If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
All: The new Billszone site with the updated software is scheduled to be turned on Tuesday, May 21, 2024. The company that built it, Dynascale, estimates a FOUR HOUR shut down, from 8pm Pacific, (5pm Eastern) while they get it up and running. Nobody will be able to post in any forum until they are done. Afterwards, you may need to do a web search for the site, as old links will not work, because the site is getting a new IP address. Please be patient. If there are bugs, we will tackle them one at a time. Remember the goal is to be up and running with no glitches by camp. Doing this now assures us of that, because it gives us all summer to get our ducks in a row. Thank you!
There is work to be done and things to be learned. We are going to try to get the old look back - or something close to it. We also know there are bugs. A thread will be started to report bugs and then we can pass those onto the host.
Thank you for all the patience and support with this - hopefully this will greatly reduce the crashes and other site issues we have had lately.
Please use this thread to report any issues you come across
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/forum/feedback-forums/billszone-q-a/6521455-upgrade-report-bugs-here
Did The Light Go On For EJ Manuel In The 3rd Quarter Against The Bucs?
He has terrible feet. Every throw is all arm. It is killing his accuracy. Fix it. Get a kinetic chain expert or something to help him. It is painful to watch EJ stand flat footed or falling backwards and using nothing but his arm to throw. Literally no zip on any of his mid range throws. I mean this is basic stuff. Figure it out!
It is basic stuff. But allow me to quote from an article about EJ from two FSU fans that watched him avidly in every game that he played and who also were involved in documenting the team during that time. These guys broke down film regularly and had access to the coaching staff.
In order to make any kind of assessment of EJ Manuel's pro prospects, there has to be a clear understanding of where he is as a quarterback at the end of his college career. In all the attributes that one would look for in a potential NFL quarterback (footwork, mechanics, accuracy, ability to read a defense, pocket movement/escapability, running ability, etc. etc.)
EJ has demonstrated high levels of proficiency at times. He has also displayed levels of inconsistency at even the fundamental aspects of quarterback play that raise serious questions about his ultimate ceiling as a QB. The frustrating part of these inconsistencies is that they are so very inconsistent and appear seemingly at random. For a coach trying to address these issues it must feel like a game of whack-a-mole; as soon as you resolve one deficiency, another that you thought you had fixed reappears. This suggests a quarterback who has not sufficiently mastered the fundamental aspects of the position to the point that they happen automatically.
If EJ is thinking about footwork, then mechanics go to hell. If he starts to think about mechanics and footwork, then he forgets to make a necessary pass protection check, etc. etc. While I do not know EJ on a personal level, I would feel very comfortable stating as fact that he is a very intelligent person and a very hard worker. Further, he has been coached by an excellent QB coach for five years.Given that there are no suspected issues with work ethic or lack of quality coaching, EJ's inconsistency presents a problem that I don't think can be waved away with the notion that Jimbo Fisher's coaching style didn't mesh with EJ. The question an NFL team has to answer for themselves when deciding where to draft EJ is whether he is simply a late bloomer who develops at a slower rate than others (certainly possible), or whether he has limited aptitude for the position.
A big factor in EJ's success or lack thereof as a pro will be the circumstances around him, the ability of the coaching staff to fit their coaching style to him, and EJ's ability to overcome a couple of critical mental blocks he seems to have developed.
Ultimately, given the likelihood that he will be drafted high and forced to play early, I am skeptical that EJ will develop quickly enough to become a highly successful starter but I am certainly rooting for him to do so and wish him all the best.
That was from one of them. Here's from the other:
I would not draft EJ Manuel with a top-50 pick. Someone will, of course, because they think they can be the one to take those tools and bring out the superstar player. His play on the field at Florida State was that of a third- or fourth-rounder. His team had a talent advantage over almost all opponents, and that helped to hide some of his flaws. He was a fine college quarterback whose numbers are better than his play.
