.

Signing a couple castoffs that didn't garner much attention as a FA doesn't make me feel this line is fixed. Especially with Reyes who was dumped by the Panthers and then nobody else went after him for a lousy 1.5 million over two years. I'm sure Buffalo was probably so attractive to him though that he wouldn't even listen to any other offers.

I remember hearing last year that our LG position was set because we signed Bennie Anderson who played with the Ravens and we didn't need anybody else. Look how that turned out.

Just brining in new junk that were castoffs from other teams doesn't mean that we fixed our lines. There were people homeristic enough to believe that last year and I guess there is enough to believe it this year too.

There are some people that believe that unless you bring in Hutchinson or Bentley, the Oline will be crap no matter what. I have observed that a good amt of people had their heart set on this and no matter who else they bring in, they would be considered crap. Hell, when Peters was moved to play Tackle, I heard people complaining - about how he didn't have enough experience, about how he was a TE, about how low he scored on his wonderlic and how stupid he was. And last year he was the best Olineman on the team - easily replacing a 1st rd - 4th pick player.

As far as I'm concerned, the replacements are better than the players that were there originally. Therefore, they are an improvement.

[BillsFever21]

There are some people that believe that unless you bring in Hutchinson or Bentley, the Oline will be crap no matter what. I have observed that a good amt of people had their heart set on this and no matter who else they bring in, they would be considered crap. Hell, when Peters was moved to play Tackle, I heard people complaining - about how he didn't have enough experience, about how he was a TE, about how low he scored on his wonderlic and how stupid he was. And last year he was the best Olineman on the team - easily replacing a 1st rd - 4th pick player.

As far as I'm concerned, the replacements are better than the players that were there originally. Therefore, they are an improvement.

And there are some who think if you sign any player they are an improvement.

Everyone thought that last season with Bennie Anderson. How did he turn out?

And even if they are an improvement does that mean our line will be good? We might have the 25th best OL instead of the 30th now.

If you think Reyes will be anything special you will be very upset. He was a castoff from a SB contending team and only cost 600k this season so it wasn't for salary cap reasons.

[BillsFever21]

We have been signing junk on the OL for the last 4 years. Each time there were people who said that they were an improvement over what we had before so we're in better shape now. If that was the case we would have a pretty good OL by now.

[mysticsoto]

And there are some who think if you sign any player they are an improvement.

Everyone thought that last season with Bennie Anderson. How did he turn out?

And even if they are an improvement does that mean our line will be good? We might have the 25th best OL instead of the 30th now.

If you think Reyes will be anything special you will be very upset. He was a castoff from a SB contending team and only cost 600k this season so it wasn't for salary cap reasons.

Reyes, like anyone else, will have to compete for the job. It's not just being given to him. Preston is also in the mix and will likely fight hard to try and secure a starting position...

What would be your solution? Draft a rookie to come in and play with the pros and hope he can jump right in despite the fact that most rookies have a hard time jumping right in, in the NFL? Or pay $50 million dollars to bring Hutchinson in?

[justasportsfan]

Your post clearly shows you know nothing about the Bills - you learn barely enough to try and criticize by regurgitating what other people say. Here's something you want to pay attention to...despite the analysts criticizing the Bills' draft based on value of player for the 1st two picks, most analysts have said we have obtained QUALITY players in our 1st 5 picks. They've also said, if 2 years from now, those players are pro-bowl caliber players, nobody will remember or even mention that they were a so-called "reach" - like Dwight Freeney for the Colts who was criticized as being a reach when he was drafted!!!

As to the Oline, I already said it, we will have 3 new likely starters there...how is that not addressing the Oline? We also got a quality blocking TE to help in blocking. Where is this non-addressing thing you mentioned?

We need to address the RB position? Your further cluelessness is showing again. If anything, this is one of our stronger positions besides LB. Not only do we have solid people, but now we obtained the services of the A-train cheaply! You could only wish to have better backups that an old Bill like aging Sammy Morris or the wimpy Travis Minor, who I can't believe is still on your team...I guess with Ricky gone, you'll have to hope that a newbie like Kay Jay can step up.

Why don't you save your worrying for your own team instead of trying to act like you know what the Bills really need to do...
He says we've done nothing at TE and OL. We signed arguably the best blocking TE in the game. That only helps the OL. He forgets that SAban himself is trying to do the same with Kyle Turley.

