Should The Patriots Be Disqualified From The Super Bowl?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What's the exact wording in the rule book about this?

I posted a link to the rulebook a page or so back. There is more information in the Game Operations Manual, but I haven't found that posted online.

[CommissarSpartacus]

The rules state what the pressure is supposed to be during the game.

Are you sure this is what they state?

It seems the balls are required to be a certain pressure when they are last checked before they are sequestered.

If the balls are required to be a certain pressure DURING the game, then they should be checked immediately after. like jockeys or F1 drivers.

Are they?

Or is this the first time in the history of the NFL that it's become an issue?

[better days]

Are you sure this is what they state?

It seems the balls are required to be a certain pressure when they are last checked before they are sequestered.

If the balls are required to be a certain pressure DURING the game, then they should be checked immediately after. like jockeys or F1 drivers.

Are they?

Or is this the first time in the history of the NFL that it's become an issue?

Well, this is the first time it became an issue because it is the first time a team was caught CHEATING by letting air out of the ball.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well, this is the first time it became an issue because it is the first time a team was caught CHEATING by letting air out of the ball.

They haven't been "caught" doing anything other than kicking the crap out of the Colts.

They have only been ACCUSED of something.

Let me ask a question - if Tom does this all the time and it's SOOOOO noticeable, how come it's taken over a do2en years and at least 200 games for SOMEONE TO ****ING NOTICE?

[better days]

They haven't been "caught" doing anything other than kicking the crap out of the Colts.

They have only been ACCUSED of something.

Let me ask a question - if Tom does this all the time and it's SOOOOO noticeable, how come it's taken over a do2en years and at least 200 games for SOMEONE TO ****ING NOTICE?

NO, 11 of 12 balls were found to be DEFLATED.

ONLY people associated with the CHEATERS had access to those balls.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Are you sure this is what they state?

I posted the rule itself and a link to the full rulebook.

It seems the balls are required to be a certain pressure when they are last checked before they are sequestered.

If the balls are required to be a certain pressure DURING the game, then they should be checked immediately after. like jockeys or F1 drivers.

They probably should have been, but it was another loophole in the oversight that the Patriots exploited.

Let me ask a question - if Tom does this all the time and it's SOOOOO noticeable, how come it's taken over a do2en years and at least 200 games for SOMEONE TO ****ING NOTICE?

No one said he's been doing it his entire career. If anything, its more likely he'd only need to do this later in his career when he aged.

Also, as has been noted, only the Patriots handle the footballs at any length after the test. The opposing team uses its own footballs. Indeed, the one who noticed on the Colts was the equipment manager, who only got to handle the ball after DQwell Jackson handed it to him following an INT.

[Bill Cody]

NO, 11 of 12 balls were found to be DEFLATED.

ONLY people associated with the CHEATERS had access to those balls.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/...w0YH?ocid=iehp

I'm not so sure about this. People can hate Brady, hate Bellichick all they want but most don't assume them to be stupid. Having a ball boy unzip a bag and let air out of 2 dozen balls in front of 70,000 people and over 30 cameras strikes me as about as risky as a bank robbery. Sorry but I'm not a lemming and I don't buy it. The reward is small and the risk is off the charts. Personally I think they presented a bunch of balls that were low to some degree to the ref and the ref may have used a gauge on a few, felt the rest and threw them in the bag. And the NFL is complicit in this problem. As John Riggins said the other day "if the pressure is so important why does the league not secure the balls after inspection?"

[notacon]

It's like you guys have never held a football in your hands.

First, the physics of heated and cooled air.

What happens to the inflation level of your tires in the winter? Cold air gets denser, so if you inlate the ball in a 75 degree room, then have them outside in 50 degree weather, what's going to happen to them? Guess what?

Second, footballs are a leather sac that's inflated with a steel hypodermic through a rubber ring in the surface. There is no cork or cap, just the rubber pressed together. Now, if a ton of flesh repeatedly lands on the ball, compressing it, guess what's gonna happen? Air gets expelled through the rubber ring.

If the Pats set the hot air inflation levels (and I believe there is no rule about filling the balls with hot air) at bare minimum when the balls are sequestered, it's only reasonable that the balls, after cooling down and being used all game would test lower than the minimum. But there is no rule stating how much air the ball has in it after the game, just before the game.