Manuel's long legs give me concern. He struggles to take the short, choppy steps that are required to move around in the pocket. He also has much better long speed than he does quickness, which hurts his ability to escape the rush and quickly scramble to pick up yards. Manuel's highlight tape contains some very impressive runs, and once he gets going he is very good at picking up yards in the open field. But his acceleration isn't great, and for being such a great athlete, his ability to avoid pressure was sorely lacking. How often does a quarterback run 40 yards in the NFL? It's a cool skill, but the greater skill, and one that Manuel doesn't seem to have, is the ability to consistently avoid pressure, avoid losing yards, and pick up first downs.
He really doesn't have a good feel for the game. Manuel is very slow to recognize and react on the field. He doesn't recognize blitzes well, doesn't sense pressure (making it too late to use his athleticism to avoid it), is often slow to get through his reads, and struggles to read coverage in general, both pre and post-snap. FSU had to dumb down its offense a lot for Manuel, as Alan and I have noted many times when people claimed it was too complicated. The reason for this, IMO, is because of his lack of mental ability on the field.
Manuel also struggles to throw with anticipation. The next time he bangs the post route before the receiver breaks open will be the first. He is very much a rudimentary "see it, throw it" player. That doesn't work well in the NFL. In the league, certain routes demand that the ball comes out before the receiver is open or out of his break.
Throwing with anticipation and the ability to quickly recognize and react to things happening on the field aren't physical tools, but rather are the power cords attached to the physical tools. Without them, the tools don't matter all that much. The questions NFL teams must ask are 1) how much of the above is coach-able and fixable, and 2) How much will Manuel loosen up and just play once he gets a paycheck and a new coach?
Now remember, those were fans of his hoping to see him succeed in the NFL, not Miami fans that had a reason to want to see him fail in the NFL.
This is exactly what we're seeing here, exactly.
It also explains fully why he's taken so many sacks, 28 in 10 games, which are Bledsoe-like sack numbers. Why, for a QB that's supposed to be so mobile. Fitzpatrick in his worst 16-game season had only 30 sacks, only two more in 6 more games.
In addressing the coaching concerns, it's pretty laughable that Jimbo Fisher's staff couldn't do much with Manuel but that Marrone and Hackett would be able to do something with him. Seriously, it's laughable.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Re: Did The Light Go On For EJ Manuel In The 3rd Quarter Against The Bucs?
He died at halftime and Warren Beatty took over in his body.
"'Clean up your room.', 'Stand up straight.', 'Pick up your feet.', 'Take it like a man.', 'Be nice to your sister.', 'Don't mix beer and wine, ever.'. Oh yeah, 'Don't drive on the railroad track.'"
And it took 12 posts for you to chime in with your ignoring facts. That always shows up however.
That's the problem, there's too many people that are "ignoring facts".
Of course, nobody is to blame other than Manuel. Maybe take a listen to what Mark Kelso had to say about the game after watching the tape and what went wrong, not saying what Kelso had to say is necessarily fact, but I imagine he knows quite a bit more about the game than any of us.
Manuel in 2013: 10 games/10 starts. 1,972 yards, 58.8% compl. 11 TDs, 9 INTs, 6.4 YPA, 77.7 Rating, 28 sacks
Considering that passing yards come easier today than they did a decade ago that would explain the yardage difference. Still, more TDs did not come with that additional yardage.
And when Kelly Holcomb is more adept at avoiding sacks it doesn't say much.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
Hall of Fame quarterback Jim Kelly expressed displeasure about the Buffalo Bills' current quarterbacks, including EJ Manuel, in an interview Monday with Sirius XM NFL Radio.
"To be honest, I'm not happy with any of them. I would love to see EJ come on," Kelly said. "He's a great guy. He's a great leader. I've heard him to speak to the team; I've heard him speak to the receivers before they take the field. His leadership is there. Everything is there.
EJ Manuel and the rest of the Bills' quarterbacks have not yet impressed Hall of Famer Jim Kelly.
"But I have not yet seen what we all want to see. And I'm sure he feels the same way. It just hasn't happened, and hopefully that's just because of the preseason."
Kelly said the Bills' success this season will hinge on Manuel's performance.
