Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
If you look Diggs 2nd year stats in nfl: 84 catches on 112 targets. Shakir 2nd year 39 catches on something like 43 targets. Not saying shakir will be Diggs. But something to watch, especially next year that he may step into a role that opponents may put #1 cb on him.
Right now though, I still bet Shakir is not getting 100 targets in 2024. Kincaid is odds on favorite to get that. But you never know if Shakir will force Brady’s hand by having a Diggs like breakout season which is not uncommon for wr on year 3
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
It doesn't matter what you get with your picks but don't whiff.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
The lack of a dependable #1 target has held this team back and Josh as well. He’s never had a guy he can just throw it up to and let him go make a play. Bring him that and you will see this offense reinvent itself, don’t and you will see the definition of insanity play out.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DraftBoy
The lack of a dependable #1 target has held this team back and Josh as well. He’s never had a guy he can just throw it up to and let him go make a play. Bring him that and you will see this offense reinvent itself, don’t and you will see the definition of insanity play out.
I don't see it. Josh doesn't throw that kind of ball imo.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sahlensguy
I don't see it. Josh doesn't throw that kind of ball imo.
Josh does throw alot of balls imto tight coverage. Some would say up for grabs.
To me it always seems like he fits the ball right in there and the reciever gets tackled almost immediately.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TacklingDummy
Josh does throw alot of balls imto tight coverage. Some would say up for grabs.
I think we are seeing close to the same thing. To me it always seems like he fits the ball right in there and the reciever gets tackled almost immediately.
I think we are saying close to the same thing. I see when he throws it up, it's more of a reckless, low percentage throw than to a spot where the receiver can outmaneuver the coverage to go get it without a high risk of an int.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Every team wants a true #1. Who doesn’t want a Randy Moss even with some baggage? My point is don’t simply chase that guy. If you have a non prototypical #1 receiver ranked significantly higher, don’t take that one
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ghz in pittsburgh
Every team wants a true #1. Who doesn’t want a Randy Moss even with some baggage? My point is don’t simply chase that guy. If you have a non prototypical #1 receiver ranked significantly higher, don’t take that one
Don't try to hit the home run with the draft pick. Get a ground rule double and don't whiff
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sahlensguy
Don't try to hit the home run with the draft pick. Get a ground rule double and don't whiff
I like the philosophy Sahlens.
The Watkins and Tuttle moves scare the heck out of me.
Depending on how the first round plays out, make a small move if you think a solid number 1 WR will drop down to 17...20...22, etc.
Trying to force your way into the top 10 or 12 is just too risky for a team that has a few holes and limited cap space.
Beane is a bright guy.
I'm sure he will do right by us.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
I do want a home run guy. But there are different home run guys from different positions. Don’t zero in on the 1st base position and say we must get a home run guy there. The chiefs proved that over and over
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Historian
I like the philosophy Sahlens.
The Watkins and Tuttle moves scare the heck out of me.
Depending on how the first round plays out, make a small move if you think a solid number 1 WR will drop down to 17...20...22, etc.
Trying to force your way into the top 10 or 12 is just too risky for a team that has a few holes and limited cap space.
Beane is a bright guy.
I'm sure he will do right by us.
Totally agree with this, drafting is a major risk to start. Too many players just can’t and don’t live up to their hype! I’d rather have more draft picks in the middle rounds and not waste a brunch like you said “trying to force” things.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Historian
I like the philosophy Sahlens.
The Watkins and Tuttle moves scare the heck out of me.
Depending on how the first round plays out, make a small move if you think a solid number 1 WR will drop down to 17...20...22, etc.
Trying to force your way into the top 10 or 12 is just too risky for a team that has a few holes and limited cap space.
Beane is a bright guy.
I'm sure he will do right by us.
No need for Beane to make a splash. He already has the QB who can put the team on his back and win it all. If Beane just drafts enough players who fit the system we'll be fine. We might even hit on another star or two.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YardRat
Which I interpret as having enough talent at several positions that the "#1 WR" is going to be different guys, at different times. Kincaid could be "#1" one week...Shakir for a half...Cook for a drive...depending on what the defense is giving you.
Well you could interpret it that way, but that's not what he meant. There are a few teams that have 2 legit No. 1's. Of courze there aren't too many of them.
San Fran with Deebo and now Ayuk (at present);
Tampa
Miami
Philly
The Chargers did with Keenan Allen and Mike Williams
Again, he said "ideally" or a word to that effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YardRat
I think some people find some encouragement in how the offense performed the last half of last season when Diggs was "absent".
Im sure there are...to an extent I am too. They began to run the ball more effectively and cut down on the turnovers. The D played lights out.
But keep in mind, in the last 6 games, including the playoffs, they passed for less than 200 yards in 4 of those games, and in a 5th game, they barely squeaked past 200 yards.
Not sure if they can sustain that for a full season, esp. a rebuild on defense and teams getting a sneak peek at the Bills playbook this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YardRat
Yeah me either, because he hasn't. He's stagnated the last couple (few?) years, actually. Looking through rose-colored glasses maybe in hindsight we can claim Diggs actually stunted Allen's growth to a certain extent because of his insistence on being the "#1" and the QB will finally show some more growth.
Yeah those would be pretty rose colored glasses. I know its fashionable to slam on Diggs and let it slop over to his whole career here. But Josh was pretty accurate when he said, "he helped me become the QB I am today."
I caught Kurt Warner last night talking about the situation, and he just laughed a bit and said something like "yeah, he needs someone". He went on about talking about having that guy you can rely upon to get open and catch the ball. Ofc, when his career was at its best, he had at least 2.