That's why FTP's a waste of time. Claims to know stuff about the bills and yet he doesn't even know what's going on with his own team.

[feelthepain]

We have been signing junk on the OL for the last 4 years. Each time there were people who said that they were an improvement over what we had before so we're in better shape now. If that was the case we would have a pretty good OL by now.


Now here's a Bill fan that gets it. The Bills Oline is a joke, I'm not syaing this because I hate the Bills, I'm saying becuse it's true. McNally is someone Bill fans love talking about, "he's the best Oline coach in the league"!! (Bill fans opinion only) Well what was the excuse last year?? I know MM, right?? Another excuse!! I think McNally's a great coach (not the best in the league), but you can't coach second tier players into starters when that's all you have to work with. Seems like some fans understand the game and their team and aren't homers (BillsFever21), and some no matter what happens refuse to grow up and discuss football and the reality of their team (mysticsoto) because they are too much of a homer to deal with the facts.


It's funny how BillsFever21 see's the Bills Oline for what is and he's a Bill fan I see the same thing, yet we are wrong and you, mysticsoto are right!
BillsFever21 isn't siding with me he just see's the Bills line for what it is. As long as your owner refuses to spend the money and make the moves that need to be made you're stuck with a team that is what it is and that's avg. at best deal with it. You just hate the fact that I'm a fin fan and I'm right about your team and you refuse to accept it, I can't help that. I can't wait for the next line of BS and excuses you'll spew.

[justasportsfan]

The Bills Oline is a joke, I'm not syaing this because I hate the Bills, I'm saying becuse it's true. . You have facts to support this? Must be one of your stupidopinion just like this one .



Infact you could say Brady is nowheres near the QB Daunte is. Do you think Brady would have been in three SB's with the Cards or Saints?? On the other hand you could eaisly see Pep with 3 SB rings if he were the Pats QB the last five years, instead of Brady.

So who's the biggest homer? :roflmao:

here's another one


I think Ray Lucas could have been soild in the Pats lineup the last five years. Not knocking Brady, but it's more of a system thing in NE then it is Brady. Pep has better numbers then Brady and as many if not more Pro bowls. Lets not get carried away with the lovefest for Brady just because he's with the Pats. Remember when the Pats made their last couple of SB's it was more because of the D then the O. Remember the Colts games?? Their O was head and sholders better then their D. The pats won their last two SB by 3 points each, doesn't sound like a dominating O as much as a good gameplan.


Ray Lucas? :roflmao: :roflmao:


And he claims he knows football ????


:crazy:

[BillsFever21]

Reyes, like anyone else, will have to compete for the job. It's not just being given to him. Preston is also in the mix and will likely fight hard to try and secure a starting position...

What would be your solution? Draft a rookie to come in and play with the pros and hope he can jump right in despite the fact that most rookies have a hard time jumping right in, in the NFL? Or pay $50 million dollars to bring Hutchinson in?

So the better idea is to keep bringing in junk year after year?

Our OL has sucked for 5 years and we have continued to bring in cheap scrubs each year. How has that worked out.

Do you think we're playoff bound this year? Would a talented young lineman ruin our chances at the playoffs this year?

What if we would've drafted a good guard like Logan Mankins(Patriots) a year or two ago instead of signing somebody like Bennie Anderson. He is a stud now and Bennie Anderson is being replaced by another cheap scrub. Which would have been a better idea?

[BillsFever21]

Why even have rookie drafts and draft players to improve a certain area on your team. Most of them can't come in and keep up with the pros their rookie season. Just keep signing scrubs every year or two instead and never get better.

Why did we even draft Donte Whitner? He won't be able to step in this season and keep up with Clements and McGee. I guess we would've been better served to just stick with Matt Bowen or Coy Wire. Then in another year or two replace them with some more cheap scrubs and then repeat the same thing again after their replacements prove to be junk?

That is the funniest thing I've heard in a while. You don't draft a talented player when your team has missed the playoffs for 6 straight years and doesn't have any shot this year because he won't be ready this year. Instead you just bring in some veteran junk who might be slightly better this season if they are lucky and then look for another one the next season.

Here it is 5 years later(no playoffs) and we still have one of the worst OL's in the league with this method. We still are a long ways away to contend for the playoffs but signing some more scrubs to replace the other scrubs signed within the past couple years is a better solution.

