Say what you will about my boy Orton...

[Strongman]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

I like Orton. We could do a lot worse than him. He's a little better than the average starting NFL quarterback. KO will win a couple more games for us than Fitzpatrick did and quite a few more than EJ would at this point in his development. I also like the fact that EJ is now in a better position where he can learn and develop. I think getting ready for the next opponent while trying to learn the position was detrimental to his development. EJ strikes me as a more cerebral type of QB who can learn from watching instead of the kind who performs better when under pressure.

[Fletch]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

Orton kinda reminds me of Dennis Shaw out there.

When he scrambles, he looks like he has a load in his diaper, but he can get the ball there, and fit it into a small space.

Kind of like a Billy Kilmer, or a Bob Griese. Good field general.

I like him.

That's funny.

We've gotta start scoring more points though. I'm trying to figure out why with better QB play we're not scoring more. Fine, Detroit had a good D, but Minnesota's was not good and neither was NE's, both games were home games.

The fact is that the team is presently scoring fewer points than it was with Manuel in there. Orton's clearly better, so why can't the O generate more points?

I ask seriously, I don't see any reasons why that's the case.

[Dr. Lecter]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

I'm not arguing that he has not regressed. I'm merely pointing out that he has made that comeback more than never out of 100 times

[Fletch]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

If it is about WINNING, a last second win in the manor the Bills won that game was 99% luck.

I think EJ could have played at least as well as Orton did that entire game until the final game winning drive.

STUPID is anyone thinking Orton is anything more than a mediocre QB.

10 points at home until the final seconds of the game against the Vikings defense is PATHETIC.

With the talent on the Bills offense, to score less than 20 points a game is PATHETIC.

Can you possibly betray yourself anymore than you already have over the months?

I agree with you on all of your points except for the first two. That last drive was not all luck. It was a great drive. BUT, we shouldn't have even been in that spot, at home, against that ****ty Vikes team, if we're half as good as everyone's been saying here. The Vikes suck, may be the worst team in the league with Bridgewater starting and Peterson gone.

EJ can't play better than Orton has been, I mean it's almost as if you've not watched either QB play when you make statements like that.

I agree that Orton is mediocre to average on a good day, but EJ's not even mediocre. He sucks.

16 points total to that Vikes team, at home, is pathetic if we really have anything even approaching an elite D like has been crammed down our throats by the know-it-alls here constantly. Only now are those brainiacs backing off.

Also agree that with the talent we have on O, against the Vike, at home, we should have easily been able to put up 20 or more points without having to resort to last second/last play antics.

[Ed]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

I don't like all the sacks he's taking since that will just lead to more turnovers, but I would put a lot of that on the O-line. They really need to step up because Orton is just not athletic enough to deal with or escape bad protection.

The turnovers and sacks are frustrating, but I still have to give Orton a ton of credit for playing a lot better than I thought he would. He's currently 3rd in the league in completion pct. and 5th in yards/game. It's only three games, but considering he didn't have any preseason to practice and prepare with the team it's still impressive.

[Fletch]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

The turnovers and sacks are frustrating, but I still have to give Orton a ton of credit for playing a lot better than I thought he would. He's currently 3rd in the league in completion pct. and 5th in yards/game. It's only three games, but considering he didn't have any preseason to practice and prepare with the team it's still impressive.

How Orton's playing aside, why are we scoring less with him in there than with EJ in there?

Again, not saying put EJ back in at all, I would prefer it if they released Manuel today, but still, where at the points?

I just looked, over the last three games we're ranked 23rd in scoring.

[Figster]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

I don't like all the sacks he's taking since that will just lead to more turnovers, but I would put a lot of that on the O-line. They really need to step up because Orton is just not athletic enough to deal with or escape bad protection.

The turnovers and sacks are frustrating, but I still have to give Orton a ton of credit for playing a lot better than I thought he would. He's currently 3rd in the league in completion pct. and 5th in yards/game. It's only three games, but considering he didn't have any preseason to practice and prepare with the team it's still impressive.

A rusty Kyle Orton I might add,

[justasportsfan]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

I don't think he's neither good nor bad. I'm just glad he throws the ball and gives his receivers a chance to make a plays.