Stl- Bruce and Holt (with huge contributions from Faulk and Akim);
Zona- Fitz and Boldin
For 3 1/2 years, Josh had that with Diggs. Does Kincaid, Shakir or Samuel now fill that role? Idk. I hope so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
YardRat
I don't think anybody is claiming we couldn't use a talented receiver in the draft or we shouldn't use our first on one, IMO it's more "we don't need a guy to build the passing game around at wide receiver because we already have the QB to do that".
I don't see it as "building the passing game around" as much as giving the passing game something it hasn't had for a while, a bona fide deep threat.
I like who they have at WR now, but they are really in the short to mid range areas of the field.
Right now, there are 3 guys within reach (at 28 or possibly a small trade up) that have the size/speed/hands/ability to get open deep/other factors:
Thomas
Mitchell
Legette
there are others with speed, but many of them are more of underneath targets.
Why its important:
-most obvious, you have a QB with a cannon for an arm who loves, in face needs, to throw the ball deep at times.
-because of that, you need a legit target
-it doesn't mean you have to chuck the ball deep constantly. Most teams play the BIlls in a two deep zone now. With that legit deep target, you are most likely going to draw one of the safeties away from the middle of the field, opening things up for the group of talented underneath/mid route guys, bot h in their route and the ability to take off after the catch.
Anyhoo...after all that, I found it interesting that Josh texted Beane 2 words last year during the 1st round "Dalton Kincaid". Josh even made a Draft Day reference when he talked about it.
So this year, he only types 1 word "Xavier".
Beane looks at it, shows it to McD, and says, "who does he mean? Xavier Legette or Xavier Worthy?
McD says "I know who he meant, and write down a name"
With 28th pick of the 2024 NFL draft, the Buffalo Bills select...
Xavier Thomas, Edge, CLemson.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sahlensguy
I don't see it. Josh doesn't throw that kind of ball imo.
Huh? He throws that kind of a ball all the time.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sahlensguy
No need for Beane to make a splash. He already has the QB who can put the team on his back and win it all. If Beane just drafts enough players who fit the system we'll be fine. We might even hit on another star or two.
Beane does need a splash after his last few moves didn’t pan out. He’s feeling some heat and while his job likely isn’t in jeopardy yet if the Bills slip or miss the playoffs then he’ll be on the hot seat while McDermott is gone. They both need to make a big move.
They can’t allow this team to go into next season without significant improvement that they can sell to the owners and fan base. Any step back would be a disaster.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DraftBoy
Beane does need a splash after his last few moves didn’t pan out. He’s feeling some heat and while his job likely isn’t in jeopardy yet if the Bills slip or miss the playoffs then he’ll be on the hot seat while McDermott is gone. They both need to make a big move.
They can’t allow this team to go into next season without significant improvement that they can sell to the owners and fan base. Any step back would be a disaster.
What draft picks didnt pan out??
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DraftBoy
Beane does need a splash after his last few moves didn’t pan out. He’s feeling some heat and while his job likely isn’t in jeopardy yet if the Bills slip or miss the playoffs then he’ll be on the hot seat while McDermott is gone. They both need to make a big move.
They can’t allow this team to go into next season without significant improvement that they can sell to the owners and fan base. Any step back would be a disaster.
I think teams rarely make significant improvements from even the best rookies.
If Beane is feeling pressure to do so, we're in trouble.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Historian
No I can honestly say I did not, and that's not to undermine all of his abilities, honestly.
IMO, he was average size, better than average speed. When I think of true number 1s, I think of guys like..... DK Metcalf, Eric Moulds, TO as a Niner, Irvin, guys like that.
As a matter of fact, I went through every draft since the merger and ranked where I thought the Bills receivers are:
Some "true #1s" in Bills history, IMHO:
Eric Moulds
Frank Lewis
Andre Reed
Jerry Butler
Haven Moses
Bills True #2s:
Bob Chandler
Marlin Briscoe
Stefon Diggs
Chris Burkett
James Lofton (a true #1 as a Packer)
TO (#1 as a 49er)
Quinn Early
Byron Franklin
Lee Evans
Peerless Price
Stevie Johnson
Sammie Watkins
Bills "True 3rds" IMO:
Mark Mosely
Robert Woods
Josh Reed
Ron Jesse
Lou Piccone
Steve Tasker
John Holland
Don Beebe
Russell Copeland
Justin Armour
Robert Holt
Marquise Goodwin
Zay Jones
Ray Ray McCloud
Roscoe Parrish
Gabe Davis
Kalil Shakir
Cole Beasley
Al Edwards
Billy Brooks
JD Hill
Absolute Garbage
Bernard Ford
Julius Dawkins
Mitchell Brookins
Kamil Loud
Avion Black
Walter Broughton
Brad Lamb
Drew Hadad
Sam Aiken
Eric Richardson
Perry Tuttle
Jimmy Teal
Reggie Bynam
Justin Shorter
Chris Walsh
Kwame Cavil
John Kimborough
James Hardy
Marcus Easley
TJ Graham
Danny Fulton
There's an awful lot there to debate, but most glaringly putting somebody who barely saw the field in offensive sets like Mike Mosley with Woods, Reed, Piccone, etc is an insult to the other guys.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Forward_Lateral
What draft picks didnt pan out??
Elam, Zay, Edmunds, Ford, Epenesa, and Moss if were just talking about 1st through 3rd rounders.
Re: We don’t need a number one receiver…says Beanie Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sahlensguy
I think teams rarely make significant improvements from even the best rookies.
If Beane is feeling pressure to do so, we're in trouble.
I didn’t say the draft pick had to be the big splash, just that he needed one. I can absolutely see Beane thinking we’re close and going all in to try and get Nabers. I wouldn’t like it, but it fits his mentality.