I have no doubt that Brady gives instructions to fill the balls with hot air to the minim,um pressure before the game. It's called preparation.

And just because the Pats balls were found under pressure AFTER the game does not in any way prove they were doctored.

The NFL has only themselves to blame for this. If they think it's a concern, they can easily install procedures.

But bringing this up NOW, after the balls had 2ERO to do with the Colts getting thrashed just indicates how much Roger Goodell hates the Patriots and wants to shift the blame for a disastrous season, corporation-wise, on to the Patriots.

Spygate was battle between Goodell and the Patriots, who felt that the NFL, in putting in a no taping rule after Eric Mangini went to Goodell and complained, was conducting a vendetta against the club, so they DELIBERATELY BAITED Goodelll into making it an issue, and even though they were fined (they could care less), they shoved a perfect season into Goodell's face.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a setup by Goodell and he knew all along they planned to pull this on the Patriots.

Goodell gets his revenge by poisoning a possible Patriots Superbowl victory.

Of course you guys all WANT the Patriots to be guilty of something so stupid and buy into it right away because you hate the Patriots.

This is the essence of truthiness. It may not be true but it FEELS like it should be true, so let's all believe it....

Well...your premise about "cold air gets denser" and balls having "no cork or cap"...etc...etc... is all wrong.

The Deflategate Rundown

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:

• The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

• All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human

Yes, I believe that Peter King has much better connections in the league than you or anyone else here, and I bet a dime to a dollar you do not personally know nor have you talked to one NFL player, official or league employee....ever. Nor do they know you. Peter King talks to all of them, and is known on a first name basis throughout the NFL.

The idea that the Pats did not "cheat" is without question. They cheated. Period.

You can go around in circles all you want saying that it didn't matter and all your other suppositions and guess as to what Goodell is thinking and who hates the Pats....

It's all bull****, and you know it.

If one team does not play according to the rules, especially with something as important as how the most important object ON the field performs...it matters....A LOT!!!

No one will ever be able to determine the degree of difference this difference in balls makes. It could be HUGE and it could be minimal.

But, THAT'S THE POINT. Rules ensure that the game is competed with the quality of play, not the difference equipment.

Every single Pats victory is now in question. It's a simple question.

Did the Pats win "fair and square"??? The undeniable answer is NO!

[notacon]

Oh....this whole problem is the result of the NFL lax ball handling procedures.

This will unquestionably be changed after this systematic cheating by the Pats (maybe more teams...but, I doubt it) has been uncovered.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well...your premise about "cold air gets denser" and balls having "no cork or cap"...etc...etc... is all wrong.

The Deflategate Rundown

PETER KING is your "expert"? How does being a draftboard guru make him a ****ing expert on this?

Let's deconstruct what he says, okay?

This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated.

Anyone that starts an argument by pimping it's "significance" up front and announcing his conclusion before he staes his case is gilding the lily. Pete's bias is showing...

I am told reliably that:

I'm sure you are. By NFL sources, right? This means Pete has been chosen to get the message out...

The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

And I'm sure that all the Pats balls were at 12.5 exactly. Cheaters!

All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

Which means the Indy balls could have come out at 13.5, lost a pound and still be fine.

The Pats balls lost a pound like Indy's balls plus another pound as the balls cooled.

All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure

Of course they were. They were filled to the same pressure, not a pound different and both with ambient air.

—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours.

And thus this conclusion is 100% wrong...

There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

No, it doesn't, as I have shown.

This is all just sour grapes bull****.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human

My conclusion? Pete WANTS the Pats to be guilty. So do you, as exhibited shamefully in the rest of your post, which is just drama queen haterism.

[harmonkoz]

PETER KING is your "expert"? How does being a draftboard guru make him a ****ing expert on this?
Let's deconstruct what he says, okay?
Anyone that starts an argument by pimping it's "significance" up front and announcing his conclusion before he staes his case is gilding the lily. Pete's bias is showing...
...This is all just sour grapes bull****...
...My conclusion? Pete WANTS the Pats to be guilty. So do you, as exhibited shamefully in the rest of your post, which is just drama queen haterism.

I am pretty sure Pete is a Patriots fan, he is from Springfield Mass... Additionally, he has been riding on Belecheats jock for a decade.
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/9/3...fan-once-again

[sudzy]

PETER KING is your "expert"? How does being a draftboard guru make him a ****ing expert on this?

