The myth that is Michael Vick

[kernowboy]

For all the fans calling for Michael Vick and talking that some how if we'd give up valuable draft picks that we'd at least make the Championship game, then a little cold war needs to be poured on this assumption.

Vick is an extremely average QB. Whilst his win-loss record in Atlanta superfically appears impressive, a closer investigation demonstrates it is actually very average.

1) In most seasons he barely threw more TDs than INTs in Atlanta and since coming out of jail has thrown for a total of 86yds so it will be over 4 years he's regularly started. He has only once thrown for 2,500yds+ once and that was 8 years ago.

this is a fact.

JP Losman has thrown further in one season than Vick has at any point in his career.

Trent Edwards has thrown for further in 2008 when he only played 14games than Vick has ever thrown since 2002 and would probably have beaten Vick's totals if he had played those extra 2 games.

2) Whilst he was at Atlanta, they also had the Thunder and Lightning duo of Dunn and Duckett. In 3 of 4 seasons at Atlanta with Vick, Dunn ran over 1,000yds and this was complemented by Duckett. Most of Atlanta's gains can be attributed to non-Vick reasons - they had fantastic running backs.

3) Roddy White became a top receiver only after Vick was jailed showing how poor Vick is at connecting with his WR. Hell, White gained over 1,000yds with Redman/Harrington under center which tells you all you need to know about Vick's lack of passing ability. His sole skill is to the dunk the ball off to the TE and it has to be asked if we have a TE of Crumpler's ability in his prime

4) Vick had an elite pass protecting RT in Todd Weiner protecting his blindside - he'll not find that in Buffalo even if Butler is fit.

Forgetting the disgrace of a human being that Vick is for a moment, it seems that fans are measuring Vick on his past endeavours than the current reality.

Much as fans wanted Marty as head coach, the 'Joe Gibbs return' must weigh on people's minds. When you are away from the game, how much has the game moved on to the point where what you previously offered can now be easily neutralised?

Vick offers nothing apart from a totally unwelcome distraction. He is a 'me first guy' who will do nothing to aid the development of our young WRs, will not best use Evans and not bring any sort of offensive improvement as teams will simply stack up against us v the run and dare us to beat them in the air.

And one final thing on Vick. When The Falcons tried to reclaim the signing bonus from Vick asking for $20m of the original $37m, the outcome was this.

The arbitrator agreed with the Falcons' contentions that Vick knew he was engaging in illegal activity when he signed his new contract in 2004, and that he had used the bonus money to pay for the operation.

Even the less than envied Arthur Blank didn't stoop so low as to accept Vick back onto his team

[Joe Fo Sho]

He'll be more exciting than Edwards/Fitzpatrick. That's really all I care about. This was the most boring season I've ever watched. It made me miss Losman...

[Thief]

I don't understand how any of that makes his win/loss record less impressive.

[Bone]

Mike Vick makes plays, something the Bills don't do.

[X-Era]

Kernow,

I cant go along with starting some never has been at Qb next year, a rookie LT, and waiting until next years draft to get our QB.

It took Jason Peters how many years to become good? But a rookie will be different?

Next year we have no idea who will be picking where, and could be i the same boat where there snit any better option that the options we have right now.

And why forfeit the next few years on a QB who hasn't done anything?

[tampabay25690]

For all the fans calling for Michael Vick and talking that some how if we'd give up valuable draft picks that we'd at least make the Championship game, then a little cold war needs to be poured on this assumption.

Vick is an extremely average QB. Whilst his win-loss record in Atlanta superfically appears impressive, a closer investigation demonstrates it is actually very average.

1) In most seasons he barely threw more TDs than INTs in Atlanta and since coming out of jail has thrown for a total of 86yds so it will be over 4 years he's regularly started. He has only once thrown for 2,500yds+ once and that was 8 years ago.

this is a fact.

JP Losman has thrown further in one season than Vick has at any point in his career.

Trent Edwards has thrown for further in 2008 when he only played 14games than Vick has ever thrown since 2002 and would probably have beaten Vick's totals if he had played those extra 2 games.

2) Whilst he was at Atlanta, they also had the Thunder and Lightning duo of Dunn and Duckett. In 3 of 4 seasons at Atlanta with Vick, Dunn ran over 1,000yds and this was complemented by Duckett. Most of Atlanta's gains can be attributed to non-Vick reasons - they had fantastic running backs.