"I'm pulling for him, and I'll continue to pull for him," Kelly said.
He's basically saying the same thing, that EJ's a physically gifted bright guy and good leader, but that it simply isn't coming together.
Like the authors, he's pulling for him. Unfortunately that doesn't buy us much.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
It is basic stuff. But allow me to quote from an article about EJ from two FSU fans that watched him avidly in every game that he played and who also were involved in documenting the team during that time. These guys broke down film regularly and had access to the coaching staff.
That was from one of them. Here's from the other:
Now remember, those were fans of his hoping to see him succeed in the NFL, not Miami fans that had a reason to want to see him fail in the NFL.
This is exactly what we're seeing here, exactly.
It also explains fully why he's taken so many sacks, 28 in 10 games, which are Bledsoe-like sack numbers. Why, for a QB that's supposed to be so mobile. Fitzpatrick in his worst 16-game season had only 30 sacks, only two more in 6 more games.
In addressing the coaching concerns, it's pretty laughable that Jimbo Fisher's staff couldn't do much with Manuel but that Marrone and Hackett would be able to do something with him. Seriously, it's laughable.
Maybe it had something to do with better play calling, the line giving protection and receivers getting open. John Murphy said that Mark Kelso told him that after watching tape that the receivers were not getting open earlier in the game. But none of that could be true, because it makes more sense that EJ, "who can't hit the broad side of a barn", all of a sudden is able to connect on 10 of 10 because there's different players in the game.
You can't have it both ways: saing EJ is good and the WR are good but somehow the two can't connect.
Problem is that an open WR vs 1st stringers in NFL looks a lot different than an open WR vs 2nd stringers. EJ has to learn to 'throw his WR open' and give them opportunities to make plays by trusting them.
Problem us that this requires pin-point accuracy which EJ lacks- and when he does try it, athletic defenders cut the routs & intercept his passes.
You can't have it both ways: saing EJ is good and the WR are good but somehow the two can't connect.
Problem is that an open WR vs 1st stringers in NFL looks a lot different than an open WR vs 2nd stringers. EJ has to learn to 'throw his WR open' and give them opportunities to make plays by trusting them.
Problem us that this requires pin-point accuracy which EJ lacks- and when he does try it, athletic defenders cut the routs & intercept his passes.
I have said the exact same thing, he had a problem last season of not delivering the ball until the receiver came open. People mistake my defending him as me saying I think he's going to be great. All I know for sure is that he's had less than 10 games under his belt and that's not a lot of time.
The kind of things that I do dispute are things like where you say that "athletic defenders cut the route& intercept his passes", Is this really true ? Without going back and trying to find his picks from last season, I would guess that may have been the case in 2-3 of his ints last season. I do know in his worst performance against Tampa, it was the case on 1 of the 4 int's, 2 others went off receivers hands and 1 was an overthrow (which happened to be trapped). In fact before the Tampa game he had 9 TD's to 4 ints.
He'll never be a Manning or Brady, but how many QB's are, he's a young kid with talent that is learning. Coming out he was labeled a project, not a superstar ready to take over the league, I'm willing to give it more than 9 1/2 regular season and a few preseason games.
I have said the exact same thing, he had a problem last season of not delivering the ball until the receiver came open. People mistake my defending him as me saying I think he's going to be great. All I know for sure is that he's had less than 10 games under his belt and that's not a lot of time.
The kind of things that I do dispute are things like where you say that "athletic defenders cut the route& intercept his passes", Is this really true ? Without going back and trying to find his picks from last season, I would guess that may have been the case in 2-3 of his ints last season. I do know in his worst performance against Tampa, it was the case on 1 of the 4 int's, 2 others went off receivers hands and 1 was an overthrow (which happened to be trapped). In fact before the Tampa game he had 9 TD's to 4 ints.
He'll never be a Manning or Brady, but how many QB's are, he's a young kid with talent that is learning. Coming out he was labeled a project, not a superstar ready to take over the league, I'm willing to give it more than 9 1/2 regular season and a few preseason games.
Tweet
Originally Posted by pmoon6 
Comment