Why were even guys like Pace, Jones, Hutchinson, Bentley and all the other great lineman even drafted by their teams? They wern't ready to step in with the pros that year. They would've been better off to sign some junk that year instead, and then sign somebody else after he fails the next year or two and still be searching for a good lineman.

That's a great solution there. Worry about a rookie not being able to step in this season when we might win 5 games if we're lucky. Instead sign some more junk and look again for some more junk in another year or two.

At this pace we may have a serviceable OL in 5 more years.

[Statman]

Maybe the reason we allowed so many long pass plays is because we couldn't rush the passer.

Just a thought.

[SquishDaFish]

I agree to a point that the OLine needs work. I think we have a decent Oline. I would just like to see a dominant LT and then we would have a great Oline. We thought we had it with Big Mike. But he was a Bust. If he would of turned into something we wouldnt be here talking about this.

[feelthepain]

I agree to a point that the OLine needs work. I think we have a decent Oline. I would just like to see a dominant LT and then we would have a great Oline. We thought we had it with Big Mike. But he was a Bust. If he would of turned into something we wouldnt be here talking about this.

Well the Bills had roster spots, the money and the top notch talent avalible to fill the LT position, the Center and a Guard....why didn't they??? They then could have drafted Winston Justice to play RT. The Oline would have been stellar. They then could have drafted D from the second round on and without moving up and wasting picks.....seems like everything was in place for the Bills and they end up pissing away the FA period getting nothing and giving away draft picks. Who's fault is it??? How can Bill fans see it any other way???

[feelthepain]

Maybe the reason we allowed so many long pass plays is because we couldn't rush the passer.

Just a thought.

Wow, another Bill fan who gets it.....whats going on here??? The force is weakening.

[mysticsoto]

Wow, another Bill fan who gets it.....whats going on here??? The force is weakening.

Yeah, dummy...pay attention to what is being said here! Rushing the passer is what defense does. Check the draft again - we drafted 5 players toward defense with our 1st 5 picks! :whoosh:

[mysticsoto]

So the better idea is to keep bringing in junk year after year?

Our OL has sucked for 5 years and we have continued to bring in cheap scrubs each year. How has that worked out.

Do you think we're playoff bound this year? Would a talented young lineman ruin our chances at the playoffs this year?

What if we would've drafted a good guard like Logan Mankins(Patriots) a year or two ago instead of signing somebody like Bennie Anderson. He is a stud now and Bennie Anderson is being replaced by another cheap scrub. Which would have been a better idea?

Who says they are junk? Your opinion? Well, I don't know your qualifications, but I am more than happy to take the new Bills FO word over yours. Clearly Donahoe was not a good judge of Olinemen. But it doesn't mean the new FO isn't, and it certainly doesn't mean you are!

[mysticsoto]

Why even have rookie drafts and draft players to improve a certain area on your team. Most of them can't come in and keep up with the pros their rookie season. Just keep signing scrubs every year or two instead and never get better.

Why did we even draft Donte Whitner? He won't be able to step in this season and keep up with Clements and McGee. I guess we would've been better served to just stick with Matt Bowen or Coy Wire. Then in another year or two replace them with some more cheap scrubs and then repeat the same thing again after their replacements prove to be junk?

That is the funniest thing I've heard in a while. You don't draft a talented player when your team has missed the playoffs for 6 straight years and doesn't have any shot this year because he won't be ready this year. Instead you just bring in some veteran junk who might be slightly better this season if they are lucky and then look for another one the next season.

Here it is 5 years later(no playoffs) and we still have one of the worst OL's in the league with this method. We still are a long ways away to contend for the playoffs but signing some more scrubs to replace the other scrubs signed within the past couple years is a better solution.

Why were even guys like Pace, Jones, Hutchinson, Bentley and all the other great lineman even drafted by their teams? They wern't ready to step in with the pros that year. They would've been better off to sign some junk that year instead, and then sign somebody else after he fails the next year or two and still be searching for a good lineman.

That's a great solution there. Worry about a rookie not being able to step in this season when we might win 5 games if we're lucky. Instead sign some more junk and look again for some more junk in another year or two.

At this pace we may have a serviceable OL in 5 more years.

