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All: The new Billszone site with the updated software is scheduled to be turned on Tuesday, May 21, 2024. The company that built it, Dynascale, estimates a FOUR HOUR shut down, from 8pm Pacific, (5pm Eastern) while they get it up and running. Nobody will be able to post in any forum until they are done. Afterwards, you may need to do a web search for the site, as old links will not work, because the site is getting a new IP address. Please be patient. If there are bugs, we will tackle them one at a time. Remember the goal is to be up and running with no glitches by camp. Doing this now assures us of that, because it gives us all summer to get our ducks in a row. Thank you!
There is work to be done and things to be learned. We are going to try to get the old look back - or something close to it. We also know there are bugs. A thread will be started to report bugs and then we can pass those onto the host.
Thank you for all the patience and support with this - hopefully this will greatly reduce the crashes and other site issues we have had lately.
Please use this thread to report any issues you come across
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/forum/feedback-forums/billszone-q-a/6521455-upgrade-report-bugs-here
Unfortunately EJ was a big mistake. I like the guy as a person but he's not an NFL caliber QB. Any veteran QB would be better than him. If its Orton, then so be it. Worry about the long term down the road. We really had no choice. I'm all onboard with Orton.
Brandon was ralph's smithers. he is weaselly and gets too much credit for marketing genius. Selling a game to a different city isn't good business and it didn't even work. and he still renewed it. he said he was going to leave no stop unturned and they went marrone very quickly. Other teams looking for a coach at the time were the eagles, cardinals, bears, chiefs and chargers. All teams with better outlooks long term than us.
Only the the browns (rob chudzinski) and jags (gus bradley) are in worse shape than us. Honestly how does that ineptitude not fall on brandon when he said he was going to fix it. Five other teams can get it right? we can't? and we had the blankest slate of all those teams at the QB position. it was up to the GM and the president to put a coach in a position to succeed and they didn't. and they want to say other people didn't get it right?
That is why this team will always be terrible with brandon. he makes big mistakes, blames others, fires them, and then repeats his mistakes. why would competent people want to be on the one team that operates completely different from the other 31. it makes no sense.
Look back, what other options did the Bills have at fixing the QB position? I guess you could argue we could have taken the path the Tampa Bay Bucs took but I don't see their situation that much better than ours. Also I think you forgot to mention the Raiders as worse run organizations.
it isn't clear as to how much of an input Russ had in personnel decisions in the past . But since he was on the team, might as well blame him for Maybin, Losman, Jauron, Fitz, Gailey,etc. If the bills fail based on who he hired and kept since becoming Pres/CEO he should get the blame, but if the team succeeds, he should not get credit.
i know you love this angle that a senior manager just sat around and watched everyone else run their job. brandon was defacto owner during the end of ralph. let's not even saddle brandon with jauron years. but when he was the prominent face trying to find a coach and GM, he trotted out buddy nix. He trotted out gailey. retreads that no one liked as a choice. he was more than vocal about how much he liked trading for watkins. he spoke loudly about how he supported his GM picking EJ. He's stressed continuity just like his mentor. He said "no stone left unturned" and we got the 6th best option of the 8 coaches replaced that year.
true, we don't know how much input he has, but he didn't stop any of these mistakes as the CEO. That's what the position is about. Donahoe had better success in a shorter time and simply missed getting a qb. he got cut. Why is brandon so untouchable? and why would anyone defend him?
I didn't "applaud the Bills." I merely stated a fact. The Bills are leading the division...it's a three-way tie record-wise, but they would win the tiebreaker at this time. Point in fact.
And we didn't win either of the first two games because of EJ Manuel. We certainly lost to the Texans because of him, no matter what anybody says. Played terribly against the Chargers as well.
Please do not bring Aaron Rodgers into this. That would be ridiculous.
The guy hasn't earned the right to start on this team right now, that's for sure. He had zero competition after Kolb went down before the season started last year. Freakin' Thad Lewis played just as well if not better when he was in there. Now Manuel has competition, and he lost...he lost fair and square and has nobody to blame but himself. Anybody that has been watching the Bills games this year with their eyes open can see that. We certainly don't owe him an unconditional chance to develop no matter how poorly he plays.
We owe it to the long term status of the franchise to see what he has is my argument. I agree he's been horrible the last two games. Yet I've seen what I deem worse QB play by other NFL QBs and they don't get benched. Time will tell how good/bad this decision is. As a fan that wants to see this team become an above average team year after year and am not sure that helps if think Orton is going to turn around this team this year only.