3) Roddy White became a top receiver only after Vick was jailed showing how poor Vick is at connecting with his WR. Hell, White gained over 1,000yds with Redman/Harrington under center which tells you all you need to know about Vick's lack of passing ability. His sole skill is to the dunk the ball off to the TE and it has to be asked if we have a TE of Crumpler's ability in his prime

4) Vick had an elite pass protecting RT in Todd Weiner protecting his blindside - he'll not find that in Buffalo even if Butler is fit.

Forgetting the disgrace of a human being that Vick is for a moment, it seems that fans are measuring Vick on his past endeavours than the current reality.

Much as fans wanted Marty as head coach, the 'Joe Gibbs return' must weigh on people's minds. When you are away from the game, how much has the game moved on to the point where what you previously offered can now be easily neutralised?

Vick offers nothing apart from a totally unwelcome distraction. He is a 'me first guy' who will do nothing to aid the development of our young WRs, will not best use Evans and not bring any sort of offensive improvement as teams will simply stack up against us v the run and dare us to beat them in the air.

And one final thing on Vick. When The Falcons tried to reclaim the signing bonus from Vick asking for $20m of the original $37m, the outcome was this.

The arbitrator agreed with the Falcons' contentions that Vick knew he was engaging in illegal activity when he signed his new contract in 2004, and that he had used the bonus money to pay for the operation.

Even the less than envied Arthur Blank didn't stoop so low as to accept Vick back onto his team

WOW all this writing...
I would be happy to have VICK in Buffalo.
Would be the best QB we had in 10 years

[Raptor]

Extremely average sadly would be a massive upgrade to the QB's we have now

For all the fans calling for Michael Vick and talking that some how if we'd give up valuable draft picks that we'd at least make the Championship game, then a little cold war needs to be poured on this assumption.

Vick is an extremely average QB. Whilst his win-loss record in Atlanta superfically appears impressive, a closer investigation demonstrates it is actually very average.

1) In most seasons he barely threw more TDs than INTs in Atlanta and since coming out of jail has thrown for a total of 86yds so it will be over 4 years he's regularly started. He has only once thrown for 2,500yds+ once and that was 8 years ago.

this is a fact.

JP Losman has thrown further in one season than Vick has at any point in his career.

Trent Edwards has thrown for further in 2008 when he only played 14games than Vick has ever thrown since 2002 and would probably have beaten Vick's totals if he had played those extra 2 games.

2) Whilst he was at Atlanta, they also had the Thunder and Lightning duo of Dunn and Duckett. In 3 of 4 seasons at Atlanta with Vick, Dunn ran over 1,000yds and this was complemented by Duckett. Most of Atlanta's gains can be attributed to non-Vick reasons - they had fantastic running backs.

3) Roddy White became a top receiver only after Vick was jailed showing how poor Vick is at connecting with his WR. Hell, White gained over 1,000yds with Redman/Harrington under center which tells you all you need to know about Vick's lack of passing ability. His sole skill is to the dunk the ball off to the TE and it has to be asked if we have a TE of Crumpler's ability in his prime

4) Vick had an elite pass protecting RT in Todd Weiner protecting his blindside - he'll not find that in Buffalo even if Butler is fit.

Forgetting the disgrace of a human being that Vick is for a moment, it seems that fans are measuring Vick on his past endeavours than the current reality.

Much as fans wanted Marty as head coach, the 'Joe Gibbs return' must weigh on people's minds. When you are away from the game, how much has the game moved on to the point where what you previously offered can now be easily neutralised?

Vick offers nothing apart from a totally unwelcome distraction. He is a 'me first guy' who will do nothing to aid the development of our young WRs, will not best use Evans and not bring any sort of offensive improvement as teams will simply stack up against us v the run and dare us to beat them in the air.

And one final thing on Vick. When The Falcons tried to reclaim the signing bonus from Vick asking for $20m of the original $37m, the outcome was this.

The arbitrator agreed with the Falcons' contentions that Vick knew he was engaging in illegal activity when he signed his new contract in 2004, and that he had used the bonus money to pay for the operation.

Even the less than envied Arthur Blank didn't stoop so low as to accept Vick back onto his team

[DrGraves]

vick gives us a chance. hell yes.

[OpIv37]

I don't understand how any of that makes his win/loss record less impressive.

It's not HIS win-loss record. It's the team's win-loss record, and that team had components that Buffalo doesn't have at the moment. There is no legitimate reason to think that Vick can repeat those results on a lesser team when he's 4 years older and has been away from the game for 3 of those years.

[Lone Stranger]

I am in complete agreement with Kernowboy. I believe that we should give Gailey the opportunity to evaluate our current Qbacks. If they do not meet with his approval then either draft Clausen or wait for next year when there is supposed to be a better group of Qbacks.