First of all, nobody said that rookies can't come in and start. I said that Olinemen rookies tend to have a hard time starting. Second of all, considering we have just had a regime change, there is no reason to assume that this regime will not be good at drafting Olinemen as the previous one was. That is an assumption in your part. More generally, any position is a crap shoot in the draft. You don't know what you are getting. Just b'cse someone may look like they'd be a good draft prospect doesn't mean they will end up being one. As of right now, Robert Gallery is struggling - and he was considered the creme de la creme of Tackles 2 years ago.

As for Hutchinson, Pace, and others, once again, I'm going to ask you the question that you ducked last time...what is your solution? Disregard defense and draft offensive line in the draft first? Bring in veterans that want $50 Million? Don't just whine and duck the question - provide a solution!

I'm inclined to agree with BillsIN05. I've never said the Oline is going to be awesome this year. But it has taken a step in the right direction. Quite frankly, everything can't be fixed to perfection in 1 year. Marv has taken steps to improve the defense, and he'll have to address offense next year. Rome wasn't built in a day. But go ahead, whine. Some people just have to...

[mysticsoto]

Now here's a Bill fan that gets it. The Bills Oline is a joke, I'm not syaing this because I hate the Bills, I'm saying becuse it's true. McNally is someone Bill fans love talking about, "he's the best Oline coach in the league"!! (Bill fans opinion only) Well what was the excuse last year?? I know MM, right?? Another excuse!! I think McNally's a great coach (not the best in the league), but you can't coach second tier players into starters when that's all you have to work with. Seems like some fans understand the game and their team and aren't homers (BillsFever21), and some no matter what happens refuse to grow up and discuss football and the reality of their team (mysticsoto) because they are too much of a homer to deal with the facts.

It's funny how BillsFever21 see's the Bills Oline for what is and he's a Bill fan I see the same thing, yet we are wrong and you, mysticsoto are right!
BillsFever21 isn't siding with me he just see's the Bills line for what it is. As long as your owner refuses to spend the money and make the moves that need to be made you're stuck with a team that is what it is and that's avg. at best deal with it. You just hate the fact that I'm a fin fan and I'm right about your team and you refuse to accept it, I can't help that. I can't wait for the next line of BS and excuses you'll spew.


:violin:

Hey FTP, where's Feeley right now? Make sure you take your pills before you answer...

[ICE74129]

My friend says not to bench her 10 yr. old son when you coach football summer camp this year.

Although I am working with the offensive players and specifically QB's a couple HS Camps this summer, I don't coach 10 year olds.

Weak. Come up with new material

[Kerr]

Even if we haven't seen whitner play in this league, just looking at him you can tell he's going to be a beast.

[ICE74129]

Even if we haven't seen whitner play in this league, just looking at him you can tell he's going to be a beast.

Really? Did anyone here even know of this kid before we drafted him? Not unless you were an OSU fan and no one thought he would be our first pick.

He is going to be a beast huh? Same with Tony Mandich and many others.

[justasportsfan]

Really? Did anyone here even know of this kid before we drafted him? Yes, Marv, Lions, Ravens, Fins and everyone who was thought to draft him that I didn't mention. They don't count though because you know better than all of them.

[ICE74129]

Yes, Marv, Lions, Ravens, Fins and everyone who was thought to draft him that I didn't mention. They don't count though because you know better than all of them.

No just better than this staff, and the one before and the one before.

[justasportsfan]

No just better than this staff, and the one before and the one before. I'm sure you do Mr. Pop Warner coach :crazy:

[TedMock]

Really? Did anyone here even know of this kid before we drafted him? Not unless you were an OSU fan and no one thought he would be our first pick.

He is going to be a beast huh? Same with Tony Mandich and many others.

Anybody who watches college football probably knew who Donte Whitner was. I don't get that comment. Now, will he be a stud? Who knows. Crap shoot like every other pick. I never liked people being predicted as studs, or busts. There are soooo many circumstances, not just athletic ability, that factor in.

[Kerr]

Really? Did anyone here even know of this kid before we drafted him? Not unless you were an OSU fan and no one thought he would be our first pick.

He is going to be a beast huh? Same with Tony Mandich and many others.


I wasn't refering to seeing him play, but he looks the part from the photos.

[feelthepain]

I wasn't refering to seeing him play, but he looks the part from the photos.


Lets hope for the Bills sake they don't draft players based on their photographs. Then again, that would explain a few things!!

[Kerr]

Lets hope for the Bills sake they don't draft players based on their photographs. Then again, that would explain a few things!!

No, they actually had to do their scouting.