[better days]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

Can you possibly betray yourself anymore than you already have over the months?

I agree with you on all of your points except for the first two. That last drive was not all luck. It was a great drive. BUT, we shouldn't have even been in that spot, at home, against that ****ty Vikes team, if we're half as good as everyone's been saying here. The Vikes suck, may be the worst team in the league with Bridgewater starting and Peterson gone.

EJ can't play better than Orton has been, I mean it's almost as if you've not watched either QB play when you make statements like that.

I agree that Orton is mediocre to average on a good day, but EJ's not even mediocre. He sucks.

16 points total to that Vikes team, at home, is pathetic if we really have anything even approaching an elite D like has been crammed down our throats by the know-it-alls here constantly. Only now are those brainiacs backing off.

Also agree that with the talent we have on O, against the Vike, at home, we should have easily been able to put up 20 or more points without having to resort to last second/last play antics.

I agree the final drive was great, but you are CRAZY if you don't think LUCK was a BIG part of that drive being successful.

You said yourself that EJ has put up more points than Orton has so I disagree that EJ can not play as well as Orton.

If EJ had played against the Vikings, for all we know the Bills might have been up by 20 points going into the 4th qtr.

I think at this point Orton is better than EJ, but not by a whole lot.

And I don't betray myself, but I do change my mind at times.

It is just stupid to continue to support people or things after it is shown you were wrong for doing so.

And when I am proven wrong, I am man enough to admit it.

[justasportsfan]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

You said yourself that EJ has put up more points than Orton has so I disagree that EJ can not play as well as Orton.

meh, EJ would run out of bounds short of the 1st down on many of the throws that Orton made.

[WagonCircler]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

It was not a horrible grounding call. Glenn was beat and he threw the ball where there was no receiver. Certainly the receive might have ran the wrong route, but the call was fine.

And while I won't say EJ is better, I think the Carolina Panthers would disagree that EJ would never make that last drive happen.

So would anybody that watched that game

The receiver broke to the right instead of breaking to the left. The play was on in which Orton throws to a spot. He makes that exact throw at that exact second whether he's pressured or not.

The root word of "Intentional Grounding" is INTENT.

It was not his intent to ground the ball to avoid a sack, which is what the penalty is for. It was his intent to throw to a spot, which he did.

[WagonCircler]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

I'm not arguing that he has not regressed. I'm merely pointing out that he has made that comeback more than never out of 100 times

Horsecrap. That drive entailed overcoming 4th and 19 and overcoming penalty calls and, most importantly, it involved making precise throws under severe pressure.

The point isn't whether or not he has led a two minute drive. The point is, if you put EJ out there in THAT game under those condition in that situation, Bills lose 100 times out of 100.

[Dr. Lecter]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

The receiver broke to the right instead of breaking to the left. The play was on in which Orton throws to a spot. He makes that exact throw at that exact second whether he's pressured or not.

The root word of "Intentional Grounding" is INTENT.

It was not his intent to ground the ball to avoid a sack, which is what the penalty is for. It was his intent to throw to a spot, which he did.

I know it's about intent.

But it is not up to the ref to decide if the receiver ran the wrong route or not.

[better days]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

Horsecrap. That drive entailed overcoming 4th and 19 and overcoming penalty calls and, most importantly, it involved making precise throws under severe pressure.

The point isn't whether or not he has led a two minute drive. The point is, if you put EJ out there in THAT game under those condition in that situation, Bills lose 100 times out of 100.

The point is if EJ had been the QB in that game against the Vikings, the Bills might have won in a blow out.

And EJ has won games as a Bill when the Bills were behind late in the game.

[notacon]

Re: Say what you will about my boy Orton...

And right on cue, the sour grapes come out.

You're not a Bills fan. You're an EJ fan. Get lost.

No sour grapes. Just clear eyed truth.

Orton sucks. EJ sucks. The only hope this team has is that after this year, and we end up with a 5-10 record, Pagula totally clans house. GM, coaches and players. Start from scratch.

Get a real football guy in here, and do whatever it takes to draft a real honest to goodness prospect. And then draft another.

You guys are dreamers.

I'll be reminding you all of this truth when we finish they year with NE kicking our ass with all their starters resting.