Look back, what other options did the Bills have at fixing the QB position? I guess you could argue we could have taken the path the Tampa Bay Bucs took but I don't see their situation that much better than ours. Also I think you forgot to mention the Raiders as worse run organizations.
oakland kind of stands on an island. we are the island next door. it's just that they made us so irrelevant at 7-9/6-10 most fans of the NFL don't care about us. Oakland is enjoyably bad. oh, and they were in the superbowl this millennium.
I think our QB situation is a result of several bad decisions. all of which brandon has overseen. until you have a top 5 qb, you should be drafting qb's routinely. but the bills see mediocre play and the settle on the journeyman. that's consistently happened. i bet you with brandon that if orton is .500, they'll avoid drafting a qb again and tell us, oh, it's fine. we just need a couple more pieces elsewhere.
i know you love this angle that a senior manager just sat around and watched everyone else run their job. brandon was defacto owner during the end of ralph. let's not even saddle brandon with jauron years. but when he was the prominent face trying to find a coach and GM, he trotted out buddy nix. He trotted out gailey. retreads that no one liked as a choice. he was more than vocal about how much he liked trading for watkins. he spoke loudly about how he supported his GM picking EJ. He's stressed continuity just like his mentor. He said "no stone left unturned" and we got the 6th best option of the 8 coaches replaced that year.
true, we don't know how much input he has, but he didn't stop any of these mistakes as the CEO. That's what the position is about. Donahoe had better success in a shorter time and simply missed getting a qb. he got cut. Why is brandon so untouchable? and why would anyone defend him?
Because Brandon doesn't alienate fans with comments and/or he's not thought as an outsider.
oakland kind of stands on an island. we are the island next door. it's just that they made us so irrelevant at 7-9/6-10 most fans of the NFL don't care about us. Oakland is enjoyably bad. oh, and they were in the superbowl this millennium.
I think our QB situation is a result of several bad decisions. all of which brandon has overseen. until you have a top 5 qb, you should be drafting qb's routinely. but the bills see mediocre play and the settle on the journeyman. that's consistently happened. i bet you with brandon that if orton is .500, they'll avoid drafting a qb again and tell us, oh, it's fine. we just need a couple more pieces elsewhere.
I'll agree with you that we've done horribly bad at the way we've approached the QB the last decade. My biggest concern is that this feels like another knee jerk situation and/or a band aid on a cut that is so much deeper that Orton alone can't heal. Manuel might have been as long as the rest of the team improved with him. As this feels like RJ losing his job to Flutie, Edwards losing his job to Fitzpatrick all over again.
What annoys me with this whole thing is that more wasn't done last season in signing a solid vet for Ej to sit and develop behind. And I feel like that move happened much to late this season, whuch may be why Marrone blew up on Whaley. By the time a vet for Ej to learn from was signed, it was too late to go back to grooming him. Hopefully he can still develop and not be a total lost cause.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
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"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
totally agree that what we are seeing is just a stop gap, and because they didn't have any better answers and were all in on EJ, they've made this bed. And the answer going foward is no first round pick next year and limited options to get the team to be better. that is on management. i can't imagine a rookie first time HC was making calls on QBs in his first draft when there is practically tenured GM and CEO on the team.
If you are the CEO and you don't have control over any of these decisions, you aren't a good CEO. and for every position on every team that gets judged by results, brandon has shown he isn't a good CEO for fans. he's good at gaming the expenses to provide the bare minimum to get seats filled in the first half and take a nice salary for himself, the trust, and the other senior execs like littman.
it's time for the team to have a CEO who thinks winning will generate revenue, generate interest, and generate a championship. it's a lot more risk in that approach, but it is the purpose of playing the games. not praying that maybe this time we'll not suck as much as last year.
What annoys me with this whole thing is that more wasn't done last season in signing a solid vet for Ej to sit and develop behind. And I feel like that move happened much to late this season, whuch may be why Marrone blew up on Whaley. By the time a vet for Ej to learn from was signed, it was too late to go back to grooming him. Hopefully he can still develop and not be a total lost cause.
Having said that I think that Orton's probably better than Kolb.
(Moderator) My name's Max Yasgur, and I approve of this post.
Originally Posted by pmoon6
The idea that you "won't settle" presumes that you have some kind of control. Delusional thinking at best for a supposed fan of a spectators' sport. Your way to deal with it is to constantly ***** and denigrate any move, any result concerning the team even if it's positive because you don't want your whittle feewings hurt again. It's a protection mechanism.
You shroud your childish approach in a vale of pompous, intellectual garbage in an attempt to look smart and "real". You over-analyze even minute points and manipulate statistics to fit your negative view of the team. Again, to feel good about yourself and to protect from getting hurt.