There are plenty of other areas we need to upgrade currently and should concentrate on them.

[kernowboy]

The delusion that Vick can bring a winning season and the playoffs is precisely that - a delusion.

Since the 2006 season he has thrown for 86yds. That's it. He didn't even play in 2007 and 2008 season.

What evidence can Vick supporters provide that he can bring us far superior play at QB? None, because there is none.

Even if he plays better than anyone expects, all this will do is deprive us of the opportunity, if we don't draft a QB this year, to draft a QB of the future next year - a guy who can not only take us to the playoffs but keep us there, year in and year out.

For footballing reasons as well as character reasons bringing in Michael Vick will be the worst decision this franchise has made since getting rid of Bill Polian

[THATHURMANATOR]

So we can't draft a QB but you don't want us to bring anyone in either???

I don't disagree that Vick probably won't pan out but he has more of a chance than anyone we currently have. He is mobile and behind a crap line that should help.

[EDS]

Vick's value as a QB cannot be judged without looking at his running ability. Problem is, he is older now and looks heavier then he was in his haydays in Atlanta. Add those factors with the rust of being away from the game for so long, plus the confidence/mental issues associated with what he has gone through, add up to some BIG questions as to whether he could return to the level he formerly played at.

Even if he could return to that level, is it good enough? I for one, don't believe he can return to his former level of play, so it would make no sense to bring him in to QB in Buffalo.

[Philagape]

Vick's value as a QB cannot be judged without looking at his running ability. Problem is, he is older now and looks heavier then he was in his haydays in Atlanta. Add those factors with the rust of being away from the game for so long, plus the confidence/mental issues associated with what he has gone through, add up to some BIG questions as to whether he could return to the level he formerly played at.

Even if he could return to that level, is it good enough? I for one, don't believe he can return to his former level of play, so it would make no sense to bring him in to QB in Buffalo.

Yup. If he can't run like he did, he's useless.

[Philagape]

Mike Vick made plays, something the Bills don't do.

Fixed.

Has been. I don't care what he did years ago.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Vick's value as a QB cannot be judged without looking at his running ability. Problem is, he is older now and looks heavier then he was in his haydays in Atlanta. Add those factors with the rust of being away from the game for so long, plus the confidence/mental issues associated with what he has gone through, add up to some BIG questions as to whether he could return to the level he formerly played at.

Even if he could return to that level, is it good enough? I for one, don't believe he can return to his former level of play, so it would make no sense to bring him in to QB in Buffalo.

What is a 6th round pick? NOTHING when you could use it for a guy that could has a chance to start at QB for your team.

I view him as a competent stop gap. I would still advocate drafting a QB this or next year high, and continuing to progress Brohm.

[Jan Reimers]

Kernowboy's assessment of Vick is the best I've seen on this board. Contrary to what many believe, Vick was surrounded by very good talent at Atlanta, much of which was vastly underutilized by his shortcomings at QB.

Dunn and Duckett formed one of the best RB duos in the league, and he had a couple of other good WRs, in addition to the almost invisible Roddy White. Crumpler was a great dump off guy, the O-line was decent, and Dan Reeves was a fine coach.

If anything, a competent NFL QB - one who could read defenses and throw accurately - would probably have led the Falcons to a better record. And does anyone think he is even going to be a shell of his once mediocre self, after the last 3 years?

[OpIv37]

So we can't draft a QB but you don't want us to bring anyone in either???

I don't disagree that Vick probably won't pan out but he has more of a chance than anyone we currently have. He is mobile and behind a crap line that should help.

It's not that we don't want to draft one or bring one in- it's just that the current options aren't very good. The fact that the Bills need a qb does not automatically make one available.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Dunn and Duckett formed one of the best RB duos in the league, and he had a couple of other good WRs, in addition to the almost invisible Roddy White. Crumpler was a great dump off guy, the O-line was decent, and Dan Reeves was a fine coach.

I don't necessarily agree with this part. Dunn was surely good but aging and Duckett has always sucked balls. Roddy White had not blossomed at all yet during Vick's tenure. All he had to throw to was Crumpler.

I don't see why people wouldnt want to bring in Vick for a cheap contract and a very low pick. What is there to lose?

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's not that we don't want to draft one or bring one in- it's just that the current options aren't very good. The fact that the Bills need a qb does not automatically make one available.

Vick regardless of what you think of him is available for cheap, What is there to lose? What is your plan at QB? Edwards is done here, as the previous staff ruined him. Fitz is what he is. Brohm did not look nearly ready.

Why not take a shot that Gailey could mold an offense around him?