Let's deconstruct what he says, okay?

Anyone that starts an argument by pimping it's "significance" up front and announcing his conclusion before he staes his case is gilding the lily. Pete's bias is showing...
I'm sure you are. By NFL sources, right? This means Pete has been chosen to get the message out...
And I'm sure that all the Pats balls were at 12.5 exactly. Cheaters!
Which means the Indy balls could have come out at 13.5, lost a pound and still be fine.
The Pats balls lost a pound like Indy's balls plus another pound as the balls cooled.
Of course they were. They were filled to the same pressure, not a pound different and both with ambient air.
And thus this conclusion is 100% wrong...
No, it doesn't, as I have shown.
This is all just sour grapes bull****.
My conclusion? Pete WANTS the Pats to be guilty. So do you, as exhibited shamefully in the rest of your post, which is just drama queen haterism.

No wonder you hated the Rex hire so much. Your a Pats fan. If I was a Pats fan I would have hated it too.

[Meathead]

why are we still on this crazy thing about somebody deflating the balls? its already been shown that all they have to do is fill them in the sauna. a little experimentation and you could probably predict exact pressure by gametime depending on outside temperature

the fumble stats are the smoking gun. you couldnt get that big of a fumble advantage if you threatened your players with instant death if they lost the ball. they obviously knew exactly what they were doing

[better days]

After the Super Bowl is played, the NFL will tell us all the findings of the investigation.

You can bet your ass a new rule will be in place next year in regards to the football.

Remains to be seen how much or little the Pats* are punished but IMO, Brady & Belicheck should both be suspended next season.

[notacon]

PETER KING is your "expert"? How does being a draftboard guru make him a ****ing expert on this?

Let's deconstruct what he says, okay?

Well...right off the bat you misrepresent what I wrote. Where did I say that Peter King was my "expert" and why are you putting that word in quotation marks that is used to indicate what anther poster is being quoted directly?

What I said is (and THIS is a direct quote) "I believe that Peter King has much better connections in the league than you or anyone else here, and I bet a dime to a dollar you do not personally know nor have you talked to one NFL player, official or league employee....ever. Nor do they know you. Peter King talks to all of them, and is known on a first name basis throughout the NFL."

THAT is why I link to what he writes.

Anyone that starts an argument by pimping it's "significance" up front and announcing his conclusion before he staes his case is gilding the lily. Pete's bias is showing...

Nonsense. I have read Peter King for quite some time, and he is easily the most credible sports writer in the country with the very best connections. He is ruthlessly honest, and regularly goes back and shows when he wrote something in the past that was wrong. A trait you would be wise to mimmic.

Mr. King starts out his "argument" (it really is not an "argument"...that is your word...it is reporting facts, saying that "this is significant" because IT IS SIGNIFICANT!! And he goes on to explain WHY the facts are "significant"...because "it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated."

In fact, the reason that you have to pre-empt the factual reporting of King is because the facts show that your theory was wrong.

I'm sure you are. By NFL sources, right? This means Pete has been chosen to get the message out...

Again, if you have better sources, we would all love to hear them. Now you are just blustering because you have nothing, except stuff that you pulled out of your ass.

And I'm sure that all the Pats balls were at 12.5 exactly. Cheaters!

You just can't accept the truth and facts simply because they go against your faulty premise, huh. Be a man for once and admit you were, and are wrong.

Yes, the Pats cheated.

Which means the Indy balls could have come out at 13.5, lost a pound and still be fine.

The Pats balls lost a pound like Indy's balls plus another pound as the balls cooled.

The rules are quite clear. The Pats broke them, which makes them cheaters, and the Colts did not.

Of course they were. They were filled to the same pressure, not a pound different and both with ambient air.

And thus this conclusion is 100% wrong...

No....you are 100% wrong.

No, it doesn't, as I have shown.

This is all just sour grapes bull****.

No, you have not shown anything except your usual annoying habit of refusing to admit you are wrong even when all the evidence shows you were wrong. So...refuse to admit you were, and are wrong...I don't care. You were still wrong.

The only one suffering from "sour grapes bull****" is you.

My conclusion? Pete WANTS the Pats to be guilty. So do you, as exhibited shamefully in the rest of your post, which is just drama queen haterism.