Of course, the criticisms are obviously from someone who has no understanding of the team concept or what it takes to excel at athletics.
The true "realist" understands that they have no control of what happens on the field or behind the closed doors at One Bills' Drive, so they do the prudent thing for a spectator. They enjoy the games on Sunday with family and friends, cheer for their team and realize that it's just entertainment.
------
"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."
"We are committed. I want you to believe me when I say that," Whaley said of building around the second-year quarterback, per The Buffalo News. "I always tell you guys that I'll never say never because I don't want to paint myself in a corner, but when I do say something, I do it and I mean it and I try to fulfill it."
"We believe the addition of Sammy is going to be instant impact, not only to our quarterback, but to what our offensive coordinator can come up with game-plan wise and how defenses attack us," Whaley said.
Whaley on EJ Manuel: "We think we got a gem in this guy." (2:30)
"And as Mark says, if in three years maybe he's not [our quarterback of the future], then I'll be sitting there saying 'hey guys', .... anybody got a job for me?" - Doug Whaley
he trotted out buddy nix. He trotted out gailey. retreads that no one liked as a choice.
so? was the final say his? He had the final say a couple of years ago and having the FINAL say, he didn't grab a retread. BTW, Jauron was Levy's pick. FACT! What now?
true, we don't know how much input he has, but he didn't stop any of these mistakes as the CEO.
he's only had the final say a couple of years. He didn't have power to stop Donohoe in hiring GW and Mualrkey. He didn't hvae ower to stop Levy from hiring Jauron .
I neither hate nor like Russ from a personnel decision making standpoint because I don't know. IN terms of marketing the team , he was great.
You created the thread and pointed fingers at Russ in personnel decisions. All I am asking is that if you create blame, show us the proof.
no I don't. But show me any proof other than your OPINION.
so? was the final say his? He had the final say a couple of years ago and having the FINAL say, he didn't grab a retread. BTW, Jauron was Levy's pick. FACT! What now?
he's only had the final say a couple of years. He didn't have power to stop Donohoe in hiring GW and Mualrkey. He didn't hvae ower to stop Levy from hiring Jauron .
I neither hate nor like Russ from a personnel decision making standpoint because I don't know. IN terms of marketing the team , he was great.
You created the thread and pointed fingers at Russ in personnel decisions. All I am asking is that if you create blame, show us the proof.
There is no smoking gun of proof that will make you agree. at the end of the day, he continues to get promoted to the highest postion as CEO in the NFL. He's nicely marketed himself away from the poor decisions and tried to be "the decision maker" when the time comes.
This coaching change alone he took it on himself to leave no stone unturned. he is oking the transition from nix to whaley. he allows the GM to take EJ, he lets him trade away a 1st round pick. as a leader and CEO, he can stop that. he is fine with whaley talking publically that the goal was to make the playoffs.
he either has no control on the team whatso ever, or he was part of it. either way, that's not much of a CEO....in any industry.
show me proof that he was a great marketer. the bills sold out in the 90's with a weak US economy and a very weak buffalo economy. they did that was an 80,000 seat stadium. today they need the games to be scheduled early in a 67,000 seat stadium. he sold games to another town for two contracts.
winning sells football. the town itself has a football problem. we come for whatever. he merely took advantage of that to provide his boss low expenses and the same revenue.
There is no smoking gun of proof that will make you agree. at the end of the day, he continues to get promoted to the highest postion as CEO in the NFL. He's nicely marketed himself away from the poor decisions and tried to be "the decision maker" when the time comes.
This coaching change alone he took it on himself to leave no stone unturned. he is oking the transition from nix to whaley. he allows the GM to take EJ, he lets him trade away a 1st round pick. as a leader and CEO, he can stop that. he is fine with whaley talking publically that the goal was to make the playoffs.
he either has no control on the team whatso ever, or he was part of it. either way, that's not much of a CEO....in any industry.
show me proof that he was a great marketer. the bills sold out in the 90's with a weak US economy and a very weak buffalo economy. they did that was an 80,000 seat stadium. today they need the games to be scheduled early in a 67,000 seat stadium. he sold games to another town for two contracts.
winning sells football. the town itself has a football problem. we come for whatever. he merely took advantage of that to provide his boss low expenses and the same revenue.
Post of the day. Brandon is as much, or more of the problem, than anyone at OBD.
Polian was never scared to confront Wilson. Brandon felt lucky to be in this job and was never going to challenge the Wilsons because no other team would hire this talentless "yes" man.
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Originally Posted by pmoon6 
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