This is the silliest premise of all. Goodell has a very close relationship with the Pats owner, Bob Kraft. It was Bob Kraft who came put strongly, in public, to defend Goodell when the Rice controversy hit. He was by his side in facing the press to defend him.

If anything, Goodell's motivation would be 180 degrees opposite.

Listen, if you want to defend the Pats for cheating, now and the last time they were caught stealing signs, that's your business. I criticize the Pats, not because they are the Pats, but because they have damaged the integrity of the game. I don't care what team was found to do this cheating, my message would be the same.

Your argument is nonsense.

[better days]

Well...right off the bat you misrepresent what I wrote. Where did I say that Peter King was my "expert" and why are you putting that word in quotation marks that is used to indicate what anther poster is being quoted directly?

What I said is (and THIS is a direct quote) "I believe that Peter King has much better connections in the league than you or anyone else here, and I bet a dime to a dollar you do not personally know nor have you talked to one NFL player, official or league employee....ever. Nor do they know you. Peter King talks to all of them, and is known on a first name basis throughout the NFL."

THAT is why I link to what he writes.



Nonsense. I have read Peter King for quite some time, and he is easily the most credible sports writer in the country with the very best connections. He is ruthlessly honest, and regularly goes back and shows when he wrote something in the past that was wrong. A trait you would be wise to mimmic.

Mr. King starts out his "argument" (it really is not an "argument"...that is your word...it is reporting facts, saying that "this is significant" because IT IS SIGNIFICANT!! And he goes on to explain WHY the facts are "significant"...because "it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated."

In fact, the reason that you have to pre-empt the factual reporting of King is because the facts show that your theory was wrong.




Again, if you have better sources, we would all love to hear them. Now you are just blustering because you have nothing, except stuff that you pulled out of your ass.



You just can't accept the truth and facts simply because they go against your faulty premise, huh. Be a man for once and admit you were, and are wrong.

Yes, the Pats cheated.



The rules are quite clear. The Pats broke them, which makes them cheaters, and the Colts did not.



No....you are 100% wrong.



No, you have not shown anything except your usual annoying habit of refusing to admit you are wrong even when all the evidence shows you were wrong. So...refuse to admit you were, and are wrong...I don't care. You were still wrong.

The only one suffering from "sour grapes bull****" is you.



This is the silliest premise of all. Goodell has a very close relationship with the Pats owner, Bob Kraft. It was Bob Kraft who came put strongly, in public, to defend Goodell when the Rice controversy hit. He was by his side in facing the press to defend him.

If anything, Goodell's motivation would be 180 degrees opposite.

Listen, if you want to defend the Pats for cheating, now and the last time they were caught stealing signs, that's your business. I criticize the Pats, not because they are the Pats, but because they have damaged the integrity of the game. I don't care what team was found to do this cheating, my message would be the same.

Your argument is nonsense.

And on WGR, someone debunked the heated air theory.

It would take over 30 hours to deflate the ball just ONE psi if the air was 115 degrees that inflated the ball.

[coastal]

Lmao... maybe the pats are left wingers and the whiners are all right wingers.

Btw Putin has Kraft's Super Bowl ring. Considering that Spartacus is Putin's chief internet apologist, it stands to reason where Sparty's loyalties lie.

something stinks and it isn't the bad air from deflated footballs.

[swiper]

Lmao... maybe the pats are left wingers and the whiners are all right wingers.

Btw Putin has Kraft's Super Bowl ring. Considering that Spartacus is Putin's chief internet apologist, it stands to reason where Sparty's loyalties lie.

something stinks and it isn't the bad air from deflated footballs.

I just let one fly. Pardon me.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I am pretty sure Pete is a Patriots fan, he is from Springfield Mass... Additionally, he has been riding on Belecheats jock for a decade.
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/9/3...fan-once-again

Okay, let's amend it.

YOU want the Pats to be guilty and Peter King lacks the guts to go against the howling mob by suggesting they may be wrong.

Guys like Peter King aren't fans of anything other than their bank accounts.

[chris66]

Okay, let's amend it.

YOU want the Pats to be guilty and Peter King lacks the guts to go against the howling mob by suggesting they may be wrong.

Guys like Peter King aren't fans of anything other than their bank accounts.

I dont know why you bother. These guys had their minds made up monday.

If the nfl exonerates the pats. They will still cry foul